Artificial Intelligence and Data Review

This is Tuvok. Mr. Neelix, in his own special

way, has reminded me that I should let you know

that you are listening to This Week in Geek with

the Twig crew exclusively here on ThisWeekInGeek

.net. Greetings, my fellow Starfleet officers!

You're listening to Future Imperfect, brought

to you by the good folks over at SFI .org, Starfleet,

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and of course people like OffworldDesigns .com

with the promo code BROHOOF, 10 % off all those

sweet t -shirts, and that works on international

orders too, and all of our other good spawns

like GameAccess .ca, Big and Tallmart, blah blah

blah. I'm Mike the Birdman Dodd. I'm the captain

of this vessel, if you will. And believe me,

folks, we took a little bit of shore leave during

the summer. In fact, as Steve Megatron Phillips

told me, six weeks of it. Pretty much unheard

of in Starfleet. Although, tonight's episode

I think you're really going to enjoy, but I'm

not alone as I cruise through this mired conversation

I think we're going to have tonight. I'd like

to welcome my co -host... Steve Megatron Phillips

and Steve tonight we're gonna be celebrating

and talking about Lieutenant Commander Data as

portrayed by Brent Spiner, and we're going to

let the conversation evolve beyond the character

of Data as portrayed on the movies and the television

show, we're going to talk about the nature of

artificial intelligence and artificial life such

as the Doctor from Star Trek Voyager, and you

could even kind of maybe roll that into Deep

Space Nine with the holodeck characters of Vic

Fontaine, because I think he was pretty much

sentient by the end of it. And it's interesting

because you look at all the developments we have

in technology in the last couple of years, computers

are getting smarter and smarter every day. Pretty

much you walk in the Best Buyer Stables, the

computer you buy is obviously by the time you

get up to the cash register. So it's an interesting

time because they're talking about quantum computing

and molecular hard drives and all sorts of technology

that would have sounded insane. 25 years ago

when Star Trek the next generation first aired

and now science fiction is becoming science fact

So I think this is a good point to talk about

data Robotics androids. What's the real difference

sort of thing? But as we often do we've got a

couple of things to get out of the way we also

have a a L -Cars this week from Steve talking

about the Zoom -type androids, and I have a review

of Star Trek The Next Generation Season 4 on

Blu -ray, so let's hit that, and when we come

back we'll take a look at L -Cars and then we'll

get into our discussion of data, artificial intelligence,

and beyond. So we'll be right back guys, right

after my voice, again! We are boldly going where

no one has gone before with Star Trek The Next

Generation Season 4 on High Definition Blu -ray

coming to us from Paramount. Season 4. This is

a season I didn't quite expect to grab me the

way it did. There's a number of really memorable...

episodes here, and dealing mostly with the theme

of family. I mean, you get to see deeper interactions

with Data, and specifically with Lore and Dr.

Soon, the episode brothers. And then, even episodes

that deal with the aftermath of the best of both

worlds, in the episode called Family, which deals

with Captain Picard and his family, and him well

beaten the crap out of his brother. But you also

see things going on with Worf, and of a lot of

other Enterprise crew members. And this is when

the show started to get its own steady writing

staff, and you get more of a serialized approach

to things with continuing plot lines and referencing

past episodes. And I really think the writing

really comes into its own this season with that,

too. And a lot of the performances really improved,

most notably, I think, with Brent Spiner, especially

when you see him... play three different characters

in Dr. Soon, Data, Lore and then him expanding

upon that when he does the episode called In

Theory where he gets a girlfriend and trying

to explore that side of not just human sexuality

but also human emotion and relationship and having

him simply deal with heartbreak as I'll delete

that subroutine now. And I really think that

really says something about the credit to the

show, the fact that it gets stronger and stronger

every year, and this was the 100th episode, year

two, and that really says something in television,

when you can get that far. Now, the thing that

really kind of stands out to me in this particular

release, special features, there's basically

two hours of documentaries. You could even say

two and a half, because there's the archival

mission long, which kind of gives you the season

four overview, and that's about... 20 minutes,

I think and then there's one on disc six Which

is called in conversation with the art department

which talks about a lot of things you might not

expect There's if they even talk about things

like some of the ship designs for enterprise

and how it relates to first contact or they'll

talk about the promenade from deep space 9 and

Designing that and talk about how they had to

work with such a limited budget though. They

were getting money and It's a fascinating discussion,

and it's done by the guy named Roger Lay Jr.,

and he has done the Special Features previously,

and he gets a lot of really good conversation

out of these people. There's even a two -part

doc which talks about... basically looking at

the series from the inside and then its kind

of legacy afterwards and just looking at the

different relationships there and you get some

really good conversation out of those. And I

like how these documentaries all come together.

