Interviews – Joshua Lastine is a Transactional Entertainment Lawyer!

This is transactional entertainment lawyer Joshua

Lastine and you're listening to the Geekcast

Radio Network. Hello, and welcome to another

Geekcast Radio Presents interview. I'm your host,

Steve Megatron, with TFG1 Mike. Hello. Today,

we're going to be talking with Joshua Lastine,

who is a leading entertainment lawyer with expertise

in dealmaking, intellectual property, and creator

rights. His experience at top agencies and studios

give him unique insights into Hollywood trends

and the business of creativity. He's a passionate

advocate for independent creators and a knowledgeable

voice on geek culture and fandom. Hi, Joshua.

How are you? Hey, Steve Megatron. Hey, Mike.

Hey, GeekCast. So thrilled to be here. I'm doing

well this evening. Thank you for having me. Thanks

for joining us. Yeah, this was kind of cool to

get the invite to... talk with you. No, I was

really excited to do this. You know, usually

I get stuck on stuffy, boring lawyer podcasts.

But every now and then I get to do one of these

really fun, cool podcasts with you guys and talk

about lawyer things, but still kind of more in

the geeky realm. So excited to be here. Awesome.

Awesome. So usually how we begin these is we

kind of do like the intro about you so can you

tell us a little bit about your journey to becoming

an entertainment lawyer or was there like a particular

uh experience or case that kind of sparked your

interest in this field and then kind of in tandem

with geekdom yeah yeah you know let me start

by kind of explaining what an entertainment lawyer

is or i guess what type of entertainment lawyer

i am anyway i'm what is known as a transactional

entertainment lawyer i'm not a litigator i don't

go to court i don't wear a suit and tie and argue

in front of a judge so all of the stuff you see

on law and order or on suits or any of those

cool shows that's completely not me i strictly

handle contract deal making negotiating actor,

writer, director, voiceover deals, and things

related to film and television. So that really

is my 24 -7, 9 -5, 365, whatever you want to

call it. I live, breathe, and eat the entertainment

world. And like you said, specifically, my clients

lean more into the animation space, horror genre,

indie filmmakers, user -generated content creators,

and those interested in nerd culture. because

that's really, you know, what I consume as a

consumer myself. So circling back to your question

about my journey and how I kind of got here,

it is so intertwined with geek culture and pop

culture in general, I guess I should say, you

know, really what... spurred me. And even just

knowing what an entertainment lawyer was back

when I was a kid, you know, the original Star

Wars, not the original Star Wars VHS, but the

new edition re -releases in the 1990s and those

awesome gold box cases. You know, they had an

extensive amount of back behind the scenes, extended

cuts, interviews with George Lucas and Fox executives,

in particular, Alan Ladd Jr., who was the head

at Fox at the time. And so I was always kind

of aware that there was this business side of

entertainment. I was aware that Hollywood was

a money -making, deal -making machine, and I

always knew that that was where I wanted to work,

where I wanted to play. I was very passionate

about also going to law school and business school

at kind of the same time. I majored in business

economics when I was an undergraduate, and it

was kind of at the early... height of the, the

original MCU, the original Iron Man, the original

Captain America, the first Avengers and stuff.

And it was just, I just had so much fun growing

up as a kid, tracking things like box office

metrics, how much stars are getting paid on what,

and, and, you know, not necessarily in the tabloid

nitty gritty, but like on the business side of,

of entertainment affairs. So yeah, fast forward

to a young law student. I actually, In 2012,

2013, got to intern for Marvel Studios and got

to work on a bunch of their projects that were

in production at the time. Avengers Assemble,

Ant -Man, the original one, the original Guardians

of the Galaxy, Avengers 2, got to work on a little

bit, as well as do really... cool things like

license Iron Man's image to like Pennzoil bottles

and like REI for sleeping bags and fishing boxes

and things like that. So, you know, it really

is kind of amazing when you get behind the scenes

of things and just see how much freaking paperwork

is involved in everything. You know, you would

be amazed at all the different type of deals

that someone like me has to handle, whether those

are Actor agreements, writer agreements, location

agreements, merchandising agreements, a wide

variety of different things. So I've had a pretty

awesome career in getting to work on projects

that I – Consume as a consumer, as a fan, I guess

you would say. I got to do a deal a long, long

time ago for a robot chicken Simpsons couch gag

scene, which was a particular favorite of mine.

So that was a cool thing that I got to work on.

But yeah, it really has been a journey from...

I forgot to mention this. I grew up in Iowa.

I grew up in a small town in the middle of nowhere.

But like Luke Skywalker, I wanted to get off

the farm, so to speak, and come to Hollywood

and have my own adventure galaxy far, far away.

Awesome. Seth Rollins to the stars, ladies and

gentlemen. Yeah. No, I can definitely relate

to the moving away from... from where I began

and I hail from Michigan. So it's, I live in

Colorado now, but yeah, totally different landscape.

