Planet of the Apes Retrospective – Planet of the Apes (2001) Review

This is static when gear and I aren't fighting

bang babies. We like to listen to the geek cast

radio network Hello and welcome to episode 260

of the cinema geeks I am one of your cinema geeks

optimus solo and joining me as he always does

is the comic concierge Dan How you doing? I'm

doing well and and you can't tell but I'm definitely

in fully makeup for this for this Venture back

into the the ape world That is awesome Yeah,

I keep Dan keeps coming back, even though I keep

making him watch Planet of the Apes films. It's

actually going to apologize because I think I

was the person that floated the idea of doing

the Planet of the Apes. And I'm like, I owe Kevin

an apology because not to spoil my thoughts on

this, but we've watched some. You've had to rewatch

some movies. And yeah, so we'll get to it. But

my apologies. That's all right. I enjoy the franchise

overall. um there's definitely a few that i'll

probably never watch again but yeah i'm looking

forward to to some other ones that we still have

to come so yeah today we're talking more about

the planet of the apes uh we're kind of in that

weird middle limbo right like we've we've seen

the five originals and we still have the the

modern i guess quote unquote ones from the last

15 years to go and and before we do any of that

we have to get this like middle one out of the

way this this 2001 it's not part of either grouping

we have to talk about it so um before we get

to that though dan i know this has nothing to

do with planet of the apes but i know that science

fiction and fantasy fans will probably if they're

listening to anything that we're doing right

now they're listening to this And you've been

on a journey through another science fiction

franchise recently. I've been keeping up, Dan.

I've been I've been looking at all your review

scores and your write ups on Letterboxd. And

so I'm just wondering if you were willing to

share a little bit. Was this all first time watches

or was it rewatches? And kind of tell me a little

bit about your journey through the Star Trek

movie world. So, yeah, I don't. I don't even

know why. Honestly, I know it's the 60th anniversary

for Star Trek. I didn't do it just because of

that. But I was just... When I work, I work from

home. So it's nice to have movies I can have

in the background. So these are all rewatches

except for two of the next generation movies.

I never saw Insurrection or Nemesis. So those

were both first time watches for me. But I saw

all the other ones before. But I was like, I've

been a while. So let's watch some Star Trek films.

And I've only seen like a couple episodes of

the original series and a few of next gen. So

I am a Star Trek novice first per se, but I did

really generally like, I don't think, you know,

compared to the plane of the apes, I don't think

they have even like the worst Star Trek film.

I don't necessarily think is like awful per se.

I don't know how Star Trek fans feel about it,

but, but yeah, like I don't, I don't think my

overall, I don't maybe. Maybe for those that

hate the new movies, people may not like my rankings,

but went through them all. And for example, like

for me, I don't know what your rankings are,

but Star Trek Undiscovered Country, I felt like,

you know, it's my favorite of all them. And then

Star Trek 2, which I know is like universally

considered the best and I could see why. And

then I really like Star Trek Beyond. I think

it's the best out of all the... the new star

Trek movies and then first contact, which I like,

I think though, like I don't love the next generation

movies. Cause they don't, they don't feel like

movies all the time. Like, I feel like with,

with the original films, like it, like I felt

like they upgraded, like this feels like a movie

that not all the next generation ones feel like

cinematic. I do also like all like the, and then

after first contact, I have the star Trek, the

20. 2009 or whatever, the first J .J. Abrams

movie. And then Star Trek 4, which I know some

people love, some people don't. It's very comedic,

but I have a good time with it. And I think I

have Star Trek The Motion Picture next, which

I know a lot of people really don't like. I think

people call it too slow. I actually, I think

I like that more than most people. I don't know.

I just, and then I have, what is after that?

The Final Frontier, which I think, I know a lot

of people hate, hate that one. And I didn't hate

it. I didn't love it, but I thought there was

ideas behind it that like, I think on a rewatch,

I ended up liking it more than I remembered.

