Rambo Franchise Review

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welcome to M wire movie we can review that's

right. We are still hanging around on Sunday

matinees I'm of course TFG when Mike joining

me is movie revolt Dan. Hello, sir How's it going?

It's gone. It's been a couple of Sundays, but

we are back and Continuing our 80s film franchise

Sylvester Stallone style. We're gonna be talking

about Rambo's franchise this time around last

time was Rocky and and this time is Rambo John

Rambo a drifter just passing through their town

morning Headed north to south North. Now jump

in. I'll make sure you head in the right direction.

You got some place I can eat around here? There's

a diner about 30 miles up the highway. Is there

any law against me getting something here? Yeah,

me. I want you to book this gentleman for vagrancy,

resisting arrest, carrying a concealed weapon.

They knew he was innocent. I'm starting to dislike

you. Lock. And... They didn't give a damn. That's

okay, Warren. Don't worry about the soap. He's

tough. Just shave him, drag him. Don't move.

I don't want you to catch your own throat. John

Rambo. One man who's been pushed too far. You're

finished! You've gone as far as you're gonna

go! Headed straight for the top. Right on top.

There's no way out of here except through us.

He was hunted. Trapped. the fact that you're

dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare.

Are you telling me that 200 men against your

boy is a no -win situation for us? You send that

money, don't forget one thing. A good supply

of body bags. Sylvester Stallone, this time he's

fighting for his wife. First blood. Optimus Solo

may or may not make an appearance in this podcast,

I don't know yet. So yeah, we're talking about

Rambo this time around, and I can't believe how

much I do not remember any of these movies except

First Blood Part II. That's interesting. I know

for a fact that I never... John Rambo Rambo for

Rambo, whatever the hell you want to call the

fourth film I know for a fact this was the first

time I had ever seen it I knew of it I remember

hearing about it You'd think I would have seen

it seeing as how I'm a die -hard Brian Tyler

fan since he did the score for that one But I

had never seen that until just before we did

this episode show I'm actually there with you

even I'm there with you. I never saw before either

that that one and Sadly, I think I've owned it

for like I don't know a good decade or so when

Blockbuster was still open and they used to sell

their previously viewed DVDs. I picked it up

and it just gave me a reason to finally watch

it. And what's odd, I still had the receipt in

the case. So if it didn't work, I could return

it. That's hilarious. Yeah, there's no return

there. You don't have to worry about Be Kind

Rewind anymore. I First Blood Part II is the

only one out of the entire franchise that I had

ever seen as a kid in the 80s. It was the only

one. First Blood came out in 82. I was only two

years old at that point. Watching that back,

I'm like, this is not what I thought it was going

to be. It's one of those films for me that...

This is gonna be weird, but just go with it.

For me as a kid, I would often watch sequels

before I would watch the first film, because

as I said, I might have been too young at the

time to have seen the first, like I was four

years old when Beverly Hills Cop came out. Alright,

I was seven when the second one came out. I saw

the second one before I saw the first one. And

it was the same thing with this. I saw the second

one I pretty much only saw the second one and

I hadn't watched any of the others I think I

had seen bits and pieces of Rambo 3 but never

really actually fully watched it until Obviously

we're doing this show And yeah, I mean first

blood part 2 is the only one I really remember

and it's only because of it That was one of the

I think that was the one that had a couple of

big shots of him in the knife And that was the

one that he got the little good luck charm from

the girl, so. Yeah, I mean, for me, I think I

watched the third one that actually, probably

the most one that stuck out for me for a variety

of reasons. The grandma one, I think I watched

a little bit of, but I don't know why, but the

third one was the one I seem to remember the

most from. Mainly because of the I think the

Afghan scenes always stood out to me and the

use of helicopter like those helicopters Which

I know are in the second one, too But I just

I loved them as a kid my dad was in the Air Force

So we went to a lot of air shows and we learned

a lot about aviation and I loved those helicopters

I thought they were like the most badass thing

ever So that's one that always stood out to me

a lot was that one but I'm similar to you I remember

I tend to like when I tend to end up a kid liking

a lot of the sequels more than I did the original

I remember I think as a kid I probably enjoyed

back to future three more than I did the other

ones you know because I was in the West and I

enjoyed that aspect of it for this one though

I think it was the third one because you know

for a variety of reasons though now as an adult

I think that's a lot of ways yeah and you know

like I've said like I've been saying since episode

130 when Doug and I did the Mission Impossible

movies. My whole goal for M .Y .R. between 130

and 150 is to go back to franchises that we had

yet to cover on M .Y .R. and that's one of the

reasons why we did Rocky and one of the reasons

why we're doing Rambo. And Rambo to me, before

even going back and watching these movies, is

pretty much the guy standing there with the giant

machine gun firing at everybody, you know, firing

at all the like, I remember the image of Stallone

as the character. I don't remember hardly any

of, so this is all fresh and new to me when I

watch, I watch First Blood and I'm like, okay,

that's not at all what I, it's basically Rambo

versus small town police force. All right. So

getting into it, there are four films in the

franchise. Somebody said something about, Son

of Rambo or something, but that was some weird

cartoon thing or I don't know what that was.

