Quentin Tarantino Retrospective The Castle of Cagliostro Review

Hey guys, this is Rob Paulsen and you're listening

to the Deepcast Radio Network. Hello and welcome

to episode 92 of The Cinnamon Eats. As we continue

our Heyo Miyazaki retrospective, today we will

be reviewing his very first film, Castle of Calliostro.

I think I said that correctly. At least as close

as I'm gonna get. Joining me today, as always,

is Kevin Ohtomisolo. How's it going, man? I think

you got it right. Yeah, I like to think so. Also,

of course, we have hard candy Mandy. How's it

going? Heyo! Today we will be continuing our

Hayao Miyazaki retrospective. Last week we did

our introduction kind of giving you our background

into him as a director, what we know about his

work, what we don't. So if you've not listened

to that episode, I would for sure advise going

back. checking that out. What we're going to

be doing is reviewing each of his films. So we're

starting with this very first one, Castle of

Cagliostro. Going into this, what we'd like to

do, just kind of simply that, is review this

movie. I guess, Kevin, I think it maybe makes

sense to start with you here, because knowing

this is your very first Hayao Miyazaki movie,

knowing there is a lot of anticipation going

into this, what were your general thoughts on

this first film? Well, I feel like it's kind

of like a weird Film and I'm not saying that

in a good or a bad way. It's it's a weird way

to start a retrospective in a way because This

is delving in or jumping into a franchise that

exists Matt, this is the third Lupin film. Is

that correct? No I don't know where it fits in

the order of Lupin films. It might be the third

one. I think Mamo is the first one. But as a

longtime Lupin the third fan, even the very first

episode of the very first series has been four

Lupin the third main television series and then

about 30 movies, I think. Even the very first

episode of the very first show. just jumps in

like you're supposed to know the characters.

Gotcha. So that's why you don't get a long detailed

explanation on anyone. Right. Everyone just acts

like they know each other because that's how

it's always been for every one of the shows.

Gotcha. But this is not the first property. This

wasn't the first thing that came along. No, no.

And he had directed like half or more of the

first series TV shows too. Gotcha, so it's kind

of an interesting like introduction to his work

and his style in a already established franchise

and I'll be interested to see then kind of the

transition into some of the more standalone films

But it was an interesting I've never seen any

of the of the Lupin stuff TV shows movies anything

so it was introduction to that franchise as well

as an introduction to Miyazaki so I Overall,

I'm kind of undecided in a way. Like I'm a little

middle of the road I guess with this one so far

because I'm still trying to put it all together

and kind of form a solid opinion. There's parts

of it I really enjoy and there's parts of it

that didn't work quite as well with me that I

had hoped. So I'm interested to see kind of where

all you guys stand and kind of bounce everything

off of each other to see where I come down on

it eventually. But there's like I said a lot

of stuff I really like and a lot of stuff that

kind of left me not so high on it. So Amanda,

it looks like Kevin Neager helped to determine

what he thinks of this movie. I always go to

Amanda for how I should form my opinion on most

films that I watch. Yeah, before he says anything

about what he feels about the movie, he's like,

so what did you think? Wait, can I have a second

first? I was hoping to enlist you guys as help

too. pretty low on my Miyazaki knowledge and

I was going into this with an open mind and I'm

still really trying to decide if I like this

movie or not so there's a couple really awesome

things that I did enjoy but there's a couple

things that I just couldn't get past either so

we'll have to see. Interesting, interesting.

Well, Matt, again, it feels like everyone's relying

on you today with your Lupin knowledge and your

experience with this film. So can you guide them

into why they should have enjoyed it? That's

a fun way to put it. While I was watching this,

I had a moment where I was like, this isn't a

good first Lupin, this isn't a good first Miyazaki.

Because he's working in a franchise that though

he's had some level of control in, it's not his,

it's very clearly not as, it's not Miyazaki -like.

It doesn't have a lot of the element. I'm sure

if you're looking really hard, you can see little

things. And certain things about the animation.

really reminded me of Miyazaki, and I know he

was an animator for some time. So, like, it's

got elements, but it's not Miyazaki. And it's

almost upsetting, because it's like, now you

can't have your first introduction to Lupin on

a way better thing, which upsets me on many levels,

because I think I have, like, 40 plus Lupin DVDs.

and this was not a good intro. I mean, it's not

terrible, and it's, I think, the first Lupin

movie I've watched, even though I own a dozen

Lupin movies. I just haven't watched them all,

because I just don't have time for that. But,

and that was nice to see, you know, because it's

just like the difference between a Star Trek

movie and a Star Trek episode, where it's like,

you have more time, you can do more, you have

a bigger budget, that's cool. But it wasn't,

I don't know, it's not the best, but it's also

not terrible. Seems like we're a lot of us are

saying some similar stuff Dan. Are you with us?

