Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Review

This is The Brain, and you're listening to the

Geekcast Radio Network. Yes! Today on episode

88 of The Cinema Geeks... We discuss why it might

be time to get excited about the next Predator

film. We react to who could possibly be in the

next Tomb Raider. And in our main attraction,

we give you an in -depth look at Batman vs. Superman,

Dawn of Justice. All that and more coming up

on episode 88 with The Cinema Geeks. Superman

got That's right, it's another episode of The

Cinema Geeks, and as you heard in the intro,

we have three Cinema Geeks with us today. I am

one of them, Optimus Solo. Joining me is Move

Your Volt Dan, hello. Hey, how's it going? Not

too bad, and Amanda Hard Candy Mandy, hello.

Yo. Yo, she says. I'm coming at you a little

bit later than normally planned, but hey, we

wanted to have time to read every other review

that's been written on Batman vs Superman Dawn

of Justice to take it all in, the backlash, the

defense, the commentary about it, and then give

you our in -depth look at that. So it's not late

to the party, it's just more educated about the

party. We wanted DC and Marvel both to pay us

as much money as possible to see who ended up

paying us more. That's the side we would come

on, I guess. Exactly. Pretty much. But before

we can get to that, we're going to get into a

couple quick news stories like we normally do.

As we teased in the opening, some news and rumors

on the front of the Predator film, which we've

teased a little bit for quite a few months now,

actually. Basically, there was a story that came

out that kind of shed a little bit more light

on what kind of tone this one might have and

what we could expect possibly for the next Predator

film. And it basically came through an article

where Shane Black discussed how Fox was able

to convince him to be a part of this new Predator

film. For those of you that don't know, Shane

Black obviously... has done a lot of writing

on different films. He also directed Kiss Kiss

Bang Bang, Iron Man 3, and is in line now to

do this next Predator film. Dan, I think for

those people that have followed the Alien franchise,

but more specifically the Predator franchise,

I mean, we had those first couple films that

were, you know, big in the 80s, big blockbuster

films, and then it kind of spun off into the

way that a lot of films do once you get to the

third, fourth, fifth, or whatever installment

where they become less and less... glitz and

glamour, a lot less money behind them, eventually

go the route of direct to video or on -demand,

that type of thing. And it seems like they're

really kind of putting their time into this next

Predator film. It's not going to be just installment

number, whatever number we're on. It's going

to seem to be something that they actually put

a little money and time behind, according to

this article at least. That's one reason why

Shane Black at first was not keen on doing this

project was because he didn't want to do just

another. He's kind of seen the track record of

the last few, you know, the Alien vs. Predator

and all those types of films and wasn't really

interested in it until they kind of told him

that they were going to put the money behind

it. They were going to put the people behind

it and let this be as big scale as possible.

What do you think about this as far as how it

bodes for the next Predator film, which is slated

to open March 2nd, 2018? That's the only kind

of thing that comes to my mind. It's like is

this Is his style really going to translate well

because he's definitely known for his more comedic

Angle, you know the way he can incorporate and

play with different tropes of genre. I don't

know for his Complete phenomenal group pornography.

So if he did something similar, I could be mistaken

But I'm one of the weird people maybe I did kind

of like predators like that one was decent. It

wasn't You know, I wouldn't put it up there with

the first one, but it's it had its moments But

I think it's good that they're actually going

out and getting a known director a known commodity

and not just you know I think the the other guy

the guy who directed the last predators was just

a friend of Robert Rodriguez or something like

that So I'm glad they're actually at least taking

time and getting someone who can at least provide

an interest at least has a background that is

pretty strong for the most part, so that has

me interested. And Amanda, you know, they also

mentioned in the article that with Deadpool coming

out this year, obviously, and kind of, at least

for some people saying, hey, rating, putting

something with a rating, an R rating on it's

not necessarily going to be the end of things

that can be successful. Do you think this Predator

version will be able to revitalize the brand?

Or what's your level of excitement? You like

Shane Black. You like Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and

some of the other stuff you've seen from Shane

Black. Do you think it's a good match for him

in the next Predator film? I did enjoy some of

his other work. I think that'll be interesting

to see where this new Predator movie goes. I

am all in already, so I'm just hoping that...

You don't need anything to get you excited for

it. Yeah, I'm just hoping that he can put out

a decent film here and get people really re -excited

about it. Alright, so we'll have to wait and

see how that turns out. We only have a couple

years to wait for that one. In another movie

-related news here, we teased in the opener as

far as the next Tomb Raider film, and there's

a lot of articles, Dan, that have been circulating

about the possibility of the next Tomb Raider

being helmed by none other than Daisy Ridley

from Star Wars The Force. awakens. What are your

thoughts on another Tomb Raider and Daisy Ridley

possibly being involved in that? It's more so

that she said that she wants to do it. I don't

know if anybody's actually approached her, but

she's been very outspoken about being interested

in playing that character. Well, I mean, that

way we get to at least add some more to our video

game marathon that we're doing, so we got that

going for us. I can kind of see it. I mean, it's

legitimately the only thing I know her from,

like most people with Star Wars, and I thought

she was great in that, so... Ten as often happens

you get the person who breaks, you know breaks

through with a movie and then they get attached

to other things and I do think there's some tumorator

could be a good movie I have not seen the actual

Terminator films. I don't know how great job

Angelina Jolie did with those or you know, they're

worth revisiting I mean, it's a and I know the

I guess the newer games have more story I don't

know like I have never really played Tomb Raider,

but I I'm all for seeing more Daisy Ridley and

other things, so yeah, why not? Go for it. I

mean, I don't know if you've played more Tomb

Raider than the rest of us, but I know you've

seen those films and are more familiar with Angelina

Jolie in that role. Do you think that's something

that Daisy Ridley could pull off in a different

version of that character or not the right choice?

Yeah, maybe. It's definitely going to be a different

feel than maybe what Angelina Jolie brought.

Like, she kind of had that... raw, exotic, sex

appeal kind of thing, where I think Daisy Ridley

is a little bit more on the awkward kind of side

of things. I did play some Tomb Raider on the

PC back in the Dizze, and I've seen all the movies.

I really enjoy the Angel and Jolie ones, but

they do have kind of a high cheesy factor, so

maybe if they put a little serious touch on it,

she could be, you know, a more serious, serious

Lara Croft, but she doesn't have the sex appeal.

That's kind of her thing, too. Alright, and I

know nothing about them. I will be exposed to

them short, you know at some point over the course

of our video game Series, so we'll have to wait

and I'll hold my thoughts until then a couple

other news stories We had we pushed our record

of this episode a few days to accommodate for

scheduling in the meantime a few other news stories

came out that I wanted to throw at you guys see

what you think News about a saw reboot so rebooting

the saw not just another saw film but a reboot

and the article is stating that Jigsaw will be

played by Bob Saget. Was this released on April

1st by any chance? I hope that's a joke, but

I didn't look into any of April Fool's High Jigs,

so maybe it is, maybe it's not, but that was

a news story that came out. If that was legit,

Dan does that. mean anything for the Saw franchise

or has it been played out? I think it's been

played out to begin with. I mean he's a creepy

dude so he's got that going for him. I could

actually see him doing like Serial Killer pretty

well. I just don't necessarily know if we need

another horror reboot. I feel like geez I mean

it's not that surprising but it's like come on

now like I don't even know how. I like the first

Saw and some of the Saw's but Circular Saw. Seasaw

was really good. But no, I don't know. It just

seems weird. I would say no. Let's not. Amanda,

do you echo that or are you all about Bob Sagan

and the Saw universe? I don't even know. I don't

think that people would take it as seriously.

I think they would see it just as some kind of

way to poke fun at it. I think that it would

definitely delegitimize the franchise. Maybe

it's a neighbor fool's joke and they got me,

I don't know. We'll have to wait and see on that

one. Another news story coming out about another

sequel, but not in any type of franchise film,

not a horror film, not a comic book film, not

a science fiction film, but one of the films

that was touted very highly by a lot of people

in 2015, and that news story is that there will

be a Sicario 2. And it will bring back Emily

Blunt, Josh Brolin, and Benicio del Toro. No

word yet on if Denis Villeneuve will be involved

or not. Amanda, Sicario 2? Needed or not? I think

that maybe it wasn't needed, but it would be

cool to go back in that world. I feel like the

way it ended really kind of did the whole movie

justice. I liked how it ended. But it would be

cool to get back in that world again and see.

what moves forward from where they left off.

Dan, do you agree or disagree? I don't know,

like, it's hard to say. I never, at the end of

that film, thought I could go for a sequel. If

Dennis Faville and the Wave, I can't say that

name, I apologize, is coming back, I would be

probably more for it. I do think there's probably

more story there, and there's, you know, a lot

you can delve into further because of what the

cartel is, you know, or just that there's a lot

to... There I don't think it would be a stretch

that can continue that story and I think even

the Emily Blunt character There's a lot more

that can be said for her So I I want to be against

it But it'll be based upon who they're getting

to direct because that'd be my fear that he wouldn't

be coming back And I'm really surprised by the

bottom line though. It just seems yeah I saw

this I saw the article pop up and I'm like what

like that seems odd but like a sequel to spotlight

but that's still happening at the moment but

don't need sequels for anything but uh... yet

let's get into uh... a little bit more in the

realm of uh... geeky related news with one last

final news story i don't know if you guys saw

this or not but aria stark i can never say her

name right mazie williams but aria stark from

a game of thrones has been cast in the the new

mutants uh... an x -men I believe that's a film.

