Batman History, Films, and Rogues Gallery

Hi, this is Kevin Conroy, and you're listening

to the Geekcast Radio Network. Hi, this is Lauren

Lester, and you're listening to the Geekcast

Radio Network. This is Kevin Conroy, and I am

the goddamn Batman. This is Batgirl, and you're

listening to the Geekcast Radio Network. Ever

dance with the devil in the pale of the night?

What? I always ask that of all my prey. I just

like the sound of it. It was the year 1939. There

was a dark legend who was born of Gotham City

and Batman was his name. Hello and welcome to

the All Things Batman episode. Special thanks

to the great people of DC Comics for providing

content and research for this episode. I am your

host, Steve Megatron Phillips. Joining me on

this trip to Gotham City are the following panelists.

Dave Jones -Mike. JT from Saskatoon. And Mike

powers from the lunchroom and XRG Hello guys,

yo, hello So I've been looking forward to this

I can now honestly say all the comic books cartoons

and movies I've watched in my life are legitimately

research Yes, yes, that is that is the point

of doing podcast reviews But Yes, I've been looking

forward to this for a while. Especially for the

fact that I grew up on Batman and on comics.

So this entire week has been just superbly awesome

to do. So before we go off on a tangent, I'm

going to rein it back in. We're going to start

out with the history of Batman himself. He started

out as a created character by Bob Kane and Bill

Finger. The character first appeared in the Detective

Comics number 27, May 1939, and then primarily

his name was spelled out The Batdash Man. Which

is the initial incarnation? What are your guys

thoughts on some of the like as far as his transformation

from the 30s on through to now I Think it's just

been Amazing I mean for me I originally picked

it up in reruns in the 80s for the 66 television

series that was my first exposure to Batman and

as well as the you know the Adam West, Casey

Kasem, Batman and Robin cartoons. But the overall

history, I mean, he has evolved and done so many

different things over the years. Some people

like some of the stuff that was done in the comics,

some people don't. But it's just he's had such

a rich history for an ordinary guy. You know,

this isn't... This isn't Superman, son of Krypton.

This isn't, uh, you know, hey, have this piece

of jewelry and use your willpower to beat people

up with giant green hammers. You know, it's not

like, or, you know, it's not like, oh, you've

just been bitten by a radioactive spider. It's

nothing like that. It's a guy going out and kicking

ass and taking names. to avenge his parents'

death and to right the wrongs of Gotham City.

And I think it's just been amazing. The last

nearly 75 years, it's almost 75 years at this

point, and it's just awesome. What about you,

JT? Well, no, I agree. I mean, this character,

I mean, all the comic book characters that I've

read growing up, I mean, he's more of a pulp

sort of... Here pulp vigilante type then a costume

superhero I mean you look at guys like the phantom

the shadow the green hornet, you know Doc Savage

they all have like fairly simplistic origins,

but there's in that simplicity it opens this

gateway for like all these different takes on

the character i mean you have the original grim

and gritty batman through the 30s and 40s you

have the goofy sci -fi zany adventures due to

the seduction of the innocent in the 50s and

early 60s you know the more relevant batman of

the 70s the you know the dark grim and gritty

that frank miller gave us with the dark knight

returns in the 80s and so on and so forth i mean

it's just in this this simple concept of you

know the boy crying out for mom and dad having

ripped away like you know and it's one of the

cool things about batman i'd like to point this

off straight off is Him and his villains it's

literally like if you've heard this in like podcasts

and reviews and you know If you watch that history

channel special in the psychology of Batman all

it is is one bad day Batman had any Bruce Wayne

had that one bad day where his pants were taken

from it He went on to become like the badass

of badasses the Batman whereas the Joker, you

know went ass over tea kettle into a tank of

Toxic chemicals and he became this kill crazy

clown now It could have just as easily happened

the other way, but that's what I love about Batman.

It's so simple, but it's so... What do you call

it? It's infinite in simplicity, kind of, to

say. That's my favorite thing about Batman. You

can do so much with so little. And with such

a long history under his utility belt. It's there's

so many stories that have been told in so many

different directions. It's been taken and whether

it be different universes or Even within the

same universe there's more than what this guy

could possibly have ever done, but it's Each

story is entertaining in its own, right? Well,

yeah, I mean and certainly Well, I mean it's

just like I grew up reading like, you know My

initial introduction to Batman was the Adam West

66 series, which I love and it's a crime against

humanity. It's not on DVD So there's that but

I mean I grew up reading My grandma had these

old paper bags like all these comic books my

dad had from when he was a kid My dad grew up

in the day of like the hundred page specials

So I grew up reading a lot of the silver age,

you know from like the early 60s into You know

around the time the Batman TV show came out when

he got a little more serious with Denny O 'Neil

and all that it's just I Love the silvery. I

love a lot of silver age comments, but Batman

specifically. I like the goofy silver age stuff.

They did Where you know, he has like rainbow

costumes and they fought a guy named zebra man

who had magnetic powers Like, what's, like, uh,

you know, Mr. Booth, what's some of your favorite

Batman stuff? Like, where do you chime in on

that? Well, I'm feeling kind of outclassed here.

What was your introduction to Batman, basically,

I should ask? Well, like everyone else, I think

it's the 66 Adam West in the 80s. I used to watch

reruns on it, on A &E, I think it was, at the

time. I've never actually read a Batman comic

until about two years ago. I read a couple of

Jeff Loeb's graphic novels. Oh, you poor, poor

bastard. I couldn't even stand Jeff Loeb's comics.

I can't stand reading DC comics to begin with,

so I don't feel that poor. I, of course, watched

the... I saw the 89 in the drive -in and loved

it as a kid. Remember going to see the Batmobile

when they had it at the Home Depot up the street

Shortly after the 89 was released on home video

and then I Like everyone else kind of fell in

love with Batman the animated series and the

Tim verse. It's pretty much You know besides

the movies that the Tim verse is pretty much

where my Batman knowledge comes from so for myself

my first introduction to Batman was Not only

the 66 Batman series because of course my parents

grew up on it so of course I'm going to grow

up on it. My dad actually took me to the bookstore

which back in the day they had lots of bookstores

and also they sold comics. The devil you say.

Yes. But he took me in there and my first comics

were Batman. were Detective Comics, and I unfortunately

do not have any of them anymore due to financial

reasons back in the early 2000s, but from that

day on, I have loved the character of Batman.

I have loved the entire, whether it be his gadgets,

his villains, the cool vehicle. the costume,

just the whole persona of the character I've

kind of latched onto and enough that when the

92 animated series came out and I just, I love

that series. For me, that series ranks even higher

than my love of Beast Wars. I love that series.

I've also managed to keep out of all the toys

I had as a kid. From that, I mean, I've seen

the Tim verse I heard Tim Burton verse. I like

the 89 Batman after that the films kind of fell

off the the bandwagon for me until the Nolan

verse but That was pretty much my first introduction

to Batman and I've kind of followed it ever since

but it's gotten stronger in the Years more recent

following the Dark Knight And I've recently actually

started collecting the comics again so With that

I think we should move into For instance the

the bat suit history Yeah, which JT sent to us

What what are some of your favorite eras of the

costume I know that they're many and diverse

and it changes pretty much every time they change

story arcs or universes or decades. Artists.

That too. Yeah. No, I think probably one of my

all -time favorite Batman artists, because it's

the one I grew up reading the most as a kid,

was this guy named Jim Apparo, who he did, I

think, pretty much almost a complete series run

of Batman and the Outsiders, which was... a title

where Batman finally had it up to his point of

years with the Justice League. He's like, screw

it, I got my own squad, we're gonna do shit our

way. Which had GeoForce, Black Lightning, Katana,

Metamorpho. And he just had this really strong,

like in his art, he had this really strong presence.

Everyone looked like they were ripped, basically.

And not in a ridiculous way, it's just everyone

looked solid. And I really liked that about the

art. through his art my probably my all -time

favorite Batman costume was the classic gray

with blue and the you know the silhouetted bat

with the yellow oval on his chest and because

I when I really started collecting comic books

in the 90s I'm I'm I'm kind of a fan of what's

been called the as bats costume now for listeners

that don't know in the mid 90s around the time

Batman or Superman, you know shuffled off the

mortal coil and died This guy we all know the

big guy named Bayne Mexican wrestler mask likes

to suck on this super steroid called venom You

know, he broke the Batman's back and he turned

the Batman persona over to this new guy named

Jean Paul Valley who was basically trained as

an assassin through like post hypnotic suggestion

And as time went on, as the stress of being Batman

got to him, he started building this costume,

which was like, it was the, what do you call

it, it was like the 90s personified. It's like

pouch straps around the leg, big spikes on his

gauntlets, and he had these razor -fingered gauntlets

that shot like razor -sharp batarang discs. I

kinda like that just for the sheer ridiculousness

of it. I like that one too. No, it's, and it's

pretty cool visually. I mean, it's... Almost

like anime in a way just you know with all the

The blue and the gray and the silver and the

red and the eyes and all that as far as beyond

comic books costumes I Mean what they did in

the animated series like Batman TAS was awesome

I really like the way they kind of redesigned

like the in The Batman animated series they made

him a little more Superhero we ninja in a way

just in the way that he fought and everything

in there As far as movies go say what you will

about the Michael Keaton bad suit I I loved that

first one in the first movie you know he couldn't

turn his head to save his life, but You know

I just like the look of it and from there on

out. You know mr.. Schumacher came in and screwed

it up Yeah I Hesitate to say yeah, he okay bat

nipples aside. I did like the initial version

of the costume that Val Kilmer wore in Batman

Forever, but once you start adding highlights

to Batman, you kind of defeat the purpose of

him skulking around in the shadows. Yeah, I kind

of agree with you there. And I did like the Chris

O'Donnell costume, you know, the Tim Drake -esque.

Yeah, like that too. With the stylized R and

all that. And I was listening, you know, to...

You know the twig crew and their Batman thing

the other day just in preparation here in some

other opinions I did like that one I wish they

would have brought it over to Batman and Robin

not that it really would have helped that movie

at all No, but either give them keep that costume

or give them the nightwing suit that he had because

what he had in Batman run That was basically

Dick Grayson. That was the nightwing costume

and it was great, too Oh yeah, no, it looked

great, but it just looked stupid with the cape

on. So, yeah, from there on out, you got the

Nolanverse movies, and I like, again, with Batman

Begins, you've got basically the new millennium

version of the 89 costume, where he couldn't

turn his head to save his life. I did like the

redesigned version he got in Dark Knight. And

that's kind of because I mean basically had the

same suit in Dark Knight Rises But that second

one I really like because you know that looks

like something Batman would wear if he was real,

you know gives him free range of movement and

still gives him some protection you can fire

the Blades from his gauntlets of people if you

want. So I like that one out of all the movie

costumes. That's number two I still love the

89 one just a little bit more for sure visual

appeal Yes I guess I'll go next. For me, I like

a multiple of the costumes that are featured

in the entire mythos of Batman. For me, I guess

I'll bring it down as far as feature film, animated,

and comic. Feature film, I have to agree, I love

the Tim Burton 89 Batman costume. There's just

something visually appealing about it that I

just I I can't You know fathom a better You know

realistic costume I while I do like the the Nolan

ones in their own right. I still prefer the 89

film one I do like the the Dark Knight Rises

version as well because of not only the functionality

of it, but just because it's sheer badass, but

I still like the 89 Batman. As far as the animated

forms, I still have to go with the animated series

look because it's got kind of the nice mix of

the Tim Burton Batman with some of the older

Batman styles, but it's still darker than the

light blue costume thing. I wasn't a fan when

they reimagined it for the other animated...

adventures the new adventures the new adventures

and the red sky series yeah yeah and the the

Justice League and the unlimited one I was all

right with it but I because it was kind of a

nice happy medium between the two I liked it

better for that reason but I still prefer the

92 version Batman Beyond I love that freaking

suit Wish that there was a time when we got to

see Bruce actually wear it more other than just

in the introduction episode or at least the precursor

suit like they did in the Gotham adventures comics

Mm -hmm. They had Bruce wearing kind of a happy

medium Techno suit between his he was dressing

in drag wearing the Batwoman suit whoops No,

he was wearing the new adventures Costume mixed

with the Beyond kind of thing. It was kind of

it was it was nice Just the one thing I got to

mention about the Batman Beyond costume I like

how they animated when you see Bruce in that

first episode He looks like the TAS Batman and

even though it's the same suit when Terry wears

it You know how visually it just looks so different

like he's got like the foot long bat ears and

all that I know how they differentiated it between

the two. It's cuz Bruce has a big head and Terry's

tiny He's also got a chin like Bruce Campbell's.

It is more visually appealing when Bruce wears

it. As far as jumping into the comic line, for

me, I really like his Batman Inc. costume that

they introduced in 2010. It's got a movie feel

to it. It does have that kind of feel to it.

It's very detailed. It's very similar to the

Earth One Batman costume. But I really like that

suit. And the new 52 suit, I really like too.

As far as comics. But I also have to agree with

you guys in mentioning the Nightfall version,

the Azrael Batman. I really did like that at

the time because I did have the entire Nightfall,

Night's End. Night quest all of that so I got

to see that Transformation into the Azrael Batman

and then his downfall so It was really nice seeing

him take down Bane as Brutally as Bane took down

Bruce. Yeah, it's just no no thoughts He just

shooting batterings into his skin. He just it

was it was great Yeah, one costume I forgot to

mention was they had like this storyline called

no man's land if for like two or three years

in the Batman comics were basically There was

like this plague swept through Gotham this earthquake

trashed the city and then the u .s. Basically

wrote Gotham off For the most part and basically

a lot the biggest piece of Gotham City is an

island not unlike Manhattan That where they shut

off so you see Batman, you know for a while there

They they kind of regress in terms of society

you good there's people are spraying tags to

mark territory and I love the version of Batman

he gets like this bulky old like utility repairman

belt with like these huge pouches and like sprays

can't spray paint and Clips on the belt and it

just kind of got this kind of like almost steampunkish

sort of look to him kind of took it back a few

years Which I really like and a cool thing about

the have you guys ever played like the the Arkham

games that have come out? Yes, I love that series.

Yeah, so one thing and you know talk a bit more

about the games later But one things with the

newest one Arkham City when I got the game of

the year edition because it deservedly got that

Once you beat the game once you have access you

can go back and play through the game again But

you can do it with different skins. There's like

the 1970s blue and gray suit. There's Batman

Beyond Batman ink Dark Knight Returns earth on

Sinestro core Batman yes Yeah, and then that's

like, you know, I mean it doesn't really affect

the physics I mean you can go around in like

the day glow blue and gray suit and hide in the

shadows and people still don't see You even though

you stick out like a sore thumb. Yes So I mean

that's just part of like again with the suits

like that and even look at something like that

one infographic That Mike sent us The laughing

squid one where it's got like basically every

version ever and you look at some of the goofier

ones like the original Batman costume we had

like the lib the pointy ears and the purple gloves

and Then you have stuff like the Batman of Zoran

are Which is actually has its roots in like the

1950s Batman comics. So it's just Kind of like

how there's so many different versions. You could

do almost anything with this Batsuit, which I

kind of find fun. Yeah, I really do love how

they change it constantly. Yeah. Even when Dick

Grayson was Batman a couple of years ago, he

had his version with some very slight differences

because he was Batman for a while. About you

Mike, what did you what costumes do you like

the best? Well, I've always liked the animated

series versions pretty much every incarnation

but my favorite incarnation was probably the

the new Avengers new Avengers one which I know

you guys just said you didn't really care for

but I I've been a big fan of the black and gray

look for Batman for just about any kind of Any

any version any color scheme? I like the the

muted colors the most and I also like Frank Miller's

Batman like the year one and the Dark Knight

Returns costumes Especially the Dark Knight Returns

where he looks like a brick shithouse. Yeah.

