Hayao Miyazaki Retrospective Princess Mononoke Review

Hello and welcome to Cinema Geeks as we continue

our Heio Miyazaki retrospective. Today we will

be reviewing Princess Mananoke and joining me

on today's adventure as we review this film as

always is Kevin Optimus Solo as a going man.

He's going pretty well. Also joining us on today's

adventure is Hard Candy Manny. Hello. And last

but not least Matt for LeeSent, how are things?

Things are good. Things are good. Things are

very good. And I am obviously one of your hosts

as well, Movie Revolve Dan. And if you've not

listened to the past episodes of Cinema Geeks

or our past retrospectives today, we are continuing

our retrospective of the career of legendary

director Hayao Miyazaki. We have gone through

all of his films in order of release, and today

we are up to Princess Manonoke, which was released

in 1997. The brief - plot synopsis is on a journey

to find a cure for Taragami's curse. That's not

right. That's not right at all. Ashika finds

himself in the middle of a war between the forest

gods and Tatara, a mining colony. In the quest,

he also meets San, the Mananoke Hime. I don't

think I got half the words right in that. That's

why I usually don't do those, but anyway. But

yes, we've been going through all of his films.

We've had a lot of different things to say. I

know going into this, Matt, if you listened to

the last episode, Matt and I both kind of gave

our thoughts about this as well, but I think

Kevin and Amanda, this was your first time watching

this. So Amanda, maybe I'll start with you here.

Overall thoughts and impressions on Princess

Mananoke. It definitely was a lot more gritty

than his other films, and I dug it. I loved the

carnage. I loved how freaking scary it was. I

was scared. I don't know about anybody else,

but I was a little freaked out if I was a younger

version of myself. I might have been a little

scarred by this, but I think it was some pretty

cool subject matter and some pretty high stakes,

because Mufukas was dying and stuff, and getting

turned into demons and shit, so... I liked the

stage. It was pretty adult even though you know

I think the main characters well Ashitaka and

Saad were pretty young but I don't know they

could have been 21 or something I don't ever

really know but it was cool while I dug it and

I think that it it's definitely one of my my

faves from him so far. Kevin do you agree with

that sentiment or was this another one maybe

that you didn't enjoy as much as others? Actually,

I enjoyed this one quite a bit. It had a lot

of things going for it when it comes to things

that are kind of up my alley or things that I

like. It had kind of the, I kind of like the

mysterious of it, the mysteriousness of it with

the different clans of people and kind of the

idea between the different, the animals and the

spirits and stuff like that. So it definitely

had a mystery aspect to it that I dug and kind

of like the, started off with the kind of shaman

aspect at the beginning of the film where she's

kind of... of telling the future and kind of

there's always all kinds of different omens and

and signs of different things so I kind of dug

that part and then I think like Amanda was saying

that it's very brutal it's very it's not pulling

any punches so so I like that aspect of it as

well. Maybe some minor nitpicks that we'll get

into a little bit later but overall the the actual

feel of the movie the aesthetic of it I was really

on board. Matt, I know I think you've expressed

some love for Princess Mononoke in the past.

What for you do you, I know, do you feel this

is one of his best films? If so, why? Well, hmm,

that's an interesting question because I feel

like leading up to this, it's like Princess Mononoke's

first movie of his I ever watched. It's one of

the first anime movies I ever watched and really

got me into the genre. Or the style I guess but

like I don't want to say I almost dreaded watching

it Just like it doesn't pull me in when I'm not

watching it It doesn't like excite but I tell

you what when it's playing like I'm hooked. I'm

watching it I'm picking up more details that

I didn't I missed last time and watch it a million

times It's it's uh almost like going on vacation

as a kid where it's like I don't want to go I

want to just you know be lazy and then like you

go on the vacation It's like I love vacation

So I don't know if I could say it's one of my

favorites But it's definitely a thing I love

watching and it's a solid recommendation anytime

I need to recommend something. I think we're

all kind of copacetic in this episode because

Actually somewhere to Matt. This was the first

Miyazaki film. I watched it was just kind of

by accident It was I think on stars one day one

of the premium channels and I turned it on and

it actually was near the end of the film where

we You know where the force gods kind of all

kind of wreaked their havoc and I remember being

younger and this is the first, you know, I'm

used to like Saturday morning cartoons like American

cartoons. I've not really watched much outside

of that. So this was like a Huge awakening for

me to watching this and seeing just the craziness

of this the violence of it Which was something

I was on expecting and just the imagination that

was on display I've watched it a couple of times

again since then and being able to watch it now

and I agree with you man I think there's a lot

going on here. It's probably since the most dense

plot. We've had since its first major film outside

of Lupin with Nausicaa. There's a lot of similarities

between I think this, that film, and this. It

was interesting watching this now seeing Nausicaa,

which I hadn't before, and just noticing there

are a lot of key elements that I think they borrow

from one another, but overall it's a much, I

think, a different take on it. I just I love

the animation. I love the action. There's just

something about a riding a wolf that I find endlessly

amazing and cool Just just gigantic wolf. I'm

like, I just I want to do that. That's just an

awesome I'm not gonna lie The characters are

great. I know we did our top 100 animated character

countdown and we've already had Asuka was within

that and I think maybe we watching this again

We can get into it. I think I probably maybe

even didn't give him the credit He deserves he's

a little bit different of a character and we

can get into that but I just I know I find this

has a lot It's saying it obviously is its message

is there for sure and we can probably talk about

that But I agree. I'm this is spoiler alert is

still has been and continues to be my favorite

Madazuki film. It may change after watching some

of the other ones that we haven't got to yet,

but right now it to me still stands heads and

shoulders above the rest of a very really great

field. So, but maybe Kevin, you know, why not

start with a negative before we were when we

know gushing over this film, we said you do have

a few nitpicks. So why don't we just get those

out of the way to begin with. Overall, what were

some of the negative take backs for this that

you had? Well, one of them is completely not

fair because it has more to do, and I know we've

done this a number of different times, but it

has more to do with the fact that we watched

the English dub version of this. So I wouldn't

have been as distracted if I had watched it in

the original language with subtitles on. But

some of the dub work is excellent and some of

it really took me back and took me all back.

