The Punisher #1-2 by Edmondson and Gerad Review

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on the Geekcast Radio Network. And now, on with

the show. I'm not a nice person. Hello and welcome

to The Pole Bag. This is Marvelous March and

this is episode 61 .1. Yes, you've heard that

correctly, folks. I'm your host TF2 and Mike.

And returning to The Pole Bag, welcome to Marvelous

March, Mr. Ryan the Uneven Flow. Hello, sir.

Just admit you can't count to 62. Jerk. You're

like an elephant trying to get to like Half -Life

3 or something. No. No, no, no, no, no. Alright,

so what have you been up to? I think the last

time we heard from you was Punisher Month. What

have you been doing since then? Nothing. Not

really, pretty much. Nothing. Yeah. Watching

video games and work. That's always good. And

we are here in this special kind of episode for

Marvelous March. I didn't think this character

was going to make it into this month, but...

Since they decided to reboot the Punisher, at

number one, we have the first two issues for

the new Punisher series by Edmondson and Girard's.

I'm only picking this up out of sheer interest

because I thought they were going to, this is

just what I thought, I know this isn't what it

is, but I thought they were going to continue

where Rukka left off with maybe... No, I know.

I know, but I'm saying, like, with Rachel going

to L .A., I figured that's something. Frank decided

to go to L .A. instead, apparently. Yeah, but...

All right, so... Punisher number one, what do

you think of the cover? I like it. The covers

to these are really good. For anyone who hasn't

seen them, take a look at the pictures online

if you can. It's... really striking they sort

of i don't know how to explain it it's kind of

fragmented and it's mitch garrens is doing the

cover art as well and he does the interior art

and it's these sort of i don't even know how

to describe it almost sort of like fractured

broken apart uh kind of covers use a lot of use

of like uh blue and white as the colors and that's

about it Issue one is basically Frank lording

over L .A., over the city, and in the backdrop

of him is a map of L .A. Yeah, take that, L .A.

And I really do like it. I like the new logo

for the title. I thought that was really interesting.

I don't know, coming off of Punishing Month and

coming off all that content, I... Was still interested

I still wanted ruckus run to go longer than what

it did. I think everybody wanted that Yeah, and

it's been funny seeing that reaction and especially

now The thing with ruckus his stuff sells really

well in trades and that's actually continued

a lot more people have read this now than read

the title month -to -month unfortunately, and

that's something I tried to explain to Marvel

that if you let Rucker write miniseries or if

you let him write and then you don't expect maybe

the individual issues to sell well, but you expect

the trades to, he'll do really well for you.

I mean, Lazarus has been a huge hit for him and

it's getting like quite a bit of a claim and

the trades, the pre -orders and everything for

the trades are crazy. He's a guy that writes

really well for trade and it's interesting because

Edmondson sort of seems to be continuing that

as we'll get to. But yeah, it's it's not a continuation

of Roca at all and in fact, no, it's not it's

a whole new series Yeah, and it'll be interesting

to see if I think somebody at some point is gonna

pick up the thread of Rachel being around I mean

Thing with comics is at some point pretty much

everything gets picked up ie Bruce Wayne sleeping

with Talia gets picked up 20 years later So I

mean stuff like that, you know at some point

It'll be featured, but yeah right now not right

now apparently One of the worst things they ever

did to Bruce Wayne He gave sleep with racist

daughter. That was fine. That was a fairly I

don't know some of the demon wasn't a bad story

Yeah All right, so Punisher number one. This

art is really interesting Yeah, again Mitch Garen's

is on the interior for it I Will just get into

it now. I guess I liked his art overall. It is

completely different from Marco Chicharru's His

art was fantastic on ruckus run and I actually

really like this Art as well. Like I say, it's

completely different I don't even really know

how to describe it. I mean he uses shape a lot

more than most artists Yeah, he uses shape and

he uses there's a lot more color to it than a

lot of other Punisher artists to like it's a

lot brighter. Oh Yeah, it's it's very bright

but it's a it's weird that it's also it's a combination

of being bright and being dark at the same time

because if you look at the second page at the

top you've got his I guess what is his scope

and it's all in blue and white and then like

at the bottom of the page is two panels where

all these people are in red and It's it's really

interesting well it's not his scope but anyway

it's uh the retreated to the opening the first

two pages which is the howling commando is pulling

somebody out of an operation where they were

undercover for some time and then they get a

new a new mission which anyone paying even the

least bit of attention to any comics will know

that that mission is going to be to go either

pick up or off or whatever The Punisher. You

generally don't just randomly feature guys at

the start of a run and just have them there like,

oh, what's our mission? It's to hunt wolverine.

