IDW TMNT Issues 65 and 66: Holiday Break and Alopex’s Spirit Quest

Hey, this is Tom Waltz, IDW's Teenage Mutant

Ninja Turtle Rider, and you have jumped inside

the pull bag. Hi, this is Bobby Kernow, Chief

Turtle Editor at IDW Publishing, and you are

gonna have a shell of a good time inside the

pull bag. Welcome to the pull bag. Join us as

we dig on our latest comics and discuss them

with a rotating panel of the GCRN crew. So sit

back, Enjoy this week's pull bag Hello and welcome

to episode 151 of the pull bag here on the geek

cast or your network I am your host if you and

Mike and joining me for the first time in what

seems like forever Is my TMNT cohort Joe Reed.

Hello, sir Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, we did Batman

TMNT adventures back in Batman month. So that's

been about well, this is this is Yeah, this is

turtles coming back and this is sewer surfing

September. So even though we're recording this

in July This won't actually air until September.

So technically yeah, it's been a long time And

the last Yep, and the last turtles thing we did

that was not That was main continuity was the

street phantoms arc, which was ages ago, so So

yay, we are here for turtles. We've had so many

theme months this year Inside the pull bag starting

in April with Autobot Lee April talking more

IDW transformers comics then in May we had our

traditional Batman month coverage where we talked

about mostly Batman Beyond stuff outside of the

Batman TMNT adventures, which Joe and I just

mentioned Let's see here in June Steve and I

did the Robin Hood Xenoscope series for June

and then we had gem gem in July for IDW's gem

uh... stuff in july auto bali august was last

month more transformers comics from idw we talked

about the autocracy trilogy uh... sins of the

wreckers uh... angry birds transformers and other

stuff uh... and now in september we're going

to be going sewer surfing so yeah i have not

read a turtles comic in what seems like forever

Because I only read them when we're gonna...

I'm not like Joe, folks. Joe is... He's more

diehard than me. He goes to the comic shop and

once he gets his issue, he sits in the car for

15 or 20 minutes reading it and then takes it

home and puts it in a sleeve and leaves it alone

for seven months. I can't... Because I'm reviewing

the comic... I can't not already know what's

like I can't have already read it Recently like

that's why I read them right before I review

them So it's fully fresh in my mind and I have

a fresh take on the whole thing So we are here

to talk about issues 65 and 66 tonight here in

September Issue 65 was a holiday issue for the

Turtles. What do you think about them doing a

holiday special? I Didn't think it was necessary

when that was coming out. I was kind of like

hey That's weird that they're doing this like

Christmas issue and it's gonna kind of step to

the left of commentary of continuity They're

gonna do something weird with it so I Man, I

didn't know why they needed to why they bothered

what was going on, but You know opinions do things,

you know, I'm comfortable thinking ahead of time

that based on my Initial reaction that things

are gonna suck and I'm comfortable with that

Because I know that if they actually don't suck

that I'm open -minded enough to like oh, yeah,

I was wrong about that this is one of those instances

where Like why are they bothering? What are they

doing? Is this gonna another book in there? And

it'll go in my not in the main continuity bin,

but but no it you know My opinion changed We'll

talk about that. I suppose we get into it. Yeah,

absolutely. This is one of those things where

It's kind of like That one issue a while ago

when I think it was issue 51 or 52 or like right

after Big issue 50 when Donnie came back and

Shredder died and all that, where Mikey was done

with everything. And he, instead of going with

the Foot Clan and with this Master Splinter and

the Turtles, he went back to the Seward layer,

the church, not Seward layer, I'm sorry, Bobby,

Tom, and Kevin, the church basement layer thing.

And he's gonna be on his own and then it you

know at some point during that arc. They had

an issue. I think it was 54 maybe I could be

wrong. I don't know it's been a while folks Where

they kind of had like this little break? Where

the turtles all came back and they all had pizza

and that's kind of thing and that's the way I

look at this You know this is we do in the continuity

of the series The Street Phantoms are just wrapped

up and issues 65 and 66 which we'll talk about

later to me they are continuity driven but they

are also standalone stories to kind of it's kind

of like the the lull before the storm kind of

thing or like this is the the Reward or the break

that we get to take from the really heavy heavy

action of everything that's coming before and

everything that's going to come afterward it's

just it's a breather and It's nice that they're

given those to us, you know, we don't we don't

get a lot of opportunities for what purple character

development and and and watching the people at

recreation we don't get to see that because man

life is just hitting these characters from the

right and the left and the center so i think

this it's nice that they're giving these breaks

to us and to the characters you know just let's

just let's just see something different for a

little bit absolutely we open up with Mikey going

over what the plan is is supposed to be uh you

know telling telling each of the turtles what

their part in the plan is and uh... we're counting

on you to handle anyone who gets out of line

raf i'd like to see him try you know it's it's

you know leo's job to keep them coordinated and

all of that and we have you know mikey in in

you know pants and suspenders and a and a santa

hat let's make this the most awesomest christmas

party ever We are being led to believe that they're

up to some serious shenanigans. There's business

going down They're gonna have to break some skulls,

but then it's actually just planning Mm -hmm

Mikey's Ultimate Christmas party ultimate Christmas

party. I like this panel here Looking around

at what's laying around their their living room.