They tell a story that never leaves you bored.

You hear a lot of interesting things out of Rick

Berman, him talking about... I think it was Berman

or Bram. I can't remember the guy's name off

the top of my head right now. That's gonna bother

me. I'm talking about their experiences on Battlestar

Galactica. But trust me when I say it, it's worth

it. You also get the season gag reel. Not as

funny as it has been in previous years. You actually

get deleted scenes from certain episodes. And

commentary on a couple of key episodes as well.

So is it worth it? Absolutely. I mean, if you've

come this far, you're so close to completing

the set, you might as well go for some strong

episodes this season. Some of the best, I think.

So go check out Star Trek The Next Generation

Season 4 on High Definition Blu -ray. And welcome

back to Future Imperfect. Thanks, Mike, for that

great review. I gotta say, Paramount is putting

more and more effort into these than a lot of

other TV series that get ported over to DVD and

Blu -ray. I'm particularly happy with the documentary,

as I mentioned during my review, talking with

the art department on TNG. Just think how much

involvement they really had in the show in terms

of designing its aesthetic. And when you watch

this, watch the documentary, it's called In Conversation

with the Art Department, you'll find out an interesting

story There's a story about Star Trek Enterprise

and the design of the NX -1, how it kind of connects

to Star Trek First Contact, which I had no idea

until they mentioned that. So it's kind of cool.

Plus, there's a story about memos, which I rather

enjoyed. So those special features are actually

done by a guy I know named Roger Lay Jr. who's

working on the new Captain Power series, Project

Phoenix if I'm not mistaken. So go check that

out, totally worth it. Looking forward to season

five, whenever that drops. And next time we come

back on the show, I'll be looking at Star Trek

Enterprise Season 2, a series I'm not super familiar

with, actually. But before we get into today's

discussion of, like I said, artificial intelligence,

data, and beyond, Steve has something very cool

coming from the Library Computer Access System.

This is Lcars. This computer terminal provides

full access to the LCARS computer net. It can

be operated both by voice and keypad commands.

Initiating update. Hello, and welcome to another

edition of LCARS. In this edition of Future Imperfect,

we're talking about, well, data. So, in getting

into that, we're talking about the soon -type

androids, or artificial intelligence. So... A

Soong -type Android is a type of Android first

created by the cyberneticist Dr. Noonien Soong,

who equipped these androids with sophisticated

Positronic brains. And a total of six androids

were known to have been created by Soong, although

only the last three had fully functional Positronic

brains. The first five Soong -type androids were

built as images of Dr. Soong, albeit with pale

skin and yellow eyes. No other individual since

has been able to replicate Soong's accomplishments,

although data came close with the creation of

his daughter, Lau. Soong type androids were capable

of alcohol intoxication, yet components in their

processing systems were susceptible to disruption

by polywater. Now, naming the androids of the

Soong type, you can get into as far as chronological

order. There are two unnamed prototypes. You

have B4, you have Lore, you have Data, you have

Juliana Soom and Lal. B4 is of course the most

basic of the Soom type androids which you encounter

in Star Trek Nemesis. Lore was the albeit unstable

edition of the Soom type robots. Data was pretty

much the... the peak of the Soong type robots

with his many adaptive abilities and growth throughout

the series and the films. The only other one

that was actually truly almost human -like in

Android style was Juliana Soong, who Noonien

Soong managed to make her believe that she was

always human, despite the fact that she wasn't

anymore. So, yes. Honestly, this has been one

of the greatest accomplishments that no one has

ever been able to replicate in the entire Trek

universe, and I think that the Sum -type robots

are not only great as far as the technology is

concerned and the possible future of robotics

that we strive for today, but it also gives hope

that they may... become equals in the sense of

data, not lore. So this wraps up another edition

of Elkar, so now back to the show. No problem.