OK. Say, isn't this The Punisher? So that's generally

not how it goes. But yeah, we're treated to the

howling commandos in a really quick sort of two

page sequence that Establishes that they're gonna

be part of this run. We have no idea why and

that includes issue two, by the way We still

don't know why they're after him. We just know

that they are and they're talking about how they're

going to You know make him face death early that

kind of thing because really everyone who's threatened

castle and you know Decades now that's gone really

well for them Yeah, no, I know that it's been

about I don't know 20 episodes of the podcast

since we did punish a month, but good lord. I

don't remember him Monologuing this much. No,

he didn't in the rucka run. They very much took

that away from him and it was one of the more

It was one of the more controversial decisions

that rucka made was to do that because traditionally

the character monologues a lot. And the most

of the speech in the Punisher books is Frank's

inner monologue. And for whatever reason, Rucka

decided to buck that trend, which was something

I thought was really neat. And yeah, Edmondson

has decided to go back to it. And he probably,

I don't know, he monologues probably about as

much as Ennis' Punisher did. He's got quite a

bit of dialogue in this issue, too and You know

going back to where we are. There's this I really

liked the arts by the way of Frank underwater

Yeah, that was awesome. Yeah, and that's this

the sort of next page in the book as he hunts

Danny Trejo I mean a bunch of drug And he shows

like a wry sense of humor here whenever he kills

him which was entertaining, too uh so i mean

i like that and i swam way too far just to wound

you i love that line yeah he's got a very sort

of wry sense of humor through this book but yeah

we're introduced to frank he offs this cartel

he finds out that you know he's going to be going

to la it seems to hunt down the rest of them

and so that's where he goes and so we get the

final page of him on a boat I'm assuming he didn't

take the boat to LA that would be a little difficult

so Well, you never know maybe things flooded

maybe name or cleared a path But and then we

pick it off up with You know, he's now in LA

and probably easily the most controversial sequence

of Punisher books in a long time as Frank sitting

in a diner as Frank and we meet some of our supporting

cast. There's a cook here who I'm gonna think

of it. Give me some help here. I don't know that

the cook's name is listed. He's not listed on

a firm number, right? You know, I don't think

it is it is to so many. Yeah I think it's issue

two that it is because he says something about

coffee. So all right, whatever we meet our supporting

cast here and Lou there we go is the Lou Lou

is the cook in the diner Lou by the way, it should

be pointed out especially in issue two clearly

knows who Frank is Yeah, why it's made like completely

obvious he knows and this is not surprising Given

that he runs around without a mask and oh, yeah,

he's the biggest mass murderer on the entire

planet If I remember correctly, I can't man.

What's the I don't remember what the name of

the site is But there's a place that keeps track

of the differently killers in the Marvel Universe

Frank is over 3 ,000 Yeah, he is actually ahead

of Wolverine and some of the other Antiheroes

he is behind of saber tooth apparently but he's

ahead of pretty much everyone with the exception

of saber tooth and galactus. So Well to be fair

galactus does yeah for breakfast. I mean, yeah

Unicron by the way, totally ahead of galactus

but Yes, exactly unicorns way cooler, but anyway,

so whatever we get the diner scene and now we

get into Probably my biggest problem with the

series and I should preface this by saying that

I like the series overall and I like this version

of Frank Frank here in the diner is a lot more

friendly and he's chatting with Lou He's very

friendly with him and he meets Sam for the first

time here who he's also sort of friendly with

Get some advice where to hold like a gun and

a flashlight yeah and then he for he subsequently

meets Tubbs who is his military contact who by

the way is stealing weapons from the US military

to give to Frank Castle that's not a good thing

no I actually kind of have an issue with that

it's one yeah Frank is stealing weapons from

the people he kills or supervillains which we

see regularly I'm not as cool with him knowingly

stealing from the US military. Again, it's another

thing if he gets his stuff second hand from the

black market and it's clearly been taken from

the military, but at least it's not him doing

it. Yeah, it's not him doing it directly. The

idea of Frank Castle potentially taking, say,

a rocket launcher And then someone in the field

for the military now. I know this is very unlikely

I'm just saying that someone in the military

going gee. I wish we had a rocket launcher right

now, but we're a short one this month Yeah, that's

not something I could see him letting happen

and it's a little odd That's not my biggest issue

or anything also tubs by the way seems to be

a bit of a toolbox He's not depicted as the sharpest

tool in the shed And I'll get back to Issues

with that later. I'm just Skipped yeah stuff

Issue one. I liked it. I I like I love the art

the art is Mitch Garren's draws a very good not

just Punisher He draws everything well like the

vehicles actually look quite good. The backgrounds

are really detailed I like his I really like

the coloring here, too Yeah, the coloring is

just amazing So we have the diner scene and then

the... Just outside the diner scene with him

getting his guns and everything. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's just... It was a really interesting

read. It's interesting for me, as someone who

doesn't read this character regularly, to see

him outside of the Marvel Universe's main city.

I'm okay with that getting oh, yeah getting him

out of New York is a good idea Because your choices

are pretty limited with Frank there. You can

either sort of do what rocket did and have him

Around but almost shifting in and out of the

community of superheroes and stuff Which I thought

rocket did really well and he tied them in by

using other characters like Nora from spider

-man And it should be noted that you know guys

like Ennis did that a lot too with Jen cook and

some of the other ones but anyway Yeah, I mean

moving him out of New York some of that idea

Although it seems like everybody's going west

all of a sudden. That's a different story for

a different series though. I Don't know always

gonna have those West Coast Avengers yeah anyway

so yeah we move away from him getting his weapons

to the sequence where he's following his target

uh hector and he you know quick very quickly

and rapidly takes out hector's bodyguards well

takes them out of the picture it's not made clear

that he kills them which is okay uh because we

don't know if they're bad or not but we know

hector is And then we get Frank driving Hector

around. And again, Frank's pretty chatty here,

unlike previous versions. I mean, it took really

until issue 12 of Rukka's series for him to say

an awful lot. And that's not out of the ordinary.

Most writers tend to write them as pretty quiet,

with the exception of the internal monologue.

