Hitchcock Retrospective – Notorious Review

Hi, this is John Delancey and you are listening

to the GeekCast Radio Network. Hello and welcome

to episode 206 of The Cinema Geeks. I am one

of your Cinema Geeks optimists, Solo, and joining

me once again today is the Comic Concierge. Dan,

how you doing? I'm doing well, how about yourself?

Doing good, doing good. We are back into our

next film in the Alfred Hitchcock series. So

last time you heard us talk about the 39 steps.

And today we're going to go to 1946's Notorious,

an American spy film noir starring Cary Grant,

Ingrid Bergman and Claude Rains as the three

main folks. Dan, what was your experience with

this one before this record? I have never seen

it before. This is the first time watch for me.

So I was interested in going into this one Yeah,

it was a first -time watch for me as well as

will majority of these films which is one of

the reasons why we're doing it to Check off a

few blind spots for me and a couple for you as

well So this one is 1946. So, you know right

after World War two basically like on the heels

of it, I guess you could say and this one is

Like I said a spy film noir we have a US government

agent who is being played by Cary Grant enlisting

the help of Ingrid Bergman who is the daughter

of a German war criminal as we see in like the

opening sequence And he's enlisting her to help

infiltrate circles of executives in Rio de Janeiro

after World War two so What was your initial

take on notorious? Because like after I watched

this I looked at like some of the overall reviews

of it of the time and obviously it's known like

it we going into this it's known to be well regarded

and things like that but people at the time called

it like you know was. Albert Hitchcock growing

up and I was like I was wondering what they meant

by that But I guess it kind of makes sense because

almost from afar if I were to like watch this

without knowing which is cock I don't know if

I would have realized that because it does you

know with him you're so used to like the Dispense

like being such the focal point, you know He

tends to use the camera a lot lot of like movement

and wasn't there but I ended up Generally, they'll

really liking this film a good amount it It is

was not expecting it to be as much of a straight

not straight romance But like romance is the

center of this movie, but that is that that is

like where the conflict is That is like what

it's that's probably first and foremost is it's

a romance film like almost like a love triangle

But that's a love triangle that's been manufactured

because of this, you know potential plot to overtake

overtake the government but you know this this

this plot to try to spy on the nazis so it's

like it's it's interesting in that realm but

i just i was a bit taken back by like how much

this was a love story first but really i think

what made it work was just it was you know carrie

grant and ingren bergman um and like their performance

is like you forget like you know we think movie

star today and i don't know there's there's a

loss there's a not as like They just feel like

normal people now. I guess like looking rewatching

this Cary Grant felt like Different type of person.

He's like, oh that is a movie star Like that

is a movie star with a capital M like he just

felt like he commanded the screen he He had he

was so captivating the same thing with England

Berman who probably is the person making the

movie work But I ended up really enjoying it

half by yourself Yeah, this one really had you

know, I had nothing about it I didn't know I

didn't look up what the plot was or what the

story was gonna be about or anything like that

Going into this and I had obviously not seen

it before so went in with complete like no expectations

no anything and It really had me from like the

beginning like maybe not the courtroom scene

but that next sequence where they're showing

Cary Grant from behind and all you can see is

like you know, his head and hair from behind.

