Batman: The Killing Joke Review

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in You. Welcome to The Pole Bag. Join us as we

dig out our latest comics and discuss them with

a rotating panel of the GCRN crew. So sit back

and enjoy this week's Pole Bag. Hello and welcome

to The Pole Bag. This is episode 72. We are continuing

on with the 75 years of Batman spotlight. 10

podcast episodes in one month. Yep, that's right,

folks. All right, tonight I am joined by Steve

Jokatron. Hello, sir. Oh, yes. I am, of course,

your host, TF2, and Mike, and tonight we're going

to be talking about a very, very epic, epic story

done by Alan Moore. And who else? Scott is sad

that I don't even remember Alan Moore and Brian

Boland it is called the killing joke One bad

day according to the grinning engine of madness

and the mayhem known as the Joker That's all

that separates the sane from the psychotic Freed

once again from the confines of Arkham Asylum,

he is out to prove his deranged point, and he

is going to use Gotham City's top cop, Commissioner

Jim Gordon, and his brilliant and beautiful daughter

Barbara to do it. Now Batman must race to stop

his arch nemesis before the Reign of Terror claims

two of the Dark Knight's closest friends. Can

he finally put an end to the cycle of bloodlust

and lunacy that links these two iconic foes for

it leads to its fatal conclusion? And as the

horrifying origin of the Clown Prince of Crime

is finally revealed, will the thin line that

separates Batman's nobility and the Joker's insanity

snap once and for all? Legendary writer Alan

Moore redefined the superhero with Watchmen and

V for Vendetta. In Batman the Killing Joke, he

takes on the origin of comic's greatest supervillain,

the Joker, and changes Batman's world forever.

Now, I've heard about this story for years, ladies

and gentlemen. Are you done? Yes. Okay, good.

I've heard about this story for years, ladies

and gentlemen. I have never had the privilege

to read it until now, and I have to thank GCRN

superfan listener Mike Carvalho for actually

sending me his copy of the hardcover's deluxe

edition of the book. I will say that the cover

is very iconic. It is basically the Joker with

a camera. um in his little top hat and it says

smile um now on the inside of the hardcover some

really awesome designs on the front it is black

and purple with batman and the joker being purple

a black background and ha ha ha ha ha all over

it with black outlines on the back of the book

If you remove the slipcover, there is a playing

card where you see the Joker and Batman on equal

sides, like you would see a face card, basically.

But the Joker is on one end and Batman is on

the other. The reason why I bring up the back

of the book in the hardcover edition is because

the new 52, Batgirl Number 15, actually... kind

of replays this image where the cover of that

issue was At the time during the death of the

family storyline the Joker was going to marry

bad girl um... and uh... you see her in a wedding

veil and you see him in kind of like a groomsman

kind of design but it has that whole card motif

i absolutely love when they do this this is one

of the best images i've ever seen as a comic

cover very very very cool so alright when did

you first read the killing joke i had never read

it Really? Yes. I well the thing was is I could

never get my hand on a legit copy And in mind

you I still don't have a legit copy, but I would

like one No, cuz I mean I I would I For being

such an iconic story like this. It's one of those

ones that I know you have to own It's like the

Dark Knight returns, but for the Joker Yeah But

yeah, I mean this was just an amazing, amazing

read. This might be my favorite story out of

all the stuff, all the classic Batman stories

we've covered so far in the Batman spotlight

here in the pull bag. This might be my favorite

out of all of them altogether. It's absolutely

brilliant. The trade opens where you see the

Joker's eyes. It's just a black background And

it's the Joker's eyes. You don't see his smile.

You don't see anything else The cover the the

inside where the information is you see the Joker

holding his hands to his head and He's he's just

crazy and deranged you see Commissioner Gordon

Uh, Commissioner Gordon's forehead in the bottom

left hand corner. There is an introduction here

by Tim Sale. That was a really interesting introduction.

