Scott Snyder’s Death of the Family (Batman #17) Discussion

Welcome to The Pole Bag. Join us as we dig out

our latest comics and discuss them with a rotating

panel of the JCRN crew. So sit back and enjoy

this week's Pole Bag. Hello and welcome to The

Pole Bag. This is episode 78. This is the final

episode in the 13 episode podcast long. Batman

month here inside the pullback celebrating 75

years of Batman. I am of course your host if

you Mike joining me is Steve Megatron. Hello

Hello And also joining us is Jeremy fine. Hello.

It was sure nice for Joker to send me those open

-face sandwiches. Hmm Those sound like they're

a little too fleshy Well, they were made of holly.

Okay, we're starting this off on a good note.

Alright, so we are here to talk about the quote

-unquote epic Death of the Family storyline by

Scott Snyder and Greg Capolo. Ran from Batman

issue 13 to 17 in the new 52 storyline. It also

had crossovers with Batgirl, Nightwing, Red Hood,

I don't know if it crossed over with Teen Titans,

or I don't remember. It slightly did that, and

Batman and Robin. Batman and Robin, right. But

we are just specifically talking about what happened

in the issues from 13 to 17. Now I did get the

hardcover this past Christmas. the hardcover

does some and I'm sure the trade will do this

too but the hardcover and trade will probably

do something that I think Steve and I can agree

it would be a much better way of doing placing

the backup stories in because when we read or

when I read Batman and I get to the backup story

I'm like oh okay well that's the end of that

issue It's not that I have anything against Backup

stories, but the way they're done in the single

issues It just it feels like a disconnect and

when I read because I actually reread through

the death of the family hardcover before we did

this episode and The backup stories with Joker

and penguin and Joker penguin and two -faced

they felt more Fluid with the issues as one whole

solid thing What else? Jeremy, what were your

initial opinions of Death of the Family? Between

this and Dark Knight Returns, I thought that

Batman literature couldn't get any better. And

I have to admit, I didn't know where this was

gonna go. This was definitely, this is probably

the sickest we've seen Joker. Don't know how

he can top himself for me. He always comes off

as this showman like how is he gonna top his

next performance? Mm -hmm and You know he he's

definitely has to have followers and groupies

and imitators I Thought finally we were gonna

get who he really was Mm -hmm, and I think what

I'm the most disappointed is that once again.

It's another kick in the teeth Yeah, kind of

it is. Now, I think I already said this, but

I could be wrong. Steve and I have already covered

this review style before the pull bag even started.

Actually, it was because of us covering 13 through

17 of Batman that the pull bag even became a

podcast on the Geekcast Radio Network. So, we're

just going to do this discussion style. go through

the trade and pick out certain images and stuff

like that. But we're not going to be doing what

we've done so far in the Batman month where we

go through almost every page of the trade and

review it because we've already done that. Steve,

you're the Joker fanboy here. What was your reaction

when you first heard about the news about this

and your reaction to the overall story in general?

