Star Wars: The Thrawn Trilogy Review

Welcome to The Pullback. Join us as we dig out

our latest comics and discuss them with a rotating

panel of the GCRN crew. So sit back and enjoy

this week's Pullback. and welcome to the pull

bag this is episode 119 and it is dark side december

kind of we've kind of nicknamed december 2015

dark side december because we're going to do

a bunch of star wars stuff here in the pull bag

but we're also going to have some other stuff

because there's just too much star wars stuff

all together um joining me is the star joe himself

ryan drost hello hello and i don't understand

this this phrasing of too much star wars stuff

too much star wars stuff There's no such phrase

in my vocabulary. There's just too much. I told

my wife the other day, I was at a store and I

went to go just get a t -shirt and I picked up,

of course, a Star Wars t -shirt and there was

just like... hundreds of things to choose from,

plus there was a ton of other Star Wars stuff,

and I said to her, I was like, I feel like I'm

eight years old again. Like, I'm like that pumped

up, I'm that excited, and the closer we get to

it, the more Star Wars stuff I'm absorbing, so.

Yeah, The Force Awakens is less than a month

away at this point. Episode seven, if you...

If you've been living under a rock. yeah if you've

been living under a rock on day of and you haven't

heard uh... you know the funny thing is is i'm

excited for episodes seven i've seen the trailers

i've seen you know whatever they're going to

show i haven't watched me that's easy to see

the spots in the urges they're put out a little

too many of them right now for ideas All movies

do that. All movies do like the million TV spot

thing and the TV spots are nothing. Like that

international trailer with the new footage with

the TIE fighters against the backlit of the sun

on whether it was Tatooine or whatever it was.

Okay, whatever. It's a new planet. It's a new

planet. Okay. And I said this way back when in

episode 66 when we did the FET trades blood ties

and all that I'm a movie fan. I'm the film universe.

I knew nothing of the Expanded universe and I

almost wanted it to remain that way, but I figured

oh, let's tie in Let's do some comic stuff for

Star Wars close to the end of the month closer

to the release of episode seven we're going to

record uh... shattered empire which is the new

marvel four issue miniseries thing that supposedly

it's going to do exactly what this is kind of

doing it's like marvel's just repeating dark

horse except they use it i don't know they're

doing it a very different way they're doing it

a very different way but uh... i blame you for

my torture and pain for having to go okay so

folks here's the thing Back when we did episode

66 of the pull bag, and I'll put the link for

that in the show notes so you guys can go back

and listen to that episode. After we were done

with that recording, I had asked you what are

some other Star Wars comics that I don't necessarily

need to know. like the other four hundred issues

like what are some overall storylines and you

had suggested throng trilogy and what are your

what are your highlights was all of them are

married the twins and will bother the else and

here i'm thinking all okay cool so we're going

to get the solo children as jenna is the law

i come to read this and i'm like their babies

she's still pregnant their babies what the hell

did you get me in droves oh my god the start

of it So yeah, you have to realize too like and

we talked a little bit about this before Before

the started recording is that so the Thrawn trilogy

came out and for the longest time it was called

the Timothy's on trilogy because that was the

author's name and It was it first came out as

books and it was the first thing that came out

Expanded universe that George Lucas said, okay,

go ahead and run with this And I remember being

in a comic shop, even though it was a book, I

remember being in a comic shop and seeing Star

Wars on the shelf and obviously being the complete

Star Wars geek that I am, my eyes instantly gravitated

there. And I was like, what is this? And I saw

it was a book and I'm like, do I want to get

this? I wasn't a huge reader at the time and

stuff like that. So I bought it. Devoured it

and then I realized it was part one of a story

So then I was like, okay, when's the next one

out? Well, luckily when I bought that at the

comic shop the second volume was already out

at the bookstores Because the comic shop got

it later So I bought the second volume, but then

I did have to wait a while for the third one

to come out I did devour them and then later

on Dark Horse did the comic adaptation, which

is what we read for this show So it was Since

the license went back to Marvel, since Disney

bought Marvel and Star Wars and whatever else,

all is they did was they took the Dark Horse

books and just slapped Marvel's name on them.

Yes. That's all they did. It's a license to print

money is what it is. Yeah, pretty much. That's

the thing I laugh with a lot of friends about.

that Disney bought Star Wars for $4 billion.

It doesn't seem like they're going to be out

that $4 billion for very long. No. I mean, hell,

what would it make? $60 million in pre -ticket

sales? Yes, and that eclipsed either Dark Knight

or Dark Knight Rises by more than twice the amount.

No doubt about it, especially because I think

it will be good. People say, well, if it's good,

it will do this. I think it will be good. It's

going to break every box office record ever.

I don't know how the subsequent movies will be,

but I think it will break every box office record.

Even that sinking ship movie? Yeah, it'll destroy

Titanic. Now, here's the one that I don't know

if it will be. Is gone with the wind because

technically gone with the wind still holds the

title for most ticket sales Titanic beats it

as far as money revenue and everything else,

but gone with the wind had the most ticket sales

I don't know if it'll beat that one. I think

it has a chance to But we'll see I already have

my pre. I already have my tickets ready. I'm

going to see it on the 17th around 7 o 'clock

I I the Greater Cleveland Film Association or

Film Commission had rights to show it a little

bit early and make an event out of it. So I got

tickets to that. So I'm very excited. I realized

going to it at that time, which I've had some

friends mention this to me. I realized going

to it at that time. I'm probably not going to

hear everything that happens in the movie But

that's part of the fun of seeing it that opening

night is you're there with fellow fans You're

there with the excitement and everything else.

I of course I'm gonna go see it more than once

in the theater So I'm not worried about okay

I didn't catch every little nuance of it I will

have plenty of opportunity to catch every little

nuance at subsequent viewings, so Because knowing

you you'll see it at least six times I'm actually

not that bad anymore Sure, you can you can say

that now, but you know, you're lying I guarantee

I will see it twice The any times after that

will depend on like I have nieces and nephews

coming into town for Christmas and stuff like

that If they haven't seen it, of course uncle

Ryan's gonna take them to go see it But I am

very much someone like I'll see a movie once

maybe twice in the theater if it's really awesome

and then I just chomp at the bit for it to come

out on video so I can get it home and watch it

Hundreds of times and of course, I will watch

it hundreds of times once I have it at home.

So So I don't know how much I'll contribute to

the ticket sales other than at least twice But

but we'll see but yeah, so like you said that

this story came out the throng trilogy came out

there was nothing else out so people would devoured

it and In my opinion, it's still one of the closest

depictions to the characterizations of the characters

from the movies. And that's why I recommended

it to you, because I was like, if you're only

familiar with the movies, then this will feel

a little bit like home because the characters

have the characterization that they did in the

movies. I'm looking at some information here.

The original Dark Horse comics, they started...

20 years ago. Yes. Oh my god. Yep, and Dark Empire,

which is the next thing that you had mentioned,

that was the very first thing that Dark Horse

Comics came out with. Yeah. The funny thing is,

apparently a family member of mine is on the

art in this book, Fred Blanchard. I have no idea

who that guy is. That's okay, because there is

a... I don't think it's in the comic. I didn't

see it in the comic, but in the book, Dark...

Dark Force Rising, there is a Drost character

in there. So he works for the Empire. He's on

two pages. I remember reading it. You have to

imagine, too, like these books came out and I

was so excited because there was nothing out

before this. And then I read the second book

and I see my last name in there and I just lost

my mind. And it must be an ancestor because it

was a long time ago. in a galaxy far far away

so lethron trilogy ladies and gentlemen I will

never ever do this again I spent six hours reading

this thing it's 18 it's 18 comic issues but 18

comic books in all fairness they came out one

issue among 20 years ago! Over 18 months! That's

just wrong. You could have read them like one

issue a day leading up to us recording. Yeah,

I could have. And it's not so bad. It's poor

planning on your part. Don't blame the comic.