Are you? Strongly entrenched one way or the other

it's not like yeah that happened that movie that

we watched I would say if if I were gonna fall

down and on one side or the other certainly would

probably be more on the positive end Starting

with maybe I was just majorly impressed with

the animation just thinking of other films that

came out around the same time of 1979 and I'm

thinking of like Well, I guess it's not exactly

the same time but when I think of animation around

that era I think of something like Fritz the

cat which is a lot earlier but it's just it's

so choppy and not nearly as like crisp and fluid

as this animation and I think it could legitimately

holds up in the action sequences are really well

staged Yeah, obviously animation has come far

since then but pretty well out of time. I have

seen other hey Miyazaki films Never anything

regarding loop on I annoyed It was regarding

a franchise or there's this character has this

long lineage of anything like that watching it

I did get that feeling because you're watching

it and I feel like okay I feel like these people

like had got together beforehand and like I wasn't

part of that because They all just have these

relationships that seem well entrenched with

one another and these little ins and outs But

I still understood who they were as characters

for the most part like some of the more detailed

intricacies between them, maybe I didn't know,

but the script was done well enough where I could

understand where they stand and who they are

as people. And I did end up really enjoying Lupin

as a character, and it does have me interested

in checking out more of Lupin's stuff. So it

did succeed in that end. The film itself, I think

the story... Is fine. It seems like it's a little

thematically blight I would say it just seems

to be like, you know a simple adventure film,

which is fine There's just nothing all that Tremendous

about it and I guess coming into this seeing

other in a way It's almost it hurts me knowing

how having previous experience with Miyazaki

because i'm so used to his Insane epics and just

like the way he could his imagination is so vivid

with the most of his other films with this I

didn't necessarily see that but again He's also

working with another world where he he has limitations

that are just put upon him because of that So

I don't know if that helps either Amanda or Kevin

out at all regarding their opinion. Well You

guys both have mentioned Matt and Dan you guys

both have kind of mentioned as far as what how

well or maybe not well this represents Miyazaki's

other other films and kind of his style etc and

obviously like when we did the Tarantino spotlight

retrospective I was aware of the stuff that he

is known for and we kind of Went into that for

with every film kind of some of the themes some

of the motifs that he is known for I'm curious

from you guys since you've seen other Miyazaki

stuff like what parts of his Director directing

style Do you see in here? Because you've said

some of the stuff that you're not seeing quite

as much as you would in and some of his other

films But what aspects of his his style do come

through in this? That's a good question. I guess

I would say maybe just in the way He introduces

characters because even when I watch all here

in here and Miyazaki characters I always feel

the world has been there for a while. I'm just

gonna getting into it now but in a way it makes

you play catch -up like it's like it's gonna

go from the get -go and you're and you're trying

to figure it out as a go so i do feel like that's

one consistent with him and i would say the other

thing that comes to mind is just preparation

of the characters even though this is a preview

this is another property he was able to introduce

him quickly and you're able to understand who

they are rather chivilly shortly shortly after

first being introduced to them and i feel like

that's usually consistent with them but i could

you know i don't know if that's me just seeing

something that's not there i don't know what

about that random samurai dude like goemon yeah

he's he's one of the original four okay that

would be nice to know yeah like also he's just

there yeah that that was the that was one of

the characters where i'm like i didn't that's

when i felt like okay this has got to be something

else beforehand because that dude just showed

up and i have no idea who he is so i don't know

matt was there anything that you could think

of that you feel like is classic mikazaki in

this Oh, I don't know. I can definitely echo

what you said about the characters. An interesting

thing about Lupin the Third's animation lifetime

is it started off with one director on the original

show, and after a couple of episodes, I guess

they decided to... Like, I don't know quite what

happened, but they decided to get rid of him

and bring in Miyazaki. And when they brought

Miyazaki in, they tasked him with changing the

characters a little bit, each character. So like

Lupin was originally a little more murderous,

and Fujiko was a little more of a sex symbol

and a little less independent as a woman. And

so he like... Even though these are pre -made

characters created by Monkey Punch in the original

manga, like, they've evolved to a point where

Miyazaki's almost made them his own at this point.

And so, like, I mean, knowing that, I can realize

that, but I really honestly do not know what

a director does in an animated feature. Like,

I know that ultimately the vision is theirs.

They decide what goes in, what doesn't go in,

and they do tweaks, but I don't know what they

do and don't do. And so I don't know the hallmarks

to even look for, let alone point out. Well,

maybe we'll find them as we go through. You know,

it's funny, you mentioned Monkey Punch as far

as the creator of the characters, etc. I was

trying to read up and trying to educate myself

a little bit on this, and he supports what you

said as far as his vision on the characters,

because there's a quote from him. He said that

his vision of Lupin differs from Miyazaki's.

I wouldn't have had him rescue the girl. I would

have had him rape her. so well that escalated

quickly yeah so i mean apparently he had a much

different vision and then miyazaki maybe a little

bit more tame compared to there's still a lot

of lecherous illegal shit going on in this movie

so it wasn't a far cry from his original here's

that's great about lupin is that he is not the

good guy he's the protagonist right we're supposed

to root for him but he is a thief and a lech

like he wants two things he wants money and he

wants sex And he's willing to work for either

of them. But really, by the second series, which

is the longest running Lupin series in the one

that I got introduced in, he's more like an old

grandpa. Like, oh, grandpa. He's not holding

women down. He may throw a hand here or there

to grab something. But early on, it was way worse.