And you're not quite sure who this character

is or what they're all about. Like that sequence,

like hooked me immediately. And I was there for

the rest of the film, like just waiting to see

how we're next. Cary Grant, like I haven't seen

all of his films, but I know that I've seen the

Philadelphia story. I've seen arsenic and old

lace. I've seen a few of his films and he's always

been one of my like favorite from this era I

Was I maybe it was because I was in arsenic and

old lace in high school So like I remember watching

this as you know a teenager You know young teenager

and just like being captivated by how Cary Grant

was doing things and you're right Like he is

a movie star like I feel like there was probably

a whole generation of folks that grew up wanting

to be Cary Grant like he just Control like he

just controls the stage. He controls the room

and he just has a nice way about him. That's

like move he's Like you said a movie star with

a capital M, but somehow relatable at the same

time like he's playing like a movie star and

like the common man it seems like in a lot of

these ways like maybe not a common man, but he

has like that essence where it's like I can picture

this being like Whatever your uncle or like I

don't know like it's just like It was a weird

dichotomy of someone that like is clearly on

another plane, but like that I find not Not easy

to follow and like Not really relate to that's

the wrong term but just kind of like have that

feeling of comfort around him I guess he has

a way of copying you into like whatever he's

doing Yes, go ahead. He was even like you saw

a little bit of vulnerability without like, you

know, he obviously had this front because You

know, he is in love with this woman who is now

basically having to play this part and be in

this relationship that she's pretending to be

in in order to work for the government and like

you see how like it makes how angry it makes

them and like how he like takes it out at him

on her like and Like thinking that like it's

all her fault but then seeing him like Kind of

come to terms with that which which something

I wasn't necessarily expecting me like he actually

when he owns up to it There was a level of vulnerability

there despite him being kind of this like no

nonsense like you know, I I I'm the one that

has the command of everything that's happening

when and where but at times you saw that was

really just a facade even it wasn't obvious at

first sight Yeah, and it's interesting how they

do that too because they really introduced him

as like Cooler than the other side of the pillow

type like Rico Suave like Completely in command

and they almost deconstruct that throughout the

rest of the movie As far as like showing that

vulnerability or showing like the different times

where he you know He doesn't have the one up

on everybody So I thought that was interesting

and then you I think you nailed it to like Ingrid

Bergman is fantastic and I am like Casablanca

is one of my favorite films of all time and the

fact that we get two people from there with Ingrid

Bergman and Claude Rains was like Don't know

that that didn't hurt. I'll just say that much

as far as my experience with it What did you

think of the whole kind of from a story standpoint

like the espionage the the putting her undercover

the kind of the twists and turns of how that

worked did the story work for you or was it more

about the performances and like the The the other

parts of making a film. I think was more about

the performances because I feel like even with

the story the I think they kept us as arm's length

a lot and I think they even Didn't there's a

lot of details that you kind of just come up

like even when they get to Rio de Janeiro And

I'm like, I don't really know why they're there

and I realized they hadn't really go over it

yet. Like I'm like Even those characters are

like we don't even know what the mission is yet.

So it was like, okay, like they know it I think

it if The script itself I think it There what

I liked about it is how like it didn't waste

time but within that like there's a lot of stuff

It doesn't really even seem that interested in

exploring like the what is it like? What is she

really after this the secrets? It's kind of like,

you know, it's about like, you know, there were

uranium or whatever but I felt like that was

probably the least interesting part it was just

it was the Avenue to get us to this conflict

or you know that that was exciting but the plot

itself like Think with a lot of noir films. It's

a bit convoluted and how they get there's like

this Is this does this really make sense and

when you think about it? But I think it did enough

in order to make the movie work I'm also trying

to like as I was thinking about this one in my

head. I'm trying to like put myself into the

mind of someone in 1946 watching this which is

impossible because we know we've seen so many

movies during our lifetime that came on, you

know came out after this and I'm trying to like

picture or think about like how would they have

The audiences of that time responded I know you

said you read some reviews, but those are more

from critics but just like from a you know, just

a general audience of like from something that

they maybe haven't seen a thousand times like

how they kind of Navigated this and responded

to this because I think it does something that

I do like in Spy films or suspense films or whatever

even in some TV series. I appreciate when they

do this Was one of the reasons why I was like

a big MacGyver fan growing up. But when you see

your hero or you see your like main character

get in a position and you're genuinely questioning

like. OK, how do they actually get out of this?

