75 Years of Batman in Comics, Television, Film, and Animation

Hi, this is Lauren Lester, and you're listening

to the Geekcast Radio Network. This is Kevin

Conway, and I am the Goddamn Batman. It's been

five years, and the Geekcast Radio Network would

like to give back to you. How, you may ask? Well,

first of all, we're coming up with a brand new

website to be launched June 1st, 2014. In addition

to that, there'll be many new features for interactive

abilities. So how do you enter into this magical

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where you can win some awesome prizes ranging

from comics, blu -rays, DVDs, trade paperbacks,

and comics, and more. How do you enter? Write

in your favorite stories of how the Geekcast

Radio network has affected you in the last five

years and how it's unleashed the geek in you.

You can also enter by writing reviews on our

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www .geekcastradio .com and click on the banner.

So until next time, unleash the geek in you.

Welcome to The Pullback. Join us as we dig on

our latest comics and discuss them with a rotating

panel of the GCRN crew. So sit back and enjoy

this week's Pullback. I give the punchlines around

here. Got it? Hello and welcome to The Pole Bag.

This is episode 75. I find it absolutely hilarious.

I've gotten one podcast at 75 episodes before

the flagship show Geekcast Radio. That'll be

rectified later this year though because GCR

will most definitely hit 100 episodes before

December 31st. Anyway, we are here to talk about

that's man the god damn that man this is our

batman seven years anniversary month of coverage

in the pool bag as i've said in the past five

episodes of since so no actually notes were not

uh... from this is sixty eight seventy four i

said that uh... you know thirteen episodes one

month yes i know i'm crazy and i'm driving people

nuts with content but hey they can download it

at their leisure i'm of course to join my joining

me is steve megatron hello Hello? Doug Abel from

Talking About My Generation. Hello. Hello, sir.

And Jeremy Fine, who wears an outskirt. I thought

I was Batman's psychotic obsession. Oh, God.

It's gonna be a long night, ladies and gentlemen.

No, it won't. You double -scheduled. No, it's

not gonna be a long night because of that. It's

gonna be a long night for all the... Second -rate

Joker impressions. Okay, I promise I won't do

my Joker impressions. Did you say smego? What

the hell? Oh god. Hey, it's either that or Marvin

the Martian. Take your pick. It could be that

or he could be winning. Oh god, no. No. Batman

versus Charlie Sheen, Batman would kick his drunk

ass. Depends on what you're talking about. A

fist fight, Batman would beat the living crab

out of Charlie Sheen. Depends on what kind of

fisting he's doing. Oh god. Alright. Okay. See,

that goes to show you, any podcast can be turned

bad. yeah this is not this is not the based on

least podcast we do not need uh... tentacle porn

and uh... and uh... spreading megatron spreading

his d l over people uh... uh... yeah move on

before you know what you're going to get a good

did you just call him ron jeremy well that's

even worse okay uh... so You find people might

be wondering why are they doing an overall Batman

topic show again well Two years ago for Batman

73rd anniversary Steve and I held a bat week

where we I had several blogs, Steve did several

blogs, Terra the Rising Star, one of our other

staff members did several blogs, and we did Geocast

Radio episode 39. And in that episode, it was

three and a half hours of bat talk. This will

not be that. Since The Pullback is a comic book

discussion and review show, we're going to hit

on the other port... parts of media first, very

briefly, and then we're going to talk about Batman

and comics. So this is going to be a more focused

episode. Not that that wasn't, but that covered

everything. The toys, the games, the video games,

the board games, the horrible lunch boxes at

times, a lot of batmite stuff and everything

else. So that's not what this is here. I just

hope that Steve's BatWave communicator holds

out. Yeah. I think he was sent back to Arkham.

Good place for him. Alright, so here's how we're

going to be running this down. uh... we're really

talking about batman's origin story actually

it's funny that uh... we'll be taking a break

in a moment but uh... j t from saskatoon is also

getting in on this because he gave us the batman

just the facts he kinda goes over the origin

story himself after that we'll talk about batman

in television film uh... batman animation music

of the bat and those wonderful bat toys now you

notice that i left video games off of that simply

because Of the fact that I have not played any

of the Arkham games, I have not played any of

the current ones, I don't have a net... Well,

excuse me, you want to go out and buy me a next

-gen console or buy the games from my computer?

Go ahead. I'm not spending money on video games,

I already spend too much damn money on comics

to do this podcast. Give me a... jerk. Man, I

swear, between Californians and Canadians, I

can never win. All right And then after that

the the the in -depth discussion is gonna be

all about the comics So all these little topics

coming up here are gonna be in total 20 30 minutes

and then the rest of the episode is gonna be

all about Batman and comics Any very quick final

thoughts before I throw it to JT for just the

facts Jeremy? No, can't wait to hear it All right,

Doug sling it on man Joker are you alive? Or

did somebody rip your face off He fell off somebody

fell off the clock tower or something oh Wrong

movie. Oh, that's right. Sorry. I don't think

Joker was in perchance to dream. So definitely

wrong thing All right, we'll be back after this

Brings a smile to my face. Winged freak. Terrorizes.

When you think back on your childhood, who was

the first superhero you ever encountered? Was

it the Man of Steel? Superman? Perhaps. Could

it have been the webbed wall crawler, the Amazing

Spider -Man? Maybe. But it's more than likely

that the first superhero we all encountered was

the masked man hunter, the caped crusader, the

Dark Knight detective himself, Batman. I'm Batman.

Inspired by the likes of pulp heroes such as

the Phantom, Zorro, and Doc Savage, Batman was

created by artist Bob Kane and writer Bill Finger

during the golden age of comics in the 1930s.

Young Bruce Wayne bears witness to his parents

being gunned down by a criminal and swears to

spend the rest of his life warring on all crime.

Watched over by his faithful butler Alfred Pennyworth,

Bruce trains himself to both physical and mental

perfection. But something is missing. He needs

a disguise. But what? As if in answer, a huge

bat flies into the room and inspires Bruce to

create a costume designed to make him look like

an enormous bat, so he can strike fear into the

hearts of criminals everywhere, as criminals

are a superstitious and cowardly lot. 2014 marks

the 75th anniversary of the Batman, who debuted

in the six -page story The Case of the Chemical

Syndicate in Detective Comics No. 27 dated May

1939. In it, we are introduced for the first

time to the Batman as he investigates a series

of murders involving the partners of the Apex

Chemical Company. After learning of the murder

of a man named Lambert, Batman, as Bruce Wayne,

discovers that there are three other men involved

in the chemical business. Batman then races to

the home of Steve Crane, another of the partners,

but is too late. After dealing with the two thugs

who had killed Crane, Batman finds a contract

containing a vital clue as to who is behind the

murders. Heading across town, Batman arrives

just in time to save Rogers, another of the partners,

from the mastermind Alfred Stryker, who tries

to kill his former partner in his lab. Stryker

wanted total control over the business and resorted

to hiring some criminals to kill his partners,

so he wouldn't have to keep paying them out as

per the terms of a secret contract. Mad with

rage, Stryker tries to escape, but a punch from

Batman sends the killer chemist into a vat of

acid. Batman grimly states it was a fitting end

for his kind before escaping through a skylight.

The next day, Commissioner Gordon tells Bruce

Wayne all about the previous night's events,

and Wayne remarks it was a very lovely fairy

tale as he leaves. Gordon mentions aloud that

Bruce is a nice guy, but he's gotta lead a boring

life. But how surprised would the Commissioner

be if he knew that his friend Bruce Wayne was

really the Batman? The inaugural Batman story

was straight out of the pulps. Bruce Wayne used

his connections to the commish to get access

to a crime scene and then as Batman tracks down

the culprits responsible for the rash of killings,

ending the killer with a sock to the jaw. It

even ends on a kind of a wink and a nod to the

audience with the narrator musing on what Gordon

would do if he had known the truth. Sure it may

have been very simple and none too exciting by

today's standards, but this is the story that

started it all. The simplicity of the story combined

with the design of Batman's original bat - suit

with his high -eared cowl and batwing cape stuck

in many a reader's mind for years to come and

would go on to become a cornerstone of the emerging

superhero comic book genre. In his 75 year history,

Batman has changed with the times. Right from

the very beginning, he was a vigilante detective

who fought against crime and corruption as much

as he did super criminals like the Joker and

Catwoman. And as the golden age of comics rolled

on into World War II, Batman would continue to

change, becoming not only a superhero, but a

supporter of the war effort as well. Comic covers

during this time would frequently show Batman

asking readers to buy war bonds, or in the case

of the cover to Batman, number 30, he appears

in the middle of the battlefield to hand a new

gun to a soldier. Comics, everybody! However,

after the war, superhero comics fell out of favor

with many readers who saw such things as silly

and childish. Due to the mandates of the newly

established Comics Code authority, the Dark Knight

was pushed in an increasingly campy sci -fi direction.

Gone were the days of gangsters and villains.

Now Batman would face villains like the Mad Hatter

and Mr. Freeze, deal with annoying fanboys from

the fifth dimension, and travel back in time...

through hypnosis. Well, if anyone could make

that work, it would be Batman. Eventually, this

campy directive was given the old heave -ho again

due to changes in the Comics Code authority,

and in May of 1964, Batman changed again in Detective

Comics No. 327 in The Mystery of the Menacing

Mask, which was also the debut of Batman's new

-look bat suit with the yellow moon highlighting

the bat in his chest. The costume was not the

only thing that changed, as Batman would continue

to fight human -level criminals, but also dealt

with many new and exotic villains such as the

Man -Bat and the seemingly immortal Raz Al Ghul.