Yeah, and I I I like I really like what Nolan

did with his Batman suits the fact that they

took a more practical approach with them And

there's no denying the look of Tim Burton's Batman

which kind of Set everything off in terms of

adding armor to the character and whatnot The

the costumes in the game I like I like the the

suits in In the Arkham games except the I was

just you know talk about it later But I was kind

of disappointed with the skins especially since

they didn't include the second skin from Arkham

Asylum in Arkham City, which just irritated me

to no end, because it was cooler than the actual

suit in the game. And you couldn't use it outside

of the stupid challenge rooms, which I thought

was stupid. Oh, you mean the ultimate armor.

Yeah, there's a lot more detail to it, and it

looked more Dark Knight -ish in its appearance,

and I was kind of hoping a New Game Plus option

in Arkham Asylum would let you use it, but...

You can't, and then I was hoping they'd put it

in Arkham City with all the other skins and they

didn't. It is what it is though. You can't really

go wrong with a Batman suit, but I've always

been... I think my other favorite is the Batman

suit. I really like the way he looked in that

series. Yeah, for me it's you know, I started

out with the with the 66 reruns in the 80s and

and also the The car the crazy crappy cartoons

in the 80s as well. I like that suit That's it

was cool. But once once 89 hit it was a game

changer. I mean, it's what gave us The BTS suits

I like the BTIS suit but unlike Steve who doesn't

like the new adventure suit I like the new adventure

suit because at that time of the the time the

DCAU of the revamps in 95 -97 when that was happening

he was doing crossovers with Superman the animated

series and you could not there is no way that

the original BTIS costume would have worked in

Metropolis. Metropolis is too bright of a city

in Superman the Animated Series, so you needed

that black and gray and that dark thing to make

Batman pop against the brightness. I love the

JLU suit. I think that out of all of the Bruce

Wayne stuff, that is my favorite is the JLU suit

out of the DCAU. And I like the Batman Beyond

suit. They finally realized superheroes should

never wear capes But the capes iconic Batman

thing no, I I know I was making an Incredibles

reference. I know you're referencing But but

but I mean and and and yes Joker even points

it out in return of the Joker the years too long

and I missed the cape but you know, it's one

of those things where Batman Beyond was something

completely new it was something where It wasn't

Bruce. It was somebody else. It was a teenage

Batman. It was to appeal to, at the time, the

kids of those years. I thoroughly enjoy Batman

Beyond. Even some of the worst episodes that

are in that series. I love that series. The only

thing I like about The Batman, the 2004, The

Batman, or as a certain other podcaster likes

to call it, The Crap Man, I like how his cape,

when he is just standing there, it just envelopes

his entire body from the waist down. Like when

he's just standing there, you don't see his feet,

wherein in some of the other incarnations, of

course you do. It gives him that old Dracula

vibe. Yeah. The No One Verse, uh... them and

begins it was okay it was cool it was a nice

to see an updated version of the eighty nine

almost an homage to the eighty nine suit between

dark night and during rises simply because of

this is very very small plot point nitpick i

heat that king suit because they said in the

dark night rises that uh... You know you'll be

more adapt to knife attacks And what the f***

happens at the end of the Dark Knight Rises she

f***ing stabs him Okay, so what's wrong with

that? I don't like how that suit functions if

if the suits gonna be smaller, and he's going

to be more More susceptible to Knife attacks

and someone's gonna stab him to the point where

he won't die, but he'll at least be incapacitated

I think that's just dumb Brave and the Bold I

don't care for at all. As far as comic suits,

I haven't read enough Batman comics. I'm probably

the one person here that has maybe only read

one Batman comic in my entire life. Overall,

it's the DCAU suits that I like overall. I mean,

everyone's got their own favorite. I mean, I

know you're not a huge fan of You know brave

in the bold Mike, but what did you think of like

kind of that? 1950s Dick sprang design they had

for Batman there It was all right, I liked one

kid when the the super Batman came in versus

I like the multicolors in that The Batman of

Zirin are yeah. Yeah, I like that one in that

I think the only reason why I like that is because

it's Kevin Conroy to hell with Dietrich Bader

is Batman Well, I think it was a nice that particular

suit. I did not watch that series at all to just

blatantly admit it. But that's because I didn't

necessarily agree with or like the direction

that the show was. However, when I heard that

Kevin Connery was going to be playing Batman

again in it, I wanted to see what it was all

about. And I saw the Zaranar Batman with Kevin

Connery playing him. And it was a nice mix between

the Zaranar Batman and the animated series Batman

in that show so it kind of gave it a nice nod

to the 90s show but it was still its own thing

and I like the dynamic between that and the Brave

and the Bold Batman and then the Lex Luthor -ish

villain. Rotule. Yes. What a tool he was. Rotule.

I just like saying that. No, I mean, again, like

I said, you know, it's just the costume of Batman

is something that is just as fluid as the character

in a lot of ways, because I mean, when you look

further out, at least in the comics and, you

know, the DC Elseworlds, which is basically their

version of Marvel's What If, I mean, they've

had stuff like, you know, Batman, like medieval

Batman, they've had, you know, the vampire Batman

by Kelly Jones, where he's like, his face drops,

his lower jaw drops like a foot and he's got

knives for teeth. One of my personal favorites

is when they did, back in the mid -90s when DC

was still putting out themed annuals every year,

they had Elseworlds annuals this one summer.

One of my favorites from the Detective Comics

one is this guy named Leatherwing, which is basically

Pirate Batman. Yar. And he sailed his ship and

his crew to the Bat's Cay, which was a hidden...

It basically looked like where the ship was in

Goonies. It was like this big hole in the cliff

side of somewhere in England, and no one could

ever find it. But it's just like, come on, Pirate

Batman, how awesome is that? Well, since we've

already kind of jumped into the comic somewhat,

I guess we can talk about our experiences with...

the Batman comics, and basically what some of

maybe your favorite plot lines are, story arcs,

just in general, your comic experience, whether

it be from, I know JT, you said you grew up on

the Silver Age. Yeah, what I could find, but

I grew up consistently. Between that and the

current run of the the new 52. What are you guys

currently reading or have you really enjoyed

in the past? Well for me, because this isn't

my forte as far as the comics go, I will say

when I was 9, 10, or 11, one of those three years,

I don't remember which one, my mom found a Batman

trade paperback at some weird five and dime mom

and pop operation and got it for me and I just

freaked me the hell out. I don't know. I couldn't

even tell you what storyline it was. I couldn't

even tell you what version of Batman it was in

a comic book. It was like a collected edition

of like four or five different stories and just

the art style just freaked me out so much as

a kid so I've barely read any Batman comics over

the years so you guys can take it. What about

you Mike and I mean ours yeah, I My familiarity

with the Batman comics is limited to the Jeff

Loeb Tim sale Batman Like long Halloween in that

long Halloween dark victory. I think I've read

haunted night But I Okay, this is gonna make

me sound really bad is Tim sale the artist cuz

I swear there it was Jim Lee no Tim sale is the

artist I'm like Lobe stuff the only stuff that

lobe did with Jim Lee was the hush storyline

Okay, all right, then I I like the I really like

the art in in the the lobe sale series I like

the character designs and in the and the dark

and gritty look of everything in there, but I

just I Don't know the story the stories were

good right up until like the last four pages,

and then it all just kind of fell apart and the

The panels didn't quite match up with what was

happening and when I'm talking trying to explain

how I feel about the endings to these these books

I kind of explain it like they were on their

way to the copy editor and a couple pages fell

out of the folder and Nobody picked them up off

the floor And I went to press missing some pages.

So I both books, you know, they're good Like

I said right up until the last four pages and

then I just don't They the the fact that they

don't end very well just kind of Puts a foul

taste on both books that I know that I've read

so I but like Mike I don't really have any experience

at Batman and comic books because like I said

earlier I can't stand reading DC stuff Which

is fair, I mean I'm both sides of the fence.

I like some Marvel. I like some DC You know if

it's a good story. It's a good story Like the

art and all that to be fair Marvel's just as

much of a headache right now is the DC stuff

is except for the ultimate stuff, but even that

got ruined so but Talk about that stuff later

some other time possibly. Yeah. Yeah, and what

do you what's some of your favorite Steve? No

for me I really liked and enjoyed the 92 animated

series comic line. Oh, The Adventures? Yes, The

Adventures. I collected those at the time. I

had Batman. I had The Dark Knight. I had Detective

Comics. I think those were the only three I had

running concurrently at the time in the early

90s. And I collected them for, I would say, a

good four or five years. and before I kind of

fell off the bandwagon of Batman and switched

gears, but I collected all through the Nightfall,

Night's End, and Night Quest sagas. There were

a bunch of miscellaneous plot lines in there

throughout the different comic lines. I really

enjoyed the animated series one because it followed

the Bruce Tim style to the T and there were a

lot of crossovers from you know whether it be

a wannabe Batman or Superman or you know just

characters like that in general and as the years

went on I quit collecting comics I went and had

to sell my whole collection as I mentioned before

because of money issues and then the last I'd

say the last four years I've started reading

the comics again, mostly when I heard that, oh,

they killed Batman. Yeah, they killed Batman.

I was like, you can't kill Batman. He's Batman,

you know? And so I started reading up on it,

reading some backlogs online and then read through

his return. And then I read where Dick Grayson

was Batman. And then, of course, I learned of

the, well, not only Bruce Wayne's return, but

then, you know, Damian Wayne. I'm like, who the

hell is this guy? And so it's been a pretty interesting

saga for me, to say the least, to jump back into

it after all that time. And especially to find

out, hey, there's a Tim Drake Robin in the comics

that's Red Robin. And I'm like, I've never heard

of this guy before. And the fact that I didn't

know Red Hood was, you know, the second Robin

that died. You know, I mean, stuff like that.

I didn't have any clue jumping back into it after,

you know, 10, 12 years. And now I've I've started

reading the the new 52. I actually started actively

seeking them out since they hit issue one on

through. And I've read the main Batman line by

Scott Snyder, which I have to say they brought

that in pretty strong. Yeah. And I really, I

really enjoy his storytelling. The Legend of

the Dark Knight. I like that series. I like the

drawing in it as well. I have gotten that one

sporadically, so I have no idea really what's

going on. I like the Batman ink concept. I'm

waiting to see how well that plays out and I

and I collect the detective comics and then of

course the Batman Beyond Unlimited which I find

That I enjoy just because it Continues Terry's

story in the future. You still have Bruce as

an old man. You got the Justice League And the

unlimited future timeline so it's kind of if

they're all kind of nice in their own, right?

So I've been really enjoying those I Of course

since the Dark Knight Rises film have Picked

up the Dark Knight returns, and I've also read

copies of No Man's Land Which both have their

you know footprint in that film But I really

enjoyed those I I understand why people put them

on such high pedestals for comic arcs, especially

when there's so many throwaway ones. To me, and

I've listed them all in a blog post separate

to this, but for me, those are, out of the old

ones, those and the Nightfall are all... Great

lines and I really I'm looking forward to see

what DC does in the future with more of the Batman

lines I kind of don't like the fact that I mean

Batman's kind of like Marvel's spider -man they

put him in I mean he really is because Well,

DC never had him make a deal with the devil,

though. It might be more Wolverine than Spider

-Man. Well, true, but Spider -Man's in Fantastic

Four. He's been, you know what I mean, he's been

all over. Basically, Batman and Spider -Man are

the most recognizable characters. Well, and so

is Wolverine, but I mean, I would much rather

see Batman in everything, but at the same time...

How the hell is Batman in all these different

organizations or all these different places?

It's all different worlds. Well true, but I mean

they're all different timelines and all this

different stuff, but I love the character, I

love the different lines, but if you're into

collecting anything with the bat in it, it gets

so difficult to want to spend money on it. It's

not so much difficult, you just look at the sheer

enormity of everything. Well, I mean, for instance,

you've got, like I mentioned before, the Batman

Inc, the Dark Knight, Detective Comics, Batman.

You've got all of his subsidiaries of the Batman

Inc, which are Batwoman, Batgirl, Batwing, Nightwing,

Red Robin, Batman and Robin, Justice League.

I hear Red Robin serves good burgers. Yeah, it's

good stuff. But no, there's so many different

areas that he just magically pops up. I mean...

Not that I disagree with Batman being the true

badass that he is, but it gets kind of hard to

follow. Especially when you're jumping between

the different lines to catch parts of a story

arc. Which to me is a pain in the ass. I do eventually

want... I'm sorry to cut you off. I do eventually

want to catch, you know... I want to catch all

the signature comics but as far as following

it all together, I just can't. I stick to the

cartoons and the movies for me. But what I am

really interested in going back and looking through

is that I'm more interested in Nightwing at this

point. I've had so much Batman exposure over

the years. I want to know more about Nightwing.

Well, and it turns out Nightwing is not such

a great guy after all and a couple different

plot lines. So which I'm coming to find out.

And that's kind of interesting to me, considering

he's the most well -rounded out of the wards

of Bruce Wayne. Yeah. But yeah, I would say that

overall I've really enjoyed my comic experience

and I don't see myself putting it down anytime

soon. Just from what I've been seeing so far.

So whoever's next can... I think that'd be me.

Yes, sir. But yeah, no I agree with a lot of

you is like like I said I grew up reading a lot

of the silver age stuff from like You know what

my dad left behind so I have a great love for

that But where I really got into reading Batman

was like I said through Batman and the Outsiders

and then I didn't collect it You know sporadically,

you know through on the years and like you said

I know the pain of having to sell my collection

you know to make ends meet and It's kind of like,

you know, if you've put as long as I have into

your thing. It's like, you know putting a newborn

up for adoption almost because like man I really

like all this stuff well it kills me because

the the nightfall saga the only way I can obtain

it is by paying ungodly amounts at a comic shop

for the individual comics or you could if you

want to spend them not if I want to spend pretty

much the same amount of money I can buy the trade

paperbacks well they're not yeah but I mean you

don't spend as much for the paperbacks I'd almost

suggest that because I mean a lot of stuff that

I had that I had to give up I get I've gone and

gotten the trades on but yeah, I mean through

the years. I just read Batman off and on I really

started collecting Batman basically from no man's

land there on out to when they reopened Gotham

and I still have I have most of the single issues

and I have all the trades for the Bruce Wayne

Murderer Bruce Wayne fugitive storyline where

basically this is a point that DC comics where

Lex Luthor is the friggin president and he hires

this guy named David Cain to like frame Bruce

Wayne for murder to like get back at him for

screwing him over on this deal and as luck would

have it David Cain is one of the many men who

taught Batman his skills so it's just became

did Bruce Wayne did he really kill this woman

did he not you know I love that storyline I love

a lot of the I love like yeah the nightfall night

quest and all that that series But when you talk

about that and you talk about Bane and Venom,

one of my all -time favorite storylines was this

one called, it was simply called Batman Venom,

which ran through like five issues of the original

Legends of the Dark Knight comic where Batman,

you know, he fails to save a young girl who was

being held for ransom by these criminals, so

he starts taking this experimental drug called

Venom. And then you see how it twists him and

he basically he locks himself in the bat cave

for a month with nothing but like the absolute

minimum vitamins he needs and water just like

basically sweat it out and The way it's illustrated

and you see the hell that he goes through to

deal with that Another one of my all -time favorite

Batman it's not specifically in a Batman comic

but it just the kind of the idea was put forth

in a Justice League storyline called Divided

We Fall which was written by Mark Waid who's

one of the my favorite writers in comics and

this was during like the run this is the series

that Grant Morrison had initially created where

Batman or no Superman makes this wish that you

know they're he's talking with Batman about you

know double identities and he says sometimes

I wish we didn't have those The next thing you

know when they're gonna have this big reveal

because up until this point the Justice League

doesn't know who everyone is under the mask So

they have this big reveal in the Batcave and

also the Batmobile rolls in well Bruce Wayne's

over by the computer who the hell is in the Batman

costume and at one point that the mask gets wrist

off and he's a blank and it just obscures that

line like who is the mask Bruce Wayne or Batman

and From there, I mean, I'm I've read everything

up to and including, you know, the death of Bruce

Wayne, Dick Grayson as Batman. I still have a

lot of that stuff. I like that when Grant Morrison

was writing Batman, he was setting up, you know,

rest in peace with some really brilliant stuff,

because he takes stuff like the International

Club of Heroes, which was this Silver Age DC

concept where there was this guy like, you know,

El Papayago or the Knight, the Legionnaires,

basically these guys who have this similar schtick

to Batman in all these other countries. and he

recreates this is like this kind of something

that actually happened and it all fell apart

and then they're the original guy that brought

them all together is trying to kill them all

now which led into you know batman being basically

hounded by this group called the black hand which

are basically these ultra rich billionaires who

like bet on you know human misery And it's really

complicated to explain so you I would recommend

reading the black hand stuff if you can get a

hand a handle on it Steve and I have read so

a lot of them basically just the Batman title

of the new 52 I haven't really read like, you

know legend or detective comics Just because

I've got my own grape with the new 52. Well,

I can see a grape with it to some extent However,

I do find that it is very entertaining I'm not

just saying that because I got the trade of the

Batman line. I was collecting them far before

that. My thing with the new 52 is they go for

a company wide reboot and everything is going

to be fresh and they do that for everybody except

for Green Lantern and Batman because they've

spent five years writing all these insanely detailed

stories and apparently they would lose their

investment if they ... You know kick those stories

to the curb. So no, I mean a lot of the new 52

stuff I've loved and The whole storyline the

quarter vowels where you find out that as much

as Batman has tried to save Gotham from crime

He hasn't done that much because there's like

this Freemason like secret society that's been

pulling the strings since like the 1800s and

Jonah hex was riding through the streets So I

mean that storyline was great Yeah, I really

did like that that It flipped his world upside

down. Oh, yeah. I mean they have this one issue

where he's basically been put through like this

Maze where he just keeps going around in circles

and circles and you just see him slipping further

and farther into madness until he finally Figures

it out and the whole time he's been playing the

court of owls to figure out how to get out of

here So I mean overall I really like I said,

my main love is the silver age I just that's

what I grew up on and I love that stuff. I mean

80s and 90s was fun and the new 52 is good so

we'll see what happens in the future. Yeah and

anybody else have any more thoughts on the comics?