I don't think that's an actual series. I think

that's going to be a new film coming out as Wolfsbane.

Dan, you're probably the most knowledgeable when

it comes to comic books. I don't know if you're

familiar with the New Mutants or with Wolfsbane

as a character. I know you are familiar with

Arya Stark. What do you think about that casting?

I'm curious how that would do because Wolfsbane

is kind of... Basically, it's called werewolf

like completely like that's the character new

mutants They're they're kind of like a spinoff

of in a way of x -men their mutants and they

later become x -force which are like Imagine

like if GI Joe the x -men had a baby. That's

kind of like And that's where cable and that's

actually new mutants is where Deadpool first

came out But it's hard to say it was being such

a I don't know if she's kind of like a no -nothing

character. Nothing really she's more of a concept

in a character i would say uh casting was fine

i'm just curious if they're going to make her

look like the actual comic because like i said

it's like a doing a werewolf type of thing, and

I guess it could work, I don't know. It'd be

like a, almost like a take off of the way they

do Mystique, like how she would have to be like

full body makeup the entire time, but... I think

Game of Thrones already started the process,

right? Like they're already starting to turn

her into something else that's not human. I'm

seeing lots of images and stuff from the next

season that seem like they're going... Yeah,

I'm sure she'll become a dragon or something.

She'll probably die too, because that's usually

the... after right after the transformation is

complete. Amanda, what do you think about this

new mutants and more X -Men characters and storylines,

et cetera? All about more mutants, so bring them

on. I'll judge as I see them. No problem seeing

Arya Stark as a werewolf? No, not at all. I think

it'll be pretty cool. All right. So that does

it for the news for this week. We're going to

take a quick break and come back with a Hefty

review of Batman vs Superman, Dawn of Justice.

You'll have to wait and see where we fall in

the realm of the critiques that have been dished

out on this film. So we'll be right back after

the break. We talk. Hello Julie, what the heck

are you doing? Trying to make our spot sound

more exciting by adding explosions Yeah, I'm

pretty sure you could have got the point across

with sound effects. Not the real thing Download

this show on iTunes or if simplistic reviews

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Mandy and we just wanted to let you guys know

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As I said, it's time to talk about Batman versus

Superman, Dawn of Justice. Everybody's been talking

about it. Most people have probably seen it by

now. So we'll do our best to do it justice, no

pun intended. But every pun intended. But every

pun intended. Amanda, we'll start with you this

week. Now... Just an opening I just like to get

your general level of excitement when as you're

going into it What kind of expectations did you

have going in and just give us your your general

thoughts going out on? How you felt about the

movie overall before we get into too many specifics.

I think that I had a mild excitement going into

it just because I feel like I've been waiting

forever so when the time actually came for me

to be able to see this movie I couldn't fathom

that it was actually here and and ready for me

to view so I didn't didn't get too nuts we did

see it in a pretty packed theater but it wasn't

like an opening night crowd so people weren't

really dressed up or going nuts or anything like

that but I think this movie made me ask why a

lot of you know especially about like character

motivations and things but I think it really

set the stage for me as far as what awesome stuff

I should be looking forward to as far as the

DC stuff that's coming out and I think I might

have finally figured out if I like Marvel or

DC a little bit more as far as this movie universe

goes. Interesting, I'm interested to see more

on what you're saying there and dissect that

a little bit. Dan, what about you? Your review

is available on the website, so some people may

have read that, but what was your excitement

level going in and general thoughts coming out?

Well, I feel like we talked about it a lot, but

I feel like it's this movie we've been discussing.

It legitimately have been for like years, about

years, for about three years now. I was still

somewhat excited. The second trailer did really

bug me a great deal, not because I thought it

looked bad, but just because I figured it completely

ruined the movie and we'll get to it. I think

it kind of did. Well, not completely, but I think

it was unnecessary. for many reasons. But I was

holding out hope. I really wanted to like this

movie. I had issues with Man of Steel, but overall

I came down positive on that film. And I like

some of Zack Snyder's films. Some of them I don't,

but some of them I do. So I was really hoping

that this would be good. I figured worst -case

scenario would be along the same lines as Man

of Steel. Best -case scenario would be a great...

the new norm for great comic book movies. But

yeah, so I was hoping, but I was also somewhat

pessimistic based upon some of the trailers and

obviously it was hard to avoid just the feedback

the movie got immediately after release. So I

was just hoping maybe that I would still like

it. Yeah, I was definitely a little scared from

hearing all the negative stuff, but I didn't

let them shit on my parade. I definitely was

still excited about this movie. I think I must

have gone in with the least amount of excitement

out of the three of us. Dan, I'm like you a little

bit. I think I came down generally positive on

Man of Steel. I didn't have the same issues that

some people had with it. I mean, it wasn't necessarily

like my favorite comic book film of all time

or anything. But if I was saying if I came down

positive or negative, it would have been on the

positive side. But I just... I had no excitement

going into this film. That doesn't mean I was

wanting to hate it or looking to hate it or anything

like that. I just was very much ready to be disappointed,

I guess, in a way. I wasn't going to be surprised

if it let me down. But I've never been a big

Superman fan at all. Mild Batman fan, so that

helps a little bit. But yeah, my excitement level

was probably the lowest out of all of us. And

man, coming out of that film... I almost needed

to like run to get like a piece of paper and

a pen to start writing down every single one

of the problems I had with it because there's

a whole bunch of stuff wrong with this film that

we're definitely going to get into but it you

know we talked about all the negative reviews

that were coming out right away and I think it

lived up to every single one of those so to give

me a little bit of a spoiler look as to how my

takes gonna be on the film but it's not it wasn't

a good reaction coming out so alright so let's

start getting into it a little bit now that we

know kind of where we were coming into the story

with. And I just got a couple bullet points that

I want to jump off of all of you guys and then

give you guys some chance to react freely. But

let's break it down little by little because

we've heard, we've read a lot of reviews, I've

listened to a lot of podcasts on that and I kind

of want to get your guys take on some of the

issues that they bring up both as a positive

and a negative that I've heard multiple people

bring up. Dan, start with you on this first one,

but obviously we begin the film rehashing the

origin story of Batman and the Bruce Wayne and

his parents etc and what happens there a lot

of people have been bringing up that it was a

necessary piece to link to things that happen

later on in the film and that there's a payoff

involved and that's the reason why that has to

take place and others who were very annoyed by

the fact that they had to sit through and watch

the origin story yet again even though most people

on planet earth should know it by now even if

you're not a comic book fan. What did you think

of the inclusion of that aspect of the film?

I guess I expected it maybe again that's part

of doing the news knowing that there is uh that

Jeffery D Morgan was cast as Thomas Wayne so

I kind of knew going in was going to be there

so I expected it to wasn't you know I I do think

it's a little bit unnecessary but I would say

I overall I like that sequence I think it's a

great looking sequence um and I wasn't I felt

you know it at least enjoyed it for the most

part until flying bats and that was weird and

like this is that was the first sign of things

that this is not going well but i i i kind of

understand the complaint of saying do we really

need batman's origin again i would i don't know

i i'm just glad it wasn't like it was too extended

i think the issue was uh when they kind of kept

going back to it here and there throughout the

movie but the opening on that I was okay with

it, mostly because I just assumed it was gonna

happen, unfortunately. I agree with you, I think

visually it was well done. I think we're gonna

hear that a lot throughout maybe the rest of

our review. The visual aspect of this film is

not necessarily one of the big problems for it

at all. Amanda, we looked at each other in the

theater when those bats are carrying young Bruce

up, and if that had not been a dream sequence,

that was almost... I almost would have lost.

