Batman Review

Hi, this is Kevin Conroy and you're listening

to the Geekcast Radio Network. Hello and welcome

to Gatecast Radio. This is the finale of the

Batman spotlight of the Death of the Family.

In this episode, we also will be covering some

issues that have nothing to do with Death of

the Family, just as a kind of precursor to the

The Pull Bag podcast that we're going to be launching

soon, which episode zero will be out. March 5th.

Yes, not long after this episode releases. So,

as you heard, it's myself, Steve Megatron, with

TFG1 Mike, as per usual. This episode we will

be covering Batman Beyond Unlimited number 13.

There's some reasoning behind that, which we'll

get into after the break. And then we have Injustice

Gods 1 and 2, which I've picked up as well. And

then We'll be jumping into the Death of the Family

conclusion and an issue that kind of has an aftermath

after the fact. So, we'll be right back after

this quick audio clip. Not the real one. Bruce

said he was dead. And? That's it. I know there's

more. Barbara, I'm a part of this. I need the

answers Bruce can't give me. I deserve them.

I thought talking about it would get easier over

time. But some hurts never go away. Dick Grayson,

Nightwing. had left to establish himself in another

city. There were three of us then. Bruce, myself,

and Robin. Tim Drake. Robin was out alone that

night when he came upon a woman in trouble. Hero

time! That evens things up a little. Not really,

bird boy. A bird in the hand. We soon realized

Tim was missing. Night after night we scoured

the city, running down every lead, pressing every

underworld connection. But no one had seen any

sign of Robin. For three agonizing weeks there

was nothing. Then one night we were sent an invitation.

The asylum had been moved to a newer high -security

building. The old building had been partially

demolished and hung open like a rotting wound.

Where's Robin? Robin? There's no Robin here.

Maybe he means our little James. Of course! That's

it! You know, Bats, we've been doing this little

runaround of ours for years. It's been loads

of laughs. But the sad fact is, none of us are

getting any younger. That old clock's a -tickin'.

Quite right, Pooh. And Harley and I were thinking

it was time to start a family. Add a Joker Jr.

to our merry brood. But rather than go through

all the joy of childbirth, we decided to adopt.

I wouldn't do it legally, but then we remembered

you always had a few spare kids hanging around,

so we borrowed one. No. My God. He needed a little

molding, of course. What kid doesn't? But in

time, we came to love him as our own. Say hello,

JJ. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Damn! It's Barbara!

Can you hear me? Your mother of the stinking

year! Ha! You'll see! We'll be one! to see him

so strong. But all too soon, the serums and the

shocks took their toll, and the dear lad began

to share such secrets with me. Secrets that are

mine alone to know. Bruce. It's true, Batsy.

I know everything. And kinda like the kid who

peeks at his Christmas presents, I must admit,

it's sadly anti -climactic. Behind all the sterm

and batarags, you're just a little boy in a play

suit crying for mommy and daddy. It'd be funny

if it weren't so pathetic. No, what the heck,

I'll laugh anyway. I've got slides. The last

sound you hear will be our laughter. Here you

go, sonny boy! Make daddy proud. Deliver the

punchline. Funny. And first up tonight is Batman

Beyond Unlimited number 13 and the awesome part

about this issue is And I know we haven't covered

anything prior to this, but as far as this series

is concerned, I eventually will do like a backlog

on the pullback. But for now, we're just going

to start out with that one. The awesome part

about it is it starts off after the entire Return

of the Joker event in the flashback anyway. It

starts off right after Joker's been shot, more

or less. Then you see Barbara who sedates Tim

and then you see Batman Batgirl and Commissioner

Gordon standing together having buried the Joker

outside of Arkham in an unmarked grave and Basically,

this is where the entire relationship between

all of them kind of falls apart right and This

is it leads into the the future because There's

a clown, you know 10 ,000 clowns event going

on in the future. However in this part Commissioner

Gordon agrees to keep it silent and then Batgirl

is going to try and show her identity and he's

like I don't want to see any more surprises tonight.

Thank you very much and tosses the gun back to

Batman and Says if this is gonna become a habit.

He's like, I don't want to be involved And then

he's like, Batman says, you know, we're not in

the business of killing and Gordon goes off and

then Barbara and Bruce get into it standing there

and essentially what happens is they build a

giant underground vault beneath the Batcave.

Yeah, like this is like we like throughout Batman

history. We've seen different parts of the cave.

