Max Payne Review

Hey, this is Greg burger and you are listening

to the geek cast radio network Hello and welcome

to episode 159 of The Cinema Geeks. I am one

of your Cinema Geeks optimists, Solo. Joining

me today is Hard Candy Mandy. Hey, bros. Move

your vault, Dan. I guess you would be one of

the other bros. Yeah. Hey, Dan. I think so. I

think so. We're all bros. And Mr. Ferthesent,

how's it going? Hi. Hi, we are here. We are back

for our first episode of the 2018 year, the calendar

year, so we're getting back today into some unfinished

business. We still have a few video game films

to cover, and I know you all are very excited

about that. Right, Matt? Dan? Amanda? What? Yeah.

Oh. Boomin' with excitement. Eventually we will

be done with this. So we're covering another

video game film today We're gonna be talking

about Max Payne if you guys are familiar with

our track record at this time of the year You

know the past two three four years of records

You're probably thinking that this is an odd

thing for us to be doing because usually we have

a whole slew of end -of -year beginning -of -year

type things that we do at this time of year And

that will be coming so don't fret we will all

be doing our movie awards our best of list here

coming up next episode then we'll be getting

into our box office predictions, our most anticipated

films. doing the final tally on our winter predictions

that we made back in the day. So we'll be doing

all that and taking care of all that business.

But we wanted to get one more video game film

sneaking in there before that. So we're here

today to talk about Max Payne, which is a 2008

Canadian -American neo -noir action thriller

film. That's what it's listed as on Wikipedia.

Based on the video game series, obviously of

the same name, Max Payne, this one stars Mark

Wahlberg, Mila Kunis, Beau Bridges, Ludicrous.

Chris O'Donnell, I didn't know he did any films

in the last decade. Nelly Furtado and a few other

people. Karl Lenko and some others that some

people would recognize. What we normally do though

is we start off talking about just the video

game. So Dan, we'll start with you. Did you have

any experience growing up or in the last decade

playing Max Payne games? I did. I did play Max

Payne quite a bit. Actually the first game. And

I remember when hearing that they're making a

Max Payne movie, thinking, well, that makes a

lot of sense because it's presented, basically.

It was like, you could legitimately just do that

story. So yeah, I did play Max Payne. Did you

enjoy the games? I did. I was a big fan of the

crime genre. And it was like, it was feeling

like you were actually participating in like

a classic noir film, but in the video game realm.

So I thought it was really effective on that

end. Excellent. Amanda, did you ever play Max

Payne? No sir. Matt, what about you? Yeah, I

played through the entirety of the first game.

I loved that game. It was definitely a grim and

edgier game than I was used to at that time.

Your health bar increased not by med packs like

you would see in Half -Life, but by taking painkillers

and you would get a limp and stuff. And it had

bullet time, which was the coolest thing back

then. Like you always were trying to jump one

way or the other to slow down time. Like it was

it was pretty huge when it came out. All right.

So you two are going to be able to speak to this

the most because I never played a Max Payne game

either. So how well does the movie represent

the games that you guys remember playing? Matt,

we'll start with you. Oh, man, like it's very

similar, like it's pretty much. A lot of the

beats are the same, right? Like the good cop

going rogue trying to figure out who killed his

wife for way too long and baby for way too long.

Like all of that was in the game. I don't remember

if the mega corporation thing was in there or

not, but I mean, it's been almost 20 years since

that game came out. Apparently the person behind

the game was not a big fan or at least the CEO

of 3d realms and producer that was behind the

game Scott Miller He actually was very much against

it made a lot of statements about the game when

it or the film when it came out because he Didn't

like some of the minor things I guess that they

changed He didn't like that the audience didn't

know why max was seeking revenge And I guess

there was some minor details that they kind of

changed around as far as who did what and when

certain things happened Dan, what about you though,

when it came to the gameplay that you remember,

did it have the same type of aesthetic or the

same type of feel that at least the game did?