So whatever, he chats with his new friend Hector

and tortures some information out of him. yeah

yeah drug lab uh using the cigarette lighter

from frank's vehicle that he's borrowed and somebody's

not getting back yeah no as usual never loan

frank your vehicles by the way oh that was as

a side note by the way the uh breaking bad reference

with his mobile home is cute as much as i'm not

really a fan of the series i did really enjoy

that i thought that was kind of cool So anyway

Frank blows up with a drug lab with the rocket

launcher that the US military could have used

on a Tuesday, but don't have anymore thanks to

him and We sort of go back to the diner and it's

mentioned that you know, the police know that

the Punisher is in town Pretty hard not to tell

when running around murdering scores of people

with a giant skull on his chest, but hey They

figured it out. So whatever and you know we find

out that there's a punisher detail now with the

cops and we see the howling commandos at the

ends talking about how they're gonna and frank's

life for sure shortness life expectancy blah

blah blah the usual sort of stuff what do you

think of the scene uh... right before we get

back into the diner when he's walking away on

on the page where the diner scene is again comic

book companies number your frigging pages of

single issues uh... it's he's he's just at the

bottom the thing is the car explodes and he's

got what i assume you insulted my car well at

least it was a canadian car Uh, he's got, I assume

it's some sort of, it's not a bandolier, but

it's some sort of belt, but it's up around his

chest. What do you think of that design? Yeah,

it carries the stuff up high and the teeth of

the skull are sort of painted over it. Yeah,

I don't know if I like that. I don't know, I

think it's fine. The only sort of downer is I

don't know how exposed his sort of stomach area

is. because in previous versions the particularly

ruckus the entire sort of skull area was a vest

it wasn't just a shirt he hasn't taken a bullet

or anything so I have no idea what his protection

is on this at least for the most part I mean

Garen's and Edmondson have portrayed him so far

as a very competent military tactician Yeah,

so I would assume that there's some protection

there Slash hope so hope it's not all just that

little like short bandolier. I don't know. I'm

okay with it. I am hardly a Military expert so

I have no idea how functional that would be if

it's easier to reach up like that than it is

to reach lower ie You know Batman's utility belt

and pretty much everybody else's Yeah I mean

it would be different if it was because if you

look at the last page it shows it basically it's

in the middle of his chest up slightly above

his stomach and of course you can't see all of

it because he's holding a gun in his hand but

he's usually holding a gun in his hand well yes

but he's in his kitchen with all of his guns

and forks and knives and spoons and It looks

like it's higher than on his stomach and yeah,

you're right. It just I don't know I'm not gonna

take a point off of it because of oh my god.

It's he has a beard quick docum Yeah, there you

go Jake he has a beard The first issue I enjoyed

it I thought it was really cool. It's a nice

little setup to what he's What he's going after

Would probably give it I Don't know if I can

give it a perfect but I probably give it a four

out of five Yeah, I wouldn't give it a perfect

or anything. It was a solid first issue. I'll

argue this though on the opposite side It's pretty

tough to write a bad first issue for the Punisher

Yeah, I mean you have to be fairly incompetent

to not have you know a little bit of a story

And then you kill a couple people and that's

it for your comic Although to be fair there have

been so many people have screwed it up over the

years that who knows so whatever Where the page

can't maybe it's just me where the page counts

different on issue one and issue two As in you'd

argue which one is thicker To yeah, I would tend

to agree. I don't know I didn't actually sit

down and sort of count them up. It does like

there's pages in two Yeah, cuz one feels like

it's really thin That and it feels like there's

more ads in one Well does I mean Maybe I'm Completely

off. I mean, I'm sure somebody out there is gonna

count it up now But I don't know. We just it

does feel like one is shorter than two Less than

two you heard that here first Speaking of two

Insert segue here Go ahead start it off. I don't

know again like the cover cover arts good. We

kind of touched on it with the first one this

one is Frank riding a motorcycle with Electricity

all around him hint hint nudge nudge And again

like the original it opens with some pretty interesting

use of color this time. It's a Red presumably

to sort of depict the hot Sun In Mexico, this

is set, you know months before this series started

right, right What do you think of that? Really

brief introduction page at the beginning know

the sort of like summary of yeah That's fine.

They usually a lot of comics now do that. I'm

not surprised to see it No, no, I know but I

think it's great that they do that because you

can I'm not gonna lie. I really liked Rucka's

stuff. He did by using stuff from the Newspapers

Yeah, that was cool. I really liked that newspapers

or sometimes it would be web articles or that

sort of thing as summaries and so it was written

from the perspective of somebody following what

was going on and that was kind of a neat touch

that in a way a little bit further Put him into

the Marvel Universe Oh, yeah, I completely agree.

Yeah, I actually really like that And I mean

you could see like snippets of other articles

regarding other things happening in New York

And that was just a nice touch. Yeah, it was

well with this one What I like about it is the

top half above the title. It's kind of like hey

This actor's name is above the title, you know

I like how it is basically his origin in Less

than a full paragraph. It's just one You know

that one of the big criticisms and people are

fans got upset About with Ruckus run is he they

took him out of Vietnam and for whatever reason

Edmondson's getting a complete pass for doing

the same thing I'm in the era of Frank being

a Vietnam vet. I think it's pretty much done

Yeah And then I love how it says previously.