Nope. Okay. What are you guys generalized thoughts

anyway on the live -action TV exposures of Batman

from like the 66 series and Like his basically

the the outstretched arm of Batman into like

the Birds of Prey or just That kind of 66 series

even though it was campy as hell It was all we

had in the 80s for for live -action Batman You

know Adam West will forever be known as as you

know that Batman Burt Ward will be known as that

Robin as always and that show had a lot of great

things to it and I think it is a shame that between

Warner Brothers and whether it's Bill Fingers

family or Bob Kane's family or whoever this whole

rights distribution thing is between as far as

that dispute I think it's a shame that that series

cannot be released to digital media and DVD because

Right now the only place you can watch these

syndicated reruns is on the hub and you know

depending on You know your cable package. You

may not get the hub like me And me or you might

be an internet criminal Well, I mean I would

know anything about living Canada, so you know,

okay, you know what that is a gross overgeneralization

I'll thank you not to bring it up again Mike.

Well, the thing is is a series like this or any

of the related stuff. If a company would just

release the stuff, people would buy it. Yeah.

And I don't think with Batman 66 going to DVD

and digital mediums, I don't think it's a problem

of, oh, there's no fanfare for it or there's

no fan following for it. That's freaking bullshit.

It just is. The problem with the 66 rights is

that The left hand has part of it and the right

hand has the other part of it And they don't

know what the hell each other is doing That's

that's that's the problem with getting the show

on DVD the show itself was at the time amazing

Caesar Romero Joker is just just great Burgess

Meredith as the penguin for the longest time

Burgess Meredith penguin was and probably still

is at least in live -action the best penguin

we've ever had Mean everybody remembers that

laugh of his It's better when he does it As far

as Birds of Prey Birds of Prey gets the short

end of the stick really I watched that for one

reason Oh Birds of Prey to me I love that series

I think it's great the fact that Batman is in

the background, but they're more so focusing

on the women that have been in his life. And

that was the first time that I had learned of

what had happened to Barbara Gordon as far as

not being Batgirl and being Oracle. I like the

series. I think it was very short -lived. I don't

think it's as bad as everyone believes it to

be. I mean, it is a... WB series after all and

as we all know the WB and slash CW They do have

some pretty bad series, but since it was Batman

centric III thoroughly enjoyed it I really enjoyed

seeing and a lot of people might not get this

I you guys might since we all I assume we all

love Ferris Bueller here. Yes Harleen Quinzel

in Birds of Prey Was me Sarah slow was in Ferris

Bueller. I love the way she said Mr. J. Yeah.

Birds of Prey is OK. It was a unique look at

a part of the Batman mythos. I liked it for seeing

Laurie Laughlin. I mean, you know, Becky Donaldson

from Full House in Leather. I mean, that's...

I've not actually seen that. Oh, man, I know

I'm missing out. I'm gonna have to check it out

now, but yeah, yeah No, I mean, it's a prayer.

Like I said, I I was like, hey, it's Dina Meyer

I'm gonna watch this for a few minutes and I

watched like I think three or four episodes I

Just it's not that I'm like such a purist when

it comes to characters, but Catwoman was not

a goddamn meta human or superhuman You know,

she didn't have any mutant powers. There's no

way in hell their daughter should have been like

this half cat person Well, and then she was kind

of a metahuman Well, yeah, but they say I remember

one episode they see specifically that she was

like half like half superhuman because of her

mother and apparently Catwoman in addition to

being a thief was had superpowers of some sort

and I think that was just the storyline plot

for that series simply because they had to grab

the... At that time in... Because at the time

it was the WB. At that time in the WB's history,

Angel was on air, Buffy was on air, and they

had all these really wicked cool vampire stunts

and everything else. And I think that was the

thing with making that part of the storyline

as far as her being superhuman. Well, yeah. I

don't think it takes away from, you know... Sorry

about Hugo. Well people insert plot lines or

insert their own takes on everything so It can

definitely be explained away Yeah, I mean they

can't it's just I just don't care for it. I mean

I like I said I watched two or three episodes

and I was like You know what that black dude

that plays the detective wherever I see oh, yeah

used to be on a daytime soap Isn't he on criminal

minds? You know more more. Yeah. No, I love them

and it's Yeah, I like I have nothing but love

for The 66 series. I mean that's where when it

comes to like live -action TV. That's where all

my Batman love goes I mean, I own both I own

two different copies of the movie I own like

the special edition in the regular edition that

came out I've even got that the return to the

Batcave like anniversary TV movie. They did a

few years ago where they got like You know Adam

Weston Burt Ward someone steals the classic Batmobile.

Oh, that was great Yeah, and then they run into

the original riddler in Catwoman. Yeah the villains

of the piece and I love how they have You know,

they do the flashbacks of what went on will making

the series and you have Was it mark Jason Marsden,

you know playing the young Burt Ward and Yeah,

I can't remember the name of the guy that played,

you know the young Adam Westbury he drops that

there are curious stirrings in my utility belt.

I was like, yes No, I mean I love the 66 series

so much I mean I wanted that car I looked my

dad I want that to be my first car I Wanted that

Batmobile. My dad just kind of looked at me.

He's like that's my blood My dad loved me, but

he didn't support me but no i mean i love like

and you know they had all the guest villains

they had like you know vincent price's egghead

in like two episodes and that's another thing

about the show if no one knew it's it was basically

for the vast majority of the episode run the

episodes made One episode would end in a cliffhanger

then they would resolve it, you know next episode

because it aired two nights a week, right? Yeah

there What did Ralph Garman say on fat man on

Batman? I think it was Tuesday It was either

Tuesday and Wednesday or Wednesday and Thursday

night back to back. I mean you had all those

great like My favorite villain on there aside

Caesar Romero goes without saying because that

that is my all -time favorite version of the

Joker I mean, there's Mark Howells, which is

great. There's Jack Nicholson. I'm sorry, Caesar's

my boy. They had the classics like Mr. Freeze.

I guess they had this guy, False Face, who was

like a master of disguise. He was basically two

-faced, but only because they couldn't get away

with doing the half -faced thing. Yeah, and then

you imagine what sort of... Victims rights group

would have sprang up and like picketed at that

show or something And then you talked about the

villains like okay Frank Gorshin as the riddler

was great But do you know who played the second

riddler on the show? No Gomez Adams. Oh My god,

Ralph Julia. Oh that was for the end wasn't it?

Yeah, that was in that was in Season three. Yeah

He did, like, the two -parter ends. Didn't even,

because he was still doing Adam's Family at the

time. You know, he didn't get rid of the mustache,

so it was just kind of a trip seeing Gomez Adams

prancing around with the green and purple. Yeah,

I forgot that he actually did that. Yeah. I've

seen so little of Season 3 that I didn't realize

it, but yeah, that's strange. I mean, Season

3 came after... Because I think the movie did

that happen between seasons 1 & 2 or 2 & 3? I

think it was 1 & 2 because Catwoman changed too.

Yeah. Well, my favorite Catwoman was Julie Newmar.

I mean, Lee Merriwether was, you know, smoking

and Eartha Kitt scared the crap out of me. Yeah,

I agree. It's like, woman, do not pull your hair

back like that. You're stretching the skin. You

know, it's like I see that. Not too long ago.

I caught it just randomly on I was a TV land

here in Canada and I was like my god She looks

like what's his name in men in black? It's just

like dude. No Edgar yeah, but Vince The I can't

remember the actress name right now Yeah, no,

I mean and these are the only two live -action

TVs I mean they had if you look on the wiki or

in the script here they had like the The legends

of the superheroes TV movie and roast of the

superheroes TV movie in the 1970s I don't know

if you guys have ever seen those because I haven't

I've read I haven't seen those I mean really

honestly 66 and Birds of Prey are really the

only two that that anyone would really know Yeah,

but like have you ever seen me Steve? No, yeah,

I don't think anyone has and It's probably from

the look when you look at the the link you had

in the you know the script here Just looking

at the quality of it looks like that Awful Justice

League pilot that they made in the mid 90s The

chills the chills What about you Mike? What did

you what are your experiences with 66 and Birds

of Prey? Well, let's see 66 is just when I was

a kid haven't seen anything from it outside of

what I can just recall from memory in like the

last decade Birds of Prey is probably the last

live -action thing I tried to watch At the time

I was in college and I was trying to download

it off of a There was Kazaa at the time I don't

remember how many episodes it was, but I only

saw three or four I didn't not like what I saw.

I think I stopped watching it because I found

out it got cancelled So I was like, I'm not gonna

download the rest of it Yeah, well, I mean didn't

get cancelled till they finished the season which

I'm amazed they got that long Was it 12 episodes

or was it a full full? I think it was real short

-lived. I thought I think it was only 12 or 13

episodes and I don't think it was a full order,

which is why I was just like ah Plus plus at

the time getting anything off because I was like

a chore So you had to really dig at it at the

time. Yeah, so I mean I haven't gone back to

revisit it since I found other means but I didn't

not not Didn't not like it. Yeah, so What about

the 66 series I Just remember back shark repellent.

I was in the movies. Yes I actually remember

more about the movie than I do about the the

show in general because the movie was that much

more epic Yeah, that noble creature sacrificed

its lives to save us, Robin. You know what you

did is you sprayed it with repellent and it died.

No, I was talking about where the dolphins swam

in the path of that one torpedo when they were

magnetized to the buoy. I love how the fact that

he pulls out all this stuff, it's basically half

the size of his head, his bat radio. He just

nonchalantly pulls it out from behind his cape.

He pulls it out of subspace. Yeah, or the the

bad bulletproof shield that you know Robin My

favorite was the Batcopter. Oh god. Yeah, I was

cool. I wanted the Batboat Because I just thought

it looked badass As do most Batman things. I

still want the Batmobile Okay, speaking of the

Batmobile of All the versions that there have

been in Batman's history. Like what's some of

your guys favorites? I love the 66 for that era

of Batman. I thought when 89 came out it was

just an amazing version. I liked how in the Hannah

Barbera Batman cartoons in the 80s that they

essentially attempted to animate the 66 version

but instead of black and red it was blue and

yellow. Yeah, then they kind of gave him like

that Ferrari looking one for a while there. Yeah,

that one was a little strange. A lot of people

give a lot of shit to the ones that happened

in Forever and Batman and Robin. I really liked

them. I thought they were cool. They were cool

looking for each of those movie designs. They

were cool looking, but not practical. Definitely

toys. Well, yeah. But for those that watched

that Batmobile special, or at least the part

that was on TV until the Dark Knight Rises comes

to Blu -ray, they explained about the whole mechanics

behind that and all the other Batmobiles over

the years. I personally did not care for those

film ones. The only on -screen Batmobiles I like

are the 89, before they destroyed it in Returns,

and the Tumblr. And then of course the 66 Batmobile.

But once you go animated, the only one I like

is the first animated series one. Yeah, I don't

like it once it hits new adventures or any of

the other stuff and then when you the other batmobile

I like is from the Arkham Asylum game I didn't

like that one Though as far as my favorite batmobiles

like I think my all -time favorite just for the

the cheese factor is The one from the 30s and

40s with like that single shark fin that wing

on the top and the big Bat head that's mounted

on the front end I just, I love the look of that.

Hold the bile down, Mike, because I'm not finished,

okay? Just suck it back, man. No, okay, I love

the Tumblr, mainly for the way Morgan Freeman

delivers that line. Oh, the Tumblr? You wouldn't

like that. Everyone in the theater was yelling,

yes, we would. So the Tumblr was cool. As far

as on screen like in the movies There was that

ribbed one in Batman forever that I was like

it was okay until you see Robin joyriding in

the thin splits and I don't know how that helps

The 89 Batman that that is probably my favorite

one out of like the light like the movies Yeah,

cuz it was like this, you know new age looking

kind of roadster Sort of look like that, you

know with the lines and all that it just looked

impressive without the machine guns popping out

or anything Of course the 66 Batman was awesome

You can't really pin I couldn't really pin a

favorite Batmobile out of the comic books because

they change so much Yeah, like I don't like any

of them The only one honestly the only one in

the comic books that I really did like Was it

wasn't even a batmobile it was during like, you

know the the nightfall era where Jean Paul Valley

there's basically a bat subway rocket Where you

find out there's this abandoned spur of the subway

rail lines that happen to be Really came close

to the Batcave. So Batman builds basically a

subway rocket that has him zippy zips through

the rail lines to wherever he needs to during

this time which I thought was just kind of cool

and badass because Who wouldn't want to be he'll

flying down the rails on a rocket like that?

Granted I was 12 and 13 at the time. So who knows?

One other is when you get into animated Batmobiles

the Batmobile that was in the Batman the first

version thought was really cool because you know

it's a young Batman he's just starting out it's

got this kind of fast and furious flavor to it

where it's basically it's a rice rocket more

or less now that's a ten second car that's what

she said So I'd like the look of that, you know,

cuz it looks like you know a furry It's got like

the five turbo jets in the back, you know, it

looked badass I didn't like this where they brought

in like the movie version in the last couple

seasons of that series because Not that it didn't

look bad or that it didn't look good I should

say it's just there's no way he can turn that

thing like a normal car like he'd be turning

it like a friggin semi truck just from the way

like how big that thing was and To come back

to Brave and the Bold, I love the way they took

all these different concepts of the Batmobile.

They even brought in the giant bat face on the

front in one episode. But I love the classic

one because it's got the colors of the classic

1966 Batmobile. It's got all the lines and everything,

and it turns into a bat suit for Batman. Mean

that one episode where he's fighting babyface

and he hits a switch and all of a sudden you

got a bat gunned him Yeah Really quick I didn't

mention my my animated ones. I love the btas

one and The back wing and the batmobile both

the batmobile specifically it just As the DCAU

continued on it just it updated a little too

much to my liking because as you guys have already

said I you know, we loved the 89 version and

And all that stuff and it just I don't know Vehicles

in the DCAU after after BTIS just get a little

wonky for me. Yeah, what about you Mike? Well,

I've liked Think if you don't like the 66 batmobile,

there's something wrong with you. Yes So I have

to say I like that well, it's not my favorite

I I appreciated Tim Burton's first take on the

batmobile. I didn't like even though Cosmetically,

they're identical in From Batman to Batman returns.

