Batman: The Dark Knight Returns Review

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in You. Welcome to The Pole Bag. Join us as we

dig out our latest comics and discuss them with

a rotating panel of the GCRN crew. So sit back

and enjoy this week's Pole Bag. Hello and welcome

to The Pole Bag. This is episode 71 continuing

on in the 75th anniversary Bat Spectacular here

inside the Pole Bag in this May... 2014 and this

time around we're going to be talking about the

classic Batman the Dark Knight Returns by Frank

Miller with Claus Jansen and Lynn Varley I'll

say again like I said last time with year one

I've seen the film the animated movie but I've

only seen since they split it up into two parts

I've only seen part one which is basically Batman

versus the Mutants. I will say of part one, it

was epic. It was awesome for someone who had

never read the story before. It was wonderfully

done. I see now, looking at this book, why they

went with the former RoboCop to voice Batman

in this. It was absolutely awesome. Yeah, I definitely

concur. But at the same time this book is a lie

In a place yes in certain places Because the

trade you open it up and it has in like Maybe

it's just because it's a oh God not not sepia

tone I might be I don't know you know that that

photo effect where it's green. Yes in the background.

I don't know if that's don't have the names of

the damn things but it's basically Batman in

all black and gray with a green background where

it says okay and then you open to the back of

the trade and it's the Joker in that same style

and I thought oh okay cool this is gonna be black

and gray Batman this is good I like this and

I should have known from having watched the film

that it wasn't going to be that at all In the

in the trade you have a little introduction by

Jimmy Olson, which is interesting to say the

least for this It's actually an introduction

by Frank Miller, but he's using Jimmy as the

yeah Yeah, he's using Jimmy I I like it. I think

it's interesting and we have book one the Dark

Knight returns Now when I always heard of the

story, I thought it was not necessarily and This

was not like any time recently. This was like

back when I was a kid I always heard of the story

and like oh Batman went away somewhere. Where

did he go? What was he doing? like I didn't realize

that it was old Batman and as I said I mixed

up this in year one and this is where I have

the problem with the art and the layouts now

I know one of our super fans Jeremy Fine is probably

going to be screaming at me at some point about

this it has nothing to do with the the narrative

of the story has nothing to do with how the story

is it has nothing to do with the story that is

told it has to do with how it is told and as

you said last time with uh with year one this

is told by television this to me does not work

in a comic medium not the way they do it here

i it's it's kind of a toss -up for me I want

this at the same time. I like it. I don't like

it. I think I think in the aspect of the comic

I Think it's it's almost a failed attempt. Mm

-hmm But as far as The actual animation yeah,

I like it better there Yeah, see in the movie

it works but here and I know people are probably

gonna say oh stop comparing the movie to the

comic and Blah blah blah just read the comic

and form your opinion on that and as I said last

time with year one I didn't watch Dark Knight

returns part one again before reading this I

went into this cult like I saw Dark Knight returns

when it first came out to digital You know However

long ago that was last year or something or other

or might have been a year before I don't remember

And you know I saw it. I liked it. It was interesting.

I thought it was really cool and One of the main

complaints everyone usually has about that film

is that Batman doesn't do his monologue I actually

like that. He doesn't do his monologue in the

film because It's not the monologue itself. It's

how it's presented in this book because this

was what when when did this come out this it

came out uh i believe in i want to say it was

like uh let's see 86 copyright where's maybe

87 It doesn't give a cut. Oh, yeah, it does.

Oh, wow. Well this Maybe the note it was 86 Originally

published in single magazine form is Batman the

Dark Knight returns 1 to 4 copyright 1986 DC

Comics all rights reserved But see that's the

thing year one was done in 86 so Why is the style

from year one and this completely different I

Think because they were going for something completely

different. Hmm. That's probably true So Batman

is basically retired Batman has gotten old that

man needs a cane Because that's how he's getting

along these days And Yeah, I Don't know man It's

gonna be hard for me I think we just need to

discuss this one because it's gonna be hard for

me to To go page by page or every couple of pages

because this the way the story is laid out Basically,

this is Batman coming back wanting to you know

revitalize himself and seeing that his city needs

him once more and In the first I think what is

it the first two books the first three books.