Like I like that aspect of it, because sometimes

in movies we see stuff and we're like, well,

OK, it's it's not very suspenseful of how they're

going to get out of a situation like you can

see the writing on the wall or you can like predict

what's going to happen or or it's just not that

convoluted, but. I appreciate when there's a

time in a film where it's like, wait a second,

like, how are they going to write themselves

out of this little, little thing? And I felt

that that happened at least once, if not a couple

of times in this one where I was like, and it

also helps that it's, you know, dealing with

somebody that's undercover because that adds

to that. Like, how are they going to get out

of there without being figured out or without

being caught? I mean, there's one point where

Cary Grant goes into a room like so Not caring

like so not concerned I guess about what was

gonna happen that I was like, oh that was like

really Not well thought out by you Yeah, how

are you gonna navigate this now? And of course

they do because it's a movie and whatever but

like I appreciate that aspect of some of the

plot things and then I'll let you get back in

here, but I think I agree with you too on the

pacing and it's interesting because we just came

from 39 steps and one of the things that we both

agreed on with 39 steps is that the pacing was

very Quick like there wasn't wasted scenes. There

wasn't wasted moments You felt like everything

was interesting like all the side characters

interesting So it really flowed well and it was

like a breeze to watch through and I feel like

this had Some aspects of that as well. What did

you think? Yeah, cuz I was thinking about that

too because it's like, you know This obviously

it hinges upon the idea of like these people

could fall in love immediately And I think either

you buy that you don't I thought the performance

has made it seem believable but like you said

I do think it like I mentioned It didn't waste

time like for example, you know She ends up getting

married and do we get a scene of the wedding

or the honeymoon or anything like that? It's

like nope. It happened. You know what happened?

We talked about it. That's not we don't need

to we don't need to Dwell on it and that's the

thing. It didn't dwell on a lot of things I think

it you know, I feel like not to be like movies

today, but I do feel like movies today we would

have gotten like a 20 minute sequence of the

wedding and like they'd have to like show us

everything and Here I did like the appreciated

that they didn't do that They just you know,

they'd let it go as it was and like that you

knew you didn't need that information you were

able to Understand what happened. We don't need

that sequence. We are just gonna skip over it

and get into you know, what the point the point

is and also thought as you mentioned like the

that room sequence or like the whole idea of

like Are we gonna get out of this one? But it

also like, you know being Hitchcock using visuals

to like to help Clue in like the tension of something

like there's a scene where they're going trying

to go down to the cellar And there's no ticking

time bomb but there is because of the the wine

or the whatever they were drinking You knew like

if they ran out of that then potentially people

are going downstairs and they could catch them

So like it's just kind of going back to that

like they you know utilizing that as a quick

and easy visual to understand about, OK, this

is something you have to worry about. Or similarly,

you get this running motif of the key. This key

is utilized a lot. It's a big plot point. And

it does a great job of making you understand

what it's there for, its impact, and how it really

moves the plot along. So those like key like

those key no pun intended but at all there was

a lot of visual representation of really important

pieces of the plot of understanding like, you

know Decisions that were being made and how people

were able to figure things out I thought that

made it like you talked about what how would

people respond to it? I think it gave them a

lot of Things to look at or understand regarding

why characters were thinking the way they were

thinking or doing what they were doing Yeah,

and interesting you ring up that key I read something

that Cary Grant like kept that key after the

movie for a while And had it as like a little

good luck charm and that he eventually gifted

it to Ingrid Bergman later on I don't know the

details of that but also I wonder too now I know

there was long movies back in the day but I also

wonder like at times if some of this stuff didn't

have a pace because of budgetary constraints

and like a Concern for how much film they were

using I don't know but like this this has a runtime

of 101 minutes So, you know, it's kind of in

a decent spot there. But yeah, he or if we're

going to notice that as we pay attention as we

go through the rest of this Hitchcock, if it's

more of a Hitchcock thing where he just doesn't

like to waste screen time on stuff that he doesn't

dictate as important or something that he can't

get through with like a line of dialogue or two

instead of a, like you said, like a 15, 20 minute

scene that's going to explain it for us. And

so far I've appreciated that. I've liked the

pacing of both of these first two films for sure.