And then I have Generations, which I think is

fine. It's good. It's not great. Then Into Darkness

next, which I just feel it's very, there's elements

that are well done. It's just clearly like trying

to recreate something it didn't earn. So, and

then Insurrection. and the the final ones i'm

like i don't know they're kind of all close for

me it's like into darkness interaction which

ones i like and then star trek 3 i have as the

the lowest of the all the original films just

because i think it's just kind of dealing with

the hangover of the star trek 2 and doesn't necessarily

feel like it's its own movie that much and then

i have nemesis as the last just because like

i love tom hardy but i just i never really bought

him as a the clone for patrick stewart and without

that i don't know if that movie works very well

so yeah so the real truth then is that you saw

ricardo montalban in planet of the apes yeah

and you just wanted to like complete the journey

with him definitely i i was like i need some

more ricardo ricardo now i'm going to start watching

uh was it treasure island no i'm sure paradise

paradise island or whatever i forget the show

he was on I'll agree with whatever you say at

this point with the plane, the plane guy. Oh,

gotcha. So, yeah, I don't know. I, and so it

was, what's weird about it is kind of annoying

is I don't get like when you have a friend, even

with the planet of the apes movies are like this

too. It's like, okay, well they're all the same

like company. So they should all be on the same

service. And like, that's not the case. So that's

really annoying. Well, luckily a lot of them

are free on canopy. So that made it easy. I'm

curious, Dan, did this. You said you really haven't

watched much of any of the series, but this was

kind of a rewatch for most of the films. Did

it whet your appetite at all or get you any more

interested in watching any of the actual TV series?

Yeah, I think it does, actually. I'd be interested

in going back and watching, especially the original,

because I've not watched any of that. I've seen

more episodes of Next Generation. Especially

because I think especially the next generation

films I think assume you have more knowledge

of what happened within those universes compared

to like the original ones. They definitely feel

more like you were watching the seasons and then

they had like another story they wanted to tell

and so it was like almost could have been like

a little mini series or like an elongated episode.

You're right. They don't feel as cinematic and

they're more like extensions of not all of them

because some of them jump in time a little bit

but they feel like they're more like just a television

special almost i don't want to like degrade it

that much but like it's kind of like that a little

bit it's hard for me because the you know we

went through a an entire rewatch of all things

star trek or a first time watch so we did all

of the movies and then we decided to try to go

through all of the series which we haven't 100

completed we did watch all of Voyager and Deep

Space Nine and Enterprise and The Next Generation

and Discovery, Strange New Worlds. I think we

caught all of them. The one series that we weren't

able to make it through was the original. Is

it bad? I want to give it another shot. I don't

know if we just weren't in the right. There's

certain shows that, especially with my wife,

she's not huge on when there's certain treatment

of women. And things of that nature. And so that

definitely exists a lot. In the original Star

Trek. So I think maybe it wasn't a good one to

watch together. I do want to give it a shot again.

To watch it one more time. But I'm such a. Like

I grew up a huge Next Generation fan. It's probably

my favorite series overall. Out of all of them.

So it's hard for me to separate that. When I'm

watching the movies. And like judge the movies

unbiasedly. Or whatever that phrase is. Whatever

the right word I'm trying to look for. But I

do really. I think the original movies may be

better than the original series, if that makes

sense. I probably prefer the movies of the original

series, whereas the next generation, I prefer

the series over the movies. I could understand

that, sure. Especially since the Star Trek movies

came after the series was over, right? I think

that certainly helped it in that way they were.