All right, so tonight's discussion like I said,

we're gonna talk about looking at data and Him

not just as a character but also as a concept

one of the things I like to consider myself Steve

Just to kind of give you an idea where I want

to take this discussion. I consider myself a

futurist I very much look forward to the future

of mankind what it means in terms of where technology

is gonna Gonna take us I play a lot of video

games like say Mass Effect and one of the central

themes in that game is synthetic life and organic

life and mild spoilers here for Mass Effect there's

talk in one of the Mass Effect 3 endings about

synthetic life and artificial life creating this

sort of synthesis between each other and I look

at data in particular, and I kind of see this

as kind of a precursor, while he doesn't have

any real flesh and blood components, it could

be argued that this character, this creation

of Dr. Soong has a soul, and in the episode,

Measure of a Man, in the second season, they

argue Data's sentient rights as a person, and

this is expanded upon even further in Star Trek

Voyager when they start talking about the doctor

as a photonic being? Does he have rights? And

we see this throughout the series. I mean, the

Enterprise's computer decides to rebel at one

point because data programs it with Professor

Moriarty. So I think the idea of artificial intelligence,

true intelligence, I don't think is actually

that far out there. I mean, for example, call

me alarmist. But Steve, let's look at Google,

for example. That's more or less the internet,

right? Yeah. That's the sum of human knowledge,

intelligence, experience. And it's not just peppered

with facts from Wikipedia or WikiLeaks or all

the news sources and even social media like Twitter,

Facebook, and even to an extent MySpace. You

look at all that interaction, all that data,

all that information. And when you look at people

like you and I, when we post on Twitter, we're

giving our thoughts and our human context to

things. I would almost look at it as eventually

I could almost see an intelligence rising from

that. Because we're feeding this digital primordial

soup and you know, sometimes programs behave

ways they're not supposed to Like think I get

like they talk about there's bugs in programming

the programs have to figure out like I don't

know why it's happening and You know, I just

I wonder if at some point we're gonna run into

that Terminator or matrix future where the machines

Literally say I think therefore I am and I'm

not saying rise up and kill us all But it's a

conversation that needs to be had and there was

actually a study and there's a group talking

about this. I really want to say they're American

or Swedish. I remember hearing about this on

a news talk station a couple of months ago where

they're talking about seriously looking at the

fact of artificial intelligence as a potential

threat to mankind. And it's not just from fiction,

like I said, like The Terminator or The Matrix,

but it's a possibility. And I like to think when

you look at episodes like Measure of a Man, let's

say we do create artificial intelligence like

data, where do we go from here? So I guess now

that I've given you all these deep philosophical

thoughts, what's your opening statement on this,

Steve, now that I've said a whole mouthful? Honestly,

I am kind of a futurist too, to some extent.

There's some things that I do think is possible

and other things that I don't think is possible,

like a lot of the technology in Star Trek is

possible. I mean, if you look at it, you have

cell phones, you have some small basis of artificial

intelligence in the sense of like the Siri and

the iPhone being able to figure out what you

want based on what you asked. or be able to search

it out for you, kind of like the Starship Enterprise

computer. So, I mean, that kind of AI exists

today. I mean, there's also I do think that eventually

robotic artificial intelligence will be something

that will come up even possibly in the near future,

because if you look at it, there's already human

-styled android robots being built mostly over

in the other side of the planet but and they're

very lifelike I mean they there's even some that

are doing things that shouldn't be done with

robots but I I do see it happening eventually

and I don't think we're that far off I to some

degree it kind of scares me but That's more so

because it's out of not understanding fully Now

when you look at characters like data that kind

of give you this childlike Intelligence and I'm

not saying data is an idiot, but he has that

very naive sense of understanding people He's

sort of I guess he's supposed to be the mr. Spock

of TNG What do you think appeals people to? This

character other than the fact that he's a robot

or he's an Android and he's cool Honestly, I

think it's kind of the The fact that he learns

and grows as the show progresses If anyone on

that series has changed the most I would argue

that it would be data Yeah, because he like like

when I was watching season 4 in Particular I

noticed I think he gets a lot more personal development

a lot of people give him credit for he has a

girlfriend Albert very short -lived and ensign

Jenna. I can't remember her last name He meets

his father. He has another fight with lore and

you know, he's so close to getting the emotion

chip but gets screwed out of it at like the last

minute and He goes to people for advice in this

and I think The programming that he has given

to him by Dr. Soong, I guess it's a learning

computer. It's constantly growing and expanding

every episode with every conversation. And I

guess that because Data, he wanted to be the

most human -like as far as his androids are concerned.