Well, I Like I said before in Geekcast radio,

I originally got this One I'd started going back

into comics around this time It was actually

before this that I kind of jumped back in because

I was like, you know what? I'm really looking

forward to seeing what they're doing in the new

52. So I I went back in probably around issue

10 Batman so I was already collecting by that

point but then we were also doing our our Batman

month mmm and so what I did is I kind of take

to DC Comics and that happened to be one of the

comics that they sent me and I was quite pleased

when I read it it it with the initial first issue

it was leading up towards something that could

be epic and As the story progressed yeah, there

was a lot of dialogue and yeah There was a lot

of stuff going back and forth between all the

different You know Catwoman Batgirl Nightwing

Batman and Robin Teen Titans because Joker was

affecting the entire bat family so it Mean I

it's neither here nor there on that end because

it was showing what Joker was doing in the interim

of antagonizing Batman, but As the story progressed

it was leading up towards this big big big Event

and then at the very end it fizzled out Yeah

kind of did For me, you know Hey, you know, I've

said this many times on this podcast and on other

TCR and podcasts that we do I've never like I've

known about comics. I respect comics, but I didn't

grow up reading them I read a spider -man comic

every now and then in the 90s simply because

of the animated series at the time and I do remember

when I was 8 or 9 so somewhere around 88 or 89

my mom got me some really big thick trade paperback

of a Batman story but I have no idea what it

was but I mean it was it had to have been at

least 200 maybe 300 and some pages I have no

idea what it was though no clue I cannot remember

that at all I just remember her getting it for

him for me from somewhere so when you know I

mean over the last six years Steve and I have

become really good friends and everything else

and starting the network and all this and all

that history so I know Steve and I know what

somewhat unhealthy obsession he has with the

Joker and when i read his written review on getcastradio

.com i was like okay i'll give this a try and

i started getting i was originally only going

to get 13 through 17 and then in the last two

years my comic reading has exploded um i read

almost Not every single comic from every single

company, but I've found stuff here and there

that franchises that I like are characters that

I like, and I go about it that way. With Death

of the Family, I was like, okay, I'll give it

a shot, and I gave it a shot, and I didn't really,

like, see, I thought, at the end of 13... Joker

did something a little bit more brutal to Harley

than what he actually did and I didn't catch

what he actually did until I went back and looked

at it again today before we recorded this because

I thought he cut her or he did something to her

to make it go blood red and then I realized oh

wait he just put the hood on her head oh boy

so Alright, we are going to take one quick break

and we're going to come back with the rest of

the discussion after the Joker tells us about

this. I'll begin with how I peeled back the layers

of the boy's mind. Though he bravely tried to

fight it at first. You would have been proud

to see him so strong. But all too soon, the serums

and the shocks took their toll. And the dear

lad began to share such secrets with me. Secrets

that are mine alone to know. Guess who's back?

For one year Gotham City has been free since

the Joker limped off the streets of Gotham Mutilated

and scarred after a madman carved the pale white

skin right off his face for one year Batman and

his allies have waited Watchful and uneasy, wondering

when he would return, the Joker is back and he

has transformed into something more deadly and

insidious than ever before. For once, the Dark

Knight doesn't seem to be his target. Instead,

the Joker turns his violent me towards Commissioner

Gordon, Alfred Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Red

Hood, and Red Robin, the only family Bruce Wayne

has left. The Clown Prince of Crime will unleash

his most unpredictable, vicious, and psychotic

assault on everyone Batman holds dear. Can Batman

stop his arch -rivals most deranged assault ever?

Or will the revelation and the deadly secret

cost him everything he's built? That is the copy.

from the slipcase cover for the hardcover of

this book for the trade. The hardcover trade

is something to behold people because the dust

jacket on it is the Joker's face that got ripped

off. And then underneath it on the actual book

is what is underneath his face being ripped off

and on the back is just Batman's face. um but

i i had to get this because i i wanted to know

i thought i saw scott snider tweet about something

that he wanted to be able to describe more in

detail what the joker was doing once the trade

came out so people would kind of get the message

a little bit more and i was really excited to

see that and to To see if I was gonna like this

story more. I like the beginning of it. I think

that's really cool The middle as he's what I

loved about the storyline is some of the crossovers

like when he appears in Batgirl and When he appears

in Nightwing and what he does to them Because

it's just sick and twisted and all kinds of wrong

on both occasions And what is interesting to

me is how they did the build -up for this because

Well, not the how they did the build -up for

the finale because the build -up for the finale

is interesting you have to read All of the other

issue 16s before you this is just how I see it

You have to read all like Nightwing Batgirl Red

Hood and the Outlaws 16 before you read Batman

16 and then on the finale you read the finale

and then you read the other 17's after you read

Batman 17. So that was interesting to me how

they set that up with the Joker collecting the

entire Bat family and then having the finale

in 17. The story overall, I like it. I understand

what Snyder was going for, that Joker feels that

all these sidekicks that Batman has are basically

destroying what the Joker knew the great Batman

to be. But I was more than creeped out half the

time reading this story. The whole my king thing

oh that that didn't just creep me out that almost

pissed me off That was a little too strange for

my tastes. It was a little too strange for my

taste of the Joker Steve thoughts um I was fine

with the Joker being a creep it it just kind

of worked The only thing I Have to say about

it is the fact that The Joker just kind of it.