Yeah. And, you know, it's it's I've been very

blessed in my career to have some really good

opportunities working for major studios, working

on some pretty high profile projects. And now,

you know, I run my own entertainment law firm

where I get to kind of pick and choose the projects

that I get to work on. So as of late, I have

been working more in the animation space, working

with animation, adult animation clients, trying

to work with new content creators. on things

like publishing their own comic books or online

comic books, working with people who have toy

licensing deals with Funko Pops or NECA toys

or Hot Topic or whatever have you. So, I mean,

it's a lot of work. It's a lot of fun at the

same time. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, very cool,

man. And I know Mike's going to circle back around

to the Funko Pops at some point. I don't know

what you're talking about. Yeah, don't play coy

with me. I have no idea. Absolutely. Mike, are

you a Funko Pop collector? I have a few. I'm

not a big Funko Pop collector as much as I am

a Marvel Legends collector. If there were an

earthquake in California right now, I would be

completely killed by falling Marvel Legends figures

on my head. Yeah, you'd be screwed. In particular,

my 32 -inch Galactus that's standing right above

me. Oh, wow. No, no, no, no, no. You don't have

that standing right above you. No, you never

put the action figures above you. It looks pretty

sturdy. Okay, tell me that one of 4 .8 hits.

There you go, there you go. So you mentioned

working on animation shows. So what is your particular

genre or type of project that you're most drawn

to in that space? You know, I like working in

adult animation because, again, that's what I

consume as a consumer, as a fan, whatever you

want to call it. The thing about adult animation

is that it's not as much as a money driver as

kids animation. Surprise, right? Of course, right?

Adult animation is fun and there are some great

shows and obviously the exceptions to the rule,

The Simpsons and King of the Hill and things

like that. But generally speaking, it's more

so kids animation that drives merchandise and

action figures and licensing products. So while

I enjoy working in adult animation, I suppose

I wouldn't turn away clients that work in the

Coco melon or shark. Uh, what's it, what's it

called? Baby shark, boo -boo based or whatever

it's called. Pink Fong. Pink Fong is the company.

I've actually done a few deals with them, but,

um, yeah. And, and I don't want to make it seem

like I'm, I'm, I'm all work too. You know, I,

uh, no, we're, we're getting some fun stuff too.

No, of course, of course. So, so yeah, that's,

um, Working in animation, it's very unique relative

to other areas of, let's say, compared to live

action. In live action, you are showing an actor

as they are, and you're depicting them in that

role, and you're photographing their likeness.

For an animated series, you're just using their

voice, and there are different concerns. things

that the studio needs in terms of using someone's

voice in a voiceover role versus having an actor

on set, which is obviously different to you than

having the director on set or the rest of the

cast and stuff. So it's all sorts of different

types of deal -making that goes into making all

of those products. Very cool. We hear you have

an impressive collection of action figures in

Marvel Legends. How did you... get started and

do you have any favorites yeah so i was a marvel

legends collector back when they initially had

the license with toy biz um i think i would have

started collecting in 2004 2005 gave it up for

the longest time when i was in law school but

then repicked back up the hobby in 2015. And

like I said, if it earthquakes here, I'm going

to be completely hammered by Marvel Legends.

Probably my favorite is my Galactus because that's

kind of the holy grail of the collection. But,

you know, never go wrong with Victor Von Doom.

He's also right there in front of me. I have

them spaced out between, I got, Probably 40 Avengers

on one side and 25 to 30 villains on the other

side. Oh, so the heroes have to remember the

villains. So that means the villains have to

have their comeuppance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That

almost sounds like my Beast Wars collection.

Oh, you're a Beast Wars guy. Oh, yeah. Yeah,

we're huge Beast Wars fans. I've got a cabinet

of... Beast Wars figures, Dragon Ball Z, Power

Rangers, Star Trek? I started... Getting a recollection

of the Beast Wars figures after the new Netflix

series, which ironically was the production was

done by one of my clients, Rooster Teeth, or

formerly a client of mine, Rooster Teeth. They

did the production for Netflix's Transformers,

the Age of Cybertron or War for Cybertron or

whatever it's called, which saw the return of

the Beast Wars, which I thought was so cool.

I actually have the Nemesis and the Ark. Oh,

nice. sitting in my home office because you know

i was a big beast wars fan it was really funny

because when they announced that they were going

to do that third season of the transformer show

with the beast wars you know being the central

cast i i quickly you know phoned my mom because

i had my old beast war action figure collection

somewhere in storage and those things were you

know this was not in the height of the pandemic,

but somewhere in the middle of the pandemic.

And those, those things were selling for a pretty

penny. Um, Oh yeah, for sure. She threw them

all away. Um, just like parents, you, yeah, I'm

sure most of them were broken anyway. Um, so

that, that was a heartbreaker, but I, I have,

I have dino by, I have black arachnid. I have

ravage the, um, Covert Agent Ravage? Yes, yeah,

Covert Agent Ravage, yep. With his dual pistols,

oh, that's one of my favorites. Yeah, I got that

too. I wanted the, because they had a Japanese

version that they didn't release in the United

States. It was like X -9 Jaguar. Yeah, but I

never got it, so I'm so glad that I ended up

getting this one. The one that I have to get

now that I don't have is Silverbolt. I saw they

re -released that one, so that one I want to

get. Yeah, I don't have that one yet. I do have

all of the iterations of Beast Megatron and varying

degrees of Masterpiece and War for Cybertron

characters. I was going to ask, do you have the

Transmetal Masterpiece Megatron? Uh, yes. That

would be a holy grail in my collection as well.

I don't have that one, but that would be a nice

looking figure. Oh, it's definitely awesome.

I have a shrine of Megatron in my cabinet. Just

ask Mike. I love it. Go ahead. Well, well, well,

what do you have to say for yourself? I simply

have a penchant for intelligent conversation.

Yes. I was so disappointed they didn't get the

OG voice cast together for that. I was such a

missed opportunity. Oh, I know. I was so sad.