And this is in that middle period where they're

slowly changing him from rapey to just like,

I don't know, silly. Rapey is a real word. I

use it constantly. Rapey and lech. That's all

I'm saying. Like, I was like, man, this lecherous,

nasty... Like old count dude, and then there's

a scene the flashback scene where he's um showing

when he first met this little girl and i'm like

well this is creepy and lecherous also like he

says i'm gonna interrogate you later on my chambers

that was yeah like and we got a sedate hose now

like pretty sure that's illegal also like to

sedate the chick you're trying to marry so she

can't run away if you're in a tiny baltic european

country the laws might be different i'm sorry

where were we because i was trying to figure

that out for the entire un just puked all over

this movie and this is what came out it I mean,

they said that it was they said the name of it.

Well, they said like 700 different things, though.

And I was so confused because we had the Japanese

police and a Japanese army skeleton. But then

they talk about Paris headquarters. They talk

about Roman aqueducts, Interpol and like three

other different things. And I was just like,

where are we? And there's always the flags of

like eight countries everywhere. Yeah, that was,

I don't know quite what was up with the flags

everywhere. But Interpol is the international

police that takes people from everywhere. And

Zenigata is the Lupin III expert because Lupin

III does a lot of Japanese crimes. So he's working

with Interpol to follow Lupin around the country.

That's a common theme in every episode. So that's

why you have a Japanese policeman working for

Interpol, but the Interpol office is in Paris.

I get that being a little mix up. yeah i don't

know well i think the other thing that and it

may be just because my ignorance and my inexperience

with uh anime but they don't necessarily depict

different nationalities or ethnicities in a in

a way that decipher There could be someone that's

supposed to be, you know, whatever. From certain

European countries, there could be people from

different Asian countries, and they look exactly

alike as far as the animation goes. Like, there's

a couple Japanese characters in here that I would

never know that they were Japanese unless they

said so. Yeah. What about Fujiko, the blonde

chick, right? Like, makes no sense. Well, Fujiko

usually has black or brown hair. That's actually

one thing that really upset me. I was like, that

doesn't look like Fujiko. it's she's um a con

artist and so she changes her look a lot and

so like like to my knowledge fujiko is japanese

goyaman is japanese i think jeegan is supposed

to be american but i never really know and then

lupin is french and then zenegata is again japanese

But is that something that is that only did you

are you guys able to pick up more than I am like

Are you guys able to see I guess the subtleties

of the animation to depict different? Ethnicities

amongst the characters or is that just an anime

thing where you it's kind of ambiguous. I felt

there were certainly Differentiations between

them some of them like yeah, it was hard to tell

but Lupin that definitely didn't feel Japanese

He did release he seemed mixed race of some some

kind, but I don't think maybe it was super distinct.

But at times it was like the the the count seemed

very European, like, yeah. And good stuff. I

do feel like when the male characters more so,

I think the American characters, there's more

of a difference. But with the female characters,

they're not nearly as distinct, I would say they

see their characteristics seem to be similar.

no matter what race they are but again that could

be we're not there are not many females and one

of them is being a carnivore so you don't really

know uh she's purposely disguising herself so

that might be the reason why didn't the count

look exactly like crane the brain from ninja

turtles like his face i don't know if i'd go

with exactly but i could definitely see some

some similarities to me it was exact and it creeped

me out i didn't like it they could be related

i could see that i guess But who doesn't want

to start an animated movie with somebody screaming,

that son of a bitch, I was not prepared for that.

I'm like, whoa, this is going to be like that.

Set the tone. I'm like, all right, at least we

know what kind of ride we're on now. Oh, yeah,

it's definitely very clear from the beginning

because the amount of cursing guns, beer and

cigarettes in the first sequence is very noticeable.

They're able to get away with a lot in this film

that you wouldn't necessarily expect. Or maybe

it's just because we've been so induced to this

censored animation that we get over here and,

you know, all the different parental groups that

kind of shaded everything while we were growing

up. So it's interesting to kind of see some of

this. Dan, you mentioned like something like

Fritz the Cat. I mean, it wasn't necessarily

uncommon for that time to have stuff that isn't

necessarily rated G in the animated world, but

we're so used to the Disney -fied or kind of

the fluffy stuff that it's it was interesting

to see that right from the get -go and it's not

just the the you know the cigarettes and the

depiction of alcohol and the cursing and all

that other stuff but even some of the lines like

at one point we don't need your orientals came

out of one of the characters mouth something

we probably wouldn't get today so it was just

interesting kind of seeing the no -holds -barred

aspect of it yeah which actually that kind of

it's related point but I know when we were in

the introduction episode You mentioned how, Matt,

you mentioned how a lot of Miyazaki films do

tie into Japanese culture. Obviously this one's

different because it's a different property,

but I don't know if like there seemed to be a

pretty distinct feeling towards this, like a

negative feeling towards Europeans when it came

to this movie. I don't know if that's part of

it was me trying to figure out. Thinking we were

in Japan the entire time and then realizing that's

not the case at all that we're in Europe But

I don't know if there's anything of that nature

where you feel like if you not put you on the

spot if you could if there's anything you know

or at least even from Lupin himself that is tied

to the culture of Japan I don't know necessarily

About that. I do know that a lot of Japanese

culture and media has a very like foreigners

don't understand us outlook Like, that's very

apparent in a lot of things. It's not at all

unbelievable to say in some time in the 70s that

Europeans might have had a negative opinion on

Japan. And so the idea of having someone just

be racist towards someone, like, I don't know,

like, I don't want to say it's a fresh air to

have that level of realism, because, I mean,

it's obviously an ugly and dark thing. But it's

also, to have that level of realism in an animated

feature is, uh... is stunning. It's interesting

and it's definitely a choice that was made and

left in when they dubbed it. Because the dub

isn't that old. It's not from the 70s like the

movie is. Yeah and I guess that would be an interesting

thing too because I did read somewhere that the

language does change in some respects from one

version to the other. So I don't know if the

English dub is Are you saying it does justice

compared to what the original language is or?