I don't know I liked the portrayal I Again, I

I get why they went with the no -face thing.

It was a continuation of Detective Comics number

one Mm -hmm where he had the puppet master cut

his face off to get it get out of Arkham mm -hmm

but The fact that he's still you know he goes

back to The GCPD to collect it and put it back

on when it's all rotted and his face should still

be kind of rotted Instead of what you see, which

is the bloody underneath Which is supposed to

be a while later, but it's supposed to be a year

after he had his face cut off Mm -hmm. So one

the the the skin shouldn't really be I mean,

I know it was barely there anyway But and it's

washed up and become Joker's daughters face now,

but I don't know. I kind of wish they would have

went a different route, but I understand they're

trying to break the mold of what they did with

the Joker here. What about you, Jeremy? What

are your overall thoughts on the story overall

here, as far as what the Joker was doing, as

far as all that good stuff? Well, first of all,

with the whole thing with the face being cut

off, I thought that it was supposed to be symbolic

that he is wearing a mask and he's masking himself

and we're finally going to see his true form.

That was the whole point. And then, of course,

he's just wearing it like a costume. And I have

to admit that there were times that were really

screwed up where he's, you know, taken in, he's

reverse it, where he's, you know, talking through

his. his teeth where it's coming out through

the eye holes it's just like a costume to him

and then he keeps trying to i don't know if he's

trying to staple it on or using um you know uh

belt buckles or velcro or whatever but i thought

once again there'd be some sort of symbolism

on the whole issue of masking because an ultra

off to batman 89 where he said the batman I've

taken off my makeup, why don't you take off yours?

And I thought that's how he was gonna take off

his mask. But unfortunately, and then of course,

when it came to this story, I ended up just downloading

the digital hardcover only because I found out

that in September, there's gonna be this huge,

not only will be the book, but also the Joker

face mask where, you know, this seems to be the

most cosplayed costume next to Dark Knight Returns

where the Batarang is in his eye. So I do have

to admit there were two I like with Harley Quinn

where she's starting to toughen up and become

her own person now. But I also love the thing

with Catwoman because there is a question of

who really loves Batman the most and why. And

she just finds him to be a boy toy. And now I'm

thinking to myself, well is joker admitting that

he's in love with batman and i'm thinking because

why is he trying to take away all that he holds

dear why is he trying to take away his so -called

family so it's either a bromance or joker does

in fact like lollipops so to speak it's hard

to say but i could also go back to the dark night

where joker goes you complete me so i'm not quite

sure what the whole cyclone you know I think

the psychology of it is that he wants the Batman

that he knew, the Batman without sidekicks, the

Batman without a support system, the Batman who

was dark, brooding, and just consistently vengeful

against crime. The Joker in this seems to see

the entire Bat family, even Alfred, as a crutch

for Batman. That's the way I got it my my biggest

complaint about the story is They don't act I

get the metaphor he's supposed to be killing

the entire family and basically making them not

Talk to each other after this event that doesn't

happen. They still talk to each other after the

damn event happened The whole thing with me is

if you're gonna title your story a death in the

family or a or death of the family Somebody's

got a friggin die And of course me and my and

actually this story was the story that made me

loathe Damien Wayne Issue 15 I, every time he

opened his mouth, like, you know, basically mouthing

off to him and the rivalry between him and Tim

Draker, him and the rivalry between him and Jason

Todd, just like, oh God, kid, shut up. And the

fact that, oh hey, Bruce and Talia had a kid.