Well, no, there's an independent movie called

Son of Ram. Oh, but it's a movie called Son of

Rambo, which is about these kids in some place

in, I think, England. But it's they end up trying

to make their own Rambo. They're inspired by

watching Rambo. And it's like during the 80s

is happening during that time. They end up trying

to make their own version of the movie. with

like, you know, camcorders and craziness and

it really has nothing to do with the actual Rambo

film except for the title. Yeah, the fact that

they're kind of inspired by that movie. It's

a good movie. I would highly recommend it, but

it's not like an action film by any means. Yeah,

no. So getting through some of the stuff for

theatrical release dates for all four. The first

movie was October 22nd of 82. Three are pretty

much I think I'd have to go back and look at

this but Same month and day just three years

apart May 22nd 85 and 88 And then the fourth

one got pushed to January of 2008 so it was 20

years between the third and the fourth film Sometimes

with certain franchises I don't know with sequels

coming out that lengthy apart like Again Beverly

Hills cop 84 87 and 94 So it had been ten years

between the first and the third one and let's

face it that third movie is not exactly the best

Thing that they could have done, but they had

to bring it into the 90s somehow Yeah, I think

what like you saw we saw seeing a lot of during

that time a lot of like Franchises trying to

make the way back, you know, we talked about

rocky read, you know rocky Balboa came back Live

diehard came back 2007 that was around the same

length of time. Some of them are more successful

than others and I think Rambo I think was an

attempt to kind of capture that it seemed like

you know Those movies were in the side case again

kids who watched them like us in in the 90s as

kids are now like, you know college or you know,

kind of, you know from that that sweet spot of

18 to 35 years old, and they tried to kind of

recapture that again. I think Die Hard was financially

successful, Die Hard 4 at least, and I think

Rocky Balboa, we talked about it, was a great

movie. We'll get the Rambo, but it didn't hit

either level. I think most of the time when you

think of 80s action movies, and I'm only talking

live action, I'm not talking animation or anything

like that, Rocky, Rambo, Karate Kid, Karate Kid's

a little slower, but it could be considered an

action movie. I mean, there's martial arts in

it and all that. Any of the Terminators, Beverly

Hills Cop, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, it's all

that stuff. And all of that, it seems that I

was more exposed to than the Rambo movies, because

like I've already said, until I rewatched these,

I barely remember anything from... from at least

the first three. Like I said, I remember the

second one, the first, third, and fourth one.

Obviously, I never saw the fourth one until now,

but it's just one of those things where it's

like, is it the idea of the character that I

remember more than what actually happens in the

film? And like you said, we'll get into it. The

cast in these movies, again, going back to, holy

crap, I don't really remember. I was kind of

shocked that Brian Dennehy was in the first one.

I like the guy he's a great actor but I just

I was kind of shocked and then honestly outside

of him and there was another one outside of him

Charles Napier and Martin Cove I know nobody

in the first three movies and Kurt Smith was

the only other one. But I was shocked when I

saw Martin Kove. I'm like, what the hell is John

Kreese from Karate Kid doing in a Rambo movie?

I was like, oh my God. Sylvester Stallone, we

all know his career. I mean, the guy has had

a ton of success with various types of films,

whether comedy, action, whatever it is. uh...

and he's done great great work uh... richard

krena who plays uh... trotman i thought i recognized

him he actually uh... played a a spoof of his

own character in hot shots part dear uh... what

other cast members from the franchise do you

like or do you want to talk about Mean the only

one that really really stands out that I at all

remember going back to these movies is Richard

Cronoxy You know, he's a key component to this

franchise. He's really the only actor that was

really in all of them except for Rambo obviously

besides the fourth one since he passed away and

they go three so He all has that voice like his

voice to me is almost even more recognizable

than his luck and I you know, and he rocks the

the beret really well and yes he does yeah and

i don't know like you talked about liking the

character or you know maybe the character means

more than the franchise the movie itself and

i think that's probably the case because i even

remember you know there was a very short -lived

rambo cartoon and i believe he had a voice in

that if i'm not mistaken i don't think salone

did but like he was always a key member to me

and uh and uh so he was always like i think the

kind of the Don't know not the conscious but

he his relationship with Rambo was probably one

of the best parts of the movie this franchise

So that's everyone else just kind of you know,

you know Brian Dennehy was a good bad guy. He

definitely made you dislike him but Everyone

like especially the later films Rambo 3 Rambo

the titular characters or the Tertiary characters

are we're pretty forgettable for the most part

Yeah So looking at since since you brought it

up Rambo the force of freedom was the animated

series It's obviously based on first blood part

one and two It's produced by Ruby Spears enterprises

And it had Neil Ross as the voice of Rambo, so

Springer from Transformers, Keith from Voltron,

Troutman was voiced by Skeletor, Alan Oppenheimer.

James Avery was a character in this. Let's see,

who else? What is funny is this cartoon has a

villain organization by the name of Savage and

it's... kinda like venom from mask it's s period

a period it's it's a it's it's an acronym thing

and it's like oh my god really seriously sixty

-five episodes were produced uh... there was

supposed to be a tv series uh... doesn't seem

like that's happening now anymore uh... there

were several video games which i'd Just don't

know how a rainbow video game would really work.

I played I played the NES one. Okay. Yeah I just

remember I think it was any. Yes. I'm pretty

sure it was I just remember me had a blow up

like there was the one level where it was like

you blowing up a bridge or like fighting against

a bridge with a bunch of Tanks and stuff that

would go across and you were shooting arrows

and stuff at them and whatnot. It wasn't particularly

great but it did kind of go to go to that the

time in the 80s where you had these r -rated

films like rubble cop like rambo that somehow

had so much merchandise that was still geared

towards children like you know these nes games

or these cartoon series where you're like you

know it's odd you don't really see that much

today usually like everything's really peachy

everything for the most part but rarely is an

r -rated film having like secondary merchandise

that's geared towards children but i felt like

in the 80s that was Super common. So yeah, I

don't know why that was I think they just they

knew kids are gonna be watching these even technically

if they shouldn't be According to The information

that I have the overall franchise budget was

a hundred and seventy one million and the overall

box office was seven Twenty seven point eight

million. So they made their money back Probably

if you look at each individual one, it probably

didn't really do all The first three maybe I

don't know what the fourth one did. I Mean the

first two I think was the biggest financial success.