I was like, no, they could have done, you know,

they could have brought our, our, you know, our

guys back. Yeah. No, they could have done it

for the movie too, but that's true. I don't even

think I remember that film. I don't either, but

I was campaigning on Twitter. I was like, hey,

I can do Beast Megatron if... Yeah, why didn't

they just get a sound alike? Oh, man. Yeah, I

don't know. But yeah, I was still glad because

it at least brought the Beast back to the forefront.

Yeah. No, that was so cool. And I actually think

someone did dub over it on YouTube. If you want

to listen to the, to the original voice, I don't

know if it's exactly a one for one of the, of

the show or whatever, but there are clips of

the new show with the original voices. Yeah.

That's funny. Yeah. Steve did a whole thing on

that. Once he heard it, he was like, literally

I'm going to puke is what he told me. Well, I

was more offended over Megatron than any of the

others. I know. I actually re -recorded the dialogue

with me doing the voice and then I had a voice

comparison and people were losing it on YouTube.

Did Waspinator speak in that show? Because that

would have been another one that I wouldn't know.

Waspinator does not understand. There you go.

Waspinator commenters. Scott McNeil is great.

Great impressions. Thank you. Yes, he does. I

watched cartoons as a kid. As a kid? I still

do. You're known for encyclopedic knowledge of

movies and TV. Any theories you'd like to share

with us on things in the entertainment industry?

I keep throwing hot takes or crazy theories of

what they're going to do with Marvel. Oh gosh.

But I won't go there because I don't want to

accidentally cause something. Before you answer,

Joshua, I just have to get this off my chest.

I think it was two years ago, 2022. It was right

after the pandemic didn't die down, but everything

opened back up. There was a convention, I think

it was at SDCC, where they're like, here. Here's

everything, phases five and six. This is what's

coming. I'm like, you morons, don't do that because

you don't know what's going to happen. Yeah,

they overplayed their hand there. Very much so.

But that's kind of been a giant trend of studios

as of the last five years. Like, I don't know

what, I mean. I guess I do. There was 10 films

that made over a billion dollars in 2019, and

I think that gave some uber confidence to especially

Disney, who had like six of them. But it's really

just been one giant CGI mess of, you know, a

$300 million film after another, aside from Dune,

which was great. But studios have not been...

nailing the landing so to speak in terms of finding

what the audience wants and it was funny I was

at a entertainment law convention over this past

weekend and they were comparing the 2019 entertainment

film market you know with Avengers Endgame coming

out that year Lion King or Aladdin came out that

year maybe both of them did I'm trying to think

of what all the top 10 movies were anyway 2019

was it was a pretty banger year for movies and

if you look at 2003, sorry, 2023, similar movies

came out. They had the Marvels, they had the

Little Mermaid remake, but all of those movies

did relatively poorly. And, you know, the writing

on the wall, at least in terms of what Hollywood

thinks, is that, you know, people are over franchise

films and people are over sequels, prequels and

reboots. And I think to a certain degree, a lot

of that is true. Especially for the more, how

do you say, advanced moviegoer, for people who

really want to go to the movies and see the theaters,

I think people are dying for something new or

original. But for the general moviegoing audience,

that franchise, that blockbuster, the sequels,

prequels, remakes, and reboots, that's always

going to be a big driver towards a more uniform...

pull of all people towards the box office. And

it's not necessarily that people are over those

movies as much as the 2023 offerings just sucked.

The Marvel sucked. Killers of the Flower Moon

sucked. I'm trying to think. It's just not been

a great time for movies in the last five years.

And, you know, I'm really hoping that Because

of industry trends, because of the pressure that's

been put on these studios in terms of tightening

their budget and bringing in fiscal responsibility,

we might see some more creative movies come out

in the next five years. But yeah, my prediction

is that we will see more smaller budgeted indie

films. You're going to see a lot more horror

films because that really is the only thing that's

proven in the last five years to make a buck,

which I'm not complaining about at all. I love

horror movies. too, but you'll see probably less

and less of the large 300 million Indiana Jones

5 films. Thankfully, for better or worse, but

hopefully they'll find their footing in terms

of releasing some good Marvel or Star Wars content

again, although I remain skeptical. So, I have

it pulled up here. Disney has had and still has

Seven out of ten from 2019. Yep. Only Sony and

Warner Brothers have the other three. Sony has

Spider -Man Far From Home and Jumanji Next Level,

and Warner Brothers had Joker. In 2023 for the

top ten? Oh, in 2019, those were the top ten.

Yeah, that was the top ten of 2019. In 2023,

you've got one Disney movie. No, two. You've

got Little Mermaid and... Guardians Volume 3.

Little Mermaid made a billion dollars? No way.

No. No, top ten. Oh, top ten. Yeah, highest grossing.

It made $569 million. But compare 2019 to 2023.

I see more different, like Disney isn't dominating

2023, whereas in 2019 they were. I see Warner

Brothers, Universal, two Universal movies, one

Sony, and two Warner Brothers. So luckily, and

that's the biggest thing, I want to eventually

do a podcast episode for somewhere on our network

about basically... how we used to have all of

these different, I don't technically touchstone

is Disney, but like touchstone pictures and Regency.

We used to have all these set pair of, you know,

Columbia, Paramount, all that stuff. They all

used to be separate. And now it's like many majors.

Yeah. Yeah. And now Disney Warner brothers and

basically own everything. I thought there was

a third one in there, but there isn't. Well,

there there's Disney Warner brothers, Paramount,

uh, Sony is still around. Sony actually is in

an interesting position where they're the only

movie studio that doesn't have a streaming output

channel. Paramount, Disney, Warner Brothers,

obviously they all have their own streaming platforms.