Bruce Wayne would also leave Stately Wayne Manor

and move into Gotham City in an attempt to re

-establish his rep as the Batman of old, once

again striking terror into the hearts and minds

of criminal scum everywhere. It was during these

years, through the 70s and into the 80s, that

Batman's cases would become very grim and gritty,

depicting ever more violent crimes. This Batman

would last right up until 1985's Crisis on Infinite

Earths, when this universe -shattering storyline

would reboot the entire DC universe. Afterwards,

Batman was taken back to his vigilante roots

in the historic Batman Year One storyline written

by Frank Miller. Batman was once more established

as a mysterious vigilante operating outside the

law while also maintaining a tenuous relationship

with Commissioner Gordon. Through the years following

Year One, this Batman would remain largely unchanged

except for that time a crazy luchador broke into

Wayne Manor and broke his back. Don't worry,

he got better. Batman would recover and continue

on in his mission, becoming darker and more obsessive

along the way. Eventually, he would alienate

all of the Bat Family, lose his standing with

the GCPD, nearly go to jail for murder, and be

expelled from the Justice League. He would eventually

reconcile with all his allies, rejoin the Justice

League in good standing, and retrain himself,

emerging a better, stronger Batman. Of course,

it wasn't all that long after this that DC Comics

rebooted their entire universe into the New 52,

giving their characters new histories and origins,

as well as making them more modern and accessible.

Batman's history has remained largely unchanged

during this with a few subtle changes. For example,

his origin has remained relatively intact, but

the events of Year 1 have now been replaced by

Year 0, an ongoing storyline detailing the first

year of Batman operating in Gotham, fighting

against the machinations of the Red Hood Gang

and the Riddler. Other things that have changed

in the Bat Universe since the New 52 came about

include Tim Drake always using the name Red Robin,

Barbara Gordon can walk again, and the Joker

had his face cut off on purpose. But the most

troubling development has to be Batman's discovery

of the Cordovalles, a cult -like secret society

that has ruled Gotham from the shadows for centuries,

and who deal with their enemies by way of their

zombified assassins known as Talons. With a character

as rich and long -lived as Batman, writers like

Alan Moore, Dennis O 'Neil, and Grant Morrison

have all been able to craft some of the seminal

comic book stories of the genre, and of all these

stories, there are a few that every Bat -fan

must read. These include Batman the Killing Joke,

written by Alan Moore with art by Brian Boland.

In the story, Joker is shown that he's going

to go to any length to try and break Batman as

he shoots and paralyzes Barbara Gordon before

kidnapping Commissioner Gordon in an attempt

to drive him insane as well. There is also The

Dark Knight Returns written and illustrated by

Frank Miller which is a tale set in a future

where a 55 year old Batman is suiting up once

again to save Gotham City from the gangs that

have overrun it and ends up facing Superman in

a fight that only one of them will survive. Miller

also wrote the seminal story Year One with art

from David Mazzichelli where they recount the

beginning of Bruce Wayne's career as Batman and

Detective James Gordon's arrival in town and

how they both fought against the Grafton corruption

nearly drowning Gotham city. And if you're feeling

adventurous, I'd like to recommend you check

out some of the Elseworld Batman stories. Elseworlds

being DC Comics' version of the old Marvel comic

What If. Some of my favorites include Castle

of the Bat, an homage to the Frankenstein story

where Bruce Wayne is a scientist that brings

his father back from the dead as a patchwork

monster that goes on a rampage and inadvertently

solves his own murder. There's also Gotham by

Gaslight, a story where a Victorian -era steampunk

Batman must capture Jack the Ripper who is operating

in early 1900s Gotham City. But my favorite Elseworlds

tale would have to be from 1994's Detective Comics

Annual Number 7 entitled Leatherwing, where Batman

is not a crime fighter, but a pirate captain

in service to the British Crown who raids ships

of rival countries and fights against the insane

pirate captain known only as the Laughing Man.

To sum up, the Dark Knight has been many things

over the course of the last 75 years. He's been

a detective, a superhero, a symbol of justice,

and a grim avenger of evil. He's fought every

conceivable form of crime there is, from insane

killer clowns, to immortal eco -terrorists, to

nihilistic alien death gods from another world.

Who is he? Well, I'll let the man himself tell

you. So thank you JT for those rousing just the

facts here inside the pull bag episode 75 What's

going on the table what were each of yours each

of your guys's thoughts on the origin of Batman

Steve Well, I think it's kind of interesting

the The way that he came about and kind of his

evolution over time that that between Bob Kane

and Bill Finger on the evolution of the character

before he became what we know now. Yeah, what

about you Jeremy? For me, this is definitely

Trauma 101. I mean this took place in the 30s

and it was supposed to be in New York and During

the Great Depression, this was nothing new. Families

were used to having their loved ones killed in

front of them. They were used to the violence

and the darkness of the economy collapsing. So

the fact that you start off with this comic book

where a kid watches his parents murdered in front

of him and he's staring down the gunman and the

gunman is more scared. of this little boy staring

him down than anything i don't even think joe

chill even took anything from thomas and martha

after he shot them in cold blood i think that

um if you can get your hands on that um if you

want to come with psychology you can see that

joe chill has you know his eyes are wall -eyed

his face is crooked and he's nervous so it definitely

started something that it's like no more we've

had enough and you know children are a future

and I'm just glad that somehow after witnessing

the death of his parents that he was able to

not only move on but push his body his mind to

the limits to make sure this would never happen

again to anybody rich or poor mm -hmm absolutely

what about you Doug you know the the origin story

it's I like the fact that they that you see how

Batman becomes Batman that that you see Bruce

Wayne becoming dark Because of what happened

with his parents The fact that he comes up, you

know, basically, I mean, yeah, he's a rich kid

He's you know, he's cared for by Alfred for most

of his life Coming through all that and coming

through the adversity. It's a good Hey, I'm coming

back and taking back. You know, I'm gonna beat

back the streets I thought it was decent Getting

into some of the other further pop culture and

having the story retold multiple times in multiple

different ways Personally, I think that that

was a little overdone, but that's further discussion

later on mm -hmm For me, you know I didn't The

origin story I hate to say it but as a nine -year

-old I was forced to believe that you know He

danced with the devil in the pale moonlight.

Um, I didn't know any better at that time. I

only knew the Adam West campy series. Um, not

saying the Adam West 66 Batman series is bad.

It's got its own place in the mythology, but,

uh, you know, so I didn't know what, like somebody

mentioned Joe to chill to me about, I don't know,

five, 10 years ago, even I would say definitely

before Batman Begins. So, at least before 2005,

I wouldn't have known who the hell you were talking

about. And I'm just being honest there. You know,

the whole thing with the origin, that's pretty

extreme for a kid at that age. Like, that's really

extreme. I mean, it must have been... horrifying

seeing your parents gunned down in cold blood,

but for that kid to make that vow right then

and then carry it out throughout the rest of

his life, that's pretty hardcore and a little

bit crazy. Well, it's guilt, too, if you think

about it, because if you hear from Bruce Wayne's

perspective, he started off as a spoiled rich

kid. And he feels guilty because he forced his

parents to take him to see that movie and then

he got tired and they went through crime alley

and they were gunned. If you see in another version,

they were at the opera, Bruce was scared of these

actors dressed as bats because we see a flashback

where he fell down a well and bats scare him.

He still feels guilty. No matter what the outcome

is, he thought that it was his fault that his

parents died. Yeah, no and I agree with that

I just think it's It's a completely traumatic

event like I said, but I would never think that

a child Any child would go to that much of extreme

regardless of the guilt that you felt But you

know it is it is a very interesting Way to do

an origin and it you know it basically started

75 years of Batman Batman Bruce Wayne Gotham

a Lot of that stuff is created by Bob Kane and

Bill Finger Don't care what any of the comics

say I don't care what any of the media DVD says

Bill Finger is a co -creator. I mean that would

be like you know It would be if you'll be like

having just You know, just Siegel and not Shuster

in Superman. Well, yeah, there is that, but I

was going to say what it would be like is if,

you know, heaven forbid this doesn't happen anytime

soon, but let's say Steve passes away and I take

sole credit for the Geekcast Radio Network, that

would be completely assholish of me. And that's

what I honestly think. No, I know back then in

those days. deals like that and deals like for

example mel blank being credited as the only

voice actor for all the loomingtunes cartoons

i know they don't make deals like that anymore

but i mean come on i mean the cain fan the the

cain family can't really be that damn shallow

to not allow and i assume and i i don't know

this i i assume because i'm not looking at any

wikipedia articles or anything else i assume

Bill Finger and Bob Kane, they co -created the

damn character and the city and all that stuff.

I assume they were friends. So it's not like,

you know, it was two guys and, you know, sitting

in two different corners with two different damn

dunce caps on. So I mean, come on, get over it.

Alright. So the next little topic here is Batman

and TV and film now this is live -action only

we'll talk about the animation separately I remember

growing up in the 80s watching reruns of the

66 show I remember this being so damn cool because

at the time I Didn't realize it was a 60s show.