He's technically Ra's Al Ghul's grandson, so

he could either, you know. go batman's route

or go evil and go rage's route it's like oh god

why leave that up to chance just kill him and

leave him dead which they did of course they're

probably not gonna leave him dead sadly considering

they have that new animated film out with him

so i got the message from the story but i this

just doesn't seem like a joker tale that I don't

know. Maybe it's because I didn't read that first

part of Detective at the time, but this just

doesn't seem like a fit, especially the ending.

The ending confused the crap out of me. I get

it that the ha is the elemental symbol of what

Bruce found in the toxin or whatever else, but

like... what else is that supposed to signify

is that supposed to signify obviously the joker

is going to come back at some point because let's

face it i mean batman without the joker is like

superman without kryptonite but my biggest problem

was the end the other thing that confused me

about the end is what is the deal with the last

page and i asked you this when we were reviewing

it steve what is the deal with the last page

and the fly On the computer screen. I just don't

get that The fly was just showing the decay because

if you look it's constantly floating around Joker's

face throughout the issues Okay, and then the

fact that the ha is like the symbolic chemical

like periodic table symbol for the chemicals

that Joker used and kind of put in all their

DNA. And so when it reads out, it goes ha ha

ha ha ha. But I think the fly was just a symbolic

thing that, you know, it's it's got some of the

DNA type stuff, but it's also the fact that his,

you know, his face is More or less ruined and

he Ruined himself to basically kind of show that

he needed to ruin the bat family in order to

make Batman better Mm -hmm Because he had so

many crutches Yeah, so it's it's you know, it's

it's showing that Yeah Overall, I'm glad that

this was my introduction to the series, but I

still think that Court of Owls was much better

I don't know where they I don't know like if

Snyder ever brings him back. I don't know what

he could do And honestly, this was the one time

I know I get it listeners everybody else I get

it Batman doesn't kill But this is the one time

I was really hoping he would have killed the

Joker. There have been several times that we

hope that Batman's gonna kill the Joker, and

this is something that I've been wanting to bring

up for the longest time, is that Batman keeps

telling himself that as long as I let Joker live,

I can keep my sanity. And everybody seems to

agree with Batman that Batman's gotta bring Joker

in by the book. But over the years... Whatever

the media is whether it's comics or TV or movies

Joker has transitioned from a prankster to a

homicidal maniac to I'll say it a terrorist and

I feel that if you put him next to a Middle Eastern

terrorist and and you know, one of our boys shoots

him down He's not gonna come home and say well

I shot him now what's gonna stop me from shooting?

No, I don't think it's gonna go that way. I mean

I could once again, there's so many ways I can

trail off and Debate other arguments where Batman

says well if I killed Joker what's to stop me

from killing penguin or two -faced but Penguin

we know what his deal is in two -face Well, he's

got to flip that coin before he does something

drastic and writ where you know, we can go on

and on Joker we know nothing about so if we had

to put him down and Realistically if we put him

in a real -life Arkham asylum He either would

be so set up on medication, he wouldn't know

what day of the week it is, or he'd probably

be lobotomized. Here, it's like he's able to

just walk in, threaten the psychiatrist, threaten

a judge or whatever, and walk out. You know what?

No. Unless he has a fan base, but at this point,

I'll say it right now. It's gonna save him for

the end. It's not funny anymore. You know...

I really think for me and my liking of the character

of the Joker, I've liked some of the other animated

interpretations of him, like John DiMaggio in

Under the Red Hood, that was interesting. I have

yet to hear Troy Baker as the Joker, but it's

always gonna boil down to Hamill. It really,

really is. And it's just one of those things

where since he's said that he's retired from

the... He has said, I've heard him say this,

the only thing he'll come out of retirement for

is if they ever do an animated version of the

killing joke. And I just couldn't even hear his

voice in my head when reading this story. I don't

know what kind of joker Scott Snyder was trying

to set up here. I think I do I think if you I

guess you haven't seen Dark Knight Returns the

animated movie yet, but Part one not part two.

Okay. Well Emerson who voiced Joker? Mm -hmm.