And some of the voice work was great. Some of

it was a little jarring though. Was it Billy

Bob Thornton? Did that do it? It was Billy Bob

Thornton as this mercenary monk character that

just had too many parts where you could hear

the Billy Bob in him. It was just a little bit

jarring for me. I didn't really... I guess the

other one would have been Jada... I believe it

was the character voiced by Jada Pinkett Smith.

Yeah. Were those two performances took me out

of it a little bit? But those are the only two

like the rest of them all worked for me and worked

for me very well But those two whenever they

spoke it I had to consciously try to like not

let it take me out of the atmosphere of The film

overall so that's a mighty nitpick. That's not

really fair since it's more of the English dub

version, but I did want to point that out Yeah,

that always sticks out to me. I'm like really

Billy Bob Thorne that's you go with it's like

I've watched like some Jackie Chan of dub films

and it's always like you're giving him a bit

and they have like British accent It's like it

makes no sense. Why would you do that? Like why

would you give like one person randomly a British

accent out of all of it? But it's like let's

have this southern this guy who's clearly a Japanese

monk and he has a southern accent. It's just

like... Well, that's not to say that there was

some voice work that was phenomenal. I mean,

right off the get -go, when the voice of the,

I guess you could call it the demon that was

possessing that boar, when he speaks for the

first time as he's kind of dying, like that was

like... I wasn't ready for that, but that was

an amazing performance there and there was a

lot of other voices. I mean John DiMaggio as

Gonzo was great and I thought all the major characters

were pretty believable. So I don't want to kind

of put down the dub and some of the voice work,

but there was just a couple that were like, ah,

I can hear you way too much in this one. So I

did want to point that out. That makes sense.

I don't know if Amanda, I know you kind of picked

up on the Billy Bob 2. Did it bother you as much

as it did me or is it just like, hey, that's

Billy Bob? I was kind of like whatever's really

Bob. I'm not really expecting a whole lot, but

when Jada Pinkett Smith's character came on,

Kevin's like, I think that's a black lady. And

then we looked it up and it's Jada. But I mean,

I'm not, I wasn't going to be too picky about

the voice work. Like I get it. It's, it's a dub,

so I wasn't expecting much. It made me sound

majorly racist. Oh, it was just really obvious.

Like it's not some Asian lady. It was, yeah,

it was just more so that it was very, Certain

like style and her voice and certain styles and

Billy Bob's voice just the way they speak It

was very evident. But like I said, that was kind

of an unfair nitpick the other one I think it

has to do more so with something Dan what you

brought up with as far as the the complexity

and the thickness of the plot I Don't have a

problem with that. But I think when you combine

How complex or how much is going on in the plot

with the runtime that? I think some people would

have an issue with the I don't know the length

of the film would be something that they have

an issue or if it was keeping their Allowing

all of the viewers to be able to follow it I

guess is what I'm trying to say because there

is a lot and it is long and I Questioned whether

some people might find themselves getting lost

along the way and where I think it does benefit

from multiple Watchings where you can like Matt

said you can always pick up more and more and

more But if you're just like if someone has never

seen an anime film or someone has never seen

a Miyazaki film and and you you give them this

I I sometimes worry that is that going to be

the right one because they might just get lost

in in the runtime the pacing the complexity so

I think for obviously not if Matt and Matt was

this your first Miyazaki viewing as well or is

just Dan? No it's my first as well. So Dan and

Matt, we're both exposed to these. I came this

way and they latched on. But we're also talking

about a specific type of person that, number

one, enjoys films. Number two... Why would you

recommend this to somebody who doesn't, though?

No, I'm just saying I could see some people in

the masses not being able to appreciate everything

that's going on and just kind of cling to, like

I said, the pace and the length or the complexity

or the lostness or I'm not following what's going

on. I didn't have that problem. I enjoy that

part of it because I enjoy a little more of a

complex plot. But I'm just pointing it out as

something that some people may obviously who

are gonna be watching this are people who? Are

down for some anime right and most anime? Is

of the same kind of feel I would say like from

my experience So I don't think that it's anything

different from what they're getting with any

other mango or I Think it's much different if

you're gonna show them. I think not everything

is as accessible to someone who's not I don't

think you can speak on that though because you

haven't seen very much anime at all. Okay, I

guess I can't but I'm just saying like sometimes

a 90 -minute runtime that's a little bit more

simple to follow might be a little bit more of

an ease into that world and get them hooked and

then they can appreciate something like this.