I didn't like the batmobile and Batman returns.

I found the whole the whole thing to be too gimmicky

and it didn't make sense in a real world environment

anymore. Yeah, because it split apart. Well,

not only that, but the giant piston. Well, the

giant piston in the bottom so it could turn around

in one spot. It's just stuff like that, maybe

not like that Batman. That Batman. If you want

to argue with that, you still get the motorcycle

that pops out of the tumbler and then the fact

that it can flip over or do the sideways roll

thing. Yeah, well, we all know I have a problem

with the Batpod. But I do have a problem with

it being... I don't really have a problem with

it being an extension of the Tumblr, outside

of the fact that it was never mentioned as an

extension of the Tumblr. It just kind of shows

up as an extension. I just kind of chalk it up

to Batman is going to have a backup plan no matter

what. Well, that's fine, but... When I say they

could have done something where they could have

shown it on the blueprints that the accountant

brings Lucius Fox, if they'd shown up on that,

they didn't have to mention it directly, but

if they'd just shown up on that as this becomes

this, fine, awesome, by Hookline and Sinker.

But that said, my favorite is probably the Tumblr

outside of the Batmobile that actually shows

up in Dark Knight Returns and the Frank Miller

where it's the giant tank. I just think that's

cool. And there were a lot of people when I first,

when the pictures first went up on for the Tumblr,

a lot of my friends were like, that's not the

Batmobile, that's ridiculous. And then I had

to remind them all that Batman actually drove

a tank in the comics. And then slowly but surely

everyone kind of came around to it being more

practical for him to use a vehicle like that

rather than a sports car. I've always... I've

always liked the animated versions too. I haven't

really cared for any of the flying, like I didn't

really care for the Batwing. Although I did like,

was the Batwing always trying to remember if

it was always sharp in the animated series, if

that was updated for Justice League? No, it was

up for Justice League. In Batman the animated

series, it was exactly like... the movie. It

was an animated version of 89's Batwing. Okay,

yeah. See, I didn't really buy the Batwing as

the bat symbol. It's a nice little nod. I mean,

it's... Well, okay, it's a nice little nod. I'm

just saying what we like, what we didn't like

about him. I appreciated the more angular look.

UFO look of the Justice League that way so Yes

Just the one thing I can say about the one in

Batman returns is like I can Handle Batman having

some sort of giant piston like that because you

look at the Batcave. It's not like he's got a

huge jack somewhere what I didn't get about that

scene is like really the Killer clowns just gonna

stand there and wait for the Batmobile to turn

around like have you not seen the 10 -foot flame

that shoots out of the ass of this vehicle? Well,

but you know what I can buy him having a carousel

which he does have in the Batcave to turn the

car around So I don't understand why he would

build his turnaround thing in the car And I didn't

buy that the two of it. Sorry the Schumacher

ones I didn't care for especially when they went

driving up a wall I would buy that over the rolling

disco ball that Clooney had in Batman and Robin.

I'd also buy that over the piston Yeah, then

it returns but I was like you can't have a separate

garage off to the side know the the cycle the

Robin cycles got to come out from Underneath

the Batmobile. I was like really Really? I don't

remember those movies that well I Commit everything

to memory more or less, so It's a curse So anybody

else got anything on the batmobiles while we're

on that subject in the bat wings I want one Yeah,

I think everybody wants one. Yeah, although and

Steve sent me a link here And you guys can probably

see it in the Skype window there. They have this

great It's like a double page spread from the

hush storyline where you know Batman and Nightwing

are going off to fight crime, and you see this

basically huge hanger. And if you look carefully

at some of the images, you can see like the Batman

Forever Batmobile, the 1960s, the animated, stuff

like that. And I think that's just a great little

nod that Jim Lee gave, because as much as Jeff

Loeb wrote the story, I don't think he had, he

probably wrote a scene in Hanger full of batmobiles,

but you probably didn't list like which batmobiles

to put in there Would it be safe to say that

batmobiles are like Tony Stark's armor? Pretty

much they change depending on the what they need.

Yeah. Yeah, I can agree with that so With that

we're gonna take a quick break And then we'll

be back with the featured film section You should

There's so much a man can tell you, so much he

can say You remain my power, my pleasure, my

pain, baby You're not to me, you're not a grown

addiction that I can't allow Won't you tell me

he's a healthy bed But did you know that when

it snows, my eyes become But you shine, can't

be seen There is so much a man can tell you,

so much he can say. You remain my power, my pleasure,

my pain. To me you're like a grown addiction

that I can't deny. Now won't you tell me is that

healthy, babe? But did you know that when it

snows my eyes become larger and the light that

you shine can't be And we're back with our all

things Batman discussion. And getting into the

films, as there have been quite a few of them,

if you count the serials from the 40s on up,

where did your exposure or first Batman film

visit start and basically what is your likes

and dislikes out of the many Bat films? I guess

I'll go because the serials I knew about but

obviously... I've never seen those. For me, as

I've said before in this episode, when I started

getting into, when I found out about Batman was

the 66th movie and the television series and

all that, so anything before that, I knew nothing

about. The 66 movie was great. It was essentially,

and I don't say this to be disrespectful to it,

it was essentially a long episode of the series.

I thought it was really, really good. The 89

movie is really where it started it all for me

and just absolutely loved it because from going

from seeing Cesar Romero as the Joker to Mr.

Cuckoo's Nest Nicholson as the Joker, it was

like... Oh my god, they're not fooling around

here. Uh, Batman Returns, the only good thing

for me about that, the only two good things about

me, for me about that movie is uh, uh, The Duckmobile

and Michelle Pfeiffer in that cat suit. Other

than that, I don't like that movie at all. The

Duckmobile. That's right, The Duckmobile. Shut

up. It's a giant rubber ducky. Squeak squeak.

Love riding around in that or the rubber ducky.

Well, it is pocket -sized I'm sorry Batman forever.

I enjoyed it for what it was. I Like it more

for me. Here's how the original four films rank.

It's 89 forever Returns and then Batman and Robin

Batman and Robin is the worst one. I did like

Forever. I was kind of iffy on Carrie's performance

of Riddler because at the time of that movie,

it was, you know, Ace, Fire Marshal, Bill, whatever

character. He put his comedy... aspect on every

single character, it's the same damn character.

It's the same damn person. It is very rarely

different. The only difference between Edward

Nigma Riddler in Batman Forever and Ace Ventura

is that he's just slightly more creepy. Well

there is that, but let's put it, that was basically

the mask without the green makeup. Pretty much,

yeah. Batman and Robin, there's only... Two scenes

or two things. I like one scene and one thing.

I like about the movie is Alicia Silverstone

is bad girl That's just amazing. She's hot as

hell the only scene. I like in that movie really

is the sky surfing scene I thought that was pretty

cool in the very beginning Power Rangers That's

right. Yes I know nothing about the TV movie

return to the Batcave. I'll probably have to

seek that out It's so worth it. Okay. Well, I'll

have to seek that out 2004 can we have Michelle

Pfeiffer back, please I mean for for Christ's

sake I do not consider Catwoman to be in the

Batman mythos of Of the franchise of films here

because like Teen Titans. It's out of continuity.

That's right Technically it's in because she's

resurrected the same way Selena Kyle was Yeah,

but they do so much stupid crap in that movie,

and that movie was just dumb. As I said in the

Dark Knight Rises episode of MWIRE, I like Batman

Begins, but I like it for the second half of

the movie. I understand they had to set up You

know, Bruce's going away and all that stuff and

I get that, but I liked it better when Christian

Bale was in the suit. So I prefer the second

half of Batman Begins. If I want to watch Bruce's

origin story, I watch Mask of the Phantasm. The

Dark Knight is easily the best out of the Nolan

films. It's a very tight movie. The plot is well

thought out, well written. The action scenes

are all well good. You know you go through you

know three jokers in live -action you go from

Cesar Romero to Jack Nicholson to Heath Ledger

It's like oh my god factor goes up every time

it does I'm well Cesar Romero not really because

yeah the funny ha ha goofy joker, but Nicholson

just took it so dark and For what Batman 89 was

and then Ledger just I mean He essentially gave

the city a blackout because of how dark he took

that that portrayal of Joker and I think honestly

I have to say out of live -action Heath Ledger's

is my favorite as far as the overall darkness

and seriousness to that role the one thing that

Tim Burton got wrong is Name, you know, well

two things First of all naming the joker saying

his name and instead of saying an alias or whatever

he's going by this they flat out said his name

is jack napier they created this jack napier

character or whatever and the other part was

that he killed batman's parents that which obviously

is not true um you know and i i understand at

the time 89 they had to make that you know so

peace so the modern everyday movie goer would

actually get it that hadn't read a comic book.

But with Heath's performance, it was just so,

so awesome. Absolutely awesome. And Dark Knight

Rises, I view that film as an end to Nolan's

trilogy, as an ending to the legend. I do not

view Dark Knight Rises as an individual overall

film. I view it within the continuity of the

Nolan verse. if that was the only film Nolan

ever made as it stands with the plot in it, I

don't think it would have worked. But no, those

are my thoughts on the films. What about you,

Mike? Well, like I said, I remember more about

the 66 Batman movie. It was obviously camp all

the way through from the back. Bat shark repellent

to the powderization of the entire UN So don't

really have too much to say about that one the

89 Batman I remember seeing that in a drive -in

I was like really just I was too young to actually

like Understand most of what was happening in

that movie when I saw it It's one of those movies,

when I watch it later, I'm actually able to understand

what some people are actually talking about.

And it's not at all what I thought they were

talking about when I was a kid. So, Returns...

When I saw Returns and I saw Forever and Batman

and Robin, I didn't really... I have an issue

with at the time when I was a kid. I didn't have

an issue with the before Batman movies I definitely

noticed the tonal shift from the first two to

the to the last two But I wasn't I was like Okay

with it, you know, it was it was cool to see

new bat suits I When everyone started making

a big deal about the proper nipples, which I

didn't really They didn't bother me When I watch

the movie, but you know everyone starts making

a big deal about it. So it kind of becomes a

big deal So slowly my opinion of them kind of

just started changing to Being what everybody

else's are And then I actually saw a few years

ago. I saw an interesting cut of Batman and Robin

I've been looking for it to see if I can find

it. It's called Batman and Robin deacified someone

took the movie and cut it down to 45 minutes

and He removed all the stuff with Batgirl He

removed all the stuff with Bane all the stuff

all the bat gadgets like the bat credit card

the Ice skates and the shoes he removed all that

stuff from the movie and it played so much better

Hence the deastified subtitle But really for

me I I like Nolan stuff. My first experience

with a Nolan film was actually Batman Begins

and then I went back through and watched the

two movies he had made before that and I've seen

everything that he's done since. I actually appreciated

the breathing room that he gave in Batman Begins.

Like it's an hour before you see Batman in the

suit at all. I got it. I pretty much agree with

what you said Mike about about the stuff except

I actually like Dark Knight Rises probably more

than Dark Knight And I I guess I guess I'm kind

of I guess I'm just a little confused But yeah,

I don't want to start a debate or anything just

a little Give your opinion on it. That's fine.

That's not I'm just no I'm just I'm just curious

how like cuz it's set up as a trilogy. So I'm

kind of like I'm just But when you were talking

about, you know, saying as an individual film,

you're saying you're saying I took Batman. I

took Dark Knight Rises as a as an ending. I don't

understand why it's a it's a trilogy. So I don't

know why you wouldn't take it as an ending to

begin with. But I guess just some of the podcasts

that I've I listened to the latest episode of

Kevin Smith's Fat Man on Batman and Ralph Garman,

who is a who also does Hollywood Babylon with

Kevin. He is like one of the biggest Batman fans

ever You know, I mean he you know, he actually

grew up watching the 66 show and everything else

And he was saying, you know, this is you know,

oh this whole Robin line thing that that's not

what it should have been that you know It's just

things that were point. It's kind of like you

with the bat nipples It things are being pointed

out to me where it's like yeah on a On an individual

level, Dark Knight Rises isn't that great, but

as an ending to his trilogy, it's awesome. I

like Dark Knight Rises the best of the three.

That's just my opinion. Especially as a direct

follow -up to Batman Begins, because there's

not a whole lot that has to do with Dark Knight

in it. Not too much. Don't know they're they've

always been they've always been pretty good I

mean obviously you can tell which ones were made

to sell toys and which one But just aesthetically

I've I've I've enjoyed the the last three the

most so JT oh I actually have seen half of I

think it was the first serial So I found like

the first 10 chapters on a VHS tape back in the

day. I loved the 66 movie when I actually finally

got to see that as a kid and it's like, oh, it's

like, you know, the bat shark repellent. Greatest

gag ever, gotta say. And I love the fact one

thing I learned when I was doing research for

this recording The film like it was made, you

know because of the popularity series, but it

was also made to like market the show in other

countries Because that's kind of how they would

that's why it's so much like episode like two

or three episodes of the show And again, there's

everything I said about the series applies to

the movie when you get into like the Burton films

now I love the fact Love like 89 is my all -time

favorite Batman film for a lot of reasons. I

mean The superior product is the Nolan verse

films don't get me wrong But as far as personal

preference goes to 89 one and and one of the

things I let you got to remember Burton did a

great job with that movie and bringing that kind

of dark deco Sort of thing which was in you know,

somewhat trend not copied but homaged in the

Batman TAS You gotta remember, this is like his

third film that he's ever done at this point,

like third big Hollywood film, because before

this it was Beetlejuice and Pee -wee's Big Adventure.

And he had this probably way bigger budget than

he ever had before, and he really worked with

what he had. And again, the casting of Nicholson,

when you watch the movie, you can agree or disagree.

Like 45 % Batman and 55 % Joker because there's

a lot more Joker in that movie than a lot of

people Maybe consciously realize yeah, and No,

I like I love that It's not perfect by any means.

I mean Batman's got the Joker dead in his sights

with the batwing Missiles machine guns and you

still can't kill him and he pulls a novelty gun

out of his pants which is probably loaded with

an explosive shell and that's why the one shot

took him down but really that's the best you

can do millions of dollars in technology like

missiles and Gatling guns and you can't kill

one man yeah well I guess it's the size of the

gun versus the size of the feet that measure

the Joker Okay, and Like you know like the nostalgic

critics said news review fucking Bob, but I love

Bob Come on. Oh, you mean the nostalgia critic

actually liked something when he reviews shit

Yes, sorry, but yeah, no like the you know the

Joker's hinge Yeah What's funny about Bob is

that movie so He got an action figure with kicking

action. I had a chance. I had a chance to buy

that figure like two or three weeks ago and you

know box no, I I at the geek sale that I went

to they had a The guy next to me that set up

had it sealed in the box The 89 Batman action

figure which I bought for Steve He had Bob and

he had Joker. He was selling them each for five

dollars a piece I just snagged the Joker, or

I snagged Batman for Steve, but I just left Joker

and Bob in the box. That was the color change

Joker, right? No, the squirting. The one where

you hook up the squirt pact was the hole in his

back. He had the top hat. Well, the funny thing

about Bob is that he's played by Tracy Walter,

who at the time of 1989 Batman, I didn't realize

it, but after seeing... Tracy Walters in in Nash

Bridges as angel and then that's right as the

professor in how high But yeah Bob is a man Bob

is great yeah, no, I love that movie there's

like certain quirks of logic that you don't quite

get like Where did Bruce Wayne disappear to after

he gets shot by the Joker? And how did he know

exactly where to put that? metal serving trays

so he wouldn't get gutted like a fish. How did

the, if the helicopter was coming for Joker at

the end, how did the thugs get up there? If the

helicopter, you know, it's just flights and logic.