He built him so that he was breathing, had a

pulse. He had the ability to dream to feel I

Mean he was pretty much other than the fact that

he didn't know how to cope with emotion to begin

with He pretty much was as much human as we are

today. I mean he kind of reminds me And I hope

I don't offend anybody by saying this. Reminds

me of people with Asperger's syndrome that are

very socially awkward and Data's still trying

to maneuver that minefield of social interaction

because he doesn't have the emotions or doesn't

necessarily understand what he's feeling. I think

he understands human nuance. He gets that. I

mean, he makes... observational humor, though

maybe not necessarily on purpose all the time,

but he has subroutines and programs within him

which emulate the behavior of us, and it's fascinating

just to watch him interact with people. He's

asking people for advice Just one of the things

that I've picked up on when he's talking to her.

He says I had the he's like less than one percent

of the ship knows about our relationship and

he's talking about the people he went to for

advice such as Riker and Geordi Etc and I I have

a friend of mine who has kind of done the same

thing to me whenever he runs into a problem with

a girl who'll come to me for advice, because

he doesn't necessarily get the social interactions.

Like, what do I do now? And I find that very

fascinating. I like the fact that the show even

kind of went there. The fact that, you know,

falling in love with machine so to speak and

I think that's relevant now more so than it ever

has been in the past because you look at say

online dating for example um and it's much more

it's it's better now now that we have things

like skype and facebook and you know even um

what's that app on the iphone um where you can

see each other facetime facetime yeah so you

have the true video phone but back in my day

christ i sound old um you were talking over msn

or if you remember icq and trillion And you were

talking with text. So you had no idea whether

that was a man, a woman, or it could have been

a really intelligent program talking back at

you. And I'm pretty sure I've read short stories

about computers falling in love with people and

vice versa, and not knowing that, oh, that's

a machine on the other end of that. And I don't

know, there's just something about that particular

episode I really, really, really liked. And...

There's something about Data that I really connect

with and the fact that he's trying to understand

his humanity because I believe he does have it

and when they talk about measure of a man Picard

makes the argument does this machine have a soul

or I think it was the woman who says that that's

something we can't prove in this courtroom today

or something along those lines I find that personal

journey very relevant to me, for example, because

when I was younger I was very in touch with who

I was, very much sort of cry at the drop of a

hat. And then at one point in my life I very

much changed, and my friend Pierce said it best,

the Terminator doesn't cry. And even in Terminator

2 when Arnie's character is about to die, he

says to John Connor, I now know why you cry,

it's something I can never do. and I kind of

look at data and I think in some ways he gets

that about people and that's kind of the way

I'm almost seeing people again I mean I understand

people now but sometimes I don't understand why

they do what they do and I see parallels between

myself and data in that thing although I'm not

as emotionally retarded, if you pardon the expression.

I know we're gonna get letters for that one.

So feedback this week in geek .net if you think

I'm offensive. And I don't know, there's just

something about Data that's always really kind

of attracted me more to the show than any other

character on there. And I think Brent Spiner,

outside of Patrick Stewart, gave some of the

most powerful performances on that show. Oh,

I have to agree. I mean, also think of it this

way. Brent Spiner managed to play four, well,

I take that back, five different versions between

Data and the Soong family line between various

Star Trek series. He played the one version of

Soong that was evil that was in Enterprise. And

then he was the Noonian Sun that was in TNG.

He also played Lore and B4 and Data. I mean,

he... But each one of them had different dynamics

of... Especially the three androids for looking

the same had completely different personalities.

Yeah, and that's really a credit to Spiner's

acting ability just the fact that he was able

to pull that off There's actually something they

mentioned in the special features that in the

episode brothers originally, they were gonna

have someone else play doctor soon and Spiner

said I think it was Rick Berman at the time I

think it was like one of the last episodes he

directed or wrote or something like that that

hey, why don't I play this and He's like, oh

god, what have I gotten myself into? and you

realize this guy's got a real range to his abilities

and I think of all the of all the people on the

show maybe outside of freaks he has the most

fun because he gets a chance to play with it

and in all the blooper reels you see he's usually

the one cracking jokes or doing something funny

in fact if you remember remember in the episode

brothers where he does an imitation of Picard's

voice to lock out the computer Uh, yeah. That's

not dubbed. That's actually Spiner doing that.