I'll always blame the comic, and you too! Fine,

I'll take the blame. I don't mind taking the

blame when someone gets Star Wars goodness to

their knowledge base. And I think honestly that

the two main complaints that I have about Thrawn

Trilogy have nothing to do with the story. It

has to do with the art and it has to do with

how long the actual the big trade is. As I said

this this series started releasing 20 years ago

in the 90s when let's face it 90s comic art is

nothing like what we have like You take an issue

of this and you put it up against Vader down

or the Darth Vader series of now or the Star

Wars It's like oh my god We've come so far in

20 years when it comes to people drawing Star

Wars comics There's some gems there are some

gems, but yeah, it's I would say 90s art it's

like there was so much congestion of Artists

and creators at that time that it just Overwhelms

you and it's so it's a little tougher to find

the good stuff The one thing speaking of the

art when it comes to this the one thing I didn't

like was it wasn't the consistent consistent

artists through the whole thing Yeah, that's

part of the problem. I remember, you know, so

We're not going to go through this whole thing.

It's too friggin' big. Hour five. I only have

close to two hours before I have to do another

recording tonight. I took a bunch of notes as

I was going through because normally how I do

my notes is I do them as bullet points and I'll

read four or five pages and then I'll take, oh,

you know, like. One of my first notes is those

whib sticks the aliens used Luke Skywalker is

spider -man, you know, I mean I think that was

an issue too. I could be wrong though there to

the hair heir to the Empire But it's stuff like

you know, I Think I think it was I think it was

thrown that said this again. I could be wrong

My brain is essentially fried people. So I'm

gonna rely on Ryan for a lot of this stuff here

make it soon. I grow tired of waiting. I swear

I read that as make it so. I can understand.

So one of the things that I love with this trilogy

was the fact that not only did they create a

really dense, really complex story that worked

and got the characterization right, but they

introduced so many new characters that have And

I realize that this canon has been thrown out

by Marvel and everything else, but I don't care.

To me, it's still the universe that exists. I

view it like an Elseworlds story or something.

They created these other characters, these new

characters, that are so compelling. And to the

point of they made freaking action figures of

a lot of them. Like you have Admiral Thrawn that's

been made into an action figure at least twice.

You have Talon Card that was made into an action

for Borsk failure. I mean, you had a freaking

political guy, Borsk failure, who was made into

an action figure. You had Mara Jade, who is probably

the most famous character to come out of this.

Thrawn is up there, but Mara Jade lived well

beyond this story. I mean, she. Just spoiler

alert, she married Luke down the line. So and

she wants to kill him and she wants to write.

Well, that's usually how it works, isn't it?

Oh, wow. But they even had a kid together. I

mean, they got married. They had a kid. I mean,

they're Mara Jade has definitely lived her life

cycle. And she's someone that a lot of female

Star Wars fans will cosplay because she's just

such a cool character. So, yeah, one of our.

One of my buddies on Twitter, Scanner51, he,

uh, on Facebook friends with him and he says,

uh, I had... This was... As of this recording,

it was four hours ago during the record, folks.

So, you know, if you're listening to this six

months down the line, it was four hours ago on

November 25th, 2015. I'm on page 152 out of 431

of the Thrawn trilogy. Damn, this is a long book.

My buddy said, when we went to Celebration 7

earlier this year, there was a guy dressed up

like Thrawn. Someone asked him who he was supposed

to be. and apparently he said who cares he doesn't

exist anymore and it's such a shame i totally

understand why they had to get rid of the pre

the previous canon because it was just There

was too much out there. I mean 20 some years

of Dark Horse doing comics You can't just jump

into the middle of that and go hey new readers

check this out But um, but there were some just

amazing characters one of the things early on

in the story here that I definitely had a bullet

point on that I wanted to mention and it's one

thing that compelled me right away to the character

was First off you have Admiral Thrawn Grand Admiral

Thrawn who is the first like one of the first

heads of the Imperial army who is not a human.

The Empire was very speciesist, I guess you could

say. Like if you were not human, you could only

get so high in the rankings and everything. Thrawn...

uh went beyond that he was the only one ever

did and they meant they definitely talked about

that in the book a lot but one of the things

i loved about him is he was a cold calculating

bastard and i the thing that really i really

liked about is he studied other cultures art

to find out how to defeat them Because that was

pretty yeah because it's like he notices things

in their their artwork their strokes Things like

that that made them go that made him realize

here's where their weaknesses Here's how we can

conquer them or take them down and stuff like

that and I thought that was just a really unique

and really cool way to Introduce this enemy who

is you know is a major enemy through the whole

story. So So the main part of the story is we

have Thrawn and the Empire trying to essentially

rebuild after the second Death Star exploded

we have Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie, and soon they

drag Lando into all of it. And Wedge. Poor Wedge.

The thing I liked is they got Wedge to be like

a Focal point at a few points during the story

where in the movies. It was just that pilot that

survived all three movies Who knows maybe he's

the maybe he's the new Sith Lord The actor is

still alive so they could get them a Couple of

times and this is just in heir to the empire

the art my one of my notes was the art is giving

me an eye ache and i know there's no such thing

as an eye ache but like i have without correction

i have 2200 vision so i can see things but they

have to be close up and it's just one of those

things where As I'm cycling through, because

I usually use Comixology's Guided View. So a

431 page trade paperback in Guided View is almost

like double that, like 831, because it's taking

you panel by panel. It's going like storyboard

thing. And just some of the art in this. Well,

I don't know. It just makes me... What I was

going to say is the art in the first in Air of

the Empire looks very stylized. It's very, like...

And in some places, that can really throw you

off, especially when you get, like, zoomed in

or backed out characters. So, like, you go up

close to a character's face, it looks a little

wonky. You push a character a little too far

back, and now there's no definition to the characters.

It... The stylized art they did here works best

when it's like you got that full figure in the

action shots. I thought it worked well in the

action shots. The close -up talking parts, I

thought it didn't work. And the really distant

shots, while the landscape looked beautiful,

the figures, they look like blobs at times. The

second, the Dark Force Rising, I thought the

art was a little too... Thought was good, but

I thought it was a little too photo realism like

it looked too much like the characters and everything

Where my favorite was the the last command art?

Which was a little bit of blend of both you had

a little bit of the you know stylized comic art

with a little bit of oh I recognize who that

is because it looks like that character Yes,

so I did like the third the art and third chapter

the best The art I remember when I first got

to dark force rising Whomever the letter is and

issue number one needs to use a different font.

Oh my god. I can barely read that stuff. Yeah

it just It just sold But Where do we want to

go for story? It's a little thicker Well, one

of the things I wanted to mention was early on

you get introduced to Mara Jade and tailing card

Which I thought tailing card who is like the

head of a smuggler group, I thought was the perfect

name for that. He sound that name sounds like

someone that should be in charge of a smuggling

group. Yeah. And then he's got the ship called

the wild card, which is just brilliant. But The

thing I like with Mara Jade was her story unfolds

as we go through the story. Like right now at

the beginning she is just, she's just his right

-hand man and kind of little play on words there

because later on we find out that she was the

Emperor's hand. Which I will say is another good

story now that you've been introduced to that.

Not to throw another story out there for you.

I'm done. I don't even know if we're gonna do

Dark Empire at this point. to Mara J to know

who she is. There is a short trade out there

called the Emperor's Hand, Mara J the Emperor's

Hand, which kind of delves a lot more into who

she was before meeting up with Talon Card and

everything. All I knew of who she was before

was she was just some whore in Java's palace.

Right. Why? If only she had the chain around

his neck. I will say the one thing that was very

difficult with the story, reading it in the book

and in the comics, I told Mike I've read the...

the books twice in my history. So I haven't read

them a lot, but I read them twice and I've read

the comic once and then I kind of skimmed it

for this evening to refresh my memory on everything.

And then I also did get the audio book for the

first book, The Heir to the Empire, which was

really cool because I had like the Star Wars

sound effects and I had R2 -D2 beeping and all

that, so yeah. The thing that it helped me with

was the pronunciation of some of these freaking

characters. Like you had the Isla Mirri, which

are these creatures that Thrawn carries and Talon

card basically sells because they're from his

home planet or the plant that he's on. They wipe

out the force. So if you're force sensitive or

you can use the force, if you have an Isla Mirri

on you or around you, you can't use the force

anymore. and Thrawn strategically uses that,

which I thought was really cool, because then

he approaches the next character that we get

introduced to that was also very freaking difficult

to pronounce, Joris Kabeath, or Kabaoth, however

you want to pronounce it. But then I found out

it's Jorus Kabaoth, because he uses two U's,

which plays a factor in the stories later. Um,

but yeah, so, and like, Jorus K 'boath, he is

a, um, dark Jedi. Uh, and he, Thrawn approaches

him because he wants another Jedi. He realizes

that by having a, uh, a Jedi, uh, or dark Jedi

on his side, they can do, um, they can help make

sure that they win because what they found out

was the Emperor, what you find on these stories

is the Emperor helped win battles through battle

meditation and It helped the fighters be more

synchronized and everything else and so they

kind of play into the fact that the end when

the Emperor died is when the rebels won because

there wasn't that connection anymore and if you

watch the movies it's Kind of true So they play

into that so they want this dark Jedi to side

with Thrawn wants this dark Jedi to side with

them and the Jedi has a little nuts Okay, a lot

nuts He's like twitchy on coffee from hoodwink.

