Batman Forever Review

BOOM! Can I persuade you to take a sandwich with

you, sir? I'll get drive -through. Bruce Wayne.

In the flesh. Gonna need that handbag. Yes. My

invention beams any TV signal directly into the

human brain. Mind manipulation, tampering with

people's brain waves, it... It just raises too

many questions. I would send you a riddle. The

Riddler. I will help you solve the greatest riddle

of all. Who is Batman? Look. My place. Midnight.

Cheers. Eyes hold the signal, sir. I've left

Wayne Enterprises en route to the Batcave. All

is ready, sir. Let's start this party with a

bang! This was good. His was bad. The difference?

Showmanship. I sent the signal. You called me

here for this? The Bat -Signal is not a beeper.

We could give it a try. I'll bring the wine.

Or do I need skin -tight vinyl and a whip? Like

the jacket? It keeps me safe when I'm jogging

at night. I need a name. Batboy, Nightwing. What's

a good sidekick name? Help me. Alright, train

me. Let me be your partner. You want to be close,

but you won't let me near. I'm a part of this

whether you like it or not. Hello and welcome

to the 27th episode of the MWIRE movie we can

review. Today we are continuing the DC Spotlight

series with Batman Forever. This will be volume

1 of the DC Spotlight. I am your host TFG1Mike

and I am joined with special guest Mike the Birdman

Dodd. Hello sir. Hey, how's it going? It's going.

And David Double D Dennis joins us once again.

Hello. Hey. Yes, I am here and I am not Batman.

That's right. I'm Spartacus what? Oh, you're

not the goddamn Batman That's right. I'm the

goddamn Goku. Anyway, move it on if I ever get

a chance to interview Kevin Conroy That will

be one thing that I will hopefully get him to

say is I am the goddamn Batman. I Think I would

kill for that uh... you know we are continuing

our uh... dc spotlight here on him wire with

batman forever uh... there's just been a crap

load going on with me uh... you know running

a podcasting network while i enjoy podcasting

but you know i i i've said since the beginning

since we started this whole network saying here

at the cast radio it's like holy crap what the

hell did i get myself into running for shows

at once it sucks yes it does now you know the

stress that i go through on a daily basis I think

that's why we're trying to cut back as well to

trying to kind of streamline our content on Twig.

In essence, less is more. Right, and I mean the

thing is, you know, once some of our shows like

the Secret Origins podcast which just launched

and the Beast Unleashed podcast and Tooncast,

once those end because those shows will have

a definite end, I'm just going to stick to Tooncast

and M -Wire and maybe one other show, but I will

never do for it once ever again. The point of

our network is that we have varying shows on

varying topics, so we don't just throw it all

together in one show, which is probably what

we should have done, but I don't know. Whatever,

anyway. So Mike, what's been going on with you

this week? Well, this week I've been doing the

whole radio gig thing, as you can imagine. I

was interviewed recently on Talk 820 about the

iPad, or as I call it, the world's stupidest

invention and uh... they go in the school doing

that going to be visiting my friend down in dallas

in a month which or not not next week that actually

should be tremendously cool to be flying i think

i'm flying delta i don't know as long as my ass

fits in the seat who cares um... and yeah that's

what i've been doing pretty much school and getting

ready to go what about you dave what have you

been up to the last time we talked to you was

on the uh... hulk episode when we were doing

the marvel spotlight I don't know, recently I've

just been really busy trying to kind of handle

twig responsibilities. Yeah, you're more or less

our new ops guy. Yeah, I'm kind of becoming the

human resource guy and just trying to get together

some policies and show formats and all that behind

the scenes crap that no one really cares about.

Paperwork, in other words. Yeah. So I've been

really busy this week. And then after this, me

and Mike have to go watch another Uwe Boll film

for our Uwe Boll episode coming up on Friday.

Yep. Which will be reviewed probably next Wednesday.

The man that takes video games and essentially

takes giant craps on them and then calls it a

film. Yeah. It's true. It's pretty freaking terrible.

Yes. Well, this actually it's funny because of

weird scheduling conflicts and I wasn't able

to get not for this episode but just because

of scheduling conflicts for this episode and

the next episode which will be Batman and Robin

both of these episodes will air this coming Saturday.

Wow! Yeah, I'm recording this one. I watched

the movie for this yesterday. We're recording

it right now. After I do this Have to do post

-production on this episode and then I have to

watch Batman and Robin at four o 'clock in the

morning To record it at 1030 tomorrow morning

Whatever so um I'm trying to think we won't going

to now. Oh, yeah, you're going to hear one of

these songs from the soundtrack As I said before,

we are going to be continuing our Batman coverage

with Batman Forever, which is a 1995 superhero

film directed by Joel Schumacher and produced

by Tim Burton. It is the third installment of

the Batman film series and stars Val Kilmer as

Batman. The plot focuses on Batman trying to

stop Two -Face and the Riddler. Did you guys

see this in theaters, Mike? When did you first

see this? uh... i actually saw this in theaters

i remember i think it really came out in june

of ninety -five am i right june of july so it

was summer at the end of summer time i actually

the main reason i remember that is my grandmother

with on my grades seven field goddard seven rate

whatever and we went to the jail And I remember

going to see this movie not too long afterwards

because they had the really cool fancy mugs you

could get at the time that were fully glass.

There was like Batman, the Riddler, Robin and

all that. And I remember there being some kind

of a special sandwich at McDonald's. Man, you

know what's weird? I associate Batman with food.