Um, and then we open up to the story where it's

Batman coming into Arkham. He passes, uh, Harvey

Dent. he passes name unknown that's don't get

me wrong folks I get it Tim Burton had to give

Jack Nicholson Joker a name because most mainstream

audiences wouldn't get why he doesn't have a

name but name unknown is how you're supposed

to do it and Batman is coming to see the Joker

and At first when I first read this I thought

it was going to be The darker Batman and it kind

of is a little bit It's not blue and yellow it's

blue gray and black so that's that's nice so

he goes to see the Joker and They're basically

you know Batman's basically saying I don't fully

understand why ours should be such a fatal relationship,

but I don't want your murder on my Hands and

Batman has some white stuff on his hands and

come to find out It's not the Joker It's A look

-alike that he dressed up as himself so the Joker

has escaped What do you think of the art in this

um actually not that bad I I like the attention

to some of the detail I mean it's it's still

got that 80s style to it but you can see the

creases in Batman's eyes when he's squinting

and you can see the detail of the teeth and the

pupils and the eyes of the the fake Joker and

you know the headline the headlines and it's

just the the attention to detail is is all there

What do you think of the Joker design in this

one? It's a bit strange It's a bit strange It's

it's well, I mean it's hard to go back and look

at this look at the Joker because I'm used to

the animated stuff I'm used to the modern granted.

I'm not thrilled with the concept of him ripping

his face off right later on but I Mean it's not

that bad. I've seen worse ones since this time

era So they could do a lot worse. I love it.

I think it's a... Joker in Batman the Animated

Series, he's kind of got that pointy nose and

pointy chin. So I think this is more of a rounded

way to show that type of his design. I like it

a lot. I think it really shows off one of the

best versions of Joker ever that we've ever had.

I would say this, the DC Animated Universe, all

different versions of the Joker from DC Animated

Universe, and then Death of the Family Joker

are my three top favorites. But in this we get

the origin of the Joker, and it is so... So,

such amazing storytelling. Yeah. What did you

think of the, of his origin story here? Uh, it's

kind of, kind of interesting. I mean, you never

really get to see some of the craziness that

goes through his, his head. Right. Yeah. because

it starts off uh... before we get to the flashback

and starts off uh... you you really want to buy

it and the price i mentioned isn't too steep

too steep my dear sir as i look at it i'm making

a killing and anyway money isn't really a problem

not these days And then it goes back into the

origin. And we see that he was, you know, originally

just a regular old kind of guy. Had a wife who

was pregnant. You know, I really, really like...

Because to me, you know, the Joker is... someone

who got his face bleached and acid I'm not saying

he needs to have a name or not that's just what

I know of his origin and seeing it here and seeing

how it's told here is very very awesome what

did you think of the trick that he plays on the

guy who he's trying to who wants to sell him

the the the amusement park I almost couldn't

I I almost didn't see it coming but I I come

to expect it especially around this time even

though it's not the joy buzzer it's the needle

yeah it's the needle poisoning the guy instead

giving him the crazy Joker grin so I saw it coming

and it's it's it's funny but it's It's I mean

it's predictable of the Joker. I mean back then

it probably wasn't but See this is the thing

like I haven't Outside of death of the family

and outside of like Batman under the Red Hood.

I haven't seen a lot of Joker stuff recently

You know I still have yet to see Dark Knight

Returns part two. I know I need to see that and

that's That's on me. I need to watch that thing

but So Bruce goes back to the cave and he talks

to Alfred And it's interesting to see and this

is what I like about this. This is this is kind

of what I was expecting some of the other Batman

stories that I've read to be. I wasn't really

expecting the blue and gray so much, and he kind

of... I mean, the blue is almost black when you

see him with Alfred in the cave, at least the

cape anyway. Well, it's the colors from the TV.

Yeah, it's the way the colors are being done.

So we then go to... Well, I love how how Bruce

here in the cave Mm -hmm is so bothered Yeah,

by the fact that he doesn't know who the Joker

is and then he he says how can two people hate

so much without knowing each other and Alfred

just kind of wandering away like I don't know

And then we go to the house of Barbara and Commissioner

James Gordon And, you know, just one bad night

can change a person. Well, did you see the article

that's in the beginning of Gordon's scrapbook?