It's kind of like a cartoon. Previously on The

Punisher. I love that. That's awesome. But yeah,

you're right. This New Mexico... I wonder when

Edmunds wrote this because... or Edmondson, I'm

sorry. I wonder when he wrote this because both

of these issues have a real Breaking Bad feel

to them, don't they? yeah as far as the design

and the art and the and some of the locations

that were chosen for the story it's interesting

you bring that up because i had another like

segue about all that later so anyway continuing

on yes uh so we are in this pink desert Yeah,

again, I think it's meant to show there's sort

of the Sun or the yeah drawing Sun or something

like that, but I don't know actually like that

though it Makes it look different and it definitely

stands out from other versions of the character

and the comics and everything Oh, yeah, I mean

it's great So we have him he in the first issue

we got this tip off and he's going to investigate

that And apparently somebody else has already

been there So yeah, they've been killed by some

sort of biological weapon. It looks like too

Yeah, which is something he mentions later on

to tubs or tubs mentions to him actually later

on and Yeah, so he investigates that and then

it's kind of interesting because they switch

over when we return to now in Los Angeles or

quote outside unquote Los Angeles it's through

Frank's scope and so we go from like everything

being filtered in red to everything filtered

in green and then it's nighttime and it's sort

of a bluish they use but yeah Frank intercepts

a meeting between aim and his sort of cartel

pals are they gonna I don't think they'll do

this, but are they gonna really bring in Iron

Man to upon us your title? Since it is aim. Oh,

no. I mean aim works with everybody remember

Frank thought them in Rucka's run to Yeah, that's

true names kind of everywhere despite the fact

that they I don't remember aim ever doing anything

particularly competently at any point in the

Marvel universe though Well when you have a Douche

pack like Killian running it. Yeah. No, yeah,

and you've got Modoc who's completely unhinged

working for you, etc. Etc. It's a little difficult

Anyway, so Frank sees well almost sees whatever

this weapon is He's blinded before then and makes

some noise and then has to kill The two guys

that come looking for them or for him whoops

Yes And there he picks up his dog who they should

have just called Max after, well, it's a coyote,

but I keep thinking of Mad Max's or Max Ruktanski's

dog. Actually, no, sorry. He just called his

dog dog. That's right. I forgot about that. That

dog was not a bounty hunter. Wow. Dated pointless

reference to a resist. Oh, come on. That's great.

yeah too bad that bounty hunter only caught people

that were one color apparently anyway whoa okay

so the title for this story what i can't make

fun of his rampant racism fine anyway yeah frank

saves the coyote gets shot by the two guys that

were after him I can't help but flashback to

our Hawkeye coverage and that this is going to

be Frank's version of pizza dog. That would be

awesome if we got like an issue from the dogs

perspective. No, no, no, no, no. I would enjoy

that. Unfortunately, I don't think Edmondson

is all that interested in doing things outside

the norm, as I'll hit on later. Anyway, and then

we go back to the diner and now I'm going to

go off for a few minutes. Go ahead. Sam is apparently

the worst cop in the history of planet Earth.

Are you kidding me? Alright, so in this issue,

and then in an interview Edmondson did, it's

made clear that Sam does not know who the Punisher

is. Are you kidding me? Like seriously? Again,

he's killed more than 3 ,000 people. He just

recently had a canon event which involved the

quote trial of the century Where Rachel was put

on trial for his crimes? Yeah, and then So whatever,

the police also know he's in town. Do you know

what the police usually do when they know a mass

murderer is in town? They probably hand out a

picture or two. That, and they put out an all

points bulletin and everything else. Here's the

thing with this character though, I don't, are

we led to believe that, okay, I know this is

the Marvel, this is the Marvel 616 universe,

don't get me wrong, I understand that. But are

we led to believe that this is con - We know

this isn't a continuation from Rukka. So I mean...

I don't see, like... Are all the Punisher stories

like starting with Rukka going into that mini

series that you mentioned, which we did cover

in Punisher Mod? That wasn't I was referencing

the trial in Russia or Russia with the trial

in Rukka's series. Because remember, we saw the

newspaper for Rachel. It's also it should also

be noted, even if you ignore all that, the Punisher

has been caught by police like a million different

times. He's been in prison repeatedly. It's impossible

that they don't have pictures of him. yeah and

he was also in the military I'm pretty sure they

would have some pictures even though apparently

didn't go to Vietnam anymore was she is she supposed

to be inhumanly dumb apparently okay that's all

right so anyway hold on let me ask you this first

I assume by her uniform she's like a first -year

rookie right out of the Academy She's a patrolman

or a patrol person. I should say And it just

it I don't know Maybe they don't teach how to

catch the Punisher and in the police academy.

No, there's absolutely no excuse for this I mean,

it's no I'm not It's lazy stupid writing is what

it is and I find it really aggravating because

you're you're pretty much insulting the intelligence

of everyone reading this and When Edmondson does

stuff like this if you read the letters page

and some of his other interviews He you know,

he talks about how all the howling commandos

are gonna cause trouble for Frank And then I

read that and I think to myself, oh, gee, more

trouble than your police officers who can't identify

the guy with a big skull on his chest that runs

around with no mask. Yeah, that's real threatening

right there. Dealing with a group of geniuses.

Listen, I don't mind some level of suspension

of disbelief, but don't write my characters that

are dumber than everybody on the polka dot door.

I mean, for Christ's sake, this is. Fucking lazy

stupid writing and I'm angry too because it's

every single trope rolled into one Of course,

it has to be the woman that's too stupid to identify

Frank every other idiot. He comes across in this

book can identify him This is just ridiculously

dumb and unless Edmondson has like some sort

of Unless he's working towards something. I cannot

see People continuing with this. I mean the number

of comments and everything else about this on

not Punisher boards because I'll get into that

later Not Punisher boards, but I mean on other

boards like you know CBR and IGN and any for

anyone who reviews comment comics who just say

this is ridiculously stupid Yeah, a lot of those

people are probably going to drop this as they

continue to apparently have their intelligence

insulted Yeah, this I don't know I was going

with this or what the point is There's two possible

outcomes for this and neither of them are good

number one is we get this stupid scene where

she's Asking him out for a drink or something

and he goes. Oh, well, actually I'm the Punisher

and The entire audience goes well duh Or number

two and this is the one I would actually favor

I hope he walks into the diner with the skull

on at one point Be it by accident or he's injured

or whatever. He wanders in Everybody looks at

him and goes holy shit. It's the Punisher and

then he pulls the shirt off and everyone goes

off Frank Where'd the Punisher go? What happened?