There's I can't tell I think that's um, that's

a Street Fighter video game PlayStation 4 video

game a couple of PlayStation 4 controllers. There's

a Mario action figure There's a couple of comics

underneath lock in the Akira Ben Bishop's aggregate

comic which we should go read that and buy that.

I haven't done that yet, but I ought to. The

Tao of Physics, which I really want to read,

if that's a real book. I think it is, because

they wouldn't have put it in there if there wasn't.

But yeah, that's some neat stuff. And I think

that's a fire stick remote or an Apple TV remote,

a little white with a circle up top and the two

buttons. Yeah, that's probably an Apple TV remote,

most likely. If any of us, Donnie doing that,

I'm sure Donnie seems like an Apple guy. Yeah,

absolutely. But the biggest surprise here is...

You said certain things laying about the room.

Biggest surprise is pepperoni is in the sewer.

We're in the in the basement I'm sorry, but I'm

never not gonna be able to not call it a damn

sewer because we were in the sewer for so damn

long, so I think the stairs down there they go

right to the to the yeah, they're definitely

in the basement of the church and it has the

sewer access because that was kind of how they

found it and where we're uh Slash attack them

when slang is a bizarre bad guy bad guy. Yeah,

I Made a connection reading this again that pepperoni

the dinosaur that wrath brought back to the present

from the turtles in time arc That that wrath

in a lot of the incarnations has had a pet and

the Nick series I think is what's coming to mind.

He has starts out with The turtle who ends up

being slash. Oh gosh. What did he call it? What

was his name spike? It turns into slash and then

later he gets toka the toka's child the baby

evil okay i haven't seen that far i haven't seen

a lot of season four yet so he's always got a

pet and here he's got this pepperoni dinosaur

which is it really does seem to me like raf would

be raf is like the the prison convict who they

give the dog to to like reorient their brain

raf needs somebody to take care of yeah that

doesn't have an opinion Or well, maybe it does

have an opinion that opinion is I'm gonna love

you Unconditionally like dogs do dogs don't care.

They love you all the time And I think that's

what pepperoni is and spike is and the space

diamond space turtle. I can't I don't know which

but be named it I don't remember. Yeah, so this

is and that's another beautiful thing about issues

like this is we get the character development

we get to see that part of wrath that you don't

need to see when he's shoving the butt of a sigh

into somebody's nose, it's Yeah, I mean this

yes this issue We see his character development

with with pepperoni and all that and then next

issue when we talk about that That's a whole

lot of raft character development. Well, we'll

get to that in a little bit Something tells me

we're gonna regret doing going along with this

I'm gonna need more power Donnie's essentially,

you know the chevy chase of this comic. So Raph

takes pepperoni for a long walk and... You know

Leo's like by the way Mikey don't forget our

agreement just a few close friends. That's all

yeah, totally dude It's it's a few close friends

like April Casey Woody angel the mutanimals no

way no mutanimals Mike I Love that Mikey trying

to make eggnog oh that hurts my brain I've never

been brave enough to make that. I've considered

it, I've thought about it, but raw egg is just,

it's a little tricky to play with, I don't know.

So Raph takes Pepperoni for the walk, and he

goes and meets up with Casey, and Casey... Well,

he takes Pepperoni for the walk to avoid having

to clean the lair. Yeah. And Casey is now leading

the Purple Dragons. I forgot about that until

this point, but yeah, that's He's taking care

of business from the inside Mm -hmm You can't

beat him beat their leader and then lead him

So Casey's gonna come to the party and I love

Raf here. He says, up to you, bro. I'm sure Mike's

going to have a pretty good spread, either way.

Just whatever you bring to the party. Leave the

nuts at home. And we see this giant shadow. And

I wasn't sure who it was at first until later.

But I see now that it is slash. We get to Donnie

doing his best impression of Chevy Chase's Clark

Griswold. And, you know, he's, you know, talking

to himself and we see this pigeon who is a spy

for pigeon Pete. And the pigeon flies off and

goes back to Pete, and Pete's like, Mikey's house

tonight, oh boy. Sorry to feed and run, fellas,

but time's a -wastin'. Pete and the mate animals

are gonna party! Oh lord. I should've said this

in the beginning. Mateus Santaluco is on art

here, as well as Ronda on colors, and it's just

so good. All of the art is just so good. The

characters are spot -on all that good stuff Yeah,

this this issue strike stress strikes strikes

me as an issue that Santa Lucas spent some time

on now all of his work is always good, but Every

panel I got a special amount of attention in

this issue and and I you know what I think This

was the first issue that he did after the break.

He took the break between 50 Yeah, and and 65

and so he probably had a lot of time to do it

and maybe felt fresh on it So that's that's probably

why this issue looks so darn good from a pencils

and inking standpoint Absolutely is always awesome.

So, you know, yep Absolutely we get to Harold

and Libby, so I guess they're back together now

where we left them I remember I thought I thought

his wife I don't remember man um didn't she show

up in the giant robot and save ever save the

day at the end of the last art yeah yeah okay

and I'm not insane no you're not insane an email

from Donatello the mutant turtle what's he want

Harold here is bitter that the turtles are reaching

out to him. He says no more ninjas no more mutant

turtles because he's done they bring havoc wherever

they go or it follows them either way it doesn't

matter and What strikes me so he doesn't want

to he doesn't reply he doesn't answer the moral

of this what strikes me about this panel Again,

Santalucco's art, his herald is amazing. He just

looks like one of those people that the face

has grown into a permanent frown. And scowl and

just hatred of the world. You can see it in the

cheekbones, right? But then his wife is there

She's softening him up. Merry Christmas Harry.

