Interview with S.A. Bradley on Horror as Art and Catharsis

Hello and welcome to Geekcast Radio presents

an interview that will also be syndicated on

AlterGeek and Studio 2009. I'm one of your hosts

for this evening, Steve Megatron, and joining

me is my usual partner in podcasting crime, TFG1

Mike. Hello. Coming to the studio tonight is

Scott Bradley, and if you're not familiar with

Scott, he's a podcaster, knowledgeable in all

things horror. The host of the Hellbent on Horror

podcast, and he's also the author of Screaming

for Pleasure. And if that's not enough, he's

been featured on SyfyWire and many other media

places. Hello, Scott, and welcome to the show.

Hi, folks. Thanks so much for having me on. Yeah,

thanks for joining us. Yes, thank you for being

here. During the high holidays here, Halloween,

that is. Oh, yeah, yeah. Perfect timing, too,

you know. Yes. We usually, you know have a good

sense of timing around here. Well, it was also

beneficial because your your Contact I met through

podcast movement. Oh Wonderful set. Yeah, Sarah,

right? Yeah Yeah, and it was it was great because

we were on you know watching a couple of different

panel things and then she reached out to me and

I was like, oh, yeah totally So yeah, that was

that was a kind of A work in fate for the time

of year it is. It's amazing how it happens that

way. I do find that if you open yourself to whatever's

going on out there, you tend to find people who

are at least curious about what you're doing.

Yeah, totally. So Mike, without further ado.

What were you going to say, Scott? Sorry. I was

just basically going to say that I find that

with doing a horror podcast whenever I Speak

to people about hell been for horror and they

asked me what I'm doing and I say well I talk

about all things hard half of the time. It's

oh wow and the other half. It's like oh isn't

that nice? In both directions whenever I have

a conversation like that whether someone really

likes horror or they don't we talk about the

same amount of time about 20 minutes go by before

we realize the time has passed because it's a

very passionate subject, whether you like it

or not. You find that you probably have distinct

opinions about it. And I find that a lot of the

people who listen to my show will start. getting

in touch with me by way of email, and they'll

start the email by saying, I'm not really a horror

fan, but. And they somehow stumbled upon what

I was doing. And just starting a conversation

is what I usually try to do. And it's amazing

how much you can really get into that passion,

that geek passion that goes through any kind

of pop culture. But it really does. There's something

universal about horror that people definitely

have an opinion. Yeah, that's actually funny

because some of us on this network have a higher

or lower opinion or kind of indifferent in general

on it, but it is true. Everybody pretty much

has an opinion on that one genre over many of

the others. Yeah, I think the genre is... I'm

a genre guy, first off. And I like to say that

I've always been in love with the cinema and

that I love all kinds of movies. My heart belongs

to the horror film. And it's because it connected

with me very early. And I like to say that people

have a first kiss with horror. And sometimes

it doesn't go well, and sometimes it does. And

that passion can... color how you look at the

entire genre. I find that people who dislike

horror tend to look at it from the movie that

they hated or that they were scared by. And they

assume that all of horror is going to be that.

And people who are huge fans tend to think that

all horror movies should be exactly like the

one that they love. And that's the only thing

that horror is. And both of those ways are quite

limiting. The reality is horror is truly universal.

There's a story out there for everyone. And I

assure you that it isn't all about gore. It isn't

all about dread, and there's some story out there

that is waiting for you to be able to be a release

from the pressure cooker of life. There's certainly

an interesting way of putting it that I've never

thought of. Yeah, exactly. So as we get started,

could you tell our listeners a little bit about

your background? Sure. Well, I am an author,

a speaker, and a podcaster. As mentioned before,

I have a podcast called Hellbent for Horror.

I'm here to remind you that you used to love

horror movies and you secretly still do. And

that podcast is about everything that's related

to horror. I talk about horror as art and social

commentary. I talk about movies and the books

and stories and even music that shaped me. I

like to talk about how music is a lot like horror

as well, or vice versa. And all of that stuff

shapes horror as a film style and an art form.

Culture changes art. Art changes culture. And

the book, Screaming for Pleasure, How Horror

Makes You Happy and Healthy, is a love letter

to all those things that go bump in the night.

But not only that, it's about how horror reinvents

itself to reflect each generation's anxieties.

It can also be healing as well as thrilling.

I think that horror is one of the most diverse

and beautiful storytelling styles that we have.

It may be one of the oldest storytelling styles.

It's also tailor -made for allegory. It's tailor

-made for metaphor. It really allows us to talk

about uncomfortable subjects that we never sit

to watch in a straight drama. So it allows for

this visceral exploration of what makes us human.

It talks about the Emotions that sometimes we

don't want to look at. The Jungian style, the

shadow self. Having a healthy, safe handshake

with that part of us that everybody has. It gives

us a place to confront our own monsters that

can't be ignored. A lot of times we look to science

fiction for allegory and metaphor as well. And

horror goes on the other side of that. And I

think horror and science fiction ask two specific

questions of the human experience. Science fiction

asks, how are we going to live with technology,

what is it going to do to us? And horror asks,

where are monsters from? And the answer is almost

always right between our eyes or in our heart

or in our stomach. It tends to come from us.

Wow. Or the internet. Yeah, and the internet.

Well, it kind of bleeds both, you know, sci -fi

and horror. Yes, I took it as a hybrid vigor

is one of the great things about horror. It's

like I look at it as like Frank's Red Hot. It

goes with everything. You basically just put

a dash here and there. And horror is like a magnificent

mutt. Hybrid vigor is the idea of mutt versus

a purebred. Purebred would be the thing that

you know what it's going to be. It's very dependable.