It's all about Batman versus the mutants It is

but it's also him He's he's basically trying

to have that send -off. He's lost all Mm -hmm

all the thrill of life mm -hmm, so he's he's

kind of fighting to regain that and I think that

part of what happens is he's Like as you see

in the very beginning. He's in a race car. Yeah,

and He you know is trying to essentially, you

know push it to the limits and he's wearing a

Batman esque Robo cop helmet yeah, and you know

they're insinuating he wants to kill himself

and you know he's got the mustache and everything

and he's he's just dated and he hangs out with

with Gordon except now he drinks yeah you know

basically say no you were fooling everybody with

your ginger ale and you know so I mean you know

and then again he's going through you know crime

alley and it gets hit up by the mutants and then

he's just watching it all take place on tv and

finally just you know the the batman part of

them snaps and as alfred says sir you shaved

your mustache and then he realizes it's gone

and then it's you know it's like a psychological

snap back to his true self yep absolutely I do

like his narrative in this. I do like his monologue

when he's talking about, oh, you know, I'm just

getting used to this, and oh, this hurts, and

oh, that hurts, oh, I'm sweating like hell. I

can't just say it's the suit because it's not.

I do like how Miller told this story from Batman's

point of view in the fact that this is an old

man in a superhero costume. I do really like

that and I do find it refreshing. And there are

moments in this that I absolutely love the art,

even though it is the blue and gray suit. I absolutely

love some of these moments. The page where his

monologue says this should be agony I should

be a mass of aching muscle broken spent unable

to move That image of Batman jumping through

the air is just simply amazing The race car in

the beginning was that you said it was like Batmobile

esque No, I said the the helmet he's wearing.

Oh that is Batman esque mixed with RoboCop The

race car is like a formula one Okay, see in the

movie they did a formula one race car, but it

looked like a hybrid of of 89 Batmobile and BTIS

Batmobile it really really did At least that's

what I get out of it So Batman is back and You've

got these television people and you've got these

these people on the television need these news

anchors or not even news anchors. They're basically

like You know Sunday morning or you know meet

the press or you know the these political shows

and they're like Batman yay or nay and That's

that's the part of the story that I cannot follow.

I just cannot follow that part of the narrative

I don't know. I do like all the stuff with Gordon

and Bruce. I love that. And we, along the way,

we meet up with the new Robin, Carrie Kelly.

The first girl Robin I think we've ever had.

Because most of the time the girls are bats,

right? Yeah. Bats are birds of prey or something

or other yeah something or other of that there's

there's never been a female I mean well there

was technically a female Robin just not at this

point. Yeah Yeah, I mean She's kind of you know

seeing Batman reappear You know kids a lot has

changed while your old uncle Joe has been away

new Gotham New rules, even a new Batman. It isn't

65 years in the future, but Legends of the Dark

Knight has gone beyond. Batman beyond, that is.

Ah, the new boy. So while she was meeting him

for the first time, it was giving her the need

to more or less emulate Batman and kind of stand

up for the corruption that has been taking place

Under all their noses and with the symbol of

Batman kind of rising back out of it It kind

of gave her the ammunition to dawn the homemade

Robin costume Yeah Because I was like, wait a

second did she break into the cave no, she's

not Terry Now, wait a second here. He didn't

technically break in. No, he just walled straight

in. Well, he was trying to free a bat. So, you

know, if he happens to find a hidden switch that,

you know, turns the clock, you know, inside out,

that's not his fault. What I was saying earlier

about that giant image of Batman with his monologue

there's another one in here in this chapter with

It's after the page where You should probably

know what I'm talking about, but it's after the

page where we meet Carrie Kelly and after more

TV crap Where it's him in shadow, and it's him

in all black Because it because he's in the shed.

I love that. That's one of the coolest things

about this some of this art in here that I absolutely

love is is how they Kind of mix almost all styles

Well, it's it's basically the ultimate Batman

story Yeah, that's very true It's a very very

very cool Cool story. So so we've got Batman

trying to take the city back from the mutants

Robin is helping him and I was really wondering

because like I said earlier, I'd only seen part

one of the film I was wondering how the end of

part one was gonna work up into the Joker and

and Superman and and everything else and I gotta

say, when I was reading through this and I saw

Superman for the first time, I'm like, this reminds

me of that old Grayson trailer, cause Superman

is old. He's not as old as Bruce, but he's friggin'

old. Yeah, they're both kind of old, but at the

same time, Superman still looks a hell of a lot

better. Well, yeah, that's cuz Superman doesn't

need to take painkillers for 90, you know half

his life Yeah, that's true I do love and I and

I am kind of skipping ahead here. I do love Batman's

monologue here. There's just the Sun the sky

and him like he's the only reason it's all here

Then he ruins everything by talking I absolutely

love that Now I did get kind of lost with this

story because I'm trying to figure out what happens

between the mutants and the time Superman and

the Joker show up because it's like I don't know

I read through this I read every word of it.

