317 – Children's Television Programming Then & Now!

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Unleash the geek in you. This is a crossover

between Geekcast Radio and Studio 2009 here on

the Geekcast Radio Network. I am TFG1 Mike. Studio

2009 has not had an episode in a couple of months.

Geekcast Radio, we are continuing on down our

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2009, we cover anything and everything in the

audio visual medium. If you can hear it, if you

can watch it, if you can read it, if you can

whatever it, it'll be covered on this podcast.

Joining me is long time and I've only actually

spent five and a half hours with her podcasting

since 2017. We've only done two episodes together.

Back when I had remote control, we did a take

five on This Is Us, which I think after season

two I stopped watching that show. Same, same.

It's not that it got bad. I just, I was in an

emotional place and that show is, it's a lot.

That show is emotionally draining is what that

show is. Yeah, and then we came back and somehow

we talked for like I said So the the this is

a show was probably an hour and 15 minutes The

next show she was on was episode 40 of remote

control where we talked about the broadcast Television

networks and we talked for like four and a half

hours. I don't know how that happened, but it

is Mrs. Jennifer Kaufman. Hello. How are you?

Hello, I'm I'm doing good since we last podcast

it together. I've created two humans. Yeah, two

little humans and I think that sort of leads

into why I'm here is because I've suddenly been,

you know, mostly against my will, thrust into

the world of current children's television because

little humans like to watch TV just as much as

big humans and lots of people are making stuff

just for them that I have a lot of opinions on.

this originally started out as I believe it was

one of your Facebook posts and I Don't know what

I remember you usually when I see a Facebook

post and I'll be like, oh Hmm interesting and

usually part of my comment will be Oh this this

and this about whatever the post is and I'll

say hey if you want to do a podcast about it

Let me know and I think that's what that's why

we're here is because of whichever Paw Patrol

Enraging post that you were making and there

probably have been several I have probably posted

several lengthy Facebook rants about my dislike

of Paw Patrol Yeah, so that makes sense So for

me I had never watched the series. I do not have

children Sadly, my wife passed away two years

ago this November And I've never had the interest

in having my own little humans because of my

cerebral palsy disability. The last thing I want

is to, you know, bring somebody into this world

that has more problems than I had 40 years ago

because of how today's society is and whatever

else. I grew up obviously I was a kid at one

point or another obviously I watched children's

television programming when I was younger and

that's kind of where this is going to end up

close to the end of the podcast but Jen wanted

to talk about Paw Patrol and I watched a couple

of clips and episodes and First of all, I can't

believe that show has 231 episodes and multiple

movies. Yep My brain just like Fried egg, this

is your brain. This is your brain on Yeah, well,

you know the thing is before I even watched it

I had this conception of it that it was the kind

of show I didn't want my kid to watch I had lofty

notions man. I I was gonna just Let my kid only

watch classic Sesame Street. There's a couple

of Collections you can buy on iTunes and they

have you know, lots of YouTube clips and you

know sort of pirated YouTube episodes and That

was how I started. It was like classic Sesame

Street kind of expanded to allow some Modern

Thomas the Train, which is not too bad and I

saw Paw Patrol as like this threshold that once

I crossed it there was no turning back and You

know, my son saw the picture on Netflix and my

husband was like, oh, what's the big deal? Let

him watch Paw Patrol. And I was like, this will

be the end. This will be the end of everything.

And I was right because it sort of, as soon as

he started watching Paw Patrol, it took him down

this path of like all of these very similar modern

shows that I just think are really stupid and

are doing a disservice to children. And you know,

like when you say I can't believe the show has

230 episodes I can believe it because honestly

it's like a show designed to attract children

but not in the same way that you know, let's

say Sesame Street was which was Sesame Street

was developed by and I guess we can probably

agree that Sesame Street is like the pinnacle

of children's television It was developed by

educators and comedy writers together, along

with all of these other groups, psychologists,

like they brought together this crazy team, back

when people cared about public television, to

create this show. And of course, they wanted

to have tricks and tips to attract children because

you got to get the kids to watch. But the underlying

goal was always like, how can we teach kids,

how can we close this learning gap, particularly

between Their main interest was between was for

underprivileged children in urban neighborhoods

They really wanted to get those people up to

speed when they started, you know kindergarten

grade school that type of thing so It was how

they could best get the information that children

needed and entertain them at the same time I

think they did a fantastic job, but you know

Paw Patrol is kind of like the inverse of that,

where it's like, how can we make this crack for

children? And there's not really any thought

to if it's good for children. But really, like

a but what children love puppies, right? Like,

that's the thing. Children love dogs. And then

you're making dogs rescue people. And to me,

it's like this simplest concept that I can understand

100 % why every kid wants to watch a bunch of

cute dogs. rescue people. And it sells a ton

of toys, it lends itself perfectly to marketing.

So it's really it's the perfect concept kind

of baked into it. I don't know if you want to

hear I mean, you watch some of it. Do you want

like a brief overview? Do you want it or are

we willing to take it I guess is the point? That's

what she said. So Paw Patrol is actually Canadian

where I'm from. And we apologize because normally

Canada doesn't Normally Canada is not the source

of the worst things to happen on television But

I don't know you might want to talk to all those

Nickelback haters. I said on television man.

I said on television We do take responsible responsibility

for Nickelback. Yeah, but you know, we're kind

of Usually below the radar. We don't usually

cause that much trouble. But yeah, we did this

we did Paw Patrol And like I said that the concept

is really simple. It was a bunch of dogs five

dogs It is four male dogs in one female dog because

that is also how the world works. You just got

to throw in that one female So you're not sexist

even though the world is 50 -50. It's it's you

know, one out of five in in dog world And they

live in this place called Adventure Bay and they

have this teenage boss who sends them on missions

to rescue people. And that in itself is not the

end of the world, right? But what I find really

weird about this show and very silly, and you

may have noticed this as you sort of looked into

it, is that it progressed into insanity very

quickly. Like, again, these were dogs. Dogs rescuing

people, you create a show, you set up a world

and you obviously you're supposed to suspend

your disbelief. Hey, dogs can talk and they're

rescuing people. Not that over the top, right?