I've not watched the original one with Subtitles

like with I can't remember what they call but

like essentially just direct translation subtitles

I've not watched that so I can't comment on that

but one thing that is very common among loop

on the third things more like less so Lupin than

some other ones, but definitely more so Lupin

than the average anime, is that there are cultural

references in Lupin the Third that will not translate.

Just like, cause you know, if he makes a reference

to a Japanese actress from the 70s, you're not

gonna know. So in a lot of the dubs, they do

change that to be a more accurate one for an

American audience. Usually, usually a more recent.

American or European character to then make the

reference and joke stick Gotcha the whole time

going back to the fact that this is when you

keep saying like Lupin the third I'm like, okay

This this definitely I should have looked this

up or something because the whole time I was

like who the fuck is Lupin How does he know so

much like oh, this is written in dead language

Can you read it? Of course I can and he just

like happens to have all these gadgets in his

belt like fucking Batman Who the fuck is this

gangster and why is he such a playboy? And I

was that was I think my one of my biggest struggles

I was like, who the fuck are you lupine? Just

tell me so So I've always called them arsene,

but it's french and I think they pronounce in

the movie arsene arsene lupine the first Was

a gentleman thief created at the turn of the

the 19th or the turn of the the 20th century

in France written in all French And I would love

to read the books, but I can't find decent translations

at a reasonable price he was created by a French

author to be essentially the opposite of Sir

Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes okay to

the point where eventually The original author

just started writing Sherlock Holmes into his

books to fight Lupin. And Lupin was one of the

few people who could get past Sherlock Holmes.

And eventually there was like a lawsuit and he

had to change his name. And I believe he changed

his name to like, like Herlock Sholmes in all

later productions. But essentially Lupin the

first is a character, is an almost, you know,

he's a gentleman thief who's like almost better

than Sherlock Holmes, who always just... almost

gets away but doesn't necessarily succeed and

then this is his uh more fun grandson who's very

Batman -like and that's always been a thing in

the in the first episode of the first anime actually

uh When zetegata gets him handcuffed he he's

like pulling things out his pockets like and

it is like almost like Batman meets Hagrid or

he's like Oh, he's got a handful of buzzers over

here. And it's just like he's only got three

pockets How does he do in so much and then like

he's got like a removable foot that he pulls

the foot out He pulls the foot off of Lupin's

foot and his foot looks the same and then he's

holding a fake foot and he pours like 16 different

things out of the fake foot Like and it's just

there is a there's definitely a level of You

definitely have to suspend your disbelief on

some things when you're watching this because

I mean not that that's a bad thing necessarily

But like you're saying there is a crazy amount

of stuff going on that you're like, how could

this possibly be happening? But you just have

to be like, okay I'm just gonna go with this

because that was not a bill that was a fiat 500.

Thank you But it definitely could drive up a

cliff. When they get that flat tire, that innocuous

flat tire, and then they rock, paper, scissors

to see who's going to change the tire, as soon

as they pulled the spare tire out of it, I was

like, that's not true life, because I have a

Fiat. And so that was the first not -realism

moment that bothered me. But I mean, I know that

mine's a modern Fiat, and that's been a thing

that they've done recently, is not give spare

tires, which is still - Well, those guys can

also scale buildings in a fucking suit and tie.

and jump unbelievably high when need to. I think

it's a really cool mix of being so serious and,

you know, swearing and having intense ass car

chases and having the risk or, you know, the

feeling of dread because, you know, people might

die. They're going to fall in a trap door. I

mean, something's going to go awry because this

castle has grenade proof glass and like, you

know, palace guards you're like knuckle dragging

ninjas and stuff like stuff is gonna go nuts

but then it takes you out a minute to to make

you laugh and make you go that's that's not real

i'm still watching animation i think that was

a a really cool mix of the two well it does it

gives you a it gives you a bunch of different

genres kind of mixed in one i mean you From Lupin,

you almost get a little bit of like a Han Solo

or like an Indiana Jones type of feel from him,

but then like you're saying, like a little bit

of, I don't know, like a Sherlock Holmes or Robin

Hood type stuff. So I mean, you get all these

little cool bits of pieces of that. And then

like you're saying with the castle, it was almost

like something out of Kingsman or something like

that. And then you have like these cool car chases.

So you're right. You get a lot of fun aspects

of all that, but then you also do get the more

mature. Kind of aesthetic surrounding it. So

it It gives you something that it is unique I

mean, I don't know if you can necessarily say

that you've seen stuff with all of these elements

before As far as what I've seen I haven't seen

something combine all of this stuff in quite

the way that Castle Calliostro does I don't know

Dan. What do you think about that? The original

property is a little bit more, you know, I think

it's like a light hour where this is more like

PG -13 but there are some Moments were that like

humor wise where it does FEMA seem a little bit

kiddish not in a bad way But a little bit more

slapstick II but again dealing with more serious

topics and it is a mashup It's like it would

be hard for me to say what genre it would fit

in beyond that of animation I mean certainly

adventure, but within that there is some interesting

mystery and even looking at like a time period

It's hard to say like it could take place like

in the current time of like the 1970s or 60s

or even before that, they kind of keep it in.

