Broken Timelines, Canon & Context is for Kings Review

Hello and welcome to Future Imperfect, I'm your

host Steve Phillips and in this episode I'll

be talking about Star Trek Discovery and the

Orville Yeah So yeah, it's been exactly a week

since the last episode and Well, I'm kind of

excited about a little bit of Star Trek Discovery,

but I'm kind of not and I'll get into that in

a few minutes, but I found myself increasingly

interested in the Orville as well. And... Surprisingly...

This is what I've come to for the last week.

Last week I felt like for the Orville I was watching

in parts... If you were to mix... Like... Star

Trek The Next Generation with maybe Agents of

S .H .I .E .L .D. at the beginning -ish. And

then if you watch Star Trek Discovery, I feel

like I'm watching... almost like Star Wars mixed

with Resident Evil. I know it's a really odd

combination for both of those, but just kind

of hang with me. What I mean by... for the Orville...

With the the agents of shield is it's got that

season one agents of shield vibe with the really

cheap When they were on the other planet more

or less However, I will say that I did enjoy

the fact that they went into this almost Dyson

sphere Genesis type planet Where the inhabitants

knew nothing about it and it looked almost like

a little bit of a voyager type of alien But I

found that the The series was really interesting

with that that particular episode and having

aspects of the crew getting captured and Overall

it was still a moral dilemma of Right and wrong

of controlling people and whatnot, but it was

it was basically a TNG episode now Discovery

having just watched this the episode in question

is context is for Kings and you get your first

taste of Captain Gabriel Lorca who picks up Michael

Burnham and a couple other ex -cons or convicts

and you end up with a lot of of like space dust

type stuff of where they're trying to say that

they can get to different points in the galaxy

by floating essentially I have no idea what kind

of crap they're trying to pull on this I'll wait

and make further judgment on this this floating

pixie dust from Disney after They get a little

bit further with it but a little bit of my concern

with that is They're saying that oh we could

get from point A to point B of the alpha quadrant,

or from this point of the beta quadrant to this

part of the beta quadrant, or alpha quadrant,

or whatever. The original series was primarily

focused on the beta quadrant. So, not exactly

sure where they're going with this. But they

show how you can almost instantaneously get somewhere,

which would be kind of transwarp technology.