And I don't know, this was the last Batman movie

I saw in theaters that actually had me excited

before the Dark Knight. What about you, Dave?

Uh, I was... How old would I have been? I was

like seven when this came out, actually. I think

I saw this after the video came out, which they

took a lot longer to come out back in the 90s.

And my cousin got this on VHS and I watched it

over at his house. And so this would have been

probably early 1996. And it was the first Batman

film I ever watched. And I still have fond memories

of being over there, sitting on his couch watching

Batman forever with him for the first time. And

I just thought it was really cool. I don't know.

I guess this movie is definitely aimed at a younger

audience of kids under 13, I guess. And it just

kind of struck a chord with me because I was

definitely the target audience for this. Yeah,

I just looked it up on IMDB. was in theaters

that premiered June 16th, 95. Yep, I remember

seeing it then, during the summer. It's kind

of funny, Dave, that you say that it took a...

I mean, it did take a brighter tone than the

two previous films, but that it's more kid -friendly?

I don't think so. Because I'm sorry, Nicole Kidman

in that black dress, holy crap, I was not thinking

I want to go play action figure. I was thinking

something totally different. But you don't, I

don't know, when you're a kid, you don't really

notice that as much. I did. It's weird. But I'm

horny. Oh, yeah. I don't know. When I watched

it, I didn't notice the Nicole Kidman sexy outfits

or the fact that the bat suit had nipples or

all the kind of hidden homoerotic undertones

of the film that you notice a lot more when you

get older. All you really see is, you know, Batman's

fighting people and beating people up and...

There's action and adventure and that's all you

really care about or that's all I really cared

about when I was a kid I didn't even really care

about girls until I was like Probably 12 13.

I mean a kind of there were girls I had crushes

on and stuff like that But I wasn't like oh my

god Nicole Kim and so hot see I was Came out

and holy crap. I had Throughout the entire time.

I was at one of my foster homes. I had I had

the Batman Forever Nicole Kidman poster and a

poster of Alicia Silverstone petting a bunny

and I don't know why, but that's kind of funny.

Shut up! But yeah, as soon as I saw the poster

with Nicole Kidman, I'm like, oh my god, I gotta

have that. I don't even know what to say to you,

Mike, because I know what you did to that poster.

No, I did not do that to that poster. No, shut

up, Mike. I did not. Don't even go there. No,

no, no. I can see your attraction, though. Nicole

Kidman was pretty flippin' hot. And Alicia Silverstone.

This is probably your hottest role, actually.

she had not this good in i'd like shot she doesn't

want you look pretty good in uh... uh... we want

to reach and invasion kind of it but in this

one she was that cartoon fact the work it's a

boring not unbelievable but just enough you know

i mean like she is she looked amazing in that

movie she never looked better i think that's

one thing about the batman movies pretty much

all the women in them right from uh... from Kate

or I'm Kim Basinger in the first film all the

way to poison ivy in the last one you know she

did look kind of goofy. Yeah but she was still

kind of hot in a weird sort of way I don't know.

She looked like she was drunk throughout that

entire movie but she really did she had a really

freaky look on her face. way anyway okay I'm

done talking I think that's probably the most

attractive have been to Uma Thurman as well except

maybe in Kill Bill Kill Bill for sure only because

she had a sword I liked her in I mean we're kind

of getting off topic here but I liked Uma Thurman

in Paycheck with Ben Affleck that was a good

flick but anyway that's another whole other story

but yeah Michael Kidman was hot as hell in this

Dave, why don't you summarize the plot for us?

Okay, so basically Batman Forever opens with

Batman getting all his gear ready. We see an

amazing shot of his ass, which is at least 30

seconds longer in Batman and Robin. But anyways,

he goes out. We find out he has to fight Two

-Face, who's basically holding this... Bank vault

kind of thing for hostage or something. I'm not

even sure what exactly what he's doing But he

has like a bank vault that's filled with acid

and he's gonna kill the tank guard guy that man

comes to the rescue and Later on we were introduced

to the character of Edward Bigma who later becomes

the Riddler because he's basically has this invention

that can Kind of take TV and bring it to life

almost like 3D, which is kind of a weird foreshadowing

of the future 3D TVs that are coming out now.

But Bruce Wayne is like, it's too risky, we can't

do this, and so he's like, screw you, I hate

you, but he's kind of obsessed with Bruce Wayne

at the same time. Again, home movie erotic undertones.

So he ends up killing his supervisor and then

he becomes the Riddler and starts sending all

these Riddles to Bruce Wayne's house. Meanwhile,

Bruce Wayne is seeing a psychiatrist played by

the ever so sexy Nicole Kidman as we were talking

about earlier who plays Dr. Chase Meridian who

is kind of torn between her love for Batman and

her love for Bruce Wayne at the same time and

also Two -Face ends up killing Robin's family

in an attempt to make Batman expose himself so

that he can get his revenge on Batman or whatever.

And Bruce Wayne is like in the crowd of the circus.