Why don't they just make him the pokeroo? I guess

is what I'm asking but yeah, this is terrible

writing, and Edmondson's better than this. I

mean, as Black Widow, he can write fine without

her essentially having to beat people. I also

really don't like the idea of Frank having a

secret identity to anyone, much less the dumbest

police officer on planet Earth. You're taking

away something that makes him different from

all the superheroes with this, and I'm not a

big fan of that. I mean, in all honesty, this

may as well just be another book in the Bat family

at this point. He's got a secret identity by

day, he can hang out with people, blah, blah,

blah, and then by night he's somebody else. I

mean, he could actually be the Huntress. but

i'm sick of his and uh... yeah worth thirty three

minutes into this episode ladies and gentlemen

and the quote from from issue one as soon as

i read that and now what ryan's saying about

he could be anyone from the bat family and i

know this is gonna piss jake off and i'm gonna

say it just to do it so punisher is nightly in

this series regards but i don't know i would

actually agree with that completely and i have

a feeling jake would too oh and by the way back

on the topic i need to finish this off before

i like start going back to my senses and stop

swearing about it and being angry just leave

the target for me no that's all oh yeah that's

fine uh one last thing about this too people

argued that well you know in ennis's series he

could run around Yeah, but everybody knew who

he was in Ennis' series, the exception being

the sort of idiots that Ma Nucci would hire.

And they didn't know him, but I mean, Ennis went

out of his way to depict them as stupid and oblivious

to things. And in fact, there's the sequence

where Punisher is actually surprised when one

of them recognizes him when he's out, you know,

following Ma and he's in his full garb. These

are not the brightest people in the world and

I would also argue that the Russian who was depicted

as basically the dumbest human on the planet

until Sam came along The Russian who is really

stupid recognizes Frank from looking at the picture

of him once Every other police officer in all

the Punisher books is able to figure out who

he is Soap and Molly were able to follow him

and recognize him when he didn't have the skull

on his chest for example And Bolt and Ozzy followed

him again. Same thing. So I Don't know. This

is really frustrating to me. I don't okay. Okay,

calm down. I just don't take I just don't appreciate

my books being dumbed down this much I mean we

came off of this really in -depth Run where they

established the universe really well and Frank's

place in it and everything else And we get to

this new one and we have all these unanswered

questions. Like, OK, is Frank, is Frank all right

that he's stealing stuff from the US military?

It's a question I could use answered. How did

Sam pass even the first day of kindergarten being

that it is question number two and question number

three? How stupid does Edmondson think the people

are that read this? Those are my three questions

and I'm sure yours is going to do with why is

he wearing a Hawkeye shirt Calm down and take

a breath. Yeah. All right, you know what you

so here's the thing My previous statement of

Punisher is Nightwing It really does take effect

because it's almost as if he has dual identities.

The guy, after he steps out of the diner to meet

Tubbs, he's wearing gold sunglasses and a white

t -shirt with a Hawkeye target on it that looks

just like the target. Well, it's meant to be

a Hawkeye shirt. I know, but I'm saying like...

You know if you want to be a little bit more

subtle and not so obvious You just have the target

painted not pink and purple and blue like the

colors of Hawkeye like what fraction is doing

in his It's meant to be my guess is they're trying

to push the the shirts that are made and sold

that we love fine I'm not joking. I'm serious.

I know you're not joking. Listen, I'm okay with

that and To sort of like go full circle here.

I really like that they actually that he's actually

depicting Punisher as a person again I actually

kind of like that. My problem is just He can

still be a person and have people recognize him

as the Punisher and It's clear to me that Sam

agrees with what Punisher is doing it would have

been okay if she was if she knew who he was Because

I have a feeling well, like I say it's made clear

she agrees with them. She even said in the first

issue I think we should pin a medal on them for

killing 30, you know drug dealers or drug makers

in this case story and she's You know, she's

fine with that. So I don't know It's just some

of the decisions in this book don't make sense

to me I guess and I don't think they're questions

that are gonna get answered and free and to your

point, I mean Hawkeye shirt doesn't make sense

to you. I don't really mind. I don't really care

It doesn't make sense to me. It just it's like

Really? They have to do that. It's kind of blatant

now having said that by the way I love the cover

of him in the I'm not daredevil shirt Incentive

cover from one I believe Oh, wow. Yeah, I really

liked that. That was cute. But yeah, anyway,

we get the sequence in the diner where he talks

to ding Bats McNo look And then he talks to tubs

about Hawkins some more stuff from the US military

that they could probably use What with all the

wars going on? so Man, I actually like this.

I don't mean to be this harsh anyway He has tubs

take care of his dog slash coyote and we get

more of Well, yeah, he calls him loot by the

way, that is the official name of the dog It

is not max or dog should have called him dog

The Punisher has always been filled with Mad

Max references, especially The 2004 movie with

Thomas Jane, which was just absolutely rife with

Mad Max references including The way his family

dies. So I don't know. They should have jammed

in another one here Whatever. Anyway, he has

tubs take care of his dog and we see tell her

coyote You see tubs may not be the sharpest tool

in the shed again And then we wander over to

L. Oh boy, L. Segundo I know French, I don't

know my Spanish. I don't know Mexican. Anyway.

Wow. The only reason why I knew how to say El

Segundo is I've played a lot of Grand Theft Auto.

And anyway, Sam is at a crime scene where surprisingly

her eyes are open, which is interesting because

apparently she goes through the rest of life

without that. So there's a shootout here. Yeah,

the cops get fried with electricity another hint

hint nudge nudge and everyone's down except lieutenant

no look pass and She is saved by the Punisher

So Ellen by the way, she doesn't recognize his

voice either. Let's throw that one out there

What it's true She's a police officer. I know

I know I've been robbed more than once like when

I worked Midnights, and I always identified the

guy like easily even with a gun in my face I

don't understand why apparently she can't identify

whatever Okay, so let me ask you this now that

I'm up to this page where she doesn't like that

She can't identify him and now he's he's chasing

Well, they're they're chasing the bad guys are

chasing him on his motorcycle. Well, have you

seen yeah? Have you seen the latest episodes

of the current Turtle series on Nickelodeon?