Batman Returns, I remember we didn't see that

probably until, I didn't see that probably until

almost a year after it first came out because

it came out in like the winter or something,

didn't it? It was summer. Summer okay, I'm pretty

sure was a song too. Yeah, okay. I just wrote

cuz Okay, I'm misremembering that but I didn't

see that until like Halloween that year my dad

rented that and Honestly, the first time I saw

it it kind of freaked me out like that cuz Burton

went full -on goth in that movie like as With

the dark elements in the first one. It's very

much more of kind of like, you know kind of a

gangster sort of aesthetic but you look at some

of this like he went he went digging around in

his own brain for some of the imagery in Batman

Returns and Hooked up with Pee Wee Herman again

to play the Penguins dad, which I found out in

doing research. I never noticed that before But

no, I mean that's what happens when you you look

into things more closely Yeah, June 19th 92.

So yeah day come on this. Yeah, but you know,

I like that one I thought it was kind of cute,

you know, the brain -pan pagans with the Chinese

missile rockets strapped to their backs. You

know, there's something enchanting about that,

I think. Yeah, the whole turntable on the Batmobile,

dumb, the bat ski boat that he travels through

the sewers with, equally dumb. I mean, honestly,

the only vehicle that was cool in that movie

was the Duckmobile. It's a giant rubber duck.

How can you not love it? Moving on, I love Batman

forever. I will fight a man to the death who

says otherwise. Say what you will about Schumacher

and his proclivities. He took the aesthetic from

the Burton films and married it with the camp

of the 1966 movies very well in that first one.

Kind of overreach his hand in Batman and Robin,

but no, I love you know, Val Kilmer is Batman.

I loved his Bruce Wayne more You know Tommy Lee

Jones If he had played him It never mind the

design how they did signed him in that movie

the costume which looked ridiculous in my opinion

if He had played it a little more subdued still

play it manic, but not nearly as Joker ish You

know, if he had less Nicholson, basically. Yeah.

You know, and Jim Carrey, like I said, he's basically

playing the mask as the Riddler, although I did

like his Nigma when he was just... Nigma was

a lot creepier, I thought. Yeah, he played that

role really well. You know, like, still like,

absolutely that shit insane, but not nearly as

over -the -top as his Riddler and... everything

like especially at the end where he's like absorbing

all this brain energy and all some boomer I was

like really that was an epic fail yeah if you

if you had like strangled out like a you lose

or something that would have made more sense

but just boomers like no no and god damn she

was hot chase oh where she comes out it's like

Commissioner Gordon. No, I activate the signal.

She just comes out and it's like babooms. Yeah

Extremely low -cut black. Yeah, I Was like oh

god. I wish I still had that poster Yeah, any

who? Oh, wow. I'm coming back from the dark now.

No, I love records. Yeah, no the What came next

is a tragedy and sin against all the rules of

God and man Even though again referencing the

nostalgic critic did give rise to one of his

best videos in my opinion With the whole outrage

at the bat credit card I love you know the fact

is some of the the incidental casting in that

movie like John Glover as dr. Jason Woodrow that

was kind of cool Yeah Uma Thurman was okay I

don't see her as I didn't really see her as poison

ivy, but She worked with what she had and I agree

with Mike Alicia Silverstone is still a hot piece

in this movie Wow It's about the only time she's

been actually desirable by people before or after

Wow I like I like Lewis. Yeah, but she disappeared

since both of those films That's and that's pretty

much what everybody knows her from. Yeah, she's

not she doesn't look that bad in Supergator either

I haven't seen that so Check that out and then

you move on to the Nolan verse films and the

way I rate them is the it goes right Dark Knight

begins and then rises and I mean because out

of the three I think Dark Knight is the most

complete film on most of the levels like there's

still some nitpicky stuff Which I won't get into

but I think that's the best made film out of

the three. I like Batman Begins, because it was

a badass movie. I loved it. And yeah, I think

it took a little too long to get Bruce into the

costume, although you get more into the psychology

of his origin and all that, which is a lot. I

think it worked within that film. And I like

Rises. I think it's a great movie. I mean, Tom

Hardy is Bane. Like, damn, dude, you grew up.

You know they even got in the hole, you know

breaking Batman's back You know that shot. There's

pretty much the same shot from the comics and

the one thing like you gotta talk I gotta talk

about the ending now when I first saw the first

time I watched this movie in theaters and You

know, you see Batman sacrifice himself. Oh spoilers

if you haven't seen it yet If you haven't seen

it turn this podcast off and go see it and then

come back later pause it right now But no, so

like you think he's sacrificing though and I

was just like, you know F you know, you do not

kill the mother lovin Batman and then you see

that the end where he gives him, you know Alfred

the nod and it's like sup and they go the separate

ways and I was really kind of pissed at that

ending and then I was listening to a podcast

review. I think it was I think it was either

Dodds review on twig or another podcast, but

they they put forth the idea that You know Batman's

immortal in the comics, but he's mortal in these

movies specifically and that is like Well, yeah,

cuz you know, his knees all buggered already

and all that he doesn't have any cartilage so

and Why wouldn't he fix the thing? So this is

when you think about that he's mortal and he

would want to quit being Batman before he dies.

I Accepted the ending a lot more after that,

but by and large it was just a little too long

Like it just dragged in some spots in my opinion

So and then the right at the end there where

you know Robin finds the Batcave and all that

Why didn't Alfred just take him in through the

Conservatory there No, I have some I meant to

bring up on the MWIRE episode that we did about

it But I have a question about that. Was that

a separate cave? from Wayne Manors? No, it's

the same cave. It's just an alternate entrance

where he can drive the mobiles out. Yeah. OK,

because that has been bugging me for the past

couple of months. Well, right after we did that

episode, I was like, wait a second, is that,

you know, like I knew why he was going in there.

I knew it was the Batcave, but I didn't know

if it was. The same one because it just it didn't

seem like it but yeah, I guess I mean they only

showed the that entrance of the Batcave like

in Batman begins so if you didn't remember it

then that's that's why and I the only issue I

had with Robin the whole like Robin thing at

Dark Knight Rises is that When they asked what

his real name was I was expecting him to say

like Dick Grayson or Tim Drake or Tim Drake I

wasn't expecting to be like Robin. That's like

That's retarded. I would have just... Well, and

his name was John Blake. Yeah, if they just...

Which is like Tim Drake. If they'd just given

him like one of those two names, like as his

real name, instead of just making it Robin, I

would have been... Well, honestly, when I heard

his last name was Blake, I started thinking,

well, there's Thomas Blake in the comics who's

Catman. And then... The other thing I thought

they missed out on... with him was not making

him the kid from Batman Begins. Yeah, yeah. The

one that he handed the tool to. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, that would have been awesome. But he would

have been like maybe a rookie in the department.

Well, I mean, he still kind of technically was.

Yeah, he was a rookie police officer. He was

very green. And then they promoted him right

away because he was the only one with any damn

brains and managed just to figure out, hey, Bruce

Wayne is Batman. And, you know, which Tim Drake

did in the comics. They played off the comics

very well in that film. I was okay with the character.

I was just kind of bummed that they didn't connect

it to Batman Begins that way and that he wasn't

actually called one of the actual Robins. One

thing I do want to bring up, and I know Mike's

not a huge fan of fan -made stuff. Probably wouldn't

want to comment on this but there was a you can

find it on YouTube and I'll shoot you guys the

link later is a 50 minute short film called Batman

puppet master Where these fans they they actually

put a lot of work into this and they basically

introduced the Nolan verse version of Edward

Nigma who in this one is a brilliant FBI agent

who's You know trying to bring down Batman they

involve us like a Nolan version of Scarface a

Different actor playing the or Victor's as this

here slashing serial killer And it's basically

takes place just like a couple of years or something

after Dark night like the fur like Dark Knight

before Dark Knight rises. So if you can find

on YouTube, it's called Batman puppet master.

Check it out. It is really good And it ties into

the Nolan verse story very well Yeah, you'll

have to send that to us that does sound interesting.

Yeah So and one one thing I just want to ask

you guys How would like in the reboot because

obviously they're gonna reboot it now because

frankly if anyone tried to do another film in

this series they'd be insane and that might make

some pretty cool results where How would you

set up the next Batman film? What direction would

you make it more serious, or not more serious,

make it more comic book? Well, let's hold off

on that just for a second. Has everybody else

gotten their thoughts out on their film list?

Yeah. What about you, Steve? I originally saw

the 66 Batman, or 67, 66 Batman movie. That was

my first Batman film. Later on, I did see the

Batman serials, which we rented on VHS, because

I thought, oh, I like Batman. And then I was

like, it's Batman on disc, or not on disc, on

VHS. And then I saw it, and I'm like, oh, it's

black and white. And I ended up watching the

whole thing. I don't remember anything of it

now, because I saw it so long ago, which both

that, the 43 and 49, are on DVD. You know just

like Kroger stores, or you know just regular

retail So I saw those I saw the 66 Batman which

I really like I still I had that on DVD The Batgirl

legend of the superheroes I not I mean I'd heard

of them, but I hadn't actually seen them I've

seen screenshots more so Yeah, the Batgirl one

wasn't half bad. It's basically a pilot within

the TV show of the 66 series and The Legend of

the Superheroes was kind of extremely hokey from

what I've seen So I did see the 89 film the Tim

Burton film scared the hell out of me as a kid

I do like the 89 that's the only one out of the

The the 80 to 90s versions of the Batman films

that I can actually watch numerous times Batman

returns that one scared the hell out of me to

the point. I never watched a Batman movie again

after that till later on Just because I was like

five six or something around that time it just

the the the penguin just freaked me out, but

Then I saw Batman forever in Batman and Robin

Batman Forever wasn't half bad, although watching

it now, I still don't care for it all that much,

but I can watch it more than I can watch Batman

and Robin, which I have to laugh at and want

to burn the disc at the same time. Return to

the Batcave, I've seen that. That was pretty

funny, watching Adam West and Burt Ward go through

and relive their adventures, basically. Catwoman.

Never seen it never planned to Batman begins.

I missed that on the initial run I caught it

actually around the time the Dark Knight went

to theater and I saw the Dark Knight which I

really really enjoyed Batman begins. I like it

for the fact that The initial run into it you

get to see how he becomes Batman, which you don't

really get to see in anything Live -action anyway,

that's the first time so it's kind of a nice

nod the Dark Knight I of course like just because

it had the Joker and the intricate different

multiple plot lines going on because Let's face

it Nolan actually did something that the Burton

Schumacher verse never managed to actually conquer

correctly And that was playing with multiple

villains in the same plot. I Mean you look at

Batman Begins you have Scarecrow and you have

Ra's al Ghul even though they pronounce it Ra's

The Dark Knight, you have Scarecrow for a brief

second, you've got the Joker, the Mob, you have

Two -Face, so I mean, you've got all these guys

in that film. And then The Dark Knight Rises,

of course, you not only have every inmate in

Arkham, or Blackgate, you have Scarecrow, you

have Bane, you have Catwoman in a sense, I mean,

you've got everybody up against - Talia? Yeah,

you've got Talia. Yeah, good remembering that

one. I completely blip for a second. Yeah, never

mind that she's the mastermind behind the whole

damn thing. But yeah, so I mean, you've got all

these villains that play really nicely into the

storyline and they each have an important part

instead of just being kind of cannon fodder like

Batman and Robin. So I mean, I really love The

Dark Knight Rises and The Dark Knight. Those

are probably my two favorite films out of the

entire list. I really, really enjoyed The Dark

Knight Rises. I can't wait till that comes to

Blu -ray. But yeah, so that's my list. And then

getting into your suggestion, JT, I think I would

like to see them. go in a completely different

direction not redoing the origin story because

let's face it if everybody's seen batman begins

they pretty much know how he got started i mean

there's not that much deviation in all the different

comic forms it's pretty much along those lines

and if it's not that it's uh something similar

as far as his training uh but i would like to

see them honestly take a completely different

approach i'd like to see them either do like

a batman beyond or I'd like to see them do kind

of a, you know, middle -aged Batman doing it,

you know, like basically Bruce before he gave

up the mantle or see a Dark Knight Returns -ish

type old Batman or just some other alternate

take on the character that doesn't necessarily

have his origin story, like just kind of... you

kind of jump into it in a sense, more or less.

I'd just like to see them try something new instead

of trying to rehash what's been done. And I don't

think that they need to go for, I think there

needs to be a little bit of a lighter tone to

it just because these films have been so dark.

I don't think people will tolerate it for future

films because this was the tone for this whole

series. I think they need to go in a completely

different vibe. in order to recapture people

that aren't necessarily Batman fans. Oh yeah,

no, I totally agree with that. No, go with me

on this. This is how I think they should start

the next movie. Doesn't matter what genre or

take they have on it. Over the opening credits.

You show the origin like cuts between like, you

know starring blah blah blah blah and kind of

like with the spider -man Yeah exactly like how

they how they open spider -man to with the the

you know the cuts of that That's how you open

the next Batman movie as far as the genre or

kind of tone I would like to see a very caught

kind of a more caught fun comic book II Batman

feel not unlike the Avengers No However, you

think of that movie Just take that kind of extended

just make it you know you you show the origin

in the intro You put it right in Batman's been

going for however many years You know criminals

hate him kids want to be him the cops are kind

of indifferent You know because he's doing our

jobs, but hey, he's the one getting shot at by

the Joker and then Would like to see something

like that just a very comic book Batman film

not that you know not the Tim Burton You know

not the Schumacher not the Nolan just something

that's not necessarily light But something that's

fun if you could take the tone of the Batman

You know in that very kind of Not poppy, but

that very kind of action Cartoonie sort of vibe

right and apply that to a live action film to

make it just kind of accessible to everybody

And just make it fun. You know? I'm more so in

line with what Steve is saying. I want a Terry

McGinnis movie. And I know that's not gonna happen

because of the simple fact that the mainstream

audience has no idea who the f**k he is. But

I think if they did that movie in a way to where

they play off of Epilogue from JLU, where Bruce

has been training Terry for so many years, And

they, you know, they find out that he's Bruce's

son blah blah, kind of like a passing the mantle

type of thing. I would love to have a Batman

Beyond movie. I like your idea too as well, JT,

but it's just, I want something different at

this point. Oh yeah, no, I get that. It's just

that's... I don't know, I... It's... It's tough

because I like... I... Don't want to see the

Avengers aesthetic of comic book movies applied

to DC stuff I don't know because they played

dark really well I and I and I think I think

what's going to happen is they're gonna see how

man of steel is How that is received both, you

know visually and and critically and they're

gonna they're that is Probably where they're

gonna see can they get away doing what they do

best, which is You know putting a realistic look

on a movie or Or is or is the audience really

clamoring for that? glossy superhero look Personally,

I'm more of a fan of the the real -world lens

than I am of giving everything a glossy sheen

But at the same time, I mean, I think I know

some people didn't like it as much as I did I

think Amazing Spider -Man sits probably right

in the middle between The look you have a you

get the the real -world lens, but you get a more

comic book II feel to it yeah, so I guess and

especially when JT brought up the The look of

the Batman I think I think you can do it. The

problem is you run a very fine line of, especially

with a guy that runs around with a cape and a

cowl and his rogues gallery, it walks that fine

line between, it's either camp or serious. And

I think it would take somebody really talented

to walk that fine line right down the middle

with it. And I would like to see it although

I can't think of someone up a director off the

top of my head that I would wish to tackle that

I can't think of one either and the other thing

I was thinking of is if if they were to ever

do a Batman Beyond movie Not only could you tell

the origin of Terry McGinnis you could also Go

if you wanted to make it really comic or not

comic, but if you want to make it comical and

campy You could adapt the Egg Baby episode. Yeah.

I just don't want to camp. Well, right. I mean,

a little camp is OK. But if you just go completely

campy, it's a little too much, isn't it, Batman

and Robin? But that's the tough part about Batman

is once you go a little camp, it's kind of hard

to pull yourself back. The one thing I do want

to point out, I think one If you think of other

movies that kind of have that straddle that line

of campy, but kind of serious, but still a lot

of fun to watch, Fast and Furious. You get Rob

Cohen, the guy that directed the first one to

do a Batman film. I think he could hit that.

I think he could hit the target on that. On that

have actually gotten better. So even Justin Lin.

Yeah. Yeah, Justin Lin exactly right there because

especially if you look at fast five, I mean It's

completely over -the -top and silly and campy

But I guess that it just comes down to the look

like yeah, how are you how you dress up Batman?