Don't call me Harry Ebenezer then and the last

panel he cracks the smile because the facade

breaks and You can even read in that panel that

this is a face that is not used to smiling but

but can and Just just a little subtle Energy

in the line work like that. I appreciate and

notice Yep We go back to the turtles and they've

cleaned up the the basement layer as best they

can and Woody comes in with all the pizzas and

and all of that and Raph comes in like a pimp

Oh, his belt buckle says crude. It does. I missed

that earlier. But yeah. And look who I found

outside. Merry Christmas, guys. It's April and

Angel. And I'm sorry. I like Woody. I think Woody's

a great guy. But there's no way in hell Woody

to stand in for Shaggy Rogers. No zoinks. Come

on, guys. Come on. But Woody is enamored with

Angel. um... uh... so there's that uh... we have

that uh... later he says uh... Mike's here please

tell me you got mistletoe hanging around your

crib somewhere down boy angels tougher than wrath

no worries my green bro it takes a lot to scare

old Woody angels tougher than wrath don't let

wrath hear you say that Mikey And Slash shows

up with Candy! And Woody's absolutely freaked

out because the last time he saw this monster

it tore apart. That was all the way back in issue

15. Just goes to show you. How old we are and

how long this comic has been excelling at what

it does. Wait a minute, did you know that or

did they make an editor's note? It's a note in

the thing. Okay, gotcha. CTMNT 15. What are you,

an encyclopedia? No, that's Bobby. That's all

Bobby Kernel. I dare not take credit for that.

No, it's a little note here Where where slash

says my apologies for the frightening you mr?

Durkins now and for the first time we met into

the very bottom of that panel. It says see TMNT

15 so so we got slash and slash Woody and Mikey

and and Slash says me too. It's wonderful to

see you and the other mutanimals after so long

other muta animals surprise everybody but old

hob shows up i was surprised that i mean i i

kind of almost think that old hob they should

have included him i don't know if he's tied up

or kidnapped or something crazy um but i'm kind

of surprised he didn't show up um it would have

been a good opportunity for them to To put down

arms there could have been the tense moment between

Raph and old hop because there's personal beef

there But but you know, hey mutanimals and we

like them, you know, and Leo has turned into

the coat rack And apparently Pete is on karaoke

my head and my head and my stomach I love Woody

and Angel what he's like and I thought the giant

snapping turtle was scary welcome to my world

pizza guy yo punks Casey's here it's time to

party hi Casey Casey and April. I've been looking

at her sweater. That's a very intricate pattern.

I think that's getting very, very, how to say,

that's getting laid on her form like Photoshop

way. That's kind of neat. It's a neat technique.

It's taken and warped. Absolutely. Well done.

Very well done. And see, you don't do that for

an entire series, you know? You do that for your

one special Christmas issue. Here's a knit sweater

where you can see every stitch. And the other

thing is, we've talked about that. We've been

doing this for how long with the podcast now?

I mean, we've gone through every single issue

to this point. And there was a time when they

gave April not necessarily a facelift on the

character, but there was a time where They had

her cut her hair shorter than mine. And just,

no. But at this point now, she's, you know, her

hair is, you know, almost shoulder -length and

it looks really nice. And she looks great in

the sweater and the skirt and all that. And Casey's

just like, wow, whoa. I love Casey after he takes

his coat off, because Leo asks for his coat or

whatever. I thought Raph said this was going

to be a small party, and Leo's like, yeah, well,

the best laid plans of mice and mutants. Coat?

Come on, Leo, you're supposed to be dropping

those on your bed. That's what we do in our family.

The best laid plans of mice and mutants. Oh,

god. So we kind of get everybody kind of pairing

off and and everything and pepperoni gets into

the pizza I'm all for extra pepperoni, but that's

a little ridiculous raff. Hey get out of there

girl I love that. What's he gonna do with that

thing when it's a when it's a Full -size t -rex

I hope she never grows up I hope this is one

thing in the Turtles universe that Pepperoni

never gets any bigger than what she already is.

Because, like we've already said, Raph likes

the small little pet things and that kind of

thing, and I hope Pepperoni never grows up into

a full -blown Triceratops. Heaven forbid, you

know, heaven forbid, she gets dropped in a vat

of purple ooze and turns into a Triceraton, but...

You know, pepperoni needs to stay young and innocent

and small. I hope so. Yup. I love the next couple

of panels with Angel and Raph. Quite the little

bash you're throwing here, Raph. When's Kitsune

gonna show up? Or hun? The way this night's going,

give it time. The funny thing that is going on

here that I missed the first time that I read

it is Oh gosh, what's the lady cat mutant that

hangs out? Sally Sally Sally and Ray fillet are

over here drinking Mikey's eggnog. How's the

eggnog needs a little more nog and then Our Herman

the hermit crab says at ease. I've got you covered

soldier and he's dunking Flask of of hard liquor

now what I thought that was into his own cup

held very close to the viewer to the camera for

foreshortening But that he's actually pouring

it into the community punch bowl where the eggnog

is getting out of and so Everybody from that

panel forward who's got eggnog in their hand

is getting slowly and slowly and slowly more

hammered Which is they're all they're all teenagers.