No, and this will be arresting because I bet

it has nothing to do with this issue. Well, it

does. It does. In that series, in Season 2, Casey

Jones was introduced. And he's this kid who,

along with a real hockey mask like Casey should

have, Also war paints his face like his hockey

mask and all as I can think of when I see Frank

in this this Burglar's mask with his skull on

his face is Casey Jones from the turtle series

Yeah, and a lot of people are the mask has been

something that a lot of people have talked about

Here's my question, I guess and this is another

question that thus far has been unanswered Why

does Frank have a mask? I mean, why does he need

one? What's the point of it? All this really

does is potentially limit his visibility and

mobility. There's no benefit to this. And I mean,

if you're going to write him as a military professional,

there's no real reason. I mean, there's no armor

on it, as we see. By the way, he should have

worn a helmet, not a mask, since he cracks his

skull against the pavement a couple of pages

later. That's something for Dane and Jake to

go off on, actually. Why does he wear this pointless

mask that doesn't protect him at all and actually

hinders him more than helps, instead of something

useful? That's something they better go off on,

or else I'm gonna have to make fun of them. I

might do that anyway. Yeah. I'm totally not doing

anything. Anyway. I know, right? He's chasing

the truck, and there's a truck chasing him. Yeah,

and yeah, he we get the cute grenade toss into

the back of the truck And yeah after that We

while he's about to stop the truck that was in

front of him We saw it. We segue back to the

police or rather Sam Who's there? It was just

yeah, just there. Yeah, she's being followed

or rather. They're all being followed by the

Halloween commandos Do like the design on the

howling commandos Again that that that eyepiece.

I think that's really cool Yeah, so yeah, we

get the howling commandos we get an ad for Ghost

Rider number one and x -men no more humans Ghost

Rider number one, by the way, like man, are they

pushing that it's in like every Punisher Issue

so far. I realize there's only been two but Really

pushing Ghost Rider apparently I guess they figure

that, well, if you're reading one anti -hero

from Marvel, you should read them all. Yeah,

that's true. I don't know why, then, they don't

have like 50 ads for Deadpool, by the way. Oh,

by the way, you really want to mess up a Deadpool

fan's day? Ask them to recommend a good Deadpool

story. There's a hint. There's none. Never has

a character been loved for doing absolutely nothing

more than Deadpool. Wow. I mean, he's so horribly

written 99 % of the time and yet for some reason

sells really well. It's kind of the... Well,

he is the backstreet boys of comics. There's

absolutely no quality or talent in it, but for

some reason everyone loves it. So, JT from Saskatoon

who suggested to me to attempt a Deadpool team

-up. Oh, really? Is not a good thing to do, huh?

I would say no. You're gonna be waiting for a

long time. He's had decent individual issues,

but there's no like trade. There's no welcome

back Frank or Dark Knight returns for Deadpool,

but man am I off topic. So pick up day later.

Yeah, yeah, day later. What do you think of Frank

having an iPhone? That's a good point. I didn't

notice that before. What's the merchandising

in this? He's got the, you know, Breaking Bad

-esque Winnebago, and then, you know, he's wearing

the Hawkeye shirt that may as well have Willow

Fine's logo on it, and now he's got an iPhone.

That's interesting. They should have a sequence

of him drinking a Pepsi in slow motion. Issue

three, ladies and gentlemen. Issue three. I don't

know if that's actually true or not, but I'm

guessing. So, we find out that the Big bad is

Electro. How shocking. I don't know what it is

about Mysterio and Electro. I just don't care

about either one. Now, I will ask you that -

Wolverine kill everybody. Yeah, ruining your

old man logo Logan show by the way anyway. Yes.

Yes, you are I'm actually going to bleep that

out. Thank you very much wait really Yeah, I

think everybody's read it by now or at least

I hope so anyway so whatever should be noted

by the way before we see electro that The howling

commandos have decided to follow agent Mcdumbass

Who has been tagged so you know he's gonna lead

him back to Frank because he is amongst the worst

the US military has to offer when he's not stealing

their shit apparently he's just wandering around

getting followed Is anyone who's supposed to

be a professional actually depicted well in these

books so far or is everyone just a complete idiot?

Everyone's pretty much a complete idiot. I know,

and that's why I have a problem with him talking

about how dangerous the Howling Commandos are.

Well, if your police can't do anything useful,

I mean, they are below Gotham City level here

in this depiction, and then your military guys

are A, you know, undermining the military, and

B, not paying attention to being followed. How

competent can the Commandos be? So whatever.

Then Frank and the Breaking Bad Winnebago get

flipped over, and yeah, it's Electro. Now, let

me ask you this. Do you think that this was planned

from when they started even talking about doing

this series with Edmondson and Gerrard's? Or

do you think they're throwing in Electro because,

hey, Amazing Spider -Man 2 is coming out? How

much am I allowed to say? Whatever, I'll just

go all in. For whatever reason, this was planned

a while ago. But having said that, Marvel has

known forever that Electro was going to be an

amazing Spider -Man 2. If you're asking me whether

there is an edict to put him in, I can't say

for sure. I haven't asked anyone. I've known

for a while Electro was going to be a villain

here, and I've asked repeatedly if Frank's going

to be allowed to kill him. The only answer I

got was, well, here's how the conversation went.

A group of other guys, quote, I think you're

going to be pretty shocked at who the villain

is. Me. So it's Electro, isn't it? Them. long

pause before somebody finally goes yeah me so

is he going to kill him them well he's got a

movie coming out me so that's a no long pause

and then somebody saying well I wouldn't say

that exactly so I don't know my guess is potentially

he kills him but either a Electro comes back

before too long or be it's a clone or robot or

something like that. I can't say for sure Now

let me ask you this. Do you think? Your own personal

opinion. Do you think that they will back door

Frank? for film Oh Not god you're worse than

Jake you take that back Do you think that they

will backdoor him into Amazing Spider -Man 2

with this storyline to just have him in there

as like one of the past or like one of the extras?