That's just that's the that's the basis of the

world and we all buy into that. So they did things

in the first season like fix the lighthouse,

rescued kittens, you know, rescue the mayor's

pet chicken. Why the mayor has a pet chicken?

That's a whole other podcast. I don't know. His

name is her name. I'm sorry. I don't want to

misgender the chicken. Her name is Chickaletta.

So that's yeah. You know, they did these are

nearly by a dinosaur by a giant purple metal

dinosaur. Right. That's not Canada's shoving

something up another dinosaur's butt. I don't

know what is And that, and you have summed that

up because if you're listening, you're like,

wait, why are there dinosaurs? And that is the

problem, man. Because again, at first they're

doing these little things around town that you

would imagine would be in a world where you're,

you know, rescuing people in a small town, you'd

be doing these things. And then it gets to season

two and they start to like expand this world

where you have not, this has not been the premise.

You know, where suddenly there are space aliens

and merpups and then there are dinosaurs and

then there are meteor crashes and all the dogs

get superpowers. And it's like this progression

of like there are no rules in this world. Like,

you know what I mean? Like you you buy into an

idea and then they could just throw whatever

they wanted. Well, now there's dogs that are

half mermaids. So that's a thing. You're like,

what? What why? And obviously the answer is to

sell more toys, but I think the problem is you

need to set up. You should set up a world and

build it properly so that everything that happens

within that world feels plausible to the world.

I'm not saying you can't have mermaid dogs. That's

fine. You can have a whole show about mermaid

dogs, but they shouldn't come out of nowhere.

We should go into it knowing this is a world

in which mermaid dogs exist, or at least magic.

You know? Yeah. So that's the part. The only

thing I can think in my head is they just want

to be a part of our world. So that's the first

issue that I have with shows like this is that

they don't, there's no narrative consistency.

There's no proper world building. It's just like,

oh, well, we can just do whatever and constantly

create new things that don't make any sense or

have never been established. Which Paw Patrol

is the king of right? They just keep creating

these offshoots the mighty pups or the superpower

when they get superpowers like I think you may

have watched a Dino rescue episode. It sounds

like yeah Backpacks or whatever the jet packs

and all that and I'm looking so on Wikipedia

which we all know folks Wikipedia is the end

all be all not really but I'm looking at all

of the characters and yes you are correct the

main dog pack there really is only one female

member but there are other female characters

in this series as it goes along. Well there are

there are two honorary as far as I know look

don't quote me on this but there are there may

be more than two but there is at least two honorary

members of the of the Paw Patrol who show up

not all the time, but in a lot of episodes. One

is a girl dog named Everest. And if I had to

pick, she would be my favorite. I mean, it's

a low bar, but she's a snow dog. And then there

is a dog tracker, I believe his name is. I think

it's something to do with the woods and maybe

the outback, which again, doesn't make any sense.

Why are they in the outback? So they have these

other dogs that come in and out. There's actually

now a Cat pack that they work with. Yes Well,

there's there's two cat packs. There's an evil

cat pack called the kitty catastrophe crew As

I'm looking through these characters talking

about tracker really quick and you said you don't

know why Australian it says that he is a He serves

as a jungle rescue pup. So I guess if the Paw

Patrol is like worldwide The Australian jungle

I guess maybe knows Sure, but it's like we have

no idea where adventure Bay is it kind of seems

like some like New England town, right? There's

like a captain of a boat and all this stuff and

then they suddenly are just like in the jungle

and they don't like fly there they just they

just walk next door in the jungle and It's kind

of like if you were watched lost But it's like

how in the beginning they were very careful about

how long it took to get everywhere on the island

and by the final season They're like we're just

gonna walk next door to this thing that took

us like eight hours to get to That's what this

is like. It's like there's no sense of like where

this is. And, you know, why are they next door

to a jungle? Like that's, you know. So, yeah,

the nonsensicalness of it is something that really

bugs me. And the other thing is that it's really

representative of of shows now that are aimed.

I mean, these shows, Paw Patrol, for sure. And

some of these other shows that are similar to

Paw Patrol shows like PJ Masks, Action Pack.

These are also kind of like rescue shows. I think

Disney Plus has Spidey and friends, which is

obviously based on Spider -Man all of these shows

are sort of aimed at like a younger a preschool

to kindergarten audience Yeah, but they all they

feature rescues and they feature light lessons

like be nice to people and all this kind of thing

but they also feature these like really dumb

villains and every episode these packs of rescue

people, whether it's dogs or spidey friends,

they have to stop these villains with these really

simple nefarious plans from causing chaos. Um,

and I just think that villains don't really play,

shouldn't play a role in children's television.

I think it's, I think it's kind of damaging.

Like I noticed when my kids watch shows with

villains, um, well, I should say my My kid, I

have a toddler and he doesn't know what's happening.

But my preschooler, who's four now, he kind of

turns into a jerk, right? Like everything's about

defeating people and like, you won't get away

with this, you know? Like these, it's kind of

a bad energy to have in children's television.

It is, but I will ask you this question. Okay.