but no one really knows how large it is like

how much of the Wayne property not just under

the mansion but how much of the Wayne property

does the cave encompass underground because it

says in that very first panel after after the

flashback thing you know Bruce old Bruce says

this is below sea level this is so far down that

you know not any ordinary person could ever get

here And he also said in this that because of

where it's located and because of the fact that

it was built after Joker died, the only two people

to ever know of its existence is Barbara and

Bruce because they built it. And so I thought

it was a really really nice touch that the writers

did. It actually kind of shocked me. Opening

this up and it even calls him out on it. She

says in the in the flashback She says oh, what

are you gonna do do do some research do some

investing and build a monolith or build a Under

she even calls him out and that's what they do

Yeah, and in this backflash you actually to see

part of Bruce's face turning to age Yeah underneath

the mask and she's calling him out tells him

that you know That between the scarecrow incident

scaring her and the event of this night that

she's decided to become a cop and Follow the

law and not be a vigilante and he's like I understand

and then just it jumps to today and Bruce has

taken Terry to this shrine more or less and Barbara's

already down there but and it also leads you

to find out that Harvey Dent was rehabilitated

yeah instead of you know kind of like the Dark

Knight returns in that essence except this one

he actually became you know legit and passed

the Harvey Dent law which I found a nice touch

to But the vault was was very interesting because

it uh It's pretty much where all the dead Rogues

are at Yeah, so kind of like in Batman Beyond

Return of the Joker where he goes to Arkham and

there's all these different areas that are in

the animatic Where you see Joker hanging from

the ceiling? That's a little bit different, but

and then you have all these different. You know

cells with the dead things of poison ivy riddler

and all the other guys, but Then you get to see

of course old Harley and the deedies Yeah, and

I thought that was a really nice touch as well

and they're all around your house arrest and

she's running some kind of a goofy plot of her

own which it has yet to reveal and You know down

in the Batcave he's Bruce is trying to show how

this mysterious person got in and Stole somebody's

dead body Yeah, and I found it funny that bonk

is down there Well, and then there's somebody

else I can't decipher who it is next to him,

but Yeah, it could be really anybody it almost

looks like like Bane Yeah, it could be Bane because

it's on a breather Yeah, so it's probably Bane,

but I thought that was kind of humorous And then

the last page of this whole thing that's not

the last page of the issue, but this last page

dealing with old Bruce and Whatever else is his

final words as Terry call the lead And then it

just the issue for me just departs like I was

taken so far out because we're then taking a

central city where the flash is and well apparently

go ahead well and not to cut you short but I

kind of see now how this all ties together in

essence I mean at least this part does it jumps

to Central City this is still part of it this

is showing us you know this dead guy that's walking

around and affecting people pretty much and you

have this girl kid flash running around and Tagging

things and then you see her working at the the

flash museum Yeah, and I'm still trying to decipher

who? Who the old flash yeah, who the old flash

is I'm almost willing to bet that it's not It's

either Barry or Wally I almost like it would

be wall I would think it's Wally and I because

I think that they're saying that the real the

the regular flash that we're all familiar with

Barry I think is the one that's gonna show up

at the museum later Yeah, so it only kind of

makes sense that you know the flashes run the

flash museum yeah so but I thought it was kind

of interesting and then you have the league there

and and everything else but I Think the problem

I'm having with with this issue and again I know

people are gonna say oh, why did you guys just

jump in at issue 13? It was because of what's

what we just talked about I? More so picked it

up because of the clown Because of the flashback,

yeah. Well, I picked it up because of the cover

and I just was like, eh, I'll just, what the

hell, I'll get it. And then I was telling you,

I'm like, holy crap. I'm like, it cuts into Return

of the Joker at the beginning. Yeah. And I was

like, that is... Yeah. That is like written gold.

Yeah. But my problem with this issue is you've

got that first story about continuing the flashback

and kind of putting a period on that and then

it goes into the future, same story. And then

it does this central - it's almost like it's

three - to me it seems like it's three or four

different issues in one issue because they even

do it the same way where one of them says Justice

League Beyond or whatever else written by blah

blah blah and then after the Justice League thing,

um... Well, and it does. It is essentially multiple

issues, and that's the only pet peeve I have

with the Batman Beyond comic. I don't like the

fact that it jumps between different issues.

I wish that it was just one whole fluid story.