They also add the, they also add the history

aspect of it with the kind of the angle of the

goat bills and what they're hiding and kind of

the progression of how all the different historical

events that that ties into. So it's. It adds

just a lot of different aspects to it. Yeah,

and I think I think too it's I never thought

I would see the animated film where our central

piece of it is counterfeit bills like that was

You know a huge element even gets into we talked

about a little bit of the political end and or

more of the cultural end when it came to like

the what basically was the UN and how they were

incapable of like really solving the issue because

of all the random regulations and whatnot of

what it would mean to go into this country and

how They were dragging their feet to really come

and save the day So you had of course Lupin doing

what he needs to do. But yeah, I did like that

and what What was interesting that kind of tied

it all together for me was the score that accompanied

it It's not like a score. I usually associate

with Miyazaki His score is a little bit more

sweeping Often there's more score. There wasn't

that much score here at all. I really like this

word more jazzy and Really think and added a

nice especially the opening sequence of like

wow, this is you know not type of music I think

of when I think of Miyazaki really liked it like

that element of it and how it really was incorporated

throughout the film. Yeah I think it did add

a little element to it especially like you said

with that opening sequence and kind of gives

you in the the right frame of mind and the right

kind of the right rhythm for what's going on

and it is like you guys said to the beginning

too it's a I can see what you guys are talking

about when you say it's something that you just

kind of jump in like the movie just starts and

you do have to catch up a little bit you know

but that's not necessarily a bad thing that's

not a mark against a movie I think that makes

it fun that adds to the the adventure as you're

trying to put it together while it's happening

and while it's unfolding so I can definitely

see that aspect through that and I think the

music adds to it because it's You know a little

bit more upbeat and quick tempo Throughout certain

parts and kind of adds to the element of you

know, this this thing's moving yeah, and even

going on the line of the How it incorporated

different things like even looking at some of

the characters that were in this like the like

the ninja butlers that were there like they're

almost like whore s characters like I didn't

I was expecting them to be almost like androids

or robots the way they would move and go throughout.

They seemed almost like of the undead in a way.

But I love their design. rather like a little

bit of an intimidating force, which you don't

necessarily see when you see a huge group of

characters that look exactly the same. But the

animation itself, I thought I was impressed with.

I know, Kevin, you are animation fan, but you

don't have that much experience or you haven't

really seen much anime. Knowing that this is

one of your first anime, what were your opinions

of the actual animation? Yeah, I mean my anime

as far as exposure is very limited. I mean, I

used to watch mysterious cities of gold and What

was it the super book in the flying house and

a couple other like early? stuff that was brought

over to the to us as far as anime goes and and

some other things probably along the way that

I didn't realize at the time were anime but The

animation in this really didn't bother me that

much except for Maybe two little outliers One

is just completely nitpicky. So I don't even

almost want to say that but They pay attention

to so much detail with a lot of it and It's weird

where they do and where they don't sometimes

because there's much cigarettes Smoking that's

going on throughout the film yet. There's never

smoke except for like one scene at the end So

it was always weird watching all these people

smoke and there was nothing there was no smoke

coming from anywhere They were vaping. That's

oh think that, you know, there's certainly this

isn't true for all of them, but I think there

were some of them where they were just having

a cigarette in their mouth that's unlit, like

when because there's that one point where going

on like, like digs through an ashtray pulls one

cigarette out, puts it in his mouth and does

not light it. It always has a cigarette in his

mouth. That's probably a good point. Be lit.

Yeah. But yeah, I don't think that's I think

you are right that in some of them they did just.

I mean that that's not necessarily that big deal.

It just struck me out a couple times because

then towards the end they do show One time where

it definitely is lit and there's a lot of smoke

coming from it but no my only problem with this

film is when it comes to animation and and I'm

hoping this isn't necessarily something that

I'm hoping I can steer myself away from focusing

on it too much because I think the biggest fault

for me when it comes to anime is the actual animation

on the characters' faces and the expressions

that they give and the eyes being either shut

or open at certain times. It always seems like

their eyes are closed like a super extended amount

of time where it's almost unnatural. And I'm

just not a big fan of the way they show the emotions

on the faces. But that doesn't necessarily make

me score the movie bad or good or anything. It's

just a little... Personal preference as far as

the aesthetic of the animation goes, but that's

literally the only thing outside of that I didn't

mind anything as far as the animation goes I

thought I thought like you said it From the time

that this is done. It seems like it's pretty

pretty impressive when you think about other

late 70s animation that's going on because like

Dan was mentioning with some of that other stuff

you do get a lot more choppiness especially in

a lot of the western animation that you might

have seen and as far as especially when we're

talking about like actual full length type of

productions not necessarily like the individual

cartoon here or there but when you're talking

about like an actual animated film I do think

that the animation of this is is pretty impressive.