Well, I've actually heard him. There was, I've

seen it in a video too, there was, it was a fan

convention and Patrick Stewart was on stage and

he was talking and then Brent Spiner started

talking from the crowd as Picard before he walked

up on stage. Oh, I remember that now. And I thought

that was quite hilarious because he sounded just

like him. yeah and like that's something kind

of that's something that i really appreciate

about spiner is he's got that really weird sense

of humor any interviews that he does there's

always a weird kind of smile to him and i don't

know there's just something that i really think

spiner brought to this character that i don't

think anybody else possibly could have i mean

in terms of data and like he said he got the

most development of any of the characters really

over the series you really got a chance to really

know him obviously being a fan favorite and in

fact I don't know if this is an inappropriate

point to tell this story but I found this out

and I couldn't believe it have you ever heard

of the woman who's obsessed with Brent Spiner

and is named Gayle. No. Okay, I'm going to give

you the short version because the real version

is so weird you wouldn't believe it. Okay, so

there's this woman named Gayle who believes she

is married to Brent Spiner mentally. They have

mental sex every night with Vladimir Putin and

she believes every single word that she says.

this woman is obsessed with Brent because he

wrote to her once back in the 90s I think and

You know, oh my god, it's so weird typing Gail

Brent Spiner in the Google and go look her up

on YouTube and All she does is yell about how

people are. Oh and she She allowed Matthew McConaughey

to marry someone and Hugh... Oh, this is great.

Hugh Jackman and his robot friend rescued her

from an Australian prison. I wish I was making

this up. Somebody needs to be locked up in a

psych ward. No, they need to be given a webcam

and 24 -7 access. This is great. But yeah, she

was this obsessed fan with Brent Spiner and I

just... got to thinking, man, you attract the

weirdos, don't you? But that aside, I'm wondering

what else I'd like to add about Data before I

kind of want to... I'm not quite sure where I

want to steer the conversation because this opens

up a whole new kettle of fish, I think, when

there's one episode where Data creates his own

daughter. LOL dies, but he transfers her memories

into him, so in essence, she lives on. not afraid

of death I'm afraid of the loss of consciousness

and what I mean by that is I lack I fear the

ability to acknowledge my own death do you kind

of get what I'm saying yes yeah I just don't

want the light switch to be and that's it and

you look at a character like data He has that

too because he's said I'm afraid of someone discovering

my switch and just turning me off and Riker does

that in once again measure of a man where he

says and like this Pinocchio strings are cut

and I think that's that's really I Don't know

when you look at the evolution of artificial

intelligence and even digital life That's kind

of terrifying when you think about it Good response,

Steve. I completely agree with that. I myself

am more wondering of will there be some kind

of artificial positronic kind of brain to transfer

memories to so that you could live on in some

degree instead of, like you said, having the

light shut off. Don't look forward to that day

where the light shut off. I know the body will

wither and die I just I wish there was another

alternative kind of like data Yeah, and it's

because one of the things that's really popular

in science fiction and I think this was by William

Gibson and Neuromancer there's something called

a brain tape and they can have an aspect of you

live on as an interactive program and When I

look at the ability to maybe, could you ever

copy the human brain to upload to a computer

to exist as something else? This is a conversation

I had on my way to PAX a couple of years ago.

Is the future of humanity more digital than opposed

to physical? And we're becoming closer to cyborgs

every day. I don't know, I mean, one of the things

that I think kind of makes this possible, and

I'm not sure whether this argument is going to

make a whole lot of sense, Look at the transporter,

for example. In my mind, that's high -tech murder.

Because you're essentially destroying one thing

to create it in another place. Does the consciousness

transfer? So in theory, when you're transporter,

could you not copy that pattern into something

else? Well, if you want to talk transporters,

too, you could also be killing the previous version

and out comes the clone artificial copy of the

first copy that was destroyed and that always

that never bothered me till i can't remember

where the hell i first heard that but i was like

that's utterly friggin terrifying when you really

kind of break it down yet with data it would

always be constant wouldn't it Yeah, I mean there's

because his program could be backed up on the

enterprise the second he gets back on just uploads

it again Yeah, just plug him back in boom done.