I understand that there's a bunch of different

facets of the story that they could tell. But

I think that Superman Unlimited and Justice League

Unlimited should be its you know or the Beyond

version I think that they should be and I thought

that they were even though they show like a cover

for them I think that they'll they do compilations

where they do put them all together at one point

but I'm kind of disappointed that they aren't

their own and they just leave the two Batman

Beyond stories in the Batman Beyond Because then

you get in later and you have the conclusions

of the 10 ,000 clowns arc and then you have Dick

Grayson fighting with Terry McGinnis he's the

one he's the issue yes the same issue it's yeah

it's when they're fighting the the last clown

yeah Dick Grayson it has an eye patch yeah I

need to go back and I need to reread this I need

to maybe just skip the Justice League stories

and just read the two Batman Beyond stories back

to back because the Justice League stuff in this

issue just took me out of the book. So like I

didn't know what the hell I was like, what the

hell is going on here? I had no friggin clue

at all. And then this whole thing with the clowns

thing or whatever Bruce is supposed to be injured

in the same hospital. And and I read a previous

issue and Terry. It goes to Tim Drake for help

and Drake's like, you know, basically F off and

Dick Grayson is the one that ends up helping

him you know take down the whole regime and then

we get into the Superman one and I Haven't followed

any of that. So I have no idea what the hell's

going on other than the fact that there are these

like you know Mongol like creatures that are

helping, you know are praising Superman I just

I don't know that threw me out of my element

there So I just kind of give up on it, but I

mostly bought it because of the Batman Beyond

aspect Now you mentioned earlier that we will

go back and do the 10 ,000 clowns thing. Yes,

we'll go back We will do that in a in a back

issue of the pull bag because of the fact that

the first 13 issues of Batman Beyond Unlimited

are coming out in trade paperback or graphic

novel or whatever you want to call it 10 ,000

clowns It's coming out I think in either April

or May I'm trying to look for it right now But

it's this is the first and again for me this

is the first time I've seen something trade paperback

wise that collects more than five or six issues

but it this it collects stories from batman beyond

unlimited number one to thirteen ten thousand

clowns 1699 on sale date may 15th 2013 so sometime

in may over on the pull bag we will be coming

back to this and hopefully what happens in this

trade paperback is they just use the batman beyond

stories Do nothing with like I I'm pretty sure

that Justice League and Superman Beyond I'm pretty

sure they are their own books I thought I saw

DC Well, I thought they were but I think that

they advertised that they come out at the same

time as Batman Beyond because they're all on

the same issue Yeah, they do have technically

their own covers but they aren't actually in

the cover I think that they're alternate covers

for the front maybe maybe but Don't I don't know

if we're wrong about that, please email, okay?

Well, I'm looking at something here that was

posted on DC's website two years ago Spinning

out of the fan -favorite Batman Beyond series

come the adventures of the Man of Tomorrow. In

the DC Universe of the future, Agent Kal -El

is called back to action to stop a villain more

powerful than he's ever faced, all while his

own superpowers are starting to fade. Superman

Beyond Number Zero will be written by Tom DeFalco

and illustrated by Ron Friends. But that was

before the New 52. Right, I know. So it doesn't

technically take place. No, I'm not talking about

it taking place. I'm just saying that there is

a... There's a title out there Superman Beyond

that it's its own book. That's why I'm saying

again that I don't think that No, it was its

own thing at one time before the new 52. It's

just that they didn't sell very well So they

bundled them all together Yeah, is more or less

what's going on? but Shall we move on? Yes, we

shall In the question of who would win between

Bane and Batman, that's a very tough question

to answer. I'm not just saying that. Bane is

a big guy. He's a genius. He's incredibly strong.

There's a reason he's one of Batman's most formidable

enemies. Remember, he's the only one villain

to have actually broken Batman. But in all fairness,

Batman was in a very vulnerable... State at that

point look given Batman's Intellect and his skills.

There's no way that he's not going to destroy

thing So who do I think would win? please Batman

in this next matchup between Wonder Woman and

Harley Quinn. That's that's a harder one to answer

Wonder Woman has indestructible bracelets. She's

an incredible fighter. I don't think Harley Quinn's

gonna like the lasso of truth. She can fly, and

she can fight as well as any of the guys because

she's an Amazon. All that's going in her favor,

but Harley Quinn is out of her mind. She's insane,

and there's a lot of power in that. Harley Quinn,

she also has toys of her own. She has guns, she

has mallets. Did I mention that she was insane?

That's a very strong thing in her favor. But

between the two of them, I would have to say,

I don't think there's any question. Wonder Woman

is going to destroy Harley Quinn. Hey everybody,

this is Wayne Brady. And I'm Tara Strong. And

this is week one of the Injustice Tournament.

Smackdown. That's not really the name of it,

but that's what I choose to call it. All of these

DC heroes in one place, smacking each other down.

One person comes out on top. Who will it be?

That's what everyone wants, right? Smackdown.

From the first matchup, it's Batman and Bane.

And everyone will have an opinion about that.

But the one that I really want to get to, Wonder

Woman and Harley Quinn. Nothing hotter than a

super -powered Amazon and a costume freak. Just

smacking each other. Clearly Harley gets it because

she's so crazy she doesn't care. She would do

anything. Harley Quinn gets it. Sorry. She wins.

Clearly. But Wonder Woman is an Amazon. She's

near indestructible with the bands and she has

the lasso. She has some nice gadgets and an invisible

plane but you can still see her butt flying across

the sky. Exactly. I can see her butt flying across

the sky. But wouldn't you rather see Harley's?

Admit it. No! I mean... Wonder Woman in at least

in my head is like six feet tall and she has

on the red boots with the heels So she what six

two six three he's got red boots Harley can rock

red boots. Oh, she looks great in the red That's

right, but Wonder Woman pound -for -pound is

has Wonder Woman ever had a boyfriend. No Harley

has mr. J. I mean, how hot is that? That's a

boyfriend. That is a codependent relationship

if I've ever seen At least mr. J. Gives me some

excitement true because he's crazy One woman

can give you pain. That's true. She ties you

up in the lasso, and you have to tell me. Oh,

you want that. You want to be tied up. I didn't

say that, but... I heard that. Did you guys hear

that you wanted to be tied up? That's what you

believe. That's what I heard. Harley for the

win. Crazy, Harley. Sheer strength, Wonder Woman.

We'll talk about it later. Okay. Will you wear

the boots? Yes. Can I tie you up? Next up is

the injustice gods among us and for this I actually

have two issues the March and April issues which

are number one and number two and The number

one the issue cover is basically the video game

cover Cool, it's 3d. It's badass issue two. I'm

not gonna get into the details of the story yet

I'm just saying for as far as the covers concern

It basically has a close -up of the Batman and

Superman kind of anger looks and you see like

explosions around them. So it's pretty badass.