They're not getting it. So I think With the big

sideways burp out of here, the pepperoni's been

getting into it and the asymmetrical eyes. And

down below in the bottom of this page, Mondo

Gecko is staring at the Christmas tree. Going

crazy and woozy and his camouflage is just he's

got like almost tie -dye colors and righteous

sugar buzz and Everybody is still getting more

and more hammered the next page. I completely

missed this one. I guess I've said this before

in other episodes that we've done with this.

I read this for the story first, and then usually

when we go through the issues, I will catch the

little things I missed before. Oh, and you catch

things that I miss, and I miss things you miss.

Yeah, vice versa. And you know what I missed

the first time around? Because I wasn't really

looking at it. Look what's on the TV. Great Pumpkin.

The Great Pumpkin. Was that a Christmas movie?

No, Great Pumpkin was Halloween. It should have

been a Charlie Brown Christmas, but this is the

turtles. They're not supposed to make sense.

We've got a bunch of Christmas references here

in the entire comic, which is great. As soon

as Casey mentions second time around. Oh, God.

that's the store and it's like oh it's so good

and what he's like check it out mistletoe yeah

so and he tries to kiss angel and she dumps her

eggnog on him totally worth it and everybody's

tired of Pete's karaoke pretty much And, uh...

Oh, what's his name? Seymour. Uh, ask Leo, I

thought you had three brothers. Yeah, Donnie's

still in my A. Not anymore, everybody outside,

quick! This is so totally and I'm glad that they

did not draw this out like it's it's shown in

Christmas vacation because he goes you know you've

seen everybody's seen that movie he goes three

or four times to get this right and You know

we get you know 25 ,000 twinkle lights and it

lights up all of New York and then a blackout

absolutely wonderful we get more of the story

here because what was that I'm not sure agent

Bishop weird we were triangulating in on the

mutants location then there was this massive

electrical anomaly and then nothing so they're

there slowly introducing us to agent Bishop in

his part of the story and whatever else and that's

that's really cool and Nice going, Griswold.

I love it. I love it. I laughed so much when

I was reading this. Of course, Pete has to find

the battery operated tape recorder and karaoke

thing. So this kind of comes to a close and Mikey's

like, so this didn't go the way I thought it

would. Sorry for all the craziness, guys. Sorry.

Are you kidding, Mikey? This was the best Christmas

party ever. And that's Leo saying that. Coming

back around. He was in a real dark place after

this because he had chosen to leave his father.

And now he was the sole leader and that was really

weighing heavy on him. I didn't I think he made

a mistake and didn't do a good job or something

was really doubting himself So we're kind of

seeing him come out of the depression here with

this Yep absolutely We get an epilogue where

we see all the turtles in you know their rooms

and bed and all that and everything else and

We kind of end on Mikey's and before we get to

the reveal here for what's to come you look at

Mikey's panel You notice anything on the wall?

The Ice Ice Baby poster, the Vanilla Ice poster

must be that. That's it. Akira, he's got an Akira

action figure there. A Wu -Tang Clan poster.

I'm sure those other posters are something that

I don't know. It was the Vanilla Ice thing. I'm

like, oh god. The only thing that would have

made that a little bit better, and it is cool,

the Ice Ice Baby is cool, the only thing it would

have made a little bit better. go ninja go ninja

go but i laugh so hard at that and we get a plate

of cookies and milk next to Mikey's bed and somebody

is taking a cookie and leaves a present and and

Mikey sees the present and what is it what is

it what is it no way new chucks I was not expecting

Splinter Claws to show up. He still cares about

his sons. I'm sure he left presents for the other

turtles. I wish we could have seen what they

were. Yeah. At least, Mikey needed something.

Because he's had the hardest time since issue

50, kind of dealing with everything. They even

even are in Leo because I mean Mikey gave up

his brothers for a time and You know, it's good

that they're back. Absolutely issue 65 was great.

I thought it was super fun I thought the art

was very well done as always. I mean, you know,

it's never not well done, but you know I just

loved every bit of issue 65. What about you?

Yeah, me too. I think it's it's a great break.

You get to see the characters Just hanging out

just being themselves. They aren't under pressure

You know it is one of the things about the book

on the whole the IDW turtle series is that it's

it's moving so quick and everything's happening

it's boom boom boom the next thing the next arc

and And probably, you know, maybe less than a

year has passed or maybe two in turtle time This

doesn't happen in other books, you know? We're

on issue 65. I mean, that's a long time for a

book. The amount of stuff that they're covering

is crazy. So to get a good issue like this where

we do get to stop, where we do get to just see

the characters is a very earned reward, I think.

Absolutely. On a scale of zero to five, what

would you give... On a scale of zero to five,

what would you give 65? I think it's appropriate

to give it a five. However, I look at our ones

and fives as as dinner, you know, it's like this

is this is the meat and potatoes and It's good

the nuts and bolts of what it's good. This this

issue is a candy bar. This is the treat. This

is the dessert And it just it doesn't even operate

on the one through five. This is it's a it's

it's on its own thing But but yeah a five, you

know, because we should give it a number. Yep.