Yeah sense because first blood kind of it didn't

come out I know where Rocky was Stallone was

known commodity at that point obviously with

Rocky But the second one was pretty big. I think

it I think it was certainly much more of an action

film. I think was more stereotypical of the 80s

over Clone action movies of the time. Yeah, it

kind of caught that wave the third one. I think

suffered I think more because of political and

like world events that were happening because

at the time when it was being shot and written

and all that, you know, Russia was currently

invading Afghanistan. But like I think like half

a year or six months before it actually came

out, that's when they went through. So the entire

story that they built their movie about was kind

of old news by that point. So I don't know if

that impacted the movie itself like financially,

because I mean, obviously. Years old but or the

the ratings weren't or the reviews were basically

the same Just looking at some of the past So,

I don't know if that just impacted it because

the people were done with that story or what

have you but I still made money Just not as much

as the second one Yeah Yeah, I mean and like

I said, you know, we all know these you know

most of the the franchises from the 80s are staples.

You know, you look at any of those franchises

and people just know them immediately. And I

think the thing with the Rambo franchise is that

it's based on a war veteran. It's based, I mean,

First Blood 1 and 2 are right around or right

after the Vietnam War, right when that was kind

of ending. um... and it's not really for it's

definitely not for kids obviously it's not for

i would even say late teenage you know late teens

early tween people because it's i don't know

this is a tough nut to crack on this on who should

actually watch this series because it's so different

than every other series that was in the 80s.

It really, really is. Going into the music really

quickly before we dive into the actual films,

what I find interesting about the music is the

fourth film, Rambo, Was originally advertised

with drowning pools bodies because it I Guess

they used you know, the bodies hit the floor

segment part of that song. I'm like, oh wow Yeah,

that was a use that that segment that that song

I feel like a lot for a lot of different movies

of the time like anything that was like action

or horror related It's like we're gonna use bodies

at the floor. It was very overplayed. It's like

how now They take classic songs and slow them

down or, you know, like a lot of Johnny Cash

songs and trailers. Now it was why hits the floor

was a very common use of a crazy thing is, is

bodies hit the floor. Bodies was a song off there.

One of their, um, it was basically their, their

debut album. uh... because that was played in

ausfest two thousand one so the fact that they're

using a song that time in two thousand eight

that was seven years old or so i mean i get it

you know use music for all kinds of various different

things but Just oh, it just just kind of weird.

All right getting into first blood Basic plot

of this is John Rambeau comes home and He has

PS PTSD obviously most Vietnam vets do and he

can't really a just a civilian life. He's too

into the survivalist and in his own head he's

too into the war kind of thing. And he's really

not even doing anything. This is what surprised

me about First Blood. He's just walking. And

at first I thought it was going to be like that

episode of Knight Rider, a nice little indecent

town, because I thought the sheriff and everybody

was crooked. You know, he's not he's just walking

and they arrest him because he's got a bad haircut

or he doesn't have a good haircut Yeah, well

so this was coming out of the time We talked

about the political implications of the third

one was, you know, the ramifications of Vietnam

were still very much within the zeitgeist You

know, you had movies like dear the deer hunter.

You had movies like apocalypse now And there

was a huge negative sentiment, I think, towards

a lot of people in the Vietnam War, and some

people felt it spread to the soldiers that came

back. And I think this was the only attempt to

kind of show how the mistreatment of those individuals

and how a lot of, and I think it's kind of flipped

on its head a little bit, I feel, but. So I think

in a way what he was trying to demonstrate was

like how this person was looked at Rambo, you

know, they knew he was a soldier based upon,

you know, I think the equipment he had, his jacket

and whatnot. Yeah, the jacket, the fact that

he's got, you know, the sleep pack or the sleeping

bag on his back. the fact that he has the American

flag and his, you know, a name because it's basically

a military uniform kind of thing. It's, it's

not, you know, like a general uniform, but it's

a, you know, it's a, it's, it's a grunt uniform

kind of thing. You know, when you're in the heat

of battle and a couple of lines in this just

really creep me out. And most of them are from

Dennehi and the other guy, the guy that ends

up getting killed. because he threw a rock at

the chopper. It's like, you know, how how dare

you wear that flag or whatever it is. And I'm

like, seriously, are you un -American or something?

This guy fought in the war. I mean, he's a war

hero. Well, that's yeah, that's you know, at

the time where they wouldn't. A lot of them,

a lot of the soldiers weren't looked at. I mean,

you know, I don't think it was a simplify. I

mean, I wasn't 11 or old enough to really. Yeah.