No and I mean well I mean first of all they can't

because Fox is Amazing Spider -Man 2 and they

don't have the rights to the punishment. The

other reason is Frank is destined for a Appearance

behind the or sorry in front of the cameras in

something else Marvel is doing oh Yes, all right,

and I've been plugging them about it forever,

so I'm sure you have all right, so that's Punisher

1 & 2 I can safely say for Punisher 2 I'll give

it a three out of five, which for the GCRN rating

system, which I will put in the show notes, is

barely passing. The character development, the

introduction of the characters in issue one was

great. The development from issue one to issue

two. It's just like oh my god. There's just like

yeah And I like Frank here. I think we're both

actually I think we're both actually on the same

page I kind of I don't mind the You know, I like

Frank. It's just the supporting cast It just

sucks the only the only and I can't believe I'm

saying this because I know you're gonna make

a pizza dog reference with one The only character

that I like more than Frank is the coyote Well,

I'm not necessarily supposed to like them more

than Frank, but anyway. Yeah, you know what I

mean. I know what you're saying, though. Other

than the supporting, out of the supporting cast,

the Coyote is the only good one. Yeah. So I don't

know. It's still solid. I mean, it's... Alright,

so a couple of notes. I agree with you on the

rating, by the way. I would also say three out

of five, despite my ranting. I mean, I'm curious

where this goes with... Trade inevitably. I mean

this is gonna be a six -issue sort of storyline

and I'm curious to see where it ends up but It's

man like I've been really disappointed with a

lot of the Punisher reviewers out there It's

people talking about this is one of my favorite

runs. It's been two issues We've seen like 20

pages of it It's a little early to call it in

terms of this is the best or worst run ever same

thing to the people that say, you know, it's

The it's not good or anything. I mean give it

some time I'll say this though and I went back

and I reread issues one two and then about two

days later I reread issue three of Greg Ruckos

run Ruckos run really really works better Even

on individual issues than Edmondson so far By

the end of issue one with Rucka's run, we had

two shootouts, although one of them was in the

past, and it was explaining Bolt's backstory,

meeting the Punisher and the whole school shooting

sort of thing involved with his backstory. But

I mean, in those first couple issues, we met

Ozzy and Bolt, and they were actually depicted

as fairly competent police officers. We met Nora.

Winters who would be one of our sort of gateways

following Frank for the series and Then in issue

two we had another shootout and we met the exchange

who were gonna be our you know Big bad guy for

the rest of the Punisher run It's weird how much

more rucka managed to do in two issues that Edmondson's

been able to and obviously That's not necessarily

good thing But on the other hand, I mean, like

I said, we'll see where it ends up in terms of

pacing. And it's weird all the other similarities,

too, though, that there are between them, i .e.

at the end of issue two in Rukka's series, we

met the Vulture. And issue three featured, in

my opinion, one of the better fights in the 616

universe Frank has ever had, where he kills the

Vulture. At the end of issue two of the Edmondson

run, he meets Electro. Now, we'll see if we get

a good knockdown drag out with him at the end

of this one. But I mean, my other issue, I guess,

is Rucka was able to put his own spin on the

character and make him his own. And he did it

without sort of taking anything away from him.

Edmondson's taken a couple of things away from

him. He now Apparently has a You know alias or

rather he's not the Punisher during the day Yeah,

and so I Don't know it's it just seems a little

odd to me that they've taken away one of the

things that differentiated him and one of my

problems with these first two issues so far is

just that he There's nothing distinguishing frank

from any other superhero and so You know, what's

kind of the point? I mean, there's nothing to

this run at least so far into and granted again,

you know, it's only been two issues but It's

just they feel really empty for some reason they

do and I can safely say that I'm going to Probably

be waiting for the trade for the rest of it Don't

think I'm gonna get issue three. Yeah, it's not

that I dislike the series It's just it's just

one of those things where I like the issues But

as I'm reading them, it's like really and that

bugs me because as a fan and as somebody that

I like Edmondson and I like like his I like his

other work And I want to be able to convince

you to buy the rest of the series but I don't

know how to with this and it's His I'm losing

my train of thought completely. No, I mean, I

mean how you know, you're not the first person

I've heard say that and there's a lot of people

on a lot of different boards and reviews that

have said the same thing that there's just there's

not much to it and It's weird and I hate to compare

it to this because Thunderbolts has been absolute

garbage and if for some reason you're still buying

that and you're a Punisher fan you're a terrible

human being because you're You're actually hurting

the character by keeping that going. Please stop

And I'm not joking by the way the the internal

stuff on Thunderbolts is hilarious to read The

reason why I'm not probably gonna pick it up

maybe past issue 3 I might pick it up issue 3

and issue 4 but outside of that I would rather

us come down, you know, like you said, if it's

going to be a six issue miniseries or whatever

it's supposed to be. I would rather come back

to it in a trade form and read the story as a

whole than having to wait. I do enough waiting

with GC and IGW. I don't need to do more waiting

with Marvel. That's why with the current Marvel

Now titles coming up later this year and next

year in the pull bag, I'm going to be getting

trades. from like iron man and wolverine in the

x -men and stuff like that so there will be more

marvel it's funny before the show we talked about

wolverine in the x -men and it's and ruckus ron

again are other examples of uh... stuff that

reads better in trade erin writes really well

in terms of his trade stuff and that seems to

be the way comics are going And I'm okay with

that because personally, I love having trades.

I now have three bookshelves of them. Man, I

hope my family didn't hear that. But anyway,

I have multiple bookshelves of trades now, just

lining everything. My Punisher collection, by

the way, is now two full shelves of them. And

that's not counting the essentials and everything.

And by the way, I don't buy any hard covers.

All my stuff is soft cover. But yeah, I mean,

it seems to be the way comics are going. Part

of that's because for the smaller companies,

like Image, IDW, they've learned that the money

is in trades. If you can sell a decent number

of individual issues, that's good, but a lot

of them, Image in particular, deliberately writes

for trades, and Ruck is perfect for them. I think

that's one of the reasons Lazarus has taken off.