I mean, oh my god, you know this guy is and now

was the dark Jedi thing was that something that

Dark Horse introduced to the eat like in the

expanded universe. Was that something that was

introduced there? Yeah. Okay, because I'm thinking,

why not just call this guy a friggin' Sith Lord

already? I mean, geez. Right. So... Because he

acts like it. And it seems like they're gonna

do it with the new movies, too, is that Kylo

Ren has not been designated as a Sith Lord. So

just because you're an evil... Jedi, your evil

force user, does not make you a Sith Lord. Yeah,

Dark Horse introduced that concept that there

was a civilization called the Sith that the Dark

Jedi took over and commanded, and they became

Lords of the Sith. That's where the term comes

from. So Kylo Ren in the new movie, he supposedly

is not a Sith. He's an acolyte of Darth Vader

like he he worships Darth Vader, but he's not

actually a Sith. He never got the Sith training

So so yeah, so that is something that Dark Horse

created So yeah, this guy that Thrawn comes up

across comes across. He's a Dark Jedi. He's not

a Sith Lord so I almost wish we were talking

about the Jedi Academy years because that was

the whole you know, that's what I thought This

was going to eventually turn into, because that's

what it eventually does turn into, but when you

first mentioned it, I'm like, oh, OK, cool. I

want to see their kids go around kicking ass

with lightsabers. And I'm like, wait. Nah, you

got a long way to go. This is just her pregnancy.

This is like, you know. Three or four or five

months after Han knocked her up, oh god. Well,

the tip should have been the fact that this story

takes place only five years after Return of the

Jedi. Yeah, that's well, hey, they could have

had twins in five years. They could have, but

they wouldn't have been like three or four. They're

not going to be kicking butt yet. Um, but imagine

to like so, you know, like a lot of that stuff

that they had twins and everything else but imagine

like and this might be the difference is that

imagine there was none of that out there like

There was no sign of anything to do with what

happened to Han and Leia What happened to Luke

all that type of stuff and this is the first

thing you're reading To realize that the Empire

was still even existing was really cool and that

someone took charge of the Empire was cool. But

yeah, Thrawn basically offers the twins to Joris

and says, you know, if you help me, there are

still Jedi for you to train and I'll get you

Luke and Leia, but Leia is also pregnant. And

when you read that, again, you know that they

had kids, but when you read that as the first

time not knowing any of that, You're like, holy

crap, Leia's pregnant, and she's got twins? Knowing

that Leia's a twin? So you know the implications

when it comes to that. At least she didn't die

in childhood. Yes. It's the last thing we need

is Han. No! That's really the last thing we need.

The one panel I did really like though in the

first section was the one where Luke is Faced

off against the Nogri and the Nogri are like

these bodyguard things that Thrawn has hired

to They're like an alien species that are loyal.

They were loyal to Darth Vader because Darth

Vader saved them Even though he didn't really

save them He tricked them Yeah, but they believe

that he saved them so they are loyal to the Empire

because they were loyal to Vader and they send

the Thrawn sends the Nogri out to get Leia and

to capture Luke for Joris and There's a one panel.

It's a full page panel where Luke is staying

there It's a dark alley and it's just his lightsaber

illuminating it and I think it just looks awesome

It's one of the art pieces. I thought looked

really sweet Yeah, and then a little later is

when we find out when we meet up with Wedge and

he talks about Joris Caboath But he talks about

the original Joris Caboath who was a dark Jedi

not Jor -oos Caboath Who you know might as well

spoil it we find out later that Jor -oos Caboath

was a clone clone. Yeah Always comes down to

clones people clones zombies Werewolves and vampires,

you know, it's one of those four and they basically

wanted to clone Jedi's to or dark Jedi's so they

could have a force to go up against the rebels

and everything else, but They found out that

the force kind of messes with their mind a little

bit in the club. You think? They go a little

crazy. They go a lot crazy. When he was saying

about, there's a part in the story where he says

something to the effect of he wants his own clone,

he wants it kept, blah, blah, blah. And then

the clone of Luke shows up and I'm like wait

was that what he was well when he was like I

want this clone taken from sample a 233 what

it was it was he trying to get a clone of Luke

Yeah, so he I mean he just wanted a clone now

right it's up happening later, which we find

out which I thought was Really awesome because

especially for anyone that likes video games

where you always fight your darker self That

seems to be a video game cliche, but I always

love it whenever it happens in a video game is

He he creates a Luke L you UK from the the hand

that was lost at Bespin that hand was recovered

and I thought and so that was the thing that

was cool with this too when these stories came

out It wasn't just, okay, here's further adventures

of these characters that you love, but it had

a lot of ties to the movies and references to

things that happen in the movie and explain some

things that happen in the movies. Now, later

on when the prequels came out, it kind of squashed

some of the stuff that was created in the story,

especially the clone stuff and everything, but

it was still really cool when this first came

out. Yeah, I thought that was so cool because

I'm thinking oh my god They and like I said this

this originally happened about 20 years ago when

Dark Horse did this right? So that was 95. I'm

like, oh my god Somebody at Dark Horse or Timothy's

honor whoever because obviously Zahn wrote the

book first before the comic Yeah, you know came

out. So like oh boy. Well Timothy's on I guess

you've been watching Batman the animated series

because essentially, you know Thrawn is essentially

hard Well and then and making me feel really

old of course I'm reading this book when it came

out. I was 20 years old when it came out. So

Like yeah, I'm thinking okay. I was in college

at the time Probably high school when the very

first book came out Like at the end of high school.

So yeah, that was right about the time I did

start getting into reading a lot more stuff and

I actually attribute these books to reading more

because i was like okay star wars books okay

i like these let me try other books um because

before that it was the books you were forced

to read in school and while i did like some of

those i never because of that i never because

i was forced to read i didn't enjoy reading other

things and then it was once i got out of school

that was like okay let me start enjoying reading

stories um but yeah this like this whole thing

was just amazing but yeah I feel really old now

realizing that the book I have on my shelf that

I bought at that bookstore is over 20 years old.

It's still in pretty good condition considering.

One of the things I wanted to mention too and

I don't and I tried to look for it in the in

the comic here and I don't think it was it was

kind of touchdown but not a whole lot. But it

was one of the really cool things remember I

remember reading in the book itself was Luke

I know they showed Luke going back to Dagobah,

which was awesome But I always wondered how did

like and people have always asked us how did

Yoda stay hidden? When Vader was out there and

was force -sensitive and the Emperor was out

there like couldn't they track him down? So they

explained it in the book because Joris the original

Dark Jedi, not the clone, was living on Dagobah,

and Yoda went there and defeated him. So there

you had the Dark Jedi, the Dark Side, and Yoda's

Light Side became a neutral force with each other,

so it was undetectable to anybody passing by.

And I was like, that's a really cool concept.

They negated the hell out of it later, but it

was a really cool concept when it came out. So

but that's what and that's where the cave came

from that Luke goes into an Empire Strikes Back

is that's where the dark energy was that's where

Yoda defeated Joris Cabo with so Yeah, the symbolism

there, yeah Nobody wants to go into that cave

only take it what's in there only what you take

with you Don't ever leave the DeLorean in that

case, right? Nuclear bomb with you because it's

not gonna be good But I like to that like Luke

gets and this is kind of a throwback to the movies

to Luke gets a calling from Joe Roos Cabo with

like he sends out this these brainwaves basically

Just like Obi -Wan would do and he's he's like,

you know come to me and everything else and Luke

tries but he gets Gets stranded And Talon Card

finds him, which of course then leads to Mara

Jade finding him too, and then we find out how

much she hates him. The beginnings of love in

the air. I swear to God, the whole thing with

them, all I can see is... Steve just standing

off to the side, ready to break him up, and Jerry

asking all the questions. And it's like a whole

episode of the Jerry Springer Show, a whole week

of episodes. It's like, I want to kill you. You

know, five books later, I want to have your babies.