Yeah, exactly. So it's like it's one continuous

experience and that's I'm envious of that in

a way just the fact that data in theory could

exist as raw data and live Wow, that's a pineapple

thought I'd make um, he would in theory live

forever in that state um and there's the fact

that data was willing to create new life for

himself too in creating other people i i i have

a feeling there's they're they're saying something

deeper with that if if you follow my life when

artificial life creates life and the fact that

that life felt something i mean lol says to data

love you at one point and Data surpassed his

own programming so to speak the fact that he

was able to give her that emotion and I Think

there's there's something in here that I want

to connect. I'm not I think I lack the vocabulary

to do so But I think it says something I really

do um About when you look at a character like

Data A man created that. That creation then created

life. Is that not some kind of an evolution?

I would say so. And I wonder if we'll ever truly

accomplish something like that because I'd like

to think we would, and I'm not saying the concept

of a soul can be created, but in my opinion,

I think Data does have a soul. He doesn't have

to have a heart to have that. It's not defined

by bi - by biologics and you can even bring in

the the one I guess that's what we're doing here.

We're bringing in the metaphysical to it and

with artificial intelligence once again looking

at characters like Data and the Doctor Think

about who gives you the most human stories in

Star Trek. It's these emotionless created characters.

I mean for example seeing the Doctor Try to delete

a painful memory when his artificial family dies

with data having to watch lol die Feeling her

die because he's got memories of her death inside

of him not being able to comprehend that and

I guess I'm reading really far into the fiction

here, but think about it when he gets his emotion

chip for the first time think about every decision

that now has emotional context to it. Well, there's

now an equal and opposite kind of reaction to

everything. I mean, there's consequences to every

decision he makes now because he has that extra

added element to his intelligence, which is the

emotion. And it's really weird because, I mean,

just looking at something like that, I mean,

it's almost envious to not have emotion because

you're not you're literally your decisions can

be based upon logic and strategy and basically

it breaks down to the universal language of math

and you know just knowing this is right based

upon this however having emotion gives you that

that gives you just that instinct gives you that

gut feeling and yet there are times in the show

it may be just a slip in the performance or maybe

even in the writing or maybe it was intended

to be that way because Soon wrote it into Data.

It's almost like he goes with a gut feeling,

like the fact that when they thought Geordi and

Roe Laren were dead, Data didn't give up. Like

he knew, and then he asked Worf, for example,

hey, what should we do to celebrate the fact

that they're dead? And they threw a party. So,

I think there's something to be said. for this

character and you know this conversation went

a lot differently than i had in envisioned it

rather than talking about data's exploits and

what he's accomplished you know being assimilated

by the borg and all this shit i found it more

interesting to talk about what he was than what

he's done if that makes um more sense for the

context of this conversation and I really wanted

to draw attention to the fact that I think Star

Trek is really predicting the future in the fact

like I said one day we're gonna have a conversation

like in measure of a man Where we're gonna have

to ask ourselves the things that we create do

they have rights and you look at all the robotic

factories now We look at all the space probes

that are going I mean even the ones on Mars has

a very sophisticated computer suite Stuff like

that and eventually these things are gonna get

to a point where they can make decisions I think

there was a TED talk I watched last year or they

want to send a probe to Europa to dig through

the ice to go underneath it to look for stuff,

this thing has to be able to make decisions.

And making a decision is a very important part

of life. In my opinion, it's the ability to have

a choice. And whether you could argue a cat makes

a choice or is relying on instinct, I don't know.

I mean, we can already make robots that are as

intelligent as cockroaches, et cetera, et cetera,

just reacting to external stimuli. But I think

honestly, at some point we are going to be able

to create something as smart as a data. And I

honestly think at some point something like a

data will be able to create something else. And

there's a thing in Mass Effect where they say

the created will always rebel against their creator.

Yet when data was rescued by Starfleet, he chose

to be thankful and made the decision to go to

Starfleet Academy. to repay them to be an explorer

and a scientist, whereas Lore was a fucking nut,

for lack of a better phrase. He was very maniacal

and very evil. But even he says, he's like, brother,

one day you'll understand why I do the things

that I do. And maybe in some ways, Lore was more

human, but maybe just had more flaws than data

emotionally. Maybe he's a misunderstood villain.

Although he does try to get the Borg to end all

organic, so I guess that kind of throws that

argument out the window. But hey, people thought

Hitler had good intentions at first too. So I

guess that kind of lays out my argument here.