The issue one starts out with Clark finding out

that Lois is pregnant. But only Wonder Woman

has a strong enough uterus to - Well, we'll get

to that. Come on. I was quoting Brody. Yeah,

whatever um so anyways Batman's kind of hanging

out out in the middle of nowhere, and then you

know there's a distress call somewhere so that

he you know Superman leaves Lois and Superman

catches Batman saying you know what are you doing

a metropolis and he's Batman's tracking people

to Star Labs so the two of them kind of go out

together and start talking and Superman tells

him, you know Lois, you know, I have some good

news and Batman deduces that Lois is pregnant

he says how did you and he says you're sweating

your pupils are dilated and your left hand is

shaking you don't usually show any outward signs

of stress or fear and then he says He says the

last time I saw you this afraid you were facing

doomsday. He says I and I doubt it's doomsday.

You're grinning like an idiot Is what Batman

tells him and I just found that I just found

it hilarious and so Lois goes with You know Jimmy

to an abandoned warehouse for something, you

know, somebody's supposed to give him a scoop

on something and Then it cuts back to you know

Superman telling Bruce that uh He wanted him

to be the the godfather of the kid and then You

know Bruce gives a smirk and Then it cuts back

to the warehouse and you see That it's actually

the Joker and Harley under disguise and they

shoot Jimmy through the camera killing him shooting

him through the head and Then they kidnap Lois

Yeah, and then you know you see all the random

Justice League people going off doing their own

thing and Batman and Flash meet up then they

find scarecrow Dead in star labs Hit with some

Joker toxin and Then you eventually see Wonder

Woman Batman and Superman Discovering that Lois

is you know missing and they're they're wondering

what jokers doing a metropolis in a submarine

and Superman sees doomsday in this submarine

and you see the Joker and Harley kind of working

on Lois in essence not really saying why and

then you see like this green fog in the air and

Superman kind of goes apeshit because then they

discovered that it's like a modified version

of like the fear toxin right and Superman goes

off with doomsday flying into the atmosphere

and Joker and Harley are like it's time to go

and they're starting to leave Green Lantern captures

them and Batman does as well and then They're

trying to figure out what the reasons for everything

were then they can't find Lois and Right around

the time Superman gets to the atmosphere discovers

that he took Lois into the atmosphere and thought

it was doomsday So he essentially killed his

own wife. Oh I should have said spoilers Oh I'll

put that clip in from from his acceptance to

the VGAs. And Batman tells Superman to stop.

And that's why he realizes, you know, and then

so Batman starts pounding the Joker and the Joker

tied something to the heart rate of Lois. Yeah.

That when her heart stops beating, a nuke goes

off and Metropolis leveling it. Oh my god. So

it's a big nuke, and then that's, you see the

explosion and the Justice League standing off

somewhere. Whoa. That's issue one. And I was

like, that is hardcore, just dark. What the hell,

dude? Now you're gonna have to make me, oh god,

you and your powers over me are buying comics.

Now I have to get the thing so I can freakin'

read it for myself. Well. And then getting to

issue two you see Superman carrying Lois back

down into the husk of the city and Batman's interrogating

Joker Asking why and you know doing like the

Dark Knight Yeah, throwing him kind of thing

Wonder Woman goes to Superman in the you know

fallout zone and Green Lantern flash has saved

everybody that they could Yeah, and Superman

leaves Lois with you know Wonder Woman And starts

flying off all half -cocked pissed off and like

crazed And Green Lantern attempts to stop him

With his shield around him and Superman just

busts out and then steals Green Lantern's ring

Okay, I got a question here Which Green Lantern?

It's Hal Jordan That's the one that's in the

game, so that's the one that they're gonna all

right Okay, that makes sense, but um So you see

Hal Jordan falling from the sky, like way the

hell up. And then Superman saves him, you know,

so that he doesn't fall and die. And then Green

Lantern's trying to signal Batman and Superman

blows up the intercom that was in Green Lantern's

ear. Yeah. And hauls ass to where Batman and

the Joker are. Bus into Gotham prison. and shoves

his arm through the Joker. Wait, Superman does

this? Yes. So he killed the Joker? Yes. Shoved

his arm right through his chest and the Joker

died and Batman is just looking on in horror.

Meanwhile, Harley breaks out of the cop car having

heard that this happened and crashes the car

at a Dumb Joe's novelty jokes warehouse She gets

back in her Harley Quinn costume and get some

bombs green arrow breaks in and attempts to kind

of quasi save her and She tries to shoot him

and he sticks an arrow right in the gun and Then

she's like no way do it again, and then he's

like he's like what? It is tom taylor okay this

is he's he's for a second there i thought it

was epic dude the like she's attempted to hit

him with a mallet and then it goes it goes squeak

and then she says squeak i didn't know this was

the squeaky mallet i thought it was the one that's

boost your head all over the floor because for

a second there when you're talking about harley

i thought this These books might have been written

by Dini, because that is exactly the... Oh, they

captured this perfectly. Like, and she, she says

to the green arrow, she's like, do it again.

And he's like, what? She says, shoot another

arrow into my gun barrel. That was nuts. And

then, and then so she points it at him smiling

and he shoots another one in there and she says,

yay. And it, it, it's one that has a net. So

it captured her and then she says, you suck.

And he starts dragging her away in this like

car and he's taking him to the What did he call

it the? The arrow cave and So While he's while

he's driving her there she is picking up all

these random arrows that are singing it sitting

in his car and Like what's this one do what's

this one do? And there's one that's a boxing

glove. And he says that so I can punch people

and not have to, you know, or what was it? He

says, because sometimes I want to punch someone

who's a really long way away. Yeah. And then

he hands her another one and says, hold this.