I mean if you look At Batman 66 it looks like

something that could have come out of the 80s

doesn't it? Oh hell yes I thought it was a Saturday

morning cartoon at first because I remember watching

the reruns of 66 and then in 84 and I remember

when the weekday afternoon cartoons were over

and they would have that animated sequence I

thought It's five o 'clock, we get more cartoons

and then it was this live action. I said, no,

thank you. I think when 89 came out and they

were pushing the 66 show again, I watched this

and they played that show, I think up until 1992,

1993 because of Batman 89 and Batman Returns.

This is actually what got me into Batman as campy

as it is. And I got the discs next to me and

got Adam West to sign a picture. where there

was a Photoshop where he was holding, you know,

the bomb from Batman the movie underneath Joker

from Dark Knight. I gave it to him, he looks

at it, he's like, did you Photoshop this? And

I said, yeah, I found it on Facebook and I figured

this would be perfect because, you know, he talked

about Heath Ledger. So, you know, it was definitely

worth the autograph, but the 66 show... It holds

up. I mean, they do talk about, in the pilot,

the death of the family, because Bruce does say

that he's using his money to make sure that,

you know, his parents were killed in front of

him. He never wants that to happen. You know,

he only mentions it once. But the show was violent

from time to time. The problem they had to make

it can't be because of kids. They didn't want

and that's why Batman was only deputized in that

TV show because they did not want Batman He is

a vigilante and they didn't want kids to be corrupt

and that's why they always had to have those,

you know values and moral codes with Robin Yeah

It was it was still just a little too far out

there in some cases when you hear some engineering

trivia though Guess who was going to be the Joker?

Blue Eyes himself. Frank Sinatra? That would

never work. He wanted to be Joker. And well,

it's funny because producer William Dozer, who

was the narrator for this show, thought the same

thing. He did not think that Sinatra could play

Joker. I mean, if you want to, you know, combine

Sinatra, the Joker and the singing sword from

Roger Rabbit, sure, you know, you can have a

singing sword Joker, but. As what the Joker was

played by Cesar Romero, that would have never

worked with Sinatra. No. Not at all. Doug, what

were your initial beginnings with Batman on TV?

Well, for me it was, it was again Batman 66 because

I watched it pretty much, you know, I would tune

in same bat time, same bat channel to watch it.

That was the big thing for me. I remember seeing

that and my grandmother loved Adam West. I mean,

she grew up, he used to do a DJ radio station

in Hawaii. And so she knew him from that. And

so she would sit us down and say, here, you have

to watch the show. It's really good. And just

seeing that and all the campy stuff that you'd

see, like them climbing up the walls and having

people pop out at random and tell jokes that

was just absolutely corny, stupid jokes. I loved

it. I thought it was great. I mean, that was

really That was part of it there and then when

we got into the animated series again, that was

really kind of my hook I know that was you know,

you're looking for more live -action, but that's

really more so where I got in my Batman stuff

What about you Steve for the live -action stuff

for TV well, I first saw the 66 Batman in the

early 90s And I used to sit there and watch it

with my mom, who grew up on it. And at the time,

I thought it was the coolest thing ever. Now

I look at it and see it for the campy goofiness

that it is. And it definitely screams. You can

see the 60s kind of byproduct to it, like the

original Star Trek. kind of how hokey the whole

thing is, but it also screams 80s because if

you look at it, it almost reminds me of the Super

Mario Brothers Super Show where you have the...

No. Yes. He's going... No. I'm going there. Thankfully,

they never... Thankfully, Batman was made in

the 60s, this television show. Thankfully, they

never thought ever to put Adam West and Burt

Ward in drag like they did with Mario and Luigi.

My god that thought aside They still put they

still put them in animation doing their their

vocals Throughout a lot of the 70s Yeah, that's

that's very true All right, so the other See

that's a funny thing. I don't know what the whole

Warner Brothers Kane family deal is, but there

hasn't been a real Batman television show since

the sixties. And by real Batman television show,

I mean actually having somebody in the suit on

the screen. There's a reason for that. Three

reasons. One, it has to deal with that suit and

As you probably know, it's rubber. And the problem

is, is that anytime somebody would try to work

out and put on the suit, it would make them look

fat. The second problem is budget. I can't imagine

a Batman TV show with the budget that they would

want for the movie to work on TV. And the third

problem would be casting, because who would you

think TV -wise would pull off Batman? And who

do you think TV -wise could pull off Penguin,

Joker? Two -face and the fourth problem I think

would be Merchandise, you know be demographics

would it be for kids adults because it goes to

so many problems and scripts I Don't think there's

such a problem with it. I think that I I mean

look at arrow That point taken right there. It's

it's basically Batman with green arrow. I mean

it well In that case then let's look at Gotham

Well, wait a second, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Sorry, I'm coming ahead of myself. We'll get

to Gotham, hold on one second. But yeah, I mean,

I can kind of see that, but it's still, you know,

it's not a question of who would they get because

obviously they can figure that out. Kind of like

they've done with the live action stuff in the

films or other DC characters that they've managed

to hit the small screen. mm -hmm yeah absolutely

I mean so what like I said there hasn't been

a true a true Batman television show on TV since

the 60s now oh dang Oh yeah, that's awesome.

That'll be a good little note for later. Since

we're breaking up animation from live action,

there was a series that, a very short -lived

series, from in 2003, Birds of Prey. I knew you

were gonna bring that up. I was just the best.

I don't care what anyone says, for what this

show was, for the fact that it was WB. I fucking

loved it. And I loved it mainly for two reasons.

Number one, Mark Hamill returned as the voice

of the Joker. Yes. Number two, um, Ferris Bueller's

girlfriend is Harley Quinn. I knew you were gonna

say that too, yes. But she never put on the suit

though. No, well, she's Dr. Harleen Quinzel,

yes, but... You know if the show had gotten its

legs under it. Oh and the third reason Aunt Becky

from full house is his black canary That is kind

of awesome All right, so there's birds of prey

It's not that great of it. I mean I still love

the show I still enjoy it for what it is but

let's face it, most of the time is universally

panned by everybody. And again, I think that,

at least in my opinion, it's one of those things

where even back then networks weren't giving

stuff a really good running start and chance

to get its legs under itself. After that, for

television, we've got coming up Gotham, which

is before everything. Basically. This is basically

Fox's answer to Smallville. Oh, God. Yeah. I'm

Fox. I'm having a hard time with that, but we'll

see. Maybe it'll... Well, okay, Smallville was

WBCW, but that's what I'm saying. This is Fox's

way of saying, hey, we can take a superhero character...

Rogues gallery and and and and origin and put

it on television, too Let's let's do Batman and

this is before penguin before Riddler before

poison ivy before now Batman before Catwoman

And the interesting thing here is is Ben McKenzie

voiced Batman in the year one animated film,

but this is his, I believe this is his first

time home to Fox since his series The O .C. ended

a number of years ago. So that's a little interesting

factoid there. With Gotham, I'm very optimistic.

My hope for it is however long it goes. I honestly

don't want it to go. 10 seasons like smallville

did i'd say maybe five six is a good round kind

of number um and my hope for the and i and i

know i'm saying this but my hope for whenever

the series finale happens is that it's part of

aflex multi appearance deal that he has with

with warner brothers I think that would be really

really cool because if you're telling a story

that's before you know before Batman that it's

you know a child Bruce Wayne and it maybe takes

him into his teen years and then he goes away

for you know and comes back as an adult kind

of like a whole you know Simba you know going

to meet Timon and Pumbaa kind of thing and he

comes back and you end the series with however

Ben Affleck is going to sound as Batman. You

end the series with Affleck in the suit. That

would be awesome. You've heard rumors, though,

like what they tried to do with year one, where

Batman was going to go to a garage and meet these

two mechanics, Big Al and Little Al. But I mean,

I've also heard that Josh Sweden wanted to work

on this show. Anyone to do the teenage years.

But I am optimistic. I've seen the trailer 45

times, I'm impressed. The only pit in my stomach

that I have is on Fox, because Fox, as you know,

the executives are like, okay, it's not about

ratings, if they just don't like it for the sake

of not liking it, it goes into the can. That's

my only fear. But past that, I don't know...

I mean, I know what this is gonna be about, I

just don't know why they're pushing... I can

understand Penguin, because I would love to see

penguin before he became penguin. Catwoman, yeah,

but I don't know why they're pushing poison ivy.

You never know. You know, I think it's one of

those things where the only thing that's gonna

make me upset about it being at Fox is if Fox

screws with the scheduling of the airing of the

show. Oh, God. You're right. Another firefly.

Can't be any worse than Cartoon Network. God

don't eat. That's a whole other podcast. Yeah

Steve do you have Steve or Doug you guys have

any quick thoughts on Gotham before we transfer

into the films? Basically a long line with what

you're saying there. I hope that it's gonna be

good I am praying that it doesn't end up being

another smallville because while I like smallville

it went on way too long Yeah, there were several

story arcs in that series that could have been

cut the hell out. Oh, yeah Yeah, but I mean that's

again. That's another podcast. Yeah, but I I

think it'll be good. I'm Hoping you know again

trying to be quietly optimistic Hopefully it

doesn't fall flat and Fox doesn't say oh, let's

run episode 13 is episode 6 or something like

that so Steve I can really see them totally like

screwing everything up but I'm gonna wait and

see what happens only for the fact that yeah

it's an origin but they may move on very quickly

as the seasons progress I can't see them having

Bruce Wayne as a kid for the entire run And you

know they're going to milk it, so it's... Oh

yeah. At some point he's going to have to grow

into the role. Now I assume three out of the

four of us have seen Batman 89 in theaters direct.