relying on the show that was going on at the

same time compared to the next generation where

clearly like oh wait he doesn't have his visor

now like i don't know what happened there so

it there's a there's more uh you know more happening

in between movies compared to the the original

films yeah and the cast of next generation is

just ridiculous yeah definitely And that's how

much we loved Planet of the Apes. Okay, I guess

we have to talk about Planet of the Apes. I was

going to go into what I've been watching, Dan,

which I've been making my way through. For the

first time, I've been making my way through The

West Wing. Oh. See, you're watching Star Trek,

which is more something that's my jam, and now

I'm watching West Wing, which is definitely something

that you've... you've uh promoted a lot over

the years i believe if i'm if i'm remembering

right yeah west one is one of my all -time favorite

shows so hopefully i'm having fun with this so

far yeah i'm almost all the way through the first

season so okay um it's been a lot of fun yeah

let me know my favorite episode of all time is

two cathedrals which is the season's finale of

season okay i think that's okay season two i

was gonna say i'm coming up on the season finale

of one here i think any minute yeah they're all

uh they're yeah they're all it gets it kind of

goes a little bit downhill a bit when Aaron Sorkin

leaves. But it rebounds. And I think the last

two seasons end up being... I really like the

last season. It ends up being one of my favorite

seasons as well. Besides that, Dan, just to avoid

talking to Planet of the Apes a little bit longer,

I've gotten back on the train with trying to

tie up a few loose ends with Cary Grant. You

think when you've seen 47 films of an actor that

you're probably good. But I'm like, first of

all it's not 50 and like do i really want to

stop at 47 and so i'm trying to find like the

the problem is it's getting much harder to find

ones that are available um but i think i found

like three or four more that i can watch so i'm

gonna i'm gonna make my way through that i just

watched the uh the film called topper which uh

was a fun one and i and i got like three or four

more in the queue so i guess i'm gonna keep going

down that road i can't get enough carrie grant

so but anyways we're here to talk about something

that's not anything like that It's not like the

West Wing. It's not like Cary Grant. It's not

even like Star Trek. We're talking about the

2001 Planet of the Apes today. So I guess without

further ado, Dan, why don't you set the stage

for us? It's not very good. No, sorry. I'll get

to the facts. Do we have to? I guess we do as

we continue our Planet of the Apes retrospective

with a review of Planet of the Apes from 2001

directed by Tim Burton. The movie begins in 2029,

only three years from now, where astronaut Leo

Davidson, played by Mark Wahlberg, works aboard

a U .S. Air Force space station training chimpanzees

for space missions. During an experiment, one

of the chimps is sent through a mysterious electromagnetic

storm and disappears. Leo goes after him in a

small aircraft but is pulled into the storm and

he crash lands on a strange planet that looks

somewhat like Earth. Leo soon discovers something

shocking. Apes are the dominant intelligent species,

while humans are primitive, hunted, and treated

as slaves. He's captured by apes and brought

into their city. There he meets Ari, played by

Helen Barton Carter, a sympathetic chimpanzee

who believes humans deserve better treatment.

Leo also encounters the ruthless General Thade,

played by Tim Roth, who considers humans dangerous

animals. Leo is able to escape with the help

of Ari and travels towards a site he believes

may provide answers about where he is and how

he got home and hopefully meet up with some of

his crewmates. At that location, Leo discovers

the ruins of a space mission from his own time.

The wreckage reveals that the mysterious storm

transported them thousands of years into the

future and that the chimpanzees he originally

pushed to arrive on the planet long before him.

The ape civilization apparently developed from

those descendants, while the humans gradually

became subjugated. Lee eventually uses this ancient

space draft to return through the storm to Earth.

However, when he arrives, he discovers something

has gone terribly wrong. The Lincoln Memorial

has been replaced with a statue of General Thade,

and the police officers, firefighters, and other

people around him are apes. The film ends and

this deliberately ambiguous twist suggesting

that Leo's actions may have somehow altered Earth's

history, allowing the apes to become the dominant

species of his own planet. The special effects

makeup legend Rick Baker was responsible for

creating the film's apes. He had special affections

for the original film and found that the opportunity

was too difficult to turn down. The principal

actors could spend three to four hours in makeup.

Some began getting ready as early as 2 or 3 a

.m. in the morning. The performers didn't just

put on makeup. They pretended to be monkeys.

They underwent movement training to develop how

to move and have ape -like behavior. Movement

coach Terry Notary helped teach the cast and

extras how to move, stand, run, and interact

like different types of apes. Writer William

Broyles Jr. developed an ambitious story that

explored the ape's planet's history, social classes,

religions, and treatment of humans, but the studio

wanted to keep the production under control.

Lawrence Conyer and Mark Rosenthal were brought

in to revise the screenplay with changes being

made even as production was getting underway.

The studio was determined to meet that July 2001

release date. And I guess... they did accomplish

that, so kudos to them. Maybe they would have

been better off just making a documentary about

the making of this rather than the movie itself

because it's far more fascinating. In the early

90s, Oliver Stone became involved as a producer

with Philip Noyce attached to direct and Arnold

Schwarzenegger set to star. Screenwriter Terry

Hayes wrote a script that was dramatically different

from the 1968 movie and Burton's eventual film.

After the Stone project collapsed, Chris Columbus

of Home Alone fame took over as director with

Sam Hamm who had written Batman's writing the

screenplay. James Cameron became involved while

making Titanic. He was interested in writing

and producing, although he didn't intend to direct.