for the time that it was done. So as far as it

being an anime, it didn't turn me off. I just

have a minor nitpick with the emotions on the

faces, which I think is going to be something

that continues. I would argue that it's going

to get way better, way quicker with Miyazaki,

personally. OK, sweet. I look forward to that,

because that's the only thing that bugs me. Maybe

it's probably because I was exposed to quite

a bit of Dragon Ball Z when I was in college

because I had some roommates that, one roommate

that was obsessed with it. that was something

that drove me crazy about that too was the emotions

on the faces and the eyes and the Weird exclamations

and just all that type of stuff is just like

I don't get it. But um Powering up it for like

five minutes So hopefully Miyazaki will break

me from that because I think as far as this film

goes the backgrounds and the backdrops and the

sceneries and the settings are pretty impressive

And man any thoughts on the animation? I thought

the animation was pretty smooth like you said

I was a little impressed when I found out how

old the movie was I was a little shocked because

I didn't I didn't get that feel like you said

and I think that it still held up pretty well

and I'm looking forward to moving throughout

his little collection of films here to see if

I can start to pick up on You know his brushstrokes

not not literally like like he didn't draw it

or anything like his direction because it's kind

of hard for me to differentiate one anime style

from the next because I haven't seen a ton. I

mean yeah like Sailor Moon I can get down on

that. I've seen Kiki's delivery service from

his works so I think that I can tell the difference

between those two so it'll be interesting to

see even like a progression to pick up all that

stuff would be cool. Matt, for Lupin features

and other TV shows, does this hold up compared

to that, or is this a best example of it, or

is it just kind of the norm when it comes to

Lupin animation? I think, I mean, the quality

is gonna consistently go up, and then when you

get to things like some of the more recent series,

like a woman called Fujiko Mine... where it's

like, it goes in the opposite direction, they

make it way more artsy and almost even harder

to watch than this. Like, it's not a huge cut

above animation -wise, even though it's a movie,

but it's not too far, like, yeah, it's probably,

it's a little bit better than the first series,

about on par with the second series, probably

on par with the third series, because that one

came out pretty quickly, but then not nearly

as good as the fourth series just because of

time. Makes sense. I had a question for you guys

because I think my biggest kind of sticking point

with this film, which is causing me to not score

it as high as maybe I would like to, is almost

entirely based on the pacing of the film. And

I was wondering what you guys thought of that.

Dan, specifically, there's, I mean, it gets to

a point where I thought the film was over and

I thought we were getting to the the climax.

Not that I was like, oh, I want this film to

be over. But it's like, oh, I just think naturally

we're about to be, you know, we're about to get

our conclusion point. And it didn't. And it wasn't

like it was just like one of those films where

you have like this this full five endings like.

It didn't go Lord of the Rings style where we

just had like one ending upon another ending

upon another ending upon another ending. It was

like you still have half the film to watch or

something like that. There was a good chunk of

film left after I thought that we were done.

And at points to me, it just seemed like the

pacing could have dealt with some, I don't know,

something to keep it from seeming as long as

it was. But maybe I'm alone in that. Yeah, I

didn't really have. Have the issues with the

pacing I thought it started off right out the

gate and you're right within that action sequence

and then you Slowly get introduced to this world.

I didn't have the Feeling it was coming to its

conclusion until till the very end I thought

okay trying to think of where that point was

for you and when that was happening I don't know

if that was the first escape from the castle

or what? Well, it's kind of like the progression

of basically like you're introduced to these

individuals and obviously you have the car chase

scene and they meet the girl and you know they're

tracking her down to this place and it seemed

like there was going to be a confrontation between

the Count and Lupin and I guess I was just expecting

that to be like the confrontation that was going

to be the climax of the film and obviously there's

a lot more to the story and a lot more to the

film and I don't know if it's I don't know what

my mind frame was but I guess I was just completely

not understanding time my my sense of time was

off at that point because I felt like I'd been

watching the film for you know at least an hour

hour and 20 minutes at that point and I clearly

hadn't been because we were only halfway through

the film so I don't know I was I guess my time

sense and my pacing sense was was thrown off

on this one mine too because I fell asleep in

the last like 20 minutes pretty sure I guess

what happened but my I didn't really have an

issue with the pacing because I was just unsure

where the story was going. Even the basic elements

of it, really, because I was like, what is Lupin's

even goal? And it's not in a bad way. I'm just

like, where are we going? Where is this headed?

I had some ideas. Of course, you have a princess,

so Ben locked away. That's going to get married

to some evil guy. So OK, I can put two and two

together. But some of the other elements of how

we got there, I wasn't really sure, or how the

other characters fit in. I was like, How's this

really going to play out? So I never really noticed

the pacing. I thought that was fine for me. I

don't know, Matt, if that was an issue for you

at all. If you felt that maybe it was a little

bit inconsistent and maybe when it came to how

it ended. Well, I will say it like I'm probably

somewhere between you two, you three, because

I thought that. Like so I mean I'm used to seeing

it in 23 minute bits and the opening sequence

I love so much because it was literally just

this is the last five minutes of any one episode

where it's like Haha, they're super successful.

They did it. Oh, no, they don't actually walk

away with anything like that That part was so

loop on the third that thing like that. You couldn't

get a better introduction to the characters and

how things go usually for them. But yeah, I mean,

it's essentially the length of four or five episodes

of the show. And so there were some points where

I was like, maybe this is a little bit too long.