But it's been well documented that a lot of people

felt. that our soldiers weren't treated that

way. You know, they were looked at as pariahs,

they were looked at as murderers because that

was like the first time we had a lot of embedded

reporters who you got to see. And on the news,

kind of just atrocities that were occurring on

basically on every end. So that sentiment was

really negative towards those people. So they

weren't looked at as heroes. They were looked

at as the other... As, you know, these forces

of bad, not bad, that's, you know. Yeah, I know

what you mean. Yeah. They didn't want, no one

wanted them. And there was PSSD, you know, PTSD

was not a thing. That wasn't a term, it's terminology

now, but at the time it was, it wasn't. So they

were looked at in a lot of, there was a huge

amount of drug abuse. And so what they saw was

a drug abuser, a murderer, you know, not an American

hero. And I think, is it simplified? I think

it is. Sure, I think I think that's that you

can definitely say that but I do think it you

know, there is Some truth in what's being which

was what's being brought up here? Regarding his

character, but I don't know it's certainly to

an extreme, but I think that's kind of the point

of it It's an extreme on on their part and I

mean really, you know through the first, you

know Up until the point where he escapes He's

He's doing everything he's supposed to be doing

he wasn't bothering anybody He wasn't you know

he's just walking down the street. You know and

I guess Because of the way you know like I said

because the way he looked because the way he

was dressed and they're like oh well get out

you know we don't want your kind of trouble here

blah blah blah and and of course he just starts

walking back and then he's like Okay, well you're

under arrest vagrancy and this that the other

thing and everything else um... what i appreciate

about this movie not so much i mean i appreciate

the story but going back watching some of these

older movies what i appreciate about this one

is oh my god i forgot how uh... classic stunt

work was actually done because oh my god some

of the car some of the cars and the explosions

and all it's so good oh god what uh... what did

you like about this one Think you know, this

was a very much a transitional movie I feel to

the 80s action as we talked about like I think

this was before we got the commandos were like

everything was to the nth degree talking about

extremes where you know, basically everyone's

a Like basically, you know, Stallone can take,

not Stallone, like Arnold can take out an entire

army of people just standing in the middle of

a field and no one hits them. But I think this

was, I love the action use of stealth. You know,

it set up a lot of common tropes when it came

to this action genre, because you think about

like action movies beforehand, there was nothing

like this, you know, like there weren't, action

wasn't the genre. It is now it was so it really

is a landmark movie in that and I do think rambo

is a very compelling character and uh And like

he's not he's not necessarily a hero per se,

but he's not really a villain He does some Some

um, you understand what he's doing like you you

understand his motivations. He has sympathy for

him. Even if he's clearly, you know legitimately

killing people that Obviously, maybe, maybe,

arguably deserve what they're getting, but I

guess it's up to you. I think if Dennehy's character,

I think if the Dennehy character had actually,

after a while, chosen to sit down and listen,

I see the other guy as more of, I don't have

to pull up his name because I don't remember

what his name is off the top of my head. um...

i see the other guy the one that uh... was in

the chopper like i said i see him as more of

the villain of the series than anything else

uh... art art galt played by jack starrett uh...

i see him more as the villain because they were

the ones willing to well maybe dennis kitt maybe

uh... will teasel was you know gonna let it happen

regardless because they were you know kind of

treating him unfairly but he wasn't exactly going

along with them like he wasn't gonna have them

fingerprint him and things like that and whatever

else and just but I think it's more of a thing

of if they had just would have listened and let

him explain and I get it that that wasn't the

point of the movie but it might have turned out

a little bit better for them considering he pretty

much killed them all Remember as the movie goes

along when we get to almost the end After he

blows up the the gas station I Don't know and

I know this is a small town up in up in Washington

Washington State I Don't know of any towns or

cities that have PA systems even back then I

don't know. That's a good question. I mean, no

seriously folks, please if you're listening to

this podcast Let us know if even back then in

the 80s or even now and then I don't know of

any I don't know major cities have Have PA systems

that the whole city can eat. There's no way in

hell The island of Manhattan has a PA system

that the whole island can hear. There's just

no way And then how big is that damn roof Because

every time will moves He's at almost a different

end of the town because that's where Rambo is

I'm like that roof is not that big that like

was that town just a giant square My I'll let

you do your finals in a minute my final thoughts

on this as we mentioned it is he does suffer

from PTSD obviously it wasn't called that at

the time You know we see that he's out of place

in a civilian world and that the war obviously

really screwed him up Of course wars screw up

people up all the time. I mean This film to me

though shows us two things number one the civilian

officers as I've already said are not even willing

to hear his side of the story and They force

him into a war Because he didn't openly attack

it. He didn't come into that town and start shooting

immediately he was just walking through hoping

to get a bite to eat and maybe a job and The

guy arrested him because like I said he had a

bad haircut and number two He himself and Rambo

needed the war in the small town because that's

what he knew how to do best You know you look

at the at the end of this film Where salon talks

the most because that's the other thing Rambo

doesn't talk a lot in this movie Very it's like

wanted you kind of lines. I would say well as

they go on he talks more I'd say the the second

movie he talks the most with the girl that will

get to her in a minute, but This first movie

he doesn't talk a heck of a lot. So when he finally

lets out to Troutman about All the stuff that

he's feeling I kind of do feel for the guy. I

am empathetic towards him because it's just one

of those things where You know He's been through

hell and after all hell is home Yeah What are

your final thoughts on the first one I think

Like it's you talked about how we would go back

and we watch this and how different it is and

like you when I think of Rambo I think mostly

of Rambo 2 Rambo 3 some more Bombacious and loud

and kind of huge explosions and things like that

This is so much more subdued like you think of

the final climax and like the biggest Kind of

action beat of the movie is like one truck hitting

a couple cars and then what it gets to isn't

it's insane So I I think when you go back to

it, it's just it's fascinating and I think maybe

at the time it wasn't as well respected as a

movie like the deer hunter or something like

that it's not to that level, but I think it it

has a lot more to say than maybe it gets credit

for and And it's certainly in the landmark movie.

Is it a great movie? I don't know but It's very

enjoyable. I think it's it's Has some great action

and it's you know Think arguably one of some

loans like even though he doesn't say a lot I

do think he gives a good performance for Stallone.

I'll say that so yeah as Rambo He does give a

great performance in this movie The whole dirt

bike police car chase. I thought that was great

You know the poor guy that he obviously knocked

off the dirt bike. I think that's the only act

of aggression that Rambo showed in that movie

without being provoked, because he needed a vehicle.

I like that scene. There's a whole bunch of the

action scenes in this that I absolutely love.