And it does have its issues. If you continue

to do the same thing again and again and again,

it kind of destroys the gene pool. The idea of

hybrid vigor is your mutts get together and you

find the best of all of those breeds coming together.

you have something surprising. And horror does

mix with comedy. It mixes with science fiction.

It mixes with the drama westerns. You can find

anything because it's not really about a setting.

Horror is an emotion first and a setting later.

It really is all about what kind of emotions

it can evoke from you. And so I look at it as

science fiction and horror. They're strange bedfellows

sometimes, but they really go together. very

well. Alien would be a great example. So what

specifically drove you into the genre? Was it

a specific film? Was it certain type of music?

What was it that kind of drove you into it? That's

a great question because I was a scaredy cat

as a kid. I was afraid of everything and I grew

up as a child my parents were in a fundamentalist

Christian cult basically I thought that the world

was gonna end in 1975 it didn't so that was kind

of embarrassing for everybody. I'm sure It was

one of those things where we are afraid of everything.

I was taught to be afraid And early on, I saw

a movie that I shouldn't have seen. And so I

saw this movie that was out in the 1970s called

Don't Look Now. And it's not very well -known

except for in -har and art films, actually, in

those areas. People are big on this film because

it has one of the most disturbing beginnings

to it. And it's about a couple of parents who

unwittingly let their child drown in the backyard.

And it was this really artistic, very strange,

surreal, time -bending storyline. And I saw it

when I was eight, by mistake. My parents were

in process of getting divorced, and they were

having arguments. And they just basically gave

me the TV as a babysitter. And we just happened

to have home box office when it was very early,

when it was just starting out. And so this movie

was on in the middle of the day, and it shouldn't

have been on. And I watched it, and I went into

shock. It was a child about my age. Drowning

and the parents running out trying to save her

and this very weird look And I was I had nightmares

for three nights in a row, but what ended up

happening was I kind of felt like for the first

time I felt kind of seen the thing that was scary

wasn't that a child Drowned that was of course

kind of frightening, but the thing was parents

couldn't save the kid And so I suddenly realized,

you know, at that age, obviously I'm not articulating

this, but what I got was that I was suddenly

calm about how I could not control anything in

my life. I mean, the fact that I was in this

religion where demons were in every closet and

my parents are getting divorced and my life is

splitting apart, I didn't understand any of it

and it was out of my control. But all of a sudden

being scared was controllable. It was controllable

by watching a movie that allowed me to look at

the things that were frightening me and endure

them and make it through to the other side. And

I always had the choice to shut it off. And for

some strange reason, that worked for me. And

I found that there's a contingency of people

who love horror films that had experiences somewhat

like that, maybe a little bit older in their

life, whatever it was, they felt connected to

the extreme of a horror film. And it really does

come down to, I don't want to do these things,

but I do enjoy the experience of finding myself

being able to endure the uncomfortable thing.

And I like to look at it in that Jungian way,

which is that we all have a shadow self. It is

this thing that is boiling inside of us. We have

the persona, which is the face we put on to be

liked, like what I'm doing right now. But then

there is the shadow self, which is that internal

little lizard brain. And it's there for everyone,

and it functions. It has a function for us. It

allows us to know right and wrong. It allows

us to have a conscience. But it is something

that needs to be indulged every so often. If

you ignore the shadow, Jung says you do that

at your own peril. In other words, if you ignore

the fact that you have this thing, sooner or

later it bursts to the forefront. It is a spoiled

brat. And the next thing you know, you're getting

divorced, you're in trouble for embezzling, whatever

it might be, that dark side taste. over. And

so the horror film and other ways of working

with the shadow is like a safe handshake. It

allows us to examine this part of us which feels

dark and say, okay, I accept that that's there.

I'm able to get over some shame about that, perhaps.

Whatever it might be, the horror film allows

me to have the ability to look at things that

I may not want to look at in the bright daylight.

But the horror film allows me to look at what's

happening in my culture. at any given point.

If you look at the horror films from even the

30s onward, even the worst ones, the ones that

only showed on drive -ins at midnight, those

movies do stamp the time and the history of what's

happening in the culture at that moment. They

eat to know what makes us anxious. So they will

exploit what is anxious. So you can literally

see how it's almost like an exorcism. It's like

music. Music isn't something that you intellectually

get. You might talk about it later on an intellectual

level. The first thing you do is you feel. What

does it make you feel? And horror does the same

thing, because sometimes I think you will find

that the intellect is part of the problem. You

know, somebody asks you what's wrong. You go,

I can't articulate it. I don't have an answer

for you. But you can feel something in music

and it can change your feelings and your emotions

in one note. And I think the horror film allows

us to exercise in that nasty stuff on a very

primal level. And it also allows us to think

about it later on. And so that's a little bit

of the kind of thing that I really enjoy about

horror. And yes, I think about it a little bit

differently than some folks do. I think that's

great, though, because you have a Unique and

interesting perspective to it where like you

mentioned earlier about how some people are just

in the blood guts and gore Area of it other people

are in, you know, whatever other, you know the

more sci -fi part of it kind of thing and you're

just kind of like All of it makes sense and matters

at the same time The thing for me is as I said

off air I saw the first Nightmare on Home Street

film when I was six years old. My parents had

been divorced for four years at that point. They

divorced when I was two, so I didn't really have

that whole, like, I just knew I was going with

my mom, and I went to see my dad on weekends

if possible kind of thing. And my mom just let

me, I've said this on our network here for the

last 12 years many times, my mom let me watch

anything. It didn't matter what it was. And half

the time she was watching with me, I wasn't.