Sony is unique in that. they don't um which means

they can you know license their products to the

highest bidder amongst netflix and all the other

channels which which that kind of competition

breeds more creativity usually will drive up

you know the prices of things only problem is

is that again sony's content has just really

sucked um aside from um anyone but you in the

last you know five or so years. So excited to

see Kraven. So excited to see Kraven. It'll definitely

be interesting to see how they play that one

out, especially considering how bad Madam Web

was received. I didn't sell the sarcasm good

enough. I'm probably not going to see the Kraven.

Although I will go see Venom 3. No, I won't.

Nope. I've already hidden every single trailer

and everything that Sony puts out with that movie

on YouTube. I hide all of those videos. I have

zero interest in that. What is the story about

moving Kevin Feige's movie posters? Can you share

any behind -the -scenes details about that experience?

Yeah. No, this is kind of a fun story I like

to tell. So, like I said, I interned at Marvel

Studios when I was in law school. It was actually

at a really unique time because they had not

just been bought out by Disney, but the transitioning

was finalized and they were moving from their

Rosecrans Manhattan Beach office up to the Burbank

lot for Walt Disney Studios. And, you know, at

the Frank G. Wells building where all of the.

C -suite executives work. They, they put us up

the Marvel studios headquarters. Um, but unfortunately,

um, Kevin Feige's posters showed up, not, not

posters, but like the signed autographed framed

Avengers one through whatever. I can't remember

which one we were on at the time. signed by all

of the cast those priceless memorabilia showed

up on the back of a moving truck and there was

no one to essentially bring them up the freight

elevator up to Kevin's office except for Kevin's

assistant who was a friend at the time but she

couldn't physically lift the posters. They're

massive, massively framed, you know, movie posters.

So, you know, I, being the lowly intern, the

bottom guy in the totem pole volunteered to,

you know, haul each one up individually up to

Kevin's office and make sure that they got up

there unbroken. Like every time I was going up

a set of stairs with one of them, I saw my life

flash before my eyes. Cause if I break one of

these things, it's, it's, you know, priceless

memorabilia from the Avengers movies. Just, you

know, it kind of reinforces... I like to tell

that story because I feel like it reinforces

a little bit about myself in terms of, like,

you know... You really do have to be able to

roll up your sleeves and tackle any job. I was

in a suit and tie and was going up to work a

law desk. But just being who I am, I saw a job.

I saw it needed to get done. I took my suit jacket

and tie off and rolled up my sleeves and did

it. I think that that's a good lesson for everyone

in 2024. Oh, for sure. It's like Kevin Conroy

said as old man Bruce in Return of the Joker.

Joker's vain. He likes to talk. Block it out

and power on through. I've used block it out

and power on through ever since that movie almost

25 years ago. Oh, wow. Next year's 25th anniversary

of Return of the Joker. Holy crap. Rest in peace,

Kevin Conroy. Yes, absolutely. The legend. Absolutely.

I will say in the whole DC versus Marvel debate,

DC's animated films are just top tier above anything

that Marvel's put out. Oh, I agree. That's always

been the thing between the two when you do DC

versus because DC has the animation, Marvel has

the live action. Now, there are some really good

DC movies. You know, some depend on your taste

of what is good and what isn't good and whatever.

But, like, next year, and we're actually going

to be doing this next year, Steve knows and doesn't

know this, we have already completed two episodes

covering the 90s, the late 80s, early 90s Batman

movies. We did Burton's Batman and Schumacher's

Batman. Next year is the 20th anniversary of

Batman Begins, so we're going to cover the Dark

Knight trilogy. Oh my goodness. Yeah. And Instagram,

there's, I don't know what account it is on Instagram,

but I get sucked into doom scrolling Instagram

reels. And this account keeps showing me all

these behind the scenes of Batman begins of the

dark night of the dark night. Like, Oh God, we're

doing this podcast next year. You've been good.

Sorry. I was going to say, for me, I really think

that watching the behind the scenes, watching

how films get made, watching all of the blood,

sweat, effort, and tears that go into making

movies is not so much more interesting, but it's

such an added layer to the movie experience itself.

So watching those behind the scenes, talking

about those behind the scenes, I just watched

an hour -long video of all of the... easter eggs

tidbits and fun facts about uh batman returns

um and you know the an hour and five minute runtime

that i could have watched the movie but you know

just having that kind of inside information is

just so so much fun um and it's part of the business

that i that i really love and enjoy yeah absolutely

and while i will agree that streaming services

are easy and they're convenient and everything

else Sometimes things leave streaming services

completely. They don't just jump from Hulu to

Netflix. They don't just do whatever. They just

leave. And this is why I've been saying, I've

been buying, again, since 2021, I've been buying

more and more physical media again, and I haven't

had a physical media collection since 2011. But

I have a growing list and growing shelves of

Blu -rays and 4Ks, and if I can get it, I have

a 4K TV and a 4K Blu -ray player. So if I can

get it in the highest quality, I will be getting

it in the highest quality whatsoever. Oh, yeah.