He's trying to yell out, I'm Batman, but everyone's

too loud. No one can hear him. So all of Dick

Grayson's family ends up dying, unfortunately,

and then Batman kind of adopts him. And then

he ends up finding out a secret and then trying

to become his partner. And then later on in the

film, what's her name, Two -Face and Riddler

invade this party where Batman is... or Bruce

Wayne is one of the guests and then he comes

back as Batman but then he ends up getting his

ass kicked more or less and then Robin comes

to the rescue and I guess to summarize all this

it kind of leads to the the climax where Batman

and Robin have to go to Two -Face and Riddler's

evil lair where Robin and Chase Meridian are

both captured and Batman has to Basically, as

the Green Goblin says in Spider -Man, you never

know when a villain is going to come around with

a sadistic choice. So he has to choose which

one he wants to save when they drop both of them

to their deaths. And then, yeah, I don't know

if I want to give away the ending. It came out

in 1995, so I'm sure it's not a big deal. But,

I don't know, spoiler alert, Two -Face dies,

and then Riddler goes to Arkham Asylum, and Chase

finds out who Batman is, and uh... I guess they

all live happily ever after, except for Riddler

in two ways. You know, this is the first one

out of the entire Beckham films that they showed

Arkham. They never showed Arkham before this

one. That's true, and it's interesting that the

doctor who runs Arkham Asylum is named Dr. Burton,

which is an obvious reference to Tim Burton,

who directed the first two films, and then later

on becomes... the dude who creates Bane in the

last movie, which was kind of retarded. But yeah,

actually there's a deleted scene on the DVD as

well where it shows Two -Face escaping from Arkham,

but they show Dr. Burton in Arkham Asylum and

he goes up to Two -Face's cell and then he finds

out that Two -Face has escaped. It's kind of

an interesting deleted scene. There's actually

a lot of really good deleted stuff from this

movie. I think the original cut was over two

and a half hours long. There's just a whole bunch

of stuff that was cut out. A lot of the deleted

scenes really get into Bruce Wayne's character

and his motivation. It's almost unfortunate that

they were cut. in favor of more scenes of Jim

Carrey being crazy. Yeah, because I think with

all the deleted stuff it basically made this

a more serious film. This might have been better

than Batman Return had they included these deleted

scenes. It's a cool character study. I think

personally I like this movie a little bit better

than Batman Returns. Not really for the plot,

but just because of what they did with Batman.

They actually examine his character more. They

go back into his past and you see more of his

motivations and stuff like that. Whereas in Batman

Returns, Batman is barely in it. And I think

I have more fun watching this one than in Batman

Returns where it's basically just Penguin is

really horny the whole time. And his goal is

to get laid and be angry at Batman for no reason.

You know... Okay, I know that there were three

years between Returns and Forever. Wow, I guess

Bruce brought in some some wreckers to get to

take down all those light mirrors to reflect

the bat signal. Oh, yeah. Well, there's the whole

like thing was completely redesigned. It's almost

barely a sequel to the last one. I mean, the

only things that kind of hold it together is

A, they reference Catwoman once in this movie.

B, it has Pat Hingle and Michael Goff as Commissioner

Gordon and Alfred. And I don't know, you can

tell it's still part of the same series, but

they redesigned all of Gotham again. It has this

kind of weird Tokyo neon look, which is almost

too obtrusive, I find. I think it doesn't feel

like Gotham. I think the first Batman got it

the best in terms of the design of Gotham, and

I think that movie actually won an Academy Award

for best set design, and deservedly so, because

they just perfectly nailed the look of Gotham

with all these sets that they had. But with this

film, it was just too bright and too kind of

MTV -ish. But again, I think I had more fun watching

this one than I did watching Returns, although

I'd have to say The original 89 Batman is still

my favorite, but this one's probably second for

me. See, for me, there are a lot of things I

like about this one, and there are some things

that I, you know, whatever. One thing I believe

I posted on Twitter and Facebook, you know, you

said earlier about Homoerotic with Nigma and

Wayne, it's like, holy crap, he's stalking him.

He's like, I have the slip. You know, I've got

it framed or something, it's like, oh my god,

man. Yeah, I guess like pictures of him all over

his wall. It's a total man crush. I never really

noticed that when I was a kid. Yeah, same here.

Until I got older and I was like, holy crap,

this guy is creepy, like he is really a man crush

on this guy. And we should note that there's

a... I don't think, because we don't watch that

many films for M -Wire that have Ed Begley Jr.

to have an Ed Begley Jr. count, but this one,

ding, Ed Begley Jr. was in this, which is kind

of shocking to me. But anyway. Yeah, he plays

Riddler's ill -fated boss, I think. He gets pushed

out of a giant window. Yeah, you know, everybody

say, Fred, babe, you are fired, or something.

I love the Batmobile design in this. I don't

care what anybody says, it's a cool -ass Batmobile.

You have a mental deficiency. Yeah, I like everything

about it except for the giant fin in the back.

It's so, ugh. But, I don't know, my favorite

Batmobile is still the one from 1989. It's so

cool with the shields and everything. I think

it got a bit ridiculous in Batman Returns. It

looked practical. It had that giant piston thing

and stuff like that. And then in Batman Forever,

okay, being able to climb walls in that one scene,

that was pretty cool. But otherwise, I think

it was a bit too, like, sports car -ish, I guess?

It looked like a Hot Wheels toy. Yeah, it was

less practical and more like an action figure.

Yeah, but I mean, gotta admit though, the - The

design of it was cool, regardless if you don't

think it should have a fin or not. It's just,

it's... I thought it was... I think it was cool.

It didn't seem practicality to me. I mean, Batman

seems like a guy, he has a utility to everything

that he does. Sure, it's stylized, but what the...

Batman does not have neon lights on a Batmobile.