I'm just saying I could see some people having

a problem with the length of it. I obviously

had a problem with the length of it because I

fell asleep in the last 15 minutes. I was enjoying

myself up until then. It was just too much. I

crashed up. What is is that like is this the

third or fourth one that I mean You're not you're

not alone, you know But Matt you didn't mention

like with you know, you mean with a princess

minute Okay, you're not necessarily inclined

to go back to me. Watch it. Is it something does

that kind of correspond with you? What do you

think Kevin's mentioning where? Part of it partially

the length partially the density of it where

it's not the most easy rewatch it's one you do

have to do work with because you're if you want

to kind of get everything out of it compared

to something like Kiki or My Neighbor Tortura,

which is your more simplistic plot Where this

is a lot more going on Do you think that maybe

contributes to the lack of desire to be watched

this compared to the other Miyazaki films? I

don't know if that's the root of it. It might

be the density because i might just be forgetting

um some of the more minor bits here and there

because there were some moments where i was almost

like oh i forgot that's how they did this oh

yeah that's what happens but i i don't know like

i i think it might just be because it is way

more intense like there is so much death and

so much like thrilling like are they going to

get out of this moment even though i know the

ending like it still can really grab me and emotionally

pull me in ways that I like a lot less than,

say, a totoro. Just saying. I know watching this

and just seeing, even from the opening monologue

that's done by Keith David, which is, you know,

talk about good voice work, throw Keith David

in there, you're gonna have that. There's obviously

a message here, and we've talked about previous

messages with Miyazaki films, and this, like,

again, very similar to Nausicaa, where you have

this... where nature and men's relationship with

nature plays a big part. How well do we feel

that part of the movie is handled? Like how well

is that aspect told? Does it risk becoming heavy

-handed? Is it well executed? Where do you guys

fall on that? What it has to say thematically

regarding man's relationship with nature? Does

it come off as species or do you feel like it

actually has something quite unique and interesting

to say? I think that it might not be anything

new and unique as far as an idea goes and what

it's trying to say. But I do think that in the

way it's portrayed to us in such a cool, unique

way with the nature actually having personified

elements in these animals that are gods and these

clans and things who have personalities and agendas

to save the forest. It's the forest and nature

fighting back to gain what, you know, what it

wants and what it needs to survive and against

the people, literally the people, because it's

humans who are taking their, you know, their

world away, really, because without the forest

these animals can't exist. So I think it was

a really cool way to show nature taking itself

back, much like what we had in Nausicaä with

the Ohms or whatever, but this was a much more

personified Viewing of that because the the gods

and animals did speak which was scary every Frickin

time like I was terrified of all of these god

animal things these like forest gods Because

when they were speaking it was just it was eerie

and what they had to say was, you know heavy

and deep And their voice they're saying it Like

they were really gonna eat that dude it was freaky

I didn't think it was heavy -handed necessarily.

I could see maybe some people saying that it's

not It's not something they haven't seen before

especially even just in the Miyazaki filmography

Obviously, it's like you guys have said there's

a lot of parallels to Nausicaa etc. In a lot

of ways you could draw Quite a few comparisons.

You probably write a whole paper on the similarities

comparing contrast in those two movies But I

didn't I never felt like it was heavy -handed.

I mean I It should be. It should be because the

visuals and the characters are so spot -on, but

I still never felt that it was heavy -handed,

so it worked for me. I thought it was a decent

balance between those things, so I thought it

was an effective way to portray what he was going

for, thematically. Matt, what about you? I feel

like it's not as heavy -handed as Nausicaa, and

a little bit, like... I don't know, I wanna say

more grown up? I don't know, because like Nausicaa

was very much like, we're like, humans are destroying

the world, but the world will live on even if

it has to destroy the humans. And this one's

kind of like, you need to find a symbiosis and

regardless of whether you're human or not, hatred

will corrupt you from the inside and ruin who

you are. Like it's got more, like it's a more

diverse, more textured, Like message that's again.

I don't think it's nearly as hitting on the head

with it But like it's still there. It's still

present. I feel like I didn't even get it the

first time I watched it. It was just to me It

was just an action fantasy movie to me the first

time and now upon reviewing I'm like, wow, this

does this does have a good message. That's interesting

Yeah, and I kind of agree with that I think like

I think the message is certainly apparent, but

I don't think it's Heavy -handed in the sense

in a bad way because I think when you really

look at it It's there's much more complexity

to it. Like you said a little bit more grown

up there where I don't think I think would you

have this consistent idea of balance is always

throughout this and a little from a character

standpoint to Kind of what it was trying to persuade

because I don't think there's any one in here

any even the nature gods to the the the humans

where When balance was removed, that's where

chaos kind of reigned, you know where he's starting

off with the opening sequence of you know, the

warthog god that's you know been consumed through

his hate and Turned to a demon. We know even

though he maybe has reasons to dislike the humans

by kind of going into that and losing that balance

and being consumed by that, he now turns into

a demon and basically is everything he tried

not to be. So I don't necessarily think it's

as simplistic as human's good, nature bad. I

think it's always about finding, be able to find

the balance in that. Even, you know, looking

at some of the The antagonist here now, even

though she is clearly not the most kind person

in the world and clearly evil in some ways There

are some aspects to her character that make you

kind of rethink your take on her. She's using

the people that are victimized from leprosy is

Giving them a purpose. She's using women who

have been you know, widowed because of nature

and like you see that they have a huge respect

for her and and not in the sense of where they're

going crazy, they seem legitimate in their fear.

To me, it makes a much more interesting story

because you can't necessarily point to one person

or another and say, this one's clearly evil,

this one's clearly bad. You saw that with Nausicaa,

but I feel like it's even better defined and

more interesting here compared to that. I think

he really sharpened his skills with this one.