Right. The other thing I was thinking of really

quickly for Batman Beyond story was you could

either do one of two things you could use Terry's

main rogue which In most people's minds it his

main rogue is ink Or you could do the curare

story and that kind of has the whole league of

it It doesn't really have anything to do with

race, but it kind of has the whole thing of League

of Shadows and blah blah blah You could do that.

I don't know. I just First of all to be new it

yeah, it needs to be new but If they're gonna

do another actual Batman Bruce Wayne movie, for

me it's gonna depend on who they put in the suit.

Michael Keaton the old Bruce. Do what? Michael

Keaton the old Bruce sitting in the chair. He's

pretty much emotionless. I don't like that. I

don't think that would work. But the thing is,

it's like just a regular Batman Bruce Wayne reboot.

I'll say this now because we're still talking

about the films. JT brought it up earlier about

how he liked Val Kilmer as Bruce Wayne. For me,

in the original late 80s, early 90s films, Michael

Keaton is a better Batman than he is a Bruce

Wayne. And Val Kilmer is a better Bruce Wayne

than he is a Batman. See, that would work because

Keaton plays Batman and old Bruce is Batman.

Right Yeah, I guess I Don't know time is only

gonna tell I think everything, you know DC is

you know Warner Brothers in DC are obviously

hinging everything and see how it's man of steel

does I'm You know cautiously optimistic. Well,

there is you know out there there is the the

new green arrow television series coming out

they are trying to you know, for all intents

and purposes, trying to get Wonder Woman either

movie or TV show still. TV show will never happen.

I know the TV show will never happen unless it's

on WB because they've already done Superman.

They're doing Green Arrow. I think that if anybody

would pick it up, it would be CW. I don't think

it'll work on any of the other major networks

because it's different that way. I've watched

that Amazon show. I would. I would. Depends on

who they they put in the suit again but You know

then you know also flash and some of the other

ones I mean they're trying to you know create

the Justice League But yeah, I agree with all

all the comments for the most part so What about

the animated films just quickly? Well, we'll

get to that we're gonna get to that okay, so

we'll be back after this Audio break And now

that we're back with more continuing coverage,

we're going to jump into the video game section.

So going around the panel, what are your real

briefly because, as we stated off air, this will

be covered more in depth in the next episode

of XRG that is after four, I think. So XRG episode

five. Yes, it'll be five. So yeah, we'll get

more depth in there. So just briefly guys go

around the table and kind of just list your experiences

with the games and For me really quickly I loved

and I love hate relationship with the NES Batman

game from Sunsoft That was my first exposure

to Batman games and the hardest part about that

game for me was When you had to climb up a wall

and you had to go back and forth, back and forth...

Oh my god, I hated that part of the game. I would

love to play... I'm gonna jump around. That's

pretty much the only stuff that I've had actual

gameplay on. I would love... I really wanted

to play when it came out. I wanted to play Batman

Beyond Return of the Joker. I wanted to play

that so bad on PlayStation. I'd love to be able

to play that again or play for the first time

and just figure out what it was. I played Vengeance

on the PlayStation. It was alright. I didn't

like the mechanics of it. And then Arkham Asylum

and Arkham City, I definitely want to play those

eventually. But yeah, really, my only actual

playtime exposure with Batman games was the NES

game. What about you, JT? Honestly, when it comes

to the video games, I played the Batman Returns

Super NES game back in the day. Probably my favorite

level on that was where you get to drive in the

Batmobile and you're shooting the bat discs out

at members of the Penguin's gang, which was a

lot of fun. I did later play the Genesis version

of the Adventures of Batman and Robin. Which

is based on the animated series. I had a lot

of fun with that because it's just it's a solid

game all around I never played the super nests

Batman forever, but I did play the Sega Saturn

Batman forever arcade game, which is basically

It's like the old Mortal Kombat. So, you know

a bunch of people in costumes rotoscoped and

they fight So it looks like horrible horrible

After that, I didn't play a Batman video game

again, probably, let's see, that one came out,

what, 97? I didn't play again until Batman Vengeance

in 2001, so like five years later, which was

kind of based on like the Red Sky era of the

Batman TAS series, which it was okay. I love

the Lego video game, it's awesome. The Arkham

series is... hands -down bar none the best superhero

video game experience there is no granted there's

widely disparate very widely disparate superheroes

you know you got mutants you got gods from another

planet you got millionaires or billionaires with

mommy daddy issues but specifically Arkham Asylum

You know, it's that three -quarter view over

the shoulder sort of thing where you actually

are Batman You know, you're more or less playing

it from his perspective and you get all the toys,

you know, so Definitely those series and of them

all Arkham City is like the best game. I Mean,

it's basically Grand Theft Auto in Gotham City

It's like sit five times larger than you know

Arkham Asylum and it's just a simple fact that

they get you know, a lot of the voices from Batman

T .S. to do the voices in this series. I mean,

you got, you know, did... Was it Tara Strong

in Arkham Asylum in Arkham City, or was that...

No, Arlene Sorkin reprised Harley in Asylum,

and then Tara took over in City. Okay, yeah.

And then, you know, you of course have... I know

it's Maurice LaMarche doing... Mr. Freeze in

Arkham City, but it sounds like, the name escapes

me right now, the voice actor from TAS, but it

sounds so much like him. Michael and Sarah. Yeah,

it's like, it's scary how good LaMarche is. And

then, you know, you have Hamill and Conroy doing

what they do best. So, I mean, definitely Arkham

City overall is like my favorite Batman game.

Did you say Arkham Asylum or Arkham City? Arkham

City, I meant to say, yeah. Mike, what about

you? Well, I mean, we'll go more in -depth on

this, especially when I have a chance to research

and play some more of the Batman games. But like

you, Mike, I remember playing the NES one. Don't

remember getting very far in it because... No.

Yeah, it wasn't. It just... As cool as that game

was when it came out it sucked as far as difficulty.

Yeah Then I remember some of the games that JT

was talking about like the stupid Nintendo and

stuff like that I remember like playing one on

the Jaguar I don't remember which Batman it was

but I do remember playing on the Jaguar As far

as I never really played it out them on the PlayStation

2 just because I Didn't show up my radar in that

era I got I jumped on the Arkham Asylum Van wagon

late Probably maybe like a year late. I might

even only about a couple of months I don't really

know all I know is I was playing one game and

I was like, you know what this game would be

the game I was playing was good I was like, you

know what would make this game really good is

if it was Batman. And so when I was done playing

that game, I decided that I was going to play

Arkham Asylum. And the reason I wasn't going

to play it is because it's what I call a push

button to win game. Everything is contextual.

It doesn't really involve any kind of skill to

play, which at this point in my life I actually

kind of appreciate. But. I appreciate Arkham

Asylum more than Arkham City. I feel like Arkham

Asylum was... I have to disagree with you on

that, JT. I thought Arkham Asylum was way better

than City. I thought City didn't know what it

was trying to do. In fact, there are huge parts

of Arkham City I missed because I thought that

the game would actually make me do them like

Arkham Asylum did, and it didn't. So, I did like

Arkham City because it was just more, it was

more the gameplay from Arkham Asylum, which no

one can doubt that the gameplay in those games

is good. Although one of the things I'm kind

of going over in my head right now for the XRG

episode is, are the Arkham games good games or

are they just good Batman games? And that's one

of the things I'm kind of, myself and some of

the XRG guys are kind of rustling with right

now. As it stands, they're excellent Batman games

because there hasn't been a good Batman game.

And it does implement other elements from various

other games really well. But that's something

that we'll be talking about on the XRG show.

Mean, it's you know, everyone's good. I think

they're of what's come so far because it's basically

Batman or spider -man You know, yeah, I mean

and it's just It is it's a good I Don't know

I just I guess I just play so many I'll listen

to the XRG episode. You see what you see there.

I'm just saying yeah, it's We'll see what you

say. Maybe that'll change my opinion It probably

won't. Well, unlike certain members of this podcast,

you know, the other guy named Mike, I actually

do change my opinion. Right. You can't judge

a movie by trailers, Mike. It's just not right.

Thank you. Oh my God. Yep. It's an initial judgment,

you asshats. Oh, that feels... My initial game

introduction to Batman was actually on the SNES.

I... Played it at a friend's house when I was

younger. I think it was like Batman Returns or

something I don't remember much of the game other

than it was stupidly horrible Just like every

other game prior to the disc based ones I Tried

playing Batman Beyond return of the Joker and

an emulator that game was horrible Wanted to

play Vengeance, but Just never got around to

it not never bought it Same thing with the rise

of sin zoo My pretty much the only Batman games

I've played since then have been Arkham Asylum

Arkham City DC and DC universe Arkham Asylum.

I really liked it I like the fact that they brought

back Conroy, Hamill, and Sorkin. And I really

liked the fact that the game was really tight

-knit and knew what it was going out to accomplish.

Arkham City I really love. For the plethora of

villains that are in it. The giant exploration

area. I do also agree with Mike Powers that the

game does kind of get lost in its own multiple

plot line thing going on quite often even when

you're trying to stay on the main storyline but

I do like the increased gadgets and all the different

places you get to actually go it could have used

a little bit more refinement but it was it was

I enjoy that game tremendously more than Arkham

Asylum although I do feel that it is a hell of

a lot easier than Arkham Asylum at points. DC

Universe, I played that for a while until I got

bored and then I quit playing it. And then of

course I'm looking forward to the Injustice game

only for the fact that it's a fighting game.

But that's pretty much it as far as games are

concerned, at least for the short bit. So, what

has been your guys' exposure with the animation

department from the early 68 all the way to 2012

of Batman? The early 60s and 70s stuff, I don't.

Yes, I'm sure I can go back and I can remember

that, oh yes, this was this, this was that, but

right now at this point, They're all blending

together. It's like, oh, here's an episode of

Challenge of the Super Friends, or here's an

episode of All New Super Friends Hour, here's

an episode of Legendary Super Powers Show, blah,

blah, blah. Essentially, they're all the same

damn show. Pretty much. I mean, yeah, there's

different characters. I loved the new Batman

adventures. Because it well really how I found

out about that was through these Scooby -Doo

movies say what you will about those But that's

how I found out about them, and I really enjoyed

them You know I've said it before and I'll say

it again. I love Batman the Intermediate Series

I love Mask of the Phantasm Sub -Zero Batman

Beyond I was channel flipping one day in 99 somewhere

around there And I flipped over to the WB back

then and I was like, wait. It was like right

on the intro shot when Bruce's head swivels in

the opening. I'm like, wait a second, why is

Bruce Wayne old? Why is there an old Bruce Wayne

here? What the hell's going on? And it just,

back then at 19 and just at that point I hadn't

watched a lot of the animated series after the

initial, you know, after I kind of grew up. I

like Batman Beyond. I think it's a great series.

I also think it has a number of really bad episodes

in it. But I love, love, love, love, love Return

of the Joker. Return of the Joker is easily the

best animated Batman film in the DCAU that solely

focuses on Bruce Wayne and and and Tarramina.

It's just absolutely amazing. The Gotham girls

web series. I see you you can actually get that

on the birds of prey DVD I Liked it. I saw it.

It was all right one anything really that that

spectacular Justice League again. I love Justice

League. I mean my buddy Michael and I did a Whole

podcast on Justice League secret origins podcast

When I first saw mystery of the batwoman, I was

like fuck is this and and still to this day mystery

the batwoman seems like more so an afterthought

because it really has it is in the dcu continuity

but it it's kind of one of those things where

it just doesn't know where it can fit as far

as the chemistry quote -unquote chemistry between

barbara and bruce teen titans is not in continuity

Not at all. The Batman, I like it. The only DVD

set, seasons that I bought was season five because

I like the team ups. I blame Boomerang for showing

a number of years ago over and over and over

again season one and season two. I saw season

one and season two episodes so many friggin'

times. I'm like, can we see something new by

now, please? Justice League Unlimited. just like

the original first two seasons of Justice League

was absolutely amazing. I've never seen Batman

vs Dracula. That movie's creepy. It's pretty

good. I mean, they get the drunk Russian cosmonaut

from Armageddon to voice Dracula. It's a good

movie. I just thought it was creepy. Oh yeah.

New Frontier. I like it on the sole purpose that

it's a Justice League movie, but I'm sorry Jeremy

Sisto should not be Batman. That was bad voice

acting choice. I think it was better than the

Bald when they used later on. No, I'd reverse

that. Gotham Knight, it should not have, as much

as I love Kevin Conroy and I think Kevin Conroy

should be every voice of animated Batman, Gotham

Knight should not have used Kevin Conroy because

Gotham Knight is a disjointed friggin' mess.

It is six individual stories supposedly trying

to tie together Batman Begins in the Dark Knight

and it just didn't friggin' work. Brave and the

Bold, I liked the series finale episode with

Batmite, that was pretty awesome. And Ambush

Mug, voiced by the Fonz. Yes. I enjoyed Public

Enemies for what it is. I loved Crisis on Two

Earths. Under the Red Hood is probably the best

Batman -centric. film in the DC universe animated

original movies to this point obviously we haven't

seen the dark knight returns part one or part

two yet those will be coming out soon Superman

Batman apocalypse I liked it but as I said in

the Tooncast Beyond episode with that at the

end when they're at the farm I was like wait

it's over and then all of a sudden dark side

comes up like oh no it's not over because I swear

to God that whole scene is like oh okay Yay,

happy ending. I swear, I almost turned it off.

I'm like, oh, wait a second. What is this? Doom

is by far, for me, the best DCAU reunion cast

type of thing. And I really, really enjoyed that

storyline. What about you, Mike? Jesus. I like

the animated series. I watched it. I rewatched

it again a few years ago. I also, for the first

time ever, watched Batman Beyond then as well.

It's all right. When they do sci -fi and stuff

like that, I'd rather see the direct continuity

with the original, with Bruce Wayne. I wouldn't...

Yeah, I want to see a future Batman, Batman,

not like someone else being Batman. The only

episode that I really liked that entire series

though was when they tied it back to And it wasn't

even a Batman Beyond episode was it when they

tied it back to the DC you heard the Tim verse

and that was the Justice League epilogue Yeah,

see I actually I like Batman Beyond only after

I saw that episode I really enjoyed The Batman

in terms of some of the newer stuff. I don't

know, it's pretty similar to what Mike said about

it, but I'm trying to figure out how to put this

stuff into thoughts here, so I don't know. Yeah,

I like the animated stuff. I like generally I

haven't watched brave in the bold because I just

felt it was too it looked too cheesy some of

the movies Especially the Red Hood I I Don't

know. I didn't I couldn't finish it I'm not quite

sure what it was at this point. I know I only

made like 30 minutes in I was like nah not having

it I don't know if it was the fact that they

have like a different voice actor for Batman

or just something with the story, but I just

never finished it. I did watch Superman Batman

Apocalypse, but I had also read the graphic novel

that it was based off of. I'm not a big fan of

them making cartoons out of these comics, mainly

because I know what happens and they don't really

change it up all that much. probably find a way

to watch Dark Knight Returns just because I actually

do like that comic and I want to see what happens,

but Yeah, they're all good in some way What you

JT Well, just looking at the list here I think

we could all agree in some fact the beginning

of the 66 TV series was technically the first

Batman cartoon we ever saw You know because I

remember seeing that the first Because it's not

entirely clear, but I remember the first time

I saw the show. I thought it was the Batman cartoon.

I missed like the The teaser I just saw the intro

and I was like there's a Batman cartoon, you

know and Honestly, I didn't see any animated

Batman probably until the 1990 like the 92 series

Because I remember seeing ads for the Superpowers

collection VHS tapes that came out back in the

day, which were, you know, doing research for

the series, was basically, like, not re -edited,

but, I guess, repackaged filmation cartoons of,

like, the Aquaman, the Superman, Batman, Superboy,

stuff like that. I never really watched the Super

Friends probably until I was like 15 or 16 when

we got one of those big old C -Band satellite

dishes. You know, and I got Cartoon Network and

they're showing like, you know, Super Friends,

the challenge of the Super Friends, all that.