Watching it alone unless she fell asleep on the

couch and Robert stack was scaring the crap out

of me on unsolved mysteries Because Robert stack

was that kind of person and that kind of actor

too. He just you know says I Can't deal with

that now and you jump out of your skin So it's

one of those things for me where this is interesting

talking to you and hearing your aspect of Something

that while I have a healthy respect for it It's

also my thing of, it really isn't my thing. Right,

right. And I don't tell people that they must

watch horror films. I don't think that that's

a prerequisite of life. But I do think that a

lot of times when you have an experience like

you've had, terribly valid, right? And I had

the same thing, except I went in a different

direction. I was scared of it and I couldn't,

I wanted to see it again. I was somehow fascinated

with that Weird emotion that I felt and it was

somehow a purgative for me But I will say that

what ends up happening when you do have a scare

like that like my wife is a sci -fi fan She's

an original trekker, right? And so she was like

no way in hell am I watching horror films? And

I remember when we were dating all those years

ago Nightmare on Elm Street was weirdly enough

the movie that I decided to take her to and she

kind of went into a fugue state just kind of

Went into a some kind of pupa But she was like,

I don't need to ever see that again. But after

spending some time speaking with me, I was going,

you know, you're probably watching horror and

you don't even know it. Because horror is such

an incredibly broad. Uh genre it really does

go across to all the different kind of storylines

And what defines horror is it's a terribly subjective

thing, right? What scares me may not scare you

what interests me may not interest you and uh,

there is still room for Uh, the the horror experience

so I look at it as I make the definition very

very broad If you look at the dictionary version

of what the definition is of horror. It's an

intense feeling of fear discussed terror or dread.

Dread being a very important word in that. And

so I say that a horror film is a movie that gives

you those intense feelings of either revulsion,

fear, terror, or dread. And so that opens it

up quite a bit. The idea that a movie like Robert

Wise's The Haunting from 1960 is a horror film

as much as the Texas Chainsaw Massacre is, or

Gremlins is a horror film. We don't like to think

of it as a horror film sometimes because it's

fun. But the reality is if you look at it, where

it is going and what it wants to do is try to

scare you. It gives you a resolution at the end,

but there is a, you must, at least what I do

is I ask why. Why does the filmmaker wish to

use the tropes of horror to tell its story? And

if it wants to tell this story, what does it

want you to go home with? What energy does it

want you to go home with? So what I basically

get at is that there are multiple styles of horror

film that people watch and they don't think of

it as a horror film. Aliens sometimes is considered

a horror film, sometimes it's not. The original

Frankenstein is a horror film, the book is a

horror story, but it's also a science fiction

story. It depends on which direction you want

to look at it. But I find that a lot of times

whatever scares you first or mars you first,

you assume that that's the depth, breadth and

scope of the horror film. And the reality is

the horror film is much more diverse. than many

of us will give it credit for. It's the redheaded

stepchild. It does all those things we don't

want it to do. But that's its form, right? If

we're talking about, say, Joseph Campbell going

into the woods for the hero's journey, the woods

don't come to you. You must go to the woods.

And the woods and the scary place where he loses

the dog are important to the hero's journey.

And therefore, as far as I'm concerned, the horror

story is as well. You don't have to dwell in

it. But there is something to be said about finding

the story which is going to be of interest to

you, all the way back to, you know, The Legend

of Sleepy Hollow by Disney, all the way up to

the most crazy torture porn that's out there.

It all falls under, for better or for worse,

the horror umbrella. And I think that it is telling

important stories about us. And the funny thing

is, is that for me, I'm gonna relate this to

Steve as well because for him he's more of he

out of the two of us He's the die -hard Trekkie.

I'm more of a casual Trekkie where I I grew up

Watching next -gen. I'd seen a cut like I have

not seen all of TOS and I probably never will

I just at this point in my life I have no interest

but hold on so for me now though with horror

Feel like I'm more of a lurker than anything

else because I try to find the most tame horror

films in the world like the hand that rocks the

cradle and Freddy's dead the final nightmare

I think we can all agree for nightmare on Elm

Street part six was not exactly super scary,

right? Yeah They're wonderful dread -inducing

horror films. I can give you a list of movies.

There's a movie in 1987 called The Lady in White

you may enjoy. It's funny that you mentioned

Trek because a number of the films actually are

horror movies, as well as there are standalone

episodes of multiple series that are that. They

may not be blood, guts, and gore, but they analyze

some part of the human psyche in a weird and

creepy way. Oh, yeah. Yes. Doctor Who, almost

all of Doctor Who is science fiction and horror

melded together. And Doctor Who is right. It's

an interesting thing. I don't know if you folks

know anything about Doctor Who or watch it, but

They have a Christmas show that comes out of

the BBC every year and people are like, why is

that there? And it's like, that's an old time

honored thing in England. And it used to be here

as well, which is that there used to be a Christmas

ghost story that would be told. That was tradition.

And part of that tradition is the Scrooge story.

And I'm forgetting the name of the story all

of a sudden. But that comes out of this idea

of a Christmas Carol, right? So a Christmas Carol

is a ghost story. And it is a time loved, but

it comes from like M .R. James, who was an old

time writer who used to come up with these ghost

stories. And they would tell one traditionally

around Christmas. And so the idea of Dr. Who

comes from that. And Dr. Who is this... character

from another planet who takes people on these

these trips kind of like the guide the guide

on the the ferryman on the river sticks and for

lack of a better analogy but he's usually with

monsters Now, he's usually taking on monsters.