I just it didn't register with me. Well, essentially

what happens is Batman more or less confronts

the mutants calling them out and They basically

he challenges the leader and He brings his big

mofo tank Out into the battle and he's shooting

rubber bullets To their rubber honest Yeah, he's

in there bouncing off and they're like is that

supposed to hurt me and he's like no and So they

kind of go back and forth in their little You

know argument more or less And Batman essentially

takes down the mutant leader by playing in his

own dirty games, you know, rolling around in

the mud, beating the ever -living daylights out

of this creature on the ground. And so, yeah,

Batman's having fun. For once in his life. And

he's just got this devious grin and he's just

beating the hell out of them. You know, he's

just pummeling the nose and everything and he's

he's getting his body broken and he's getting

beaten with crowbars and everything else and

Batman doesn't actually take him down because

he's beating him like a young man would Like

he used to so Carrie Kelly actually has to save

him and drag him back Yeah to the Batcave so

her and Alfred or patching him up and the mutant

leaders just got a beat -up nose and he's threatened

to beat the cops and do all these other things

and So the Joker's watching, you know everything

and wanting to get on TV so he's somewhat waking

up Because he's in the asylum, but he's perfectly

normal just talking normal and Nothing, you know

nothing nothing is wrong it more or less Bruce

is you know beaten pretty bad his arm is in a

sling. He's got a bloody nose He's watching all

this and Carrie Kelly is walking around the Batcave

looking at the original Robin suit Then they're

talking about you know the mutants and Batman

on TV and everything and Gordon, more or less,

it's his last few days on the job. So Batman

calls in a favor, more or less, with him. And

like, yeah, kind of just let them do their thing.

And Bruce puts on a robotic brace for his arm

so he can still use it. Yeah, and still wage

war he goes out on his bat cycle and has Carrie

Kelly dress as a mutant More or less the screw

with them. Yeah, I love it in the race so the

old commissioners meeting with the new commissioner

and Gordon's more or less like yeah, this is

just kind of what happens and he's he's explaining

about Batman and everything and she's like I

don't care about Batman So Kerry Kelly is setting

the bait for the Mutants and Batman's essentially

going to meet them at their own game by beating

the Mutant leader in the mud. And he's like,

I'll kill you, blah, blah, blah. And so Batman's,

you know, hitting just the right, the right moves

and hitting him in the eye and the face and the

right movements and everything and breaking his

bones and takes him down and so the mutants are

pretty much history so then they don the face

of the batman yeah they all take batman as their

leader at this point yeah gordon retires yendle

takes over um reagan tells superman to take care

of it yeah why is uh selena going around on a

Cosplaying as a Wonder Woman the Joker did it.