It's like, oh my god. It did take a long time.

It didn't happen overnight. Are you sure? Are

you sure? Talk about love at first sight. But

one of the cool things with it, too, was like,

and that was another thing that they... they

threw back into the movies was that there was

this character in Return of the Jedi and it made,

and of course I'm reading it and I'm going back

and watching Return of the Jedi going, where

the hell is she? Is that she was, Mara Jade was

the hand of the emperor, which meant that she

was like this dark assassin. She was slightly

force sensitive, slightly trained in the force.

She could wield a lightsaber and things like

that. But she was, she was sent by the emperor

to kill Luke Skywalker because the emperor felt

that Luke was a distraction for Vader, that he

didn't have complete control over Vader as long

as Luke was out there. So he was like, let me

send this private assassin that I've been training

that Vader doesn't know about. The problem is

nobody knows, knew about Tamara Jade. Like no

one knew that she was out there. So when, so

she was sent out to Jabba the Hutt's place to

foil what happened there. She tried to get onto

the sail barge. But she was rejected because

she was quote -unquote just a dancer because

that was her cover and So she couldn't go on

the sale barge well then that's how Luke escaped

with the rest of his crew of course and That's

one thing I liked about this even though the

EU has been retconned and The the big guy with

the ears doesn't want anything to do with it

How they how she finds out how Luke was able

to escape. I love that callback when he puts

the lightsaber into her. That was so awesome.

That's how you did it. Oh, that's how you did

it. And that's one of my favorite scenes in all

of all of the Star Wars movies is the whole scene

with Luke on the plank and he flips up in the

air and the lightsaber catches it. I mean, that's

just one of the coolest scenes ever. But but

yeah, so she she was like, you know. Yeah, she

was brain then she was basically brainwashed

by the Emperor to kill Luke and That's why it

never left her so even so then the Emperor dies

and she still has these flashbacks And I don't

know if you've been watching at all any of the

new Jessica Jones Videos on I have not gotten

in okay, so this won't wait anything, but it's

it's really cool And I know it's really new so

I don't want to spoil anything, but basically

she was um mind controlled by this guy called

the purple man uh also known as killgrave and

he and it left such an impression on her that

even once she escaped every once in a while she

would feel like he was right there that's kind

of the same thing with marge 8 even though the

emperor is dead she still feels his presence

she feels still feels like he's talking to her

to tell her to kill skywalker right um so She

you know she the Emperor's dead. She doesn't

really have a mission anymore Vader's gone like

so she that's how she meets up with Talon card

because she has nothing anymore And then also

lo and behold here comes Luke Skywalker, and

she's like holy shit. I was supposed to Supposed

to kill you Let me go ahead and try to finish

that It's Batman Forever all over again with

you two, hold me, thrill me, kiss me, kill me.

But we also find out how deadly the Nogri are

later on in the story too, because one of the

guys kind of screws up, one of the officers,

and Rook, R -U -K -H, he comes up and slices

the dude's head off. and I'm like and he's like

and Thrawn is just like said he's just such a

cold calculating character that he's just like

the error has now been corrected dispose of it

and carry on it's just a head being chopped off

in front of him does not faze him but it was

a cool design for Thrawn too like he's this he's

this blue humanoid character with these red eyes

that almost seem to glow it reminds me of Megatron

from the G one. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no dark blue and red cape

that is almost like Ted. He's essentially Mr.

Sinister of the Star Wars universe. Yeah, he

is. That is really what he looks like in a lot

of respects. Yeah, it's like I'm just waiting

for Luke to say change. But no, when I was referring

to Luke Skywalker is not as emo as Scott Summers.

Thank God. That's true. Now, when I was referring

to the Megatron thing, what I was referring to

is, you know how anytime they went to the commercial

breaks, you would see just Megatron's eyes glowing

as everything faded out? I always pictured that

happening in the Thrawn, like the whole scene

goes black, but you still see his glowing red

eyes. The other thing that was cool in this too

was we got to see Kashyyyk, which is Chewbacca's

home world. Yeah, that was awesome. To my knowledge,

that had never been shown before. You never saw

Kashyyyk before. Originally, in Return of the

Jedi, they originally were going to have Endor

be Kashyyyk, and it was going to be Wookiees

instead of Ewoks. I know everyone hates the Ewoks.

Most everyone hates the Ewoks, but I don't think

having... I think one Wookiee is enough. I don't

hate those. I don't hate the Ewoks at all. Like

I know, like you said, there's a lot of people

that do hate them. A lot of people that do. I

don't mind them at all. In fact, I enjoy them.

I have a lot of Ewok figures and everything else.

But here's the because here's the thing. Everyone's

like, oh, they're the cute little stupid teddy

bears. I'm like, they were going to eat people.

They're not that cute. They were gonna cook C

-3PO, you know, they were gonna cook Han and

Leia. It's like, 3PO, you tell that blah blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

blah because he was going to be a little chewy.

They were going to cook them and eat them. And

I'm like, that's not the sign of a cute little

fuzzy teddy bear. So I do enjoy the Ewoks. I

thought we did get finally a sign of what it

would have been like when we saw Revenge of the

Sith if they had done Wookiees instead. I don't

mind seeing a bunch of Wookiees, but I think

it's cooler when they're on their own. No, I

don't mind either, but I'm saying in Return of

the Jedi. Don't think it would have I just don't

think it would have worked I think it would have

been like you said I think it would have I I

think it would have it worked better having a

whole new species that you ran into Where especially

with where the story was going because obviously

you couldn't have them land on Kashyyyk and Chewbacca

not be able to tell them. Hey, here's all my

buddies So and I think it works better too for

the EU type world because that time period supposedly

a lot of the Wookiees were slaves they so it

wouldn't make sense that you're gonna go to the

Wookie homeworld and There would be a ton of

Wookiees there. They would be all controlled

by the Empire Have you read the current Chewbacca

miniseries that Marvel's doing? I haven't read

it yet, but have you read the current? I've read

the first two issues so far, which I think is

all that's out so far Is it? Yeah, is it? all

in wookie speaking and people expositioning?

Well, they're supporting characters. There is

a really good story and you do just get Chewbacca

saying stuff, but you also get the character

not understanding him, which is good because

then that's how it works out and everything else.

See, that was the coolest thing to me about the

movies is that Han and Lando both, and even sometimes

Leia, the three of them, it's like... Chewbacca

can growl or grunt or you know, Tim Allen whatever,

you know, and they'll just reply something and

we're just supposed to you know, suspension of

disbelief We're just supposed to believe that's

what you know, right? Well the thing I loved

about it and I hope they do this with the force

awakens is Chewbacca would just growl and R2

-D2 would just beep and you can figure out what

the hell they said just by what how the other

characters responded And I thought that was such

a cool thing and they do a pretty good job of

that with the Chewbacca miniseries like the he

said he'll growl something and Even though she

doesn't understand him She kind of is it's kind

of like us like we wouldn't understand them,

but we kind of get an idea of what he means So

so yeah, I actually think it's a pretty good

miniseries I was actually pleasantly surprised

because I was like great Is this gonna be like

a bunch of him growling and me having to figure

out where this story is going? I am a huge, huge

Star Wars fan, but that is one of the worst things

known to man ever created. I base every bad thing

on, I defer to the holiday special. I'm like,

nothing is as bad as that. And we did, and you

know this, I think you know this, we did cover

that on the Star Joe's podcast. Oh my god. So

I had seen, give me a little side tangent here.

I saw it one year because I had never seen it,

even as a little kid I didn't see it. So I wanted

to see it because I heard how horrible it was.

So I start watching it and it fools you in the

first five minutes because it's Han and Chewie

and they're trying to escape because Han needs

to get Chewie home for life day, which is the

Wookiee holiday. And they're in the Millennium

Falcon and they're escaping Star Destroyers.