Man after my own heart. When I moved to California

from Iowa, I had 400 DVDs in regular... theatrical

movies. And then I had probably like 40 to 50

TV box sets, all the Simpsons, Seinfeld, South

parks, that kind of stuff. But, you know, after

moving that once or twice in LA plus storage

and rent size, I'm like, I got to get rid of

these things. So I got rid of everything. I think

it was in 2013, 2014. Um, but, but now I am finding

myself. Yeah. Like you said, buying a lot more

physical media. Um, I just bought phases one

through three of the MCU on Blu -ray 4k. Um,

we obviously have Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter

and Star Wars on Blu -ray 4k. Um, you know, yeah,

you, you never know what's going to happen. I

call it my doomsday or, uh, uh, no internet,

um, sale, sale, sale, sale face. But, um, yeah.

And the only downside, and I agree with you because

I'm the same way, if I lose internet, well, as

long as I still have electricity, then I thought

to myself, because my girlfriend pointed this

out to me, she's like, but if the internet goes

out, the internet and the computers are what

controls the power, so the power's, I'm like,

oh, crap, don't ruin this for me. Oh, God. You

know, one physical media I had to go out and

buy not too long ago was the – I had to track

down a DVD of Dogma, Kevin Smith's Dogma, because

that one has not been re -released, remastered

at all on Blu -ray, and you can't find it anywhere

on streaming. I think that might change starting

next year, but I think I had to pay $40 on eBay

for a DVD. Or an old DVD copy of Dogma. Yeah,

that's crazy. That one's got to rank up there.

One of my favorites. Kevin Smith created an interconnected

universe before the MCU made it cool. Absolutely.

You're developing your own animated and scripted

projects. Can you give us a sneak peek into what

you're working on? Oh, goodness gracious. I didn't

know that was in there. Hey, they gave me the

ammunition. I took it. This is why we don't share

the questions with the guests so we can have

on -the -spot answers. Let me put it this way.

I am constantly immersed in ideas for film and

television projects, animated live action, whatever.

I have spent... My entire adult life learning

how to make these properties and projects and

helping other people create things and get their

own projects off the ground, I have no doubt

that in the not -too -distant future, I will

be working on more intimately my own creative

projects, and I can't share anything right now,

but yeah, things will be coming in the pipeline.

And then when you're ready to divulge that information,

we'd love to have you back and discuss it. Absolutely.

No, absolutely. So with kind of pivoting to a

little bit of the legal side and a little bit

of the creative side, what is with your experience

in both law and creative development? How do

you see the relationship between the legal and

artistic sides of the entertainment industry?

So I'm a firm believer that the legal and business

side of entertainment should be subservient to

the art itself. Do not ask any of my colleagues

or executive friends that because I firmly believe

that, or not firmly believe, I think that they

firmly believe that the business and legal affairs

sides really drives the industry. But I, yeah,

no, the art has got to come first. And I really

think that the last 10 years, last 15 years has

been a trial run in what happens when you, How

do you say for lack of putting it delicately,

let tech bros run the industry and really focus

on a profit first or not even profit first, a

equity shareholder first model, a stock valuation

model and whatever is going to make our investors

happy. Like you said, there used to be a lot

more. privately owned smaller mid -size studios

and production companies and or subsidiaries

of the larger studios that kind of worked or

acted independently a lot of that is gone now

a lot of things are just now housed under one

banner and and with that we've seen you know

kind of a dry up of creativity Technical difficulties.

Let's move on, shall we? I was just going to

say, when's the last time you saw a really good,

you know, raunchy adult Christmas movie? You

know, like Bad Santa or something like that.

They just don't make those anymore. Although

we got lucky this year with a bunch of sequels

to movies that came out decades ago. You know,

did you guys see Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice? I've

seen it, but I've also seen Beverly Hills Cop

4, and I loved that one. I was going to say,

you know, I forgot about Beverly Hills Cop 4.

That was really good. I really liked Beetlejuice

Beetlejuice. They're not, how do I say, they're

not movies that are going to draw a lot of people

to the cinemas, to the theaters. But for us,

you know, people who really enjoy cinema, I really

enjoyed them for what they were. I don't know.

Beetlejuice Beetlejuice did pretty well at the

box office, has been doing pretty well at the

box office. Well, and they had a lot of merchandising,

too, like the Halloween season coming up and

everything else. And they really dove into that

and took advantage of it, started seeing more

of the old cartoon coming back out and things

like that. Yeah, the whole original cartoon's

on Tubi to watch for free. I don't work for Tubi.

I'm not plugging Tubi in any meaningful way.

I will plug them as long as I need to because

that service is the greatest service in the world.

They're the silent sleeper. That's right. They

have almost everything. They have pretty much

all the U .S.-based Transformers cartoons. They

have every single episode of Columbo, which I

plan on doing a whole podcast on. They've got

everything over there. And it's free. I sincerely

hope they learn to beat Netflix at their own

game. So, we'll see. But them and Roku have been

on my list of companies to watch out for for

a while now. Agreed. How can creators protect

their artistic vision while navigating the business

side of the entertainment industry? Hire a lawyer.

No. Hire him, folks. Hire him. You've done that

before. No. You know, it's kind of a trick question

because at the end of the day, there really is

no such thing as a truly unique original idea.