And so people talk about when they were kids

watching Doctor Who, even though it's mostly

called a science fiction story, that they would

hide behind their couch watching it, because

you have the Daleks, which are exterminators.

You have the Zygons that are these... sucker

-faced monsters. Most of the time, it's dealing

with space ghosts of some sort, or space monsters.

So there's a great persuasion towards horror

in science fiction. And like was mentioned, Star

Trek has many. episodes like that. The concept

of Q, anytime they're going up against gods or

creatures that consider themselves gods, you're

falling into the myth of the horror story. And

I think it's kind of interesting and intriguing

why I like both. Or like the Borg. Yeah, the

Borg are absolute nightmare factories, right?

In fact, I was like thoroughly transfixed. That's

what helped me get into the next generation even

more. I was like, oh, my goodness, look at these

guys. And so why do we go there, right? Because

there's something to be said about us when we

look at the Borg. What do we not want to be?

Invasion of the body snatchers. You know, there's

been four versions of invasion of the body snatchers

over the decades, one for each interesting decade,

I guess. And each of them talked about what was

happening in our culture. It was all about losing

identity, you know, losing what we are. What

makes me, me? What makes you, you? Is it our

personalities? Is it our memories? And so I'm

really, I'm always intrigued by that kind of

thing. And I think science fiction and horror

mixed together really gives us a lot of possibilities.

And I think movies like and stories like Invasion

of the Body Snatchers land purely in the horror

milieu. They use science fiction as a way to

separate the myth from the reality of what's

happening, like McCarthyism or commercialism,

the Me Generation and Est and things like that.

Absolutely. Yeah, that's definitely, I think,

part of what creates that draw with people. Yeah,

I like to think so. And if I'm talking too much,

as you can tell, I don't have a problem talking.

Let me know when you want to ask a question.

I haven't been talking for almost a year at this

point, except in short bursts. So I'm about ready

to explode myself. Like I said before, I'm kind

of on the fringes of horror. Honestly, I'm more

into not full -on horror comics, but I realize

that because of the company that I work with

or have worked with in the past, Xenoscope Entertainment,

who does the Grim Fairy Tales comics, I'm fine

with all of that, because it's magic and horror

and everything kind of all in one. I'm fine with

that. But it's just something about TV and movies

that the horror genre is just... respectfully

backed away. You hit on something really important

because I talk about horror, not only movies.

I mean, most of the time I end up speaking about

movies because that's what everybody basically

touches on. It's the most, it's the mashed potatoes

of the world of entertainment, movies. But the

thing that I... like to say is, you know, I wasn't

watching horror movies and R rated films or anything

when I was a kid. I was reading so comic books.

Tales from the Crypt, some of the early Batmans

or the Batmans from the 70s had some really horrific

ideas in them. There was Creepy Magazine, and

House of Secrets, and the Dracula, the Marvel

run of Dracula, which was absolutely magnificent,

done by the great Gene Colen. He was one of my

favorite artists, that is. And all of those were

truly great. and they were absolutely terrifying,

but there is something that is different between

reading a book and watching a movie. You're kind

of on a out -of -control train when you're watching

a movie, whereas a book, you're willingly putting

your toe deeper and deeper into the tub every

page that you're reading, and you have the opportunity

to stop it at any time, but you also have...

The two -edged sword of it is that your mind

will think of things far more horrible than any

effects budget could possibly give when you're

reading something that is a book. But that's

the quiet revolution. I was in a household that

was highly fundamentalist, right? So there were

many things I was not allowed to do. But my dad

was functionally illiterate. And so he looked

at books as homework. and I ended up being someone

who was a reader, so he never understood why

anybody would read a book for pleasure. And he

looked at books as very toothless and tame and

boring He had no clue it was in books and that's

where the quiet revolution happens all my bad

habits all my nasty thoughts came from books

first that was the first Corrupter and so when

I went to the library and I started I started

in science fiction I started as them off a and

just worked my way through but I found the horror

section kind of lost myself in there and all

of that stuff was where I got so many of the

ideas and it's a interesting place to go. I think

it's just as enriching as any horror film. It's

another way that you can have your dose of horror

and deal with it well. You know, comic books

are a wonderful in between the novel and the

film. Absolutely. I remember, and you probably

remember this as well, one of the books that

scared me so Much as a kid in reading was John

Belair's the curse of the blue figurine. Oh nice

Yeah, I'm like, oh my like like that book gave

me nightmares It really really did and it was

and you're right the reading of horror of horror

is I think it whether it's comics whether it's

actual reading books and just leaving it up to

your imagination. I think I had read a short

story in 88 when I was eight years old that then

gave me a nightmare of a wolf man in my closet.

The next thing I know I'm being rushed to the

hospital because I had a seizure. Oh my goodness.

Yeah. I was just about to say that it's a great

starter for folks, anybody who's listening and

is like, well, I don't know, maybe I'll be interested

in reading something. But I would say go to anthology

books because the investment of a short story

is not nearly as much as it is for a novel. And

a good short story is like a punch to the chest.

and it can be truly, uh, uh, chilling. And then

you can release yourself into the next story

if you so wish. Uh, even old stories, ones from

the forties, uh, I find can be very appealing.