Like, oh, this is awesome. Why do people hate

this? And then I find out why people hate it.

And it's two hours of your life, you'll never

get back. And it's just so horrible. So then

I told Chuck how bad it was. And he's like, it

can't be that bad. And I says, yeah, that's what

I thought too. And we watched it. We did a movie

commentary because I found a link that showed

the whole thing. And we did a movie commentary.

And him and I are sitting there. And I want to

say, for the first hour, we're doing a pretty

good job of doing our Mystery Science Theater

3000 shtick of like, Picking on the things that

we're seeing there. I'd say about an hour and

a half into it. Chuck is ready to kill me What

did you put me through? And he says to this day

he'll tell people he says I will never forgive

Ryan for that And I'm like I tried to warn you.

I'm sorry, but I tried to warn you So, yeah I

mean I really dig like the story here. I think

it's like I said For me, if it was broken up

a little bit more from what I read, the way I

read it, it would have been easier for me to

get more enjoyment out of it rather than just

sit here for six hours on end. Well, I dare you

to pick up any comic, any comic and read 18 issues

of it in five hours and tell me you loved every

minute of it. Because I find that hard to do

with anything. Well, right. No, and I'm not saying

that, you know, well, it depends on the comic,

but I mean, like. I'm sorry, I can take the first

IDW collection hardcover of Turtles. That's the

first 12 issues of the series in the four minutes.

It's basically 16 issues. I could read through

that, no problem, because I enjoy that. Yeah,

but you'd be done in two hours, because there's

not a lot of words. Compared to this. Now, trust

me. Well, yeah, because that's the thing. That's

not adapted from an actual novel. This is. Exactly.

Yeah, this is dense, and it's because it's from

a novel. And I totally agree, and for those that

might be listening for the first time, on Star

Joe's... I'm not disparaging the Turtles at all

because on Star Joes we cover Star Wars, G .I.

Joe, Transformers, Ninja Turtles, everything

from the 80s and late 70s. So I have those hardcover

collections you're talking about with the Turtles.

I actually love them. I love that whole series.

I think it's amazing. But I know I can read that

a lot faster than I can read this. Exactly. So

let's see here. We've got see where are we? We've

got this whole thing within this story about

them trying to hide Leia from the Empire or from

the clone dude or whatever because he wants her

her babies and it's like i'm thinking what are

you gonna do what you just gonna rip them right

out of her stomach i mean they're not even born

yet like this is again and i hate to be a broken

record folks i really do this is again why i

loathe ryan and telling me to read this first

because they're not even born that was the whole

point when you first mentioned them to me in

the last time we did one of these things was

oh wait until you see their kids and i'm like

okay cool in all fairness to me You I said do

you I said for me to guide you on to what you

want would want to read do you want? Stories

based on the characters, you know from the movie

or do you want? Characters that were never in

the movies because Dark Horse has done both and

you says I would rather read about the characters

I know in the movies That's what I freaking gave

you The twin children were not in the movies

If you want those stories, I'll guide you to

something else. I think I need a new tour guide

for Star Wars. No, we do not. Because anyone

else is going to get you lost in it. But no,

like this had Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie, Lando.

It had all the major players. And I knew it was

a really awesome story. Yeah, the twins are babies

and blah, blah, blah. But that comes later. This

is right, again, it's five years after Return

of the Jedi. They haven't had a whole lot of

time to make babies. They're still trying to

get the New Republic together. And like I said,

I thought the characterization was very good

on those characters. Oh, no. I mean, it absolutely

is. I was kind of wondering who, like, you know,

because... you know obviously we have uh Grand

Admiral Thrawn and then we have the the clone

Dark Jedi dude and I was kind of wondering out

of the two of them who was going to rise to be

the the better or worse villain out of the two

and they're kind of both on equal ground because

they both want different things and that was

the thing that was cool about it you hit it right

on the head is there was points where you're

like wow the crazy jedi is somebody that's really

interesting and then you read something with

thron you're like wow he's really interesting

but in a totally different way and like you said

they both kind of rise to this level of being

the villain i don't really think one stands out

over the other now popularity wise thron has

become a more popular character but i think story

wise both are pretty much an equal footing when

the end finally comes so yeah um one of the things

too and we kind of touched on this a little bit

but like uh luke he was rescued by talon card

he was brought you know back to that planet where

the east lemuria are so luke cannot sense the

Force at all and he's kind of like being blind.

He escapes because the Empire is there so they

kind of hide Luke and Luke takes that as his

point to try to escape. Mara Jade sent after

him and this is where they get stuck in the forest

together at night. He's not in touch with the

Force. He's basically a dead man if she didn't

save him and it's basically she saves him and

this is where Luke kind of finds out that she

has Has had some force background or at least

has had experience with a lightsaber She's basically

saves his life because she wants to kill him

But he ends up saving her life He you know, that's

the start of Mara Jade not wanting to kill Luke

They end up falling in love. They run off to

Naboo have this really stupid slow. I'm sorry.

That's I also love the design of the born scurs

or whatever the beasts that were on that point.

Oh god Yeah, those were awesome the dog like

yeah, and they have like these whipping tails

that poison in them and yeah, they were nasty

and Then you get like said you get the no agree

who find I thought this was cool It was weird,

but it was cool the no agree meet up with leia

like they they've captured her and everything

else but then they like they smell her and they

and they smell vader because it's her kid uh

or she's his kid and they refer to her as and

again pronunciation totally sucks with this uh

malarash uh malarash yeah something like that

and uh that's what they refer to her as and and

it means the heir of lord vape darth vader so

um So they're loyal to her now, and she uses

that to get the upper hand on Thrawn definitely

near the end. And that was the one thing that

was interesting at the end, too. I didn't feel

like they, like when, spoiler, Thrawn dies at

the end. I didn't feel like they really, in the

comic, really, they implied how he was killed.

they didn't come right out and show the Nogri

killing him and and that's what happens is the

Nogri turn on him and Well, when you abuse the

help, that's what's going to happen. Right. I

mean, especially if they're finding someone else

that can treat them better. Yeah. I mean, it's

only, it's only so many times people I can throw

Ryan under the bus over here. Before I lash out.

Yes, exactly. Until I'm on my podcast. Show it

that Mike guy. But no, it's so. One thing I also

wanted to point out, it was a super small thing,

but I mentioned that a lot of action figures

came from these stories, which was amazing. There

was also one action figure that came out, or

at least the design of the figure came out because

of this book, which was the Space Trooper. They

had never done a Space Trooper before, and if

you look on, I can't remember what page it is,

they... I know certain points, but yeah, there's

like this space trooper out there. There's I

have the action figure that is that has that

design on it. It was very cool. Yeah. That's

kind of like and this is a completely different

tangent, folks, but it's not going to be too

long. It's kind of like when they finally released

Queen Marlena, they put her both in her royal

garb and her space suit outfit. Yeah. But no,

that space trooper. that space trooper almost

reminded me of the uh... the blue space suited

superman in jail you okay and uh... when amazo

was about to come back to earth and they only

use that thing once and it was like wow and all

the space trooper was awesome because that's

one thing i was not expecting you expect the

storm troopers everywhere you don't expect them

in space But it was pretty sweet, and the troopers

were always things I gravitated towards. They

just were cool designs. And I know there's a

lot of jokes about the First Order look because

they look like ducks. But I still think it's

a cool design, and it kind of follows the evolution

of the troopers. If you go from the Clone Wars

and everything else to the First Order, it's

just this natural progression of how the design

changes and everything else. But one of the things,

too, was just to give some significance to the

titles of some of these stories. So you have

Heir to the Empire. So it's, you know, there's

a lot of meanings with that. So you have Thrawn,

who took over the empire. You have Leia, who

is the heir to Darth Vader and the Nobri recognize

that. You have Luke, who's taking over, you know,

a new Jedi Academy and everything, or is looking

to start a new Jedi Academy. But he feels like

he still needs some training. You have Cabo with

who is like trying to get new Jedi under him

So you have all these things that play into the

air to the Empire Dark Force rising It seems

so obvious at first because you're just like

oh, it's the dark force and it's rising It's

like the force awakens, but the dark force rising

is actually referring to a fleet of dreadnought

ships That were called the dark force and they

were believed to have been lost and there are

these powerful ships And tailing card knows where

they're at so and it's like and he tells Mara

Jade that he's like I'm gonna he's I'm thinking

about something to the Empire, but He says that

seems the most obvious move, but he says I'm

also thinking about selling to the rep to the

New Republic because he says that might be the

smarter smarter long -term move, so We also get

introduced to Garm Bell Iblis he's another character

that has a long history uh with Han Solo like

he Han Solo at least knew of him um but he's

he's this military strategist guy and they try

to recruit him um he left the the rebellion a

long time ago for very good reasons and Han kind

of convinces him well couldn't you return for

very good reasons also um but that was a cool

thing too because here we are in the middle of

the second chapter and we're getting introduced

to another new character who is Plays a big role.