Shit you look done with it. I was like I am ready

to walk out right now if that was legit I mean

yes, it was a dream sequence so yeah jokes on

me I guess it's not real so I can forgive them

somewhat But it's still to open with that imagery

and just the eye rolling aspect of it was was

not good for me So that was the only aspect of

the visual part of that that I didn't like was

that was the bats carrying him up? Amanda though

what was your reaction to it as far as seeing

the origin story of that again? Do you think

it was necessary or not? I was asking myself

why the fuck do we need to see this again and

the moment where they say it's kind of like the

payoff is how it's kind of earned I was like

okay once they see that I could kind of click

together later on I'm like okay well that's why

they put that in there but I really didn't need

it I think I needed them to focus more on the

setup of setting the stage of what part of Bruce's

life he's in. I feel like he's more, I mean obviously

he's a little bit aged. He's supposed to be an

older Batman. All we see though is like a little

bit of gray hair and you don't get the feel of

his shift from that origin story kind of feel

to what he would be like now as an older Bruce

Wayne slash Batman. I think that he is portrayed

a little bit more like the Thomas Wayne and like

the alternate universe or whatever when I think

it was like Bruce and Martha died and Thomas

lived he was like a killing Batman so I feel

like he kind of was more generally you're getting

like geek credit all over the place and you're

way more knowledgeable at whatever you're talking

about than I am I feel like that was the what

I was getting out of it but they didn't do a

good enough job setting up his life as over Batman

he was just buff Batman with some gray hair who

kills people. Now Dan granted in that first opening

sequence with the the parents dying or whatever

it was probably more character development for

Batman than we got with Superman in two whole

films but what do you think about what she's

saying did we miss some of the middle section

did there need to be not just a flashback to

his to the parents dying but something to get

us to where he goes from the traditional Batman

that a lot of people kind of know just in the

general public to this older, kind of more curmudgeonly

portrayed Batman, or were you fine with the transition

to that? I thought there were, it probably could

have been explored more, there were clues here

and there where you saw the spray paint on Rama's

costume, the mansion was burnt out, so obviously

it was the guy who has gone through some things,

we don't know necessarily what. Was the thing

I got a complaint throughout that word does feel

like there's a lot We're like we skipped a movie

or something like that going through and you're

like wait. There's something else here I I felt

I maybe because I was just in my mind connecting

this to Dark Knight returns where I just Felt

like it was just a Batman who was doing for 20

years and has gone through a lot I thought I

was giving enough on Batman side to least have

a basic understanding of his morals, but I did

feel the the length in which as he was going

in like the levels of violence he was inflicting

did seem odd to me and I didn't necessarily feel

like that was ever really justified as much as

the film wanted it to be. So skipped a movie

perhaps as in we didn't have standalone films

for Batman, Wonder Woman, etc. to set up the

whole universe. That or it feels like in a way

maybe their original idea when this came out

was that this was supposed to be you know the

the Christian Bale Batman. That was maybe the

idea where this is a Batman who maybe was retired

for a period of time, but had to come back after

what he saw with happened with Superman or something

like that. I know they've been trying to do the...

some of these storylines forever. Even remember

back when, like, I Am Legend came out, they had

that teaser poster in the background in New York,

you know, where people were talking about it,

and they've been talking about doing the Death

of Superman story since it happened in the 90s

as well. And it does feel like it's a script

that has been on the shelves for a long time,

and people kind of took things out, put things

in, and I think that, like I said, I feel like

in a lot of ways this was designed originally

with the idea that maybe this would be in the

Nolan verse in some way. Maybe I'm mistaken,

but it does feel like that at times. Yeah, go

ahead, Amina. I think, though, with the fact

that we don't have all these pieces filled in,

we just have little glimpses of things that have

happened, traumas or whatever that's happened

in his life, it really enticed me to see, to

want to see more of it. I think that all these

little snippets of, I like seeing Robin's costumes

repainted and things like that, I'm just like,

it made me... Even more excited to see Suicide

Squad and to see this other stuff coming on I

feel like a lot of times in this movie something

like that happened to where this movie is more

like a setup movie but I think it did it well

in Its job to get me excited and make me want

to see more not just leaving me with all these

gaps If they ever do fill in the gaps, I guess

would be the caveat there Which I don't know

if they're just gonna move on and go past that

which would still leave a lot of stuff Not connected

for me the immediate gut reaction of seeing the

origin story of Batman was the same as you and

me. I was like, do I really need to see this

again? And I think part of that was I knew I

was going into a two and a half hour film and

seeing anything that I already knew seemed like,

hey... this is how this could not have been two

and a half hours but that was just my initial

reaction I mean maybe there are some connections

to stuff later on but like I said I think most

of us know it but I think Danny made a great

point if they had just had not that it had to

be Christian Bale I guess but if that was connected

straight to that universe that it would make

a lot more sense to kind of jump into that I

think and we talked a little bit about the opening

with the dream sequence of him being lifted up

by the bat Dream sequences and flashbacks seem

to be a recurring theme in this film. We got

quite a few different From both the side of Batman

as well as Superman where they're flashing back

or seeing different visions Amanda do you think

that was overdone or do you think they had a

nice balance of? The flashbacks in order to fill

in some of these gaps that we're talking about

I'm not sure I know that Superman in the comics

did like like vision of his father and like all

this other stuff you know in the time surrounding

when his death was was closed or like when it

was happening or whatever so maybe that was something

they were trying to throw in to to keep in line

with the comics i'm not really sure why you know

we needed him but maybe it was just kind of to

to move along the um the direction of where the

characters were supposed to be going as far as

like where their decisions were taking them and

their thought processes. Dan, we have, like I

said, a lot of dream sequence, even to the point

where we almost went inception with the dream

sequence inside of a dream sequence. It seemed

like... That would trip me out. Do you think

it was overdone or how did it fit in with the

rest of the movie? Was it giant at all for you?

I felt it was... I don't know if it was overdone,

but I felt it wasn't placed very well because

it felt... Like uh, linking up and like one's

gonna come at when he's downloading a file He's

gonna fall asleep and have a vision or and their

visions I think then like are they visions or

are they like some sort of insight into the future

because there are like things and hints to characters

like dark side and there are things superman

says and the one vision within Batman which batman

wouldn't necessarily wouldn't like why would

he say that in a batman vision because he's a

kind of referencing people that batman doesn't

even know so it's Like I said, similar with like

the opening, like it looked great, but I think

the practicality of them and how they felt forced

at times. And it just, at times it'd be like,

I'd rather watch that movie that you're presenting

to me than the one I'm watching right now. And

the Superman one, like the one he had of his

father, just, again, that just seems like, I

was like, why is this, like that one I didn't,

that one felt the most off the wall because it,

I couldn't. I'm like, why is this happening?

You had to pay Kevin Costner to be in your film

for that. I feel like that's a Zack Snyder thing

too, because I think he... He uses that as a

crutch a lot, the dream sequence. He's done it

in 300. Like, Sucker Punch is just one gigantic

dream sequence made into a movie, and I think

he uses it because he's like, well, if it's a

dream sequence, I can kind of do what I want,

make things look cool, and really don't have

to justify anything, and things can kind of make

no sense. And it's okay, because it's a dream,

and I feel like he's gone to that way too much.

And, you know, maybe these are things that'll

fill in later, like we said with Batman, but

for the film that I'm watching... Considering

what is lacking, this isn't really answering

a lot of the issues that I have. If you remove

these dream sequences, for the most part, I think

you're not gonna affect the film at all. For

the positive or negative, it's just gonna be,

if anything, you can maybe develop more time

into flushing out some of these characters. But

I just think they're, again, they look great,

but they don't really function beyond much more

than that. And it's almost like it could've been

something like you have your initial cut of the

film, the four or five hour... cut and then you

start editing it down it seems like some of the

stuff would have been the stuff that could have

been left on that you know like a a director

that maybe has a little bit more ability to to

leave things out would have found some of these

things to say well that's not it like you say

it's not affecting the overall film I can cut

a little bit here cut a little bit there and

make a more for a more fluid story it just seemed

like somebody along the way wasn't wasn't able

to do that and we have a lot of pieces here that

don't necessarily seem like they're pivotal to

the overall film that are they're left in the

final product and hey we got like a what is it

a three hour rated r cut that's going to be on

the blu -ray so hopefully the 30 minutes is an

apology i don't think so with the way that he's

coming through the defense of this film the the

one feature sequence that kind of bugged me the

most was like the one within the funeral and

like that that one just seemed really kind of

ridiculous especially the way it ended i'm just

like i don't know if this is this is telling

me nothing like that That one was kind of just

like, okay, let's let's let's take it down a

few pegs. Yeah, I agree with you on that one

I'm getting into Batman a little bit more since

we've been talking about him a lot before we

turn the page to some other people Another thing

that a lot of people had issue with obviously

is not just bad I don't think a lot of people

had an issue with Batman being older being a

little more seasoned maybe a little bit more

what's the word I'm trying to think of pessimistic

about the world and people in it, but I don't

think that was problem that a lot of people had

but the violence that he is doling out I think

a lot of people are pointing to of being somewhat

uncharacteristic of Batman I guess similar arguments

were made about Superman and Man of Steel which

I didn't have as big of a problem with but here

it seems like there's kind of a conflicting nature

to this story and Amanda you brought this up

as far as the the branding of some of the individuals

and then kind of putting that against some of

those scenes where he is fighting a big group

and ends up obviously killing one of them. He's

snapping motherfuckers' necks. And he feels the

need to brand people so they get killed in prison?

So you think only one's needed? If you're branding

people so someone else is going to take care

of it, you don't need to kill them yourself?

Yeah, but at the same time, if you're willing

to just snap people's necks and shoot everybody

possible... I don't know why you would need to

brand people. You would just dole out your own

justice. And I think that him marking people

so justice will play out as it will beyond that

doesn't really make sense to me. Well, I can

see that. If that's how they're going to play

the character where he's to the point where he's

letting other people decide what to do with these

people, but he's marking them, I think that's

still somewhat... And I don't have the background

in the Batman's character to say if that serves

his character justice or not. But I can see that

more if that's what he's doing and not also killing

people. But when he's doing both, it seems to

be somewhat of a contradiction. And my biggest

problem with that whole group fight is he...