Somewhat, it felt more heavily CGI and like blue

screen, which is weird to say compared to a video

game, but like, I think it had more of an artificial

feeling to it when I was watching it. Like it

felt like if you're a drunken friend, Was trying

to explain the game to you and then like kind

of got the major beats but like kind of messed

up all the things in between Best way to subscribe

it gotcha gotcha So it seems like it has some

parts of the game that might be represented there

definitely has some of the characters and some

of the events But it seems like they did take

some some liberties as far as what they wanted

to create and what they didn't add in there I

know the one thing that I read as far as like

the Valkyries or the the demons or whatever is

represented in the film is not something that

was Evident in the game, but then I guess in

the film that's supposed to be part of a hallucination,

but it was never really clear that that's what

was going on to me. Yeah the game was much more

subtle with things and like I don't know like

how much Mark Walmart had to do with it but it's

he like played the game or had an idea of the

game but like wanted to I don't know like make

things cooler but by doing that he made it kind

of just dumber. Gotcha gotcha, so I guess a middling

score as far as how well it represents the game

from what it sounds like from what you guys are

saying as far as the actual film had a budget

of 35 million dollars and actual worldwide gross

is 85 million so more than double its budget

if you include both domestic and international

monies Interesting thing though here. I wonder

if you guys know what else was happening back

in October 17th 2008 This film opened up number

one at the box office That week that weekend

so it had made seventeen and a half million that

weekend and beat The other new films that were

released that weekend which were the secret life

of bees the film W and sex drive So that was

the stiff competition it was facing back in October

of 2008 It's a rough week of movies and I I will

sadly admit that I was part of that because I

did I did see this in theaters when I came out

and I Think it was opening weekend. I don't know

for sure, but I do know I did see it in theater

so you can partially blame me It was very similar

to the money that Hitman, Resident Evil, and

Silent Hill made, as far as domestic goes. So

it was very in line with those, I guess, from

a box office standpoint. From a critical standpoint,

not. as favorable. It was universally panned.

It has a current Rotten Tomatoes score of 16%,

which is based on 131 reviews. Mark Wahlberg

received a Golden Raspberry Award nomination

for Worst Actor for his performance in the film.

He lost. Anybody want to take a guess as to who

he lost to in 2008? Mike Myers for the film.

Guru? The love guru. Oh boy. So we're fired to

beat him out there when it came from that. So

that's what the critics thought of Max Payne,

but let's see what we thought of Max Payne. Amanda,

you haven't talked yet about the actual film,

so what were your thoughts of watching this one?

I actually like this movie. I've seen it a few

times, probably like a handful of times. Even

though I never played the game and didn't have

any attachment to it, I still thought it looked

super cool. But I also like Sin City. I think

that they're super similar in like look and tone.

I liked the Valkyrie scenes. I thought they were

dope. I knew that they were hallucinating. How

do you say this? Hallucinations. Hallucinations.

But I thought that they were done in a super

cool way where if I wanted to believe that these,

you know, people were actually being taken away

or killed by these Valkyries, you could because

they look super cool. I think that... The the

same chick is in hitman and Max Payton, right?

scandalous lady Mila Kunis's sister in this You're

asking remember details about this film at this

moment. Oh, look curry lanko. Yeah I think it's

funny that we have this movie pack of Max Payne

hitman and like Babylon ad in the same chick

as in the last two I don't understand why Babylon

ad is in that pack but Maybe I don't know. So

that it's not an entire ripoff? So your overall

initial reaction is positive? Yeah, and I liked

the whole drug aspect. It was believable as far

as made -up warrior drugs go. I'm gonna process

that statement for a second here. Matt, what

was your take on the film? Oh man, like... I

can see what it wanted to do, right? Like it

wanted to be like a noir detective film, but

it wanted to have like a modern edge. Like it's,

it's not terrible. It's just not good. Like it's

like, it's so middling with every choice it makes.