Yeah. And, um, the image is the first original

image of Batman on the very first issue of Detective

Comics that had Batman in it. No, Detective 27.

Yeah. Says, hey, look at this one. First time

they met. Now what year was that? Yeah And this

is the storyline where Barbara is isn't she a

librarian in this I think so just yeah And she

This is really what bothers me about sometimes

Women or children answering a door This is the

exact thing that bothers me because you never

know who's gonna be behind that door Yeah, you

know Any parent that would send their kid to

open their door? Open their home door or their

apartment door or whatever for somebody that's

just a coward or just lazy That's just my personal

opinion So Barbara goes to the door and it's

the Joker and he shoots her. Now at this point

was she Batgirl? I don't know. Because like I'm

not asking this just because I'm ignorant about

some of the older comics. I'm asking this because

it doesn't actively say anything before she gets

shot of... Whether she's bad girl or not So she's

lying there And she goes what why are you doing

this to prove a point here's to crime And then

after that we basically have more of the Joker's

origin Where he was Kind of the fall guy Yeah,

basically they basically put him in the red hood

suit You know with the giant hood and He turns

into the fall guy for them Very very again Interesting

stuff. Yeah, but I mean it's funny because stupidly

he does it Yeah, because they're like, you know,

they'll never know who Who you are. Yeah Now

how long like for this story we know that the

Red Hood doesn't last too long but or there ever

moments of like in Batman comics where the Joker

The guy that was supposed to turn into the Joker

was he ever Red Hood longer than what this portrays?

I'm not sure So we go back to the hospital where

Barbara was shot She says Bruce it was him he

took dad. Oh God. Oh God. I remember. Oh Bruce

what he did so She must have been back girl already

if she knows She's calling him Bruce and he's

Batman. So she must have already been back. That's

what I'm kind of assuming from the pages. Yeah.

Well, you know what? A nice little narration

or a nice little blurb in the beginning before

she got shot. Would have been nice. Like to say,

meanwhile, Commissioner Gordon in Batgirl's house

or you know something something to let the audience

know that she is still Batgirl that she's not

just Barbara Gordon I Think that's the only complaint

I had that in the ending of the story or really

the only complaints I have So we get to the amusement

park where the Joker is basically Torturing Gordon

basically strips the poor guy naked pretty much

You oh no, I remember remember oh I wouldn't

do that Remembering is dangerous. I find the

past such a worrying anxious place the past tense

I suppose you could call it ha ha ha ha What

do you think of the art on his face in that panel?

He just looks like, downright scary. Almost like

the clown from IT. Kiss me, fat boy! This is

the only thing I remember from that movie. Yeah,

that's the only thing I remember from IT. So,

after this we go back to the bar and grill. Where

you have, uh... the gang kind of going over stuff

and uh... they basically say yes yes i get the

picture and they basically turn him into the

joker uh... again i love the art in this this

is exactly the kind of art that i want to see

from old batman stories every panel That's just

absolutely amazing And we get to the fact that

he is torturing Gordon I mean he's Because he

didn't just kill her he did well He didn't kill

her, but he didn't just shoot her and injure

her for life at this point He sat there after

the fact and took a whole bunch of naked pictures

of Barbara and he is sitting here torturing Gordon

with them, showing her father her naked pictures

after she was shot. We all know that the Joker

is a psychotic murderous fuck, but this just

takes it to a whole new level for me. Like, this

is just, oh my god, and I really kind of wonder.

And Steve's probably gonna scoff at this. I really

kind of wonder anyone who can really be a true

fan of this character after reading this story.

Well, it depends on the iteration of the character.