And she says, what does this one do? And then

it's like sleeping gas knocks her out. Yeah.

And then she wakes up in the arrow cave, which

is like fortified with something that Superman

can't see through or find. And. She makes a comment

about the arrow cave being a stupid name And

then he gets offended and she says I know Batman

has the bat cave, but that makes sense bats live

in caves and Then she says why don't you call

it the quiver and he's like that actually was

better and then he ties her up and then she's

trying to get him to laugh like Joker and He's

like no. She says just a giggle. He's like no,

and then she says okay, and she puts on a fake

mustache And he gives like a ha. Yeah, kind of

goes away. And then it jumps back to Superman

and his fortress. And he needs to shave and he's

still like got blood on him and goes over to

stop a bunch of wars and basically pissed off

that the world's not calming itself. And one

woman's kind of like, hey, hey, hey, because

he was going to kill the guy and do a press conference.

And she's like, go get cleaned up so you don't

look like a freak. Yeah, and then they go hold

a press conference and he's saying all of you

will stop fighting or you'll answer to me and

That's where the issue ends with Superman saying

it's over all hostilities will stop immediately

or I will deal with you And he tells everybody

his secret identities Clark Kent and everything

and he's just basically said, you know, it's

like the injustice lords in a sense Wow, so I

was like I was like that is badass and from the

previews of what I'm hearing for the next few

issues How many issues is the injustice so far

they have five in the series There's only two

out right now that right, but are they gonna

I think it's gonna keep going for a little bit

Okay, I think it's a limited series kind of like

um except the Arkham games they drag way too

long, but I think that this will be a little

while, but I know that it's going to split the

league, basically Batman against Superman. Pretty

much, yeah. And I think I was reading that Nightwing

will make an appearance and be on Batman's side.

Green Arrow will be on Batman's side. Flash,

I think, is going to be on Batman's side. And

then I think that Wonder Woman, Green Lantern,

Damien Wayne, He's dead not in here, but um he's

gonna be they're gonna be on Superman's side,

so it's gonna be interesting I Have to now call

my comic shop and see if they have the first

two you bastard It's what I do yeah, I know alright,

so Wow these sound like amazing amazing. Oh,

these are hilarious. I was laughing. I was like

this is this is like gold Oh my god. Alright,

anything else to say about the Injustice gods?

Only that I'm looking forward to more of it.

Oh, yes, very much so. So we are gonna get to

the meat of this episode with the finale of Death

of the Family. I'll break you in two. Haha, Batman!

If you had the guts for that kind of fun, you

would have done it years ago. I, on the other

hand... A disgrace to the name Joker. Why, in

my day... There was death in the family, where

the voting public decided to kill Jason Todd,

and now in 2012, 2013, we've had death OF the

family. Over the last couple of months, Steve

and I have been talking about each issue... of

batman and the new fifty two uh... dcs new fifty

two issues thirteen through seventeen uh... i

think it was about issue fourteen where we started

talking about all the different times of like

me reading bad girl and nightwing you reading

batman and robin and whatever else and but last

time we talked about the sixteen issues where

i had said that you because of the ending of

of that girl and nightwing and batman and robin

You had to read those Before you read Batman

16 because they tie into it at the end of how

Joker captured them all This does the reverse

here Batman 17 you have to read that first and

then read Batgirl Nightwing Batman and Robin

whatever because Batman 17 is the finale of the

epic crossover death of the family Honestly after

reading it several times It wasn't as epic as

I thought it was gonna be. It was sadly anti

-climatic. I... Don't get me wrong. It was good

though. I love Scott Snyder's writing. I love

Greg Capolo's or... I forget how to say the guy's

name. I think it's Capolo. I love his art and

I love the way that the designs are in the book.

But the story, it just fell back on... Batman

needs Joker Joker needs Batman and You would

think after however Okay, technically a year

the Joker was away for a year, and then he came

back in this Five issue thing or seven issue

however many issues this was you know? To do

all this stuff to the bat family Not a single

okay, I get Batman doesn't kill but you would

think that jokers are murderous fuck he would

kill somebody He doesn't kill anybody in this

book. I Was it was hoping for him to light Damien

Wayne's face on fire with acid for Christ something

Sorry that comes in something else later No,

I'm dead serious. It comes into play in one of

the issues. I'm gonna cover Okay, yeah, I know

but but that's what I'm saying like like Batman

17 the writing is amazing the story's great the

whole thing with Batman turning the tables on

the Joker of you know apparently you don't know

how well I know this cave and this is my cave

and blah blah blah blah blah and then it gets

to Batman basically throwing it back in the Joker's

face saying I know who you are your name is and

and the whole time Joker is saying i'm not hearing

this shot up and the whole time i can i can the

whole time i was reading that part of the book

i heard mark hamilson voice in my head from return

of the joker when terry is making fun of him

and laughing at him and he's like i'm not hearing

this i'd like i'd i swear to god i i i i envision

that that dark joker doing that There's shock

value in the book with the whole hey Let's find

out what the main course of the meal is and it's

all the bat family's heads or supposedly their

heads and it really isn't it's this whole mind

fuck of You think what you see is what you see,

but it oh no It's basically red herring and I

like it. I think it's cool. I think it's interesting

that His face is now off completely again You

know, but Like, Batman didn't do anything. Okay,

I get, Batman doesn't kill, but you would think

that... After all that, you'd think he actually

would. After all of that? After basically having

us think for months that he either killed Alfred,

or cut his eyes out, or did something so horrible

to Alfred... Like, all this horrible... And it

just ends up in the Joker... Not necessarily

falling off the cliff, but basically... I don't

know. I just I Wasn't disappointed with the book.