Uh, there's one called the man from the south

that probably everybody knows and they don't

know that they know it, but I think it was a

road doll story. And it was about, uh, couple,

a woman and a man down in a bar in some seedy

area in South America. And there's this guy,

this diminutive fellow in a white suit. And he's

the couple are sitting there and they're kind

of brash Americans in this place. And this guy

keeps flicking his lighter lazily. And this man

in the white suit comes over and he goes, I will

give you my car. If you can get that lighter

to like 10 times in a row without failing. Do

you feel strongly about that? All I ask and if

you think that you're really tough is I want

to be able to have you tie your hand down with

your pinky extended. And I will take a knife

or a hatchet, and I will cut off your pinky if

you miss a beat. Do you feel like you're a gambling

man? And it becomes this whole story of wits,

but it's all about, can he light this thing 10

times? That story is ancient, and yet when you're

reading it... As improbable as it sounds that

anybody would get into that, you are completely

engrossed in it and there are tons of old stories

like that that can really chill you without even

having to go to ghosts and demons and monsters.

Absolutely. Absolutely. With you having this

book called Screaming for Pleasure, what are

some gems in your book that people can hope to

uncover as they dive in? Well, what I talk about

a lot is trying to first off, I mean, it's called

how hard makes you happy and healthy. Well, how

does it make you? healthy, right? It's happy

and healthy, but it's not going to cure lumbago,

right? I'm talking more about trying to find,

and it's just like any kind of geekery, right?

It's the idea of finding your passion and feeling

complete in that passion. So when I talk about

making it happy and healthy, it's talking about

the little things in life, really, the emotional

release that you can have through a horror story.

You can find a way to take a look at some of

the darker sides of yourself and come to terms

with that. Find out that it's okay. Find out

there are no bad emotions. They're just emotions.

There are bad things that you can do around those

emotions, but the emotion themselves are not

out to hurt you. They're there for you to be

able to figure out a good way to live your life.

But there's also the idea of a sense of play.

So many of us as adults lose a sense of play.

People who are geeks, fellow geeks, understand

that a sense of play will stay with you as long

as you keep with your passions. Horror is just

as much a viable and a place to find your passions

as anything else. You also find a tribe, right?

You're able to find people who have the same

kind of feelings as you do about story. And if

you are gravitating towards a story that a lot

of people tend to look down their nose at, you

kind of find that you have a mentality of really

feeling a kinship with people who are in that

same boat. So if you're feeling a little bit

better about yourself, you find that you get

yourself a community, you're able to find a sense

of play, it sounds like you have a pretty good

life. And that's what I think happens with horror.

So I talk a lot about how the first kiss is in

you and we all have our own corruptors. And at

some points we find ourselves in science fiction.

Sometimes we find ourselves in fantasy and romance.

Sometimes we find ourselves in straight drama.

Sometimes we find ourselves in football, right?

In sports, another geek art that is just somehow

more socially acceptable. But at the same point,

it is a geek art to put someone else's name on

your jacket and your jersey and walk around and

extend the virtues of them. There's not much

of a difference between that and a Klingon badge,

quite honestly, as far as I'm concerned. It all

comes from a concept of having passion. So I

talk about whether it be movies or be music.

or be books, there's something out there waiting

for you. and we kind of need it. Horror has been

around since the beginning, the first campfire

I like to say, and I talk about that in the book,

where the first story is the elder around the

first campfire going, thank you everyone for

being here, praise the earth, praise the fire,

praise the animals and the food that we have,

we are all family, we are strength, we are strong

together, thank you for all being here, tribe.

And the second story is, whatever you do, don't

go into those woods, there's a monster in those

woods, stay with us. don't go out there. So that

means that the horror story is the second story.

It's the cautionary tale. And the cautionary

tale is important to our growth. And so I look

at finding that thing that speaks for us. Why

is horror so old? Because I believe it fulfills

a need in society. It's not a cultural need.

it's not a social need, it's a human need. We

have a need to be able to question the brightness

of the light. The only way that you have shadows

is through light. So being able to go into the

darkness and finding the thing that is actually

affirming is a lot of what I talked about in

there as well. But I, of course, talk about lots

of movies and I talk about a lot of nasty movies

as well as sweet movies and movies that deal

more in dread. Than they do anything else and

in case you guys wanted to have a list. I was

trying to figure out what you might want So we

all know the old movies and if you're a horror

fan There's plenty that I could talk about that

you're like, yes I've seen those a lot of horror

fans will say that there aren't any good movies

now So what I did is I made a list of the movies

that probably not only show the broadness of

storylines that horror can take and the styles

that it can take, but also these movies are only

five years old or less. Oh wow. And I've probably

got 30 of them that you could watch. Oh wow.

That have different styles to them. You know,

movies that are more horror, that are straight

up horror that you would normally expect. Movies

that are more psychological. Movies that are

hammer films, if you folks know anything about

hammer films, they're old Dracula movies from

England that had big castles and women and bodice

rippers, basically. They're wearing those wonderful

dresses that show off a little bit too much cleavage.

Those kind of movies with a high romance factor.

To movies that are more about the psychological

dread of guilt and grief. One of the things that

I think is really interesting about horror movies

now is that they are dealing in the unpopular,

uncomfortable emotions, putting those into the

main characters. So it used to be where it was,

well, I'm just an innocent guy kind of walking

down the street, and what happens? There's an

ax murder. But now there's movies about cowardice.