In the dream sequence? When he's got the trench

coat on? I'm talking about the one sequence where

he has beat up, like, seven or eight different

guys. He's just murking people. But no, he's

beat them all up. He hasn't killed any of them,

I don't think, at that point. And then he gets

to the last guy, and everybody else is already

out cold. And doesn't he stab him or something,

or shoot him? He got stabbed, and so he stabbed

the dude back. It just seemed like, at that point,

you've already taken out everybody else. He should

be able to take that guy out without killing

him. But I'll let you guys go first. do you know

what did you think about the characterization

of batman as a as i guess killing machine but

i i didn't mind that it was more violence i felt

like that was because of doctor returns he's

very much like that is much more violent and

uh... the killing does kind of it is but in a

sense of like that's like that means one rule

in the reason that matters because it comes with

a character like the joker then it's like why

he just kill him because he is more justification

killing him than he does that's like that whole

you know the whole thing he goes through with

a character like that so I that did kind of bothered

me in the sense of like it just like once he

goes through that line once he kills someone

like for that character it does seem like it's

you know it's something crossing a line he's

never going to be able to cross and like again

when you come to like he's supposed to be in

a suicide squad movie or if there's a batman

movie then you really have that you know that

debate that he wouldn't sometimes go through

about killing Joker or not. Though to be fair,

if you do go back and watch some of the older

Batman films, he does kill like all the time.

Like the Michael Keaton, he and Batman like legitimately

like blows a dude up, like throws a grenade in

his pants, like throws him away. Like that guy's

dead. So it's not uncommon for Batman to kill

people in the movies, but especially like in

the older films. But I think he's much involved

as the character since then and even, you know,

in the Nolan films, he made a point not to kill

though. argued kind of kills Liam Neeson in Batman

Begins, I don't know. But yeah, I did have an

issue with it because it just, even him and Superman,

it just seemed like they were superheroes not

acting very superhero -y. Yeah, well I think

the point that I was trying to make though is

that I wouldn't have a problem with him killing

someone, I don't think, if it was a situation

like... That there was no other alternative I

guess which is a lot of people's defense for

the man of steel But yeah, like I didn't mind

it to man of steel because I felt like it was

a situation where like he Either he kills them

or those people die and now it wasn't it didn't

it felt more like yeah It's a little easier to

just kill him like that felt like this movie

where he kind of he's kind of done something

else It's like, you know what? Yeah, he's got

a fire flamethrower on he kind of deserves to

die. So Yeah, it was just more of the There's

alternate methods at this point. It wasn't a

situation where he's backed into a corner. He's

just deciding to kill people. So like you said,

it kind of takes some of the weight away from

the moral dilemma if he comes across a situation

where he has to decide to kill or not kill. Amanda,

any other thoughts on Batman's characterization

with that before we move on to the next point?

I do think that Ben Affleck did a really good

job here. I think he got buff as fuck for this.

I was shocked. Did have a little Rocky training

montage workout scene. Didn't know that we really

needed that, but I think that it showed him as

like an actual contender. I mean he knew that

he was weak compared to Superman, so he had to

do something to feel more capable and I like

that he would kind of come in with that you know

the Arkham Asylum video game feels where he kind

of just swoops down and just beats the the snot

out of everybody. I thought that was super cool

and I did enjoy how violent it got. I liked it

so I think that he did kind of a good job and

and on top of it with the opening scene where

he you see him trying to To get to the point

where he can rescue people when in though that

the Superman versus Zod fights is going on. I

think that Did the most to set up his viewpoint

on Superman than anything else in the movie.

You segue pretty good into another point here

because we do get to see a tie -in to Man of

Steel directly as we kind of go backwards and

see where Batman is during that time period,

which kind of sets up the whole scenario of Batman

and Superman being in the same world. Dan, how

do you think the Man of Steel tie -in was handled

seeing Batman kind of in that position while

Superman and Zod are fighting and kind of to

go along with that the the inherent motivation

now for batman to dislike superman as we set

up this film i like really like that sequence

actually i thought it was really well done i

thought it looked great um even the you know

the sequence of him like running into the cloud

where everyone's running away uh just it looked

i don't know it did end at a great deal realism

to this crazy event where it did feel like wow

i'm really there seeing these uh this this craziness

occur and I think that was actually Sean IMAX

and it looked looked like you know, I think they

took advantage of it and I thought that it was

a great place to start because it did really

Give you an idea of okay. This guy has motivation

to want to stop Superman because look at everything

he's doing friends He's killed the destruction

he's causing I completely justify what's gonna

hopefully come next So I was I think it it started

off with the strong strong It started off strong

for me where it ended out. That's a different

question I think it really kind of brought it

down to earth and made it real for us like it

had like a 9 -eleven feel so I mean it could

take it out of this fantastical realm where Superman

and aliens exist to you can see the impact on

other people who are on this you know God level

superhero level too so and I think it showed

Bruce Wayne as you know like a real dude at that

point just as helpless as the rest of us were

to stop anything. I think this is one of the

best done sequences of the entire film honestly

this is everything involving Batman and his involvement

in this world that we've seen in Man of Steel

and kind of setting up the motivation for why

he dislikes Superman is probably the the most

that this film makes sense in the entire thing.

Like everything seems to go together here. Everything's

very easily relatable and understandable as far

as his motivations and thought process. So let's

flip it then to the... Oh, wait, wait, wait.

What about a suit? We didn't talk anything about

his suit or his new car. Go ahead. What do you

feel about his suit or his car or his regular

suit or his armored suit or whatever you want

to talk about? The armored suit I always kind

of had a little bit of a problem with but I know

that that's kind of what it needed to be just

to get them on like a level playing field but

they didn't do any setup for it like I can I

would have liked it better if there was some

kind of like Set up where Alfred was talking

about the development or making this suit for

him or or anything like that Just kind of shows

up in it at one point, but I think that his other

suits were kind of forgettable. I don't even

really remember Seeing anything distinguishing

on them. I do Think that the dream sequence the

desert dream sequence with that man meeting Superman

when he has kind of like that trench coat thing

on and it's it's like his bat helmet thing, but

not his normal, you know, get up. It did have

like a Zack Snyder feel. It made me think of

Sucker Punch a lot that scene, but I think that

it was cool seeing him and like out of his element

a little bit. It's not Gotham City anymore. So

in the car, yeah, I mean, it was pretty cool,

but you saw it for like two seconds, I feel like.