I think it's cool. I think it's great I think

it's interesting how the bat family all got gassed

in the cave and just the whole he just that the

whole art of How that was carried out, but the

story it's like come on Snyder DC let him pull

a trigger let him do something that we would

not like For me there was no real Shock value

in this issue for others there might like I didn't

have the same reaction to this as I had when

I first read Batman the end of Batman 13 Like

I was like I was in shock. I couldn't talk I

couldn't eat, you know and until we talked about

it I was in shock for a couple of days just after

reading that issue once and I just this one it's

like It just goes back to the same old same old

Don't know. What did you think? I don't know.

Well, I really liked it and I did like that some

of it was more Thought -provoking than anything

else and that it was it it's more of a psychological

battle in this issue than it's a physical one

and While I would have liked to have more of

the physical battle in this I wasn't overly disappointed

just because of what they were kind of talking

about in here and the fact that you know Batman

got Joker's go to get him to kind of almost accidentally

on purpose kind of throw himself over the edge

rather than Batman having to let go which I thought

was kind of a nice touch and of course the the

thing goes on that Joker never dies but it also

You know has Batman figuring out like hey, I

know you never made it past this point Because

if you did, you know, you'd be dead essentially

Yeah, but I mean it as I said before I and as

you mentioned to I kind of wish they would have

killed somebody yeah Because it would give more

I mean granted Batman's gonna have more Not only

is his bat family kind of destroyed Like kind

of unraveling the Batman ink in a sense Which

was kind of a failure to start out with in my

opinion, but and then kind of unraveling the

Damien later on in another comic that we won't

be covering because I don't have it Unless you

want to cover it. I don't really care but You

mean ink number eight? Yeah, we might cover that

in pole bag or something. Yeah, but anyways It's

You know, I mean you get them the death of those

two kind of things so yeah, it kind of kills

the family but I'm kind of sad that they didn't

actually kill somebody Yeah, I was expecting

a death if this is the finale of this crossover

Okay, I get that the 18 issues or hell, even

the 17 issues now and the 18 issues and the 19

issues are the aftermath for the other characters

books like Batgirl and Nightwing and all that

stuff. I get that that's the aftermath for them.

But I was expecting the Joker to do something

other than to insert. What is this stuff at the

end about the toxin? About what? The Joker toxin?

Yeah. Basically, he created a new strand of it.

And it leaves behind a certain kind of fucked

up DNA addition. And in this, the molecule breakdown

is ha ha ha. And so essentially, one, he gets

the last laugh. Two, you know he's not gone because

of it, you know? And three, he's still playing

the Bat Family. Without them actually having

to see him Right. Yeah, and that's and I think

that's why that was kind of there to show that

You know, he's still going to have the last laugh

even though he's not actually in that area Now

I said to you off air a couple of days before

we recorded this episode that When I initially

read Batman 17 and I got to the end here about

about the ha ha ha and all that about the the

the elemental thing um the one thing i don't

get about this last page is why is the bug on

the screen in the last three panels because that

was the bug that was the bugs that were all over

joker's face okay okay now what i had said to

you a couple days ago was if this joker toxin

is a new strand and it's the dna coding is hot

What if he did what if through the toxin and

DNA? like My whole thing here my whole you're

thinking return to the Joker I'm thinking return

of the Joker with the microchip and he and he

encoded his DNA somehow into the Joker toxin

to where a Joker is going to come out of every

single member of the bat family now well, and

if you notice in the sequential episode issues

after Yeah, there's 17s They're almost kind of

sort of leading up into that Mm -hmm I don't

really know what's going on. I mean the covers

kind of show reflect some of that So I'm kind

of wondering where that's going. Yeah But I say

it's entirely possible. I know Snyder is sending

several interviews that he has another epic Event

that'll happen later this year. So maybe that's

what I don't know just like I don't like I don't

know I need to go back through all the issues

from 13 to 17 well 13 to 16 actually and just

read the backup stories because I never really

I only started reading this because I wanted

to read the actual story I didn't like it always

confused me like okay well that's the end of

that like issue 13 oh my god that's the end of

that but wait what is all this other stuff behind

it it's backup stories and I get that backup

stories are great people like backup stories

it gives more insight into what but for me it

again it's like oh hey here's this other story

read this now and it just it it didn't take me

out of each of those issues because they came

at the end and not in between like what happened

in Batman Beyond 13 but this whole thing with

the news thing afterwards that's kind of annoying

yeah I don't like that I don't I gotta agree

I don't like that as well but you know what are

you gonna do So overall I like Batman 17. I like

it, but it's not the epic conclusion that I was

like let up to be to to expect It's a great book.

It's a great story, but I just I wasn't It just

didn't offer me anything as far as like Where

is this gonna go from now? You know what I mean?