It's supposed to sneak up on guys, not, hello,

here I am, sponsored by Pennzoil. Yeah, I think

it was something that was... that looked cool

in the nineties. I don't think it's dated very

well. But still, if it was 1995 and you were

driving around in that thing, you would be a

pretty cool guy. I like this scene when Two -Face

is chasing him and he grabs that rocket launcher

and he's gonna fire it at the Batmobile. Batman

hits a button or he does something where he swerves

out of the way and the the rocket launch Oh,

yeah, like the wheels go directly sideways I

think and the car actually drives to the side

which is pretty cool But the rocket hits hits

to face his own guys and I like his I like Tommy

Lee Jones's reaction Oh, no, where's it? It's

almost like a Looney Tunes reaction or something.

It was funny. I Don't know. I you know I don't

know, I think I just, I like this one better

than a lot of the other ones. And I'm talking

as my almost 30 year old self. Now if I was 9

or 12 years old right now, I would probably say

Batman 89, but being an adult and just watching

Batman 89 again, I just, I couldn't. You see,

my main problem with this movie, it's the villains.

And because see everything else is who I think

is fine. I love the whole Dr. Chase thing the

character study of Batman I love the whole Robin

I think Robin could have been cast as a younger

actor I know Leonardo DiCaprio was considered

at some point which would have been good I think

he's a little bit younger, but but he's not muscular

enough, but yeah, I guess I just But still I

like what they did with Robin where he's out

to get revenge and stuff like that but I have

to agree with Mike that I don't know, I don't

understand the bad guy's motivations. They're

just like, hey, I'm crazy! Yeah, Two -Face was

just... In the comics he has this duality, he

wants to be good, but there's a side of him pulling

him towards evil and he has different motivations

and stuff like that. Here's just a guy who wears

a crazy suit that's split down the middle and

he's like a lemur version of Joker from the first

movie. I think Jim Carrey tried to have fun with

the... With the Riddler role, but he was still

being Jim Carrey Yeah, you watch if you watch

Ace Ventura and then you watch Batman forever.

It's almost the same thing Yeah, because like

she was certainly channeling his whole in living

color, you know energy into this hadn't really

matured at that point because Jim Carrey could

be a fantastic actor if you've ever seen the

Truman show or eternal sunshine of the spotless

mine, but You didn't know I think I just I don't

know, I felt like he could have delivered more

with this character. And that's the thing, the

Riddler to me is the biggest threat that Batman

has ever faced, because he's a guy who's probably

smarter than Batman, just not as cunning. I think

that's why, at least in the comics, the Riddler

is so obsessed with Batman, because Batman is,

quote -unquote, the greatest detective on earth,

and Riddler sees himself as the greatest - The

greatest detective? Yeah, the - the - the - If

we ever get Riddler in the Nolan verse, you know

who I want to play him? David Hyde Pierce That's

actually not bad casting. Yeah, that's actually

pretty good. I was going to suggest Robin Williams,

actually, if they wanted to go with someone older.

I know it was considered for the role back in

95. I think Johnny Depp could pull it off, but

only because he has that more physicality to

him. If they wanted to have the Riddler -Fitz

fight. But from an intellectual level, just having

David Hyde Pierce kill you off? See, I don't

see the Riddler as a guy who would go for a punch.

I think if you were to face down the Riddler,

he'd actually probably run away from you as opposed

to fight you. I see him as a guy who's out to

get attention and to prove that he's smarter

than you. Well, that's the whole thing when they

showed in the jewelry scene, and he's like, do

a face. Show me how to punch a guy. Reach way

back and assert yourself. Ow! Yeah, he would

never punch somebody. um... it's very strange

and in the notes that i grabbed from wiki it

says that john favreau and don the dragon wilson

appear in cameos i did not catch john favreau

and i think we saw favreau in there didn't we

did? i saw him in the credits and i think when

we uh... when we post our uh... our commentary

which will be next week uh... yeah so when this

commentary comes out I actually mention when

we're watching the credits, I say at one point,

I didn't know John Fabro was in this because

I just saw his name come across the credits.

But yeah, I don't remember who he plays in this

at all. I think he's some kind of a guard or

something or he's like a press agent. I remember

seeing him about 100%. I have no idea. He might

even be one of the people like one of Bruce Wayne's

Yes Men or something like that. I think that's

where it is actually. I actually like Val Kilmer

as Bruce Wayne in Batman. Don't get me wrong

I liked Michael Keaton as well, but I think Val

did a much better job And I wish they would have

kept him instead of going to holy courage clearly

fucking George Clooney Oh my god, that's gonna

be the you're gonna hear me say fuck you George

Clooney and so many times in the Batman and And

I love George Clooney. I think he was a horrible

choice. If you see his other movies, he's a fantastic

actor. I think the problem with George Clooney

as Batman is George Clooney is Bruce Wayne, but

George Clooney is not Batman. Yeah, you know

like you just look ridiculous. He's Danny Ocean

with batarangs But I think in terms of actually

like the physicality of it like looking like

the actual character Physically Val Kilmer probably

looked like the best Batman see and that I will

definitely give you now personally I actually

kind of like it more than Michael Keaton in a

lot of ways because I think he brought an Intensity

to it that Keaton didn't Keaton brought kind

of a quiet kind of subdued Batman Whereas Val

Kilmer, I felt, had more of an intense grit to

him. Here's what I think in terms that Michael

Keaton is the film Batman. Val Kilmer is the

comic book movie Batman. Because the Burton verse

and the Schumacher verse are not even related

other than those obscure references hidden in

them. Because Keaton, like you said, is more

subdued, more serious. It's more of a movie,

it's a film. Whereas you look at Batman Forever

and Batman and Robin, they're comic book movies.