Absolutely Five for me. So fives all around.

Oh Eastman did a cover the sub cover of that

and it's probably one of Eastman's best -looking

covers in a long time a lot of them are very

stylized and loose and and in his in his It kind

of heavy bold style this this has a lot more

detail a lot more time went into this Cover and

and it's an it's a neat it's a neat departure

from some of his other covers is one of my more

favorite ones cool absolutely I Think for me

on 65 with the covers It's got to be the regular

cover. I mean Mikey with the the the holiday

spirit and all the holiday stuff behind. Oh god.

It's just so good Mikey's got his arms above

his head. Yeah Yeah, that was April looks there's

something strange about her that I can't put

my finger on I can't there's nothing wrong with

the drawing It's just I gotta I gotta stare at

it some more. I guess So we get to issue 66 and

the main cover because I'm not looking at the

other covers right now, but the main cover is

alopex and kitsune and and all kinds of red,

white, and yellow, and gray, and... It's the

bear. The bear's open mouth. Yep. Yep. I didn't

notice that till now. See, this is why we need

to read it two or three times, Mike. This is

great. That's right. Absolutely. And we're looking

at... This is Sophie Campbell's cover. Yep. Sophie

Campbell back on the book, messing with her...

She created alopex, right? Yeah. I believe so.

I not... particularly sure. I remember Sophie

came on, I think, in the Northampton arc. Yeah.

She showed up, I think. Yeah, that's when Alipak

showed up. So yeah, we got Eastman, Bobby, Waltz,

and Sophie all on story. Script was done by Tom.

Art is done by Sophie. Color is done by Aranda.

So we've got two women on a turtle's book for

art and colors. That's awesome. That's great.

Sean Lee on letters, Bobby on edits, and Ted

Adams is the publisher obviously. Angel and Raph

are in Alaska where it's cold. You think? This

raises a question for me that I've always wanted

to know about the turtles. They're reptiles.

They're cold -blooded. Are they actually cold

-blooded, or did the mutagen make them warm -blooded?

Or is there something special about their anatomy

that makes them able to survive even in the cold

without wearing full clothes? You know, it's

some weird stuff that I've always wanted to know

the answer to, but... Well, Raph is wearing a

full outfit here, so... And you gotta remember,

in this incarnation, they were, you know, in

their past life, they were human. They were not

it might not affect their that well it wouldn't

affect their biology And neither would wearing

clothes either because they don't generate their

own body heat to stay warm inside So they'd be

bloody cold right away even with clothing but

You know what? I guess we can deduce from that

that they, in fact, are warm -blooded reptiles

because of the mutagen, because he's wearing

clothes and he's not dying. This is way... everybody

listening, this is way too much thought and we

don't actually mean this. Actually, it's a comic

book. Relax, everybody. It's okay. I'm relaxed.

But at least now we know the answer. So they're

in Alaska to find alopex and alopex is being

plagued by kitsune I Love I love Sophie's art

between kitsune and alopex throughout this whole

issue. It's so good There is something going

on with this issue that I Notice and love so

yes, they are they're here to see alopex and

on this particular page alopex is in the cave

there's the the Kitsune's voice is torturing

her and I look at that page and that was colored

that was colored by Rhonda I can tell for sure

because you know, it's it's the traditional art,

but every once in a while there's kind of dream

sequence thing shows up and I'm going to assume

that this is all Sophie Campbell and because

there's watercolor stuff going on there's the

ink is going on the color is very organic and

kind of water in the the water has affected the

watercolors and I think that she's done everything

on this page and that's that so it's interesting

how we're watching the two of them kind of go

this this page is a lot more expressionistic

more dreamlike but a lot of fun Absolutely. To

see them toss it back and forth. And I wonder

how the development of that issue may have been.

Here, send me page five. OK, here's page six.

I got that part done. You can add your part here

now, blah, blah, blah. That had been kind of

neat to hear about that. Absolutely. One of these

days, we've got to get Rhonda on here, hopefully.

One of these days. So basically kitsune is little

like you said she's she's torturing alopex And

you think you could escape my you know escape

me child did you truly believe there's a way

out? you belong to me little fox, and I am not

finished with you yet and I love the panel right

under that where like the panel above that is

is kitsune's face with the with the the speech

and then under that is is alopex and just being

invaded by all this red fox stuff from from kitsune

and just oh so so heartbreaking um now i wonder

if the cave that she's in i wonder if that was

the bear's cave huh If that's what she's waiting

for she's being for the bear to come back or

no no I'm saying she's she's in there You know

trying to hide from the elements and things like

that, and she's trying to you know get Kitsune

out of her mind But as she's you know the panel

the panel after she says damn when you know when

we see her walk out of the cave I'm just kind

of wondering was that Originally back when we

met her was that the Bears cave? the, you know,

who knows, I don't know. Or maybe it wasn't her

family's cave, but that's awfully big for some

foxes to be living in. But, you know, there is

some symbolic stuff going on with the placement

of the spiky spikes around the mouth of that

cave. Those are definitely teeth, and she's inside

the mouth of the beast. And then she comes out

into the light at the end of that panel. Yeah,

absolutely. The control or that there's yeah

still torture is yeah, because she splashes some

water on her face to kind of bring her back to

her senses and she sees Kitsune in the in the

water and she splashes it away and no more and

we get back to Raph and an angel and You know

This basically, Angel says, Alopec, she's a fighter,

man. She's gonna take, it's gonna take a lot

to keep her down, you know that. Yeah, but with

everything that's been going on lately, especially

all the junk with my father and the foot and...