He plays a big factor in the story So they didn't

just cram all the new characters at the beginning

going. Hey, look at all the new characters we

created Yeah, this isn't This isn't Sunbow. They're

not gonna just sit there and put 120 new characters

in one three -part story, right? You know This

isn't rebirth people But we do get the look back

at Vader saving the Nogri, like Leia gets told

the whole story, and that was kind of some cool

shots there that they did. Luke finally meets

up with Caboeth and tells him, I want to learn

from you and everything else, because Luke doesn't

know that he's in cahoots with... Thrawn and

everything he just knows this is a new this is

a Jedi master who could train me because I'm

not a master But then then he kind of sees how

crazy he is because he uses force lightning and

As soon as he used the force lightning I was

like, okay Please just start calling him a damn

Sith Lord because those are the only guys that

use the force light dark Jedi's can too It's

just using the dark side of the force. It's I

know I know I know it's yeah, but okay How many

people have used it? Emperor Palpatine. That's

it. And I think... Wait, what? And Emperor Palpatine.

Well, I was going to say, Duku used it briefly.

Yeah. Against Yoda. Yeah, that's true. But that

was Duku. May he rest in peace. But at the time

of this story coming out, those movies were not

out. True. No, I understand. Oh, yeah, this should

have been a total sign especially considering

Luke got zapped with that lightning Yeah, someone

using that lightning and be like I'm done with

you Yeah, really? It's like okay. See you later.

Bye I also thought it was cool that Like again

kind of delving into who Mara Jade was I thought

she was probably the most complex character like

they really did a good job of Revealing her slowly

and who's right? over the three series. I didn't

want that part of it to come faster, but I wish

that was more of a main focus than either of

what Clone, Jedi Master, or Thrawn were doing.

Don't know is as I'm reading this. I'm like,

yeah, I want to know more about Mara Jade Give

me more about that character and give it to me

right now. Don't make me wait Until halfway to

the end you pick up the Emperor's hand But no

one of the things too I think was interesting

is I don't think they well they didn't how can

you realize this but like they didn't know which

if any characters would really take off with

the fandom. They did these slow reveals of these

characters and integrated them into the story

with the characters we know, which is exactly

what The Force Awakens seems like it's going

to do, which I think is a very smart move. Here's

all the characters you know, and here's some

new characters, and we're going to slowly tell

you their story along with the characters you

know. I think that's what they did with Mara

Jade. That's what they did with Talon Karrd and

Thrawn and everything. It's like, OK, here's

the new characters that are impacting the characters

you know. But yeah, we get like Thrawn reveals

that he knows who Mara Jade is. And that's when

you hear about the Emperor's hand and everything

else. So we also get to see the clone. Again,

this was something that was changed, but that

there was these Sparti cylinders that Luke and

Han come across that they're like, holy crap,

we have clone troopers and clones are being made

and that's not good. Yeah, the clone troopers

all as I was and I and I know I couldn't expect

this now, but I was I'm like When are we going

to Camino already? Like when are we going to

the rainy planet, but I know obviously that did

Yeah, exactly. I know that didn't exactly happen

And then on page three was it 325 you finally

you Mike, you get your twins. They're born. Yeah,

they're born. That's about it. But here's the

thing that's cool. OK, so here's the thing that's

cool about, too, is the legacy of this story,

the legacy of these books. And you didn't know

this when these books came out. The internet

was still a very infantile thing when these books

came out. So you didn't know that the plan was

that these authors were going to communicate

with each other. You didn't know that the writers

of the books were going to communicate with the

writers of the comics. So you didn't know that

all these stories were going to use the same

characters, they were going to use the same names,

they were going to use same places and stuff

like that, and that their stories were going

to interconnect with each other in a lot of ways.

So when the names of, you know, when the babies

were born here and they're named Jason and Jaina,

and I'm like, oh, that's... Cool, Jason and Jaina,

but they're babies. I'm not going to know anything

else. And then later on, I'm reading stories

of Jason and Jaina. I'm like, well, holy crap,

they use the same names. That's awesome. And

then things come out later on the internet when

it's a little bit more robust. And then you read

these articles that, yeah, all these authors

and creators, they communicated with each other

constantly to make sure they weren't stepping

on each other's toes. And they did a pretty good

job of that. But yeah, so you get the twins here.

yes they become fully functional teenagers characters

later i as i'm reading through this there's certain

things that just pop out to me from the movies

and in part of dark force rise and rising they

mentioned the bobbins yes and all's i can think

of is many bobbins died to bring us this information

that's all i thought of when i read it But that's

when we find out that's who Borsk failure is

is he's this political character who is really

a Jackass for the longest time and then you realize

he's not a jackass He he's doing these things

very strategically and he and he's actually a

pretty good guy But for the longest time you're

like he's just getting in the way. He's just

being a a nuisance and everything um... but yeah

that that's the first time you saw what a bothan

was was like like you just knew that they were

before that from the movies knew they were spies

and that they were good at being spies uh...

except for a lot of them dying uh... oh god it

had to come in somewhere folks you bastard you

killed kenny the bothan you bastards It's like

you killed Kenny. Oh my god But yeah, so we also

get you know, we we get Mara Jade taking a turn

for not wanting to kill Luke But you can tell

she's still traumatized by the Emperor like she's

still hearing the whisper of you will kill Luke

Skywalker and well, it's kind of like Leia when

she was in space she like has spatial pregnancy

failed or something a couple times and it's like

it's only when i'm around where the death star

explode well first of all why the hell are they

going around with the damn death star explode

again what do you think you'd want to be the

furthest away from that place no one's gonna

look for you there yeah that's true no one's

gonna look inside a dinosaur's mouth in an asteroid

I did like the one shot, too. It's very cheesy

comic book -y, but on page 348 where you have

Talon Card and all the guys at the bar taking

on the troopers and stuff like that. They all

got their blasters pointed right over the bar.

It's just a cool shot. Like I said, I did like

the art in the third volume a lot better compared

to the first two. Yeah, the art when it came

to... The Last Command got a lot better. And

I'm sorry, folks. It's just me. I'm a modern

comic book reader. I'm not an 80s, 90s comic

book reader. That's why you have me here. Well,

duh. I'm just not. And any time I see... I mean,

it's one of the reasons why... We don't do a

lot of the old Batman stories inside the pull

bag or when we did do the The essential classics

reading some of the it's just the art It's not

the story that I have problems with as I said

before It's the art and I'm sorry some of the

when you when you get older when you get like,

you know past like when you get No, no, no, I'm

saying older as in the past. I already knew I

was old and crotchety just like you. I mean,

hell, you know, you're... I'm not crotchety.

I'm excited. Right. I have not let old age bring

me down yet, at least. I have a lot of... I'm

just waiting for you to admit you have a cow

named Norman in the backyard. Anyway, so when

you go back to like the 70s and the 60s and it's

they had like five colors, they had black, white,

red, and blue, and I just can't do that when

it comes to art. Even some of the stuff in the

90s like this, like we already said, the art

in the first two books was a little, by the third

book it got better. And I like it because, and

granted now, I grew up, the 90s is when I started

really getting heavy into comics. So for me,

this is the type of comic art I was introduced

to. Um, and they always say like the stuff you're

introduced to is the stuff that kind of is near

and dear to your heart. So, um, in, in a lot

of respects. So, um, so the art really does not

bother me at all. Um, throughout the whole thing,

I do think that the third chapter is way better

than the first two. Um, I, I can definitely see

how the first chapter is probably the weak. of

them all because it is a lot more stylized so

it doesn't appeal to as many people. Wait till

we get to Dark Empire if you haven't opened that

yet. Ladies and gentlemen, my two favorite colors

ever since I was a kid has always been black

and purple. Don't ask me why it always has been.