I don't know. I don't want to trash it cause

it's not terrible. Like it tries and is better

than a lot of the movies we've watched. That

is a ringing endorsement in this film series

for sure Dan, where do you fall as far as your

reaction to the memorable Max Payne? Yeah, I

think that is ultimately the biggest thing about

it is it falls in line with some of the other

movies that we've done We've done some really

horrible awful films Someone's that are like,

okay legitimately either intentionally or potentially

funny and then like this to me is middling of

the road and but also just ultimately forgettable

because as as a Matt said there's nothing like

I would say that is awful like I like like, you

know makes you question everything they're doing

there's some What is doing wrong or like normal

movie wrong things like if that was a very good

sentence But it's not like it was like put together

just horrifically or you know, it's not it's

not postal or something like that that is just

an awful piece of garbage that has no business

existing. It's just like some of the plot details

are a little muddled and looking at, for example,

the murder that establishes this entire plot.

When you kind of look back at it in the entire

movie that was spurred from it, it kind of never

really establishes the purpose behind that murder

or why it happened or things like that. Some

of the details make little sense or... You know

some continuity issues, but like they're normal

plot problems I think though like a lot of that

could because a lot of Norse I kind of have similar

issues would be fine if simply like Mark Wahlberg

was more memorable like This is a type of character.

I don't think works really well for Mark Wahlberg

the subdued like more, you know internal type

of character he's better like being obnoxious

or something like that it just doesn't it just

makes him boring as a character and then when

the action does come it's not as interesting

as it could be i i kind of applaud the fact that

it doesn't try to overuse like things like full

of time but also it felt like he could try to

use it a little bit more because the one sequence

we did get was probably the the best sequence

of the entire film I didn't hate it. I didn't

love it. It was just kind of there. It existed.

I think that sums up my thoughts too. It's a

movie that is not actively making me angry or

anything like that. It's not laughably bad as

we get with a bunch of the UA Bowl films. But

is there anything... Noteworthy about it. Is

there anything that stands out? Is there anything

that I'm gonna remember about it? I I mean honestly,

do you give more points to something like a couple

of the UA bowl films because I'll remember at

least more of those films than I'm going to of

this film even though this is a better put together

and realized film so But it is just so forgettable

to me and and I think that's the where it's gonna

Just kind of fall just in that average zone i

just i don't know i like even trying to remember

different scenes in different plots i'm struggling

very much with that. So I had a question for

you guys because it seemed like the one thing

that the critics kind of agreed on kind of touches

on a little bit of what Amanda was talking about.

This is, you know, both with the Rotten Tomatoes

and a couple other critics that had some reviewers,

a couple quotes from them, both some stylish

action. Another one said that his images are

richer than his plots. Another one said that

the most striking element is the production design.

So, you know, obviously Amanda made a reference

to Sin City and some of the aesthetics and some

of the visuals. Dan or Matt is that the best

thing about this film is the production design

and the the style or Or do you feel that there's

other things that are bright spots for it? Man

it's a good question I guess for the time it

probably looked a lot better. I know looking

at it now Ten years later. I'm thinking of specifically

like that, you know when that went out on the

ice sequence and things like that It just feels

very like maybe that I kept thinking about oddly

enough was that movie the spirit? just how like

the backgrounds did always seem kind of fake,

but I don't know if that was the intention they

were going for. I'll give it at least, you know,

if I'm looking at the things that were most interesting

or the things that I would probably remember

the most, it probably would be some of those

visuals, especially those drug sequences. I think

visually there was some creativity there compared

to some of the other elements, so I can kind

of get where they're coming from, but I also

feel like sometimes the visuals just were lacking,

but I don't know if that was just... to keep

back 10 years ago. Matt, what do you think about

the visuals or the style of the film? Personally,

I didn't like the whole, like, are the Valkyries...