And again, I'm I'm questioning how They're they're

creating this this special dust and I had a little

bit of Star Trek speak Which was kind of nice

with the science and the you know the the physics

and biology Of how they're not really separate,

but they're the same and kind of going down that

that rabbit hole Where it got a little bit interesting

was when they board this other ship the USS Glenn

which was Basically a duplicate of the discovery

floating adrift and there were Klingons on it

in this mysterious Kind of Like dog -like creature

that was on there and I thought to begin with

it was going to be something like the Torgs or

something from like the Klingon dogs But the

Klingons were massacred by this thing and because

of whatever they did in this ship Parts of it

were twisted and destroyed and so were the humans

and and yeah, the Klingons were just ripped to

shreds and I I felt like I was watching like

a weird mix between doom the movie and Resident

Evil mixed in on that the USS Glenn and it was

really disturbing and entirely too dark. I did

not Care for the graphical viewing that they

played on it. I know in the original series They

had some dark elements, but it wasn't like you

don't have to show it like I get like there You

know things are destroyed things are mangled

twisted ripped apart. There's no reason to Kind

of go down that rabbit hole of showing it That

aside I did like how Michael Burnham kind of

kicks into normal gear and kind of goes back

to being a Starfleet officer of following orders

and duty and kind of questioning the the ethics

of all of the crew on this mission and then you

get Lieutenant Commander Saru is now Commander

Saru and the first officer of the Discovery from

Georgiou's crew and you see a couple other people

that were left over from the Shenzhou on the

Discovery. Lorca insinuating that he's had his

eyes damaged from a recent battle. In order to

keep his own eyes, he has to do something with

the artificial lighting. I get a lot of this

vibe from Lorca. He's kind of like Admiral Marcus

from Star Trek Into Darkness. I get that same

vibe from the character. like he's he's pining

for this this battle and he's he's I have a feeling

he's gonna be the reason why the science vessel

becomes a battle station to create the the Klingon

virus that more or less makes them human if they're

gonna go that route I could see this this going

in that direction with him at the command just

because he's a really shady character and Not

everything says he's as it seems with him and

so I Was left with wanting more at the same time

there were there were aspects of this that kind

of didn't sit right with me with the the gruesome

of the dark and Whatnot overall it was a good

episode It's still not quite Star Trek to me

yet It's still very much like I'm watching a

Star Wars or a J .J. Abrams Star Trek thrown

into this. I still am not seeing what could possibly

be in the original series universe. Because one,

supposedly the Enterprise is floating about right

now with Captain Christopher Pike at the helm

and Lieutenant Spock. or Lieutenant Commander

Spock or whatever on the Enterprise. So I'm still

waiting to see where they go with this. I'm hoping

that they come up with some logical explanation

of why everything is the way it is and so advanced

and the Klingons unless there's like some kind

of a setback because of all this technology that

it maybe like spooks them. I'm not entirely sure

where they're going though. some of this technology

that they have in this show is way too advanced

to be the original series or the original timeline.

And that's another thing. There's been multiple

quotes floating around as far as this new series

is concerned. And one of them... Kind of comes

right out and says, you know, I like how CBS

decided to call STD the prime timeline, but only

as a marketing term, not to be confused with

the original timeline. The designers actually

wanted more TOS like uniforms, but CBS wanted

something completely original, which goes to

show me that it's not necessarily something that

Paramount's kind of pulling the strings. It's

kind of CBS. And it's a little off putting to

me that For as is in bound and canon as they

are Yeah, and that's kind of another thing like

they there have been cast members making this

claim that oh, it's the first time that uh There's

been a lead role in The As far as the first You

know black lead the series and I know that The

article says first black female lead but in the

the quote it does say that it's first black lead

which If that's the case, they're either stating

it erroneously or have no idea what they're talking

about because Benjamin Sisko And then you could

also argue that wharf was kind of a good lead

because he kind of turned into one later on in

the series But Ben Sisko was the first one that

was actually one of our key leads and then, you

know, you get Tuvok in Voyager. So, I mean, it's...

I don't know. There's a lot of back and forth

as far as differences in wording that this new

crew and this new Star Trekker is saying. Now,

I will say that it almost seems like they're

leveraging this whole CBS All Access as a new...

Method of showing, you know growth and subscribership

not necessarily trying to Build Star Trek, but

it's it's it's They're playing a numbers game.