Oh, you should love it. Except it's the pastel

purple. It's the light. No, I want the dark purple.

Okay, so in the first two parts of this story,

at points we have the TIE fighters. You see the

TIE fighters, and again, I understand it was

20 years ago. I get that it's a product of its

time, but I just sat here and I opened on Comixology,

Vader down number one. And the first panel beyond

the standard Star Wars crawl with the credits

and the story and whatever, the first panel that

I open up to is Vader's TIE fighter in your face

in hyperspace. And I know it's a comparative

of what the art was 20 years ago to today's standards,

but... It's just like I like that polished look

and a lot of the art in this is So far from being

polished that it isn't even funny And well the

thing I will say too is like you're you're also

comparing it to and I know you know this but

you're also comparing it to uh... marvel is creating

a comic that they know is going to be successful

that they know that they're going to make their

money back so i didn't hire the best quality

artists to do that work for you back then dark

horses like all right let's try this and it's

not going to put a lot of money into it so let's

just throw the spaghetti on the wall and see

if it sticks so i could be wrong but and you

know are my co -hosts uh... shannon robert my

like chastise me because they might be like you

don't know who that is but like i read the artists

in this book and i'm like i have never heard

of this guy ever exactly so so yeah so i mean

when you're comparing artists it's not like you're

going okay this is 90s Olivier Coypel versus

2015 Olivier Coypel. This is like 2015 Olivier

Coypel versus John Smith from the 90s. People

are like, who's John Smith? And it's like, exactly.

So he married Pocahontas. I do like, like I said,

I do like the art, but I grew up with the art.

I definitely like the third. the third volume

the best when it comes to the art um I and we'll

get in I'm sure we'll get into it when we cover

Dark Empire but I do like the art in Dark Empire

but I will definitely say that is very very subjective

there's there's I sometimes I worry about referring

people to Dark Empire because I know some people

are very art directed and some people are very

story directed I am very story directed so to

me I can deal with bad art if I have a really

good story uh... for me i can i'm very story

directed for the most part but it will like i

said i read these two comics ology dot com and

no they're not going to say that all should uh...

i read these these through their guide you because

i like how that works and regardless of the story

if a bad image pops up or an image that just

makes my face do all sorts of weird ticks and

just kind of thing it's like yeah there's a problem

with that art well here's the thing too I will

say in this again a sign of its times and like

you said we I know you already know this but

back then there was no such thing as guided No,

I know so they did like it you they create the

art based on what's going on at that time And

when you look at it as just a full page, it doesn't

look it doesn't stand out as glaring when it's

like guided view You're you're zooming in on

stuff that probably should never have been zoomed

in Overall the story for Thrawn trilogy. I really

enjoyed it. I didn't really have like I said,

I wish it was more Mara Jade centric than what

the two villains are eventually trying to do

And I know I'll you know if I read other things

with her I know I'll get more of that and that's

that's fine And that was the wrong never was

that was the fun thing for me was like they came

out the Mara Jade Hand of you know the hand of

Emperor's hand. I think it's called When that

came out I was like well, I wanted to learn more

about this character so that was the cool thing

when this expanding universe was starting was

like It's like they couldn't get stuff out fast

enough for the people wanting to devour more

about these new characters. They had no idea.

I really don't think they had any idea that people

were interested in new characters, but they tried

it and all of a sudden people were like, I want

to read more about these new characters. I already

know Liu Kang and Leia. I want to know about

this person who I have no background for. Yeah,

absolutely. It's Mara Jade by the Emperor's hand

So but yeah, I mean go read this story folks

if you want to see the birth of Jason and Jaina

First of Mara Jade and Luke's No, and actually

by the end of this they they I mean she does

Doesn't want to kill him anymore, but it's not

like they're you know ready to walk down the

aisle yet either. Well, they do eventually do

that because they eventually have, you know,

been Skywalker and I'm like, oh, really? By the

end of this story, though, you're not in that

place yet. So, Mara Jade is... No, no, absolutely.

By the end of this story, by the end of the Thrawn

Trilogy, no, you're not. See, originally, and

again, you know, I'm not trying to throw you

under the bus, but I probably will anyway, the

way I thought that you were explaining this to

me was that... Throughout the three books we

see the twins grow up so by the third book it

would have been their adventures and Sadly, that's

not what you just need to ask me more questions

Again, I'm not taking blame. I'm blaming you

On a scale of zero to five stars What would you

give the throng trilogy overall me personally

again, and it's it's subjective because of when

I read it And again, I read the books too, so

the books give a lot more depth. If I was rating

the books, I would give them a five out of five.

The comic, I would probably dip down to a four.

Again, with some of the art things that we talked

about and everything. And because they have to,

they took out some of the elements that I read

in the book that I enjoyed so much. But you have

to do that with the comics. Yeah, because you

know, you can't oh, you know, it's it's kind

of like a TV show. Oh, we removed it for time,

right? You'll see it in the DVD Yeah deleted.

So there's a reason why they're looking at daredevil

as a mini series on Netflix and Jessica Jones

is a mini series on Netflix rather than making

those a movie is because they want to delve more

into the characters you Condense that if you

make it a movie same thing here if you you're

talking about this being 18 issues It would have

been 18 issues for the first book, and you still

wouldn't have touched on everything that happened

in the book. Overall, for the story itself, and

for some of the, I did enjoy some of the art,

but some of it was, and I get it, it's 20 year

old art, but even looking at just single page

or two pages, as Comixology has those selectors

as well, The art to me just it's too gritty.

It's too It's too much lines than enough color

if that makes any sense in certain parts of it

I'm gonna give it a three and a half out of five.

I did really enjoy the story I really enjoyed

getting to see the care of the characters. I

knew again I enjoyed getting to know some of

the characters that they were introduced here

So yeah, there is one thing I'm curious about

I don't know if you've had a chance to see them

at all or not But especially because you're talking

about the you were talking earlier about some

of the color, you know There's only like five

and five colors. They could work with back way

back in the day Which is probably an exaggeration,

but I know exactly what you mean so I don't know

if have you seen the the recolored versions of

the original Star Wars series by Marvel Okay,

so the only the only thing that I've seen Star

Wars series by Marvel is the new book the new

ongoing Star Wars the new ongoing for Vader Leia's

miniseries Lando's miniseries and Chewie's miniseries

and now we were getting Vader down. Yeah So that's

really where like this is the first time Tron

trilogy was my first foray into anything The

Star Wars beyond what's beyond what's currently

going on So the one thing I was going to mention,

and I can send you some images just so you can

kind of see what they did was, and it plays into

what you're talking about, was the original Marvel

series that came out in the late 70s. They did,

of course, an adaptation of A New Hope and Empire

Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. And then

they had the series in between all that telling

other stories. Mm -hmm, so it was very much comic

book art of the time. So what they did was Marvel

took those just the three movies So they didn't

do the whole series, but just three movies. They

did a hardcover collection for each one and They

did they used the same art, but they used modern

-day coloring techniques Okay, it is Amazing

what they did like you would think you were reading

a modern -day Comic book and I think with the

art here if you if it had modern -day coloring

to it that might Change change your thought on

it because I don't in some in a lot of cases.

I don't think it's the art I think it could be

the coloring that or the inking that's kind of

throwing it off sometimes Yeah, but yeah at least

I'll send you a couple images just through Facebook

just so you can kind of see what they did like

the before and after and you You'd be amazed

at like just what color a coloring change did

to the art and everything. So absolutely all

right folks well we like I said we recorded this

right before Thanksgiving this is actually gonna

air December 2nd 2015 coming up next after this

we've got Dark Empire right that one I'm that

one we might do battle cuz that's my favorite

of all time All as I know about it is it's supposedly

when Luke goes bad or something that's really

all I've really heard about it and that's One

of the reasons why I wanted to check it out.