They're meant to be the Saturday matinee sort

of thing. Whereas Batman and Batman Returns,

you can sit down... on a Saturday night and watch

those, or something you take time out of your

day to watch. Batman, Forever Batman, Robin,

you just pop on any time of day. Yeah. I think

I just, I really like Kilmer as Batman, no matter

what anyone says. I started to appreciate him

more after you brought up your points. I like

Keaton as Batman in some ways. I think I actually

like him more as Bruce Wayne than I do as Batman.

When he's in the actual bat suit, Keaton isn't

very tall, and he just kind of looks goofy at

some points. Well, you know, the other thing

is they did completely change the Batsuit for

this film. This is not the same Batsuit that

we saw in the first two films. And I noticed

that watching this because he can move more,

he could move more than Keaton could in Returns.

It's a darker black. It's not, I mean, while

the black for the one in 89 in Returns was dark,

this is actually much darker. It's almost like

a jet black. It's like kind of a shiny black,

I think, in this one. It's like Teflon. It's

like Teflon, yeah. It's NRAV, but painted black.

What was I going to say? Mike, do you have a

favorite character or least favorite character

out of this one? Favorite character? I'm actually

a huge fan of Robin. I love Chris O'Donnell's

portrayal in this movie except when he's trying

to act all tough. Least favorite character, and

it pains me to say this, is Two -Face because

Tommy Lee Jones is a fantastic actor and he could

have really brought an air of menace to this.

Instead he plays him like... fucking Yosemite

Sam. And that's what made me angry at this movie,

truly. Well, you know, one thing I did laugh

at but I kind of thought was very menacing as

well is when the Riddler breaks into his hideout

and after the Riddler gives him his little proposition

he goes, you know, heads we accept or tails we

just blow your damn head off. I thought that

was so cool. There were some really genuinely

good moments with by Tommy Lee I mean I think

there's some deleted scenes as well between him

and Batman that kind of expand his character

more as well but instead we get the cackling

lunatic. I like the other scene too as well when

he's he's almost you know falling off the island

and Robin goes to pick him up he goes you know

the bat has taught you well noble stupid but

noble and he points the gun at you know i like

that i thought i think that i think that the

only seen in the entire movie were to face actually

felt like to face to me because he he he understands

robin's motivations he understands why he needs

to be noble because of how he used to be a lawyer

but at the same time direct you realize you know

this is this is just stupid of you should have

just let me die So I think this was the only

point in the entire movie where I actually really

liked Two -Face's character. The rest of the

movie he was just, I don't know, going around

being crazy. I could have done without the holy

rusted metal, Batman. See, I thought that was

funny. I kind of like how they did the reference

to the original Batman show. Right, it was, but

I think it would have been funny if Batman actually

got the damn joke instead of Robin having to

explain it to him. Yeah, that was kind of unnecessary.

Or if he just said holy, you know, something

random at some point. You know what I just, I

was actually just kind of reading over some notes

here. Did you guys know that Marlon Waynes was

originally supposed to be Robin? Yes, I did actually.

Does that not just make you cry on the inside?

it's not a horrible choice. I think it would

be interesting actually to see a black robin

and have the flying graysons actually be black

instead of white. Well you know, that or even

an Asian robin would be, I don't know, it doesn't

have to be white. I think it would be cool if

it was the female robin. That would have been

cool. Well, you know, Mike, we did have a black

Harvey Dent, so black Robin probably isn't too

far off the mark. Oh, Billy Dee! That's another

thing about this movie. I almost think it would

be better if they had just brought Billy Dee

back to play Two -Face instead of Tommy B. Jones.

Yeah, it could have been contract issues. I really

like Chris O'Donnell's portrayal of Robin. I

almost wish they would have done, I know they

can't go back and do it now, he's a little bit

too much, he's too old now, but at the time I

wish that they would have done a Nightwing series

of films or a TV show or something with him because

I really like him as Robin. I don't know, in

some scenes I like him as Robin, in some scenes

he's just kind of over the top and ridiculous.

I like them better in this one than in Batman

and Robin for sure. Well, he was a dickhead in

that movie. Like I said, I almost wish they would

have cast someone younger as Robin. The fact

that he's like 25 years old and he's living with

Bruce is just... And why is he a ward? I mean,

he's clearly old enough to do whatever the hell

he wants. I would have to look this up, but they

said something about, after his parents died,

they said something about... You know, he didn't

want us to deal with all the social services

bullshit. So that would lead me to believe he

is at least 16 or 17. Despite the fact obviously

looking like he's 25. I think in a later scene

that Batman references him as a college student,

or he should be in college or something like

that. And I think they say at one point that

he doesn't have to stay with Bruce Wayne, that

he's doing it of his own accord, like he could

leave at any time because he's old enough to

do so. So I'm pretty sure he's actually somewhere

between 18 and 23. But he's just saying with

Bruce because it's easier and he has a kick -ass

butler and an awesome car collection. And more

money they could spend in a lifetime. Yeah. And

he gets the Batman credit card, as we see in

Batman and Robin. Next movie. I think it was

really awesome to see. You know and I mean I

can only compare these films to Batman the animated

series really I mean as far because I don't I've

read maybe one Batman trade paper back in my

entire life And I don't even remember that because

it was like when I was nine or ten years old

But I really liked it when he calls Alfred al

I thought that was kind of funny I Yeah, I like

the relationship between Batman and Alfred in

this movie. I think they developed that a little

bit more than they did At least in the second

movie, where Alfred's just kind of there. But

yeah, I felt like Alfred had more to say in this

film, definitely. I didn't really like Commissioner

Gordon in this film, he's just kind of a bumbling

idiot the whole time. Yeah, how the hell did

he get to be Commissioner of Police? At one point

he was competent, now he's just... they didn't

even know the role of commissioner because he's

been there for twenty years and they don't want

to get a new guy yeah they're basically he is

just the bigger head of the cost they just keep

feed him coffee and doughnuts and give him like

fucking word jumbles and and and and i should

know you know rest in peace pat handle uh...