That's so easy to survive. Still war here. Survive

a war? You gotta become war. Is that why they

pick you? Because you like to fight? I'm expendable.

All right, getting into First Blood, part two.

This came out in 85. So... At the end of the

first movie, Rambo ends up getting arrested,

ends up going to prison. Troutman does say that

he tried his best to get him to not be in there,

but being in prison, it's a strict, you know,

set of rules. And that was one of the things

that he had talked about at the end of the first

movie, that he, you know, that's why he liked

the military. It was a strict set of things.

So... You know he just goes with the flow in

prison and immediately we see Troutman come back

and offer him his freedom if he goes and does

this thing and enter the other guy the The mercenary

head and I knew as soon as I saw that guy I knew

something was up as soon as I saw Charles Marshall

Murdoch as soon as I saw him because I've seen

him in other things I Knew that there was something

off with that guy So it ends up being a setup

As we go through it and for this one, let's see

the first thing I noticed was I forgot these

films were tri -star pictures Like hey, there's

the horse in the tri -star logo And as I already

mentioned crease from karate kid Martin Cove

is in this The hang up on the plane that was

not good at all Now did somebody do that to him

or did that just happen? I don't know. That's

a good question. I'm not sure. I'll have to go

back and look. I'll have to go back and look

at that because I could have sworn one of the

guys on the plane kind of looked at him funny

and maybe was going to, you know, kind of trip

him up or something, but I could be wrong. The

best line out of this whole movie that actually

ties into something. So this is 85. I think the

first Expendables was what? 2011 or 12 or 13.

Maybe I forget when it was. Um, he has the line

to the girl, I'm expendable. And I'm like, Oh,

sure you are. Uh huh. You're going to have to

wait about 30 years, but yeah. What did you think

of, uh, to the point where he gets, gets the

mission and all that? I mean, like. It's it's

interesting because you know, it's like he's

first his assignment at first is just take photos

It's like that's that's all we want you to do

is take take photos and not you know, I'm like

do retcon like is that really is Ramo really

known for his photograph ability and You know,

and I mean and spy planes did exist today obviously

weren't to the extent we have now, but I mean

in my interpretation That was never the plan.

They knew what they were doing. They're sending

Rambo in there to basically win the Vietnam War.

Rocky won us the Cold War and Rambo's gonna win

us the Vietnam War Part II. But it's interesting.

This is to me, like I talked about, this is where

I think the movies became less about... even

though this was in Vietnam their messages became

I think a little bit modeled and it became more

about the action and Became more of an action

franchise and this is where it really kind of

established itself as that Yeah where like with

the Rambo with the Rocky films that they get

took to the fourth film before it became this

huge blockbuster and This one it became a lot

sooner Not that I think it's void of again void

of any type of messaging because you certainly

see that in the final you know little showdown,

but the majority of the film which really just

really kick -ass action and who doesn't love

exploding arrows because I know those are pretty

badass and you know later on down the line in

1993 they would have exploding chickens and hot

shots part do you included that in the hot shots

is gonna get its own episode god I knew the double

cross was coming I knew like just the way that

that the guy looked at Troutman I knew something

was up that they didn't really want him to find

anybody I knew that double cross was coming,

I saw it coming a mile away. Yeah, it wasn't

subtle. What I like about this is, at the end,

in that final scene... The Rambo can pretty much

do anything. He can blend into water. He can

blend into dirt. And that's what green berets

are supposed to do. They're supposed to be that

resourceful. And like we've said already, he's

got survival training and military training and

all that. And just the way that he goes through

and takes everybody out is just amazing. It's

just a work of art, I think. And of course, there's

a rocket launcher to the chopper. Oh wait, Arnold's

not in this. Oh lord. What I love about Stallone

is his ability to make the most No one else,

I think, could pull off the bandana around the

head as badass as he can. Just tying a knot.

Arnold's really noticed that he has those insane

high fives and stuff like that in Predator. But

Stallone's going to have that back shot of him

tying his bandana with just fricking bulging

gigantic muscles. It's kind of crazy. It's crazy.

It's so crazy. I was honestly hoping, and we're

gonna get to, I don't know if it'll be you, or

I think it's, I think I got somebody else on

that. Eventually, down the line here in M .Y

.R., we're actually gonna get to the Expendables

franchise, and I say this, I was really hoping

for a bandana tie reference at some point in

one of those three movies, but sadly I don't

think it ever happened, if I remember correctly.

I think that's what the braids were though. Oh

yeah, that's true! yeah that is very sure it's

black but you know i mean yeah you know it's

that's what in my mind that's what that reference

is for it couldn't be it could be because maybe

because he's balding and he needs to hide it

oh yeah um all right any other thoughts on two

uh i it does have one of my favorite parts in

all in the entire rambo franchise when you have

the helicopter hovering over the the water and

you know, they're all kind of laying down and

you know any That's yeah like that what I think

a Rambo. That's one of those, you know top three

men, which I think about For sure and again badass

helicopters that that helicopter fight in the

end. Yeah Say what you well, you know, maybe

not the best made movie that sequence is really

well done. It's well directed. It's well shot

well edited So it really stands alone and it's

a very good it's hard to do aerial combat like

that It still holds up today watch Top Gun a

lot of those action scenes are really look look

like source footage that was made and you know

Edited together poorly that looked great. So

I would I wouldn't indicate that I don't think

it's a good as movie is the first one But it

is entertaining. You gotta give it that. Yeah.

The helicopter fight scene was great. I thought

that was really the chase over the areas and

everything else. And like you said, the filming

of it, the cinematography of it is just so cool.

And as I'm watching it, I'm like, OK, when is

Stringfellow Hawk going to jump in with Airwolf?