What is an easier way to teach a child of preschool

age the difference between good and bad or good

and evil or good like being able to teach them

how to do good versus this is what you're not

supposed to do kind of thing isn't isn't uh having

a hero and a villain or a good guy and a bad

guy the easiest way to teach them that i get

i don't know i'm not i'm not a parent so i am

so glad you asked that that is such a good question

first of all i don't think we do teach children

the simplicity of a world that's good or bad

I think that is a mistake in and of itself and

that's part of the reason is like you know my

son will refer to kids in his class he's like

oh he hits he's the bad guy and I'm like honey

that kid is not a bad person that kid maybe has

a problem hitting and maybe we need to figure

out why he's hitting or work with him or whatever

but you know there is no good and bad in our

world I mean look I'm sure there are people that

we all feel like our cartoonish villains in the

real world but for the most part you live in

a world of grays and people contain multitudes

and so what you really want to teach kids is

how to be a good person and how to interact with

difficult personalities how to um how to say

no to things that they maybe shouldn't be doing,

but you don't need villains to do that, especially

really one note cartoonish style villains. And

the main antagonist in Paw Patrol is Mayor Humdinger.

He's literally a mustache thriller. He has a

top hat, he's got one of those like tie you to

the railroad tracks in the 1930s mustaches. And

he's just constantly causing ridiculous trouble

for like no good reason. I don't even know what

his goal is. Like what is his goal? To be a powerful

mayor? I don't know. It's weird. And I think

that when you simplify that for kids, that it

creates this energy where, yeah, good guys versus

bad guys that I don't think is really useful

for children. And I think there are so many other

ways to do it. Fine, then I'll just have to call

the Paw Patrol! It's working! Follow the honey,

little bear! That worked out great, Rocky! Mayor

Humdinger? We were just on our way to see you.

Then hurry! My lair is full of bees! Let's buzz

on over, pups. There are so many fantastic shows

that teach kids lessons in a different way, which

I don't know if we want to get into that now

or later, but there are certainly tons of these.

And they're still high octane. They're still

adventure. They're still often rescue series

because I think kids these days are, it's harder

for them to watch the slower stuff that we watched

as a kid. I mean, try to sit a kid in front of

Mr. Rogers, and I'm not saying it's a good thing

that they can't sit through it, but our world

moves at a slightly different pace, and it is

a lot harder for my kids to sit through Mr. Rogers

than it would be for you or I, right? Yeah, because

again, we grew up in a generation without the

internet, without all this instantaneous, like

you can, legally or illegally, you can have most

content just by clicking a few buttons on your

mouse or a few links on your your computer or

touching a few buttons on whichever iDevice or

whatever you want to use for technology whereas

40 years ago we didn't have any of that we had

three channels and a knob with some metal and

try to teach a kid today what how to use a television

antenna i dare you like seriously i don't want

to do it Honestly, I didn't even know how to

use my television that was that that that was

slightly before like we didn't we had a TV with

antennas Maybe for a little bit and I didn't

interact with it. So that's not that's not part

of my world either Right, okay. I understand.

It's not part of your world, but Point is the

generation that we grew up in with yes, we had

computers at school and stuff and Some of us

may have been lucky to have home computers, but

that was like a new thing back then whereas nowadays

in 2023 computers and tablets and phones and

this and that and everything is a screen kind

of thing like the learning the way we learned

40 years ago was very different than the way

that The learning is going on now. It's true.

It's true and and you know how much of it though.

I wonder starts at an early age and is because

they're exposed to things that are different

like, you know, I truly believe that my son was

happy watching classic episodes of Sesame Street,

which By the way, at the time was considered

very fast paced. In fact, Mr. Rogers initially

had an issue with Sesame Street because he didn't

like how it was like all these quick cuts to

these different segments. Right. Like he wanted

to Mr. Rogers really wanted kids to feel the

real movement of time, which I mean, when you

watch it, it's like if he's cutting a piece of

paper, he just cuts the paper and you just watch

the amount of time it takes him to cut that paper.

That's it. But my son, I believe, was really

happy watching that. But as soon as he started

to get a taste of some of these other shows,

going back to watch that, it's like his brain

had been rewired to be like, this is too slow.

You know, this has too much talking. This doesn't

have enough action. And suddenly, you know, we're

he's in a different space. So part of me wonders,

you know, how much look you can't control. the

world you can't change the world so obviously

eventually everybody is going to be in a space

where they see and interact with everything around

them which for the most part is very fast -paced

but you know when we're making these shows for

kids how much control could how much influence

could we have i should say if we made these shows

to help them adjust to the world and learn things

in maybe a different way before before we kind

of throw them into the MTV -ness of it all. You

know what I mean? This fast -paced, high -octane

world. I don't know. It's just a thought, because

I really do see the difference. Once they see

what's out there, it's suddenly like, oh, okay,

well, if there are no lasers, you know, I'm not

into this, you know? Yeah, and it's just such

an interesting evolution. of children's television

programming between, as I've mentioned, 40 years

ago to today, because without looking it back

up, I think Sesame Street was 30 minutes, Mr.

Rogers was 30 minutes, maybe they used to have

hour. Sesame Street was an hour. Okay. Yeah,

yeah. So an hour in 1986, when I was six years

old, watching Sesame Street, felt... even with

the jump cuts and the quick cuts as, you know,

whatever, it still felt like I was learning for

a full hour or longer because of how, not necessarily

they drew the lesson out, but how the show was

paced at the time of being this thing of, we

want your child to sit here for an hour in the

morning every day. at whatever, before school

obviously kind of thing. And I think the only

time as a kid in the 80s, the only time I felt

Sesame Street was super slow, and I don't even

know if I can find this on YouTube, there was

a segment that they did where they were trying

to teach us or show us the ways many different

people slept. It was a sleeping segment and it

was showing people like tossing and turning in

beds Sleeping out, you know like camping out

in the middle of nowhere with tents It was all

this stuff about sleeping and this segment was

so Slow and as a six -year -old who was running

around like, you know by that point I was all

in Transformers and he man and Viltron like Sesame

Street. Come on. Just show me Bert and Ernie

and get it over with already Well, yeah, you

know, and over the years, like Sesame Street

was originally more about the adults on the street

than it was about the Muppets. The Muppets were,

well, the Muppets were a huge part of it. They

were, yeah. But it was you were, they wanted

you to be with the people in your neighborhood.