is that he will be passed away last year that's

what you think no he did he's in my basement

locked up uh... jr anyways uh... anyways are

not going there uh... shut up pat i'll feed you

later uh... i did not like it the bat wing in

this added that i did not like that design at

all i think the bat boat pretty gay too yeah

the bat boat uh... i like the battleship scene

that was funny as hell and i was pretty cool

but I don't know, I like how they introduced

the Bat -Boat in this one. I think they had it

for a little bit in returns. I like the Bat -Wing

in this one. I always like the Bat -Wing. It's

like my favorite of Batman's vehicles, I guess.

Well, you know, you guys were saying in the 89

commentary, Mike, I think you brought it up.

It might have been you, Dave. I don't know, about

the Bat -Wing going into the moon and showing

the Batman symbol. Yeah, I thought that was cool.

I think we talked about how Mike thought it was

cool, and then I thought it was kind of over

the top and retarded. Just because it's like,

what's the point? Why is he flying up? Just so

they can do this stupid money shot and then going

back down. I mean, it's cool the first time you

see it The point of me bringing that up is because

that is actually the episode art for our Batman

coverage when Mike and I and Was it me you and

Steve that did that? I don't remember me and

you and so But yeah, that's our actual podcast

episode art for episode 25 of them wire is is

that shot up on the moon or? up against the moon

so That's cuz that's cuz we have taste Dave.

Yeah I'm sorry. There's okay. There's like three

things about that movie. I don't like I don't

like how Robin or I mean not Robin Joker kills

Batman's parents. I don't like how Vicky Vail

Randomly gets let into the bat cave Everyone

gets pissed off about that, but it's so stupid

I don't like how the bat will be or the bat wing

randomly flies up into the moon for no reason

to get that money shot Just for that you're to

chase Pat Hingles diaper later We gave a Mexican

food today it's gonna be extra horrifying Anyways,

back on topic. Yeah, I mean, overall, honestly,

I would have to say, you know, just kind of in

kind of final thoughts here, honestly, now that

I'm looking at these films as I'm older and I'm

not looking them as my nine year old or 15 year

old self, Batman Forever is probably my number

one out of the four original films. I think it's

one of the movies that has aged the best, actually,

in a lot of ways. I find, yeah, I find I like

it more the more times I watch it, and then Batman

Returns, I used to love it back in the day, and

then the more times I watch that, the more I

like it. It really is how stupid it is. Yeah,

this movie is kind of stupid. It's really, it's

dark, and I like the style in a lot of ways.

It kind of has that kind of quirky Tim Burton

style, but the plot of this movie is retarded.

But it doesn't say anything! And Batman's barely

in it, and the Penguin has, like, no motivation.

You know what I want? I don't... I tried to isolate

it and get it myself, but I couldn't. I want

the boing from the green bat bombs that the Riddler

used. I love that sound. That was so freaking

cool. We could probably reproduce that sound

in our sound library. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's

a very standard, like, comedic, yeah, kind of

a spring going up. But it's still a great sound

effect. Oh, actually an interesting thing about

that scene is that that's not a stunt double.

Jim Carrey was actually there as those explosions

were going off like 10 feet away from him because

it was the only way they could get those shots.

Yeah, I watched the special features. Speaking

of the special features, I have, as we all have,

the Batman complete anthology 1989 to 97 set

and I've got the Batman Forever 2 disc. DVD out

here. It's got the commentary by Joel Schumacher.

Take it or leave it. I didn't really look at

the additional scenes. I'm going to have to go

back and look at those. They're actually, they

add a lot to the movie. I'm kind of pissed that

they cut them out, actually. Well, at least they're

on the DVD, though, Dave. Character development

does not sell toys, god damn it. They were planning

on, for 2005, it was the film's 10th anniversary,

and they were planning on doing like an extended

version. Batman Forever where they were going

to restore some of the deleted scenes and have

it be about at least, probably at least two hours

and fifteen minutes but it just, I don't know,

that idea got thrown out and instead we just

got a few deleted scenes on the DVD. A few is

better than none because I can think of a few

DVDs that have shit for special features. Yeah,

yeah, actually these DVDs... slash blu -rays

are especially if you can get a blu -ray these

movies look fantastic on blu -ray and the special

features are actually really good like I was

I was satisfied you get all the original like

TV specials that came out to promote the films

you get the trailer commentaries on all four

films deleted scenes music all pretty much all

the music videos except for a bit they didn't

have YouTube hold me throw me kiss me kill me

which kind of pissed me off but I don't know,

lots of stuff, as well as an eight part making

of series that goes throughout the entire history

of the Batman movies, right from the pre -production

of Batman all the way to the end of Batman of

Robin, which was amazing. I just think they did

a fantastic job with this DVD slash Blu -ray

set. You know, I think one of the things I like

the best though is the heroes and the villains

profile galleries because normally when you see

something on a DVD that says a profile gallery

it's just images or a list of Credits from the

actor. Yeah, and it says or it'll say have like

a paragraph written about the character Yeah

in this they actually you know cut to scenes

and they actually talk to the people who and

that's one of the things I liked about the 1989

film or the 1989 DVD from the set You know, you

have Billy Dee talking about how he wanted to

portray Harvey Dent and then hopefully go into

Two -Face, which unfortunately they never did.