Valkyrie, right? Yeah. Like, are they real or

are they not? Since I didn't like that concept,

I don't like the visuals. Like, they weren't

unimpressive. Like, I mean... you know if you

look back old movies like sometimes they don't

hold up even my favorite like the the the star

wars prequels are real bad now like you could

tell that they didn't make a single clone trooper

and i think that this you know only being a few

years later does look better but they did a really

good job for how small the budget they had i'll

give them that I love the fact that with these

video game films We keep getting like lists and

rankings and quotes and stuff like that that

really make no sense Here's one for IGN. They

gave Max Payne the best video game adaptation

award of 2008 My notes only have This movie and

in the name of the king as the only two video

game films that came out in 2008 so learning

like animated movies No, it's like they're even

quoted as saying this is how sad games to films

have become that the only one Worthy of being

named the best of the year was also a movie that

we panned so it's like what is the point of doing

that? So I guess it's the best video game adaptation

of 2008 at least Amanda you had some notes on

the film that you haven't got a chance to go

to so what we're some of the things that stood

out from you in either a positive or negative

way. Oh, let's see. I like how the bad guys were

actually like bad dudes, you know what I mean?

Like they were badasses or they were like evil?

Both. They didn't have good intentions really

for anybody and it was all about, you know, certain

point drugs and revenge and power and control

and making the, you know, these super soldiers.

They knew what they were doing. They knew that

it was messing people up. But I liked that it

made it to where, like, it was believable for

me. Like, I can see the military doing this,

you know what I mean? Doing something to give

them an edge and not really caring what it's

doing to the subjects as long as they're getting

a result that they want. So I liked that the

bad dudes were believable and they were badass.

Anything else? Let's see. Oh When he's got the

naked chick in his room, he's like get your shit

and get out. He ain't about that life Okay, he's

not about that life. He knew exactly what he

was doing at that party and it wasn't picking

up chicks like how he was driven and I don't

know. I dug it. I don't really have like good

have any notes on this film Real quick Dan or

Matt we talked a little bit about Mark Wahlberg

getting a Golden Raspberry nomination. But the

one thing about this film is there are a bunch

of names that we do know. Like I said, Boat Bridges,

Ludacris, Mila Kunis, Chris O'Donnell, Nelly

Furtado, Donna Logue, who's been in a lot of

stuff recently like Gotham and those types of

things. Obviously Olga Kurylenko, we can talk

about her previous video game appearance. So

we do have some names that some people would

actually know. Did anybody give a performance

that was good? Dan, start with you. Did anybody

stand out as maybe the best performer? or were

they all Mark Wahlberg -like? I mean, I do like

Bill Bridges. Like, I do. I thought, although,

like, again, his turn of his character is kind

of strange, and why they kind of went through

the James Bond elaborate plot of trying to kill

Max Payne at the end, I guess that's just movie

magic, what have you. And Donald Logue, I enjoy

him always, you know, from back from, like, watching,

like, Grouded for Life, and I think that was,

like, on at the same time when this was out,

so... But yeah, what is kind of funny is I was

watching some interviews regarding Max Payne

just to remind myself, but hearing Ludacris talk

about his character is pretty funny because it's

like his explanation of his character and then

watching the movie, it's like, that's not at

all what he did. So that was pretty memorable.

And another interesting thing about that role

is it was written for like a 60 year old man.

But they went with Ludacris, so. I don't know

where you make that jump, but that's uh, that's

interesting. I mean how you get you gotta get

that money somehow. So I mean Ludacris I'm sure

he brought in Also, like if they if they didn't

bring in ludacris, it would have just been a

bunch of like white dudes So like like we already

had old white guy like let's get someone here

to do old white guy part two Matt what did you

think anybody that you liked in this or any other

manner? I'm gonna echo what Dan said that Donald

Logue was probably the best performance. And

I think Ludacris was probably the most likable

character because it seemed like he was trying

to figure out what was going on. And I would

have much rather had the movie just been from

his point of view the whole time. Makes sense

makes sense. All right. Well, if nobody else

has any other notes I guess we should go about

giving this one some sort of score if you can

remember the the curved or Weird scale we're

using I guess when you try to think of it within

the realms of video game films I don't know.