You know, who are the people in your neighborhood?

That kind of thing. And so if you watch some

of those really early episodes, you know, like

Gordon, Susan, Bob, You would kind of they would

be your anchors and then you would have they

would interact with the Muppets as as if they

were children they would interact with the some

of the children who were on the show and There

would be these stories that were just about the

adults getting like locked out of their building

when they were trying. There was a whole episode

where they went up on the roof to do some yoga

running or something. I can't remember. And Big

Bird locked the door and it started to rain and

they were stuck up there. And of course you have

that was the ongoing story throughout the episode

as they cut to all the Muppet segments and those

little animated interstitials and all of that

stuff that Sesame Street is known for. And at

Sesame Street, progressed it became less anchored

in the adults and more anchored in the Muppets

and really that's not necessarily a bad thing

except for that if you if you watch the history

it often hinges around the elmification of Sesame

Street it's whether or not you think Elmo is

the evil turning point which I kind of do because

you know he was sort of the point of view of

a toddler and he kind of took Sesame Street a

little bit Younger even than it was and he became

like the eyes that you would see it through Instead

of kind of like a more mature or more of like

these friendly adults who were leading you through

life So even Sesame Street itself has changed

so much, you know That's what I liked about it.

Yeah that you had like even back then as a kid

you had Kid characters you had adult like look

Big Bird may be the tallest Sesame Street character,

but there were times where Big Bird was very

much, you know, you always talk about the kid

inside of us kind of thing. He was very much

an eight -year -old at certain points in time.

But with Elmo specifically, I think because Elmo

was a shorter muppet, he was very childlike looking.

As far as his design and the way he acted and

that's perfectly fine You need the whole point

of the show is to teach people teach kids how

to learn lessons and you need to Again, we always

talk about in in geek culture now how like we

relate to certain characters of whatever insert

whatever show you want to I don't Whatever, you

know what I mean? But like yeah, it was always

that that's what is interesting about classic

Sesame Street Like I said, I know practically

nothing. I already mentioned the one thing I

know about Sesame Street, which was the most

recent Marques Brownlee clip. The only other

thing I know is Sesame Street. It's a game of

chairs. And they go through and they do a Game

of Thrones parody with musical chairs. It's amazing

if you haven't seen it. No, I haven't seen that

now. I really haven't seen a ton of modern. modern

Sesame Street, but I Yeah, you know actually

Big Bird was supposed to be kind of Big Bird

was initially sort of the age of what the viewers

were supposed to be so he was supposed to become

like a five six year old kid really in the way

he interacted and you see that in I mean there's

that famous episode of Sesame Street that I'm

sure you've heard of which I didn't watch at

the time because it was before my time, but I've

watched it since where mr. Hooper dies because

the actor who played mr. Hooper had died and

The way that they addressed it was he simply

wasn't there, and Big Bird drew him a picture,

and he said, I want to give this to Mr. Hooper.

I got to go see him. And they said, Big Bird,

don't you remember? We told you that Mr. Hooper

died. And he didn't understand what that was

still, and they had to kind of explain to him,

well, he's not coming back. That's sad, and you

have your memories of him, but you're not going

to see him again. And it was so straightforward,

but empathetic and kind and the absolute pinnacle

of how you would want to talk to children and

interact with them. And that was just, you know,

one of the things that they did. And yeah, so

I mean, it's just changed a lot over the years.

And now it's it's only like a half hour thing

that they show once a week or so. And it's basically

all Muppets. There's no humans. And it's really

like elmo and that weird fairy that they invented

abby cadabby or whatever um and there are still

like i said Trust me, Marques Brownlee is not

not a human. He is a human. But I mean, there

are still humans. But you're right. Most of it

is the the child Muppet characters interacting

with each other with guest stars. Right. They

do the guest stars, but they don't have like

those anchoring characters on the street. You

know, also Sesame Street was originally a dirty

not dirty. It was intended to look like an inner

city neighborhood. It had. A regular look it

had you know, slightly grungy feel slightly like

there were obviously there were trash cans you

had a grouch in a trash can I'm pretty sure it

was supposed to be like a I don't want to say

a street in Brooklyn or the Bronx But it was

supposed to be a street in New York somewhere

Yeah, it was supposed to look like that kind

of environment and it did and if you watch it

over the years Sort of around like the early

90s and then continuing it was completely like

Beautified like all of a sudden. It didn't look

like that Street anymore and there was actually

a A warning on the deep original the first season

DVD of Sesame Street when it came out When DVDs

were still a thing There was a warning that said

it's not appropriate for children Yeah, I think

I'm getting that right I would have to look at

that but I remember reading at the time and it

had to do with parents television council I believe

complaining that Um, it was gritty. It was too

gritty for children that it wasn't appropriate.

Um, which is exactly, you know, what's wrong

with the world. Um, because it was designed for

children. It was, it spoke to real children,

but we're at a place now where anything negative,

anything that I don't even want to say negative,

anything that was too realistic to, you know,

like they were like, there was graffiti everywhere.

Yeah. I mean, that's the world, man. Right. Um,

yeah. So, yeah. Absolutely. All right. Where

else do we want to go with children's programming?

Well, I think we were talking about it earlier,

but it's interesting to think about whether or

not when we're comparing stuff like Paw Patrol

and Action Pact, which is kind of the same thing,

but like humans who rescue people in weird ways

and have powers, PJ Masks, all that stuff. If

we're comparing those shows to Sesame Street,

they're obviously They don't stand up. I was

talking to people about the fact that I was doing

this podcast and a lot of them were like, yeah,

but when I was that age, I watched Care Bears

or I watched Transformers or She -Ra or any of

these shows. It's interesting because I know

there definitely were kids shows in the sense

that they were not for parents. don't think they

were aimed at five -year -olds. And, you know,

some five -year -olds were probably watching

them. But I think the difference to me is that

these shows, like Paw Patrol, are designed and

aimed at five -year -olds versus... Yeah. Now,

what would your thoughts on that be? I mean,

if it's... If it's designed and aimed at kids

to be able to teach them something, like if they're

using it as a learning tool, fine. Okay, if they're

using it for anything else, well, then there

must be something wrong. Yeah, I think it's hard

because Care Bears is the closest thing I can

think of and I don't have very strong memories

of Care Bears. But you know, my friend was saying,

well, they always had these lessons and they

would say, you know, you have to care about this

and, you know, be kind to others and that so

that may have been something that was intended

for a younger audience, maybe as young as five.