Right, I understand that. But he is just one

sick bastard. He is. Very much so. I love that

the poster that's hanging up says dangerous student

approach. Yeah, yeah. So Batman goes on the hunt

for the Joker and We have the use of the bat

signal and Batman gets a letter now. Okay, I'm

gonna nitpick a little bit here The Joker actually

took the timeout to Make this little card that

has the bat symbol on it really I'm not gonna

take away from it like I'm not gonna do I'm not

gonna lower my grade on this story or that or

this This trade just because of that, but I find

that a little ironic that The Joker would take

the time to artistly put the bat symbol plus

his own face on a little white card. So he sends

the little ticket to Batman and once again the

art in this is absolutely fantastic. I really

really dig it. It almost reminds me of stuff

of today. It really really does. We get more

flashbacks to the night that The guy who will

be the red hood will then become the joker. There,

you still see okay, man? Well, yeah, I guess,

except everything's red. It's kind of stuffy,

too, and smells funny. Does my voice sound echoey

to you? Now, what do you think of that panel

where it's him looking out of the hood and it

looks like he sees two jokers? I don't I don't

really know what to think Cuz I well what after

he puts the hood on you see that panel of the

black background and the two eye lids I thought

that The two guys oh no wonder they look like

jokers through the eyelids because they're dressed

up like jokers, okay see I thought they were

just two regular guys but they have the white

paint on and green hair so we've got the red

hood bombing around the police or the security

guys come in and all hell breaks loose basically

and then he falls into a pit of acid And, uh,

it's not... not a good thing. Uh, it's a very

interesting transformation. Because you can see

the beginnings and then you see that final, kind

of, ha -ha -ha -ha -ha -ha -ha page with him

with his hands on his head. And, man, is this...

is this joke creepy as all hell? Yeah, I've seen

a picture with him holding his head. his gloves

in them yeah it's really really creepy we go

back to the present day and the Joker is still

torturing Gordon and he's got all these other

people in there with him and we have an appearance

of a bat -faced Batmobile Gotta say with this

mod. I know this was still the 80s. I think wasn't

this 86 88 88 okay, I know this was still the

80s, but I'm sorry I don't like the bat -faced

Batmobile in this I wish there was something

a little bit more modern I wish maybe that the

movie producers would have leaked the 89 Batmobile

design to them to put in this it just Don't know

it just it just doesn't look like a true batmobile

to me I Love Batman's design though because he

kind of looks like the devil. Hello. I came to

talk Absolutely love that And it's him and the

Joker basically conversing and then he they basically

get into a fight the Joker sprays some stuff

on him and we have all this monologue and the

Joker gets away Batman goes to free Commissioner

Gordon and we see that Batman versus the Joker

is not over What do you think of that, um, that

bottom panel there? God, you make me want to

puke with Batman running away or running towards

the Joker. What do you think of that silhouette?

I think it's kind of funny. It's kind of awesome.

The cape actually makes the bat logo. Well, it

should. Well, yeah, it should. Um, what do you

think of the story so far with Batman confronting

the Joker? Not bad. I mean, I like the fact that

there's an origin story. It shows why he kind

of lost it and why he joined up with the Red

Hood gang to begin with. But it also shows that

he just lost his marbles. Yeah. And I really

do love that the Joker constantly tries to make

Batman laugh in this. Like, he is trying so hard.

You know, it's like amateur comedy hour at a

nightclub or something Absolutely love it. I

love Batman's response though when he busts through

the glass When Joker asked him why aren't you

laughing? Because I've heard it before and it

wasn't funny the first time Yeah, and I love

the I love the images for the fight scene here

absolutely amazing art the two of them as they're

fighting the designs such classic classic designs

on these characters absolutely love it we even

have a click click click gag Was hoping it would

have said bang bang bang I really was like I

don't mind that it's a gag and I don't mind that

he says God damn it. It's empty. I Think that's

kind of funny But I just wish it would have said

bang bang bang is all and I know that's a little

nitpick on my part Did you not like the click

click click gag, oh no, I liked it That's actually

something I would expect out of him in the games.