Well, I think the biggest thing for me for any

of that type of stuff is that it wasn't done

to a way that looked... like distractingly bad

or anything like that, so it's fine for me. I

liked his regular get -up. I thought it was well

enough done that it was believable that he'd

look like a modern and older version of Batman

and I had no problem with it. Dan, what do you

think? I like the look, actually. I like the

gray, you know, the black on the gray with the

black emblem and the shorter spikes on the header,

or what do you want to call them, the shorter

ears. The Batmobile itself, just... I don't know,

it was kind of forgettable to me. Part of it

was like that sequence is so dark it's hard to

really make out what it looks like. But I don't

know, it just seemed like it didn't really have

anything that really stood out to me with the

design of the Batmobile compared to like other

ones. It wasn't awful, it wasn't like something

like the Batman in Robin Batmobile or something

like that that's largely bad, but it also wasn't

like it didn't have a iconic shape to it or iconic

look to it like the Tumblr or even the 1989 one

that I would remember just seemed like a you

know just a general design that is you know makes

sense it's practical and it's not too crazy but

it's also just nothing that i would you know

i'm okay that it got destroyed i enjoy i like

the the look of the bat wing the the you know

the bat playing a little bit more yeah i i'm

with you it was it was somewhat forgettable but

not necessarily bad to a point where it was distracting

or laughable like some things have been in batman's

past Now, Dan, the title of the film is Batman

vs Superman, and so far we've only talked about

one of those characters. So, I don't know if

bringing in this other character is where all

the problems begin or not, but... Taking your

opinion here, because we talked about Batman's

motivation for disliking Superman and somewhat

being out to stop him and kind of get retribution

for all the destruction that he was causing in

his fight with Zod, etc. And just the whole idea

that there's a godlike creature basically holding

dominion over this area of the world. If we flip

it to Superman's motivations and his part of

being involved in this versus... as we see in

the title, how did that work for you? I feel

like Superman is by far the It's awful in this

movie Like that's one way to put it. I don't

like I don't think Henry Cavill is a bad Superman

I just don't think he gets anything to do For

the most part and I think it starts with his

like his first main scene in Africa And I have

major issues with that scene for a lot of different

reasons. It makes very little sense It's like

they're trying to set up Superman and thinking

people he killed those people I guess but he

why would he kill him with guns? they shot him

all and like also like if he can save Lois, why

is the Than not like able to save the other guy

as well. I guess who is supposed to be Jimmy

Olsen Supposedly like why does that and then

again? He doesn't care about in like the aftermath

of that and I'm pretty sure he kills that guy

I mean doesn't necessarily need to so his justification

for like why he wants to stop Batman feels so

Hollow to me and it doesn't make sense because

he's doing nearly the same things I don't understand

who he is as a person and his motivations as

a whole he's so misrepresented in this for so

many different reasons and I feel like he is

a character that spends the entire time listening

to people tell him what to do rather than kind

of having an opinion on anything and like the

one time you think he's actually going to be

able to say something and like say where he stands

an explosion happens and then he ends up sulking

the rest of the movie so it's just I don't know

I feel like Superman by far I think Mostly that

Zack Snyder does not understand that character

or doesn't like that character or what -have

-you and you end up with a Superman that is lifeless

and uninteresting and really has Little to little

resemblance of the Superman that you would expect

to see I Mean if we all agreed that Batman's

motivations made sense his desire to not and

To kind of battle Superman and his motivations

make sense Are we all going to agree or do you

take the other side? How did Superman's motivations

to not have Batman in the picture work with you

or not work? Yeah, that didn't really make any

sense to me. I did feel like the whole time that

Superman was like this kicked puppy. I felt super

freaking bad for him the whole time. And I was

like, dude, he's just saving you guys. That's

all he's fucking doing. Why are you being so

mean to him? I was rooting for him, really I

was, but I couldn't feel for his cause against

Batman by any means, but I think that maybe it

was just kind of, it felt like a mild pissing

contest, like oh, you're the next biggest baddest

dude around and I'm kind of expected to take

you out, so that's kind of what's gonna happen,

but yeah, I don't get why he did anything in

this. Dan, I don't know if this was in your review

or something else that I read, but I thought

it was very well put that basically Superman

doesn't like Batman because he's going around

being a vigilante, even though Superman's basically

doing the same thing. Yeah, yeah. Like I said,

with the whole Africa thing, he kills this warlord,

or severely hurts him, and then he doesn't care

at all about what happened after that. And like

this whole, we see in the Senate that this entire

bloodlust and just... Basically, you know beast

of donations happens after that and And he does

nothing for that because Lois Lane is not in

trouble So why would he care because that's the

only thing he really seems to care about all

that much So yeah, that's my problem. Like he

He doesn't he wants Batman to have this moral

code that he doesn't even have himself. So again,

that's Yeah And then this whole thing, I mean,

obviously the whole title of the film and everything

about how this is built is that it's Batman versus

Superman. So we're gonna have this showdown.

We're gonna eventually see them come to blows.

And when they finally do interact with each other

and have a fight sequence, a lot of people thought

that that was not necessarily handled very well.

I've heard a lot of people say, rock them, sock

them, robots, or where they're just basically

running into each other. Dan was that the worst

fight sequence in a superhero film for a long

time or did the actual fight that we've been

waiting three years to happen pay off for you?

It certainly didn't pay off for me like I felt

there was a fighting quest in the flash TV show

against like Flash and Arrow and I thought that

was better handled in a sense of, like, there

was more creative things done within that sequence

than was in this. And there were some okay things,

like the start off of all the little traps Batman

sets, but it just ends up being a punching in

the face contest with little, like, you know,

little back and forth. I just, I don't know,

like, Wacom Soccer Robot is a good thing for

it. It just didn't seem to have... Any creativity

or anything all that much it was just and it

didn't last very long for the most part not that

you need to have a 15 minute acting sequence,

but I just actually ended up watching like today

the Captain America Winter Soldier not to compare

it to Marvel but like watching the sequence between

like Winter Soldier and Captain America There's

such an intensity there and I don't see that

intensity with this film like in that battle

it just i felt nothing like this is supposed

to be the you know the pinnacle moment the batman

v superman this thing people have been waiting

for forever and it's just a lot of people falling

through walls and getting hit with things which

that was a cool moment i'll grant you but overall

just it's like ah this is i was hoping for more

that was bottom line for me Amanda disappointed

with the fight between Batman and Superman or

did you think it fit the bill and then also obviously

towards the the climax I guess of their encounter

with each other we have the controversial turn

where Batman finally sees the the human side

of Superman because they share Mom's names of

each other and he snaps out of his fury to rid

the world of this demigod So first reaction on

the fight liked it or didn't like it and then

your reaction to the Batman turn I Definitely

was disappointed in the fight. It could have

definitely lasted a little bit longer. There

should have been some Some better exchanges.

I think maybe because they're on such a level

to where their strength is so great that they

don't need intricacies in fighting. What comes

to mind is just in the trailer of Civil War when

the Winter Soldier and Tony Stark are fighting

and Tony gets the Iron Man. suit around his hand

just in time to block the shot in his face from

the Winter Soldier I get like goosebumps every

time but that's some crazy hand -to -hand combat

stuff going on to where you kind of have time

to feel that oh shit moment where in this they

were just kind of it definitely was just a show

of strength really just punching and throwing

and all that good stuff but as far as the turn

goes I Yeah, I think that kind of wrecked it

for me like I couldn't even really remember any

of the fight because after that point I'm just

like what what the fuck We spent, like, I wasn't

keeping time in the theater, so I have no idea

how much of the movie we'd spent up to this point,

but it had to have been an hour to an hour and

a half at least that we've been watching this

film and seeing Batman's motivations for why

he wants to get rid of Superman and why he can't

trust if there's a one, I mean, he has the epic

speech, if there's a 1 % chance that he could

do harm to our world, then he's gotta go unless

his mom's name is the same as my mom's name.

Damn, is that, like, one of the worst moments

in the film? Like, I think... Wait, I understood

the initial like why he would hesitate though.

I don't see understand why superman would say

you have to save Martha and not my mom because

who would Like who says that like he would say

you but whatever uh Like I don't mind the idea

of him stopping and like not killing him and

because it would bring back these weird memories

I get that but like the then jump from i'm gonna

kill you because you might destroy the world

to we're not best friends because our moms share

the same name maybe that's why he doesn't kill

joker because joker's mom is also named martha

i don't know um yeah that like i said like the

Has any moment spawned more internet memes in

the last couple years, any movie moment? It's

up there, it's gotta be up there. Like it's up

there with Hail Hydra, like after that happened.

It's gotta be in the top five for sure. My favorite

one is by far The Stepbrothers. Amanda, she posted

that pretty quickly after that and I thought

that was absolutely perfect because it does,

it goes from a sequence where he wants to kill

him, to he hesitates to kill him, to he's gonna

let him live, to calling him his friend, to basically

defending his honor. He's gotta go save this

dude's mom. I don't mind him stopping killing

him because it's like, okay, like... Need to

save this person because I would something Batman

would do that because Batman would if he knew

someone was danger He would try to help that

person But again, then like when he's like, I'm

your your your son's friend or at the end where

he's I guess we're doing But he's like, you know,

I failed him. I'm like, what do you mean you

failed? Like what did you you guys barely talk

to each other? What did you fail him? Yeah, I

guess I guess we should have said there can be

spoilers in this discussion since we feel like

the whole world has seen this film already or

at least those apparently that we're going to

see it have seen it and nobody else is going

to. We're not spoiling anything. Yeah, we're

not spoiling anything. That brings up one other

thing because in that sequence we also not only

have Superman and Batman talking about their

mom's names, but we have the aid of Lois Lane

coming in to tell them that that is his mom's

name as well. Dan How is it possible that Lois

Lane is everywhere, in every scene, and in both

Gotham and Metropolis, and in the desert, and

anywhere that any of these guys are? Is she also

super -powered? Well, she's even Adam, so that's

her super -power. I don't know, I... They needed

is this is this Zack Snyder say her character?

Maybe or he just really likes Amy Adams or she

has like a time limit in her contract So they

had to put her in so many scenes. I honestly

didn't I don't know like I feel like I Didn't

really notice that in the movie like I didn't

even connect those I guess I just assumed she

would show up but it does seem like they Her

like subplot of like researching this bullet

does seem rather pointless for the at the end

of the day because it's like it didn't end up

really doing anything and I Don't like why would

you also then use a bullet that only you use

to kill people when you're trying to frame someone?

That makes no sense like that like well who would

do that like that, but sorry Amanda fan of Lois

Lane in this film or not No, she was super useless.

I couldn't get behind anything that she was doing.

Her reaction to what Clark's mom gives her when

she's sitting on Clark's bed at the end, I would

have had a very different reaction to that. She's

like smiling. I would have been bawling my freaking

eyes out. I would have been an inconsolable mess,

and she's just kind of, you know, smiling to

herself. And just a lot of her actions, I'm just

like, Why are you even here? Why are you trying?