It's getting hard to believe things are gonna

work out. You really love her, don't you? I don't

know, I guess. Wait a sec, seriously, Raph? So...

You know, Raph essentially admits that he loves

alopex and, you know, he explains why, which

is this scene here was beautifully written because

you get, you get like these real life emotions

getting explained and getting talked about and

they linger on it for, you know, two, three pages

here, uh, of text. And it is, it's, it's neat.

It's real. It's not even, uh, Hollywood. love

story it's like now this is this is like two

people who sit on the couch and ignore each other

but they're fully fully totally in love i mean

this is what raf and alopex are they're they're

an escape um from you know what this reminds

me of you just said they they sit on the couch

and they totally totally ignore each other joe

and jenny in the same room on the couch on their

phones on facebook There are not people who are

more compatible than she and I and yeah, we do

we sit on the thing and we 90 % of the time are

not interacting but there's nobody in the world

that I'd rather be sitting on the couch completely

ignoring than Jenny I am so sending this to her

That's what they explain on this panel is angel

Talks about her family and she says yeah when

my mom died my dad said what he missed most was

sitting on the couch watching television not

saying a word to her and it's that kind of companionship

is it's how to say It's extreme comfort. It is

relaxation. It is comfort. It is safety. I don't

know. I can't think of the word, but you know,

you don't have to be doing something all the

time. And we have the image of romantic love

in Hollywood where two people have to be, oh,

you know, my heart thump, thump, thump. And when

that goes away, people get worried and they break

up like, no, no, that's where it's starting.

When you don't have the romantic mushy, mushy

love anymore and you're just like bored of each

other, but you still... There's no other life

for you. It's this. And sad, you know, lots of

that. But that's why I love this page and this

panel, is because they're talking about that

real love. They're not talking about it in a

Hollywood raff and alopex are going to kiss at

the end, and that's when it's going to fade to

black and the series ends. You know, that's not

the story. So I appreciate that panel, this page,

these two, three pages quite a bit for the maturity

that they're dealing with the topic. absolutely

um and then raf you know puts it back on angel

so what about you huh or should i say you and

woody pizza guy he's i i guess kind of a dweeb

but kind of cute at the same time gives me lots

of free pizza though i dig that yes she does

awesome i can't find it but that's on there it's

yeah it's it's yeah The interesting thing about

this that kind of got me with, I was reminded

by these two issues of Woody crushing on Angel

and Angel having something with Raph here talking

about Woody. I thought in one of the later issues

that I've already read, that you'll get to eventually,

that they were kind of suggesting that Angel

might be gay. And you know put it normalizing

the whole and bringing it to reality of like

yes Not everybody is straight deal with it because

you know, they're we're all regular people So

hearing her kind of talking about woody like

this i'm going like wait Did they ret retcon

that or is she exploring herself? Is she just

open -minded like I kind of? I wonder if they're

going to address that issue at some point or

if i'm totally wrong and she's not gay It doesn't

matter. It's not my business I'm not sure So

they go off and they start you know climbing

up the mountain to find alopex and we get alopex

and shredder and her hallucination of the past

and and all of that and You know we get her and

kiss kitsune and you know She just wants her

to leave her alone, and we basically get panels

of Kitsune saying, I've never left you alone.

I've always been with you, always been watching,

you know, watching and waiting for you. Um, I

just love this. I think this is just so fun.

And then... Kitsune recreates the bear. God...

It's Kitsune Bear. She's going to attack her.

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I might need to go back

and review the bear. I don't remember that part.

I'm sorry. I think it was in a small fly. And

again, Bobby, Tom, Kevin, we're sorry. I think

it was in a small origin flashback within the

first couple of, I think it was either 29 or

30, maybe, where we have. Alopex is origin and

why she how she came about and whatever else

and So we get back to angel and and and Raph

and I almost thought wait did they Did they replace

Raph with Leo, but it's obviously a Raph's body.