We've all been kind of ranking and I guess with

a curve so to speak so Dan, where do you go with

Max Payne? Where does it fall? Is it the upper

half the lower half right in the middle? What

kind of score does it get when it compares? Yeah,

kind of looking back at Max Payne, I think its

biggest problem is like what's interesting about

the video game is that you're it's taking a lot

of the tropes of the movie genre or noir genre

and putting it in a video game world. That's

what's interesting about it is that it's like

playing being in a movie, but then once you take

that and try to make a movie out of it, it's

like a case of diminishing returns. It's like

you're taking a copy of a copy. and then it loses

part of what was interesting about it, because

it's back to the medium that inspired it, so

it ends up being, in a way, kind of purposeless,

and I think that's why you end up with a movie

like this, because it's a movie that, a property

that very much was based upon the identity of

other things, but kind of making it its own,

then you're basically putting it back in a flood

of things, I don't know. It's like taking sand

from a beach, and it's putting it in a cup, and

you put it on a Display at home and it makes

sense because it's like by itself, but what you

put it back into the sand again It's just hard

to recognize That was a bad analogy. But anyways,

I Would probably say this is say this is middle

-of -the -road for me I would call it like a

five out of ten put it around trying to think

of where it would fit similar movies like doom

I think I like doom more But it's around that

same level. It felt good to watch this after

watching Pulse not too long ago. But not to the

level of some of the more competent movies, even

something like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat,

I enjoyed much more than my experience with Max

Payne. All right, Matt, what do you think about

grades and where it compares to some of the other

video game films we've talked about? Oh, man,

I think it like... It's got one of the dumbest

fight scenes, like, of any of the movies. And

you gotta think, like, House of the Dead had

that weird one where it would do, like, a 360

zoom around every character holding one gun,

and then it'd go to the fight scene, and they're

holding a different gun, and they might have

even been in different clothes. Like, it made

no sense. But, like, this one, like, when Marky

Mark's running through an office, and there's,

like... 60 squat guys, SWAT guys, just unloading

automatic guns, and he's just running, not hiding

behind anything, just running away, shooting

over his shoulder, and it would cut back and

forth, and he's not taking any hits, and they're

going down, but he's not looking, and they're

wearing tactical armor and shit, like it's got

one of the dumbest, but at the same time, it's

not a broken movie. It functions, it does all

the things you're supposed to do, it hits all

the beats, it's just not. Amazing. So it's hard

to really rate it low. I think five out of ten

is perfect All right, Amanda there someone in

agreement there. What do you think? I'll say

like six and a half seven based on just my enjoyment

level Where does it fit in your realm of video

game? Like what does it compare to like is it

better or worse than hitman for you? Man, I see

them as as kind of the same really Okay. Originally

the film was going to be rated R2, but they shaved

some stuff off so it would get a little bit of

a lower rating as well. I'm with you guys as

far as Matt and Dan. I'm like in the four or

five range. Like it's just, it's so middle of

the road and I'm struggling with where I would

put it. I think it's a better made movie than

Doom. But did I have more fun with doom maybe

does it kind of go in the realm of hitman? I

don't know It's it's definitely not gonna be

in my top echelon and it's not gonna be necessarily

one of the three or four worse So it's just kind

of there it exists and that's about all I can

say about it So I'm not gonna be overwhelming

positive or glowing review I don't think from

from most of us that we are winding down that

we only have a few more video game Films to cover.