Come on now. We got to go past Mach 1 over here.

Cuz when I think of helicopter battles, this

is the first thing I think of is air wolf Yeah,

the second movie. I absolutely love it even today.

I could have sworn That that her her necklace

thing that she gives him. I could have sworn

that was more blue than Aquamarine greenish looking

thing. I don't know. I saw an image of him once

where it was, you know More blue than anything

else anyway Rambo III came out in 88, so three

years after the second one. Troutman is back

to Thailand looking for Rambo, and Rambo is engaging

in some martial arts and all that for money for

the monastery, which is interesting because what

I like about Rambo III is until they pull him

back into the fray of it all, it seems like he's

found some sort of peace. Yeah, yeah, I think

that's so I think this is where we talk, you

know This is where the loss becomes about the

PSA SD Vietnam that specific issue and more about

Rambo the person And is he just Kenny Kenny exists

without war? And I think you know, he somewhat

is at this point in his life, but you know, it's

like you once you think you're out They bring

it back in and I think that's certainly the case

here Yeah, I don't know it's it's so crazy And

this one yeah, like you said it's pretty much

beyond kind of giving us messages about wartime

and and everything else and and it's More so

about Afghanistan and almost you know pretty

it's pretty much about saving Troutman because

He had to go into What is it oh the Soviet base

that's what it is And again most of actually

the second one in the third one deal with Russians,

right? Yeah It's just crazy. Well, no, the second

one's more I mean Tentative intentionally because

Vietnam technically was, you know fight against

communism. So yes Russians Yeah, they both involve

Russians. Yeah third one more directly. Yeah

And I like this one I think it's good, but it's

not as it's not as memorable for me as the as

the second one is No, I know I think it's this

is a case of diminishing returns where I think

you like It's it doesn't really have the same

impact. The story isn't as strong it Like it's

it's I give it credit for trying to like Do something

different with with the character? But eventually

it's like all right. We we get it You're you're

kind of orbiting back with again years and helicopters

again. You're kind of taking the same story and

it's It's a little bit Maybe too big for its

own good where so I think which I think you see

with the next movie We're kind of went back to

where the roots of the program or the roots of

the franchise Yeah And this one kind of I almost

thought this was gonna be shorter than what it

should have been or then what it is because We

have him going into save Troutman the first time

And we've got this little kid sidekick with him

and obviously the first time they fail he gives

the kid the necklace for luck at the end of the

movie but the first time they fail and I'm like

okay so he's just gonna rescue the POWs and that'll

be that already and he's gonna leave Troutman

there and then they go back I'm like oh the movie's

not always it was one of those things where Which

one is it? It's it's not Superman versus the

elite. It's there was one of the DC animated

movies where There was a clear stopping point

to the movie it's one of the Superman ones because

he goes back to the farm and Whatever, but it

was it was like there was a clear stopping point

like it should have ended there And that's how

I felt with Rainbow three that there there should

have been a clearer stopping point After that

first attempt or something is it just I'm like

oh All right, we're continuing on. I guess maybe

it's because of moviemaking back then. They could

fit so much into an hour and 41 minutes or, you

know, two hours or less. Whereas moviemaking

now, it's like, unless it's two and a half hours

or three hours long, you're not getting much.

Yeah. I mean, that's one thing we talked about

with the first few is like, you know, there were

90 minutes, I think was the second film. Like

they were really short. And like to the point

where, yeah, where Rambo I think was it's not

to the point where it's like, you know, Batman

v Superman length with three and a half hours

or whatever that was, but But it I don't know

like III It does for me a movie that came too

late and it just it seems like it's trying to

be the Rambo movie of the past but I thought

the violence was like to a level that was unnecessary

and yeah, like it just it became I might get

it, it's war and it's brutal, but it's just the

point where it's like, okay, like how many times

are you gonna show me a group of people just

being walled to death by bullet fire and over

and over again? And it just, it's like, you know,

I'm not trying to, saying action movies can't

have violence, but I think there's to a level

where it's like, this is just getting, it's getting

kind of repetitive and tiresome. Like there's

that one scene where like he rips the guy's throat

clean off. Which is like ridiculous on a couple

different levels, but and also just the blood

itself I think it was you know, the age of digital

blood and I don't know maybe if they were debating

PG -13 and R So they ended up putting a lot of

digital blood in but it also just looked kind

of fake Which is another problem if you're trying

to have this more pretty You know true to not

true to life but more down -to -earth type of

action movie when you have like clearly digital

blood that looks a color that's not found in

nature, it doesn't have the same effect. Yeah,

and yeah, that was not good. I don't know, three

is just kinda like... I like the action in it,

but it's not as good as the action in the first

two movies. And like you're saying, it went a

little bit more towards the... You know blood

guts and gore action than just you know car chase

flip over that kind of stuff with the With the

fourth film came out 20 years between the third

and the fourth film That's too big of a gap.

I think Personally like look dumb and dumber

came out in the 90s, and they just did dumb and

dumber to a few years ago That was too long 20

Yeah Really doesn't work like sometimes it works.

Okay, like the hustler and the color of money

for example. Mm -hmm It's a pretty big gap between

those movies But it I mean sequel is a strong

word for those and they exist in the same world.

Well, they're not really telling They're not

continuing the same story. Yeah Really really

doesn't work though. Yeah, like and you know

Rambo is such a like we talked about like it

was a character of its time telling a story of

a specific time It tried it like, you know do

that again with a similar situation that was

going on in the world But I don't know if it's

it if it worked personally. Yeah, I I don't think

it did and Can we please move him out of Thailand?