He's just wearing blue a blue mask a blue goggles

thing For it for the wind and all that for the

weather You know so and This is complete character

building for RAF. I Riders I love you guys, but

damn it you you all and they're doing their job

when they do this, you know When you least expect

RAF to do the one thing that you never thought

he would he does he says ah screw it i'm just

gonna sit here and try to do something leo taught

me and he's going to meditate to try to reach

out to uh oh god i love that and if if it were

if any one of the turtles were there instead

of angel he wouldn't do that um if casey were

there i don't know he wouldn't do that no um

It's so there's there's you know, they made these

characters every single one of them complex and

real and unpredictable in And then at the same

time ultimately reliable. Yeah true to themselves

and this is Raph doing what he's got to do to

find his woman Yep, and I've said it before I'll

say it again This is by far the best TMNT Comics

series we've ever had. Yep. I get it Everybody

loves the original cuz they that was when we

were all kids I wasn't into the original Mirage

run and all that when Kevin and Peter started

it, but That's the greatest thing about the IDW

series at this point is because you have Bobby

and Kevin and Tom being able to call upon the

last thirty thirty three thirty three eighty

four thirty three years of of stuff and at the

same time there's certain comics and things that

will just you know throw in a reference just

to throw in a reference but you know these guys

they make every reference Issue 65 we just talked

about it where they call back to issue 15 of

the of this series. It's like Hello, you know,

it's amazing. Absolutely awesome. Absolutely

love it You know, I love the mirage run for what

it was but when it comes to It has a lot to do

with the fact IDW success in the series and how

the quality of the series has a lot to do with

being able to call on 33 years of the very best

of the turtles And then so it's pulling from

the best of the history the best of versions

of the origin, but then it's also throwing These

really unique awesome creative new things into

the series like the reincarnation thing that

that will forever be my headcanon for for Ninja

Turtles because There's no better way to explain

why there are ninjas running around modern -day

New York City. It is too perfect, and it binds

Splinter and the Turtles together in a way that

you can never really separate because he is literally

their father, not even in an adopted way. And

you don't get that with any other version of

the Turtles. And the lovely new characters that

we have, Alopex and... Angel and Woody and all

the mutanimals old old Hobb to a slightly lesser

extent but old Hobb I hated the fact that they

were bringing this weird new villain in there

that that that Kevin Eastman created for this

series I was like what no don't mess with it

guys don't mess with it But they've made him

they've made old Hobb an interesting compelling

character And with this incredible depth that's

going on now that he's still a dirt bag But he's

on the turtle's side and at any point he could

backstab him But I think I think at this point

like old hob has had so many positive characters

around him that I don't think he's capable of

the supreme backstab anymore I don't think he

could if he had to I think he'd be the he'd make

the good choice You never know Anyway, Alopex

is fighting this bear. Yep, and she is tired

of running and it's time to end this. We get

back to meditating RAF and you said earlier and

we said earlier that you know this is something

if anybody but Angel was there, RAF would not

do this. All is I can think of is classic TMNT,

1990. Marshmallow, put those away! Leo That's

all I can think of when I see this panel of rafts

saying alopex. Where are you? It's all I can

think of is the is the fireside scene in TMNT

90. Oh I love it. Oh god. Love that movie. It's

it's it's the it's the and what they took from

that movie and brought here into this comic the

series is the family theme the yeah which was

I don't know that wasn't a part of the turtle

in the mirage comics they were no but the shredder

had his dysfunctional family in the turf splinter

had his very healthy family yeah and and in the

same way that they sat down and reached out to

splinter to find him Raph is sitting down to

reach out to find somebody who is very much family

to him Oh my gosh. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's

just so good. You know, and we get, after the

panel of him sitting down asking, Alopex, where

are you? Alopex, we get this giant, we get this

panel of... Two different shots of him. One is

a background shot of him kind of blended into

the color of the background, the snow and all

that. And then the foreground character shot

of him is just him no clothes with, you know,

bandana flowing in the wind. And, you know, we

get, you know, the bear and Kitsune and all that

and Alipax and who, how fascinating. And then,

you know, Alapex is like, Raph, how? No time.

I don't know how long I can hold this connection.

And, you know, he basically tells her, don't

listen to Kitsune. She's trying to trick you

with her stupid head games, but you can beat

her. You gotta remember who you are, not who

she's trying to make you to be. Who I am. Yeah,

you're Alapex. You're a mutant ninja fox from

New York City. Ah, and you kick serious ass.

I think this is probably the closest I'm gonna

get to my RAF Alopex romance comic that I want.

I love this. I think all of this issue, all of

the RAF stuff with Angel talking about his feelings

for Alopex and all of that, and especially this

panel right here, I absolutely love. the way

Sophie and Rhonda did this. You have Alopex on

the left and she's still laying down on the ground

and she's kind of a more a more solid character

as far as the colors and her form and everything

else and Raph is kind of like oh god I really

don't want to make a Patrick Swayze Demi Moore

reference but I will. He's kind of like this

ghost. you know thing um thank god you know Peter

and and Egon and Ray and Winston run around um

but yeah i mean god just so good so Alopex gets

up um you know you know and she basically kicks

Kitsune's butt uh And I love the action shots

here. I'm pretty sure, you know, Kitsune says,

you do not be foolish, little fox. You cannot

win. No, I'm pretty sure I already have. And

we have this beautiful panel shot of Alopex coming

in like a flying ninja. And in front of her is

the Kitsune fox character thing, which... Pretty

much it shows it doesn't show alopex. It shows

her doing this but the way it's shown and I probably

describing this horribly for audio people but

Shows her with you know her energy her swords

or whatever. She's got basically cutting the

fox's throat here and just Absolutely, it's such

good art There's a lot of really nice symmetry

going on. It's very balanced And the action lines

because it's this still is kind of a dream sequence

Yep, but very much actually happening in in that

spirit realm Yep Absolutely, and I just God I've

missed doing turtles not just miss doing turtles

with you know doing the turtles comics with you

But I've missed reading this stuff because like

I said, I haven't I don't read this I read comics

for enjoyment still, but I enjoy reading them

so I can talk about them on the podcast. I don't

just read comics to read them. I have a purpose

in doing so, and I have not read anything since

we did... Okay, outside of the... I mean, in

the TMNT IDW ongoing series, I have not read

anything since we did the Street Phantoms arc.