Cameron reportedly wanted to make a movie that

was very different in direction, incorporating

elements of both the original as well as Beneath

Planet of the Apes. Peter Jackson was even briefly

considered for the movie in the mid -90s. Fox

gave Jackson an opportunity to develop his own

concept, but that fell apart because other opportunities

like King Kong and, of course, the Lord of the

Rings trilogy. took up his time. So after all

that, they were eventually able to make this

movie, but with mixed results. It was a commercial

success, but critics and fans generally thought

the movie was very disappointing, especially

compared to the original. It cost around $100

million to make and did make $362 million worldwide.

There was a planned sequel, but because of the

reception, that was eventually canned and we

got the reboot, which we'll talk about next week.

But what do Kevin and I think? Back to us to

discuss. All right, so those are the facts for

the 2001 Tim Burton joint Planet of the Apes

starring Marky Mark himself. Dan, you had seen

this once before? Yeah, I actually saw it in

theaters back in the day. Saw it in theaters.

Okay, and now was this the first time you've

rewatched it since then? I don't, probably not.

I probably saw it like on TV or something like

that, but I think it's the first time I've ever

sat down to specifically watch it with a plan

of watching it and making it to the end. Okay.

Nearly positive about that. So we have Tim Burton.

We have Tim Roth. We have Helena Bonham Carter,

Michael Clark Duncan, Paul Giamatti, Mark Wahlberg,

Chris Christopher. We have a lot of people, right?