Yeah, and I think too even within the groups

like not only is there not necessarily characters

that are you know altogether good or altogether

bad but even within the group they're not all

like it's not like group think it's not like

every single member of this clan is all thinking

this way and there was a little of that in some

of the other films where this one even within

the group so it's a little bit more diversity

you had You know some people that were helpful

to Ashitaka or some people that weren't you had

some people that were a little more You know

leaning one way or leaning the other way. So

I kind of appreciated that too the other thing

I didn't want to bring up too is I I didn't mention

a little bit with Ashika as a character and He

didn't make our top 100 animated list because

it's all about synergy but how do we feel he

is as a character because I I do wonder is does

he suffer from that Superman syndrome where basically

he's just Is he too good of a guy too good of

a person where it seems, you know be he's so

pure and always doing the right thing that Maybe

he's not more as interesting as we talked about

within that countdown those characters Where

the side characters are the ones that we gravitate

more to because they're more interesting. They're

more fun They're more dynamic. Is he one that

suffers from that too where he kind of is one

dimensional in a way or Do you think that he

as a character is a big part of what makes this

movie work? I think it's interesting now seeing

this and getting to really dive into does he

belong on our top 100 list and I'm not really

so sure now. I think he's a really good character

and I thought that his struggle was pretty cool

especially like his battle with his own arm was

interesting and had this weird idle hands but

better vibe. And I thought like when the shit

really popped off it was surrounding like what

he was doing to with his arm and his I don't

know because you want to say that he's you know

innately good but because of the things that

he does to kind of end that squabble between

the two and always just helping people i mean

right from the beginning we see him put himself

in danger to help somebody else so i think that's

that's a clear a clear mo here throughout for

him that he will put himself in danger to help

somebody regardless of what that's what's going

to do to him and in his plate but i don't think

that necessarily makes him boring i just i don't

know i i think that i was just so taken with

the like the forest gods and how creepy all that

was that i wasn't too focused on nashataka i

don't think he's a boring Character at all. I

don't I don't think that would be something I

would accuse him of I could see though an argument

being made that there's more of a character arc

with San or Santa but I think there's there's

more mystery with her character if there's more

of an arc from beginning to end with her character

so I could maybe see an argument that maybe she

is more deserving to be in the top 100 I should

have a really good character, but I don't really

know if you could really argue that there's a

there's a tremendous arc or Like what you guys

are saying, he's kind of good throughout, and

he doesn't necessarily ever sway from that too

much. So I mean, I can see an argument going

either way, but when he hulks out, that dude's

a badass. And he did some things that I wasn't

expecting. I was not expecting people's arms

to fly off when he was shooting stuff at him.

So I mean, that alone, maybe that warrants him

being on the top 100, because he had some crazy

powers. One arrow. Chop that dude's head off.

One arrow. Yeah. People's arms flying off. Not

to be messed with not to be trifled with for

sure Matt, how do you think Asuka compares to

a character like Nasuka that we're bringing up

or other other Miyazaki characters that we've

seen so far I guess I'm trying to think like

I feel like there isn't necessarily a lot of

growth than a lot of the Miyazaki movie like

did this question come up at all during Totoro

because it's like I Feel like that that's one

of my favorite movies of all time, but I don't

know that I would say anyone has a long on their

big character arc I think we mentioned like how

just narratively it was kind of more of a slice

of life in their relationships to their mom and

I think there there there is development in that

maybe not necessarily in the sense of like they're

becoming different people more so they're learning

to accept the situation that they're in I guess

it's development but in development in a different

way if that makes sense Well, I think you could

definitely make an argument if we're talking

about just me as a character in general though,

like I said before it was with with San, or San,

she not only is having an arc as far as where

she begins with and where she ends, but she's

also, even without that, is dealing with something

that may be a little bit more compelling as far

as her internal struggles. So there is something

that you can visually see and watch as this film

goes on, as how she's dealing with what's going

on inside of her and her feelings and her stereotypes

of things and groups and people, et cetera. So

you have that going on as well as her change

in her opinions throughout the film. So I mean,

I think there's some character arc there. I'd

have to kind of go back now that Matt brings

it up and kind of re -investigate, kind of go

back over our thoughts on some of those other

films to see where there's bigger arcs and where

there's not. Because a lot of times, like you're

saying, Dan, there is just a slice of life or

it's, you know, a character that they might be

staying the same throughout. And it's more so

the people that they come into contact with or

the supporting characters that they have to deal

with that provide the the differences and it's

not necessarily in their character because he's

he's a hero through and through he's obviously

dealing with the curse and trying to fix that

and trying to help people but There's not much

that he struggles with outside of the fact that

he has this this curse on him There is fish out

of the water situation where he is coming from

a very sheltered community into a new world and

you see that affect him, but in a way, I think

What's the lack of development a lack of change

is more of a testament to him as a character

where? There it shows just like the quality of

a person that he is as a character and which

may sound boring But I don't think it is when

you have so much chaos going around him I think

you need him as the anchor to give you something

to kind of judge other things by to understand.

Okay, where is the line where is you know the

right decision the wrong decision i think by

having him as a consistent anchor throughout

it gives you something to relate everything to

so you know okay obviously this person is not

is someone we can't trust or someone that is

much more of a Villainous attitude the way that

he's treating him. So I think that that works

in that end And and then you see instead of the

outside world that he's now in influencing him

It's very much the opposite where he is influencing

those that he encounters in a variety different

way like son probably the in the most drastic

ways and So I think that's kind of what I would

find intriguing about it where it's kind of a

flip on that type of story We talk we see a lot.