What do you think you're going to be able to

do? You're just going to be in the way because

she was at every turn. Even if she's trying to

help doing something, she ends up getting in

the way and causing a problem anyways. Are Clark

Kent's parents just like, pure evil? Because

it's like, you know, you have Kevin Costner on

the first show saying that you probably could

have let those kids die. You know, Martha Kent

saying like, you don't necessarily need to be

their hero. Who cares? And then it's like, hey,

my son died. here feel sadder. Like why would

you feel worse about this? Pure evil. I did like

the line that Martha Kent used when you know

saying that you don't owe this planet anything

and I really really like that going into the

movie seeing that in the trailer I that's kind

of what solidified my intrigue into this because

I thought I'd never really seen it that way but

now I do like dude he's just helping you motherfuckers

out because he's nice as hell which could have

been a great thread to this whole story if they

would have developed the people turning on Superman

in a more Don't know visceral way to the point

where he would have felt where we would have

been able to believe that he was like Screw this

planet, you know, I don't know them anything

and that all could have had a lot more weight

But it just seemed like it was handled such amateurishly

I don't think that's a word but a couple of the

scenes where they did show people's reactions

to him saving People or doing these great things

and how they really did depend on him. I did

enjoy I thought that really set up the the feel

of of how needed he really was and how some people

aren't reacting to him positively so that's why

I was kind of blown off track where I'm like

okay you see all these scenes where these people

are are showing him gratitude and love and like

calling out for him to help but then you have

all these you know senators and and uh these

protesters screaming to kind of lock them up

or go back to whatever universe you came from

bud but So I really didn't see that as earned

either. Also getting in, I mean we're running

a little bit long but we got a couple more things

to cover obviously with this film and one item

that we have not talked about which I'd like

to get your quick reactions to is the character

obviously of Lex Luthor played by Jesse Eisenberg.

Amanda, how did that work for you? Obviously

a different take of... from Lex Luthor than we've

seen before, channeling maybe some other villains

that we're more familiar with. What did you think

about his role as Lex Luthor? Did it work for

you? Did it not? A lot of people are saying that's

the worst part of the film. I think he did and

he didn't. I like how it was Alexander Luthor.

It wasn't necessarily either older Lex Luthor.

I liked how it was a younger take, a more modern

take. I think that... His company kind of felt

a little like Google on the face. You know what

I mean? It's something you would see the Google

corporation doing. But then at the same time,

he's developing weapons and has all these government

ties and things like that. So I thought it was

kind of a cool aspect to see a modern take on

LexCorp. But as far as his actual character goes,

I think it's kind of likened to the new, like

the Jared Leto Joker, how it's a very modernized

version and I think he should have stayed in

like the, I don't know, like not so much megalomaniac

and kind of more quirky nerd with some homicidal

tendencies. I think I like that a little bit

better than this whole megalomaniac side. So

I think that there was kind of like a shift to

where on one hand he's got these delusions of

grandeur and then on the other side it's it's

just he wants to get rid of Superman and Batman

like he's got all kinds of stuff going on I really

wasn't sure what he was dealing with as far as

like his mental capacity like I know he's smart

but I don't know what kind of emotional state

he's in like is does he have all these personalities

is he coming into his own still is he dealing

with daddy issues is that he mentions you know

a lot of crazy stuff that happened with his dad

too so I really didn't know what was making him

him Dan, bouncing off of that and kind of going

with what she was saying, she mentioned having

a lot of personalities. Is the problem with his

character that everybody's having? Is it more

of how he's depicting it in that it seems like

he can't decide whether he wants to be Lex Luthor,

the Joker, the Riddler, or some type of combination

of a couple other villains? Or is it more so

just with the motivation that this character

has and how he fits into this whole story in

the first place? I don't mind his portrayal.

I don't think the issue with Lex Luthor or...

the problems of Jesse Eisenberg. I think, you

know, he's certainly going for something, but

I think that's obviously, you know, a direction

standpoint that they want him to go because it's

clearly the idea with the script, it's Alex Luthor

who's certainly more, I don't know, loosely tied

to his sanity is very loose, to say the least.

I think the issue with Alex Luthor is that there's

no understanding of why he's doing anything.

Like we mentioned it changes from time to time,

but even when it changes it doesn't change to

something that really feels all that legitimate

It's like like the Dark Knight where the Joker

would change his origin story of how he got the

scars every time and now we're finding out different

reasons of why he's doing what he's doing and

like I don't like is he does he want Batman to

kill Superman or does he want like it doesn't

He is the big reason a lot of this stuff is happening,

but it doesn't certainly even make sense. Like,

why does he even make Doomsday? Like, why does

he even do that? Like, what is the goal there?

Because if he does that, then what happens? And

like, what is his overall... What is he hoping

to achieve? Like, I've never even understood,

let alone his motivations, just beyond just,

I want to kill Superman. But then, I guess that

was my biggest issue. It just seemed so haphazardly

done that I just felt really unearned and unnecessary

and just basically contrived is the best way

to put it. And I didn't mind the performance.

I don't have an issue if you're gonna take a

character like Lex Luthor and do something different

with them. I know a lot of people hate that,

but I'm okay with it. But again, I wouldn't point

to any issues with Jesse Eisenberg. It was an

odd performance, but I also don't know how you

could say the lines he was given any other way.

Like, how do you say redcoats are coming and

not seem like great? Like, nothing to do that

in a way that's convincing. So, I don't know.

I think my only problem with his performance,

I think, would come down to his very last scene

that he's in. To me, that seemed to go a little

bit off the rails. But up to that point, I didn't

have any problem with his, actually. acting or

portrayal of it. I think that my major problem

is like what you were saying with the motivations

of why this character is doing anything in this

film that he does. I think he's just basically

trying to sow the seeds of chaos, but you really

don't know why he decides to be one of those

watch the world burn kind of guys. Well it's

fine, if he has the potential was there, he should

be having the exact same motivation that Batman

does. They should both be trying to get to the

same ends, but obviously going about it a little

bit differently. They both want to the idea was

there that they should both be trying to rid

this world of this god that that could basically

like I said hold dominion over this area and

then you could have had that set up for some

pretty interesting moral dilemmas between how

Batman's doing it and how Lex Luthor is doing

it but it seems like they didn't care to develop

that at all and he's just like you said haphazardly

going about this and just randomly doing things

that are all gonna be chaotic but there has to

be something tying that together unless you're

just completely nuts so Maybe that's what they're

going for, and he's just completely nuts. I don't

know. Last thing before I'll give you guys just

kind of some free rein to run through some different

topics, but wanted to get your ideas on the Justice

League tie -ins, the setup of this universe and

setup for the new film, the appearance that we

do get of, you know, the Flash and Cyborg and

Aquaman, the obviously inclusion of Wonder Woman,

which we haven't talked about yet. But how did

this set you up for the Justice League movie,

first of all? And then how do you think just

the way that they were woven into this film either

worked or didn't work? Was it shoehorned or was

it natural, Amanda? I super loved how they did

it in this film. I'm glad that I didn't have

to wait after the credits to see some cool shit

that's gonna get me excited for other movies

that are coming out. You didn't have to wait

until after the credits, but did it not feel

like they had just taken the post -credit scene

and just kind of shoved it inside the movie?

No, no. I liked how they set it up, how they

included it into the movie, how it made it a

serious part of the film. I think this was probably

the coolest aspect about this film. and something

that I loved the most, and I think that it made

me a little weird. Like, how the fuck do you

have this bitch's email address already? Like,

is it really out there? I mean, this Wonder Woman,

she probably covers her shit a little bit better.

Like, Diana Prince doesn't just have, like, diana

.prince .yahoo .com, and Batman can fucking email

her. But, um, I think that... I think that besides

that, it was cool for him to discover that and

have this, like, meta -human theory kind of put

out there. I'm pretty sure a lot of people had

problems with this. I don't know why I loved

it as much as I did. Maybe because of the actual

footage they saw. Because it distracted you from

the movie that you were watching and directed

your attention to something else. A lot of this

film just got me excited to see other DC stuff

that I'm really looking forward to. And I think

that it was nice to see it. as more than something

that looks like an afterthought or something

that is like just a sneak peek that's thrown

on the end there. I liked how it was incorporated

in and actually was the building point upon what's

gonna happen later on in these other films. I

think that the footage of the flash with Ezra

Miller were super amazing, like just the looks

on his face, the subtle showing of his attitude

and... the the feel that you get from that I

thought was on point he's he's like a a starky

little badass and I'm ready for that and I think

that cyborg before seeing this I really wasn't

super excited about seeing it I really hadn't

heard much about it I'm just like oh cyborg it's

gonna be super cool but I can't get past like

the Teen Titans look in my head so like I hadn't

really tied anything Awesome to this yet, but

then seeing that just amazing Scary technology

that's going into making cyborg. I'm like on

board as a fuck now to see his movie I thought

that the the lab footage of that was super cool

And I can't wait to see that happen and then

of course the badass of all badasses Jason Momoa

as Aquaman the look of him was just amazing and

getting the feel of that underwater shot and

they're coming out on the shipwreck like I get

this sense of like eerie, creepy, something lurking

there, and then you see the glowing eyes, which

I thought was a super, super cool touch, and

then to see him come out and just try to get

the crap out of the camera in all his tattooed

glory was just amazing. I couldn't get enough

of it. As far as Wonder Woman goes though, I

didn't really care for her. I was... ready to

see like a super cool female in here and have

an awesome Wonder Woman. I just don't think she

looked like an Amazon. I like that she had like

an accent so you could see where she really wasn't

like Americanized and like from here all the

way even though she's been here for you know

she's been everywhere really but I liked how

she kind of kept her to where she was exotic.

I like the exotic nature of her. But just looking

at her, she didn't look like an Amazon. You could

see every piece of her spinal cord through her

back. She did not look muscular or substantial

like an Amazon would. She was just kind of bony

in there. And I really believe her strength,

I think, was my main problem with it. I think

I'm going to disagree with almost everything

you said. Oh my god. Outside of Aquaman, I...

was not affected whatsoever by Flash, by Cyborg.