And we've clearly jumped. in time when it comes

to movie making visual effects and all of that

type of stuff you know we've gone from what the

original was 1968 we're now in 2001 so we're

good like 32 33 years later so was trying to

reinvent planet of the apes the right decision

or should the remake have leaned harder into

what made the original unique well i think making

i think as we'll get to making planet of the

apes can be a good decision i think this film

and i don't know if i'll get to it but it has

like a insane production history like it went

through so many different directors so many people

starring in it it's one of those movies that

they were trying to get remade forever and which

is never necessarily a great sign because you

know anything that has that long of production

history and it's one of those things where i

feel like they're just getting it out to finally

finally do it and like on the premise I think

the idea of a Tim Burton doing Planet of the

Apes I think makes sense I'm kind of would be

interested in that I don't know what you think

about Tim Burton as a director as a whole but

there's things he's done that I quite like I

do actually really like Batman 89 and Batman

Returns I haven't seen Batman Returns in a long

time but I've watched Batman 89 a few times within

the last few years I still really enjoy it and

I like think his his work his aesthetic works

well within that world so okay like he's been

successful with a major blockbuster before edward

scissorhands was great edward scissorhands yeah

uh it's his like the work i know he didn't direct

nightmare before christmas but i think he'll

produce it and i love ed wood he's a very but

there's other movies he's done which i've not

been a fan of and but i i get the idea of like

okay like let's see if he can bring some of that

same magic to the world of planet of the apes

and i think this is a movie that even like i

i don't know if like actually for the first time

i ended up like listening to a lot of behind

the scenes like making of because i was intrigued

to see what people thinking at the time and then

also like looking at interviews of some of the

cast including mark warburg afterwards and i

think it's a movie that feels like It has really

no identity, ultimately. There's some elements

of Tim Burton, mostly in the visuals and somewhat

within the world, but as a story, it's just kind

of a generic action movie, right? This isn't

a horrible movie. We went through some of the

previous films, and we saw just... movies that

were trying but clearly didn't necessarily have

the budget to maybe except for the second plan

of the movies um not that wasn't just a budget

issue but like you know they had they barely

had a budget to make a ham sandwich let alone

to make a movie uh this money was not the issue

here no identity it's heartless it and partially

because like based upon some of those interviews

like it seems like the tim burton wasn't allowed

to be fully Tim Burton you know there's still

things that I think are kind of impressive about

it like which we can talk about I don't think

it's a complete like order of failure on every

level but it's the worst kind of bad where it's

just kind of it's just kind of boring it's fine

it's inoffensive it doesn't say anything I think

of any merit like it takes away so much of the

core of what brought Planet of the Apes to be

such an iconic franchise and movie in the first

place and you're just left with a movie of like

no significance in a lot of ways so i think that's

why i think that's like the worst kind of bad

but it's just it's hollow and i think that's

definitely the case for this i think and we've

seen in a couple of the other ones that we've

already covered but i think it's definitely kind

of exemplified here that it loses the trick that

is so fascinating about the original planet of

the apes a little bit of a couple of the other

ones and then the modern ones which i know we

haven't gotten to yet but like the crazy part

about the good planet of the apes is how you

take this completely fantasy sci -fi adventure

setting and like setup scenario with apes and

people that seems like it should never work in

a million years and you don't but it's not about

that spectacle like that is the backdrop of like

serious issues being discussed, investigated,

bantered back and forth, like debated and, and

all of these different stuff. Like the, the,

that's like the, the crazy thing that works so

well when planet of the apes is, is doing what

it's supposed to be doing or what we've seen

it do is like when it does this like bizarre

setup that can then say so much that can resonate

with like, the human condition and all the different

things that i'm sure we'll get we'll get talking

about a lot more here in the next few episodes

but this one forgets all of that like this is

like i fear that this is like what ai movies

will be like like if and when we get them and

hopefully we don't or hopefully it can be delayed

or hopefully nobody goes and watches them or

whatever the case may be but like i feel like

that's what this would be like like it's taken

away that might be a little bit too harsh but

like it takes away all of the interesting parts

of what could be discussed and delved into and

it turns into just like it's almost a heartless

like action sequence or chase sequence that like

that's all we're gonna get and it's like i don't

know like it reminds me of some of the video

game films we watched in a way that it just like

there's nothing to it like and i also think it

shows that one thing i really now appreciate

about the originals And I'm also obviously going

to appreciate about the modern ones is I think

they were both very smart in not casting known

people as the apes. Like I get the visuals are

30 years better in this one and the makeup and

all these other stuff. But to me, it's very distracting

when I can clearly tell that that is Michael

Clark Duncan, or I can clearly tell this, tell

this is Paul Giamatti and makeup. those two especially

were like really stood out as like this is could

you have made them look a little less like they

actually not that they look like they like they

do in real life but there's enough there that

you're like no i can totally see paul giamatti

there like i think that's a bad choice yeah it's

like it's like when they get stars to be voice

actors of characters just it's like why do you

need although i i mean i think the performing

i think paul giamatti I think they do good. Yeah.

I think they perform well. I just think it's

so distracting to like do that. Whereas we don't

get that in the original one, really like now.

And we don't get that in the modern ones. I don't

think like maybe I'll be wrong when I rewatch

them, but most of that is mocap and different

things. And you're not, people know who Andy

circus is, right? You don't, you don't really

hear his voice outside of his role in the like

MC movies. I don't know if he talked, I would

know, know it. Right. No, 100%. And I think the

other thing that kind of struck me off on this

one, and they kind of did this a little in the

original ones, too. Why, when they do the female

apes, do they have to, like, style their hair

and do all this other kind of stuff? They're

trying to make them sexy apes, I guess. I don't

know. It's so weird. Some people are into that.

I don't know. It's so weird. I'm like, why did

the ape have a hairdryer and a curler or a straightener

or whatever is going on here? Why do they have

all this stuff? I don't know. So, like, even

though the visual should be... better and i i

guess in some ways they are like some of it still

like didn't seem like it had like the magic of

of what we got in at least the original one um

and a little bit like obviously diminishing returns

as you get less and less budget through the original

five films yeah a hundred percent but like it

didn't it didn't do enough to like no amount

of visuals was going to take away from the fact

that like you said this movie has no heart of

soul i should i was watching some of like the

behind the scenes and the big thing they kept

saying is something like a lot of the people

like they got this like okay it's like make sure

you sell this this isn't a remake it's not a

sequel it's it's tim burton's take on the material

and i'm like i don't think we really got that

i guess the helmets look a little different but

i don't if i didn't know tim burton directed

this and you said like hey who are some people

you thought maybe directed this tim burton wouldn't

necessarily be on that list compared to like

other movies where you feel like he has a bit

more of his flair. So I don't even necessarily

want to say the failure of this is necessarily

on him, outside of the fact that you mentioned

how it's basically action sequences, but the

action sequences aren't even very interesting.