This was the last one of the two 2008 films as

we talked before so we're gonna make a jump next

time all the way to 2010. Nothing in 2009 to

talk about unless we wanted to go back and talk

about one of the Street Fighter sequels. So in

2010 we got to Prince of Persia The Sands of

Time. After that we just have Need for Speed,

Warcraft, and Assassin's Creed. Amanda, what's

your anticipation level for Prince of Persia

the sands of time? I'm actually excited to watch

it because I've seen it once before and I Feel

like I liked it headphones. It'll be a first

time watch for me So hey, I can't be worse than

some of the other stuff. We watched canopy Dan.

What's your excitement level for Prince of Persia?

Actually going into this this was like the one

I was looking forward to the most because I remember

actually having some interested in when it came

out I I've not really played in much of the Prince

of Persia games. I've watched people play them

and they've always looked fun. But I felt like

it's probably, if I remember correctly, one of

the more high budget ones. You know, I think

a lot of effort went in. Plus, you know, it's

Jake Gyllenhaal playing a Persian, so that should

be awkward. Yeah. Matt, what do you think? Prince

of Persia, the most exciting one left for you

or are you more excited for Need for Speed? Oh,

geez. At least Prince of Persia is like... fantasy

which is my my bag so like i think is that the

only one we got left that's fantasy I mean Warcraft

is pretty fantasy. No Do we have to with that

one? Hey, we got four more films fighting for

a spot in our overall rankings four more films

that could sway the tide and Bump people out

of different spots. So we got to give them all

a fair shake We got to be complete us here guys

if we're gonna do it. We got to finish it off

strong So the four films left to cover and then

this Spotlight will be put to bed. So it's Prince

of Persia next on this spotlight in our Kevin

Smith spotlight The next film up will be dogma

And then like I said, it's gonna be a few weeks

before we get to that because we have all of

the end of year and the 2018 beginning of year

stuff to get to next so we got some of the fun

Episodes that we do every year. Hopefully you

guys are looking forward to that Dan Matt Amanda

anything else that you want to say as far as

video game films or things in general? Are you

ready for your year -end list Amanda? You mean

am I ready to start looking at all this stuff

to do? We're still trying to squeeze in one or

two films we're trying to get him in under the

Behind the buzzer Dan. I know you have been hard

at work You've been watching probably more films

in the last month than Amanda and I caught in

like six months So how's that process going and

how's your list shaping up? Yeah, I like legitimately

I think it doubled the amount of movies I watched

in 2017 in December in January. Luckily I have

a lot of PTO time during that time so I was able

to catch up with a bunch. Pretty good. I still

have like two major ones. I still need to see

the shape of water and hopefully you're going

to see the post on Martin Luther King Day. But

doing really well. I'm trying not to watch too

much and overload myself and then like end up

like with like movie fatigue and you end up getting

confused with each other. things of that nature,

but I'm really trying to put my list together

and it's really hard. I'm trying to fit more

and more into 10, but that number won't budge.

You can only put 10 in that. It's not very forgiving.

Matt, I've got a question for you because one

of the other things we have coming up is our

box office predictions for 2018. Have you started

the research? Are you ready to take the crown

from one of us? No, I couldn't even name ten

movies coming out in 2018. I'm so behind Don't

worry, in a month's time you're going to be able

to name quite a few of them. That's where we're

setting the stage for 2018 coming up, but before

that we will do probably what we did last year.

We'll have some interesting top lists. We'll

have some awards that we give out. Try to keep

it a little bit more of a variety than just your

simple top five or top ten list. Look forward

to that. We'll also have some blog posts coming

out that Dan and I are working on behind the

scenes to do like what we normally do with our

genre films, our performances as far as actors.

actresses, our technical awards. We do that every

year, so that will be coming as well. So keep

your eyes peeled to the website and the Facebook

page as those come out. You'll get notice as

far as that goes. So that's it for this week.

End of the year. Next time, all of our awards.

So tune in then for another episode of The Cinema

Geeks. No shadows, no reflections here. Lying

cheek to cheek in your golden rays. Dissolving

some tragic -