I was just like, okay, I realize that you have

to bring these guys up because you're trying

to set up another film. Really cool scene in

Aquaman, but that whole sequence I could care

less about. I actually, from the moment that

Wonder Woman comes onto the scene, I enjoyed

that part of the film on to the end more than

I liked everything since the Batman. Beginning

of the film I know I just like that the way that

they somehow I found it believable that they

That they depicted her in a way that like you

said she's been around forever She's been everywhere

and she somehow had even if she didn't have maybe

the body structure of you know a bodybuilder

or of like a UFC fighter or something like that,

but but the way that they portrayed her though

too in those fights made it seem like she could

trade blows with all these guys on a very equal

footing. I like the visual effect of the lasso

and a couple other things they did with her.

And I just, I think it was more, not necessarily

anything to do with her character, but from the

point that she comes on the film to the end,

the pacing issues of the film are fixed. So I

was just more entertained from that part, and

it just happens that she was a part of that part

of the film, I guess, for me. It might not have

as much to do with her, but it seemed like, hey,

she's on the scene now, and stuff's actually

starting to happen and progress at a natural

pace, and we're not sludging our way through

this. But I did like the way they depicted her,

and I thought it was... I thought some of the

facial expressions she used were really good.

I know some people had a problem because they

seemed like... They said that she was alluding

to the fact that she was always just smiling

or kind of like snickering. I thought that was

kind of a cool touch. So I'm actually more, I

had no excitement for Wonder Woman going to this.

I know nothing about the character. It reminds

me too much of Superman, which is a character

I don't like, but Wonder Woman and... Aquaman

actually have me excited to see more, as well

as the Batman portrayal by Ben Affleck. But Dan,

I'll give you a chance to kind of bounce off

everything we're saying. Was it a natural part

of the film? Obviously they had to do something

to set up the Justice League, but was it natural

or did it feel shoehorned in? Did you like the

sequences there? And then what was your reaction

to Wonder Woman? I thought the email felt super

shoehorned in because it's like, I'm going to

send you this email. And good thing that Lex

Luthor also created these logos for every character

as well, because why would you? do that but anyways

um i thought the the videos themselves were kind

of cool like i i did like how they did Aquaman

and it does kind of have me excited for what

has come in store where it fit in the film was

a little bit i don't know it was like we're gonna

pause all this time to show you all these separately

but whatever i liked Wonder Woman i felt in the

movie like It did seem I don't know like your

justification for being there was limited like

how she had to get this photograph and Though

I was an idiot and was looking at the photograph

thinking like that guy who looks a lot like Chris

Pine like oh, that's actually Chris Pine, but

Yeah, she literally did Gail Goddard as Wonder

Woman I I like what we saw that she had good

chemistry with Ben Affleck I thought she was

fine. I thought she looked fine in the action

sequences, especially her kind of, I guess, reveal

as Wonder Woman when she first shows up saving

Batman. I really liked that moment and the little

attitude she had in the fights where she has

that enjoyment look of like, you know, she's

craving the battle like you would expect for

a Wonder Woman. And I'm actually quite excited

for a Wonder Woman movie based upon what we did

see of her and where it could go. Does she look

like an Amazon? I probably not, but I don't know.

Unless you get the one person from the Game of

Thrones, I don't know if there's many actresses

out there that can play in Amazon. She doesn't

have to be like a fucking wilderness beast, but

she needs to put a little fucking meat on her

bones if I'm gonna believe her, pick it up, Superman.

I don't know, I felt I was convinced enough,

yeah, for the most part. You know, it's Wonder

Woman, but I don't know. I get what they're doing

there, but it... I had more an issue with like

the, you know, the email than the inclusion of

Wonder Woman just because it just seemed like

an odd spot to do it, but... It should have been

like AOL messaging from back in the day. Maybe,

maybe, yeah, or like a MySpace page or something

like that. Oh, I found Wonder Woman on Facebook.

Also, I don't understand where it's like the

whole she has to find a photo because it's like,

can she be like, I just look a lot like my grandmother,

like that is not... Right. Yeah and then obviously

the icing on the cake which we haven't talked

about and again we're not really spoiling anything

I don't think but if you haven't seen it the

film maybe stop listening to us but controversial

I guess. according to some people but dan what's

your thoughts of the ending of the film and clearly

the allusion to death even though obviously they

spoil it by showing us that immediately he's

not dead i was actually surprised that they killed

him in any way shape or form like i was really

surprised that happened even though it you know

it's he I mean, they killed Jimmy Olsen and Robin

off pretty easily. Yeah. You know, it is somewhat

related to, you know, Demon's Day and the death

of Superman's story, but I didn't think it would

actually happen. I thought they would actually

give us a bigger reveal at the end. Like, you

would legitimately see Superman coming back,

not just the dirt rising. I don't know. Superman

the dirt rising. Yeah. But... I don't know, it

did feel, that to me showed me, if anything,

just how little I cared about him because like

all this emotion that was supposed to be happening

and all those things you were seeing, I felt

none of it because like I said, like I felt like

the Superman I still don't know or understand

completely. So yeah, like you said, it's two

films that we've gotten with Superman so far

and I would have felt more bummed if they had

killed Batman. Like I feel more connected to

that character. than the six hours we've had

with Superman. I didn't want him to die, though.

I felt bad for him. He's just doing all this

stuff out of the goodness of his heart, really.

And then he starts to decide to just kind of

do his own thing, and the dude gets murdered,

man. It's not fun. And I wasn't expecting the

doomsday thing. I didn't know that that was going

to be a part of this. I also stayed away from

rumors a long time, because I had no idea he

was even in this film. I thought that whole thing,

that could have been its own movie, you know

what I mean? That whole setup should have just

been its own thing. Well, I guess that goes through

all my points, so I made it, any other thoughts

on anything you didn't get to talk about, whether

it was Doomsday, Alfred, we didn't get to talk

a lot about that, fight scenes, general thoughts

on the film, and then kind of where would you

score this one on a scale of one to ten? And

I think they definitely underused Alfred in this.

I think in a lot of the other movies, he's been

a bigger, more pivotal role to show his involvement

in Bruce's life and what he really means to the

cause and to Bruce Wayne. He didn't have the

same clause in his contract that Amy Adams did.

Yeah, he did not have a time where he had to

be maxed out for the film. But that was a little

sad. I think that... The fight scenes, some of

them were pretty cool. I don't think if they're

on the crazy Marvel Cinematic Universe level,

like Winter Soldier and all that good stuff,

but as far as the look of the film, I think it

definitely looks like a Zack Snyder film. You

can see his brush strokes here and there. I think

that one of the coolest things to see was when

Superman gets nuked with Doomsday, and he's in

space, and you see how... Fugly and messed up

he is he starts to kind of regenerate. I thought

that was a super cool touch I think at one point

when the change starts to happen the CG gets

a little bit much But at first I was like, oh

shit, that's that was really cool I like how

that I think that's one of the things that you

can see how the film is is a little bit darker

I like that and score And I'm gonna give it a

seven and a half out of ten that high. Yeah Alright,

I think you're going to be the highest out of

both of us. I think for me, my biggest problem

with the whole film is pacing. I was literally

bored at times, and I'm not usually bored at

any type of superhero comic book film. The first,

or that middle probably hour, hour and fifteen

minutes was almost painful for me. I was not

necessarily falling asleep, but I was that bored

with parts of it. It just felt like such a slog

to get through. I liked the beginning parts with

the Batman, even though I then could see some

places with the flashbacks and with the origin

story that they could have maybe cut some of

the time off of. I did thoroughly enjoy the last,

you know, 30 -some minutes even with some of

the terrible plot. Motivations and stuff like

that as far as like the pacing goes I'm talking

about it It seemed like it fixed itself towards

that last 45 minutes But it just I felt every

minute of that two and a half hours And I do

not want to see three hours worth of a blu -ray

cut or a rated -r cut or whatever They're gonna

be doing you know somehow though I still even

though this movie failed on so many levels visually

it was fine And it did somehow set up the Justice

League movie even by somehow being a terrible

film in my book it It's weird that you could

be as bad as it was and still somehow have me

in interested in some of these characters to

continue. Everything I say you just keep shitting

on me. I feel like I'm on an island over here.

I can't forgive some of these things. Lex Luthor's

motivations, Superman's motivations. There's

just too many bad things about this whole thing

and I'm going to be much lower than you. I'm

going to score this a 3 out of 10. Are you serious?