They're not well shot, or the chase through the

village or whatever, it's more cartoonish and

not necessarily a good way. And then that final

action sequence is kind of... kind of just dull

it just doesn't really make sense because like

how are these humans at all being able to like

go toe -to -toe with these apes that doesn't

make sense necessarily at all but whatever uh

yeah whoever wrote it too because it's like you

clearly have seen the original one because you're

doing things you're putting lines in this movie

from the originals with just trying to invert

it that's the other thing yeah you have the opening

sequel or the i don't know if it's oh yeah the

opening sequence where you're kind of the humans

are going through the brush and whatnot and the

apes are hunting them down just like we got in

the first one so like you're doing these things

that are like acknowledging that you're aware

of what the first movie was but then you don't

give us anything like there's nothing about religion

or science there's nothing about prejudice not

a little bit but not much there's nothing really

about humanity's self -destruction or realizing

that we did this to ourselves. There's nothing

about civilized versus uncivilized really in

any type of meaningful way. You saw a couple

cliff notes from the first one, but you didn't

understand why the first one worked. I don't

know if it's the director's fault as much as

the screenplay and the writing. I know Tim Burton

was rushed and they were trying to get this through

and I know he doesn't like the film. like i read

somewhere where he was even trying to sneak out

of like the premieres because he couldn't stand

it um you know mark walberg who i guess was like

super excited to do a tim burton film like he

passed up oceans 11 to do this and like signed

on without reading anything just because he wanted

to do something with tim burton so bad but like

even him afterwards was like yeah we f that up

like it was it wasn't a good movie and he and

he is he is not he is bad in this. Like, I don't

hate, like, Mark Wahlberg can be a good actor.

Like, great in The Departed, but in this, he's

so, again, talking about lifeless, he's lifeless.

You know, with the original, you know, Charlton

Heston was maybe a little overacting. He went

the opposite way as much as possible where he's

underacting. There's, like, the sequence where

he's, like, giving that speech that's supposed

to be the rah -rah speech. It's so disinterested.

It's like, he's got things to do, so he's just

gonna do this real quick. You mean it didn't

remind you of Braveheart at all? No, or Lord

of the Rings or anything like that. Aragorn,

he is not. And I don't know, even the ape characters,

you get a little bit with the two that are...

You have Thade, who, whatever, but he's almost

like a dick -dastardly villain in this. I can't

tell if Tim Roth's performance is amazing or

awful. I think it's both. He, I mean, give him

credit. Like, he went for it. Like, he clearly

lived with apes for a while. Is this good or

is this really, is this funny? Ironically, I

can't tell. And I don't know. I still don't know.

And then they try to do the thing with, like,

the Colonel Attar, Michael Clarke Duncan's character.

And then who is the good version that's kind

of up against him in this? I can't remember.

Kroll is, I think, his name, right? Yeah. and

like they kind of try to do something a little

bit with that but it's just nothing's enough

and i i don't know like it just is like a vessel

it's like a a shell of a movie yeah like i i

like the idea of like oh it's not how it's okay

let's circumvent expectations they're not on

earth they're actually not on earth it comes

from it's everything from this um this ship although

Where did they get the horses? Like, were there

horses on the ships? Did they have horses on

the ships? But, yeah. And then with, like, the

whole ape community, again, like, we don't get

much there. Like, they have a Senate, but, like,

we don't get really much understanding of what

that world is like, what their community is like.

I mean, we know that they hunt humans and things

like that. The more you think about it, the less

things make sense. Like also in this, the humans

talk, they just normally talk, which I don't

mind if they're changing things, but then I also

feel like if they're talking, they can communicate.

Then the apes thinking that they are less than

intellectually doesn't make sense as much. And

like everything that they took from the first

one felt forced in a way. Like you have the line

where we just going to invert the humans and

the apes and just say it the other way around.