I firmly believe that even myself, sometimes

I will think I have the most ingenious idea for

a plot or something and realize that it's been

done by this, that, or the next thing. True originality

lies in the expression. And so, you know, you

can take stories that have been told and cliches

and fairy tales and mythology and in parts of

stories and stuff. And you if you learn to tell

and craft a narrative in a new, unique, expressive

way, that is truly what is the essence of art

or what what you want to protect. And so, you

know, I always tell people that unless you have

a. M. Night Shyamalanian, like, I see dead people

style twist. I wouldn't be too concerned with

sharing my ideas with other people because it's

going to boil down to the expression of that

idea. And really, there's so many people who

have ideas. Ideas are not protectable under the

Copyright Act. It is the expression of that idea

that is protectable. So in my business, a lot

of people talk. A lot of people have ideas for

things, but very... not very few people, but

the ones that do, you know, those are the ones

that matter. So, you know, protecting yourself

is great. Make sure that you file for copyright

protection. Make sure you're registering your

work with the WGA if you're a writer. You know,

obviously don't share your work with scrupulous

individuals if it is confidential or private

or you don't want it seen before it's ready.

But, you know, China is going to steal ideas

from the United States. all day every day you

know we we can't stop that there is no foolproof

way to completely protect or shield your idea

and it's funny you say that because we often

say around here when we have a good idea as soon

as we spit the good idea out on a podcast that

ends up people end up hearing it the next thing

out of either one of our mouths is disney don't

steal our idea please now now To be fair, there

have been a bunch of instances where companies

have done more scrupulous things like stealing

people's ideas, but yeah. Again, it lies in the

expression. I teach entertainment business law

at Los Angeles Film School. And one of the cases

I like to talk about is a more recent incidence

where Pixar was sued by a tattoo artist because

there was this van in the movie Onward. And this

tattoo artist, she sued Pixar because the van

in that movie almost completely resembled, was

almost identical to hers. And I show it. to my

students in, in my law class, because, you know,

one could look at this van and, and look at this

tattoo artist, this lady bringing a lawsuit and

say, you know, like she's crazy, you know, why

would Disney steal her idea for this van? Like,

and not to mention, you know, Again, people can

have independent ideas about the same thing at

the exact same time. So I try to show students

that on the one hand, there can be a degree of

separation between ideation and idea theft. But

the devils in the details and the devils are

in the facts of the case. And the facts of this

case were that Pixar had rented her van specifically

several times for Pixar -related activities and

or had approached her. to license the van to

use it or something to that effect. Like essentially

Pixar was well aware that this van existed. Um,

and it could be shown through, through evidence,

right? Um, because in 2024, there's an email

record, there's a digital footprint of everything.

Um, so Disney ended up having to settle that

case, having to, you know, pay that tattoo artists

and undisclosed lump sum of money because they

were clearly in the wrong. They clearly had stolen

her idea. Um, But there was a very clear paper

trail of how that occurred. More often than not,

I'll have people come into my office or I'll

have people call me and say, hey, I had an idea

for a movie about Napoleon and now Ridley Scott

stole my idea. Well, it's like anyone can have

an idea to make a movie about Napoleon, right?

Yeah. It depends. Is the lawyer's favorite answer

all the time? It depends. The devil's in the

details. The facts and circumstance are going

to dictate. Generally speaking, Hollywood doesn't

have a bug around people trying to steal your

ideas. But then every once in a while, you know,

something like that. It does happen occasionally.

The van incident happens. Be careful, folks.

The police are after the entertainment lawyer

as we're talking to him. Yeah, I'm sorry, guys.

It's a hot night in Santa Monica, I guess. Isn't

it always? Yeah. So with the rise of, since we're

talking about that, with the rise of AI, how

do you see intellectual property law evolving

in the coming years? You know, I really have.

No clue where intellectual property law is going

to go, where copyright law is going to go. To

me, the idea that all AI generated art is not

copyrighted, not copyrightably protectable. That's

an absurd assertion. And that's kind of the stance

that the copyright office is taking at this point

in time. But if you think about it and you boil

down. AI really is, it's not too dissimilar from

Photoshop or what we use to program mocap or

CGI or any advancements in computer technology

that we've made in the last 20, 30 years. It's

not the exact same as that, but there's an analogy

to be made. And as long as a human hand is using

the AI tool to create, I believe that people

can use AI to make incredible works of art that

should be protected by copyright law. But we'll

have to see, you know, how the court kind of

decides on that. Like I said, right now, they

kind of take the position that anything used,

AI used to create won't qualify for copyright

protection. Intellectual property, copyright

law in general is kind of a fascinating topic.

If you think about copyright law in comparison

to patent law, patent protection only lasts for

20 years. Copyright lasts for the life of the

author plus – I forget what it is off the top

of my head, 70 something, 75 years or something.

Something like that. Yeah, 95 for corporation

from publication or 120 from ideation. But those

copyright lengths of time, 100 plus odd years,

that's a long time for protection. I don't know

that... level of protection is good for art or

society. I just, I don't know. I don't know,

to be honest with you. I prefer actual intelligence

to artificial intelligence. That's my stance

on AI. I will say, I think that artificial intelligence

is highly overrated in the intelligence category.

It is great. taking long, complex things and

reorganizing them and taking a sentence and giving

ideas for it. And it's good for what I like to

call the ideation process, but it does not substitute

in any way for a brain. We use AI at our law

firm for a lot of things, and I compare it to

driving a race car. It's like a Formula One race

car. The average driver off the street can't

get behind a Formula one race car and, you know,

do a million laps and do cool things with it.

But the right driver behind the wheel with the

right tools can, you know, open that car up and

do some really cool stuff. That's a great analogy.