But I think, do we have any other final? Yeah,

that part was actually, that whole thing on the

DVDs was actually really cool. And then you have

each of the different Batmans talking about their

portrayals of Batman and all the... I don't know,

just all the different characters talking about

themselves. You even have one about Bob the Goon

from the first movie. You have the guy that played

Bob the Goon talking about doing that and how

he had his own action figure at one point, stuff

like that. So it's actually a really cool little

video set. One of the things I just wanted to

mention to this, I was looking at the critical

reception part of this on Wikipedia and it turns

out, Hold Me, Kiss Me, Kill Hold Me, Thrill Me,

Kiss Me, Kill Me was nominated for a Golden Globe

and yet was also nominated for worst song at

the Razzies. I mean, we had John on our show

and I think that song is pretty awesome actually.

I think that's one of those songs either you

love it or you're like, you two is gay, I hate

this song. And especially since a lot of people

that loved you two in the 80s... Because they

had a more kind of political style and a more

kind of gritty down -to -earth style. This was

a pop song? Yeah, and then you get to U2 in the

90s, and they're all like techno and stuff like

that. This is a song that made me like U2. I

think this is the song that was the epitome of

90s U2. So if you like 90s, the 90s version of

U2, you'll probably like this song. But if you're

an 80s U2 fan, you'll probably hate it. So it

all depends on your view of that band, I guess.

I like a lot of their stuff. it just depends

on the song but i like a pretty much every thought

not really everything they've done but a lot

of like that the famous songs that they have

like mysterious ways in and i'll what's that

crap what's that one from uh... tomb raider god

elevation and i love that yeah i mean you know

i i'm not really uh... genre or decade specific

YouTube fan. So you know I like a lot of their

songs but again I think for me what it was with

YouTube was they were getting so much radio airplay

and it was before I had iTunes and it was like

oh my god I can't stand these people anymore.

Yeah I know what you mean. They had a point where

they were really popular and annoying as fuck.

But they have a new song actually on the movie

Brothers that's really good called Winter. It

will probably end up nominated for an Oscar.

I know it was nominated for a Golden Globe. Anyways,

I'm going off topic. Oh, I had the Peter David

novelization. I was just looking at the, because

I'm scrolling down to the closing, but you know

the time of merchandising. I did have the book

of this. i don't remember a lot of the toys for

this but then again i was just going in the high

school and i think you know you know what movie

i remember the toys for the most is batman and

robin yeah i had a shit it was a horrible movie

but it had a fantastic action figure but they

actually made really good action figures uh...

movie but i don't really remember the movie the

action figures for the theater which is weird

yeah but i i think i read the only one i kind

of remembers the batmobile I don't even think

they had the likeness rights for Jim Carrey,

so his figure looks nothing like him, I think.

I'm not 100 % sure on that fact. More than likely.

Jim Carrey's the kind of guy who probably wouldn't

sign on with his likeness right figure of himself.

But who knows? Oh yeah, and I'll bring this up

in the Batman and Robin episode when it comes

out on Saturday. The only good thing about that

film is the poster. The poster was awesome. The

film itself sucked. I think all four of these

movies actually had really cool posters. I like

the green and the blue they did for this movie.

I love the Riddler's question mark. It's so cool

I would actually consider getting a tattoo of

it because I think it's really that cool looking.

But Batman and Robin, it was all over the place.

When it came to its color design and everything

else, it didn't know what it wanted to be. The

poster was visually confusing. The poster looked

ridiculous, especially when they had the sky

-surfing Robin and Batman, but once again, that's

a conversation for a different day. I actually

really like the poster for Batman Forever. I'm

just looking at it. It's on the Wikipedia page

right now. I don't know. little poster just kind

of has Batman like swinging his arm out and then

underneath him there's the Batmobile and then

in between them is the four other characters

of Jim Carrey, Tommy Lee Jones, Nicole Kidman

and Chris O'Donnell. It's just, I don't know,

I've never really seen a poster that's designed

almost diagonally like that. Like the Batman

Returns poster is like kind of up and down where

it's just the three main actors on top of each

other like a totem pole. But this one had kind

of a cool diagonal line thing going on. I think

I'm looking too far into this, but... No, I mean,

it's fine. You know, the other thing is that

with these two final films in this part of the

Bat Film series... is that they created, as I

said, because I had it, they created individual

character posters for each character on both

films, I believe. I can't be certain about Batman

and Robin, but I know they did for Batman. I'm

pretty sure. I know for sure that they did for

this one. Yeah. Where they took each of the little

pictures that they have on the full poster and

then kind of stretched them out for the individual

character posters and then they post those around

different... cities and on buses and stuff like

that or it's a like Riddler or Jim I think would

actually say Jim Carrey as the Riddler and then

it would say underneath Batman forever and Then

it would have another one that was like Nicole

came in as dr. Chase meridian Batman forever

and stuff like that so this movie had fantastic

marketing in terms of all the tie -ins that with

like Mike was saying with the McDonald's mugs

which we still have one in our cabinet over here

that I got when I was a kid and I don't know,

all the commercials you'd see on TV. I think

there was like special Doritos and Pepsi at this

time. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I think the only

movie I ever saw that went more overboard than

this for marketing time was Star Wars Episode

I when that came out and they had the Doritos

and then the KFC slash Pizza Hut slash Taco Bell

thing and then they had the Pepsi cans and you

could collect all those and it was just ridiculous.