You have like the, we read a couple letters on

a dirty spaceship or whatever it might be. That's

going to like lead us to a different word that

actually means something else. Like that's already

been used. Like there's always like the quote

unquote twist ending, which we can get into,

I guess in a second, but like all of it is so

like, hey remember that first one we're just

like that it's like no you're nothing nothing

like that like you're trying to be that on like

a few superficial things and you've forgotten

all of the heart of the first one yeah what did

you think of the the in the the ape that i can't

remember what his name is but they refer to him

as simos but we know it's not because it's with

marky mark at the beginning pericles i think

is his name yeah and he uh he shows back up um

doesn't get some good treatment from uh general

fade there uh what did you think of kind of that

whole sequence like the i guess the the reveal

of who they've been worshiping and kind of the

last little end with the quote -unquote twist

i don't like again i don't mind the idea of them

like not being on earth some of it doesn't make

sense in the sense of like It seems like the

apes turned on them and attacked them and killed

them all. Then why are there still humans, I

guess? I mean, I guess some got away. One thing

I did struggle with was understanding Mark Wahlberg's

connection to that ape because it seemed like

he didn't really even like the ape. Then he goes

out in space to try to save him. How did they

explain away Pericles? i don't know like if you

try to actually make sense of everything that's

happening in the last act of this film i think

your head would explode yeah because i mean you

have like michael clark's dunking character who's

like oh now everything i believe was alive but

like how did he make that leap because it was

very quickly it was very quickly like because

would he because technically what he was prophesied

kind of came true but it was actually i don't

know yeah it's it's and certain things if you

try to like follow the threads you're like well

that doesn't make sense because then this that's

not how that would have worked and it's like

really hard to follow and like even tim burton

i think said like he has no idea what the ending

means or yeah that doesn't think it makes sense

either you just kind of like it's like it's up

to you to figure it out i don't hate the ending

it being like it doesn't not making sense i'm

going to this world and i've heard some theories

where it's like oh somehow they got there first

and he helped me shape the world in an image

or whatever i i don't mind the idea maybe like

the idea of like leaving off on a cliffhanger

that is like okay we'll figure this out later

um you know certainly we've seen that in the

franchise before when they blow up the earth

and they go back to it so i i don't mind it not

necessarily making sense because i think you

could find ways of doing it at this i just think

it it's just representative of the fact that

With the first film, The Twist, it being Earth,

I think hammers home much of what that film was

getting to and what it was saying. And Tim Burton

saying, well, it's not supposed to make sense.

I think, if anything, hammers home the fact that

much of this film doesn't make sense. Their endings

of this and the original are very indicative

of how successful the films are as a whole. I

think I could have dealt with the ending and

what they were doing with it if they hadn't involved

another monument. That's true. that's kind of

where i was like okay you're just literally taking

one more thing that you could from the original

and trying to like spin it to your own yeah yeah

i don't know if i dig that maybe you went on

a painting you could have gone to the music make

a little bit different something all right anything

we missed here on this uh intriguing conversation

went into the ape stand what anything you anything

you really like did you feel like the visuals

at all were better or i mean i think special

effect the makeup is amazing like the the makeup

effects are like kudos to the people and kudos

to like the actors that went through all that

because they're in makeup for hours upon hours

and i think it does look convincing and the way

that the actors would like you know be able to

act apish i guess i don't know in in in the sense

of unlike the original films where they just

kind of acted like humans but i want to give

you know certainly good credit And I did like,

even though you can tell it's Paul Giamatti,

I do think at least he was entertaining in parts

where the movie wasn't. And Michael Clarke Duncan,

I think, sold his role real well. And even Helen

Bonham Carter, who, of course, is like a staple

for a lot of... She disappeared the most into

her role. She was the least obvious one. Because

she's like... her i think of her as like you

know inherit harry potter and like you know being

here she was very just well doing yeah and like

in yeah so that's what i'm saying it's not without

merit per se but it's those it's mostly on the

technical level that i think it's that it works

but everything else is kind of just it's ultimately

forgettable and that's you know i think I think

that you could see why everyone's like, all right,

well, let's forget this ever happened and try

again. And I think that was the right choice.

Yeah. Luckily, they got the chance to after all

the turmoil that it took to get this one even

made. You know, it's impressive that the other

one was able to be made. And thank goodness it

was. Before doing any type of research or looking

at anything of this film, did you remember or

know that Charlton Heston and Linda Harrison

were in this film? I remember that Charlton Heston

was like that. I did remember. I remember that

scene. Yeah, that I remembered. I forgot when

that was in it. But yeah, I remember the Charlton

Heston scene. I had no clue until I just maybe

I did when I watched it originally, but I was

just like looking up the research. I was like,

wait a second. They were where they were. What?