But of course, Care Bears did also have that

same villain kind of, that villain, I think his

name was No Heart and he had this beastly kind

of assistant kind of got very thin memories of

this. But honestly, even that seems a little

more intelligent because it's also a metaphor,

right? The Care Bears are these bears who have

all of these feelings and who care about people

in the world. And then you've got this villain

who is the It was anti emotion anti caring right

that actually despite the fact that we're talking

about a really simple good versus evil dichotomy

It's a little bit of a clever metaphor in a way

Whereas with something like Paw Patrol, I mean,

what are you really teaching people? That it's

good to rescue people. I mean sure but you know,

like the villains don't have anything Interesting

about them. They don't have something metaphorical,

right? I mean, the only thing about Mayor Humdinger

that I can see that makes him an evil villain

is that he has the name Humdinger, because that's

just an evil word. And it's not, but it just

Mr. Hum, Mr. Mayor Humdinger is going to get

you. Whatever. Well, that's it. He just, for

no reason, he just wants to cause trouble. Yeah.

Think it's because so remind me because I've

only seen like a handful of these clips in the

last eight hours of my life So there's a mayor

of one town and then there's the mayor humdinger

who's the mayor of an opposing town, correct?

I think so, but to be honest, it's not always

super to me Because what is he always doing in

their town? Like I am a little bit confused and

Yeah I don't really know. I don't know what his

goal is. I don't really know what he's up to.

You know, I mean, yeah, and I will admit that,

like, you know, I am. I'm watching this from

the perspective of a parent where, you know,

I have sat through many episodes unwillingly,

but I've also the more common scenario is that

I'm in the middle of doing something and I stop

and I'm like, what in the. World is happening

right now and then I go back to folding the laundry

and so Some of it, you know I I did my own research

for this because I was like look I have to understand

how this ended up the way that it ended up So

I kind of looked up season by season again Wikipedia.

Let's assume they know what they're doing and

So, you know, when did it start to digress into

this weird superpower thing and it kind of happened

really quickly when how did it get like what

is the Trajectory of all this and it still doesn't

make sense, but I have a better understanding

now of when You know things happen plot wise

if you want to call it that then I did as Someone

who just sort of popped in and out a lot and

was like, okay, so now They can fly. I don't

why You know, I'm going through the characters

again the character list on Wikipedia And I know

folks do not read off a Wikipedia during a podcast.

It is what it is deal with it Mayor Goodway Is

the mayor of Adventure Bay who lives in the City

Hall and is one of the Paw Patrol's frequent

callers. She can be very panicky at times and

also works to outsmart Mayor Humdinger. That

she is listed in Wikipedia under as a supporting

character. Yeah. The lead villain, Mayor Humdinger.

Voiced by Ron Pardo. Mayor Humdinger is the mayor

of a neighboring town called Foggy Bottom. Okay,

who is the main antagonist of the series? He

is the Paw Patrol and Mayor Goodway's biggest

rival where he is always coming up with new plans

to upstage Adventure Bay and make foggy bottom

better Which always get thwarted by the Paw Patrol

for some light plot. Yeah Yeah, there's a light

plot light plot And this to me the reason why

I asked if about the two mayors and the two towns

I'm like Are they trying to teach kids politics?

Seriously, I'm only asking the question because

again, as I said earlier, I want my entertainment

to entertain me. Yes, there needs to be things

that do teach lessons and do whatever, but if

you're throwing in mayor this from this town

and mayor that from that town, I'm just waiting

for the next election. Now that I'm trying to

think, I don't think I've ever seen either of

those mayors mayoring anything. Like I feel like

I've never seen them running or doing their job.

Usually they're like competing against each other

in some kind of basketball tournament or foot

race and Mayor Humdinger is cheating. And it

seems that their whole job is to like, well,

Mayor Goodway's whole job is to panic and worry

about her pet chicken and then participate in

these like ribbon cutting things that don't have

any use. Mayor Humdinger's job seems to be, yes,

to try to destroy Adventure Bay and upstage Mayor

Goodway, but I don't think I've ever seen any

of them being like, hey, the traffic's really

bad in town. How do we fix this, guys? No, they're

not doing their jobs, at least not on camera.

I don't think it's to teach kids about politics,

but I will say that there has been a very good,

I have one excellent use for Mayor Humdinger

in that he is so classic as a simple villain

that I have used him to explain to my son who

what a bad guy is like so I guess in a way like

you talked about the good versus evil you know

I um in Canada our we have a different political

system you guys have democrats versus republicans

we have liberals versus conservatives and then

we also have a couple other parties as well um

the conservatives would be the republicans and

I am absolutely not a conservative and They have

blue signs here, that's their thing. They have

blue signs, the conservatives are the blue guys.

And my son will be like, what's happening? Who

are we voting for? I'll be like, not the blue

sign people. And he's like, what are the blue

sign people? Why are they bad? And they're just

a bunch of Mayor Humdingers, honey. And then

he immediately gets it. He's like, oh, they're

Mayor Humdingers. We don't want to vote for them.

And I'm like, yeah. So I use it to teach my son

about politics. There you go. And I'm not trying

to bring. The the whole politic I don't like

talking I don't I'd rather talk about fake robots

on a fake planet in the middle of nowhere that

ends up blowing up and they have to come to earth

and live amongst humans then talk about politics

ah Transformers you gotta love it But but yeah,

no like as I was reading the two things between

like wait a minute They're mayors of two opposing

towns. Oh Boy somebody go get the pulpit already.