And being Miyazaki's first movie, I mean, maybe

that's just a sign of him trying to lengthen

a thing that's not normally this long and not

being adept at it yet. Like, I do think it had

a few pacing issues. I don't think it ruins it

or anything. But I do think that it could have

been tightened. I don't want to say tightened

up because I feel like there isn't a whole lot

you can cut out. It wasn't like I'm watching

a scene going like, I don't need this scene.

But at the same time, I mean, it could have been

shorter. What about that scene in the aqueduct?

He's like swimming through. That reminded me

of the. seen from the latest Mission Impossible

movie when Tom Cruise is like swimming next to

that big turbine. I was like, I've seen this

before. I know exactly where this is going. I'm

curious, Amanda, because you said there was a

couple, when you had your little opening on this

film, you said that there was a couple issues

that you didn't think you were going to be able

to get past or a couple sticking points. I didn't

know if we've already touched on those or not.

We did, yeah. What were those issues or what

were those main sticking points for you? I think

trying to figure out where the fuck we were,

what kind of time period we were dealing with,

all the lecherous creepy shit that was happening,

and I couldn't really decide if I liked the moments

that... took you out of the seriousness like

driving up the side of the mountain and him you

know jumping or being able to pull out this grappling

hook from god knows where but hearing more about

who Lupin is as a character I think that that

kind of brings it home and ties it in and I'm

okay with it now but I think that I would have

liked a little bit more to to show me that Lupin

is established you know what I mean so it would

have brought it together while I was watching

the movie. Well, I mean, as much as you guys

are saying that it's something to look forward

to as far as, you know, not a whole bunch of

exposition early on in the films that maybe Miyazaki

does and that it's more like a, you know, catch

up as you go through and figure things out and

you don't necessarily need that set up. When

we're talking about this franchise, Matt, is

prior watching, do you feel like prior watching

of this franchise is somewhat of a prerequisite

for when you come into this film or at least

would enhance it a little bit? Yeah, I think

that the second bit hit it. I don't know that

it's necessary, especially with that opening

sequence, like giving you a good feel for the

characters, at least two of them. But I do think

the more you know about each of these characters,

the better you're gonna feel. Because like, Zenigata

is just like, no, I need to get back there. Like,

you might not get that that's... Like, he and

Lupin are two sides of the same coin, right?

One is a cop and one is a thief, but they're

both like... decent human beings when it comes

down to it, where it's like they're willing to

put aside their differences. And that was a huge

thing. Like they've only called the truth a couple

of times. And so when they do that, just to take

this one guy down, because he's just so much

more villainous than Lupin is, like that's a

big moment, at least it was for me, but that

I don't know if it comes across to someone who's

never seen a Lupin anything. I didn't really

get a big feel for their characters in the beginning.

I got like a, you know, a brief glimpse of their

camaraderie, but I didn't really know. who they

were as characters because the more we saw we

kept seeing all these Weird little traits of

Lupin thrown out there, but it was disjointed

for me. I'm like, okay Well, that doesn't make

any sense. Like why the fuck does he have this

stuff in his? You know his belt buckle and all

this other stuff like if they would have set

up like hey He's a very established thief and

he's got all these gadgets and this knowledge

and stuff. I'm like, okay cool Well, I'm spending

all this time trying to figure that out So I

was just confused by it at first since I was

in the moment of trying to put it together and

I think I would have definitely benefited from

having the knowledge of seeing more of Lupin.

to really understand like, okay, I can accept

this and just enjoy it. And Matt, I think what

you're saying, too, makes sense about their and

the crook, I guess, in this situation is I don't

think that as much as we can kind of feel like

you're saying like that they are somewhat very

similar characters just coming at it from two

different perspectives, I wouldn't have got the

fact that they haven't done this before. So I

think that's definitely something that you kind

of pinpointed on that would make more sense for

someone that has seen a lot of this and knows

that they don't do that very often. Yeah. Like

I said, it's upsetting that this has to be your

introduction to these characters and even this

director because it's not the best showing of

either of them. Even if it is a decent enough.

Well, I mean don't get me wrong. I do think Lupin

is a intriguing character I think there's a lot

of like like I said you see little elements of

all these different characters that I already

threw out there and I think that makes him intriguing

and the fact that he's a bad guy, but somewhat

grounded in and some type of moral code at least

in Miyazaki's version maybe not so much in monkey

punches version, but It is an intriguing character.

So I'm not necessarily writing the character

off just based on what we saw here. It was just

Playing catch -up was an understatement. Yeah,

yeah, definitely. It's like if you feel like

one in this way you are you're watching a sequel

to a movie that you've watched the original version

of sometimes but I never get to the point where

I think I was totally confused. Like I said,

it was more like when it came to the detailed

relationships because even when it came to the

one we're speaking of I did enjoy their moments

together, but I don't think maybe I was able

to feel the levity of that moment knowing the

history and what that actually meant for both

of those people so but anything else you guys

wanted to cover regarding this film i think we

hit everything on um on my my list like i said

the only thing i was really confused on was the

location of where all this was taking place it

took me a long time to figure that out especially

with the different flags like that one boat had

three different flags on it which confused me

even more because i was like oh there's a flag

that's going to tell me where we're at and then

i'm like well there's a second there's a third

flag i'm still lost so that was my only confusion

part outside of not having like you said like

matt was saying it's not a requirement i don't

think for you to watch the other stuff but i

do feel like it would have enhanced certain things

so that was my only thought was that man i think

i would have enjoyed this to a different level

if I knew the background of these relationships.