Who? When? I guess it's interesting that they

both appeared. So. For a little fun little trivia,

I guess. If you do like trivia, I mean, you can

go down a rabbit hole with this one and see all

the different people that were going to be cast

or not going to be cast or this, that, and the

other. I think it gets as strange as Tim Burton

considering Pee Wee Herman to be like a Cornelius

character or something. But then neither the

actor or the character shows up. But there's

a lot of people that were definitely rumored

or attached to this. directors actors actresses

there's lots of trivia about this like tumultuous

journey that it took for this film to be made

uh you're right like the documentary would probably

be somewhat interesting but unfortunately it

doesn't end with a uh a memorable product at

the end if anything just maybe on the plan of

the apes franchise as a whole i mean it's got

a pretty long history and so but yeah this is

clearly uh part of the history it would like

to forget yeah so dan we're going to turn our

attention now to the next sequence which is the

the modern films of of this franchise and i know

we've talked about it a few times i don't think

you've seen the final film that came out uh in

2024 kingdom i believe you haven't seen yeah

that's but you've seen all of the other ones

have you seen all the other ones multiple times

like how does that all work for you Yeah, I've

at least seen the first two multiple times. I

don't think I've seen the third one multiple

times, but the first two I have. Okay. Are you

looking forward now after you've seen all these

other ones to watch them again? Definitely, because

I know people mentioned that there are different

references and Easter eggs to some of the original

movies, so I'm curious to see if I will pick

those up now, considering we have gone through

it again. excited for that and also just excited

to go back to them because i did really enjoy

them uh but because of the failure of this one

and not really liking it i remember like i just

when they mentioned that oh rise of the planet

of the apes is coming out i'm like oh that's

stupid like why bring that franchise back and

didn't bother and then like started hearing rumblings

like no actually the movie's really good so you

know that's it's ever since then it's like where

i it's it's a lesson i learned where it's like

just don't dismiss something because of the premise

like I thought the idea of bringing back Planet

of the Apes was a bad idea, but then I ended

up with that being one of my favorite modern

franchises. So there you go. Yeah, it's definitely

interesting because it was one of those franchises

that I had dismissed from the get -go until this

2011 film came out. And just something about

it must have scratched an itch or made me interested

and kind of went from there. I don't see films

multiple times very often, but I have seen Rise

of the Planet of the Apes. At least three times.

If not four or five times. I'm trying to remember.

Because there was one time. When the third one

of this series was coming out. When War was coming

out. I believe. Where the theater was doing.

A back to back to back showing. So you could

go in and watch Rise. Watch Dawn. And then there

was the premiere of War. And I did that along

the same time. As I did something with the Teenage

Mutant Ninja Turtles. And one of those two. That

was a back to back type thing. the first film

didn't play but i can't remember that was turtles

or if that was this one where the first movie

didn't play and they're like we'll just watch

something else and then come back for the other

two and i might watch something that's what the

exact same run time that's starting right now

that has seats available yeah that's that's not

gonna work but yeah i've seen this one at minimum

three if not like i said four or five times and

uh but i'm interested to see it again and and

kind of it's been quite a few years since i saw

it the last time so it's probably been at least

10 years i would say um since i've seen it so

i'm looking forward to this next journey and

kind of going through these four films and uh

i think there's a fifth one supposed to come

out next year so i don't know we'll have to we

might have to come back to this at some point

dan if they if that actually ends up being a

thing i think as long as i'm supposed to be released

in may no may i'm supposed to be released in

may of 2027 but we'll see it could never happened

you never know so next time it's rise of the

planet of the apes i'm looking forward to getting

into this version of it and kind of dissecting

it a little bit more with you for sure um dan

how can people reach out and leave comments for

us or get in touch with anything related to the

show um you can search comic concierge i'm on

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show you can find it on comic uh the on facebook

and and on instagram at cinema geek cast uh podcast

and you should be able to find it there all right

you can search me out at optimist solo just leave

comments wherever you want and we will try to

get a reply to you as fast as we see them we

always enjoy interacting with everybody that's

listening so looking forward to doing that and

we're also looking forward to turning the page

into this modern series of planet of the apes

so that does it for this episode tune in next

time for another chance to listen to more of

the cinematic