Yes. Did you get your Jim Henley's advanced comic

book ticket? No. All right. Well, Jim Henleys

used to be this huge comic book store, at least

around, you know, my area in New York, and you

would buy this advance ticket to see a 7 a .m.

viewing of Batman opening day. So, of course,

the comic book store was packed, got my ticket,

and, of course, I still had to wait. There was

a huge line around the block. If you ever watched

The Simpsons, the itching, scratchy movie where

Bart opens up his door... And that's where the

line begins. That's pretty much what Batman 89

was like. And we went in, the air conditioning

was working and they couldn't shut it off because

this is before IMAX sound, the TH, you know.

So we couldn't hear it. And finally, I think

right around 45 minutes, if I were able to turn

it off, and I had crappy seats, but I'll tell

you, people were pumped. It was packed. You couldn't,

Kevin Smith said it best. You could not go anywhere.

You had to get... Remember going to Macy's and

getting like three of these Macy's exclusive

Batman t -shirts with the symbol and the bats

flying around It was insane Absolutely What about

you Doug? This movie I actually I was really

impressed with it. I remember seeing all the

stuff Nintendo power coming out and talking about

it with the Batman video game that was gonna

be coming out One of the big things that I remember

was weird owl hated this movie and the whole

reason the weirdo hated the movie was because

His movie came out the same weekend as Batman

UHF came out same weekend as Batman Just killed

all chances and he was all excited. He's like

this is gonna be a great movie and Batman happened

and box offices blew up with Michael Keaton all

over the screen and Jack Nicholson as Joker.

I mean it was it was probably I I'm gonna say

this for the movies Heath Ledger's number one

for the Joker Jack Nicholson is probably my number

two for for the Joker for live -action stuff

Steve when did you eventually see? Batman 89

because I know at three years old your mom did

not take you to see this movie I saw it actually

probably in 91 I want to say okay um So I mean

I was I was little The sad thing is, I didn't

mind that movie. It was when it got to Returns

that it scared the shit out of me as a kid. Yeah,

no, I can agree. Batman Returns was... Sick.

Very dark. Like, if you thought Batman 99 was

dark with what the Joker was doing... Burton

knocked it to a whole new level with the sickening

twist of Penguin, you know why? No, because Burton

thought that penguin was wimpy and he wanted

to make it darker because he figured okay if

they killed Joker Who was gonna be the you know,

the second guy who's gonna Trump Joker? So that's

why they had to make penguin a mutant Yeah, but

he could have been so much better of a mutant

than Reagan jr We do not need Mr. Throw -Mama

-from -the -train as the friggin' penguin. But

that's what the public wanted. But he was real

creepy. Yeah. I mean, that's by far the creep

- Danny DeVito is a comedian. Let's face it,

he is. I think that's the most creepiest role

he has ever done in his entire career. He did

have a really good line in the movie. The best

line I think from him was when he's standing

there and he's talking to the public and he goes,

you know, all I wanted to be was number one.

But all they treated me like was number two.

Yeah. There are a couple of things about Batman

Returns I liked. Obviously, Michelle Pfeiffer

in the cat suit. And of course, the fact that

you have a full -on... I mean, Ernie would go

crazy, ladies and gentlemen. He really would

because you had a supersized rubber ducky. Oh,

yeah. That's from the zoo. That's a thing that

they forgot. In the novelization, he's at the

old... abandoned Gotham Zoo and apparently there's

this old children section and that's where the

duck comes from it's from a ride and apparently

there's this whole thing where Penguin was a

kid and where he was playing with these other

you know the penguins that adopted him in the

you know in the beginning of the movie but they

tried to make that rubber duck they tried to

market that as a toy they tried to make that

I think in one of the final bosses in the Atari

Lynx version of the game My god, yeah, you had

to you were Batman the problem is because of

the glare you couldn't see it But my friend had

it and apparently at the end like the duck would

go up and down like there was like You know the

wheels with it with the conveyor belt and Batman

had to keep jumping and throwing batarangs at

it till exploded. Yeah Alright, and then now

I know I get it these movies a lot of people

don't like them a lot of people felt they were

more fun brought back a lot of the camp to Batman

I Will defend one and I will only defend one

certain aspect of the other I? Very much enjoyed

Batman forever I still do to this day mainly

because back then I had a huge crush on Nicole

Kidman and Nicole Kidman as dr. Chase Meridian

Wowza The movie itself, it has its moments. Is

it the best thing ever? No. Is it the worst thing

ever? No. But I did very much enjoy it. On the

other hand, the only thing going for Batman and

Robin is the fact that they got Alicia Silverstone

to play Batgirl. Yeah. No British accent, though.

I don't understand why, but... You know... Suspension

of disbelief. Well, why is he not Commissioner

Gordon's daughter? That I couldn't tell you maybe

because Pat Hingle wasn't around at the time.

I'm not sure I don't know she's related to Alfred

You know, I'm gonna say that Alfred was the best

thing about that movie Yeah, Michael Goff the

actor as Alfred was absolutely amazing best thing

he ever did for that franchise Was the diet coke

commercial commercial? And then we would go eight

years without a Batman movie in 2005 Christopher

Nolan blew everybody away and Batman begins and

we get this whole new trilogy of back films And

we get Christian Bale as Batman. So we've had

so far Michael Keaton twice, Val Kilmer, who

that's another thing I'll defend Batman Forever

about. He was a better Bruce Wayne than he was

a Batman. And then we had Mr. ER himself, George

Clooney in Batman and Robin, which he is by far

the worst Batman ever in live action anyway.

So we go to 2005, we go to Batman Begins. Steve,

what was your initial reaction when you heard

the news about Batman Begins? What's funny is

I actually didn't even, it never hit my radar

until The Dark Knight came out. Oh wow, really?

Like I didn't even know it was out. Like, cause

I was just, I was in a period of just working

consistently and had a lot going on. So I just,

it just never, never clicked with me. Wow, I

ended up watching it later before the dark night,

but I Actually heard about this on VH ones the

best week ever where they mentioned that I think

Christian Bale was gonna be Batman and I knew

of him from American Psycho I thought well, it

would make more sense for him to be Joker or

and actually Kelly Murphy who? play Scarecrow

was supposed to be Bruce Wayne, but then Christian

Bale came along and Christopher Nolan said, you

know what, I'll make you Scarecrow and I'll make

you Batman because of all the things that Bale

did to his body to fit in that suit. But I just

remember hearing that here was the here were

going to be the villains. It was going to be

Scarecrow and Ra's al Ghul. And I was like, now

you're just like picking villains out of thin

air. Like at one point it was going to be Mambad

and one point it was going to be Scarecrow and

Harley Quinn why these two and surprisingly the

story made sense of why Scarecrow because the

head of Arkham he made a deal with race to Get

these flowers to experiment on so we can create

his fear toxin and then race would come in to

you know Dissolve the water and use the fear

toxin to destroy the world this villain. I mean

the lobe as Ra's Al Ghul, well, we'll talk about

that later, but Qui -Gon Jinn as Ra's, well,

it's Liam Neeson, I'm not gonna complain, but

I walked out of there going, I wanted a little

more, and they were so concerned about bringing

Joker in. But, you know, Batman Begins is, the

only weak link in that series, or at least, you

know, Batman Begins, I think, has to be Katie

Holmes. both actresses sucked. You didn't like

Maggie Jenow? I didn't like them tossing in that

character, honestly. Oh that's true, yeah. That

whole character of Rachel is meant to ground

him or show him a proper way to do things, and

it's just a waste. I would have rather have had

another Vicki Vale, honestly, it would have been

a lot better. And the fact that you have to get

two different actresses to play the same damn

role. They should have just killed Katie Holmes

and created a whole new female interest. But

that's just my two cents. All right, so we have

Batman Begins 2005. Three years later, we all

believe in Harvey Dent. That 800 number you used

to get. Yep, yep. And now... I've seen Heath

Ledger in... Probably three of his biggest films

to this point Ten things I hate about you is

his breakout. Okay granted. It's not a huge film,

but it's turned into a cult classic The Patriot

with Mel Gibson and a Knight's Tale And You know

2008 I was just kind of getting back, you know

into the superhero stuff I was on the internet

full -time and I was kind of you know apprehensive

after introducing the joker at the end of batman

begins and hearing heath ledger i didn't freak

out like everybody on the internet did like everybody

oh mr broke back man he's not going to be able

to play the joker come on now that's a i saw

a lot of that going around the internet i never

personally said that um But, I mean, he brought

that role to, like, I don't know any actor today

that could betray it better than he did in 2008.