I Will recommend an SNL sketch if you can find

it about Paw Patrol because that's how ubiquitous

it is that there is a an SNL sketch about it

And it's basically about how this mayor Goodway

gets elected and like fires the entire police

force and hires these dogs to like solve crime

instead and all the citizens are complaining

they're like I you know my someone was drowning

and they sent me a dog with a water boat like

I don't you know like this all of this kind of

crazy stuff about like Our town is now being

policed by these dogs. It's horrible They don't

know what they're doing and like who is this

ten -year -old boss they have like where are

his parents? He shouldn't he be in school? That's

a crazy thing out of all the clips I watched

today I Other than the two mayors I saw no adults

with these children and these dogs. These children

are running this Paw Patrol thing, really? There

are some adults. There's a captain. Captain Turbot

is like a sea captain. Right. I know there are

adults. I'm just saying in the few maybe seven

or eight clips and portions of episodes that

I watched today, every time the Paw Patrol goes

out, it's the lead child character and the lead

dog character. Like leading the way for when

the Paw Patrol go to respond to something. Look,

I'm per the whole aspect of this show that I'm

perfectly fine with is teaching kids about first

responders and how important those people are

in our lives. As far as like the police, the

fire, the EMS and the ambulance and all like

that's great. But man, where are some of the

adults when these kids at like, I'm sorry, some

of these kids in this show. Don't look like they're

old enough to drive and that's why you get the

animals to drive because at least the animals

are 99 years old And you know I actually never

that actually is interesting as I never thought

about that that maybe they're trying to teach

people about first responders and that's that

would be smart and I think maybe that's how it

started because again the things that they were

doing were things that you're like okay if there

is a kitten who's lost or there is you know a

whale who's caught in an oil spill in the bay

or you know someone has to fix the lighthouse

like who do we call and we call these first responders

who are represented by these dogs that's not

a bad idea necessarily but then it gets into

like If the dogs are just rescuing space aliens

and dinosaurs and stuff that like nobody has

that job. What, what on earth? Right. So like

it, it really dilutes that message when you get

into, you know, insane land, which I think is

where they go very often. I will say though,

the giant purple dinosaur Rex or whatever his

name was that was getting out of control. It

was whichever a guy was the inventor like no,

I don't want you to dance I want you to walk

forward and then the the dinosaur just went nuts

and his Flamethrower breath started that's why

the fire pups come and basically they shoot the

water into the dinosaurs mouth to deact basically

to Ruin the circuitry. So it was more of this

inventor did something and let accidentally let

the dinosaur like run amok kind of thing in the

Paw Patrol. It wasn't because they were trying

to insert dinosaurs into modern day or anything.

It was a fake robot. If it wasn't giant and purple

and Barney looking, it could have been Grimlock

from the Transformers for all we know. So it

was one of those things where that would be a

reason to call the first response. Your fire

-breathing dinosaur is out of control and he's

about to destroy the town. We must stick our

hose in his mouth and Spray his fire breath with

water so he doesn't kill anybody. Yeah, I don't

know again No, that's fair. But you know, just

you know, they do insert that eventually that

maybe dinosaurs into the world Again folks, I

want to make this episode completely clear Am

NOT a parent. I just grew up on children's television

and Yeah, I'm just saying there's a there's a

thing There's like a dinosaur world that they

go to eventually and there's a whole series called

Dino rescue Which is part which is like a little

subset of this Paw Patrol thing So yeah, they

started with robot dinosaurs and then ended up

with real ones. So I don't I mean, yeah, it's

it's that that's where they go. I mean I think

Yeah, I just think that The nonsensicalness of

it and the fact that it's this weird sort of

good versus evil dichotomy is problematic and

there are better ways to do it. There are so

many shows, one of my favorites is called Octonauts

and it's a British series I believe and it ran

for five seasons and then they have a new version

of it called Octonauts Above and Beyond because

originally the Octonauts were a team of underwater

explorers. Again, these are all animals because

this is for kids, right? So the head guy is Captain

Barnacles. He's a polar bear. And they have Professor

Shellington, who is, I believe, a bear. And there's

like an octopus and a cat with one eye and a

bunch of weird. There's also a turnip, like a

literal turnip. He's a vegetable. So that in

and of itself is weird. But the premise of the

show is that they answer rescue calls under the

sea for various animals and creatures who need

help and It's all based in science. So it's like

they will have to evacuate a bunch of animals

from a place where they know there's going to

be an underwater volcano and it's very like Intent

or there's gonna be flash freezing and they have

to get you know whales out of the bay before

this happens things like that, there's tons of

Adventure and high octane stuff, but it's all

real science stuff that happens and they're no

villains The villain is the event right the villain

is like yeah You have to stop this world ending

like you have to we have to plug the volcano

kind of thing Yeah, yeah, or we have to it's

the rescue itself and they also created another

series called creature cases which I want to

plug which is really funny and clever and it's

kind of like a James Bond parody and it's these

two I think a fox and a some other kind of cat

wolf thing, I don't really know. They are on

missions and they go out to investigate these

cases that they're sent on. And it's all animal

cases. And they've they've personified all the

animals, you know, so they, for example, there

was one where it was the case of the raging rhinos.

And they went to this nightclub where these rhinos

had torn up this place and they tried to figure

out what happened. Why did these rhinos go crazy?