Yeah it I mean, I was excited for it, but at

the same time I was kind of like, you know, as

Joker would say, sadly anti -climatic. Yes. Because,

you know, you're kind of sitting there going

and like you're all pumped and you're like, okay,

what's more? And Joker fell off the cliff. And

for me reading Batgirl, Batgirl 17. comes at

a time. Batgirl 17 and 18 will come at a time

where at that point before, like while the issues

were being written or whatever, like after 16

came out, DC had fired Gail Simone. So how do

they, they fired her and rehired her. So she

didn't write two issues of Batgirl 17 and 18

will be written by Ray Fox. F -A -W -K -E -S,

I think it's Fox, or I don't know how to say

the dude's last name. I don't like his writing

style. I don't like the way that the speech bubbles

or the thought bubbles are in the book. And the

art is still great. The art's amazing in Batgirl

17, but it's basically... Her brother is her

archenemy. James Jr. is her archenemy, really?

Seriously? They made him nuts, though. I know,

they made him nuts, and he kind of looks like

what the Joker looked like before he got acid

spilled on his face. You know what I mean? If

you look at the Batgirl 17 cover, it's her and

him, and he's got these weird wiry rimmed glasses,

and he's got this cackling laugh on his face.

I swear, it looks like the Joker pre -acid. And

I just didn't like the writing style. I just,

I don't know. I can't wait to get to Batgirl

19 because Gail Simone is back on, starting with

that issue. But it's basically her versus her

brother, and that's what it's gonna be for 17,

and I think that's also what it's gonna be for

18 as well for next month. The other one I read,

which I'm absolutely loving. No, I only have

one issue with this one is Nightwing with Kyle

Higgins as the writer Roger Bonnet and Juan Jose

Ripp I believe is how that name is pronounced

Nightwing 17 Nightwing on a rampage and only

Robin can stop him Fucking hell But this is basically

the story of Nightwing that like Dick Grayson

doesn't know what to do after death of the fact

like he doesn't you can't cope he can't handle

it he's still dealing with the the stuff from

Haley's Circus and Everything else because he

he has to deal with all the funerals because

Joker killed all those people he killed the entire

Haley's Circus people as far as I can remember

from reading this and Again, what I love about

this book is the style and the way Kyle Higgins

writes because it's stuff that I can see... It's

Kyle Higgins writing, but it feels... because

I know he's influenced by Paul Dini and Bruce

Timm and all that and all the DCAU cartoons.

So I can hear Lauren Lester's voice coming out

of the comic version of Dick Grayson. The only

thing I'm not too keen on is... in this book

and I think it was also in Batman Inc. number

8 where Barbara in Nightwing 17 calls him Richard

like I get it you know Dick Grayson Richard Grayson

I get that Dick is a shortening of term of Richard

but it's one of those things where like when

people call him Richard it just I'm not used

to that. Well, everybody calls him dick. I know,

but in this issue, when they're at the funeral

scene, she says something about, it'll be okay,

Richard, or I'm here for you if you need someone

to talk to or something. That's one just terminology

that I'm just not that keen on. And this whole

issue here is basically, Damien has to stop him

from just Going crazy and you know finding out

you know Dick to this point is about to go off

the deep end in this issue and Damien has to

stop him from doing that and they talk and They

bond and whatever else and all this and all that

and that's all well and good And I enjoyed the

issue I enjoyed reading it out of all of the

ones that I read for this month This is the one

I like the most again It has the news stuff.

I don't like the news stuff at the end, but overall

Nightwing17 was absolutely amazing writing. I

absolutely loved it. The art was so well done

and it's just such a good book and I can't wait

to read more of it. What else did you read for

the Bat Books this month? I read the... Red Hood

and the Outlaws okay, that was an aftermath story

of Death of the family and it starts out with

You know Jason Todd kind of roaming around kind

of Almost playing big brother to Damien and kind

of relating to him in the fact that he's the

new Robin and You know the fact that you know,

he kind of explains, you know, we've all been

there all three of us, you know and He's saying,

you know kind of reminiscing in his head that

you know, he was like that before he died and

came back and you know, you see him without his

mask on and everything and he just looks fine

and You know, he's going around and you see him

with some of the outlaws from his group and then

He goes in and you see him in One, you know in

in Bruce's safe house essentially, right and

Dicks in there as night wing and Jason Todd's

like you should go out there and talk to I forget

what her name is but uh It's it's one of the

outlaws anyways, um and Dicks like I could never

be close to anybody again He's like, I don't

want to have anything happen kind of thing and

so he's kind of in a way becoming like Bruce

in that essence and kind of resenting everything.

And then Jason's like, I'll take care of them

kind of thing because they're friends of Dick's.