Well, that was Lightning in a Bottle, and I think

what's sad is that had he lived, he was going

to be in Dark Knight Rises. Mm -hmm. Yep. uh...

steve thoughts on the dark night and how you

first originally saw it i think it's all the

dark night theater uh... and i remember justin

uh... to begin with i was kind of off put by

a lit he pledger but then i was kind of like

you know what i'm fine with it because he did

a really good job for uh... the character so

i i just the the whole Way that they managed

to capture everybody in that that film and do

something that we'd never seen before with Batman

kind of It kind of blew me away watching it Absolutely,

absolutely Jeremy and Doug, what are your initial

thoughts on Dark Knight? Dark Knight for me was

probably the best one. I mean I was I will say

that I was absolutely surprised at how well Heath

pulled it off. My first experience with him was

Night's Tale, and I thought that that was absolutely

awful, that they bastardized rock songs with

medieval times. But moving on to this, I sat

there and was just floored by how well and how

spooky he was, especially when he kept telling

his origin story to everybody. Like in different

ways in all the different ways. You never heard

the same thing twice No For me for me People

were bitching and I think I was bitching for

about a tenth of a second and as luck and coincidence

had it Will Smith's I am legend if you went to

seed in IMAX You got to see the first five minutes

of the bank heist paid by 20 bucks watch the

bank heist went back, paid another 20 bucks,

I must have done it about three, four times,

spent like probably 100 bucks just to see that

scene. I could not shut up about that scene.

I mean, the way, I mean, Danny Elfman hands him

a fight, two different cats doing their score,

but the way that they were able to do that score

in the beginning, to pick up Joker at the corner,

right before they're about to rob the bank, you

know, it's like that holding that cord on the

violin, I think it... I think that's how they

did it. And just how the criminals are talking

like they don't know who the joker is, they don't

even know the joker exists. They're just there

to rob the bank and one by one each criminal

is getting greedier and killing off the next

person who's sharing off the alarm, who's opening

up the vault. You have the bank manager who will

eventually be shredder, and I'll talk about that

another time, is trying to shoot at joker. And

you can even see with the masks and the conversations.

And also I think there was some great balance,

and I've said this before about comic book movies.

Ten Minutes goes to Joker, Ten Minutes goes to

Bruce Wayne, Ten Minutes to Batman, Alfred, and

it keeps going around and around in a great circle.

And also this movie plays a great game of put

up or shut up where in other movies, you know,

the villain would capture the damsel in distress

and Batman would save the day. This one, you

didn't know what was going to happen. Rachel

died in the... You thought, okay, he was gonna

save her, no. The only disappointment was Harvey

Dent turning into Two -Face was too fast, too

quick, too soon. They killed him, and that's

it. And Batman will take the fall, even though

Joker has been threatening to blow up hospitals

if somebody who knows about Batman's identity

won't be, you know, is gonna be revealed, and

Joker's like... If he's not dead in an hour,

I'm going to blow up a hospital. It's like, why

would Batman take responsibility for all this?

But other than that, yeah, this is a very hard,

besides Heath Ledger, this is going to be a very

hard script to top, Batman -wise. Oh yeah, absolutely.

And finally, for the live -action film and TV

stuff, we've got The Dark Knight Rises. enjoyed

the movie for what it was I would probably rank

them if I was gonna rank them one through three

being one the best and three not necessarily

the worst but the lower end of the totem pole

I'd probably go Dark Knight Rises and then begins

because begins for me is The second half of the

movie, once he becomes Batman, is where it gets

me excited. The first half where he's going through

his training and all that crap and he burns Rach's

house down and Rach burns his house. I don't

care. But The Dark Knight Rises, I liked it.

I thought it was interesting. Having the princess

diary chick as Catwoman was interesting. So there

is that. I don't know Doug initial impressions

on Dark Knight Rises. It was okay. I felt it

was slow I really tried to get into it and because

I kept thinking I'm gonna like this because I

really liked you know Dark Knight and It just

it felt like it dragged on for me one of the

best parts was just seeing Joseph Gordon Levitt

I I thought he was excellent you know especially

in a little bit at the very end where you find

out that he's supposed to be Robin and then you

know he's discovering the Batcave and I was kind

of hoping that, hey, you know, the next series,

he'll become Nightwing or something to that effect.

And who knows? Maybe they'll do that. I don't

know. But it just wasn't as wasn't as good as

the first two. I probably would rank that third

out of the three of them. Not that it wasn't

good. It just that's where it would stand for

me. Steve, what about you? As far as the Dark

Knight rises, I. I enjoyed the film. I had other

issues with it. I also had one of those Inception

mindfuck moments in the film, but I saw it coming.

But I also knew some of the source material that

it was kind of pulling from, so on that front,

it didn't really bother me either. So I mean,

it's, I don't know, it's... It's not my favorite.

I would rather watch the Dark Knight than Dark

Knight Rises. Mm -hmm. I just, I didn't really

care for what they did to Batman as a character.

Or Bruce Wayne. Yeah. Yeah, that's a little crazy.

I didn't see this. Kill me. Your punishment must

be more severe. All right. I'd rather watch Spider

-Man 3 over the Dark Knight Rises. I thought

putting Bane in was a mistake. I didn't like

the fact that Talia... was the villain when she's

supposed to be the love interest. I didn't like

the fact that they took No Man's Land, Nightfall,

Battle for the Cowl, and tried to cram it into

2 hours and 40 minutes. The only interesting

thing was how they changed Robin's origin around

a little bit. I was really hoping that within

the 90 minute mark, Bruce Wayne with fake his

death and... You know, Robin would take over

as Nightwing instead of like, everybody in the

theater going, okay, that's gonna be Nightwing,

that's gonna be Nightwing, that's gonna be Nightwing.

Yeah, they changed his origin. And as for Hathaway's

Catwoman, no. She is no Michelle Pfeiffer and

she is no Julie Newmar. I've never seen you laugh

before. I don't think I like it. Cut it out.

You're giving me the creeps. You little fool.

We're gonna take a quick break. We're actually

gonna take a moment of silence in remembrance

of Ephraim Zimbalist Jr. who recently passed

away. He was the voice of Alfred in the DC animated

universe. We'll be back after this. Oh my god.

Master Bruce, I... Miss Gordon, I heard you've

discovered our little secret. Yes, I admit it.

I am Batman. So now that we have found out that

Alfred Pennyworth is Batman... Batman in animation...

You know, you had the adventures of Batman and

Robin in the 70s, you had... a lot of Batman

cartoons in the 80s. I think most of them featured

Adam West and Burt Ward voicing the characters.

I liked them. You had the new Scooby Doo movies

with Batman and Robin. I liked those. You had

the Super Friends, all those shows. I liked those,

but it didn't really... Batman for me didn't

really hit until 1992. 22 years ago. Steve, I

assume BTAS was your first exposure? To the animation?

Yeah. Yes and no. It was the major one that I

paid attention to, but I was originally introduced

via Cartoon Network and shows like that through

to the Super Friends. so I get to see the hokey

version before I got to watch the the true DCAU

version where you know you have a real Justice

League and not the Wonder Twins don't forget

about Gleek nobody remembers them wonder dog

didn't have like a wonder dog or something the

other twins Probably but leak is more memorable.

Honestly. Yeah What about you Doug what was your

first Well for me it was for me I remember seeing

super friends and you know hearing Casey case

I'm doing Robin That was probably my first exposure

to it and I was kind of like wow that sounds

odd You know hearing him hearing him because

I always heard him on the radio So it was it

was a big thing for me to hear that doing top

40 Probably the best though best by far Kevin

Conroy is Batman. He is the goddamn Batman. I'm

sorry Absolutely always and forever. Yeah and

beyond Yeah, yeah What about you Jeremy for me?

I would watch challenge of the super friends

as a kid on Saturday mornings, but when it came

to the 92 show I was in high school at the time,

so I wasn't watching too many cartoons, but I

would channel surf. I just remember the design

and voice of Joker. I didn't know it was Mark

Hamill at the time. It wasn't until Mask of the

Phantasm they had a behind the scenes that it

was Mark Hamill. I started to watch the show

in reruns in college, and I was impressed that

it played like a radio drama. I know it was trying

to go back to the 40s serials and the 40s, but...

Every time I said there was no way this could

be for an eight -year -old which was perfect.

It didn't insult your intelligence It was well

written. Yeah, there were some turkeys, but what

show back then even today doesn't have a few

turkeys here and there And of course I discussed

my top 37 animated episodes of Batman the animated

series But I think the reason why the show worked

was for three reasons one the design to the cast

and three, we got to talk about that score because

it did change over the seasons. I think it was

Shirley Walker who did the score. Yes, for the

most part it was Shirley Walker. Danny Elfman

did the original theme and then she went back

with New Adventures and then, or no, The Adventures

of Batman and Robin, which was I believe the

second season and then New Adventures. was the

the final two seasons but yeah it was Shirley

Walker it was her and her team and you know she

really you know made a breakout this is again

one of those deals that you don't often see but

Shirley Walker was very very into the art of

getting people you know, exposure for composing

and she had a program for composers that no one,

I don't even think they have a program like this

today. They might still have it, I'm not sure,

I might have to ask her son Ian, but it's just

one of those things where the music for this

series, the music for the entire DC animated

universe, Batman, Superman, Batman Beyond, Justice

League, Justice League Unlimited, simply amazing

all of it is is is damn damn good Batman would

then transition to Superman with the first ever

team up in world's finest in the DCA you the

first ever team up I should say and then we would

get to Justice League in the cartoon continuity,

not the continuity of release of show, but the

cartoon continuity of actual events. And then,

you know, we would head 50 years into the future

and talk about Batman Beyond. I remember watching

this show and was like, wait, Batman's old? What

is going on here? And as I kept watching it,

and I really like, I remember the first time

I saw the Rebirth two -parter, I was like, I'm

completely sold on this. This is absolutely amazing.