I like when he says, why don't you kick the hell

out of me and get a standing ovation from the

public gallery. And then Batman says, because

I'm doing this one by the book and because I

don't want to. So then the joker goes through

and tells this one last joke and So I'm actually

gonna read this panel by panel folks cuz this

is one of the weirdest things for the ending

for me anyway See where these see there were

these two guys in a lunatic asylum and one night

they decide they Decide they don't like living

in an asylum anymore They decide they're going

to escape. So they get up onto the roof, and

they're just across the yard a gap. They see

the rooftops of the town stretching away in the

moonlight. Stretching away to freedom. Now the

first guy, he jumps right across with no problem.

But his friend, his friend dare not make the

leap, you see. You see, he's afraid of falling.

So the first guy has an idea. He says, hey! I

have my flashlight with me. I'll shine it across

the gap between the buildings so you can walk

along the beam and join me. But the second guy

just shakes his head. He says, uh... He says,

what do you think I am, crazy? You turned it

off when I was halfway across. I... I don't find

this joke funny. Neither did Batman. Well, he

did because he kind of he said hey he kind of

laughed and it shows him smiling So the Joker

is laughing laughing laughing and I guess I Guess

Batman knocks him out because we see nothing

but puddles of rain afterwards Well, actually

it's showing blood. Oh Is it? Yeah, that's what

that red is with the rain See I'm not seeing

red. I'm just seeing it's like an orange Yeah,

see on mine. It shows it as black. It doesn't

show it as I Don't know that's that's weird,

huh? But okay blood and that's how the story

ends And then you have a kind of like an afterword

here from Brian Bolan And then you have what

I assume is another Yeah, right you have a story

from Brian Boland which I believe is something

completely separate from the killing joke I Would

have to look and see what's actually in this

But the Joker is kind of right one bad day. I

don't think he's right in the sense of One bad

day is gonna set you off to lunacy the way it

did him Because something really really horrific

happened to him that day, but there are times

where one bad day can really ruin Someone's week

or month or whichever you'd like Overall, I absolutely

love the killing joke I Love it even more now

because of how they revived Barbara in the new

52. I know a lot of people loved her as Oracle,

I did too. But I like the fact that Gail Simone

explained that she went to therapy, that she

could actually get physically better to become

Batgirl again. Beginning I believe it's this

either the zero issue or the number one issue

of the 2011 Batgirl ongoing It does actually

show the Joker in this style this design With

the Hawaiian shirt you know she was like I had

one bad day once and But the killing joke might

be For the old continuity might be the best Batman

story I've ever read at this point It really

might be I Don't know if it's the best one I've

ever read Mm -hmm, but it's it's among the best

ones Yeah Well, I think we're gonna take a quick

break we're gonna come back with final thoughts

and ratings after this A countdown of victims

that will end at midnight, unless our dear Dark

Knight stops me first. Hello Gotham, Joker's

back in town. Alright folks, we are back here

on the pull bag. What are you going to rate this

one and give your final thoughts overall on the

writing and the art? I'd probably give it a four

out of five stars just because I like the backstory

I like how they explain why he kind of went into

the Red Hood gang to do this job to get money

because he didn't have a job and he was trying

to provide for his wife and his unborn child

and then the things that kind of pushed him when

they died And he decided not he didn't want to

do it, but they're like, no, you're doing it.

And, you know, the whole aspect of Batman. So,

I mean, he's had just a shitty life. Yeah. And

it explains that perfectly. But you also have.

You know, the pure evil of this guy now that

he's the Joker. to bounce off of so I mean it's

yeah it's overall pretty good I mean I again

it's not one of my favorites but it's it's definitely

very well written yeah I absolutely love it like

I said the the writing the art All of it together

in one package sure I had those little nitpicks,

but I'm not gonna take points off just for nitpicks

And they were so trivial at that for me I Think

I'm gonna give it a five out of five perfect.

I really and like With some of the other bad

stuff we've done or that we will do there are

times where as I'm reading them I find myself

having to stop After a certain chapter is over

and then put it down and come back to it later

this I Read this in one sitting. I actually read

this twice. It was it was so good So I'm gonna

give it a five out of five Coming up on the poll

bag next time around Steve and I'll be back when

we talk about a death in the family So, where

can the people find you online, sir? SCP -21?

I am also on Twitter at THUM. You can also follow

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