Oh Batman that's right. Yeah And then of course,

there's an amusement park the Joker's, you know

killed everybody that He's killed everybody at

the talk show that he managed to get himself

on because he convinced me insane and and oh

follow me and you know, he kills them all and

uses Selena's the another way to kind of putting

another one to Bruce and The new commissioners

chasing Joker and Batman equally Batman gets

shot Joker also gets shot with a battering to

the eye All as I can picture in my head is give

me your face yeah, it's it's more or less that

Batman tells Robin to stay in the helicopter

Awaiting orders and Joker ends up beaten and

paralyzed And he more or less snaps his own neck

Screaming with Bruce. Yeah and then Bruce throws

a thing on him disintegrates his body and Then

has to escape and then he actually holds a gun

Yeah And then the plastique explodes and then

he's able to get away underwater and then he

gets taken away by Carrie Kelly and Superman

is sent in Yep Bruce gets patched up again the

bat people start making their crazy accusations

Superman goes and stops a nuke which sets a giant

blackout of power And Bruce is like Clark you

idiot you let them do it I always knew you would

and So he puts back on the cape and cowl and

then They go to the stables and pick up some

horses. And then he, you know, of course takes

on all of the mutants and the bat people and

Gordon's having to help with a fire in his neighborhood

and you see Superman being basically obliterated

by the nuke and down to like skeletal zombie

remains. Landing in a field he absorbs all the

sunlight energy from everything killing an entire

giant field to grow back and Yeah, then everybody's

pretty much fighting each other Batman takes

control of the situation Makes everybody kind

of join his side You meet Oliver Queen who's

missing an arm Yeah, I was wondering what that

connection was Well, he's good friends with Bruce

for you know, good reason to vigilantes million

billionaires and He escaped from jail Yeah, but

you I find it funny that he says, you know He

says they'd love to frost me long as they can

do it without admitting I exist And then he says

but you Bruce man, they have to kill you and

he's like uh and then Oliver says I always knew

it would come down to you and the school boy

he says when it all comes down I want a piece

of them a small piece will do for old times sake

you know and he points at his arm um meaning

that Superman probably cut it off at some point

yeah and then he leaves him a nice little message

and uh says where and then Bruce says crime alley

And then he starts armoring up setting his big

plan into motion and he's in his robo bat suit

Is basically his Hulkbuster armor? And he's got

a timer going and Alfred's at the Batcave and

it says T minus 11 minutes and 24 seconds to

detonation he's gonna blow up the entire Batcave

and the Wayne Manor and Carrie Kelly is using

the bat tank as bait for Superman. Yeah, I love

that Bat Tank. Between the Bat Cycle and the

Bat Tank, those are the two of the best vehicles

in this. And then this comes my favorite part,

where Batman actually fights Superman. And he

plugs himself into a light post into his metal

armor and electrocutes the crap out of Superman.

Yeah, he does. And then Bruce begins to pummel

him. and Clark rips off his helmet and Bruce

starts throwing stuff at him and he throws stuff

at Bruce and Bruce gets a couple ribs busted

and then they're just waiting for Oliver who

comes out of nowhere of course gets shot by the

cops and he's hanging on and he manages to fire

his bow with his teeth and his one arm and hits

at Superman and then it disintegrates and Bruce

says it wasn't easy to synthesize clerk it took

years and it cost a fortune luckily I had both

and Oliver drops into the tank and they get away

and all Superman is going is Bruce your heart

and Then Bruce says you're beginning to get the

idea Clark. This is the end for both of us He

starts beating the hell out of him because he's

basically mortal from absorbing a bunch of dust

kryptonite Yeah, I was gonna say when you said

it it took him years to synthesize and I'm like,

oh That's kryptonite right there and that was

I Thought there was ingenious on his part Having

it in reserve because you know, he always has

to have a backup plan and oh yeah, so Being that

he can finally beat the hell out of Clark without

being overpowered Because of the kryptonite which

eventually he said will work his way out of his

body it You know he's basically putting Superman

down saying you've become a joke and he says

you don't You want to remember Clark in all the

years to come in your worst private moments?

I want you to remember my hand at your throat.

I want you to remember the one man who beat you

and then Bruce's heart stops and then he falls

over and then Alfred walks outside the Wayne

Manor and dies of a heart attack and Because

you know Bruce is in his you know, 70s or whatever

60s or 70s here I'm guessing 60s but Then Alfred's

got to be in his like 80s or 90s. I would have

thought Alfred would have been dead by now. I

would have thought that too, but Well, because

every time he's shown every time I've seen Alfred

Pennyworth with Bruce I've never seen the young

spy. I've always seen the old retired spy You

know if you go off a lot, okay sure the no -one

verse I guess you could say Michael Cain's Alfred

was a little bit younger than Michael Goff's

in in the Burton films because he was considerably

younger, but like I've never not seen Alfred

You know up until we're the Batman Young so yeah,

I don't know I don't know how Alfred's still

alive at this point But it was interesting because

then you get to see Wayne Manor blow sky -high

And then Clark starts getting defensive of Bruce

with the cops and he says don't touch him Yeah,

and then there it is graven You know the preacher

saying everything and then the news articles

going by saying that the the revelation of Bruce

Wayne is Batman And then it says that mysteriously

all of his belongings and all of his his money

has come up missing And then Selena and Commissioner

Gordon are at the the funeral and she says you

son of a bitch I know who killed him and then

Gordon's like Selena's is no good In the other

in the in the Animated version he says a friend

and then he's Clark says he says I think so and

then Gordon says he says yeah same here, you

know more or less and Clark's the last one sitting

there And you see this one person in a cloak

you can tell tell it's Carrie Kelly Yeah, and

all of a sudden you can start hearing Bruce's

heartbeat kicking back in and Clark looks over

it at Carrie Kelly and she's looking like all

scared and everything and then he just looks

at her and then he smiles and winks and then

walks away And you get to hear that Bruce kind

of narrating, more or less, saying that, you

know, what Oliver said was true, that he needed

to be dead to have his mission continue. And

they have a giant underground bat cave that he

has some of the mutant slash bat people and Oliver

and Kerry Kelly. running in a new bat computer

and power and everything else kicking in. And

he's not in his bat suit, but he's training them

how to become what he's done his entire life.