So and i think it's definitely needed i think

he needs to be that character i'm not faulting

him for being good throughout but i think he

needs to be more almost pure especially for the

purposes of san because if he's not if he gives

her anything to like to see to kind of prove

her own preconceptions and preconceived notions

on things and then it doesn't work so i mean

i think he she needed to come into contact with

someone that was as as genuine as As he's kind

of portrayed so I think it definitely serves

a purpose. So it's not that's why I don't think

it's boring No, I agree. I think boring is probably

too harsh But I could I could see that being

I bringing up because it's one a consistent criticism

that we were bringing up during those records

and I think it's something to consider and I

was curious where people fell because I think

a lot of a lot of the complaints could be Levered

his way, but I think it would be unjust because

I think it's not looking at the movie as a whole

Considering that so plus he looks badass. I mean

his mask and it may not be as cool writing a

Whatever. Is it an antelope? I forget what I

was like Ranger thing I was scared for the Ranger

things life quite a few times. That was a cool

character, too haven't touched on that but but

that character also in a very similar way to

Ashitaka is kind of this pure character throughout

that that is that's loyal and that is You know

steadfast in what he's doing So I think a good

accompaniment for Ashitaka talk about somebody

that looks cool though But the initial image

that we get with San when she's got blood all

around her mouth and whatnot with the wolf and

whatnot It's just ridiculous entrance. So that's

quite the visual Yeah, it's like, all right.

Well, she's clearly a badass. So I love the imagery

in general in this movie. I mean, you have warthogs

and war paint. I mean, that's come on now. I'm

kind of curious as to some of the other side

characters and who worked the best or who kind

of stood out the most for you guys because there's

a lot of different characters that play that

play minor parts from the different clans and

even some of the animal characters that was there

was there Kind of some highlights for you guys

outside of the main two characters that we've

been talking about the most I mean, not to repeat

what was just said, I think the first character

I ever latched onto was his elk. Realism that

Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli gets with their animals

and their universe is always surprising. No matter

how many times I watch it, I'm like, oh, I forgot

about that element. And so I know that I would

say that I latch onto the characters, unless

you count the elk as a character. But I think

the things that I always love is his elk. And

then the Kodama, like the forest spirits. Oh

yeah. Those guys like fucking get me every time.