And I actually think of it very similar just

because I tend to think of it like old school

search engine, like when you had to use the Boolean

searches and you had to kind of know exactly

like what you were looking for to get it to come

up. and the right way to ask the question and

so like it's very much like that you have to

kind of know how to use the tool and what you're

using it for but it's not good for the the end

product it's good for the getting you know the

wheels turning in your brain to go the rest of

the way yeah like you know i'm writing an episode

of a tv show about thanksgiving you know dinner

and i you know i type into chat gbt what are

the most common family conflicts that occur during

Thanksgiving, and I can find ideas in that to

use, but it's not like it's writing anything

for me. But I can clearly tell you it's whoever

gets the last baked potato, whoever gets the

last piece of pumpkin pie, and depending on what

football team you're a fan of, whoever gets to

watch the game first. That sounds like a very

mild Thanksgiving there, Mike. Like they burn

the dinner and have to go out, and then all the

places are closed. Do you guys watch The Bear?

No. On Hulu FX? No, I haven't yet. It's a really

good show about a chef who's trying to win a

Michelin star for a restaurant in Chicago, but

there's this very... now -famous episode. I think

it's called The Five Fishes or something like

that. Set over Christmas with Jamie Lee Curtis

and a huge ensemble cast, but it's one of the

best episodes of television I've ever seen. It's

really good. Love to check that out. Yeah, the

only reason I bring it up is it's a pretty intense

family fight scene at a holiday dinner. What

are some current trends in Hollywood that creators

should be aware of before signing any deals?

Oh, boy. Nobody's paying anything? I don't know.

I don't know how to answer that question. You

know, the motto on the street right now is survive

to 2025. I think a lot of the companies, a lot

of the studios... a lot of the financiers are

licking their wounds. They're looking at the

high interest rate as kind of being problematic

and a barrier for jumping into investing again.

I'm hoping 2025 will be a more robust year for

indie filmmaking and or private equity, private

investments into the entertainment industry in

general. As far as trends go, Old is the new

again. Look for things in the early 2000s that

were really popular. Rediscovering things from

the early 2000s right now, music, pop culture,

brands. I imagine that's going to be pretty in

vogue for the next five years as people... Ten

years, my junior, starting to become the main

purchasers, start to get more of that purchasing

power, that purchasing dollar power. You'll see

a rise of those trends, not too dissimilar from

the 90s trends we've seen recently as well. So

it'll be kind of like all the callbacks that

were in Deadpool and Wolverine. Yeah, I mean,

oh goodness, we could talk about that. Yeah,

no, Deadpool versus the Wolverine. That was a

great movie. It was like watching all of the

internet memes of the 2000s combined together

into one film. It was, yeah, yeah, you know,

there'll be more of that. Well, after all, I

mean, nostalgia is what rules the universe now

because there is no new idea. There is only a

way to modify current ideas. There is no... new

breakout and it's our own fault because we were

raised in the 70s 80s and 90s to the point of

we started with all this stuff and now all the

companies are like we need to make money let's

make more of the stuff they loved 40 years ago

yeah and and you'll have that of course um I

lost my train of thought. I was going to say

something cool and interesting, but I forgot

it. Sorry. No, nostalgia goes a long way, but

I do think that people are in the mood and or

craving for something original. Now I remember

what I was going to say. You know, it has always

been true that all art is recycled. Even going

back to Picasso and Plato, everyone has always

said that good artists borrow. great artists

steal. So it's not necessarily the regurgitation

of things. That is the issue. It is the fact

that the regurgitation of these things has not

created or supported anything new. You know,

there you, you can always look at art and see

the influences in the history and where, you

know, they have borrowed inspiration from Hollywood

just needs to find that again. No, I agree. That's

a lot of the, The old can work still. It's just

the implementation. And that's one of the things

I've loved with some of the more recent Ryan

Reynolds films that have been released on Netflix

is it's got a mixture of different things in

a new packaging, and it feels fresh. I think

that that's the best we're going to get in 2024,

to be real honest. I mean, like, I really liked

Alien Romulus. It was Alien 1. In 2024, I was

pleased with it. So what are some of the essential

things that you think creators need to know to

kind of protect themselves online, especially

like us being podcasters? What are some of the

things that you would kind of recommend to watch

out for to stay on the good side of the law and

not have people come after you? Just because

you got a Google image off of Google. Anyway,

that's a long story. Yeah, I mean, you always

want to be careful when you're using third -party

intellectual property, whether that's images,

whether that's video clips, whether that's sound

bites. Um, you know, podcasts and online digital

media is, is a lot more forgiving than film or

television is as it relates to, you know, unlicensed

sampling, if you want to call it that. Um, but

you always want to be aware of who you're ripping

from. You want to be aware of people who are

highly litigious. You know, the Tolkien estate

is highly litigious. Um, sir, Arthur Cohen's

estate is highly litigious. Um, if you get a

takedown notice. Take it seriously and take the

content down, you know, and and and I guess,

you know, in terms of. Best practices, make sure

that you are filing for a corporation, you have

your ownership structures with your partners

figured out, you have your equity splits figured

out. When you're engaging with people, you're

having them sign appearance releases or voiceover

releases or something like that. If you're filming

in a location, you're getting a waiver of liability

in case somebody gets hurt. Just a number of

things that you can do to overly protect yourself

if you have the budget and the means to get that

kind of one -on -one consulting with an attorney.

Makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. So, what are some

of your favorite TV shows and characters? Oh,

gosh. You know, right now, I am hardly watching

anything. on TV that is new. I take that back.

I'm really enjoying Agatha all along right now.

I think that that fits in well with October.

My wife and I usually do 31 Days of Halloween

every October, so we've been binge -watching.