It's not even they're just using Star Trek because

it's just the biggest property they have And

the oldest property they have to mess around

with so I'm not I'm not fond of CBS's actions

in this this whole thing. I'm not I don't trust

them I'm hoping that they can figure something

out by the next season of what they're gonna

do, but at the same time, I'm not impressed with

what they're doing graphically. Again, I think

there would be a lot less issue if they just

said it was the Calvin timeline or if they just

made this series take place decades after Picard

and Deep Space Nine and Voyager. and then they

could have still had cameos from the original

actors from those shows but at the same time

they could have they would have more leeway for

pulling in those actors plus they'd have more

leeway for messing with with canon because they

essentially wouldn't have to rewrite anything

or fit in this specific time span they could

they they they could just kind of create their

own thing and it's it wouldn't be as big of a

canon issue so I don't know what do you guys

think about this recent episode that kind of

aired I I mean you get more of a feeling of Burnham

you get more of a feeling of some of the other

characters they introduced you to a bunch of

new characters as well as some that made it over

from the Shenzhou but the you know one of the

things that's kind of digging at me is what they're

doing with with it in the canon in the graphics

it's Those are like the two biggest things aside

from the Klingons like that's my main issue But

yeah, it's I mean, I guess we'll see as the the

season progresses I'm not a huge fan of the show

though. Not yet. Anyway, I my tune may change

I'm still not a huge fan of Enterprise But there

were some good episodes in it. So I'm not denying

that there may be some good episodes This one

was probably one of the better ones in a in a

way but It felt more like we were we were playing

It feels like we're we're at Like, you know the

the first two episodes were like watching the

cage and This one is like watching where no man

has gone before So it's like almost like a second

pilot for the series So So yeah, there's those

aspects there's you know the You know, they had

the the premiere they had apparently eight million

watching on CBS Which is not a bad draw for their

8 .2 million on on that first Sunday night however

Comparing it to the other Star Trek series Enterprise

brought in 12 .5 million on this debut episode

and then 21 .3 on Voyager 15 on TNG and Yeah,

I don't know I'm not even sure what to think

as far as the The CBS all access because I would

be curious to know who Kept their CBS all access

I myself I cancelled it after seeing the third

episode and Yeah, I don't feel bad about it like

it's I wasn't gonna pay for it so I'll just have

to sign up for it under another card or something

like it's not It's not a real Reason for me to

subscribe to it and I hate saying that because

like I want to support track Even though I'm

hating on aspects of it. I don't want it to go

away and I I'm not Like I said, I'm happy that

there's something but I'm not happy that They're

doing it this way. So it's it's it's a double

-edged sword for me, but I still prefer the orville

over this I'm not gonna try and jump around that

aspect but I'm at least happy there is a series

so and they've they've also teased it you know

Spock's mom possibly showing up at some point

they've already named dropped her in this episode

which whoopity -freakin do like I mean I don't

see that as like a big spoiler or a big rumor

or you know It's not like it's it's like saying

oh Spock is gonna show up this episode or Captain

Pike and the Enterprise are gonna show up or

oh I don't know Captain Kirk like I Don't I mean

the cast the actress Mia Kirchner to play Amanda

Sarek or Amanda Grayson So it's not like it's

a big thing here The other thing is, and I found

this interesting, I've gotten this article from

numerous people, and this one's on Fan Film Factor,

and it has to do with Star Trek Discovery versus

Axanar, and it says, choose your Klingon war.

And you get to see your Klingon generals, and

of course, the ones in the Axanar aren't historically

accurate either. I mean, they have the Klingon

ridges, which Enterprise did, too. And it takes

place ten years before Kirk, as well. The other

thing of note is that their uniforms look like

they're from Star Trek 6, The Undiscovered Country,

with the red and that kind of thing. But... It's...

I don't know, it's more likeable? I'm gonna watch

the Axanar video, I think, for part of my commentary

in the next episode, and then I'm gonna compare

what I've seen so far of Discovery to Axanar.

And I think it'd be kind of a fun parallel to

do at the end of the season, just because we

would have more of that weight. In you know,

like I said, there are some things I like, you

know Burnham talking the brig and it mentions

that in the article like I don't think it would

be possible But you know again to each their

own But The show is just way too dark the show

is just way too dark and it's way too like clunky

with it So like it seems like it's trying so

hard to get out of its own way that it's killing

itself and I guess that's where the Orville kind

of succeeds at it is because it's not it's trying

to be Star Trek without trying to be Star Trek

but it's not it doesn't feel so weighted which

I'm again liking because I'm not There's so much

stuff that's downer in the world I don't really

want to watch it in my shows like if that makes

any sense like I want to have fun while I'm watching

and not sit here and I don't really want to be

terrified while I'm watching something. I don't

really want to watch something that's gory or

There was like one episode maybe two of TNG that

I felt was was on level with this as far as gore

and one of them was Genesis and the other one

was uh the conspiracy and that was with you know

the the crew turning into aliens on on uh regenerating

back to a previous life form in genesis and then

in the conspiracy there was the little creature

it went in the back of the neck and it was kind

of dark so i mean and i didn't care for either

one of those episodes either so this is kind

of for me aligned same boats But you know, I

almost wonder if the show would have been better

had they not redone how the Klingons looked,

or redesigned their ships, or redid the Starfleet

uniforms, or if they dated it and made it look

like it fit closer in this timeline of the original

series than it actually is, would it be better?

Like, would it be better than what Axanar is

portraying? Would it be better than what we're

getting now? I'm not saying they have to go like

all completely low -tech like the original series.