They're so adorable, hilarious, cute. I love

them. And they're creepy at the same time. They

creep me the hell out when they did that like

clicking thing where all their heads were ticking

around. I was like, what's going on? I too though,

I liked the wolves especially. I thought all

the wolves were pretty cool characters. I thought

the boars were done well, even if they're not

necessarily as likable. I didn't necessarily

care for the apes as much. They were a little

bit, like Dan's a little too scary and a little

bit too muted in the background for me to kind

of feel too much about them, outside of just

those guys are creepy. But I did think there

was some of the supporting characters in the

Iron City, Iron Town, I thought were... They

added some humor, they added some drama at some

points. I thought they did a good job of kind

of having a variety of characters. And it wasn't

just like, hey, this is the token funny guy that's

always going to be funny, or here's the token

whatever girl. I thought they did a good job

of kind of mixing it up and kind of sprinkling

it around so that it worked for me out. Although

the outfits were a little interesting by some

of them. Pretty racy. All the ladies, they had

to keep tucking their boobies in. it was like

they were super horny they couldn't keep their

clothes on so they just ran around these like

bathrobes all day it was weird like they they

live in a forge that's incredibly hot and so

they wear like robes that are loose fitting so

they can release their body heat and they also

don't have you know inhibitions about their bodies

because most of them are former prostitutes i

actually love that it's like a very like again

Miyazaki's world always feels so lived in like

writing one or two hours and so like we see like

this really really imagined world where it's

like yeah these are all qualities and traits

that I would expect in this world that are condensed

down into just like background things that you

don't even think about. Did anybody wish that

there would have been a little bit more attention

to or a little bit more towards the latter half,

kind of going back to the tribe that Ashitaka

was a part of, because obviously they mentioned

that he's one of the last ones, or that that

tribe has kind of disappeared from, at least

from knowledge from most other clans and tribes

around the area. I was kind of hoping that they

would kind of re... Touch on that at some point

and kind of said it would play a bigger part

than it did I mean it wasn't a nothing I fault

the movie for it's not a anything I subtract

points for anything but I don't know if anybody

else was it was more interested in more story

about what happened with that tribe and and that

type of thing or if it was just kind of Find

the way it was for most of you guys since he

was like kicked out of it I don't think really

matters because he could he could go back there

like they made him cut his hair and leave like

He's not allowed to go back. So we're not gonna

see anything more because that's you know, who

we're following is that's not a part of his journey

anymore Yeah, I think I feel like that kind of

corresponds with what he had to go through because

it was you didn't have to leave that behind so

I mean, I'm certainly there is part of that that

I'm interested in because even we're even we

watching this of seeing it before I'm like, I

think I remember them coming back in the play

what they didn't but I'm fine with it because

I think it if He were to go back and these people

were to suddenly welcome him back it I think

he kind of loses something a little bit. I think

it wasn't as much as but Yeah, I didn't necessarily

think that I wanted the him to go back to the

tribe or the tribe necessarily Come back into

play. I was more so because there was a couple

times where hinted where people were trying to

figure out where he was from or you know there

was almost like the fact that he was trying to

hide it and I was I was wondering if that would

come back up more so that someone would figure

out who he was a part of and or that it would

play a bigger part in something down the road

I wasn't necessarily expecting the tribe themselves

to be like seen again I guess. They do they do

make it seem like there is a like some sort of

legend within the tribe but Then they didn't

really touch upon it after that. So yeah, I mean

I guess Perhaps there's just so much else going

on that they didn't go after that further But

honestly never really came to my mind If I had

to choose between more of the tribe and like

more arms getting cut off and stuff I would have

picked more arms getting cut off More wolf war

battles. Yeah It was there I was the only one

that said anything negative about it. So was

there anything else that anybody had? That was

a nitpick or anything that they would have preferred

slightly different or anything I would have preferred

that tree spirit's face not to be so freaking

scary When his face was all red his eyeballs

were red when he came walking across the water

and he was just like staring at you I was like,

oh my god, he can see into my soul. It was freaky

to me like it was almost like the first time

you see Darth Maul or If you guys have seen I

think it's insidious like the first insidious

that red thing that red demon thing is just sitting

at the table behind him like freak me out and

this was definitely scary like it wasn't blinking

just staring at me i don't know it just scared

the crap out of me a lot of scary things in this

film it was scary but you know i got on that

so uh nobody else was scared by that i was freaked

out it's a little freaky i don't know if i watched

this when i was in middle school and i don't

remember being freaked out ever what I'm a terrified

little boy man My one criticism says maybe was

that you know, we talked about the relationships

between characters and I always felt like the

relationship between Ashitaka and lady Bashi

like It was hard to figure out. I felt like,

you know, at times they were okay with each other,

suddenly they're at war. Like, I guess maybe

that one seemed to, like, fluctuate a lot. Like,

it seemed the length people would go to. Like,

for example, you have the scene where Princess

Mananoke or San and all the wolves attack the

Iron City. And, you know, it felt like he's able

to kind of walk out of that. And it seemed like,

based upon Everything that they all the hatred

they had for for her that that wouldn't have

happened But I do think they legitimize it enough,

but I don't know I was I've been racking my brain

about something negative to say cuz I was we're

getting into this I'm like I'm just gonna sound

like you know someone who's just like overly

hyping this movie But it's as really I've been

struggling really the things that were negative

take backs for this I can see that a little I

can see that a little bit though because you

do have the fact that at one point they do seem

to be so at odds with each other. And then he

clearly takes Son and exits and almost spits

in their face as far as what they're trying to

do. But then he's at times completely welcome

to just... be there and helping the town or going

through things or communicating with them. It's

like, is he, are you guys friendly with him or

are you guys viewing him as an enemy? So I mean,

there was a little confusion as far as some of

that went because it didn't seem to be clear

when the transition happens to, is he someone

at the town? despises or someone that the town

welcomes well at first you see they all love

him because He brought back, you know these people

but they're also still scared of him because

he's an outsider and then on top of it He punches

their lady in the stomach or something and knocks

her out and so they're they're still grateful

for what he did But now they're still a little

there there now they've become leery because

of this Actions that right it was more so the

the the things that happened right after that

action So right after he knocked her out and

right after he runs off a son That is like after

that that he kind of comes back and they still

him like with open arms without any problem which

I guess I was like I was surprised there wasn't

any hesitation there maybe because of the situation

that they were in and you know, they're being

attacked but that that that to me was the only

thing where it's like I'm surprised that They

didn't fear him a little more seeing what he

did and seeing that he's clearly affected by

something that is either You know evil in some

way or pardon, you know part of the forest god

or what have you so that that was my just my

one nitpick that I could really come up with

Matt did you have anything or did you have anything

that you would even a minor detail that you would

change if you could or perfect as is I Mean perfect

is a strong word but Don't know I like it. I