What did you think? I as far as the way because

I read something afterwards and I guess I hadn't

hadn't clicked with me at first because it seems

like it is somewhat. Of a movie that could lend

itself to. Like. I'm violence is maybe too too

strong of a word, but we're dealing with. Undercover,

we're dealing with spies. We're dealing with,

you know. Nazi. infiltrate infiltrating a Nazi

organization we're there you know we do have

a situation where we can infer that someone's

gonna die and things of that nature but I guess

there was there's not like a single moment on

this film that depicts an actual act of violence

outside of maybe like a slap across the face

or something and I thought that was somewhat

interesting how Hitchcock is able to do that

without letting you know he's doing that like

this is one of the like a movie that could come

out like later on and never get attacked by like

the the neighborhood watch group of of moms censoring

films or whatever it was like in the 80s and

stuff like that like i feel like it would have

just slid right past there but like it's interesting

that they don't choose to do anything you know

i don't know if that would exist today i guess

is what i was saying like they would feel the

need to show us Something more drastic and I

appreciate that they didn't have to do that But

they still got across all of the feelings of

that like creating that environment yeah, they

think they would clue us into it like they would

like, you know, or you know Able to establish

that stakes by because you had this one character

who has a little bit of a freakout which wasn't

even that big of a freakout, but I was confused

about Yeah at first and I get that explains it

but at first I'm like what is going on and why

is this guy? Why is everybody mad at him? Yeah,

so you know you have this character who to go

to dinner and he has reaction to a bottle of

wine seems kind of odd and causes other people

to react the same way and Like to his reaction

and then we don't see that character and it's

pretty you know Directly related that he's no

longer with us but I think that was important

to establish like yeah the death is on the line

here because if you Even were to just you know,

even in a group among friends per se, you know,

because everyone there was pretty much, you know

it wasn't like it was open to the public but

You know if you were to step out of line There's

a good chance that you're not making it which

made the ending I think all that more impactful

because like you said, there's no Nobody getting

stabbed in the back, you know, there's no Psycho

scene that we you know, the people are obviously

aware of the biggest moment of tension in this

is people walking downstairs And other people

in other people walking out of a room But it

still was very intense because I was like, you

know, because this is hitchcock So I was like

maybe they won't make it like maybe like because

it could it could be I could see him giving us

some sort of dark ending or something like that

because you know, obviously there was certain

regulations and things that had to go by but

I was I wasn't I Was curious but yeah, you're

right. There was there's not a lot, you know

it was a thriller that was all about atmosphere

and You know allowing you to put the pieces together

Which helped like I said with all those visual

cues that were given You know, so that's that

certainly and I thought the twists and turns

here to like the cat -and -mouse game that was

being played how They knew and like how she was

like found out and like oh But even though she

was found out there were certain things that

like they couldn't really you know Allow the

other Germans to know that there she was found

out because it would then endanger them as well

I thought it was like in a way of it made sense.

I can how all these pieces went together Yeah,

I was curious what you thought of the mother

character. So Basically, we have Ingrid Berg

and his character Alicia who is staying with

Alexander Sebastian as the character's name,

the character played by Claude Rains in this

house. And he has, you know, some Nazi friends,

you know, doctors or conspirators or different

things like that. And then he has his his mom

is there as well. And she plays a very slight

role at first and kind of gets more involved

as it is. But what did you think of like her

as a character and kind of how they used her

in the plot and different things like that? Was

it a character you enjoyed or kind of give me

your take on her? Yeah, I think I you knew right

away that she was going to be the one that caused

trouble on away I guess like she saw through

it like, you know, the mother's intuition or

whatever like she's like, yeah This person is

gonna marry my son right away. Like that doesn't

seem Everything like I thought I thought she

was that that classic foil, you know where she

Wasn't going to be she was going to be that influence

where you're just like, okay I actually thought

she was going to play a bigger role and like

Finding her out like she'd be the one that actually

like catches her or something like that But but

but her presence there again talking about tension

because she always you always were wondering

like Where's she at because she's clearly not

trusting the situation. She's looking for a reason

But so I thought I thought her role was the actress

was great and I thought her role wasn't important

And I did read somewhere that that's something

that we'll have to keep an eye on as we kind

of move our way through I don't know for hitting

all the films that do this, but there was some

Some reading that I did that said that Hitchcock

Spent some time with like the the mother -son

relationship in a few of his films and This is

the first time we've seen it because we obviously

didn't really see that in 39 steps So be interesting

to see if we see it pop up in any of the other

films and kind of how how it's portrayed and

things of that nature So what are the things

did you find out about this film that stood out

to you or any other? Commentary on things you

liked or didn't like No, I just had me also thinking

because you talked about the reaction of the

time and you thinking like this is 1946 We're

like what year so you know that felt like just

thinking when this was happening I don't think

when this was shooting World War two was happening,

but it was I just makes me think about like You

know it gets into although it's about World War

two it even ties into a little bit of the Cold

War because you know You have uranium this materials

the the center of it, which apparently also caused

them to be like Like there's a thing about how

the average cock said they were like being watched

by the FBI since it was such a hotbed issue But

I think it also it got into the time back before

the you know before World War two when There

was that like weird relationship with United

States and Germany We're like we weren't at war

but we were like kind of on the break, you know

There were some people in the United States that

were very you know, the German -American bond

and things like that I think it was interesting

how it tied into that that odd relationship were

like These are two countries that were clearly

like at odds but they had to play nice and how

that tied into this because you obviously like

I know that there are certain federal agents

that are there, but they can't do anything about

it. And they kind of have to just try to play

this crazy game. I find that really interesting.