There's movies about grief, lots of movies about

grief. about how hard it is to be a parent and

these are the monsters these are the stressors

that are in these movies now and I find it great

and there's still the the science fiction side

there's still the demonic side the monster movie

side and because we have streaming now as well

as cinema as well as what's on the internet,

as well as YouTube and Alter, which is a part

of YouTube that's all devoted to horror. There

are so many different avenues. There are so many

different streams. Whereas maybe in the 80s,

you could say, ah, most horror movies were slasher

films. And they were, because there were only

a few areas that horror was coming from. Now

people are able to watch Asian horror films as

easily as they could a movie that was made. in

Canada or in the United States due to streaming

services like Amazon and Netflix and Shudder,

which is a 24 -hour, 364, all -hour, all -the

-time channel. And that channel will show you

all the different styles that are out there.

So if we were like to say, to look at 2015, just

five years ago, we've got a movie like Crimson

Peak, which is a Guillermo del Toro film. Most

people know at least the name Guillermo del Toro.

He's the king of the monsters, but he made a

movie that was basically like an old hammer film

about a romantic cursed love and ghosts inside

of an old mansion up on the hill that has this

weird tendency to have iron deposits come up

through the snow. So it looks like blood all

the time around it. It's one of the most beautiful

films that you'll see, very melodic and lyric.

It's not going to scare you. It's there to enthrall

you. you with the poetry of horror. And I think

the poetry of horror is very important to speak

of. There is a way to speak about the un tantalizing

portions of our lives, the things like abuse,

child abuse, and death. that can be turned into

something romantic through the poetry of horror.

And so Crimson Peak is very much a supple, delicious

bouquet of visual imagery. And then there's a

movie like The Invitation, which is about the

death of a child and cults. And it is a very

disturbing story of a father who has divorced

his wife. She has left him for a long period

of time because of the death of their child.

and all of a sudden he gets an email from her

and a phone call it says I'm back in town I would

love to have you and your new girl come to see

how I'm doing and that I'm okay and that I found

friends and she ends up having been involved

in the cult and she's trying to get him involved

as well and it is this story where you're not

sure through the entire film is he paranoid?

Is he having flights of fancy? Is he so uncomfortable

being around his old love and having the scabs

torn from the death of his child? Or is there

really something truly diabolical going on inside

of this house? It's a really interesting story.

The Witch is another one that came out that same

year. The Witch, or a New England tale as it's

called, is a story that tries to... show itself

as if it is happening in the 1600s, back when

we have nothing but Puritans in the world here

in the United States. And it's just the colonies.

And we have a family that leaves the village

because the Puritans aren't pure enough for this

father. So he decides to go out and do some homesteading

himself. And while he's out there, he brings

all the superstitions of witches into the woods

where he lives. What's interesting about The

Witch is it can be looked at in two different

ways. It's either a movie full of supernatural

or it is all about a family slowly going crazy

in the isolation of the woods in a world where

the only reality is the Bible. These are all

happening in the same year. The Lazarus Effect

is a story about the acid tests that the CIA

were doing back in the 70s and 80s. And that's

been uncovered now, but this is a whole story

about maybe that opened up a different dimension.

Maybe acid highs and the trips that are there

are really a portal into a different place. What

if whatever you saw actually stepped out into

the real world? very interesting idea for that,

and ghost stories, demon stories, there are stories

in just one year that go across the idea of suspensers,

real world situations, movies that are... You

are here happening as if they're on camera. You

have movies that are coming from different eras.

You have horror that is based in the supernatural

demons. You have real serial killer types. You

have movies where it may all be happening inside

of someone's head. And there are movies that

are happening not only in the United States,

but are happening across the world. And that's

one year. And that's just half of the movies.

that I could talk about from 2015, let alone

where we go from there. And so there's almost

an endless fountain. of story ideas that horror

can do. There are tropes, there are cliches,

but there is always a way to transcend them.

And the good thing about horror is it never throws

anything away. It's kind of like the great garbage

collector, and it turns things into art by continuing

to change everything that it touches into a new

storyline. Absolutely. Yeah. In a year where

this year has kind of been horrific for most

people, earlier you mentioned a movie, I think

you might have mentioned this off air, I don't

remember, that looks like it was done on Zoom.

Talk about that a little bit. What was that movie?

Oh yeah, that's great. So, Host is a movie that

was made in the UK. And it's entirely done on

Zoom. So one of the things that Ahar is great

at is that, like I said, it doesn't throw anything

away. It can't help but comment on what's going

on because it is already working in the world

of fancy. And it is already working on an idea

that the rules of physics don't necessarily have

to apply. You are allowed to take a look at the

world through a distorted mirror. And so horror

tends to be the place where a lot of what's going

on in the world first breaks into popular culture.

And so this movie, Host, is basically shot on

a Zoom. And so there's a Zoom meeting. Each of

the actors was responsible for recording their

part. So just like any Zoom meeting, the movie

starts with people slowly coming on. It's where

horror gets very interesting. We are so used

to the lexicon of what movies are supposed to

look like, what YouTube is supposed to look like,

and what Zoom is supposed to look like. Those

are visual styles that are now part of cinema,

whether we want it to be or not. There has been

so much that's happened on Zoom that we are now

very much acquainted with the look of a Zoom

meeting, where it used to be something that would

be tacky, maybe the lighting didn't look great.

We now make, like found footage films, we now

make concessions for that because that is part

of our reality at this point. It doesn't have

to look like it's a 35 millimeter film that's

done perfectly. So using all of the limitations

and the expectations that we have around Zoom,

they created a really interesting horror movie.