feel like I'm not bothered as much by a lot of

these things the only thing that really like

even it comes to my mind even a little bit is

the When he gets to the town and then there's

like the whole like gold and then the guys like

I'm gonna latch on to this and then like oh There's

robbers, but we'll just run like I feel like

that could have been condensed down to just like

the monk being like hey You know, I've heard

tales about these people, these red elks, and

that's a fancy bull you've got there. Like, he

could have gotten to the point where he's, like,

worming his way into Prince Aki's life without

having as much there. But, I mean, that's, again,

like, such a minor nitpicky thing. Like, there's

small, small, small things. Do we ever actually

hear anybody called Princess Monoke in this entire

thing? Um, they do say that she's, uh... She's

the What did they call it? They use the word

Mananoke and she is I can't remember what they

say though They use a word like she's not the

ghost or not the symbol of it But she's they

do use it one time in the introduction of her

to one of the characters. So I miss that Sounds

like who the fuck is Princess Mananoke and when

the hell she get in here? I wonder if kind of

as we make our way through this Retrospective

and obviously we've given positive reviews to

just about everything We've seen even the movies

that we have even the folks that we have not

praised as highly one of us individually We've

still generally landed on a positive score for

it And and so obviously we seem to be fans of

what he's doing I'm wondering if I'm obviously

most people are fans of his and there's not a

lot of detractors out there, but I wonder almost

if, is there a group of people out there that

criticize him in the same way that maybe, and

this is gonna sound, people are gonna take this

the wrong way, but in the same way that sometimes

George Lucas gets criticized as someone who has

so many ideas for the worlds that he's creating

and so many details and things that they wanna

deal with that at times maybe he I don't want

to say is his worst enemy because I don't think

it's a I don't think anything he's done is bad

but where sometimes he is he's such a creative

force that he doesn't know when to scale back

at all or he doesn't know where there's little

bits and pieces where they might not be as necessary

for the for the theme or the story that he's

going for that we end up with a with a few you

know lengthier films or I'm not saying Cultural

thing though, I don't know like is is that just

I'm not saying it's my I'm not saying it's my

criticism either I'm just saying is there a group

of people out there or is it has the criticism

ever been levied against him that he's almost

too creative for his own good at times and there's

nobody reigning him in I don't think so because

I never feel like anything ever feels like unnecessary

to an extreme or even to a Minor detail there

might be things here and there, you know, you

know, this is long What's like two hours and

some minutes and I feel like considering the

story that was being told The length never really

bought bother meaning Nausicaa was, you know

under two hours and I and I think too is is that

unlike say someone like George Lucas I think

where Maybe Tarantino it would be considering

the last person where You could argue. Maybe

he relies on a lot of the same tricks here and

there and I think that's I think you could you

could say that we know There are we talked about

with Nausicaa and there are similar Aspects of

all these movies, you know, which is I don't

think it's necessarily a bad thing. But I think

each is Still their own individual property.

I don't feel like I'm ever really watching the

same movie twice with him I mean, I can definitely

tell it's coming from studio Ghibli. You can

definitely tell it's coming from from here Masaki

But a lot of that's due to the quality of it.

So I I've not heard heard personally I don't

know if I've seen much criticism with them because

I do feel like He is very deliberate when he

makes a movie. He's not one that's making a movie

every year. A lot of work goes into it. And I

feel like there's a lot of pride in what Studio

Ghibli does, and they don't necessarily throw

their tag on everything. So because of that,

like, yeah, I don't think he maybe would get

the criticism. And he also, he does always seem

like a very humble guy. Like, he's not someone

who, you know, he seems... It would be like criticizing

Walt Disney in a way. And you could probably

criticize Walt Disney for different things, but

when it came to his imagination and just what

he did for film, I think it's hard to really

find a lot of fault. With him and even better

with Miyazaki because I think you can all are

greatly argued that Miyazaki's made better movies

You've had the most experience or probably the

most the longest history with Miyazaki I'm just

trying to think of you know because we're reaching

about you know We're halfway through his filmography,

and we basically have glowing praise of him I'm

just I'm just wondering if there is any other

What do people fault this guy for or is it more

of a just a universal praise? Have you in the

time that you've spent watching these films?

with people or discussing this films where people

come across anybody that is a detractor and what

is their argument against him or or why would

somebody not like his style? I've never heard

anyone say anything like about how they don't

like a Miyazaki or Ghibli film like as a like

that's not bad the only people I've ever heard

like say anything are people that are like I

don't like anime or I don't like you know we're

in animation like like but like other than I

think he might be my favorite director and, like,

everyone I show is pretty surprised by just how

good all of these movies are. How, like, imagined

and amazing they are. I don't know. I've not

had anything bad said. Like I said, I haven't

seen all his films, so that's a good sign. the

last half that we're gonna be watching. I was

just wondering if we're being too nice or if

we're missing something, but maybe there's something

to miss. I mean, the criticisms I've seen in

some of the movies we talked about with like,

with My Neighbor Totoro and some of those movies

is that there's not much story or plot, but I

think we've kind of expressed why that's not

necessarily a problem because that may be just

your expectation when it comes to a movie where

some people... You know expect more so things

like Princess Mananoke and when you get something

like my neighbor torture Oh, that's not that

it's like, okay this what is what is this? So

there's always a danger of overhyping things.

I'm sure there are people that maybe don't enjoy

his movies enough maybe they feel like they're

overly too cute for their own good maybe because

even with Princess Mananoke that had a lot of

brutal violence there they had cute cuddly characters

here and there with like the spirits of the forest

and uh I didn't have an issue with it like I

thought it was it was fine but I don't if there's

anything that's the only thing I could think

of is that maybe people feel like uh some of

his movies are overrated due to kind of the expectation

we have when it comes to the idea of like the

quality of movie is all dependent upon the complexity

of the plot where I don't necessarily think that's

the case I mean it happens to be that Princess

Marinalke is my Favorite of his films and it's

probably the most narrative is probably the strongest

or at least the most dense But I don't that's

maybe not necessarily even why I love it enough.

I love it because it has people riding wolves

and that's all I need I think it too. It does

help especially when we're watching it as the

way we're doing it in the Chronological kind

of going through the filmography that I think

it's good that there's some more simplistic fun

still There's still depth to those films. There's

still thematic resonance, but I don't know if

you necessarily would want to watch these films

in the wrong order. I don't know if you'd want

to go from Nausicaa to Mananoke, you know, start

off with Lupin and kind of do those three right

in order. I think it's good to have some of the

Kiki and Totoro and stuff like that mixed in.

So yeah, it's like, you know, maybe you feel

like more like Richard Linklater movie. That's

just, you know, kind of basic and just. Let you

kind of enjoy the world or maybe something like

like a peter jackson lord of the rings that is

Just you know full of mythology and the entire

world like matt mentioned that feels lived in

That you could like this is just the beginning

of something that you could even expand upon

it further And you know since he isn't unlike

disney and unlike other amated Films we've seen

that just shoot out every, you know sequel after

sequel after sequel. He doesn't make sequels.