Boy, do I hope that's Image, or else I look really

stupid. Followed a little dark horse does the

same thing. So Yeah, I mean it's just one of

those things where I'm The pull bags coverage

is going to severely change after April You won't

be covering anything Funny that would be a change.

It's shut up It's going, we're going to end up

going more towards story arcs where, you know,

like what I did with Spada with the Amazing Spider

-Man final issues, like what JT and I have been

doing with Superior Spider -Man. I'm going to

get a bunch of issues together and talk about

that, you know, say we got six issues of Batgirl

that have a whole story arc in them. We'll do

it as a story arc versus... You know an individual

month being Detective Batman. Well, Nightwing's

cancelled Randy's, you know, so shut up Although

yeah, although unfortunately the way things are

going with this series Let's say the bottom let's

just say the behind -the -scenes stuff's not

good so far So, you know, it's just one of those

things where it just I don't know it I'll say

this. It's not that I don't like the first two

issues. There are certain things that I don't

like about them, but I like kind of where it's

going. I'm kind of disappointed that Electro

is the villain, and I think on my personal opinion

they did that just because he's the villain in

Amazing Spider -Man 2. I don't see a lengthy

storyline. with the Punisher versus Electro.

I just don't see that. No, and I mean, my hope

anyway is that basically he offs him in the next

issue, and I would be OK with that. My fear is

they won't, although I don't know that Marvel

cares that much about Fox, although they do care

about their own sales. So who knows? Yeah. But

yeah, I mean, ideally, I'd like to see almost

the same situation as with Rukka's run, where

he offs him. That's it for them for him. But

having said that the fact that I'm saying that

gee I hope this goes pretty much the same as

ruckus run because all this stuff happened at

the exact same time as his run That's also not

good. It's kind of a sign that Edmondson's put

his spin on Frank, but he hasn't written a story

That's really wowed me or anything different

from what we've seen and that's another kind

of issue I like where he's potentially going

with this But he needs to differentiate himself

pretty quick because if he keeps this up and

he keeps trying to just do Rukka's run, he's

going to lose out because it's really hard to

be better than him. Yeah. And you are correct

in saying that Lazarus's image. I just found

it. So I wasn't completely wrong for once. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I We will come back to this and trade

most likely. Yeah kids. I just I just don't think

I can can handle trying to get into all new characters

because You know his supporting cast here is

all new characters granted electros, you know

Sure, you throw a dime in New York City. You'll

hit a spider -man villain You know, and it's

just one of those things where I Just have too

much other stuff in comics that I've got going

on right now. We've got the Batman 75th anniversary

stuff coming up We've got everything else. I

realize like for you you're going through a lot

of older stuff as well, too at this same time

alternatively, I just had this discussion at

my Comic book shop. There's a lot of really good

comics ongoing right now I mean for people who

just want to read good stories and that kind

of thing versus I know that you read a lot of

the older stuff or you work on a particular character

for podcasting purposes but I'm just saying let's

say you are the average comic book consumer there's

a lot of really good books and authors out there

right now and that's China what I'm getting at

with some of my issues with this series is that

he doesn't have long to wow people and nobody

does and I mean part of the reason why Thunderbolts

has Had abysmal sales is the first issue was

solid and I think people enjoyed that but then

after that there just hasn't been anything to

make it a particularly good or be Make it worth

buying against a bajillion other much better

titles right and that's you know and and that's

just if you were just buying superhero comics

there's a lot of good ones going on right now

if you go outside of that into the independence

and start buying stuff like fatale or Lazarus

or whatever there's a ton of those two even the

transformer series have been written at a ridiculously

high level which is surprising to me well here's

the thing I'm the changes that are coming up

in the poll bag is I'm not stopping superhero

coverage but it's going to, like I said, change

and it's gonna be a little bit less because I'm

getting into all these other titles from IDW,

the Transformers stuff what else have they got

coming out? I assume it's an ongoing for the

for 24 which is in a TV series coming up or a

continuation of the old TV series coming up and

it just I want to find stuff that it's either

franchise based or character based that really

interests me and I'm not opposed to like I said

I plan on picking up Iron Man trade paperback

number one and two I plan on picking up Wolverine

and the X -Men it's just I have to find the time

to get to them, is the whole thing. Where can

the people interact with you online if they would

like to? Don't. Piece of hermit, ladies and gentlemen.

It's the Canadian version of Obi -Wan Kenobi.

I wish there were some sand people around here.

Everything's I know No, I mean on Twitter I think

most of the people you can find me on the Punisher

body count page for example on Facebook My Twitter

handles at night beat who by the way returned

to all of the transformer comics in the same

month How about that? Must have loved that. Yeah,

I was surprised and then one of my other favorite

characters Fort Max returned to He had always

been around in the IDW series, but they resurrected

him in regeneration one Yeah, which was surprising

and cool. Although it's weird because both night

beat and Fort Max come back and they're both

initially evil Just like you. Well, Nightbeat

broke his programming, but Max beat the shit

out of Optimus Prime. Alright, well, we hope

you continue listening to Marvelous March. Up

next is going to be JT and I covering Spider

-Man Blue and Return of the Black Cat. Make your

great escape into comics and we will catch you

next time. Hey, Keycast listeners, do you ever

listen to Punisher Body Count and think to yourself?

This show would be awesome if it had less toilet

humor and was not about the Punisher. If so,

join me, Emily Williams, as I class up the Punisher

guys on Dane and Jake at Classy. We're like the

Oprah Book Club of comics. You'll hear us discuss

famous works like The Dark Knight Returns and

The Grove, along with graphic novels no one else

is talking about, like Blue Monday and Blankets.

You can find us at daneandjakeatclassy .wordpress

.com or on iTunes. You've just heard the latest

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