Yeah, it was the Dark Knight returns because

I guess they couldn't make it into a DCAU. This

was the best thing. It was, you know, Bruce Wayne

was going to become Alfred, which made sense.

And of course you had a new rogue gallery. And

of course you had the return of Freeze. I kind

of did a closure on that with his what happened

to him. Yeah. They kinda needed to do a closure

on Freeze. I mean, the last time we'd seen him

was in New Adventures and he turned into a damn

spider. Yeah, and I'm not complaining. I mean,

I thought it was an awesome. The only thing is

that it's still... I don't know, it's ironic

that the first time we see him with Bruce Timm

and Paul Dini, who recreate the origin, it's

heartbreaking. And then it ends. It's even more

heartbreaking. Yeah. Um... Doug or the Steve

or any or Jeremy Do you guys have any other thoughts

on any of the other DCIU stuff before I move

on to the next iteration? I like the Batman.

It was okay. It's a guilty pleasure Batman Beyond

probably the next best thing and I mean we covered

that on my podcast. I'm not even gonna really

go into it. So Steve I My favorites were were

Batman the animated series through all its various

title changes and Batman beyond I just those

were my favorites. I mean, I have a spot for

Justice League, but Ultimately, I still I still

love Anything with just Batman in it at justice

league and just as they learned that he got some

really good like you thought the one -liners

from batman were good in t a s and and superman's

crossovers in justice league he gets some amazing

good one -liners uh... and just absolutely amazing

uh... two thousand four we had the batman interesting

new take on its uh... i didn't really get into

the batman too much i'd didn't jump in until

i think the season five two part of the batman

superman story when tim daly returned as superman

and glancy brown returned as lex luther in that

two -part episode for season five uh... i still

have to go back and watch the batman all five

seasons uh... let's see what uh... what about

you guys uh... uh... doug and jeremy for the

batman i think i was but i never really saw it

I own it, I own all five seasons. I have to say

though, this is really, it works because it's

actually year three of Batman. And it shows that

he's not there training wise. And it shows that,

okay, now we have Barbara Gordon and Jim Gordon

and Barbara's jailbait, but she comes in before

Robin. And Kevin Conroy, who is supposed to be

Dick Grayson's father. And of course you got

Mark Hamill as Tony Zuko in season four. And

let's not forget the late, great Frank Gorshin

the Riggler voiced Dr. Hugo Strange in seasons,

I believe, two and three before he passed away.

So, the only flaw was, and I'm not taking anything

away from Michael Clarke Duncan. I mean, no.

Was it Michael Clarke Duncan? No, no. Wait, who

are you trying to remember? The voice actor,

voice joker. It's not Michael Clark. Oh, it's

no. Kevin Michael Richardson. I'm sorry. I'm

not taking anything away from Kevin Michael Richardson.

He's a great voice actor. Phenomenal. But the

problem with him is Joker. I don't know. I think

you mentioned this before. He looked like a Muppet.

And I think with Freezed, OK, they didn't want

to do the Bruce Tempoldini storyline. That didn't

work. Firefly surprisingly works in this because

he only has like two episodes, but Other than

that, Season 5, they tried to bring in Justice

League. It's kind of okay, but I didn't like

the actor who voiced Martian Manhunter in that

one. And then, of course, they got rid of Detective

Yin. I kind of liked her, but she just, like,

goes away. We never know what happens to her.

And what else was there? Yeah, I mean, Clayface,

I really was not impressed with the Clayface

origin in this. It made no sense. No, not at

all. But we did have Freddy Krueger as Riddler,

so that's not bad. That's interesting. So you've

had John Glover and Freddy Krueger, wow, as Riddler,

holy crap. Next up is Batman the Brave and the

Bold. I understand this is a love letter to the

Silver Age of comics. I still to this day cannot

get over its ucking Oswald from the Drew Carey

show is the voice of Batman. I don't really hold

it against the show that much anymore because

I'm used to it by now, but I can only watch certain

episodes of this show. You know, the Batman from

Super Planet X where Kevin Conroy was a guest

voice. Any of the Batmite episodes absolutely

love those. uh... but the rest of it just just

isn't my batman guilty pleasure for me you love

the show and also the fact that the bonds played

ambush bug in my fault that was awesome you know

steve you've seen outside of uh... and and and

i know you've seen batman from super plan x or

whatever that's what's called kevin garner using

any of the in the other ones yet what some of

the uh... the brain the bold i am I actually

have one of the seasons, the first season, so

I've actually watched it. It's not too bad. I

was quite impressed with it. I was expecting

it to be terrible, but I was actually pleasantly

surprised. television animation, the cartoons,

the actual cartoons, we have Beware the Batman.

Now, this is a series that Cartoon Network dicked

around and dicked around and dicked around, and

it is now getting its final episodes done through

Toonami at 3 a .m. on Saturday mornings. Cartoon

Network, you screwed the pooch again. Yep. When

don't they? Yeah, we'll have to revisit that

another time. Leave that stupid dog alone. But

we're the Batman. I know a lot of people have

criticized it as far as not having any, you know,

as far as not having Kevin Conroy or any of the

mainstream known voice actors. I don't mind it.

I don't mind the voice of Bruce Wayne Batman

in this. I actually like it because the guy who

voices him, it fits the animation model and that

is one of my biggest complaints. We're not going

to go into talking all about every single Batman

DCIU movie. This is a comics podcast. We're not

going to... it'll be way too much time, but...

What I've come to realize over the years of watching

Batman and animation after the DC animated universe

it really depends on the Animated model as far

as who I like doing a voice for it because there

are several times Didn't dislike his voice work,

but there are several times that I've said Kevin

Conroy should not have been the voice of Batman

here because his style, his Batman, the Batman

we all know and love, does not fit this animation.

Gotham Knight, the Batman Gotham Knight film

is a perfect example because that was six different

animation styles in one damn movie. But when

the Batman, I liked it. I thought it was interesting.

They started off with not your average everyday

rogues gallery villain. I like that, that you

have a build up to to the big guns and and it

just never really because the Cartoon Network

it never really got a chance uh and now they're

just you know they're they're finally giving

us the final episodes but it's like at what cost

i mean seriously come on i'm intrigued by Professor

Pick because i think this is a brand new Batman

villain i think he came out in 07 or 09 I'd have

to look it up. But yeah, he's an interesting

I'm surprised they put him in beware the Batman

same thing with Humpty Dumpty because I read

him in Arkham living hell the graphic novel So

yeah, he's what would you talk about the comic

stories? Yeah, he's a real Sick sob, but yeah,

I think they took a chance by bringing in the

D and F villains and trying to make them a villains

so the only Question that I have and maybe it's

just me. Do you like the CGI animation in? Saturday

morning cartoons because for me, I'm old school.

I like hand -drawn I'm not I'm you know that

the the CGI I just felt the models are not there

Mm -hmm No, I liked it look compared to brave

in the bowl. I'd love to wear the Batman's animation

I'm not saying that brave in the bowl was bad

but it was more that dark, you know, BTAS kind

of style. Sure, it was CGI, but I really dug

it. I thought it was great. Doug, have you seen

Boar the Batman? No, I have not actually had

a chance to, partially because Cartoon Network

has been dicking around with the schedule. It's

not cartoons, but that's, yeah. I probably will

eventually pick it up if it ever shows up on

Netflix or if I find it somewhere. Mm -hmm And

I know Steve you've you have the quote -unquote

season one DVD, right? Yeah, I have season one

volume one. It's actually It's actually really

good. The only problem I have is that Like like

we've already discussed It's Cartoon Network

screwing with the schedule Because I would like

to watch the damn show Yeah, it's actually good

and then they introduced race and then they've

they've tried to break the mold that's going

joker Riddler penguin freeze You know Ivy blah

blah blah there. They're branching out and hitting

these villains that I was not familiar with and

that some of them I find entertaining like professor

pig. I don't really care for but I like anarchy

Yes, yeah, I like anarchy too anarchy is like

uh... anarchy is where the where the batman's

anarchy is like mad stan in batman beyond anybody

else want to talk about where the batman or uh...

well before we go to the comics uh... let's uh...

even though i'm not a big fan of the latest DC

animated universe original film, Son of Batman.

I'm going to give my top three Batman voice actors.

Hopefully you guys can do the same. For me, it's

Kevin Conroy, number one, will never not be number

one. Number two is Bruce Greenwood from Under

the Red Hood. And number three, surprisingly,

is Jason O'Mara from the Justice League War and

Son of Batman animated features. Jason O'Mara,

after watching Son of Batman, his voice really

fits the tone of the new 52 Batman. Steve? Yeah,

I don't mind him as much, but I still like Bruce

Greenwood better than anybody else if I have

the option. I just I I like him better And I

don't mind the guy that that more or less replaces

Kevin Conroy in Arkham Origins either but Bruce

Greenwood's probably my second favorite Besides

to be where the Batman Version Oh Kevin Conroy,

of course Bruce Greenwood And then I have to

throw in Adam West, because, you know, he is

Batman still. Now I should say, when I said top

three voice actors for Batman, I meant Batman

Bruce Wayne, because if I was counting the other

versions, Terry McGinnis would be right up there

for me. Oh, of course. What about you, Jeremy?