You know, what more can you say about the TAS

series? I will, while I do come down on the red

sky portion of the series towards the end, it

did have one of my all time favorite TAS episodes,

which was Wear the Creeper. I just love that

episode because it's basically half Spider -Man

half Joker Like he's even creeping out the Joker

played by Mark Hamill, which was awesome I love

Batman mask of the phantasm. That's like if you

were if I was to do like a top five list of all

-time favorite Batman films That's like number

three easily You know followed or right behind

Dark Knight and 89. I never saw the Gotham Girls

web series. I love Batman Beyond. As we've all

said, Return of the Joker is awesome. I own the

edited and unedited copies. I actually have the,

remember the old plastic white clamshell VHS

tapes? Oh yeah. I've got a Return of the Joker

copy in that. Justice League, I really love how

They made Batman just a little bit more of a

dick in Justice League But it's totally in line

with the character like he's a loner. He'll help

out when he can but You know other than that

don't call me. I've seen mystery of the Batwoman

once it's a decent animated film Technically

in DC you continuity, but if you ignored it doesn't

really matter It's a complete afterthought, you

know as far as the animation style in that the

end not the style But the animation quality the

animation quality in that movie sucks. It's a

very very weekly done I liked Teen Titans. I

know it's not in continuity. I did like the series

and that's like you're not alone You know, I

enjoyed it. I've read those comics for years

and you know the fact they got Xander Berkeley

who plays like He plays dead like dicks very

well like he's up there with William Atherton

Playing a Mento in the Doom Patrol episode was

awesome the Batman I've loved that Mike and I

did an episode where I declared my love for this

series Yes, and it's not called the crap man

ever Unlimited was awesome. I mean who didn't

love the intro to that and the fact that it's

like team ups every episode was awesome The Batman

vs Dracula movie, like I said, I love that movie.

Was it Peter Stromer? I believe it was the actor's

name that played Dracula. It was actually kind

of cool and it's kind of creepy for a kids movie

in a way. New Frontier, I have the comic book.

I love Darwin Cook's art. I love how it's represented

in this movie very well. Sisto, you know, Mike

will agree to disagree. I think he was better

than the Baldwin brother. in crisis on two earths.

I just can't, I just can't, I agree that his

voice fits that version of Batman in New Frontier.

I just don't like him as an overall Batman voice

because number one, he's a detective on Law and

Order, and number two, he's the kid from Dean

Kuntz's Hideaway when he's stalking Alicia Silverstone

in that movie based on Dean Kuntz's book. Whatever,

it's too weird to have him as a Batman voice

to me. Wasn't he also in Clueless with Alicia

Silverstone? No, he wasn't in Clueless. Anyway,

Gotham Knight, I enjoyed it for what it was,

but yeah, it didn't necessarily need to be made.

Out of all the DCAU movies, I like Public Enemies,

I like Apocalypse. I still say it's a travesty,

they didn't get Ironside back for Apocalypse

on that. I just didn't dig the art so they're

aping late Michael Turner who sadly, you know

lost the fight to cancer a Couple years before

the movie was made and I did like his art. It's

just I don't think it works his animation out

of all the DC AU movies my favorites are You

know public enemies because I like Ed McGinnis's

art style and I think they did that very well

in there The way they resurrected Jason Todd

in Under the Red Hood made a hell of a lot more

sense than some whiny super boy from another

dimension punching a wall and affecting reality.

Because if you read the story Infinite Crisis,

the miniseries, there are these characters that

went off to some pocket dimension at the end

of the crisis on infinite earths back in the

80s. And they watch the world as it changes.

The Lex Luthor kid and Super Bitch Prime. You

know, we don't like this. So super bitch. Sorry

Steve super boy You know, he starts punching

this crystal wall and that sends waves of cosmic

significance out into the ether and they basically

resurrect Jason Todd in the coffin after he's

been buried and Then he digs his way out and

he finds his way to racial ghoul whereas in the

cartoon He's just taken like a few hours after

he was shot The one thing I will say really quickly,

I'm sorry to cut you out, the one thing I'll

say really quickly about the DC Universe animated

films, they have to condense these stories into

70, 80, 90 minute films. What do you find more

believable, somebody punching a wall and someone

coming back to life, or an ancient cult of assassins

stealing a corpse and dipping it into some toxic

waste? Still in a corpse and dumping it into

toxic waste is more than I point exactly Yeah,

right. I think my favorite is out of the DC movies

is crisis on two earths. I love that Like I said,

I prefer Sisto's voice I still it's not to say

the Baldwin didn't do so bad. Yeah, I thought

he did pretty good It's just that's more of a

teen teen movie for anything. So he didn't have

to try it that hard. Yeah, and I agree, Doom,

it's a great reunion movie. Nathan Fillion is

how Jordan was awesome. And the fact that it's

Jackie Chiles is voicing Vandal Savage is both

awesome and weird at the same time. If you know

your Seinfeld. That was another reunion, Phil

Morris, because Phil Morris was Vandal in Justice

League. I know, but it's just, it still gets

to me every time I watch Justice League or Doom.

It's just like, that's Jackie Chan, that's the

Martian manager from Smallville, man. Damn, he's

cold. You know, like that scene here, cut my

throat out and then gets up and he uses his pimp

hand on Cheetah. So, I mean, Doom, I think the

only thing I can really complain about in Doom

is that leotard that bane was wearing like dude

you're a guy we don't need to see a bear midriff

and Well, I like star sapphires costume, but

then I'm a red -blooded a male and I like women

who dress slutty so What about you Steve what

is your exposure to animation um I have seen

a lot of the the Like the super friends the the

different shows in that category. I'd seen those

Pretty much around the same time. I watched Batman

the animated series on television Mask of the

phantasm holds a special place for me because

not only is it Batman the animated series It

was the first movie I ever saw in the theater

So I really really loved that film The As far

as some of the other Batman films go in here

The Batman Superman movie I didn't see until

recent years. I really do like that as well Sub

-zero is another really well Animated and voiced

film and very good plot. I'd like to say I'd

say that too. Yeah, I could definitely agree

with that As far as the animated series, I'd

like it and then I've never heard that term before

that you're using for the new adventures I've

heard it called Gotham Knights as the secondary

title Well, no, it's it's more of a fan thing

because once they go to that You know the angular

style that towards the end there any time you're

out in the open It's never a blue sky. It's always

got like that red I don't know if that's an homage

to stuff from Crisis on Infiniturs, but almost

every episode that they're outside is always

red if it's out in the day. I've never noticed

that until you pointed it out. I like the stories,

I just wasn't a fan of the animation. I really

liked Batman Beyond, not only in plot, but in

animation as well. I liked the homages back to

the animated series with the Bane reference.

You had the almost clay face reference, almost

Scarecrow reference with the newer villains.

You had Freeze actually show up, and you had

the Joker show up, and of course, Rachetalia.

The Return of the Joker, that's quite possibly

one of my favorite films which I'm going to have

in a blog post later. Teen Titans, never saw

it, never liked the animation, never liked anything

that took cues from that animation. Yeah, well

Transformers animated still the same I don't

care for that much either The Batman I'd never

gotten into because for me without Conroy, it's

just not Batman Justice League and unlimited

I really Never had seen those and never had sought

them out until I listened to the secret origins

podcast The Batman vs. Dracula I actually watched

that a couple years ago on Netflix It's not a

bad flick at all. Very creepy. Especially with

the villains that are in it and the way that

they all miraculously kind of turn into vampires.

Well, as bad as the Joker was in that, you have

to admit the Joker in this was fucking creepy.

Yeah, the giggling, blood -sucking Joker. That

was just really, really strange. The blood -bank

fight is what... Oh yeah. It's not even like,

you know, they obviously cuz it's a animated

film. They the blood wasn't red It was just black

but anyone that knows what where they are knows

what it is And it's just that much creepier because

it's everywhere Yeah, like when it's raining

on them in that yeah Yeah, that was just sick

New frontier I tried watching it. I just couldn't

get into it Gotham night I like the fact that

Conroy is the voice of Batman, but I really couldn't

get into that Multiple storytellings now that

was like they're they were trying to do an animatrix

thing, right? Yeah, yeah, and it was horrible.

I Remember liking one or two of them, but the

same thing happened with the animatrix. I only

like one or two of those as well The brave and

the bold the only episode I've ever seen it never

cared to see is the one with the Batman of Zurinar.

Yeah, it's Zurinar. I forgot the name of it already.

Although they did get Adam West in one episode

as well, which was kind of cool. As Batman or?

No, it was basically the Phantom Stranger and

the Spectre are trying to pull Batman, you know,

to vengeance or justice. And at one point he's

kind of sent back in time to this night. where

his dad went dressed as a Batman. It's something

from the comics. You have to look it up. And

they got Adam West to voice Thomas Wayne. And

they got one of the costume characters is Kevin

Conroy. They had the Joker playing the other

one or Mark Hamill is the other guy. Yeah. But

and then getting into Public Enemy's Superman

Batman, I really like that film. I like the animation.

It's not my favorite, but I still love it. Crisis

on Two Earths, I thought that was a really nice

tale between the alternate universe and the prime

universe battle of the heroes and villains. Under

the Red Hood, really, really well done movie.

I like the multiple references. I like the night

wing in there. I like, you know, the Bruce Greenwood

playing Batman. He's about the only other one

I would accept as Batman other than Kevin Conroy

Apocalypse I hated the animation Right off the

bat. I hated that but I loved the voice cast

and I the plot was really good And then getting

into the final one Justice League Doom That movie

was just gold it brought back the justice league

cast you had the addition of cyborg from I mean

Teen Titans basically I think yeah then I just

I like the entire rogues gallery thing and the

Jet League of Legion of Doom and Just the way

that that whole thing played out and the Dark

Knight returns I'm really looking forward to

since I read the graphic novel and That has me

really pumped to see how that turns out and From

the clips I've seen so far. It looks very very

promising I'm looking forward to Dark Knight

Returns, both part one and part two. This is

the first time that they've done a DC Universe

original animated movie in a two -part release.

Initially, I just can't get past Robocop as Batman.

From the trailers that I've seen, I think it

sounds okay, but I have to wait until I see the

movie. the whole online community oh my god it's

Robocop is Batman this is the best thing ever

overall Batman and animation has just been for

me and what I pay attention to with Batman has

just been awesome I mean Batman and Justice League

and I consider Justice League an entire series

yes I know it changed with Unlimited but everywhere

it's listed online it's listed 2001 and 2006

You watch that series and you hear the one -liners

that he gets is just so amazing What's next Steve

next on the the palette because we're almost

done here We're gonna go down to basically our

top fives list of the the character gallery and

when I say that I mean we're going to jump into

Starting off with the rogue's gallery the bat

family Which means basically any helping hand

that Bruce has and then Then we'll go to Some

audio quotes and then come back with our final

thoughts so Mike would you like to start out

with your top five of the Rogues gallery? It

can be from it. It has to be one of the Bruce

Batman related Rogues though not Terry Right,

yeah. Well, Terry's rogues gallery isn't that...

there isn't much there. He just really has no

rogues gallery. Penguin, as much as I've said

currently on Legends of the Dark Knight, we're

up to episode 16, as much as I've said in that

podcast that Penguin in the animated series is

essentially just a... common gangster criminal

with a bird fetish. Penguin in the 66 series

was just absolutely amazing. So Penguin would

be my number five. Number four would probably

be... Probably be Poison Ivy. She's hot, but

the plant thing is just a little too... Pulling

plant gimmicks is just a little bit too much

for me. Number three would be Two -Face. I really,

really enjoy Two -Face. I like that story. I

find it extremely hilarious that Bull from Night

Court voices Two -Face in T .A .S. That was Clancy

Brown. No, it wasn't. Yeah, Richard Moll did

Kriller Kroc. No. Yeah, it's Clancy Brown as

Two -Face. No, it's not. No, it's not. We're

doing the show right now. It's I'll I'll pull

it up on it's fine It's it's Richard mall as

as Harvey Dent to face and Batman the animated

series Clancy Brown played Lex Luthor in Superman

the animated series So anyway to face And I didn't

want to put them together, but they are together

Number two and number one would be number two

would be Harley I just love her. She's just amazing

She's just hilarious and she makes such a really

really strange bedfellows to number one being

the Joker. The Joker throughout both the live

-action silver screen films and the DC animated

universe is just great. As I said earlier in

the episode between Cesar Romero, Jack Nicholson

and Heath Ledger you have three very very different

unique portrayals. And then Mark Hamill as the

Joker in the DCAU is just amazing. The other

Joker that I did like was John DiMaggio as the

Joker in Under the Red Hood. I thought that was

a unique performance as well. What about you,

Mike? I like Mr. Freeze. This is no particular

order I Like mr. Freeze because I like the I

like his story. Yeah, I like the Riddler Because

I think the suit is cool. You know, I think some

of his stories Just I like his character design

in the in the animated series the most I Obviously

the the Joker Let's see I don't know it's Probably

I'll just go ahead and say poison ivy and Can

we consider a catwoman a villain or she just

she's kind of an anti hero I'll just throw around

there. It depends on what day of the week it

is So I mean, it's just it everyone knows the

character so either you you like him or you don't

I but I've always liked the way they were represented

in the animated series on through You know Justice

League unlimited and stuff like that so Yeah

What about you JT I'd say For good Just for a

sheer goof factor for villains, I love the egghead

from the 66 series played by Vincent Price. There's

a brilliant sort of crazy person I've always

appreciated. As far as real villains, would be

Mr. Freeze. I mean, once they kind of incorporated

the whole Nora thing into the DC comics, from

Batman TAS. It just made him a lot more interesting.

Whereas before he's like, oh, I'm stuck in a

suit. And how did I get here? I can't handle

heat. It's like, yeah, you and everybody else.

What makes you so special? But once they gave

him that backstory, it's like, damn. Number three

would be the Riddler. Just because I love the

idea is like, how smart would you have to be

to brag about your crimes beforehand and leave

all these things? I mean, That's that's balls.

Oh, that's balls of steel. Oh sterling steel

number two villain of Batman now, I might get

death threats for this is the Joker. No, I love

the Joker but in terms of favorite Batman villains

my favorite Batman villain is vain because it's

kind of like if you take a close look at their

rogues gallery a lot of their villains are somewhat

similar. So the Joker is basically the Green

Goblin to, you know, that's... Batman's Spider

-Man, but who's his venom? And Bane is his venom

because when you look at the origin of Bane,

you know, he trained himself to this, like, physical

perfection all his own way. You know, he's well

-educated as he could make himself, and he's

still pretty damn smart. He's basically Batman...

You know instead of turning steroids. Well. Yeah,

but he's basically instead of turning left he

turned right Yeah in life, so I mean I just love

the fact that he's this in that this evil analogy

to Batman now I Could be wrong, but that's how

I see it. You know it's just Bane And I just

love the initial design to where he looks like

this you know Mexican luchador wrestler on crank

You know, he's constantly juicing, but once they

got him away from the venom and he became like

Batman, you know, he's this marvel of physical

perfection. He's just a big dick. Well, I won't

begrudge you your choices. Your choices are your

choices. I would argue that the Joker is a more

overall... rounded villain for Batman because

he not only represents the psychological and

mental ability to outwit Batman, he also is a

physical threat as well. He's not as much of

a physical threat as Bane is, but Joker has it

all, and without the Joker to keep him on his

toes, Batman wouldn't have a job to go to. There's

only two interpretations that I've seen of the

Joker that... uh... probably outside the comics

where i could i'd believe he could go toe -to

-toe that was he pleasures joker and that was

the joker in the batman uh... i would never put

the uh... batman the animated series up against

uh... the batman is like any kind of physical

threat oh yes he is i'd never saw it that way

anyways uh... steve your choices for me it's

kind of a Kind of a difficult one because there

are so many great villains I'd have to put and

I mean this I have a favorite set of choices

anyway, but I like Bane Just overall doesn't

matter the continuity just because the sheer

ruthlessness of him and the fact that he's intelligent

in everything other than the Schumacher films.