And just thinking of its place in history, I

find kind of fascinating. Just trying to think

of the time when this came out and how it should

have played with people at the time, what their

reaction may have been. It says it was shot in

late 1945 and if we're talking late 1945, I think

the atomic bomb was dropped in the fall of 1945.

So it's being shot right after that, which is

kind of crazy. And yeah, I read the same thing

about the FBI having him under surveillance for

a number of months afterwards. He did consult

a Nobel Prize winner to find out some answers

about what he could put in this film. I guess

like the only thing that he would tell him was

that involved uranium. So that's why we get that

as a thing here What did you think about the

the final? I guess scene or the final shot kind

of how it all resolves itself. I Liked that because

I think against going back to that relationship

with Germany and America and how you basically

have this guy who is now is he's kind of having

to Basically the life he's late is coming back

to haunt him because you know, he's a Nazi and

now he because of everything he was doing now

the people that he was Working with are turning

on him because they don't trust him I thought

it was it was a good and like he wasn't even

I would say like an evil person He wasn't like

he seemed like just from afar Maybe a generally

nice guy per se like he he wasn't you know, like

Even though he was a Nazi they the way they approached

the character, which is weird to say I know but

like it wasn't what he wasn't like, you know

the characters a ruthless like You know like

crazed lunatic. He didn't come across. Yeah,

you're right Yeah, he wasn't like the characters

from like bridges lost arc, you know, so right

but at the same time he was doing some really

bad and obviously Evil things right and including

He was willingly poisoning her as well. So it's

not but I thought it was a good way of having

you know, it was a it was a very satisfying conclusion

because He got his kind of muppets per se but

I just it just showed the old saying, you know

Sleep with dog rise with fleas. It's like one

of those things where like the crowd he was around

It's now going to be leading to his demise because

of decisions that he made it just felt rather

fitting There's also I think one of the most

one of the most powerful shutting of a car door

that I've yes History was like, oh that has a

lot of meaning behind it So you had to reach

over to it even have the automatic logs you had

to like do the reach which is making much harder

than push, right? Yeah, there's no way I'm getting

in there. So yeah, I really liked this one. It

obviously is well received overall. I mean, I

think it has like a I don't know, 96 or 98 %

or something like that on Rotten Tomatoes. You

know, it's fairly high. And you said you read

some of the reviews of that time. Is this something

that you feel like over time has has gotten more

and more positive as more time has passed? It

was it was highly regarded then. I think it like

people. I don't think it won. I think it was

it was it was nominated for Oscars and stuff

like that. Um, but it was I think much better

received in a lot of his other films before this

Uh, so I think that that has maintained I think

for a lot of people I saw like a lot of people

name it as one of their favorites So I think

that is it has always been up there as one of

its hitchcock's most well respected films But

I think it's not it's not it's always it seems

like more seen as like maybe I would say second

tier But it's not where people put like vertigo

and things like that. It doesn't seem to be Ranked

that high but at the time it was certainly like,

oh this is this is I try to think of how to Over

the related to because you think it, you know

pitchcock before this Even though we he's so

respected now like he was seen as like the thriller

guy like, you know Like he was almost schlocky

in a way But this, you know Taking actors that

like you mentioned Cary Granting with the two

of the most respected actors at the time Having

a romance which for whatever reason was seen

as you know more astute and you know more of

a True art compared to like, you know something

that was more Schlocky or something that was

more like something like the 39 steps. So yeah

what because of that change I do think obviously

is we'll get to it like It's not like he stayed

here. He kind of he did a lot of different types

of films and I think he was ahead of the game

and But he would he would also I think maybe

just like sometimes Just want to do this movie

like this. That's more I mean, I think probably

love triangle got him and like you mentioned

that mother daughter really the mother father

relationship and how it played into the love

triangle as well, so I you know just The reading

I have done in Hitchcock and stuff like that

makes me think that's why that because he didn't

he was a co -writer of the script He didn't write

the script himself, but I'm guessing that's what

attracted him to the story and Since we just

covered box office in a recent episode. I'll

point it out. This came in number seven the year.