Yeah. Three out of ten for me. I'm getting a

terrible look, Dan. You let you talk now. Like,

I think there are a lot of positives and there

are, I think, more negatives, though. Like I

said, it's a really good Batman movie, an awful

Superman movie. I hear a lot of people saying

that DC is more grown up, but I don't really

feel that. I don't feel like it's a more grown

up movie. It may be darker and maybe more violent,

but I don't necessarily think it's more adult

or grown up than a Marvel film. Really, I feel

like if you're looking for movies that kind of

get that balance much better, I would say the

X -Men films are better at getting a balance

of dealing with darker tones while still maintaining

a level of being somewhat uplifting or somewhat

humorous with like... first class or days of

future past my biggest issue were simply like

motivations of characters left and right especially

superman and jesse isenberg and i actually think

i would be interested in seeing the three -hour

cut because i think more time spent with someone

on that story could fix a lot of those problems

i know there were a lot of cuts like days before

it was released. There's some scenes that even

have been released already. So it's possible

to fix those problems. I am excited somewhat

still. Like I said, I'm really looking forward

to see what they're doing with Wonder Woman,

how they're bringing all these other characters

together. There are seats here and maybe those

problems that I do have can be fixed in further

films as we find out more about what happened

to Batman. I'm still super excited for Suicide

Squad, but ultimately I do think that this is

a movie that... has big ideas, but also has a

lot of big problems and it just feels like there's

too many cooks in this kitchen trying to do too

many things and not really getting any of those

completely accomplished. For me, I'm gonna fall

between you guys and give it a five out of 10.

Alright, so a three, a five, and a seven were

across the board. On this one, we'll have to

see what the listeners and the fans think on

the website on which one of us is most accurate

with their feelings. And just kind of in closing

here, guys, since we're coming in a little bit

after the fact and we've had some time to see

some progress on this film, obviously it came

out... with gangbusters in the first weekend

as far as the box office goes and it was a little

battle there where it was the critics were all

absolutely shitting on this film and it was even

making headlines as what Rotten Tomatoes was

calling the I think it was Rotten Tomatoes said

the most successful, or maybe Box Office Mojo,

the most successful bad movie ever because there's

not very many films that were able to make over

150 million and receive less than a 30 % on Rotten

Tomatoes. So it was definitely a tale of two

cities there where we had the fans coming out

and seeing it in droves. The Box Office numbers

were good. The critics were overwhelmingly negative

on this and it was going bad. We had Zack Snyder

coming out with... article after article after

interview defending this defending that every

element of the film it seems like he was out

in defense for we had the actors coming out and

saying hey we don't make movies for critics we

make movies for fans and the fans have spoken

and then a week later we've seen that it has

also set a record by the biggest drop in box

office I think ever from week one to week two

it had like somewhere around like an 80 % drop

off from week one to week two because everybody's

shitting on it Dan What do you make of all of

this? The hailstorm that has come from this film,

the whole fans versus critics thing, the box

office success to the box office plummet. What

do you make out of all this? I don't get the,

like, oh, they did it for the fans, so the critics

don't matter. Because to me, the issues I have,

I don't necessarily... You know, I am a comic

book fan. I've read a lot of these comics, so

I don't get that. What exactly do people mean

by that? What is it that... Critics dislike that

fans like about it. That seems to me just like

a cop -out I do think the hate I would put it

the hate does go a little too far in some ways

I don't it seems like people are You know going

out of their way in some instances to really

you know crap on the movie I mean some people

might truly truly hate it, but it it's I'm mostly

surprised by just like It feels like there's

this dividing line that's being created where

people are saying like, oh, there seems to be

this idea of Marvel fans or DC fans where they're

saying Marvel movies are for kids and DC movies

are for adults. And like I said, I don't get

that at all. I think that's just ridiculous in

a really limited way of looking at it. I, as

someone who did a box of predictions and had

Superman... the batman v superman is number one

i was very disappointed it dropped so much because

it's looking like it won't even make more than

daredevil by the end or not daredevil but uh

deadpool which i didn't even put in my top 15

so there you go uh yeah it's weird it's such

a weird thing in a way and then we've heard news

which maybe we'll cover in later weeks regarding

warner brothers and a reaction to it it's become

this huge thing i it's i don't think i've ever

seen anything quite like this to this with all

these just vastly different opinions about a

movie and then seeing the box office so drastically

fall within a week is it do you think it's a

I mean do you think it's a product of not necessarily

people avoiding it because of word of mouth because

I think a lot of people actually went and saw

them and it was making records at first whatever

it was opening week opening weekend is it more

so that a lot of people aren't willing to go

back and watch it a second time or do you think

that the reviews have somehow made people avoid

it altogether? I think both. I think there's

been so much negativity surrounding this that

people are scared to say that they like it and

maybe even not willing to go back and see it

a second time because of what she said earlier

with pacing issues and maybe they did get bored

and everybody's crying about it and if they fuck

up Suicide Squad by re -shooting stuff and making

it funnier and not as dark because people think

that that's they think that that's what people

are having an issue with then they're they're

gonna get some serious hate mail from me at least

I'm already so upset about it they're fucking

bad guys let them be we're bad guys let them

be bad guys don't make it just funny it's dark

keep it dark what I don't get about that is is

anybody who is complaining that the that the

movie is bad because it's darker or or gritty

there are there are a lot of i did read a lot

of reviews or people are complaining that it's

like there's no humor and it's too dark but it's

one of many like it's like yeah it's like that

it's It's like, how about the writing? How about

the motivations? That's why critics are scoring

this bad overwhelmingly. It's not because of

the tone. Yeah, something's fucking up. I'm going

to be so mad. I'm going to cry. I'm literally

going to cry. I felt like crying when I found

out about it. You know, look at The Dark Knight.

The Dark Knight is a very dark film, and it did

really well. Like I said, the X -Men films, like

The Days of Future Past, was pretty dark. So

I don't... I did see that as like a headline

for a lot of reviews, but it was, like I said,

one of many problems that people would point

out. So I think it's really just, I don't know,

people going for the more generalizations and

the real true issues with it. Yeah. Alright,

so that does it for our review on Batman vs Superman

Dawn of Justice. You'll have to let us know who

you agree with. Is it a 3 out of 10, a 5 out

of 10, or a 7 out of 10, or something altogether?

Seven and a half, bro. Seven and a half, excuse

me. Or is it better or is it worse than all of

us are grading it? So give us your thoughts on

the website. Real quick to wrap up here as far

as what's coming out here in the next week. Blu

-ray releases coming out. We have one... little

tiny film from last year that will be brought

out on DVD Blu -ray this Tuesday which would

be Star Wars The Force Awakens. We have Silicon

Valley The Complete Second Season, The Expanse

Season One, Michael Collins a new Blu -ray release,

Mojave which is a 2016 release, Anime Fans Ghost

in the Shell the new movie, and then for theater

releases we have wide releases well let's put

that in quotations because it's not coming as

widely as i'd like but everybody wants some miles

ahead god's not dead 2 and some limited video

on demand releases for pandemic the dark horse

and meet the blacks dan what's uh intriguing

you amongst that list are you uh headed to a

store tuesday to pick up a dvd or are you going

to be seeing one of these theater releases i

mean i really want to see everybody wants them

because i'm you know a huge richard richard legally

leader fan so that's probably what i'm going

with all right amanda I want to see that Mojave

movie with Oscar Isaac, but I think that if you

don't buy Star Wars, you're stupid. Are you calling

that stupid? I didn't say won't buy it, I'm just

saying. Part of me does want to wait, though,

to just get the trilogy all together, because

it'll probably be some special, like, Millennium

Falcon edition or something like that. We're

in this Disney club and Kevin said the funniest

shit the other day. They'll send it to us and

just charge us. You actually have to tell them

not to send you something. They give you like

a featured selection each month and you have

to opt out of it or else they automatically send

it to you. And Kevin goes, we do nothing and

they're sending us Star Wars. We don't have to

do anything and they're sending us Star Wars.

So I was happy about that. So that'll count as

one of the ones I bought I guess. but to fulfill

our membership quota so we can eventually get

out and then resubscribe under Amanda's name

and get some more free movies. I did not say

that. Alright, so thanks for listening, guys.

Make sure you go to the website geekcastradio

.com, find this episode post, chime in on anything

that we talked about, whether it be news or whether

it be your reactions to Dawn of Justice. I know

it's obviously a very geek -centric movie, so

hopefully people will have fun reacting to that

and reacting to the things we said. You can also

follow us on Twitter if you want to directly

interact with us. The show name is At Cinema

Geek Cast. Dan, your Twitter is? At Movie Revolts.

Amanda? Hard Candy Mandy, Eyes Know Lies. And

mine is At Optimist Solo. Other than that, stay

tuned next week for our April preview and our

first look back at the month of March to see

how all of our predictions for March did. And

then also stay tuned in April for some more of

the video game series as well as our first installment

in the Miyazaki Spotlight. So a lot of stuff

coming for the Cinema Geeks. Hopefully you'll

be tuning in to all of those different things.

But for now, that's it. And be sure to check

in next week for another chance to listen to

the Cinema Geeks. I finally got Kevin to watch

up, and he didn't fucking cry. Aw, you're heartless.

I didn't cry, but I loved the movie. He was like

on the inside. I was like, aren't you upset?

I was like, I'm crying right now. Aren't you

upset? He's like, on the inside. Dude, let it

be on the outside. Sorry, I need to get more

in touch with my emotions. I'm the opposite of

JD, but yeah, I love that. I wish I would have

seen that before we did our animated movie countdown.

Kevin could see a puppy on fire and not be crying

about it. Wally's next on the list, so then...

Let's go watch it right now.