But it's a real phenomenon. that happens, obviously

not at nightclubs. But what they're doing is

they're creating a fake little fun world where

they interview people and the bartender is like,

I don't know what happened. I know he was just

drinking his drink and he went nuts. But they're

actually talking about a real phenomenon and

then they describe like, oh, sometimes in the

wild. Will be very clear. I don't remember what

happened or why rhinos rage So like don't look

to me for real scientific advice But if these

are real phenomenon that they're investigating

and kids are learning about these phenomenon

through these really fun Devices right and there's

no you know The rhinos are kind of the villain

in the beginning like why do these rhinos go

crazy, but you're really just solving sort of

a nature mystery and Yeah, it's not, it's not

this simple dichotomy, but it's still silly and

fun. And there's still tons of like adventure

and action sequences. And I think, you know,

there are so many shows like that that are really

clever. And I, there seems to be a line between

shows like that and then shows where you have

these villains who are over and over again, doing

these kind of crazy, similarly themed chaos adventures

every episode, right? Right. So Octonauts the

original show October 4th of 2010 to March 30th

of 21 So it had a damn good run and like you

said it it had other It had a another new TV

series spinoff So I've scrolled past the all

the character names and I'm looking at the vegimals

Vegimals are the half animal half vegetable creatures

and I'm just thinking to myself I do not want

to eat a piece of codfish with radish in it.

I do not want to eat a piece of halibut with

a beet in it. Broccoli, mackerel, like this is

like, like, this is like fear factor type stuff

here, man, just no. Yeah, I don't understand

that part at all. But, you know, that's I guess

that's the thing that's fun about kid shows is

It's not that you can't, you cannot have these

weird elements. You can, you just have to set

it up as a weird element. And then we also spend

our disbelief and it's like, what are you doing

with that weird element? Right? Like we, when

you watch Octonauts, you're like, okay, vegetables

exist. That's a thing. Weird, but that's a consistent

thing, a quirky element of the show that just

exists. Yeah, no, and I'm just kind of like sitting

here making fun of, I'm not, I'm not trying to,

you know, whatever, but like, I'm sorry. A yam

chovy? Half anchovy, half yam? Look, you can

keep the yams. I'll just take the cranberry sauce

home from Thanksgiving. Thank you very much.

Oh, boy. What other recommendations do you have?

You said Octonauts. You said, what was the second

one you said? Creature Cases. It's by the same

creator as Octonauts. Yeah, it's got two seasons

on Netflix. I think it's like a Netflix original,

so it probably is in the States. I could be wrong,

but I'm pretty sure it is. You all know classic

Magic School Bus, right? That was like in 1990s.

So there was the Magic School Bus Rides Again

series, which only ran for two seasons, but it's

really great too. And it's, you know, sometimes

kids shy away from older animation because they

don't like the way it looks. So if there's any

of that going on, this is a good alternative.

And it's, I believe Kate McKinnon is the voice

of... the new Miss Frizzle and it's not like

a remake. She's Miss Frizzle's younger sister

and she shows up to Miss Frizzle has been has

taken a new job and she's a professor at a university.

And so her sister comes to teach her old class

and they go on adventures. And again, the adventures

are all science, right? Like they're stuck in

crazy situations, but it's all science. Spirit

Rangers two seasons on Netflix and it is by all

indigenous writers and it's about bunch of indigenous

kids I believe who are kind of park rangers in

a way and they also have these I Just blanked

on the word secret identities as it's kind of

superpowers based on Indigenous myths and lore

they have they turn into kind of these animals

and they're protecting Again, this is a lot of

this is me trying to remember watching this show

and what it was but It's clever and it has that

same effect where they're protecting something,

there's adventure, but there's no villains. It's

not that kind of show. Obviously, there are lots

of shows that are different, that aren't super

high adventure like Doc McStuffins. Kids love

that on Disney+. Ada Twist, Scientist, that's

another Netflix show that's sort of about science

but more like based in the real world. even though

it's animated, StoryBots, which is kind of a

hybrid show where kids learn things through these

segments, but it's like these little cartoon

bots that they get asked questions like, why

do our eyes see? And then they kind of investigate

in their real videos explaining that kind of

stuff. Yeah, I mean, there's more of these as

well. But for every one of those, there's also

one of these shows where it's just kind of like

these. You know, I'll get you Paw Patrol people.

And you know what's weird is that so many of

these villains, they're all after gems. Like,

I know this is going to sound weird, but like,

my son is constantly talking about magic opals.

OK, what on earth are you talking about? Like,

I think it started with Spider -Man and the Doc

Ock character is female, sort of, I think, based

on the Into the Spider -Verse character. And

apparently she's always trying to steal gems.

And this happened in another show as well. And

I'm just like, what is it with these gems? What

are these gems? It's like magic gems. But, you

know, he's like, he's going on about a lot of

gems. And this is like a thing where every episode

these villains are trying to take gems and they

have to protect the gems. It's a weird, weird

thing. I don't, I don't get at all. What is this?

But it seems to be quite common. Yeah. There

was a book when I was a kid. I'm trying to find

it. There it is. It's behind me somewhere, but

I know I ordered it off of somewhere. This is

an old book. It was written by James Marshall.

This was circa 1985. Miss Nelson is missing.

Miss Nelson's class always acts up, especially

when their teacher is absent from school. But

after a week with their strict substitute, Viola

Swamp, the kids can't wait for Miss Nelson to

come back. So the basic thing with this is it

was Miss Nelson all the time. She just... Put

on a black dress and acted mean to the kid. She

wasn't acting mean She was more strict, but I

remember this book like it was yester Wow. Yeah,

it was harry allard and and james marshall and

i'll have to Take some well, I can't take screenshots

because it's a physical book but i'll take some

pictures and send them to you because It's another

one of those like teaching think of like sideways

stories at wayside school that kind of stuff

and yeah I don't know man. She'll Children's

entertainment really has changed over the last

40 years. It really has. Yeah. And I think it's

hard to it's hard to be a parent and to try to

figure out like, are you limiting things or are

you teaching alongside them? Are you like watching

it with them and saying, okay, I get we like

this show, you know, trying to insert some of

your own You know, don't you think this is a

little stereotypical or that kind of stuff into

it? And you know, they want to watch what all

their friends are watching, right? And and so

it's challenging. Yeah. And I don't I struggle

between wondering whether it's just the perspective

that's different. Like, again, you know, were

we watching just as crappy stuff in the 80s if

you count all of the cartoons that we ended up

watching? Because those were just obvious places

to sell toys. They were toys first and then they

were shows, right? So if you count that stuff,

you know, has it has anything really changed

or are we just do we have a lack of Of um of

sesame streets or we're just suffering from a

lack of sesame streets You know, I don't know

like there will never be another sesame street.