Well, for me, it's definitely Kevin Conroy, but

for the movies... For Joker, I'm actually going

to go with Michael Emerson from Dark Knight Returns.

This is just top three Batman. Top three Batman

voice actors. Batman, actual character Batman.

Well, it's got to be Kevin Conroy. Bruce Greenwood.

Yeah, you know what? He worked. And then I'm

actually going to go with, I think, Jeremy Piven

voiced at one point. Not not pivot and sister

sister. That was it. Yeah All right, so we're

gonna take another quick break come back with

comics finally on the comics podcast Mr. Wayne

Mr. Wayne Terry you're hurt just groggy who did

this? It was me Alright, and you've waited this

long to get to a comics discussion on a comic

podcast. I know, ladies and gentlemen, but we

are celebrating 75 years of Batman. And how this

is going to break down is very, very... efficiently,

I should say. Batman should be proud of me for

doing this so efficiently. Where we each started

reading The Bat or The Bat Family? Jeremy, what

was your first Batman story you ever read, whether

it was a trade or a single issue or whatever?

Oh, that's easy. It was when I picked up... greatest

Batman stories ever told this is during Batman

89 and the first story that I read was where

I Can't remember the title of it, but it had

to do with Batman stalking Joe chill and Joe

chill is now aged about 20 years. He's become

a crime boss and What happens is that Batman

decides that now that he's you know, Bruce Wayne

is not Batman. He goes to Joe chills nightclub

and Joe chill is in his office Batman breaks

in and Batman starts telling Joe chill about

the Waynes Batman then removes his cape and cowl

and goes I'm Batman and through this comic book

montage Bruce Wayne is telling Joe chill because

now he's talking as Bruce Wayne saying wherever

you go whatever you do I know you're gonna screw

up I'm gonna be there to bring you in and bring

you in by the book Joe chill gets upset Runs

out of the club across the street to this cab

and he starts telling this cab driver what happened

Well turns out that this cab driver was once

a criminal. He takes Joe chill to a garage and

three other criminals They get upset and they

gun Joe chill down they get trigger happy, but

they're asking Joe chill who Batman is Joe chill

is dying He's about to reveal it Batman's been

following and he beats up the thugs Batman then

talks to Joe chill and Joe says you know what

he turned that okay after all and Joe chill of

course then passes away What about you Steve

what was your first Batman story you ever read?

Nightfall That's a big event yeah, that's a spicy

meatball very spicy What did you like about it?

What? Just tell us your impressions briefly.

Well, I Well for one it's dark as hell but uh,

I Would have to say that The the watching Batman

getting beat down by Bane's you know Master plan

more or less and then having Just just Batman

get his back broken and then having to pass the

mantle on and he doesn't pass it to anybody That's

under his tutelage. He just more or less, you

know picks Azrael to take his place and Eventually

has to fight to get his mantle back by the end

of the whole master saga Mm -hmm. I just I loved

the whole How it how it played out See damn you

Steve cuz that's the same thing that I started

picking up Yeah, just nightfall for sure I mean

I remember the big thing when Bane showed up

and they started talking about him and the whole

venom thing just scared the hell out of me because

here's a guy who's skinny and weak and all of

a sudden he gets pumped up and now he's broken

the bat and just for seeing that and Then of

course seeing Jean Paul Valley coming out and

being Bat -As -Rail, which I liked it and I didn't.

I kept thinking, oh my god, they're bastardizing

Batman and this is where it's gonna go and it's

gonna stay this way. And then to finally see

that hey, Batman, Bruce has gotten his back back

together and he's healed was absolutely mind

-blowing to me to see him come back and fight

for everything. absolutely absolutely um for

me sadly death of the family which is a very

anti -climactic story was the first one that

I really read cover to cover issue by issue there

were a few moments in that was you know Snyder

and cap alone writing an art since I've been

going back in this 75 years of Batman spotlight

and reading some of the older books. Not necessarily

my first exposure to it, but I would say that

year one is up there for me. But yeah my my first

real like I think I most likely next May when

we do Batman month again We're probably gonna

it's probably gonna have to be nightfall month

because there was a cut There was a giant trade

paperback that I had as an eight nine year old

so somewhere around 88 89 That had Batman really

really dark I don't remember what it was. I don't

remember the title. I don't remember who wrote

it I don't remember anything about it all as

I know it was at least three or four inches thick

and It took me forever as a kid to really read

it and it was super dark So I'm assuming it was

nightfall. I don't know but Yeah All right, so

These aren't in any particular order even though

I put mine in order, but we're going to talk

about our five favorite all -time bad stories

They don't need to be trades or single league

could be a combination of both What is your for

the lack of a better term number five Steve of

favorite trades favorite bad stories I would

probably say Death of the Family would be my

number five. What about you, Jeremy? Once again,

as a story, I can't remember the title. It was

from The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told, where

Batman and Alfred are cleaning up the attic.

Batman finds out that Thomas Wayne and Martha

were at the mayor's costume charity. event when

Thomas was kidnapped by a local mobster and Thomas

was forced to Remove a bolt from the mobster.

But of course Thomas knew that if he did that

Then the mobster would have to kill Thomas because

Thomas knew who this mobster was Thomas is able

to botch it and get to the police and Tom and

the mobster, of course fouls revenge. He knows

that it'll be tied back to him, so that's why

he hires Joe Chill because nobody would expect

a common thug to kill the Waynes. Bruce finds

out about this. He tries to confront the mobsters

Batman, but unfortunately the mobster during

a prison riot has suffered amnesia. Bruce then

goes back to the attic and finds out that Thomas

Wayne at the charity event dressed up as, dun

dun dun, a Batman. But the costume is a little

bit different. Bruce Wayne puts on the costume.

He goes back to the mobster. The mobster's memory

is jogged back. The mobster thinks that it's

Thomas and Wayne coming back from the dead. And

the mobster's ran away from Batman, unfortunately,

into the street and gets hit by a car and dies.

And then finally, Bruce Wayne goes to the bat

computer and goes, the death of Thomas and Martha

Wayne, case closed. Hmm interesting All right

What about you Doug number five? Oh Probably

That's gonna be hard. I'd probably have to go

with Dark Knight returns Just cuz it's coming

back. I mean I it's one of my favorites. I liked

it. I don't want to have to criticize it But

it was probably it was probably the worst out

of the five that I really liked So that makes

any sense. I mean come on Batman coming back

Frank Miller did a great job on it Yeah for me

and number five. It's the same. It's start night

right now Let me make this clear ladies and gentlemen

these are just our personal as I said earlier

our five favorite all -time bad stories If you

take the all -time out of there, these are just

our favorites. We're not saying these are a countdown

or anything like that. For me, Dark Knight Returns,

the actual story of Batman being old, not the

whole Joker part of it, but just that first part

of the story, the first half, I liked it. I thought

it was interesting. I hate to say this because

I know I'm... going to sound like a kid of today's

generation. The movie did it so much better.

Oh, it did. It cleaned it up a lot. And it's

mainly because of the art that and that's what

I found out in the in the in the first year and

year and a half that we're into the pullback

gear. I don't like a lot of the older art. I

really don't. I prefer the new today style kind

of things. Steve, you're number four. Um, I'd

probably say quarter vowels Hmm interesting Doug

probably This is tough. It's I'm gonna go with

death in the family Or I'm sorry a death in the

family. Yeah. Yeah, I know what you're talking

about. Sorry Yeah, that's yeah a death in the

family was It the book is the actual comic is

is a lot more twisted than the story We've gotten

under the red hood. Oh, yeah Because in the comic

his mother basically betrays him. Yeah Not good

Jeremy your number four. Well speaking of Frank

Miller in 2005 he worked on all -star Batman

and Robin and This was probably the most screwed

up Comic I ever read I heard about this. I didn't

believe it. But yeah, it deals with Robin who

watches his parents killed in front of him by

hitmen now Batman has taken the Batmobile. He's

chasing Commissioner Gordon and GCPD. He rams

the Batmobile into the GCPD also a sedan killing

Vicky Veil, she dies from injuries. Batman grabs

Robin from the GCPD car and says, okay, listen

to me, little retard. You're going to do what

I say from now on. He pretty much verbally, emotionally,

physically abuses Robin throughout the series.

He says, you've been drafted into a war. So yeah,

it's definitely an interesting read. And for

me, for number four, Year one You know I again

I Hate to say it, but the movie did it slightly

better And it's mainly it's not because of the

story from Frank Miller at all. I love the story,

but it's the art I mean year one the actual not

the actual trade paperback actually puts a lot

of things in perspective that the movie doesn't

and i did like that but um... it's just i don't

know i just i just can't get over not being able

to get into the old art um... alright steve number

three really trying to press me there aren't

you uh... i would say nightfall okay now i have

no idea what you're I have no idea what your

top two are gonna be All right, Jeremy number

three for number three. I'm gonna go back to

the Detective Comics 475 from 476 the laughing

fish Yeah, the animated series was interesting,

but this is a two -parter in the comics and this

one was a lot darker Granted they couldn't kill

people in an animated series. Of course, we found

that later they did but my point being is that

when Joker I love the fact how Joker is just

like moping around because he's not really trying

to poison Gotham this time. He's trying to go

legit, but he has to do it his way, and his way

of doing it is poisoning the fish to make them

smile, but he's now wandering around going like,

well, what if people don't like my laughing fish?