Well, Star Wars is a huge collection thing. So

yeah Anyway, all right. Um, I Think we are going

to take a quick break I need a name Batboy Nightwing.

I don't know. What do you think? What's a good

sidekick name? All right This is TFG when Mike

and I am back here with Mike the Birdman dot

and David double D Dennis of this week in geek.

Hello guys Hey We just finished our discussion

on Batman Forever. I am now part of the Twig

podcasting crew. Yes, very much so. We brought

you on board to replace another team member that

has gone on hiatus for we don't know how long.

Welcome to the tribe. Exactly, man. Welcome to

the crew, buddy. Do you guys have anything you

want to plug, or is there any super secret twig

information you can give the GeekCast radio listeners?

Well, by the time this episode airs, we will

have completed our uva bowl special. It'll be

out sometime next week. Also, be sure to be checking

out thegameheroes .com and potentially screwattack

.com. I'm going down to Dallas on February 7th

till the 14th, so you should see me in a couple

of videos across both of those websites if everything

works out the way that i wanted to so i'm not

uh... just the usual really upset and i think

that before uh... are batman forever commentary

which will be out next week we're going out next

week as well that kind of tied in with this which

is cool and then hopefully We want to do a Batman

and Robin commentary, but we're waiting for Pierce.

He's working on a film right now as an assistant

director, I believe. So once he comes back, that'll

be one of the first things we'll do for sure,

is do a hilarious, I'm sure, commentary on Batman

and Robin. As I said before, and I believe I

said in the intro, you're going to get both Bat

episodes this coming Saturday, the 30th of January.

Both episode 27 and episode 28. Again, the reason

why we're doing a double shot is because we have

to, to keep up with the schedule for MWIRE. By

the time this airs... The Secret Origins podcast,

which is our Justice League Review podcast, will

air February 2nd. Tunecast episode 35 is up,

where I pretty much rant all the hell about the

fucking go -bots. Goddamn Transformers. Hey man,

the go -bots are the shit, man. I love the go

-bots. Fuck you, man. Transformers fandom. Anyway.

This iKill was cool. I'm sorry, that, you know,

and I'm not really trying to turn this into a

tangent, but that show, the only good thing about

that show is the theme. That's it. The show itself

sucked. I know some of the characters are neat,

but once again, that's a conversation for a different

day. Anyway, what else do we have coming up?

Um, crap. I don't think we have, yeah, Secret

Origins, M -Wire, oh, Toycast will be releasing

its 40th episode sometime either this weekend

or next week. Uh, it was a very, very hilarious

episode. I actually tried to end it like, uh,

the Clerks animated episode where Dante is supposed

to be sentenced to death or something or other.

Anyway, although there were no Korean animators

in that. Oh my god, Bear is driving! How can

that be? Anyway. Thank you for joining us here

on Movie Week in Review. There are several ways

to get in contact with us. We'll leave feedback

for the show. The first is you can visit www

.geecastradio .com and find all the other GCR

and podcasts there. The second is you can stop

by productonempire .com slash nexus. Those are

our new forums. And the third is you can leave

the show feedback in iTunes. Please be sure to

go over to thisweekingeek .net and check out

all of their cool content. uh... you can follow

us on twitter the show name there is gc r and

m wire minus t if you and mike and david what

is your twitter uh... did david underscore dennis

at birdman dot we hope you enjoyed this is our

effort out the act continued i don't ever say

the ads because I think people just assume it's

like saying www .beforewebsite. I would just

like to point out my cat has an erection and

is near my foot and it's freaking me out. Okay,

thank you. Just pointing that out. Out of the

recording, anyway. It adds life to it like spontaneous

live radio. We hope you enjoyed this episode

of M -Wire. Wish you'll join us next time when

we'll be reviewing in the DC Spotlight Volume

1, Batman and Robin. Oh boy, I can feel the ice

puns now. For now, I'm TFG1Mike with... Arnold

Schwarzenegger, and it's going to be a cold harvest!

Sorry, David W. Dennis. And I'm Mike the Birdman

Dodd. Thank you for listening, until next time.

Mike, close the show. There used to be a graying

tower alone on the sea When it snows, my eyes

become alive And the light that you shine can

be seen So much a man can tell you, so much he

can say. You remain my power, my pleasure, my

faith, baby. You talk to me like a grown addiction

that I can't allow. Won't you tell me it's unhealthy,

babe? But did you know that when it snows, my

eyes become large and alive? That you shine,

can't be seen Baby, I can pay you to a kiss from

a rose on the grave Ooh, the more I get of you

to stay There is so much a man can tell me, so

much he can say You remain my power, my pleasure,

my pain To me you're like a grown addiction that

I can't deny Now won't you tell me is it Healthy

baby, but did you know that when it snows My

eyes become large and the light that you shine

can't be seen Baby, rockin' feet to a kiss from

a rose on the breeze That your rose is in bloom

A light hits the gloom