It was released in 1946 it made Four point eight

million dollars. So that's enough for number

seven back in 1946 though number one that year

was a movie called the best years of our lives,

which made 10 .1 million. So that's where we

were at back in 1946. And with inflation, that's

$8 trillion struggle. I don't know. Basically,

basically. And this was I think, I don't know

how where this I didn't do enough research to

find out like number wise when where this kind

of came as far as his US. Releases I don't know

if this was early on in those. I know 39 steps

was still one of his British releases I was 1935

and this is you know come in 10 years 11 years

later, so I'm not sure if this was one of the

first Strictly us films or if it was within the

first, you know batch, but you're right. It was

still early on before he really kind of became

What we know him as now so yeah, he's he did

other like Rebecca before this and you know Lifeboat

and so he this it wasn't his first but he he

did a few like American films before this gotcha

Do you think you have some things that are gonna

be? Vowing or vying excuse me for some awards

later on if we do our our Hitchcock Awards from

performances or from just anything in general

Never think you know, obviously if it weren't

two films in here, but I think you do, you know,

we like the previous film. I do think Performance

-wise we do we have got we got a huge upgrade.

Like it's like, oh, okay This is it is it does

have some of that like old -school like overacting

if you don't want to call it that but but also

there were those Smaller moments as well too

that were there. So yeah performance wise definitely

so I think that's Yeah, also if we do think anything

regarding, you know Relationships or anything

like that certainly up there too. And this may

be like a good like for for someone that's completely

Kind of like Alfred Hitchcock is a complete blind

spot for you and you haven't viewed You know

seen any of his films or you know You've only

seen one or two like kind of like me going into

this one. I feel like this one might be a good

starting spot I'm not saying 39 steps wasn't

a good starting spot and I enjoyed that we did

that one but this one might be a You know more

akin to what you're gonna see coming forward.

So I don't know It seems like it's a good entry

point into like what he's doing in a way And

it's on to be for free. So there you go. Yeah,

you can you can view it for free on to be so

So next time we're gonna be covering we're only

going two years So this time we jumped 11 years

from his last film that we covered now, we're

only gonna go two years into the future with

his next film that we're going to cover called

Rope. What's your experience with Rope and kind

of set the stage for us a little bit? I've seen

a little bit of Rope. I don't think I've ever

saw it straight through. I'm pretty sure I've

caught it either my parents were watching it

growing up or on TV, but I don't think I've ever

seen it from start to finish completely. I know

about it. I know people talk about it because

it's supposed to be This is not based by everybody.

I thought it was a play I know it's supposed

to be like one continuous shot or something like

that Something of that nature. So that's my knowledge

going into it. I beyond like what the plot is

I don't know or anything like that So I try to

go in blind as much as I can. So we'll see how

it is Apparently this is gonna rope is his first

Technicolor film So we're getting into new new

territory here, so I have not seen rope is at

all and I know nothing about it So I'm looking

forward to this one as well. So that's what we're

gonna cover in episode 207 anything any final

words for notorious or anything you'd like to

say as we close this one out then No, I'm good

Yeah, I think this is like you said I think it's

a step up I think this is like feels like we're

there now and I'm interested to see where the

rest of this journey takes us so if you have

your own thoughts on notorious that you'd like

to share with us you can go to Geekcast radio

website and leave some comments on the episode

post there or Probably the best way is you can

interact with us through our different social

media platforms so you can Tag the show and that'll

be at the cinema geeks or you can get to me at

optimus solo Dan How can people reach out to

you and that? Comic concierge are pretty much

all platforms there we go the ones that exist

the ones that are coming and going and who knows

what else is gonna happen in this crazy year

that we're gonna see here in 2025. So tune in

next time for another chance to listen to more

Cinema Geeks with Dan, myself and the movie Rope.