And then he basically says that this will be

a good life or good enough. Yeah. And then it

ends there, which I think that progressively

through this trade, the art gets better and it

gets clearer. Plus, I think that the story shows

that no matter how old Batman is, His mission

never stops. Right. Well, you know, as Amanda

Waller said it, you know, the world always will

need a Batman. So, you know, she did Project

Batman Beyond, but it's one of those things where.

yeah you're right the art does get progressively

better for me it's just the new the television

news stuff and the talk show stuff that just

can use the crap out of me as far as what pay

even reading left to right it's still confused

the crap out of me because they were so like

together they were so close together in the trade

it has the the original covers Book ones original

cover was that that epic lightning shot of Batman

In silhouette. I absolutely love that. I will

never not enjoy that cover Yeah that cover I

unfortunately my trade does not have that cover

Really? I have a different trade. It's the it's

it's a different cover. There's a newer and an

older version I'm not quite sure which one is

which I'm pretty sure mine is the older one The

original one and it's got the same kind of art

as what's in the inside But I personally love

the the blue with the the lightning and Batman

Yeah flying overhead There's one how the hunt

the Dark Knight book three It's a cover of the

bat signal with Carrie Kelly under it Like it's

shining on a wall It's her under it absolutely

love that The Dark Knight falls is basically

Robo's Robo Batman versus Superman I think that's

a cool cover. I will say what's interesting about

this new trade is the fact that they give you

a The Dark Knight falls a story for 46 pages

by Frank Miller they actually give it to you

in prose form Like it was an actual book versus

in comic form And it's in three acts I absolutely

love that I almost want to read that You know

what I mean? Yeah, you know I honestly think

this trade For me personally, I'm not saying

it's bad. You know, I'm not saying anything against

it. It's just The way it's structured it It's

not even me saying, oh, I prefer modern. It has

nothing to do with that. Just the way the story

is structured within the pages, it just doesn't

work for me. The story itself is great. I absolutely

love the story. But I just can't wrap my head

around the way that it's structured in certain

places. I think for me it's probably gonna get

another three and a half like like Year one did

which is liked it Because I did like it, you

know three and a half is not by any means a bad

mark on our universal rating system And as I

said last time it'll be in the post So you guys

can go and see the explanations of how you know

the star ratings go The story parts of it wowed

me Other parts, it just didn't really do anything

for me. I don't know. I know our super fan Jeremy

Fine said that it's probably one of the greatest

pieces of literature of all time. I could agree

to that if I was reading it as a book. As a comic,

I don't know. I just... It didn't resonate with

me as I thought it would now I'm hoping once

I because I do plan on getting the Dark Knight

Returns deluxe edition on iTunes, which is both

parts of the movie in one shot I do want to watch

them back -to -back to get the feel of the full

animated feature Yeah What about you? What are

some of your final thoughts on this one? I think

that it's a very stellar Batman story. I mean

I When I first read it and and I think that it

helps if you're not a fan of the end of the the

style of Artistry on here. I think it helps seeing

the animated version because it kind of puts

it in perspective And it does add some more story

elements to it But I do say that despite whether

you like the anime the style of the drawing or

not The story definitely had an impact on Batman

For you know even to today. It's still if you

look at this in year one There's elements of

it in Batman Begins the Dark Knight the Dark

Knight Rises of all three I'm not saying that

it didn't have an impact on Batman. That's, I

think, why those were so good. It's because it

had the influence of these comics in them that

helped cement the story of Batman and give it

kind of a real feeling to it compared to how

it turned out. Yeah, no, I'm not saying this

story and year one did not have an impact on

the character of Batman I'm saying that it didn't

impact me the way that it might have impacted

someone that grew up reading it That's what I'm

saying But no, I agree. I mean these two, you

know last time in episode 70 and this time in

episode 71 of the pullback these two stories

are they are iconic I just They just didn't resonate

with me as I thought they would have. I think

the animated features for both resonate with

me more because I'm actually seeing the comic

come to life in an animated form. That makes

sense. I'm just an old fogey, what do I know?

You old fart. All right, we are almost at the

halfway point here for The Batman 75th anniversary

spectacular spotlight month here in the pull

bag Coming up next time will be the killing joke

and then a death in the family And then Steve

and I will go back to finish off, but where the

Batman Chapter 6 through 10, those are in episode

72, 73, and 74 of The Pole Bag. Where can people

get in touch with you if they would so like to?

You can get ahold of me on Twitter at scp21.

And of course you can follow me at TFG1Mike,

you can also follow at GeekCastRadio, and you

can also go to geekcastradio .com. Be sure to

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