He makes like he He's all about just making the

next unique original thing so that may be why

he you know There aren't there isn't much criticism

for him because it seems like his major goal

isn't is to make great films unlike Maybe some

other studios that have differing goals Yeah,

I agree But anything one one thing that's actually

One that's actually upsetting to me is that there

was a short that was a sequel to Totoro. That's

only a Available in the studio Ghibli museum

in Japan and I'm very upset that I'll never see

that You know, it'll be unlocked online eventually.

I'm sure maybe Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure

it's been there for forever though, and I've

never come across it even with looking Maybe

maybe someone will uh, it just gives you a good

reason to go to Japan basically Yeah All right,

anything else anyone want to bring up before

bringing this episode to a close? I think that

even when um People were being You know not so

nice or not necessarily people but like the wolves

and stuff even though they were attacking those

people I still felt bad when that one got like

shot and set on fire and stuff. I was like Jesus

and then they're getting like shot in the face

and That one time when that wolf grabbed Ashitaka's

head. Yeah and just shook his head. I was like

damn But I think that what stole the show for

me definitely was the forest gods and the impact

on that. So I think that I definitely want to

be like shut up already with this theme and won't

you kind of teach me here and just show me some

cool stuff. But I was definitely into the story

and it involved me with the way it did it regardless

of the... the subject. I think for me the the

biggest takeaway from this film, and it's not

like we haven't said this about all the films,

but visually I think this one even elevated to

another level even higher than we've gotten with

some of the other grand visuals that we've seen

in Miyazaki films, but even just the two characters,

the two main characters with San and Ajitaka,

I think the visuals on them are so amazing. Easy

characters to latch onto from that aspect, but

then like we were talking about with the boars

and the wolves and the forest and the spirits

and things like that, there's so much visually

attractive things in this film that it just kind

of is the icing on the cake to an interesting

story and all the action and the violence and

kind of the Extreme aspects of that. I think

it's a good package. It all works well together

Awesome. Alrighty. Well with that said I'm in

a starting with you final thoughts and overall

grade for Princess Manonoke Despite the length

this is one that I would like to revisit again

sometime And it surprised me really I didn't

know what I was getting into definitely didn't

think it was gonna be this by any means so I

think I'm gonna give it a nine Very nice nine

nine for Amanda Kevin over final thoughts and

overall grade I'm gonna echo a little bit of

what she said I do think it does require a second

watch you guys have had kind of the benefit of

seeing this film a couple times, so I think it's

probably easier for you guys to dissect. And

on a first viewing, I definitely need to re -watch

just to kind of solidify all the things that

were happening and going on. But I think it's

a film worth re -watching. Like I said, the visuals

are great, the action's great. There's a little

bit of comedy here and there. This is, I don't

know if it's my favorite one we've seen. Thus

far because I really need to go back and kind

of dissect all of them, but I would I would venture

to say just Right away that it's probably at

the top of my list. So I would give this one

a nine as well I'm at final thoughts and overall

grade Well One thing I usually complain about

with the anime is that there's a lacking of good

like fantasy Things because fantasy is my genre.

That's what I get into and this one has got so

many great Fantasy elements, it's got almost

everything I want in a movie like it hits all

my spots It's not my favorite Miyazaki movie

like it is for you, Dan But it's still a really

high on my list of anything. So I mean I'm gonna

have to give it a 9 as well Well, I guess I will

be the top rated for today and I will give it

a 10 out of 10 I am NOT scared. Like I said,

it is my favorite out of all the films. I just

I love the animation I love the world. I just

you know something about You know forest gods

that are gigantic animals that just works for

me for whatever reason I love the characters

and when I had to stretch as much as I could

to find something wrong that that tells me that

It's a movie that I really do adore a great deal

and you know watching it over and over again

I think it's it has I think benefit for rewatch

because there is a lot to take in and a lot to

kind of view and understand so again 10 out of

10 for me and you know Interesting as well when

we get into our next film with spirit our way

with this which is technically Often viewed as

his most celebrated of all of his films So a

lot to live up to so we'll see that as we get

what to see too because we got three nines and

a ten here so that That one's supposed to be

one of his best or his best. We'll have to see

if How many of us can go up or stay where we're

at? I wanted to butt in there for a second because

we did have some news to announce, which was

actually that Mr. Hayao Miyazaki himself has

been listening to our retrospective. As he pointed

out on Twitter. Yeah. Coming back out of retirement

to make more films. So I guess the retrospective

will have one, at least one more episode than

we thought it would originally. Yeah, and as

Matt also pointed out it looks like spirited

away I don't know if it corresponds with that

news, but that's also gonna be re -released in

theaters kind of I guess as a special event and

so You if you have the chance and opportunity,

maybe we can actually see it on the big screen

who knows but not some YouTube ghetto version

No, don't blame me that I had to go to the links

that I had to go to fine movies. Okay Alrighty,

but we like to hear what you have to say about

this film and our retrospective thus far. You

can do so by going to GeekCast Radio and commenting

on the episode post. We're on Facebook and Twitter

as well. Just search GeekCast Radio also. The

show is on Twitter at CinemaGeekCast. You guys

are also on Twitter. Amanda, what is your Twitter

name? HardCandyMandyEyesNoWise. Kevin? Mine is

at OptimusSolo. And math. Am at Fridley sent

and I am at movie revolt But that'll be it for

today's look at Hayao Miyazaki retrospective

join us next week time as we discuss Spirited

away. Thank you for listening