One of the things that they did is they created

a time bomb that's in the movie by using one

of the free versions of Zoom. In other words,

your movie is only going to be an hour and 10

minutes long. Once they start the interview and

start recording, there is a timer, right? They're

going to run out of time. So no matter what is

happening on the screen, you are aware that you

may not see what happens to everybody. You may

not be able to find out what's going on and that

adds attention immediately. People are using

fake backgrounds, green screen backgrounds, and

all that becomes integral to the story. So people

are coming on and they're all getting together

because they can't get together. They're in different

areas and one of them wants to do a seance. So

they ask a friend who's the hippie tippy one

out of them to bring a actual medium. to the

thing and of course they're making jokes about

it they're doing all this stuff and the woman

says light a candle you see everybody lighting

the candles and she's taking it very seriously

the person who's invited her is taking it seriously

but many of the friends are openly mocking this

person and that person's trying to uh do this

as nice as possible they have a lot of fake jumps

in the very beginning where you're like oh my

god is this where it's going to go down this

traditional path and it's not a new story right

we've had the idea of a seance going bad from

the very beginning of horror films and yet putting

it in this new vein puts a sense of immediacy

to it there is a feeling of not acting that's

happening which adds a certain feeling of you

are there you're watching it probably on your

computer You may be watching it on your TV, but

you're not in a movie theater. So already you

have this square, which is a little bit different

than going into the cinema. You may be watching

it alone. So suddenly you are in that zoom meeting.

And what ends up happening is one person makes

fun out of the undead, right? Whatever has decided

to come. And perhaps, perhaps it is finding its

way through the technology and showing up in

everybody's house. And what it does is it does

not do anything huge. It uses the technology

that Zoom has, people picking up their laptops,

walking into a dark room. And just the idea of

how unnerving it is to be watching a bunch of

people who don't look behind them, but you are

seeing behind them the entire time. And so all

of these little things that are the essentials

of like chat and people just dropping off because

the Wi -Fi gets weak, having a noise happen off

screen, having fake backgrounds, having people

putting on, oh my goodness, I'm forgetting what

it's called. We have like fake rabbit ears pop

on your face while you're doing it. Having those

little things become integral to the scares of

the plot and that there's a ghost in the machine.

Now this thing is in there makes for a very interesting

horror film that speaks directly to the quarantine

times. And there are a couple of movies that

are speaking to quarantine times. There are movies

that came out a while ago that horror has been

talking about this for quite a while. knowing

full well that we were dodging bullets for many

years. The avian flu, all these things. We just

barely missed the pandemic over and over and

over again. We call it zombie apocalypse. We

call it whatever we want. But we have been talking

about nature or the things that we can't see,

the mighty microbe. giving us a history lesson,

reminding us that we're just kind of renting

here. We're renting space on this planet. It's

really theirs. And that anxiety has come to a

head during the quarantine. And so several of

the films of the past, even going back to the

zombie films of the late 70s, they speak to where

we are right now in our cubes and our cognitive

dissonance, where we are in an apocalypse where

there's still takeout. What the fuck? Oh, I'm

sorry. I'm not sure if I can. It's perfectly

fine. It's perfectly fine. But yeah, we were

in this area where who would have thought the

apocalypse would have such cognitive dissonance

that we would still have our essential workers

wouldn't be firemen and policemen. It would be

the Amazon. truck driver. That is the weirdness,

the carry out person. Somehow this is the essential

worker in this mad world that we're in right

now. And so we have this just enough normalcy

to kind of not realize that we're in the middle

of a quarantine until we realize that we're in

the middle of a quarantine. And that's where

anxiety comes from. And that's where horror thrives.

So movies like Host, I think, are speaking directly

to the times. almost to the minute of what's

happening right now. Absolutely. So what are

your top three suggestions of things to check

out this season as we come upon Halloween here

soon? Oh, well, if I were to one of the things

that I want to do is cater to what I'm hearing

from from you. Which is that you don't want to

have a bloodbath. You're looking for something

that would be more chilling than absolutely terrifying

and yet still be in the realm of horror where

you can feel that poetry and I had mentioned

a movie earlier from the 80s and that might be

a little bit too old but It's a movie called

the lady in white and it's a ghost story and

it's set in I think New Jersey but it is a wonderful

old -fashioned romantic ghost story but it also

it's not just a ghost story it's also about a

serial killer and it's also about the civil rights

movement there's a lot going on in this one little

horror film that nobody's ever heard of there's

also what I would say if you become intrigued

in just putting your foot into the depths of

horror a little bit. Stranger Things is a great

place to start. It has the nostalgia of the 80s,

but it has a very Stephen King feel to it. I've

heard so much and I've heard so many people try

to tell me, oh, you have to watch Stranger Things.

You love the 80s, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like,

yeah, but it's a horror show. I'm not into horror.

And yes, I know that there are episodes that

are less scary than others and everything else.

And I've seen various things. It's just, that's

one of those shows where I'm like, I need to

wait until like 2025 if we're still here and

the show's already been canceled and nobody's

talking about it for me to be able to sit down

and real. Oh, five years ago in 2020 when the

world was ending, you guys were right. I should

have watched this then. Well, I will say that

the thing that's interesting about and what really

good horror does often is it disarms you from

the heart. It gets you involved in the characters.

And the great thing about Stranger Things is

that the horror kind of sneaks up on you and

it's not super powerful. It's not in gory. It's

have you seen the movie Poltergeist? Long time

ago, yeah. So it has kind of the essence of poltergeist,

where there's a child who's missing. And it's

the friends who are coming to try and rescue.

So it has that kind of feel to it. The Goonies.

You could see it as the Goonies or Monster Squad,

another horror film that's more about kids uniting.