Because in the fourth movie he's still living

over there and by the end of the fourth movie

they mentioned that his father is you know living

you know that he's from Arizona his father you

know still lives there and everything else I'm

like okay well you know we saw way back in in

82 Rambo was in the states because he came home

from the from Vietnam I almost would have liked

to have seen the fourth film be something more

stateside than I mean the four films are right

but Don't know he's playing fairy to a bunch

of missionaries really Like that's the story

you're gonna tell I think my issue with the fourth

film is like especially the beginning well, it's

what's weird is like the action doesn't really

kick into like Minute 60 of the movie, but yeah,

like the beginning of him like the conversations

he's having was like the female missionary like

every bit of dialogue is trying to tell something

profound and trying to like it like it's trying

to be this like deep insight into the character

of Rambo and you know war in general and it's

trying to say a lot but it's trying too hard

to the point what it's doing so transparent it's

it's almost insulting in a way where it's like

it's like it's not a conversation Rambo would

have I feel like and they're trying to and they're

trying to force it on it on it and I just I just

felt that that just felt really I don't get an

organic way to try to force the message in the

movie, you know They had the the one missionary

saying oh Death is never right or like you never

should kill and you're like, okay Obviously he's

gonna get a point in the movie where he's gonna

have to kill somebody because of whatever and

that happens So it it I think it it telegraphed

pretty much everything was gonna do Too much

in that opening, you know that opening debate

with those people just it was a little bit too

much. Yeah Yeah, cuz I mean, you know, okay,

so it's Do we even know what the time period

is? Obviously we know that the film came out

in 2008, but do we know between first blood and

now, in the film universe, what decade that this

is supposed to take place in? Because he's still

living in Thailand, like the first three films,

and that's fine. He wants to live there. Okay,

great. He wants to live a simple life. He wants

to, you know, not... be consumed by being a war

hero or being a warrior in general. And, you

know, you've got these peace -loving missionaries

coming over here to try to do something. I'm

Michael Burnett. Do you have some time to talk?

Won't take long, I promise. I was told it might

be possible to rent your boat. We'd like to do

that. Is that possible? We need to get upriver.

Where are you going? Into Burma. Permit a war

zone. Well, that's what people call it, but it's

more like genocide than war Anyway, this will

be my fifth trip in so we are aware of all the

risks Don't go that far north Let me explain

our situation our church is part of a pan -asian

ministry located in Colorado We're all volunteers

who around this time of year bring in medical

supplies medical attention Prayer books and support

for the Karen tribes people People say you know

the river better than anyone they live So what

I'm asking is that we compensate you for a few

hours of your time that will help change people's

lives Are you bringing any weapons? Of course

not. You're not changing anything. Well, it's

thinking like that that keeps the world the way

it is. Fuck the world. Thinking like that is,

you know, why the world is the way it is. And

he's like, fuck the world. You know? Like, you

know, because this guy has been beaten down so

long. How many times in all? three of these movies,

the first three movies he never, okay yeah the

last one he kinda won but the first two he never

really did win and in the end of the first one

he got arrested and in the second one you know

all that stuff happened and it just seems like

you know he is wanted this fourth film to be

a little bit more I don't mind her trying to

open get him to open up to her that's fine I

don't mind her inspiring him to continue the

fight but her fiance oh my god I'm gonna say

something here folks and if you disagree with

it I'm sorry this is my personal opinion that

guy is a pious piece of shit Well, I think that's

kind of the problem too is like none of them

felt authentic like like beside, you know, they

all felt like Fake like they didn't seem like

they were like their portrayal didn't match the

character trying to play and it I don't know

it it you were Big part of the movie is feeling

sympathetic for them or attempting to and I think

it that never happened It's like like you said

you're just like I don't you know, just I am

waiting for him to die because that'll make me

happy and that's Well hell by the time we get

to the scene where she is Trying to inspire him

to go on thought that was Rambo thinking like

I thought she died I really did like I think

she had gotten captured at that point I didn't

realize they had all gotten I thought they all

got killed because everybody dies in these damn

look at all four of these movies how much death

is in all four of these damn movies I figured

oh she must be dead and then at the end Michael

Michael oh thank God you're alive mmm anyway

I enjoyed this, but it... Honestly, outside of

Brian Tyler's score, it's probably my least favorite

out of the four films. Yeah, to me that's still

the third one. No, I'm saying my least favorite,

not my... The third movie was, oh, go ahead.