Halloween movies. In terms of OG legacy shows,

I'll go back and watch Simpsons a million times

over. Same thing with Dragon Ball Z or Arrested

Development or Smallville. But I think at this

point in my career, I have... how do I say not

as much time to go back and rewatch things? Um,

I, I actually, that's how I measure a good movie.

Uh, a good movie or film is, would I go back

and rewatch it knowing that I have a limited

amount of time right now? Um, and if the answer

is yeah, then it, then it was a pretty good movie.

That's pretty good answer. Cause like I, I fluctuate

between TV shows as well and films and I kind

of weigh it based on, you know, I have this handful

of things that I'll actually still watch after

I've seen it the first time, and part of it is

I remember all the movies and TV shows after

I watch them, and it takes years to filter out.

He remembers all of them, and then he remembers

all the ones that he got cancelled. Yeah, yeah.

Because when I when I used to go to my in -laws,

they would have the TV on 24 -7 and I'd walk

in the room and within five seconds I would have

the movie picked out that they're watching. And

they were like, how did you know? And I'm like,

I heard five seconds of this or whatever. I just

jog my memory in and then like I just keep going,

you know. But yeah. So last question here. What

are the. Top three questions any creator should

ask a potential entertainment lawyer. Goodness

gracious. Number one, how much do you charge?

How much do you cost? Number two, are you the

right entertainment lawyer for the job? There

are a lot of different types of entertainment

lawyers to do a lot of different things, right?

Like I said, there are entertainment litigators

who show up. court and they argue issues in front

of a judge and they take people to court and

they sue and they issue lawsuits and demand letters.

I am not that type of lawyer. I am the, Hey,

if you have a deal in hand, if you're being offered

a gig, whether that's in an engagement or a merchandising

deal or a brand deal or something to that nature,

if you're looking to make money off of your entertainment

project and you have a buyer lined up that that's

where I come into play. So, so yeah, number two,

know what type of entertainment lawyer you need.

And number three, you want any relationship with

a lawyer to be a good fit. You want to be able

to actually speak with that lawyer as a human

and make sure that they understand what your

needs and interests are and that you can communicate

that to them effectively. Because really, we're

hired servants. We're hired on behalf of the

creators to carry out and advocate their wants

and desires and what they want to see in terms

of a deal. Don't be afraid to ask. Don't be afraid

to give direction. Work with your lawyers. Correspond

with your lawyers. Figure out what is truly the

best deal for you because we are kind of the

race car, if you will, but you guys are the drivers.

Yeah, that's great. That's great information

to remember for really anybody that's in creating

content. Yes, most definitely. All right. That's

going to do it, I think. Would you like to give

out your social media? You don't have to if you

don't want to. Yeah, no, I'm really easy to find.

You can find me at my website, LastingEntertainmentLaw

.com. You can find me on Instagram, at LastingLaw.

I think it's the same handle for TikTok, although

I don't check my... tiktok very often i don't

even know what tiktok is uh me either no find

me on find me on instagram looking forward to

you know hopefully creating the next wave of

animated series and live action nerdy stuff for

all of us to uh enjoy and consume absolutely

Yep, yep. All right, folks, that's going to do

it for this one. This is Geek Cast Radio episode

345. 15 years and only 345 episodes of this show.

We've got other ones that have a higher count,

but that's because I'm insane. So any other geeky

type things you want to say, Joshua, before we

get to the closing? No, just stay nerdy. Keep

pumping out ideas and follow your heart in terms

of those ideas. And if you have something really

cool, just try to get it made. It's never been

an easier time to get stuff made now with AI

and all the apps and everything. So find your

passion and follow it. Absolutely, absolutely.

Well, thank you for joining us on this episode

of Geekcast Radio Presents, and thank you to

our guest, Joshua Lastain. Be sure to check out

his website at the link in the episode's post.

Steve, thank you as always. Next time, folks,

I have no idea. I really don't. Geekcast Radio,

the flagship podcast, has always been, oh, actually,

I do know what the heck we're doing next time.

I do know. I can't believe I know this, but I

know. Steve will be back. We are going to be

doing a... Which, I can't believe this happened

all in the same year. I was shocked. Literally,

I almost fell out of my chair. But we will be

doing the breakout roles of Jim Carrey. Ace Ventura

wears a mask and gets dumb and dumber. Because

all three movies came out 30 years ago in 1994.

February, July, and December. February was Ace,

July was Mask, and December was Dumb and Dumber.

I was shocked, because I could have sworn those

movies came out at least a year apart from each

other. Ooh. Technical difficulties. Let's move

on, shall we? All right, folks. Well, everybody

left. Everything is fine. It was just a time

crunch, that's all. But, thank you for listening

to this episode of Geekcast Radio Interviews.

Coming up soon, we will have more interviews

on Geekcast Radio, as well as more topics on

the flagship show. I have been TF2 and Mike,

Steve Megatron, and transactional entertainment

lawyer Joshua Lastine. We're on this episode

with me. Steve is always with me, obviously.

He's co -creator of the network. Thank you so

much to Joshua for all his information. Such

a great interview, folks. Amazing, amazing information.

Something everybody in the entertainment industry,

no matter what part of it you're listening to,

or what part of it you're listening to. Wow,

I can't talk. No matter what part of it you're

in, you should listen to this interview. Unleash

the geek in you, and we will catch you next time.

You've just heard a podcast from the Geekcast

Radio Network. If you enjoyed this discussion,

head over to geekcastradio .com to check out

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next time. Next time, I bleach the cake at you.