He he got it then on he did because here's the

thing with John DiMaggio It almost sounds like

from Vinucci's pizza from Futurama, you know,

it's like bats You know throw a batarang at me

come on, but Emerson seems to have this tone

like he doesn't yell or scream He just like keeps

it at one level and it almost sounds like We're

getting to the end art like like he's almost

trying to copy and emulate Batman and I think

that's what he's trying to do because I Well,

you know and I mean I thought at one point he

was gonna try to follow Batman or emulate Batman

But as for voices go I don't know if Hamill,

and I love him to death, I don't know if Hamill

would want to come out of retirement to do this

Joker. This seems like - No, not this one. Killing

Joke. Oh, Killing Joke, yeah. But I'm saying

if you could some way bring Hamill out. But maybe

if Heath Ledger was still alive he could voice

this one. But I don't know where you're gonna

be able to go or who's gonna be able to pull

this one off. Yeah. I don't know either. The

ending to this, even reading the other issues

to see how it has affected the other characters,

it just is so sadly anti -climactic. It really,

really is. When I went back and read the hardcover,

I was... okay I'm excited I'm excited I'm exciting

okay here's issue 15 where I know Damien's gonna

talk out his ass as usual so I don't care about

that but then we went into issue 16 and 17 and

I was excited excited excited and then we get

to the page where Batman has Joker on the little

cliff in the cave or whatever wherever the hell

it is and and uh Basically lets him fall and

but nothing really like he doesn't actually kill

the guy and that was the other thing that kind

of That this whole thing with Bruce and not telling

the family whether Joker got into the cave in

that initial story Whether he's been there before

or whether he knows the secret because it felt

to me like It felt to me Snyder was going back

to his court of owls story in the beginning where

Bruce didn't believe in the court of owls whatsoever

at all and the whole keeping the secret from

the family whether Joker get in or not it's like

They have or they said it they have a right to

know and they do And the fact that he has all

of the I mean I know he's always gonna have all

of their DNA on file But if Joker was able to

hack any of that well boom there you go I mean,

that's just like in you know forever evil if

if people can find out who Nightwing is Well,

of course, they're gonna know Batman is Steve

any any other thoughts for death of them? I really

don't know how much further we can take this

guy's unless we start going page by page because

it just I I just not up on this story is as I

was initially While I do enjoy the story and

while it had sparked my interest back into DC

Comics and helped spark other people to coming

to DC Comics for the fact that the Joker returned,

and while I applaud them for not going back to

the same can of tricks and bringing the Joker

back so soon, Adding the man bat as a replacement

or having Year one And the death of Damien also

quickly packed right afterward don't entice me

as well as The fact that like I understand, you

know, you're never supposed to know if the Joker

survived or not but I I guess I Wish that something

else had happened during this like if they were

gonna kill Damian Maybe had this is the way out

or something or have him kill Red Hood or kill,

you know somebody do something Where he forces

Bruce's hand to have to pick between his children.

Mm -hmm essentially That would have been yeah,

it would have been the douchebag ish Move to

do but it would have more or less shown What

You know shown something that Joker forced his

hand You know or he could have you know Joker

could have done the one thing that would have

made them all unite together and kill Alfred

If he killed Alfred that would really get the

bat family on the same page well see they hinted

at killing the killing Alfred or killing Gordon

or killing Catwoman And then they killed Damian.

I mean granted And I'm not gonna go into detail

but Because this wasn't a true split from the

pre -new 52 mmm There's a lot of things that

continuity wise were screwed up that Didn't quite

mesh with this universe or this Joker Yeah So

I mean it's it there's there's a lot of mess

with the DC comics and I think that this was

the last time that at least something made somewhat

of sense Because after that they've gone into

you know, the death of Damien or year zero or

The future's end or you know the forever evil

or you know all these different little crazy

cross crosses between other lines and It's it's

getting so convoluted and hard to follow since

that time that I think death of the family like

after issues 17 Mm -hmm. I think it it it took

a nosedive Yeah, because you have court of you

have the the court of owls and you know city

of owls and then you have a one issue break between

city and death of the family mm -hmm that it's

it's I Don't think it's gotten better since I

think it's progressively gotten worse since that

last issue fizzled out Yeah Yeah, we will cover

futures end in June at least the first four issue

I'm only interested in that to see how they what

origin they give Terry McGinnis and bringing

Batman Beyond into the into the new 52 I'm not

totally thrilled with that at all I think they

just need to leave him in the animated universe

and not worry about it, but I'm slightly interested.