It wouldn't be my least favorite, but what I

find kind of funny about the final action beat,

it seems like Salome in this movie is like, yeah,

I'm going to do another Rambo movie, but I don't

want to move a lot. So for a final action scene,

can I just stand in the back of a car shooting

a gun for 10 minutes while everybody else runs

around? Like he legitimately for the biggest

action sequence in the entire movie, he's just

standing there like in that, in that, you know,

shooting that gigantic machine gun. And that's

it. Like that's all he's doing. And it's doing

a lot of destruction. But it's also like, again,

getting the thing I jumped the gun earlier that

that's kind of what I was referring to. This

became way too repetitive. And, you know, it

like Rambo was a one man army back. the day and

this one he's just you know he's not really that

I just felt really okay like we're just gonna

we're gonna just have him stand here and that's

it like there wasn't really a lot of Rambo moments

for a Rambo movie yeah um and for me comparing

the first and the second movies obviously they're

two very different things Going into the first

one not remembering it or not having seen it

before I enjoyed it after the fact I thought

it was a good decent movie. It's just not what

I originally thought it was I Like first blood,

but I like first blood part two better because

it's what And I know I'm always jaded with the

nostalgia and whatever else, but it's one of

those things where it's what I remember a Rambo

movie being of him going back to save POWs or

him going back to fight in the war. I think the

first movie has a decent message, basically showing

everybody, hey, you know, Vietnam War warriors

for the United States had a... hell of a time

and they do try to I would love to see and I

don't think this will ever happen but I would

love to see some sort of like quick recap psychological

retelling of first blood to have like a doctor

of psychology like analyze it with the whole

PTSD thing and everything else I think that would

be really cool today I don't think we need a

Rambo TV series They were gonna make Last Blood,

but that got cancelled because Stallone said

he wanted to retire From being the character,

which is fine. I don't think we need a Rambo

reboot. I know it's probably coming because I

read somewhere that Some director is moving on

without Stallone to do a Rambo reboot film You

know like we've been saying all this time Rambo

is a product of his times these films are a product

of The times, you know, the first film was released

10 years after Vietnam was closing down, you

know, the second film was released, you know,

pretty much 30 years ago, 32 years ago at this

point. And there have been so many other war

films, war movies that I don't think you could

do a Rambo reboot and put him in Fallujah or

Afghanistan now or anything with Desert Storm

or Desert Shield or anything with any of the

wars that we've had recently. I just don't think

it would work. Even if you recast the character,

it just wouldn't work. Especially that the first

film because like we talked about like the the

mindset has changed a lot um And I think it would

be I don't know somewhat the states was not the

right word, but Uh, it's a it's a character of

that time And I don't know if you can try to

recreate again like sometimes it works like James

Bond was very much a character of the cold war

But they were able to reinvent him for a new

age and that worked I don't think Rambo Rambo

is different because it's just one guy, you know,

it's just Stallone's character I couldn't it's

so tied into Stallone. I couldn't see anyone

ever being rocky. I couldn't ever see anyone

being You know the Rambo like they've tried it

with Terminator They've tried to do Terminator

and like make someone else to Terminator and

it's never worked and I don't see it I I let

this franchise go I think it you know, even like

the the where we were seeing the mission returns

with the movie that came out in 1988 2018 I don't

think you're gonna it's gonna make that any difference.

So I agree. Yeah No, I mean we're 30 years almost

30 years away from the third film and you're

right. It's just It's time to let this character

and this franchise kind of go it really is I

mean, you know if you want and they've done like

I said They have done other War movies, you know,

there have been plenty of other war movies And

I I really do hate to say this but while Rambo

himself is Remembered as a staple of the 80s

Personally, I don't think the franchise is the

character and what his actions were in the movies

are and the look of him is But the actual content

of the films, no. Before we get out of here,

before we take a quick break, what would you

rate each of these, zero to five? Zero to five,

okay. So the first one, I think the first one's

a four out of five for me. Second with 3 .5.

The third one, I'd go two and a half. Now two

for the third and then for the for the rainbow

for two and a half For me the first one I will

give a three and a half the second one I will

give a four third one I'll give a two and a half

and fourth one a Three maybe I don't know I really

thought I was going to have more fun with this

franchise. I love seeing Stallone in the character.

I love him as that character. I just was expecting

something total. I didn't have high or low expectations

either way. I wasn't like, I didn't over romanticize

the memories of these movies because as I've

already said, I only really remember the second

one, you know? And going into it fresh, I thought

I was going to come out with more respect. For

the character. I don't have any more or less

than I already did but These stories these these

plots for these movies are not what I had originally

thought they would be That's not necessarily

a good or a bad thing I Don't know we're gonna

take a quick break We're gonna come back to close

the show tell you what's coming up next See what

Dan's got going on for talking in circles and

other projects and whatever else we'll be back

after this Now for a behind -the -scenes look

at GeekCast Radio Network's newest show Talking

in Circles. So, Chuck, Greg, what are you guys

thinking for this week's show? Well, Dan, how

about we just talk about the things that we've

read or watched this week? We do reviews like

that every week, Chuck. How about a game like

Factor Fiction or The Power of Names? Those are

great, and we're always coming up with new ideas

for games. And how about some top fives? You

know how I love my top fives. What about... Tournament

style brackets or sequel reboot and destroy who

will win in a fight taking too far crazy, but

true news or yes It appears we have lots of things

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on iTunes or geek cast radio .com the geek cast

radio network Hey, Dan, who's the guy with the

creepy voice? We are back here on movie we can

review and That's gonna do it for us. What is

coming up on talking in circles. What do you

guys get going on over there? Well, we'll probably

be bringing up some of the key going over talking

about some of the key comic book and superhero

stuff going on including in the world of comics

movies and all that good stuff and so Lot lot

of fun in store cinema geeks. We're continuing

Looking at him Miyazaki movies. That's almost

done and over with and then we saw So many video

games still talk about that man that that eats

away your soul But the outside of that I'm still

keeping up block series see a bunch of stuff

coming up on different huge You know classic

comic books like why the last man preachers in

city going through those and then my movies to

show my son series You know variety big movies.

I'm gonna I'm planning some major stuff for the

week spiderman homecoming comes out a lot of

spiderman related material some Comic book and

movie related so look forward to that coming

up We are still, as of this recording, we're

still figuring out what the next GCR in top 100

is going to be. Voting on that ended as of this

recording. For MYR, coming up next, we've got

Eduardo is going to join me for the Karate Kid

franchise, so we're going to be waxing on and

off about that. After that, I don't know who's,

I think Steve, you, and Kevin are joining me

for... The Force Awakens inside Rogue One where

we talk about the two latest Star Wars films.

That's gonna be a strange and interesting episode

considering one is the first chapter of the third

set of films and then the other one is the in

-betweener between the third and the fourth film

of the franchise. Oh God. So that's what's coming

up here on MWIRE. Where can the people find you

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will catch you next time here on movie week in

review know anything about a guy named John Rambo

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