So it's hard to say. Yeah Yeah, I don't know

I don't know either Alright folks, we're gonna

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uh, the Paw Patrol saved me. I suppose a thank

you is in order. You and your kittens really

made a mess. We just wanted to win the spotless

town trophy. We're sorry. If you're really sorry,

you won't mind helping out a little. All right,

we are back here on this GeekCast radio studio

2009 crossover talking about the problems with

pawprick Yeah, I can't say that five times fast

There's just not a way to do it and children's

television programming then now and forever Question

mark. I don't know any final thoughts from you

ma 'am. I guess You know my final thought would

be well I mean obviously my first thought that

led to all this was just Constantly railing about

how much Paw Patrol sucks and that is still true

But I think it's just a bigger thing where I

would just love to see more children's programming

that is more focused on fun education that's

well written rather than this kind of like crack

for kids formula about villains and good guys

that sells toys, you know, and I think it's happening

to younger and younger kids, this sort of like

toy selling formula. And I just hope we're in

for a shift at some point. I don't know. We don't

really have a lot of strength in public television

anymore. So who's to say? But yeah, if you can

avoid. your kids watching Paw Patrol before they

know what it is, just don't let them know it

exists, because that's what I wish I had done.

Go back in time and just not even show them the

photo on Netflix. Like, what's Netflix? Just

keep watching those YouTubes of Old Sesame Street.

That's really my final thought. Only ever just

watch, just watch Classic Sesame Street. Just

do it all day. You won't regret it. I can agree

with that. I wonder though, like what, because

again, I don't know. So you mind if I say your

son's, I just, I don't want to, you know. Yeah,

sure. Of course. So Jax is four at this point.

Yes, he is. I remember when I was four, five,

six, seven and eight in the eighties, I went

from He -Man to Mask to Transformers to Turtles

to whatever. And then I eventually ended up watching

stuff like Cheers. And as a child, Cheers, the

Cosby show, yes, I know the man is a monster,

but the show taught me lessons. It is what it

is. And all that. But I'm wondering now, with

Jax being four years old, as he grows up, what

kind of television is he going to want to watch?

Or what would you and your husband be watching?

I don't even know what that landscape would look

like. I mean, yeah, that's a good question because,

you know, again, I also watched Shira when I

was six and I grew up to watch what I think are

pretty intelligent television shows. So it's

not so much that the shows are going to ruin

these children. I guess it's that the shows are

being made instead of something like Sesame Street.

So like I did watch Shira and it was, you know,

a little bit silly and no, it didn't ruin me.

But I also got to watch. Classic Sesame Street.

I also got to watch those shows. I had those

experiences on top of the other experiences.

And I think what's missing now is a lack of that

diversity in the landscape, right? You know,

if all you're watching is shows like Paw Patrol

and kids don't get that experience of watching

something like Sesame Street and there is nothing

that exists like it. Yeah, I just lament the

fact that they are missing out on that kind of

experience. You know what I mean? And I don't

maybe there's equivalent things out there on

YouTube or different things. Maybe it's not through

traditional television. I mean, traditional television.

It's streaming anyway. But maybe there are different

media forums that they are interacting with or

learning in the same way that we did with Sesame

Street. But I don't know. I don't know where

it is. And yeah, I'm not sure. I don't think

it's going to make my kid grow up to be, you

know, have poor taste. Let's hope not. I mean,

you know, the kids learn from the parents. So

as long as you don't, which I'm pretty sure you

don't have a lot of poor tastes. Yeah, sure.

Yeah, I guess. I guess you're correct in that.

It's true. I mean, you know, it's like you teach

your kid. the difference between right and wrong

but like again we grew up with like McGruff the

crime dog or the dare program here in the states

you know drug abuse resistance you know all that

and I who knows I mean as long as you know people

stare the children who are the future of this

world that we live in in the right direction,

then I guess nothing can potentially go wrong.

I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I think I just

talked myself into a humdinger. Yeah. All right.

Well, I'm going to end this one for now. Where

can the people find you online if they if you'd

like to have the people interact with you? You

know what, I am almost nowhere online these days.

That's pretty bad. I used to give my Twitter

handle, but like I just admitted that I don't

tweet anymore really. And my Instagram and Facebook

are now private because I have children and I've

learned you really shouldn't broadcast their

faces to the world as much as I was doing. So

stay tuned because I haven't really decided where

my online presence is going from here and what

my next creative venture is. Yeah. Well, I just

joined Blue Sky, so there's that. And I'm not

a person that wants to join any of these new

social media things, but so far it's been an

interesting experience. Not a bad experience,

so that's good. I might become a TikToker, who

knows. It's a good place to rant, so we'll see.

Oh boy. Wow, I can definitely envision that one.

All right. Thank you for listening to us here

on GeekCast Radio and Studio 2009. If you'd like

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you enjoyed this episode. I wish you'll join

us next time when we will be talking about. Something

I don't know what geek cast radio is doing for

the next one. It might be another I've been doing

a lot of I've got friends that attend various

conventions and Sometimes they are helping run

the convention. So I've been doing a bunch of

conventions convention recaps here on geek cast

radio in the first year 2009 I think we're gonna

be reviewing Batman forever and Batman and Robin

So for now I am TF2 and Mike with Jennifer Kaufman.

Thank you for listening. Until next time.