So, I don't know, Steve, do you think we've really

kind of left anything out, I mean, in terms of

the philosophical questions about Data? Well,

I mean, also was one of those interesting life

forms that seemed to be intrigued by using things

from the holodeck and when I when I get to that

I mean he enjoyed playing characters that challenged

his intelligence such as Sherlock Holmes against

Moriarty and being in the Dixon Hill series with

Picard and Playing poker with like Hawking Einstein

and Newton But I think they also kind of wrapped

him up and gave him his ultimate humanity by

The time nemesis came around despite how bad

the film actually is It kind of sets the the

tone for data and that because he once again

finds another long -lost brother, but is like

one of the early early prototypes and he tries

to help bring him up to his level and by copying

everything he knows into him and before the end

he saves his kind of surrogate father of Picard

knowing that he's going to die and sacrificing

himself for everyone else and so he creates this

illusion of the ultimate piece of humanity which

is Death. But then he kind of negates that by

uploading his memories to B4. Technically it

insinuates that he comes back like he's reincarnated,

but technically not because B4 is so low -level

positronic brain that it would take literally

forever to fully imprint, although in the expanded

universe as far as like the comics... Which is

supposed to be canon for the Star Trek online

game, which is supposed to be established canon.

That's what they tell us because it ties into

Star Trek, the J .J. Abrams verse. So it's all

very convoluted, honestly. But yeah, I mean,

and in a way, I think him transferring his soul,

if you want to call it that, to be for is maybe

the ultimate act of humanity. Follow my line

here. He's afraid of death. What defines anything

more than a fear of death? I mean really think

about that is Data I don't know I really think

it's Maybe the act of self -sacrifice is like

once again one of the greatest things a person

or anything can really do but the fact that data

He kind of cheated he gets to come back now He

kind of, in a sense, did what Spock did with

McCoy. Yeah, yeah, I was just about to say, yeah,

wow, I never even thought of it like that. Man,

talk about all these reincarnated people. But

although I can kind of recant on my previous

argument, he wouldn't have the same memories

up until the moment of death. He would be missing...

that 15 -20 minutes. Or in essence, he'd be missing

because... He'd be missing about a day. Yeah,

or potentially more. Let's say B4's personality

asserts itself until the emotion chip is installed.

So he could be missing like a year or more until

he wakes up as Data, so to speak, because he

would have been coming back at the moment just

before he beamed out. So that's very... It'll

bake your noodle when you really think about

it. Um, so yeah, I mean, there's our discussion

on data. Take from this what you will, whether

it's artificial life becoming more, is this what

we're destined to become? Are we all the same?

Is it? Positronic versus a meat brain? Or is

it just the fact that our souls define us as

opposed to what we're actually made out of? So

next time on Future Imperfect, I promise you

it won't be another 6 weeks, probably towards

the end of the month of September. Now hopefully

you guys have been checking out our series of

Star Trek Renegades interviews. It ends tomorrow

on September 12th, so hopefully these guys have

got an amazing amount of funding and I know...

They're shooting no matter what starting in just

a couple of weeks. I think Something like two

weeks or less. I think something like that really

soon anyway to get the show on the road here

and we should see that in early 2014 we've already

talked to some really fantastic people So hopefully

you'll go you'll go back and check that out on

last week's Star Trek week so this was kind of

a bookend to that because I I've rediscovered

my inner Trekkie over these past couple of weeks

talking with these people and you know just pushing

the show off with Steve during quote -unquote

shore leave was a chance for me to kind of recharge

the Star Trek batteries because it's hard to

come back every week to talk Trek you have to

really be into it and that kind of brings us

to our next show we're gonna talk about we're

gonna look At the Star Trek Pilots we're gonna

look at all them from the original series all

the way up to Enterprise Which had the best which

had the worst and why and then following that

we're gonna look at the finales for every series

Which one was the worst which one was the best?

And I think there's an unexpected winner, in

my opinion, here. So hopefully we'll be joined

by LeoThatSciFiGuy, or maybe some other people

we can drag into this discussion. So, once again,

for a future imperfect, brought to you by SFI

.org, the world's largest Star Trek online fan

club, and people like offworlddesigns .com, where

you get some awesome discounts using the program

code BROHOOF. It's totally worth your time. So

anyway, I've been Mike the Birdman Dodd with...

Steve Megatron Phillips, and until next time

my friends live long and prosper.