And I don't even remember when that was. I don't

remember recording that. Yeah, that was a while

ago. Yeah. It was a long long while ago And you

know alopex alopex angel not just her Raph and

they hug and happily ever after now something

to note here That I didn't catch the first time

because I'm blind the first two times because

this is the third time I've read it so it alopex

cuts the head off of the the Fox the Kitsune

demon and There's this blue spirit energy that

she's been channeling into her into her spirit

commas and as she cuts the head off is a battle

cry and the energy is kind of splattering and

moving and flowing up toward her and Her mask

the the paint or the honor face used to be purple

the streak across her but after she uh kills

kitsune and frees her own mind it's blue it's

blue and it looks more like a bird uh on her

face instead of like just the the domino mask

yeah so that's that is really neat um I yeah

man the the the alopex appears in the Nickelodeon

2012 series in Dishy I guess that I haven't I

haven't watched season 4 yet so it's near the

end of season 4 a fun character and they do something

really neat with her which I won't spoil for

you but the that TV show does this character

no justice at all This character has a much more

interesting journey. They do something really

cool. They're in in the next series and if Sophie

invented her I hope that she got some royalties

from that but Alpex way cool has a blue mask

now and is cool. Very very cool So they ask about

when Kitsune is going to turn up, and Angel says,

when she does, I hope it's somewhere warmer.

It's a miracle. Nobody froze to it, especially

those of us who ended up just standing around

in that damn blizzard, right, Raph? Yeah, yeah.

First round of hot cocos is on me when we land.

Ooh, that sounds yummy. Can I get mine with marshmallows,

says Alapex. the little ones I love those sure

why not marshmallows for everyone spoiled brats

I just love this so much and you know close to

the end here we have Angels talking a raft here

speaking of getting back do me a solid raft don't

tell Woody that that thing I said about him being

cute Okay, don't I don't want him to get getting

cut too cocky What about the part where you call

them a dweeb you can totally tell him I said

that Absolutely. So good. And we end on kind

of a to be continued kind of thing. And the best

thing about this final... Girl, if you think

where Snarky, wait until you meet Harold's wife.

Wait, Harold's got a wife? Is she human? I love

it. I love it so much. Oh, God. Oh, it's so good.

Issue 66, great character development for everybody

involved, not just Raph, not just Angel, not

just all three of them. Absolutely love it. I

cannot wait to read more. I've decided this is

the issue that I want Sophie Campbell to autograph

when I meet her at a convention someday. I don't

know. I've never seen her on a convention list.

I'm going to go... I'm gonna go type very quietly

on my noisy keyboard yeah no absolutely issue

66 for me It's gotta be a five. I mean, everything

with the writing was firing on all cylinders.

I have no nitpicks whatsoever. The art between

Sophie and Rhonda, both of them, just gorgeous.

Look, I love Mattias Santalucco. I love all the

other artists that are on this book. But Sophie

and Rhonda need to work together more often.

Yeah, this, I'm, um... Can get in touch with

with Rhonda and I'm gonna ask her this question

that I'm dying to know whether it's this felt

like a very Eastman and Laird type collaboration

that they that it wasn't just I'm done. Here's

the book You do your thing that there was some

back -and -forth going on and it just looks like

it and I think you know I was just kind of a

neat Eastman and Laird thing for them to have

channeled Absolutely This next show absolutely

There's a ton of stuff that that came out you

know a Few months ago with comic -con and all

that and everything else our next episode here

on the podcast will be issues 67 to 70 which

is the Desperate desperate or dangerous. I just

I just looked at this it is the desperate measures

arc That runs through issues 67 to 70 so that's

what's gonna be coming up next time here on the

pull bag first sewer surfing September After

that we will do we're gonna go to the other ongoing.

We're finally gonna start that We're gonna go

to TMNT universe and do an episode for issues

one to four and then an episode for five to nine

so that'll be pretty cool and awesome and do

all that and And everything else. So that's what's

coming up here in Sewer Surf in September. Where

can the people find you online, sir? Uh, best

place to find me online is at the Geek Stuff

Garage sale. Uh, if you go to Facebook .com slash

Geek Stuff Garage sale, you will find me. You

can message me there. Uh, please do. I would

love to hear from you. Uh, that's, I, I wish

I were not a Luddite and could be reached on

Twitter's or... What are the kids doing now?

Instagram? I don't know. No, you don't need Instagram.

Okay. You don't need Instagram. Anybody over

25 does not need Snapchat. Any of that stuff.

Oh, God. That's what they're doing. They're doing

the Snapchat. That's the thing. I'm old. I will

stick with Facebook. But please reach out to

me. I love you. I mean, Twitter's all right.

You know, I mean, it's okay, but... Well, the

off -the -cuff guys... We were at a convention

and they took my phone and changed my password

and renamed me Joe's Hawaiian shirt and I don't

know the password now to get into my Twitter.

So I'm out of it. I don't know. They started

tweeting as Joe's Hawaiian shirt and that was

the end of it. We hope you enjoyed this first

episode episode 151 of the pullback here in sewer

surfing September And as I already said join

us next time for the desperate measures arc of

the TMNT comic series Yep, absolutely For now,

I am TF2 and Mike. He is Joe Reed. You can find

me at TF2 and Mike on Twitter. You can follow

The Pull Bag on Twitter as well at The Pull Bag.

Make your great escape into comics and we will

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