I mean, I can pick up on how they're interacting

in this film and that's not a problem, but I

think it would have been enhanced even a little

bit more. But Amanda, did you have anything that

we didn't get to on your notes? No, I think we

hit everything. Alrighty, so it is the moment

of truth then. Any final thoughts and what grade

or what score would you give Castle or Kelly

Ostrow? I'll go first. And man. My final thoughts

are is I was not turned off as much by the style

as maybe I thought I might have been and I've

been soured on some recent anime stuff that I

have watched like when Marnie was there which

was not. good in my opinion. So I was glad that

it didn't turn me off. I'm not opposed to continuing

through this spotlight. So we are starting on

a positive note. I just wanted to like this movie

even more because I've heard all of the acclaim

that has come through here. I've seen the quotes

and the reviews and the stuff, even critiques

from Steven Spielberg saying that that car chase

scene is one of the best car chase scenes ever

filmed and the influence it has had on lot of

different things not just in the animation world

but in live -action stuff etc so I wanted to

be like completely wowed by this I mean it has

like a I don't know like a 90 % on Rotten Tomatoes

from both critics and from audiences and I wanted

to feel like I was that much you know on board

with all that and I don't feel like I got quite

there based on this it was a little bit middle

of the road for me so if I'm gonna score this

out of 10 I'm probably gonna sit right at the

five range. I wanna be a little bit higher, but

I just can't quite convince myself to go too

much higher than five out of 10. Amanda? I wanted

to give it a five, but because you're giving

it a five, now I don't wanna give it a five.

I think I'm gonna give it a solid 4 .5, just

slightly below you. I can't get on board with

a full five. I had a lot of fun with it, but

I wanna leave some room. to like things more,

and I did get enjoyment out of it. I felt a little

sense of dragging just for me. I don't know if

I wasn't able to get into it as much, but I was

pleased, I would say. I didn't hate it. We didn't

hate it. Matt, what about you? It almost pains

me to not give a nine or above to something that's

Lupin. It's my favorite anime franchise by a

lot. I've got two in the mail right now that

came out yesterday. I love the thing, but it's

not the strongest showing of Lupin. It's not

the strongest showing of Miyazaki. at least to

me it's at least a seven I might even say eight

but I'll just go with seven since everyone's

trending downward I guess well I was actually

myself thinking around seven as well so I felt

like I did end up really enjoying my time with

these characters like I said I enjoyed the story

even if it wasn't all that thematically rich

I love the score I thought the animation itself

deserves at least a six so because of that yeah

I had some issues with it maybe I Would better

appreciate a lot of this with further background

knowledge But considering that I didn't have

that and enjoyed it as much as I did I think

it's it was rather successful on that end. So

For me, I would go seven as well. So I just can't

get fully behind something. That's just Got a

drug hose and it's okay to I mean, how old is

she in the first place? I don't really know.

I don't think she's that at all. There's some

it's creepy It's a villain that does it right?

Yeah, but that takes it there. Like, you can

be a bad guy, but you just took it there, dude.

Like, no. Not a fan of the lecherousness. No,

dude. I look like a 12 -year -old. So when super

old guys hit on me, I feel extra creeped out,

because I'm like, look, dude, I get carted when

I breathe on alcohol. So what does that say about

you? So yeah, I just can't get fully behind some

creepy stuff like this. Man, I have the same

trouble, geez. One old guy said on me, just,

I don't know what to do. Dave, you better stop

wearing them tube tops and a little Gucci shorts.

Makes me feel good, though. It's freedom. Like

Honey Boo Boo's mom. She shouldn't be wearing

those either. We're going down a bad path. Yeah,

do not expect Honey Boo Boo to come up on a Miyazaki

episode. That's what I'm here for. Breaking barriers,

breaking barriers. Anyways, that'll... bring

us to the end of this week's episode, but we'd

like to hear from you, what you think of this

film, if you've seen it. Are you looking forward

to further films in this retrospective? Will

there be movies that get a higher score? Maybe

we should do a combined score and see which one

ends up reaching the highest level by the end.

We'll see, but before we go, there's a lot of

ways to get in contact with us. You can email

us at feedback .gcathread .com. The show is on

Twitter, at Cinemagiquecast. You guys are also

on Twitter. What are your Twitter names? Mine

is at Optimus Solo. I'm Hard Candy Nanny, eyes

no eyes. And I'm at Fridley Set. And I am at

Boogie Revolt. And I've done the quick math already

where I had a combined rating of 6 on this one.

I don't want to impress anybody, but 2 5s and

2 7s basically. A little under 6 since you gave

it a 4 and a half. Oh, so you went average. I'm

like, do you not know how math works if you combine

numbers? My bad. Like, that's not how it works.

So that will bring us to the end of this week's

episode. We'll be back next week as we preview

the films of May. It should be fun because there's

a lot of big movies coming out. I believe there's

some Civil War historical films coming out regarding

the North and the South. I don't know. Here are

things. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you

next time.