There could be an exception, you know, a hidden

starship. And my prediction for the end of the

season two is if Burnham's not giving birth to

a... cross Klingon that's why they have the non

-ridges or somehow they inject her blood or somehow

they inject a virus into the Klingons at this

point. I'm almost certain you're going to see

almost every one of these crew members die before

the end of the season. And if they get a second

season you might see some of them survive so

they can tell. a second season with these characters.

But I foresee a lot of these characters kind

of going by the wayside and going away and then

starting over from fresh characters every season.

Just because there's been no mention of Saru's

race in Any of Trek, there's no mention of, you

know, the discovery or a lot of the ships that

are being featured in the war which, you know,

they can... It would be kind of a footnote in

the future. So I mean they they wouldn't necessarily

reference the ships themselves but you would

think there would be some captains that were

brought up as being nefarious or As being you

know, these these figureheads of Starfleet kind

of like Captain Kirk so They're kind of playing

around with fire here and I'm not sure what's

gonna happen I kind of agree with these people

on fanfilmfactor .com in that I don't see Star

Trek as being canon, or Discovery as being canon.

I see this being an alternate universe, an alternate

timeline of the events going on. If it's not

the J .J. Abrams, Kelvin universe, it's another

entirely different universe. There's just way

too much stuff in here that doesn't jive right.

I know that CBS claims that Discovery is canon.

It's not. Looking at the Shenzhou or the Discovery,

they don't even look anything remotely close

to the Constitution class starship. They look

like they're from, you know... the sovereign

class, you know, Excelsior nacelles, all these

ships arriving, like, instantaneously, just,

none of them even have anything that's remotely

close to the Constitution class? Like, I don't

know. I don't know. You know if they're gonna

do it at least give it the look of the Kelvin

universe stuff like for the Enterprise and whatnot

Or if they're gonna have all these random ships

that look like they're way more advanced At least

go that route with the smooth aesthetics of the

ships like they did in the Kelvin universe I

see this is some kind of pocket universe even

the even the d7 battle cruisers that are totally

different and the cloaking device and Which was

non -existent for Klingons at this age like it

Since the Romulans invented it. I Don't know.

There's so much stuff in this that it just rubs

me wrong. I'm not I'm not a fan of this aesthetic

I don't know. What do you guys think this is

this is I know I'm like crapping on the fans

of discovery And I'm not trying to I I'm kind

of a quasi fan of it. I like it for what it is

But I don't like the the series as a whole of

its What they're doing with with this if that

makes any sense like I don't like their... their

look. I don't like, you know, my blue Klingons.

I... Tecumah looks like a dork, to put it lightly.

You know, he's... and he's dead, so like, what,

you know, who cares? Like, it's... He was such

a throwaway character, and they're like, oh,

he's the new Messiah. Okay, yeah, whatever. He

just magically rallies this whole fleet in like

30 seconds. It's... This isn't my track, this

isn't what I'm going to be paying attention to

primarily, but I will see the rest of the season

and kind of see how it plays out, but I'm not

gonna act like this is a part of regular canon

unless they can prove otherwise by the end of

the season. It doesn't fit. There's too many

puzzle pieces that are shooting off in the wrong

direction for me to believe this fits. And so

for that reason, I'm kind of arguing as well

that it's an alternate timeline. Which I'm fine

with if they would just label it that. If they

want to revisit the original series era and they

want to have it fit in another timeline, great,

do it. If they want it to be the Kelvin timeline,

great, do it. But don't... sit there. You know,

it almost looks like the USS Vengeance of the

Discovery looks like a cross. If you mix that

in the Shen Zao and the Excelsior, you get the

USS Vengeance from Into Darkness, which was a

travesty. But that on its own, I don't see this

fitting in regular original series canon at all.

So what do you guys think? Go ahead and sound

off in this comment section. Be sure to subscribe

to the podcast and hopefully soon I get Captain

Dodd back in the center chair to return to the

podcast. In the meantime, Admiral Phillips signing

off. Warp Factor VIII.