I'll say this, you know, when we're at the beginning

of Batman Month here, when we've reviewed the

first four issues of Batman Eternal, Batman Eternal,

Snyder is doing so much of a better job of enticing

me to read his stuff in that than he is here.

Because after you know, like you said Steve after

death of the family the clay face story was interesting

and cool in issues 19 and 20 and then Zero year

started and there are exactly Three three issues

of zero year that I absolutely love 21 24 and

30 Hmm, it just isn't It's not the like the Batman

that I want is what Kyle is doing over in bat

beyond That's honestly the I know it's not Bruce

in the suit, but it's you know, Bruce is still

around It's the animated universe stuff. I'm

just so down on the other than eternal eternal.

I really do love I've read the first Well, we've

covered the first four issues And I'm really

digging that, but the current mainline Batman,

something's gotta happen. Something big that

isn't a damn origin story. Jeremy, any other

thoughts you want to bring up? Well, here's the

thing, because when it comes to Batman comics,

I'm simple. I care about character development.

And I have to say that it's been a real long

time since I really wanted to pick up a Batman

comic. I do think that if it weren't for me watching

reruns of Batman 66, I wouldn't care about Batman,

period. And I feel that people over the years

watched that and tried to take stories from there

and try to make them stronger and tighter, which

they've had. But the problem is, is that when

you keep depending on Joker, he the big bad and

then well then if you try to bring in Clayface

or or ventriloquist or anyone else Nobody's gonna

care and I think that's a mistake but I will

say this if this is finally, you know the grand

finale and as I said since I had downloaded the

digital comic I do kind of like the epilogue

where Batman kind of considers Joker as Moby

Dick the great white whale but Out of all the

solid graphic novels of Batman in this order,

it's Dark Knight Returns, Killing Joke, and definitely

this one. But, you know, from what I've heard

from you guys, I don't know what other... I do

want to read Quarter Vowels. Quarter Vowels you've

been talking about a lot, so I definitely want

to pick that one up. But after that, I don't

know where else... I want to go because it does

get a little clustered. I will say most definitely

check out Batman Eternal at least the first four

issues. If past the first four you don't care

for it, then you don't have to continue it. But

so far the first four issues have really been

solid. If you're not that into Just Bruce Wayne

is Batman definitely check out the 2012 to now

Batman Beyond stuff. That is awesome Other than

that, I either got Batgirl or Nick Fury. Oh,

I'm sorry. Dick Grayson is Nick Fury That's something

for another time. I would like to pick up though

or at least if Harley Quinn has no longer become

like You know, the Harley Quinn from DCAU from

the 90s. And when I'm reading what she's doing

now, I would like to pick up Harley Quinn comics

if she's joined the Suicide Squad. I don't know

what's going on, but she does have her own. She

does have her own ongoing right now. But I've

only read the issue zero and I couldn't read

past that. It was it was an homage to all it.