He's basically the complete physical armada threat

against Batman that Batman really can't fight

with, but he has to outwit and maneuver. So I

would put him at number five. The next one I'd

have to choose is Mr. Freeze. And while I do

like his different animated counterparts, I think

his DCAU continuity version, I think is the best

interpretation of him. Just overall, I like the

character, I like the voicing, the style of the

suits. The only thing that they... Changed as

far as like when you enter the new 52 they had

a special like one of the annuals They made it

so that freeze basically was a scientist working

on this woman that was frozen in the 1930s named

Nora and He became it so infatuated with her.

That's he thought that she was his wife. Oh,

that's disappointing They did that too in the

the DCA you or it not in DCA you the new 52 version

Batman basically knocked him off his high horse.

That's really disappointing to me. So they basically

neutered Mr. Freeze in the comics at this point.

They've completely separated him from Nora at

this point. They made him a creeper. Yeah, they

made him a real creep. He's a creep in a suit,

and he has the ability because in the New 52

not delving too much into the comics, he creates

this serum that brings the Court of Owls back

from the dead, which reanimates their cold dead

cells, which he was going to use on Nora. And

Bruce, before Freeze could input it into Nora,

he actually overloaded his own suit. And Batman

is like, you cannot take this woman with you.

She's not actually your wife. You're just a creep.

And locks freeze back up in jail. So that was

pretty much the gist of that. So they've neutered

freeze now. My number three, I'd have to say,

is the Riddler. I like the comic version but

I really like the animated series, the DCAU version.

At least his first interpretation before they

gave him the goofy look and took away the eye

mask. I like the business suit version. Anyways,

I like the voicing that John Glover did and I

like the ruthlessness that he's putting things

out in the open. And it seems like Robin getting

the answers to the riddles more often than Batman

in the Animated series, you know because Robin

is because Riddler is like a Video game toy maker

and Robin's younger and does all that stuff.

So he's figuring it out for Batman a good 85

% of the time My number two I would give to Raish

Al Ghul Because he may not be He's almost at

the same kind of detective skills as Batman.

He can find out whatever he wants. He managed

to infiltrate the Batcave. He managed to mentally

keep his empire going and survive over 500 years.

I like the David Warner version the best as far

as voicing, but I also like his Arkham City version.

just as well that character to me is on a professional

or real -world level I see him as being a threat

to Bruce Wayne so I see him on that that list

and then my number one would be the Joker of

course and this is where I'm going to disagree

with you powers because in most continuities

Not the brave and the bold or the super friends

or DC super friends or stuff like that. The Joker

is a threat Yes, I'll give you the Batman he's

a huge freak and He takes Mark Hamill's a little

bit creepier However the Mark Hamill Joker granted

in the the beginning of Batman animated series

He kind of toyed around with Batman a little

bit, but he also Almost had enough to take the

Joker to take Batman down But again lost in the

end when it hit the new adventures where he he

kind of lost most of you know They went more

playing with him That's where he got goofy, and

there was just really nothing there. Yeah He

had more ability to take down Superman with the

kryptonite thing than he did actually taking

down Batman I mean I guess I guess what I was

talking like I don't see him as a physical threat

because he's more like I'm gonna set a trap and

let Batman fall into it that Batman's gonna figure

it out I I I don't see him going toe -to -toe

in a fight with well if you really wanted well

if you really wanted to He could take down Batman

But as he pointed out in the animated series

You know there is no punchline without Batman

Well, I'm also saying that they've never those

other series besides the Batman and he fudgers

Joker They've never presented him in a way that

he's a fighter It to me. Anyways, I've always

seen him as just like a schemer a planner I'm

gonna set a trap and I've seen him go after like

You know Batman's Associates, but never a bad

man himself. Well, that's because which which

to me just makes me feel like he just He's like

I'm gonna pick on the weak guy cuz I can't take

the big guy. So I this is how I've always seen

him so but he it's it's because I stated he finds

it more entertaining to toy with Batman than

to actually take him down I like to break him

down psychologically to the to his level. Okay,

I guess I understand what yours I I get where

you're coming from and I agree with you but where

I'm talking about a physical threat you're talking

about a psychological threat Yeah, well, he doesn't

have to beat him in a fist fight. That's but

I'm I was talking about physicality Like I just

know this fight. No, he's not going to exactly

I just and he's never the only the only incarnations

for you know being a physical threat were the

Batman and Heath Ledger's Joker games The first

one Arkham Arkham Asylum. Okay, the end of Arkham

Asylum. Yeah There was there's no doubting it

there. He did get in a fistfight with Batman

Well in Arkham City wasn't in any position to

fight with Batman because of the steroids he

took Yeah, well because of the Venom. Yeah, so

I mean it's I'm not disagreeing with what with

what you're saying. I'm just saying the way I've

always interpreted interpreted him. He's more

psychological warfare than Group force, but if

you also look at him in return to the Joker Again

complete hard -ass and that and he does go against

Batman not only psychologically, but physically

as well But it's not Batman proper. It's Terry.

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because

You see that Joker raising up his sleeves. Okay,

if it's a whooping you're wanting. Yeah, but

again, it's not Bruce So I just doesn't matter

years old. I mean the joker isn't gonna you know,

okay, I you got I said we're not understanding

each other here, so let's just move on. I was

just stating that it doesn't matter if it's Bruce

or Terry, he's still a physical threat and a

mental threat. He's still a threat. More so than

half the other rogue's gallery. But anyways.

So moving on to the Bat family or major helping

hands, who would you guys's top five be in that

area? Are there more than five? Well, I mean

For me it would be one particular thing like

he has you know, for instance, I'll I guess I'll

go first kind of you know elaborate Like you

have you have Robin slash Nightwing as one of

his major Sidekicks contributors how it's it's

his most Trusted superhero, you know comrade

That would that would be one of them you have

Alfred who's? Not only his butler, but also is

you know runs for security or gets information

using the Batcave or He you know, basically he

was the pre oracle in some regards You have Batgirl

who's also Depending on the continuity a help

or not so much Then you have like in In in different

continuities like the DCA you and then in the

films you have Lucius Fox which designs his tech

with which Without that you don't have much of

Batman's nifty gear that actually helps him do

what he's setting out to do And then I would

have to say that, you know, Tim Drake is one

of his other major helps up until, you know,

I mean, I'm not counting Damien or anything because

I'm not very experienced with that character

or Jason Todd. I don't know much about him other

than the fact that he died and became Red Hood.

Other is that Damien's a dick. He is and I love

the fact that originally Damien like although

he wasn't named there was a one is a one -off

graphic novel called the son of the demon Where

you know Rajagul is once again trying to get

Batman to you know, hey join my team and My daughter

will be your wife and you'll give me an air and

blah blah blah and basically it ends with this

child, which is supposedly the love child of

Batman and Talia being delivered to this orphanage

with all these jewels draped on him. You know,

that's the son of Batman and for years it was

considered an Elseworlds tale. Like, completely

off the beaten path, but then Grant Morrison

decided to use that and made it canon and making

that child Damian. So... But yeah Damien not

the greatest helper is he no no Bueller Bueller

oh See if mine I think See I can Aside from like

the sidekicks like night I if I did top four

because I can't really think of five number four

would be Tim Drake Robin Because of the way I

love how he's introduced in the comics is he

was smart enough without actually being trained

as a detective to figure out You know who Batman

and Nightwing was and he noticed how nuts Batman

got after Jason Todd was killed by the Joker

and He went on to prove that he may be just as

great if not a greater detective than Batman

Which sadly we won't see because of the new 52

Number three would be Nightwing. Sorry, Brain

Fart. Because, I mean, he's the original Squire

to the Dark Knight. He's the most likely to fall

in his footsteps as much as he wants to do that.

He also wants and has to be his own man. Which

is something I loved about the Nightwing comic

book series is why he moved to Bloodhaven, why...

he was willing to put up with all this crap is

like he wanted to prove himself and gain batman's

approval so just as much as he wants that he

never stops being there for batman and anything

i mean he basically almost got fired from being

a cop in bloodhaven in order to break back into

gotham city during no man's land number three

would be uh oracle slash batgirl Because I was

never a huge fan of the Batgirl character, but

when she became Oracle, you see what she had

to go through, through the killing joke and into

the Birds of Prey comic book series, and how

she grew as a character. And she became just

as powerful as Batman. Her persona of Oracle

is this online, knowing -all, seeing -all entity.

You know, just established her as one of the

greatest forces in the DC Comics universe. So

I mean there's that and of course number one

would have to be mr. Alfred Pennyworth because

He sets Batman's bones. He sews his wounds. He

does that giant penny in the Batcave he deals

with Batman's crap without taking in any of Batman's

crap like he is the gentleman's gentleman and

If you think about it, you need somebody like

that if you're running out there a costume in

the dead of night beating up criminals and coming

back home You need somebody that's willing to

do all that and still be there for you so That's

my favorite helpers Mike's Where are we which

one which Mike doesn't matter you can go well

I have to agree with JT about Alfred being number

one on my list for the same reasons. Number two,

when it comes to the Robins, I've always been

partial to Tim Drake because I think that was

the first time Robin ever had a cool looking

outfit. I just remember collecting the Robin

2 comics when I was a kid. I even had like a

Robin action figure and I actually thought it

was a cooler figure than The the Batman figure

at the time I've always been fascinated by the

different incarnations of bad girl except the

one that I actually like the most and I'm only

Maybe you can help me out here JT because I've

heard you mentioned the no man's land thing a

few times There's a bad girl that they introduced

in that that's deaf. Oh, she wasn't deaf like

you called earlier when I was talking to like

some of my favorite Batman stories that David

Kane guy who framed Bruce Wayne for murder. Well,

he more or less adopted this. I think she was

Vietnamese, this Asian girl, very, very young.

She hadn't quite learned to speak yet and basically

trained her so hard and well that she. It's not

that she couldn't speak, she could hear, but

she reads body language. So she knows what you're

gonna do like a split second before you do it.

And for the longest time she didn't talk and

eventually she learned to talk and so on and

so forth. Okay, see I am only aware of that incarnation

of Batgirl from the No Man's Land novel. And

I always thought that was a really cool take

on the character. But I've always... I've always

liked the different incarnations like Barbara

Gordon and the different looks. The red hair

is kind of hot. Who doesn't love the ginger?

Yeah. I'll throw Catwoman in there when she's

actually, you know, the other days of the week

when she's actually, you know, being an anti

-hero more so than a thief or a villain. True.

She just I and I also really like I think it's

the Jim Lee look for a catwoman where she's got

the giant goggles Yeah, that kind of comes from

the Darwin Cook series as well. I like a lot

better Yeah, I thought that was a really good

look for her. I Don't know I don't think there's

anyone else I could really I've never really

liked it Grayson. I just I don't know, or Nightwing

for that matter. Blasphemy. I don't know, I couldn't.

You're fired. That's fine, you can fire me. Oh

no, I think nobody likes everybody. I should

mention that Dick Grayson in Under the Red Hood

was voiced by NPH, which made it that much more

awesome. I have to agree there. Just wish I know

it'll never happen, but I want a Nightwings cartoon

with Lauren Lester as the voice, but anyway Hmm

for me Again have to agree number one has to

be Alfred Number two I'm gonna put Barbara there

No, I would have to say it's it's number two

and number three are number two's Richard Grayson

number three is Tim Drake I really loved in TAS

and New Adventures how they changed over from

Dick Grayson to Tim Drake and yes while Dick

Grayson is essentially the logical choice as

far as the mantle of Batman I do agree he needs

to be his own man as well and that that was essentially

said in in old wounds I mean now he punched Batman

right in the face number four would probably

be Barbara Gordon Batgirl more so the Tara Strong

version in the cartoons and then Number five,

I'm actually gonna put a twist on it. Bruce and

Selena's love story. Like if they could actually

have a love story, that's what I would pick.

Anyways, I think we'll go to one last break and

then come back with final thoughts and call it

a night. He's ripping me off! A protest! Yeah!

I'll sue! Then I'll rip his lungs out! And I

will too! You always were the perfect specimen,

detective. Even old age has not softened you

as much as I had feared. I should have known

you'd cheat death again, Raish. I don't cheat

death, I master it. Though I assure you, this

time my longevity comes at a price most dear.

Talia. I did indeed survive our last battle,

but my body was broken far beyond the pit's powers

to heal. In order to save my life, I called upon

Talia to undertake the ultimate act of loyalty.

You sacrificed her. Your own daughter. I did

what I had to do. At the time, this computer

could only imprint my thoughts and memories on

a close genetic match. But now, this youthful

form has served its purpose. I must move on to

a new host body. Yours. Sure, Rache. Why not?

Anything to hold off the Grim Reaper another

few seconds. I take it back. You don't cheat

death. You whimper in fear of it. Silence! And

you hit like a girl. And we're back with the

last part for the night. What are your guys'

final thoughts on everything Batman? JT? Batman

is, was, and always will be in my top three favorite,

you know, superheroes slash detective, you know,

of all time. And while there's usually it's,

you know, him, Batman or Batman, Spider -Man

and Superman, that changes every so often. But

he's always in that top three like that because

he's so awesome. I mean, like I said at the beginning,

it's such a simple origin. Such a simple motivating

force, but you can do so much with so little

it's awesome I mean the cartoons the movies the

comics the toys the video games everything comes

from this simple premise of a boy who wants his

mom and dad back and How could you not love something

like that? So that's my opinion on Batman Mike

At three with JT, I think the the character Makes

just for really good storytelling. It's a it's

a perfect vehicle to tell Just about any kind

of story you want and the fact that they can

Well DC seems like they can change up their universe

on a whim To accommodate stories that they want

to tell just makes it that much easier Or just

erase 70 years of continuity. There you go. But

you know, there's a lot of people There's a lot

of people that think give them like another six,

seven months and they'll change everything back

to the way that it was. I don't necessarily see

that. They've done it before. Everybody does

it. They go back to the original numbering and

they bring all the books back. My theory is this

is the Heroes Reborn of DC and if they ever do

decide to chuck it, this is going to be one of

the 52 alternate realities of DC Comics. Yeah,

I mean I I don't know the whole DC Comics discussion

thing is so though for another time But yeah,

I like the character. I've always liked the character

makes for great toys and I like I said, I like

the more modern movies and I'm interested to

see what DC Comics does with him in terms of

movies going forward So just as I just look forward

to more of it Steve Overall, I would say Batman

is, for one, it's always been my favorite. It

always will be one of my favorites. It's such

a great story, whether you have some incident

with family and you can relate to some of it

or even not. It's always an entertaining story.

There are some dull moments, but that's with

anything. But Batman is one of those timeless,

ever -going stories that I don't see ever fading

from the limelight. And obviously it's worked

wonders for DC, not only in animation but in

feature film, over any of the other heroes. He

still manages to draw in the money. Yeah, well,

that's because between him and Superman that's

really all DC has when it comes to live -action

film cuz let's face it Green Lantern was a pile

of green shit. Well Green Lantern, like I said,

yeah good as the villain. Yeah for me I I think

it's I Think I wrote it up in the description

of this episode. I Don't care who you are. I

don't care where you live Somewhere on this earth,

every single person has been affected in some

way or another by some form of Batman in media,

whether it be comics, whether it be television

shows, whether it be film, whether it be animation,

whether it be video games, whether it be music,

that's kind of one thing we didn't really touch

on, was the music, because... You know the films

have the Danny Elfman stuff the animated series

and the DCAU has the Shirley Walker and her crew

stuff It's just absolutely amazing Everyone has

their version of Batman that they like and that's

all well and good and you know, here's to another

75 years Here here Yep So With that we will close

it out. So Thank you for joining us for this

geek cast radio special on all things Batman

you can contact our Batman ink panel on Twitter

at Myself is at scp -21 Mike TFT on Mike At GT

from Saskatoon At booth ninja 81 so stay tuned

guys for next month when we do TMNT week in celebration

for the new show. So for now, I've been Steve

Megatron Phillips with... JFJ and Mike. JT from

Saskatoon. Mike Powers from XRG and The Lunchroom.

Thanks for listening, guys, and catch you next

time. Technical difficulties. Let's move on,

shall we?