And then you see Jason kind of roaming around

in the mansion of essence. Alfred coming up and

asked him if anything, you know, he needed anything

or if he was staying with them and He made a

comment about the fact that Alfred's already

back up on his feet and asking if they need anything

and It's more so like a reminiscing kind of thing

and then you know, they all start parting their

own ways and kind of going off and everywhere

and He goes to say, you know goes to get his

his mask and it happens to be in the Batcave

Yeah, and he bumps into Bruce and he was kind

of hoping not to and Bruce kind of makes a comment

saying I know you you were going to leave without

saying goodbye yeah, and He kind of commented

on that then grabbed his mask and He asked if

um what Joker said was true and about Joker creating

him and Yeah, Bruce said no the Joker didn't

create you and neither did I that's you're doing

and Then he in his head says, you know in his

head that he you know is glad that Bruce said

that Yeah, because it means it's his own man

kind of thing and then he puts on his mask and

he's walking up and then a hologram of the Joker

appears In this entryway and he's talking to

him and kind of alluding to the fact that That

he's saying that well if you're seeing this it

means that I'm either dead or you know I'm missing

or something like that and then he was saying

that you had such potential and you know, I worked

hard on crafting you into what you are now and

and all this and Basically said he was a disappointment

and he said You know, how about we you know rectify

that and all of a sudden you see the mask You

know Jason Klein at his mask and like an acid

kind of thing is burning through around it and

You know you see on the last panel Bruce standing

there having peeled off the the Red Hood mask

and everybody else standing around kind of in

horror and you see Jason lying on the floor His

face melted and burnt. Oh Wow, so that's where

your acid to the face thing came into play Yeah,

obviously he lives because I mean he's in you

know, everything else kind of replacing Damien

in a sense, but But yeah, I thought that was

kind of interesting and that's the only reason

I picked it up was because it tied You know into

the death of the family Right, yeah, um as far

as Batman incorporated number eight Damien dies

Why couldn't that have happened in Batman 17?

Because they needed him I Don't know I didn't

need him but Damien dies quote -unquote dies

for now And I brought up that there's still the

Lazarus pit, so yeah Overall like I said Nightwing

17 was my overall favorite as far as the storytelling

I did enjoy Batman 17, but as we said I found

it sadly anticlimactic And I just can't get into

the writing of Ray Fox and Batgirl. I just I'm

so glad that's only one more issue before uh...

gail simone comes back nothing against that writer

but from that girl thirteen through sixteen it's

been all gail simone and of course you know there

is an unfortunate thing of them firing her in

the rehiring her but it's like a three you know

that as the thing is like i don't know i don't

know overall i did enjoy them uh... this month

uh... like i said before i will be Most likely

both of us if I have to buy it for both of us

I will I will be getting 10 ,000 clowns the trade

paperback which collects Batman Beyond Unlimited

1 to 13 So we will be doing a back issue special

for for the pull bag on that So we're gonna head

to a quick ad break and we're gonna come back

to close the show we'll be back after this Coming

in March 2013, GCRN presents The Pull Bag, our

brand new comic book review podcast. You have

heard us reviewing comics over on GeekCast Radio.

Now we are diving head first into a full on comic

book review show. The entire GCRN crew will be

on host rotation, and we are even bringing in

new voices. We'll cover anything from Marvel,

DC, IDW, Transformers, TMNT, G .I. Joe, Master

of the Universe, anything and everything comic

book related will be in The Pull Bag. So tune

in this March to find out So we are back and

that is going to conclude the special comic book

review stuff on Geekcast Radio. After this we're

gonna do episodes 41 to 50, which are the GCN's

top 10 film countdowns. It's been a fun ride

doing the Batman books. We will be continuing

the comic book review stuff. Over on The Pole

Bag, our brand new comic book review show coming

up in March, that podcast will basically air

whenever. We haven't really set up whether it's

going to be weekly, bi -weekly, monthly, because

it's not just myself and Steve. It's any of us

on the GCRN staff that reads comics that wants

to do an episode. So it's pretty much going to

release whenever. people record reviews for stuff

Most likely for Steve and I or for anyone else

that I work with it'll be monthly Twice a month,

maybe it's just gonna depend on what we're doing

Now the focus of the pull bag is current issues.

So Anything like for Batman anything Batman 18

and beyond We'll do those but we will be having

episodes that are back issue specials or graphic

graphic novel episodes or something will I'll

come up with Stephen I'll come up with some sort

of subtitles to distinguish the regular episodes

from the from the old stuff because we do want

to go back because I've read Batman gates of

Gotham I've read back Batman Arkham City I eventually

I need to get my hands on the killing joke we

both do yes I actually should be able to find

that I can find that I can find it on Amazon

for like 10 bucks. So that's not that that's

not that big of a deal But we will be doing that

as well. But just remember the pull bags main

Mainstays current issues But overall it's been

an epic epic event even though the end was kind

of anti -climactic So yeah, but that you know

only leaves room for the revival of the Joker

later on Yeah, more stories and seeing where

it goes and everything else. Any other final

thoughts before we close this out? No, I think

that's it. Alright, next up on Geekcast Radio

is episode 41, Top 10 Action Films. Unleash the

geek in you. Ooh, technical difficulties. Let's

move on, shall we? You've just listened to Geekcast

Radio. on the Geekcast Radio Network. There are

several ways to get in contact with us or leave

feedback for the show. First, visit the website

geekcastradio .com where you can comment on all

of our different podcasts. Second, you can rate

our show and leave us feedback and iTunes. Third,

follow us on Twitter at Geekcast Radio. Four,

become a fan on Facebook. Go to Facebook .com

slash Geekcast Radio. Call the voicemail line

502 -526 -5821. Please remember to tell us the

show you are leaving the message for, and your

name. So until next time, unleash the geek in

you.