What if they all want to become vegans or vegetarian,

you know? He's just like, he doesn't get why

people don't want the fish. So... It's definitely,

as I said, if you go into Comixology, you know,

for $1 .99 you can get these issues now. It's

definitely a lot more fleshed out than what they

did for, you know, the animated series episode.

Yeah, before Doug goes, I will bring up our buddy

Dave Draper from toyworldorder .com wanted me

to bring up Detective Comics 567. It's a story

where essentially nothing happens. What about

you Doug number three Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry

my mic was damn it more editing for me shit All

right, so I'm gonna have to go with mad love

for number three Just cuz I I love Harley Quinn

you know the fact that this is all about her

and everything that she's done with uh tricking

batman you know basically trying to kill batman

herself without joker and joker just getting

pissed off about it uh that was i i really kind

of like that story and the fact that here it

is and you get to see this twist of how harley

really becomes more of a major character in the

series uh number three for me the court of owls

The Court of Owls is by far still to this day

the best work. Scott Snyder is done writing Batman

and the New 52. It just is. Alright Steve, number

two. Alright. Batman Beyond Return of the Joker

because they actually show what happens to the

Joker. What happens? He gets electrocuted. No,

I'm saying the army that won the tagging. Oh,

really? In Arkham. Oh, wow. And the tombs of

every other bat villain. Interesting. All right,

Tug, number two. Alan Moore is the killing joke.

I'm going to go with that just because we do

see Oracle getting shot, getting paralyzed, Barbara

Gordon becoming Oracle. That was probably one

of my favorites there, just how everything came

together with it. Jeremy number two it breaks

my heart, but Dark Knight Returns is number two

I love how it's a love letter to the 80s I love

how Batman and Joker come out like aging rock

stars who want like one more song I love the

cabbage patch kids, you know because that was

the whole big thing in the 80s They're making

fun of the David Letterman show, they're making

fun of Dr. Ruth, they're making fun of pop psychology,

they're making fun of the media, how they have

to be a lot more hipper. I especially love that

moment between Joker and Batman where it's always

been controversial. Joker's neck and kill him

and the whole monologue that Joker's giving is

just in Batman's mind because why else would

Batman have to destroy the body? Because I'm

sure that Batman doesn't want to know the truth.

I also love the whole Batman Superman fight and

how it kind of ties into the Cold War about how

Batman wants to solve the world's issues and

Superman is just acting like a tool for the government.

There's a lot of symbolism. They never answer

what happened to arrow, but all in all it's definitely

It's still a great read All right for me number

two. Yeah Everybody just show me a great big

smile Course obviously I can't do the Joker,

but the killing joke is number two for me Absolutely

loved it. You know I we just Stephen I just did

the review in episode 72 of the pullback here

inside Batman month I just finally was able to

read it recently It was damn interesting and

It makes it gives even more powerful notes to

Batgirl in the new 52. It's absolutely amazing

how they sneakily kept that in even though everyone

says oh it's not in continuity anymore but it

is um all right number one steve what is your

number one the dark knight returns mostly because

you actually see batman and superman fight now

i will say that it is very cluttered it is very

difficult to read based on the art and direction

that it goes, the animated feature did much,

much cleaner and clearer effects to it. I love

the translation from that, but having just picked

that up about a year and a half ago, I really

enjoy it. But to me, it's that whole... and part

of the book is my favorite, just the battle of

Batman setting up to whoop Superman's ass and

then having Arrow, you know, essentially playing

a part in it because it more or less indicates

that Superman cut his arm off. Mm hmm. So he's

getting his little revenge, but. I don't know.

I can't remember right now if it if it actually

showed what happened to him in the comic But

I know in the animated feature. He's down in

the new Batcave with Batman and his cronies But

I loved it Awesome. What about you Jeremy number

one? Well, I was gonna give a tie but I'm just

gonna stick with just one solid number one and

that is the killing joke What else can I say

other than I love the opening how Batman is trying

to talk to the Joker and reason with him and

say, we don't have to kill each other. How will

this all end? And it ends with a joke. And I

love the joke where it's like with the flashlight

and one inmate says, okay. Flash the flashlight,

you know from one building to another and I'll

walk across and the second inmate says no I don't

trust you because I'm sure if you go across and

I start to walk You're gonna turn the flashlight

off and Batman and Joker just start laughing

at it. I don't know if it's supposed to mean

that You know Batman someone's supposed to be

holding the flashlights gonna turn off or Joker's

gonna hold the flashlight and turn it off I'm

not too sure but there's just something about

the artwork You don't know where the story's

going. I love how, in Joker's mind, how he's

trying to go back what made him the Joker, because

in his mind, he's trying to feed his wife and

child, and he gave up his job as a chemist, and

now he has to become the Red Hood, and it's like,

it's the best line. You know, sometimes I remember

it this way, sometimes I remember it that way,

and it's all multiple choice, and one bad day

will drive you insane. It's definitely one of

the greatest pieces of bat literature that I

ever read. And I just love the cover, where he

just holds the camera and goes, smile. So he

really does his best to drive Gordon Stark raving

mad by what he did to Barbara and other things

that he could have done to Barbara. So hands

down, yeah, number one. Have you guys seen the

Megatron homage cover with him holding Reflector

in the same way? No. It's, I'll have to look

for it on Google for you guys. It's, they basically

transformerized the killing joke. This is very

awesome. Number one for me, it has to go to my

roots with Batman in animation. The current run,

2012 to now, Batman Beyond, first run done by

Adam Beechin in writing and second run done by

Kyle Higgins. The only reason why I have it as

my number one favorite right now is because we

all grew up on the animated series, and I love

Batman Beyond. The events of the Batman Beyond

current series that have taken place since two

years ago takes place between the events of Return

of the Joker and Epilogue. So you have stories

in between there that are going on. Between Adam

Beachman on writing and then now Kyle Higgins

on writing They are adding so much richness to

the DC animated universe Yep, that's my number

one We are gonna take a quick break. You're gonna

hear some audio and ads and other stuff and we're

gonna come back with one final blitz topic and

Then that'll be it for the pullback episode 75.

We'll be back after this. It's true, Batsy. I

know everything. And kinda like the kid who peeks

at his Christmas presents, I must admit, it's

sadly anti -climactic. Why is the Joker always

gonna trip me up, dammit? Stupid fish -head wannabe.

Anyway, Doug, what is your number one favorite

Bat story? Gotta be Nightfall. Gotta be Nightfall.

Probably because it was the very first one I

ever read. It was I mean it was just everything

thrown together for it Seeing Bane and Bane just

being this evil new guy coming in. I mean just

this villain and just It was awesome All right,

and the final topic I would Steve get his timer

ready for the blitz here, but I don't think he

has it on him The final topic here in the pullback

episode 75 Batman pre new 52 versus post new

52 Two points that you like either way or two

points that you don't like either way Okay Jeremy

you first Well what I like about new 52 is that

for someone who wanted to start all over again

it actually is not a bad way to restart the series.

I like what they're doing with Harley, as I've

said over and over again. I liked the arc of

Death of the Family. I like the Detective Comics

series. I subscribe to several comics in the

New 52. As for post goes, well, again, I go back

to, I guess, comicology, where I can just search

and... I mean, the artwork, for some people,

it hasn't aged well. It depends if you were born

in that time period, but... There's some good

writing here and there, but I have to go right

now between the both. It's 50 -50, but I'm more

and more impressed now with what they're doing

with New 52. I think the writing is definitely

tighter, much, much, much more tighter, and I

love Gail Simone. Absolutely. Steve, what about

you? For New 52, I like some of the individual

sagas better. I also like some of the characterizations

better As far as people that have showed up briefly

in the new 52 Into the new 52 that I do not like

the damaged continuity Which I have stated time

and time again And then I really enjoy the art

Yeah Doug what about you? I'm gonna take a hit

for this I haven't read anything post New 52

so I really couldn't answer I'm gonna say hey

pre 52 new 52 is great Having read a bit of both

I find that anything that isn't before anything

that's before 1999 I'm going to have a problem

with anything from 99 to whatever now is that's

it's fine with me I love the killing joke I really

do I loved love Nightwing when it was still being

published. I'm not too thrilled with what they're

going to be doing with Dick Grayson now. Snyder's

Batman, like I said earlier, Court of Owls is

the best arc so far. I'm interested to see where

they go after this because I've seen several

of the solicitations for after the zero year

origin crap. And I love Simone's Batgirl series.

That is by far so I you know I said on the on

the Batgirl volume one coverage here inside the

pull bag 75 years of Batman with Brian Ward and

dr. Andrea Lettamendi From the Arkham Sessions

it Batgirl by Simone is not just a superhero

book. It's a psychological superhero book because

It's very very deep writing and it's absolutely

amazing Alright, I think that's gonna do it for

us here inside the pull bag. That's gonna do

it for this third week of coverage Coming up

next week. We have cord of owls city of owls

and death of the family to cap it all off for

75 years of Batman For now, I am TFG Michael

with I don't gal cast Jeremy fine talking about

my generations Doug Abel Steve Megatron Phillips

Alright, we will catch you next time. Make your

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