It's not nearly as terrifying as something like

the new version of It, which wants to scare you

and does a pretty decent job of it. Stranger

Things is more about the characters and the dilemma

that's there. You can call it fantasy at certain

points, but it certainly has its heart deeply

steeped in horror. allows you an entry if you're

not a horror fan like my wife by having the characters

be nerds, right? Geeks from the 80s. They're

into D &D. In fact, a lot of what happens has

to do with their passions. You know, perhaps

the monster somehow is related to the D &D game

that they're playing. There's the idea of arcades.

A lot of what goes on in the 80s and malls becomes

very important to the story, but it is the fabric.

The thing that kind of like a Stephen King book,

people always, I think why many Stephen King

movies fail so bad is that they focus on the

heart. The reality is what makes Stephen King's

stories great are the characters and how we are

in internal dialogues with those characters.

What is said or thought on the interior of those

characters is what is indelible of those stories.

It's really not about the big plastic monster

that comes up. And so the evil of the men that

is in the Stephen King story is what's important.

And I think the same thing happens with Stranger

Things. You find yourself... thoroughly invested

in all of the characters. And everybody, including

the adults, are nerdy. And if you grew up in

the 80s at all, you will know these characters.

What I love about it is it's not the 80s of like

some kind of wonderful, or even the Breakfast

Club. Those were kids that were obviously from

the richer parts of the suburbs. The Stranger

Things kids are the ones that shopped at Sears.

right? The parents and the adults have weird

haircuts of the time. They all went to supercuts.

They didn't go to hairstylists. It wasn't the

time of the day glow colors. It's really that

wonderful moment that happened in the mid 80s

where everything was awkward. We weren't in the

70s anymore and we hadn't yet fallen into the

Michael Jackson glam. We're in this spot where

people are wearing Keds and people are riding

motocross bikes and BMX bikes and you're staying

after school with a science teacher and the science

teacher has a pocket protector and he's just

as geeky as you. And so you get all of those

feelings and you're invested long before the

monster appears with tentacles. So that makes

the monster more believable, right? Yeah, there's

a very short, there's this movie and it's sequel.

uh, FX and FX two with Brian Dennehy and, uh,

Oh my, my boy, Brian Brown, Brown plays, uh,

Raleigh Tyler, who's this retired effects, you

know, horror effects, man. I love that movie

more because it's more of a, like a mystery cop

thing than horror. But the fact that he's a retired

effects, you know, horror effects person, I absolutely

love that. Um, tell us a little bit. Okay. So

your book is currently out now. Yes. Yes, you

can get it in Amazon, any of those places. But

if you're kind of a book lover and you're a little

geeky like me, if you go to hellbentforhorror

.com and you go to the book page, the ISBN number

is there. And if you have a local bookstore that's

struggling to stay alive amongst all those Amazon

folk, all you need to do is take that ISBN number

and you can order it through them. And that helps

out the small book lovers and small bookstores.

So as I've been listening to you sir over the

last hour of this interview I'm wondering why

you did not record the book for audible because

I would love to listen to you read the book to

me Well, it's so funny that you would say that

because I am in process of trying to do that

So one of the things that I want to do is put

that out. I actually have I've been going to

conventions of recent virtual conventions, and

I'm going to have a book reading tomorrow, actually,

at the Torrance Library. And if you folks want

to, you guys actually are interested in going,

I can see about giving you the Zoom address.

But I'm going to be reading 20 minutes of one

of the chapters from my book. It's going to be

a video version. So basically, I made a mini

movie and it's about my father and I going to

see John Carpenter's The Thing in 1982 and how

that movie was. That was a spot where horror

split between generations and it was obvious

that there was an outrage from one generation

and a my goodness I feel like I got hit by a

car yet. I'm really excited to the younger generation.

And so that is me reading from And I'm gonna

be doing more and more of those. But yes, I'm

gonna be doing that tomorrow. I think it's 24

minutes long the video And it's about the experience

of bunches of fathers and sons showing up at

a movie theater in Wilkes -Barre, Pennsylvania,

assuming that they're going to all have a bonding

experience. And it ended up being damn near a

riot. Dads were so upset. All right, before we

let you go, how can our listeners find you online

and the various projects that you have coming

up if there are any that you can speak about

besides the ones you just mentioned? Well, very

good. If you're interested in finding out more

about what's going on, you can go to hellbentforhorror

.com. It's also the Facebook page. It's Hellbent

for Horror. You can find that on Facebook. And

in Twitter land, it is Hellbent Horror. You can

find me on Instagram as well. But if you go to

the website, you can find all the podcasts. They're

all available. There is a YouTube page, so there

are video versions of those. Some of them are

actual full videos, and others are just the audio

with a little bit of a background. that's there

but on my page is an events page on my website

that is and if you go to the events page you

will see where I'm going to be I most of them

have kind of finished up because I'm super busy

during October and once Halloween comes it's

time to rest a little bit although I do have

lists of my horror movies for Christmas that

I like to do you can find that I will be at like

I said the library but that's gonna be happening

tomorrow probably won't be this won't be recorded

or out there broadcast by then. But if you're

interested in finding out a little bit more about

the book, if you're interested in finding out

my speaking engagements, if you're interested

in just listening to the podcast, hellbentforhar

.com is the best place to find everything that

is all roads lead to Rome. And so all roads lead

to hellbentforhar. And I'm more than happy to

answer questions that are posted to me on the

website as well. Awesome, awesome. So we would

like to thank you, Scott, for taking the time

to chat with us here in this GeekCast Radio Presents

interview. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.

And for those that are listening, you can visit

the website and see how you can connect with

him and discover more about his book. And until

next time, Unleash the Geek in You.