They had like, what was it, Steve, 20 something

artists on there. some like that they had like

20 to 50 different artists on the issue zero

for Harley Quinn's new series and it was all

different art styles homaging how she's looked

over the last However many years she's been around

You know 20 21 22 years because technically Dini

created her So But past that I don't I don't

know if you'd like it or not. I'm not sure because

I haven't I haven't even read it I will say that

even though we're not doing single issue coverage

anymore, I am still reading Zero Year since it's

in its final phases. And issue 30 was better

than some of the other ones. I'm just waiting

to see what the next storyline in the main line

is going to be because... honestly anything except

court of owls it's just it had like I said at

the beginning of this show it the beginning of

death of the family grabbed me it grabbed me

and it was like you better hold on to the edge

of your seat or else but as it went along I honestly

think the killing joke is much better Really

really the the ending to the killing joke was

more emotional more evisceral and this you know

as I said before and His Joker said in Batman

Beyond It's sadly anti -climactic Yep, yep. All

right. We're gonna take a quick ad break come

back after this and close out the show that has

such patsas in it. You know kids, a lot has changed

while your old uncle Joker's been away. New Gotham,

new rules, even a new Batman. It isn't 65 years

in the future, but Legends of the Dark Knight

has gone beyond. Batman beyond, that is. Ah,

the new boy. The ears are too long and I missed

the cape, but not too shabby, not too shabby

at all. Join Steve and Mike as they delve into

the remaining episodes of the podcast where they'll

cover Batman Beyond, products, games and more.

Check it out only on keycastradio .com. All right,

we are back here in the final episode of the

Batman 75th Anniversary Spotlight Special here

in the Pole Bag and I know this is kind of a

short show, but I I've read the death of the

family storyline twice now and I've read it in

single issues and in the hardcover trade and

I thought reading it in trade it would affect

me more it would change my mind and honestly

it it doesn't Based on the GCRN universal rating

system, I am going to give this a three stars

out of five which equals barely passing. Now

let me read what this means. Barely passing.

While the overall takeaway was positive, you

do not necessarily walk away happy. It does not

extraordinarily succeed in any specific areas

or if it does it gets weighed down by something

as equally as unsuccessful. The overall enjoyable

is usually disposable. I just... I wanted more.

I really did. Like Steve said earlier, I wanted

something different to happen. Whether that was

gonna be him, Joker killing Damian, or... I mean,

kill somebody for Christ's sake. I mean, come

on. Even if you just kill off Bullock for crap's

sake, kill somebody. Steve, what are you gonna

rate this one? I would have rated it at a 3 .5.

Okay. Just because it's like I said the issues

with What happened and I overall liked it, but

there were other underlying issues Mm -hmm What

about you Jeremy I'm actually giving this one

a four and a half and I and I was on the fence,

but the reason why I'll give it credit where

creditors do is after reading the epilogue, I

thought this was just them having nightmares,

but it happened and Joker came very close and

asked for him killing somebody. I mean, I've

heard rumors that Alfred was going to be killed,

but it didn't happen. I do appreciate what Joker's

trying to do to step up the ante. The only thing

is, as for anticlimactic, I think the biggest,

two kicks in the teeth also is when the gas goes

off and the bat family starts going after each

other in the cave. And I was like, okay, we're

back to basics. But you know what? As I said

before, it's my number three for, you know, interesting

bat literature. Yeah, I don't know. Just don't

know all right folks. I know it's been a hellacious

month here in May 13 podcasts in one month. I

will not be doing that again. I promise But it

was Batman 75th over you know after all and had

to celebrate it somehow You know, we've seen

coverage from Batman Eternal, from Batman 66,

the ongoing comic by Jeff Parker, but where the

Batman, Court of Owls, City of Owls, Death of

the Family, The Killing Joke, Dark Knight Returns,

we've seen Batman Year One. I will tell you right

now, coming up in the first week of June... We

will kind of be continuing the Bat coverage,

but not really. We are going to be doing a back

-issue classics for Batgirl Volume 1 from the

New 52, and I believe it's still on track to

have the incredible Dr. Andrea Letamendi join

me. I'm not sure if Brian Ward is going to join

me or not, but Dr. Letamendi, she is... She got

turned into Batgirl's psychologist in the new

52, which is really cool, so I thought it was

only fitting to have her review those stories

with me. Steve, where can the people find you

online? On Twitter at SCP -21. Jeremy, what about

you? Twitter at Hunnic Outskirt. Alright, that's

gonna do it for this episode of The Pull Bag.

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