Yeah, it's cool So I know we've kind of kind

of termed this month dark side December We're

not doing Star Wars coverage all throughout this

month because we're gonna have three episodes

that are non Star Wars coverage because we kind

of have to Dude I'm sorry after Thrawn and after

what probably dark Empire is gonna be I need

something non -Star Wars. So in episode 121,

Steve and I are going to do Batman Beyond 2 .0,

volume 3, Mark of the Phantasm. And then Amy,

Nicole, and I are going to come back with Gem

and the Holograms 7 and 9, Viral, and then the

Gem and the Holograms Holiday Special. And then

Ryan and I will be back to do Shattered Empire,

which is the new 4 -issue mini -series that is

supposed to tie events from Jedi to Awakens.

And I will say, I'm OK with what you're doing,

because I think Gem is awesome. And I also, I

mean, we're not even doing all Star Wars on my

show. So we're going to be touching on movies

from the 80s. We're going to be touching on probably

do an animated episode of G .I. Joe, which we've

had a lot of fun doing. What is it the droids

and Ewoks? Oh You've talked about that Unfortunately,

I might be the only one that has access to any

of those So they did come out with like they've

never come out with the full series of those

cartoons, but I heard that they're supposed to

which I will have them if they do, but they did

come out with like two DVDs a long time ago where

each one had like 10 episodes of each of those

cartoons. So I have those, but I've heard rumors

and rumblings that they're talking about releasing

the full series on DVD or Blu -ray or whatever,

in which case, yeah, I mean, again, it's licensed

to print money. Plus it's Disney and Star Wars.

Yeah. It plays into all that for them. It gives

them something for the kids to watch and all

that. So yeah, I'm excited if they do release

that, because I remember watching those cartoons

when I was a kid. Big surprise. And I did get

kind of the cool thing. I mentioned this on our

show. The cool thing I did find out, because

I'm 40. And so when the first Star Wars movie

came out, I did not see it in the theater. Obviously

because you were only three at the time. I was

about one and a half at the time It came out

in 77. I was born in 75 but They did re -release

Star Wars in the movie theater right before Empire

came out, the year before Empire came out. So

that was in 79. So I was three and a half. And

when I went down to visit my parents in Florida,

I knew I saw Empire in the theater and I knew

I saw Return of the Jedi in the theater. I have

vivid memories of those. But I had these faded

memories of maybe I saw Star Wars or maybe I'm

just thinking I saw Star Wars in the theater.

So I asked my dad if he ever took me to see Star

Wars and he said, yeah, he said, I didn't get

to take you when you were, you know, when it

first came out, cause you were too young. But

he says you were about three and a half or so

when the next one, when it came out again for

re -release and I took you then. And so I found

out that some of the memories I had that I thought

I had for Empire, as far as things that happened

at the movie theater were actually memories from

the first Star Wars. And so that was really cool

to find out because then I was like, okay, I

have technically seen all, every single Star

Wars movie in the theater when they came out,

including the Clone Wars movie that came out

to theaters. So I am pumped for the Force Awakening.

Are you so pumped that you're going to go to

the super giant event where they show all seven

all in a row? I know they're doing some places.

here in the U .S. are doing episode one to episode

seven in number order, story order, so... The

only reason I am not doing that... It's because

I have no more time off left from work. I have

just all my vacation days. I could use a sick

day, I guess, if I wanted to, but my sick days

carry over to the next year. I'd rather kind

of accumulate those as much as possible. But

yes, I am out of vacation days, so I am not going

to be doing that. But if I had a vacation or

a personal day from work, I totally would have

done that. I don't know when I would have went

to the bathroom, maybe during credits with everybody

else, but... Well, I assume. No, I don't know,

because I've never been to one of these things.

I know they did it with phase one and phase two

for Marvel. So I would assume between each movie

they would have... Oh, don't assume that. I would

assume. I would assume they just figured that

you're going to go during the credits. I'm just

saying you know I have to do because I love John

Williams music also, so it's it's tough because

I want to sit there and hear it and That's another

thing coming up here in Darkside December folks

I hopefully am going to have seven written reviews

for all seven scores hopefully so maybe that'll

be coming up but like I said next time we're

gonna do Dark Empire and see if if Luke really

does you know give into his fear and his anger

and all that stuff well if you're looking for

that you you'll be happy you won't be blaming

me as much anymore You might not like the art

and I'll admit that I like the art but it's not

for everyone I will freely admit that but Okay,

I've looked through the first few panels of it

and Please tell me it changes from off of that

purple. It's purple the whole way. Oh, it changes

colors That's yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm

not saying the arts. I'm saying the colors not

the art style Yeah, the colors change based on

things that are going on so So you'll get some

reds and some oranges and stuff, but it's a it's

a consistent art style through throughout so

yeah Alright folks Make your greatest game in

the comics and we will catch you next time You

underestimate the power of the dark side if you

will not fight then you will meet your destiny

I meant to ask you what everybody Everybody on

the entire internet is bitching and complaining.

Where's Luke? Where's Luke? I don't care I So

that's my opinion. I don't fucking care. I don't

want to see him in the fucking trailer I want

to be surprised when I go to episode 7 I want

to be surprised if he shows up if he doesn't

show up if he shows if he shows up in an end

credits sequence Here's the thing. We know he's

in the movie. He right he was filmed We know

he's in the he's in the casting and all that

type of stuff. We know he's in the movie I agree

with you. I think I don't think he's gonna be

an end -credit scene In fact, I don't even think

there's gonna be an end -credit scene, but because

Star Wars has never done that it would be kind

of weird if it did It's Disney and it's also

partially Marvel and I get a little oh believe

me I'll stay till the end even if there isn't

an end -credit scene, but I'm with you on the

fact that there is a reason they're not showing

him and I'm okay with that because I'm sure that's

part of the big reveal I can speculate all day

as to why and what's gonna happen and stuff like

that and that's just fun because being a geek

but Yeah, I don't give a damn if they don't show

them I would rather like you I'd rather just

wait and see what happens in the movie theater,

so They haven't shown Leia either to my knowledge.

They've only shown her briefly when she's hugging

Han Okay, okay, so yeah, but I mean And they

do show her in the in another trailer They show

in her command center with c3po behind her, but

it's like millisecond scenes She's barely show

and I'm sure she has a bigger role than that

because they've been she's been going on the

tours of all the interviews and stuff like that

You don't do that unless you have a decent part

in the movie. So Did you see that Most recent

Jimmy Kimmel thing yes The Jimmy Kimmel special

or whatever it was. Where Chewie's on the roof.

Yes. Essentially pulling a rig. Yes. And Harrison

Ford goes up there. Yeah. I thought it was pretty

funny, actually. Because the part I liked about

it was where Harrison Ford's just like, yeah,

let him go ahead and jump. I don't give a damn.

And then Adi's like, fuck you guys. The thing

one thing that I found really funny I got to

watch the full Jimmy Kimmel thing and he did

an interview with with the cast and he's talking

to John Boyega and John Boyega I think is like

South African that's what his accent sounds like

and so his he's they asked him like who did you

tell first and he says well I told my agent first

but he goes my that I got the part but he says

I told the funniest reaction I he said I got

was from my dad and he impersonates his dad and

his dad got a really you know he plays this really

heavy South American South African accent and

he's just like dad dad I got you know I got the

part I got the part in Star Wars he's like oh

I'm so happy for you I can't believe it you've

got the part in Star Wars that is so amazing

what is Star Wars because internationally like

yes Star Wars is big across the world but internationally

it's not as big as it is in the US and of course

Disney's trying to change that and they will

I'm just I'm just waiting for them to add Leia

to the princess lineup at this point honestly

they have to You're gonna see Leia, you'll see,

because they're playing up the female characters

a lot more these days, which I'm grateful for

because it was pretty limited before that. I

love the new character of Rey. I think she's

gonna be the focal point of the whole movie.

I think John Boyega will be too, but I think

she is, I think she's the Luke Skywalker of this

movie. Like she's the character you're gonna

start with for the most part and stay focused

on for most of the movie. Yeah, but the whole

thing with Luke in the trailers, it's like yeah,

I don't really care Yeah, I don't really can't

wait till I see it happen And then when I see

and then somebody else started it with fucking

Civil War that came out like well, we're spider

-man. I don't want it I know spider -man is gonna

be in Civil War. But again, I don't care that

he's not in the credit scene But even if it's

not yeah, like you said, he's it's he's gonna

be in it. I'll see him when he's in it I have

a really bad feeling about this. You've just

heard the latest episode of The Pullback, the

GCRN's comic review and discussion podcast. There

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