IDW TMNT Volume 4: Sins of the Fathers Review

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Polebags. Back issue classics. Join us as we

talk about comics from yesteryear. From DC, Marvel,

and more. So open your ears to hear our discussion.

the older continuities as the back issue classics

are also what's in the pull bag hello and welcome

to the pull bag this is yet another back issue

classics so far in the month of April we've had

two origins episodes and right now we are jumping

back into the sewers I am your host if you want

Mike joining me is Joe Reed hello sir hello there

how are you I'm well That's good Yeah, it's it's

time to kick some shell yet again turtles IDW's

turtles volume four sins of the fathers This

one was really interesting it's I'm loving how

the story is progressing in this series Yeah,

it does not it does not turn for the worse So

far yet. I don't know what issue I'm on now,

but it's it's just so good I can on you the listeners

you you're all probably tired of hearing me say

that but it really is quite good Satisfying.

Oh, yeah, most definitely and the back copy of

the trade says the forces of good and evil marshal

on multiple fronts the turtles have a new mission

but shredders ambitions could put an end to it

before it begins meanwhile crank unveils his

master plan how far will the turtles have to

go in order to defend themselves I told you this

off air that a couple weeks before we recorded

this I picked this trade up off my table and

I opened it and I looked at it and I looked at

the the the title page where it lists all the

you know story by just all all the credits and

then I and then I actually went past that to

open it to the first page and I'm like oh god

they're playing twister I have to put this down

right now because if I don't I'm going to end

up reading through this before we even get to

record it I believe the art has changed in this.

The creative team has. The story is by Eastman

and Tom Waltz. A script by Tom Waltz. Art by

Andy Kuhn. A new guy who I don't recognize outside

of this book yet, but I will. Colors by Rhonda

Paterson. She's back. Letters by Sean Lee. Sean

Lee's back. Series edits by Bobby Kernau. So

but yeah, it's a slightly new art style It does

remain true to what we've seen so far. I Think

the turtles are all colored a little bit better

Here maybe it's the drawings I don't know but

in this opening chapter of of issue 13 when they're

playing twister They look a better shade of green

than they have a little bit to me I don't know

if it's that or if it's the fact that the bit

the bandanas are being colored a little bit more

brightly But everybody's playing twister So So

interesting to open this especially after what

happened in issue 12. Yes, it's gives you a chance

to take a breath after a very heavy heavy story

arc and oh absolutely and I I'm very thankful

that this book can only change those artists

when the story arc changes I kind of like that

let somebody new in and it's not like I'm reading

Guardians of the Galaxy where the artists change

every three or four pages that's driving me nuts

like am I reading the same comic I can't even

tell Boy yeah, I'm not Guardians is not my cup

of tea whatsoever I like bendis, but it's uh

I'm mostly reading it to stay caught up and ready

for the movie But even then the that that book

they've just seemed to use it as crossover fodder.

I mean it was Don't know some galaxy ending thing

before and now it's trilogy in grades You know

let the guardians be the guardians. I need to

know what I'm supposed to watch for in the movie

Yeah, yeah So they have this giant crash of twister

and Mikey's like dude. That was sick best two

out of three What are you talking about? How

the heck can you tell you and tell who won? Oh

my god, I love how they're With this new artist

and the new coloring here. I love how their personalities

kind of come out a little bit more they've been

there the the the individual personalities, but

I Don't think they've been as bright as they

are at least in this first scene. Mm -hmm Well,

you know, it's downtime. They're not just saying

he on swinging their weapons at each other We

get to let him let him be themselves and let

them be teenagers for a moment Mm -hmm and I

Love the thing that Raph says at the bottom of

the next page and here. I thought you were the

smart one of the bunch And second smartest Whatever

of course Donnie has to has to jump in And then

we get to splinter who Actually looks a little

bit more like a rat this time. I can safely say

this trade I have absolutely no complaints, but

these four issues of how splinter is designed

Page five bottom right. I still think that's

a dog Somebody who's tried it It's hard to do.

Oh, no, no, no. I know. Yeah, I know it's hard,

but like. He just even on the front cover of

the trade, it's the it's the cover for with him

holding the sword. Even that looks like an actual

rat, of course, he looks like a rat with a very,

very long ass beard tied up in a ponytail. I

love the. Is that a Fu Manchu? Is that what you

would call it? I don't know. I don't know. I'm

sure one of our listeners will correct us on

a forum somewhere. I'm sure, I hope. Comment

on the website post. So, yeah, like you said,

they're having some downtime, Splinter's having

some tea, and all of a sudden, wham, a defeated

and broken down and basically beaten the shell

out of Casey Jones stumbles into Into the shop

and of course it it's referencing what we talked

about last time with what happened in the Casey

Jones One -shot story in the micro series And

Raph is like screw this I'm going That's one

thing I absolutely loved about this story was

the fact that you have Mikey Donnie and Leo and

Casey and April taking care of Casey and then

you have Splinter off trying to find Raph and

teaching Raph a lesson and I gotta say with this

story, Raph and Splinter, you can definitely

tell that they are father and son. Which is a

dynamic that we haven't seen before. Before this

it's making them both much more real characters

splinter wasn't always the stoic Meditative quiet

does everything right guy. He has a history where

he's made a lot of mistakes and he's using this

as an opportunity to Help his sons not make the

same mistakes. Oh Yeah, absolutely I will say

that there was a brief moment in the 90 film

where Where splinter did sit raft down and talk

to him about his anger? So I know that we don't

see a lot of that in the movie on splinter's

side But it was a nice little father -son moment

on film so April walks in with donuts and she

sees that Casey is beaten up we then We then

go to Karai who is fighting the foot ninja Some

interesting revelations in this story, ladies

and gentlemen. This will pay off with Secret

History of the Foot Clan, I think. Oh, I'm sure

it will, yeah. This is just me coming from the

2003 cartoon. I've always thought that Karai

was Shredder's daughter. In this... He's her

grandfather. I... It's... I'll ease your concerns

now and say she's his granddaughter. Wink. That's...

Oh, God. No, it's good. Trust me. They don't

screw anything up in this book. They really don't.

No, no, no, no, no. That's not what I'm saying

oh, God about. It's because they actively say

in this trade... are in these issues that she

rebuilt the foot to what it was supposed to be

from her father screwing it up uh -huh so don't

don't tell me it's one of those one of those

incest things where he's her grandfather and

father nope oh my god okay it will you will be

you'll be pleased okay and she's she's actively

defying him because he says that she's not ready

yet and she you know then goes to to defend her

her position and on on the page where he says

again I gotta say I'm still not a fan of shredder

As far as his design goes Overall with the can

openers and and everything else. I like it I

I think there's too much facial feature in his

eyes like around his eyes like around his temples

I think there's too much face exposed on that

bottom panel It's just it's a little strange

for me. I mean, I'm not expecting them to switch

him to you know gray Black and purple cloak and

dagger and all that but it just I don't know

the red just kind of It's off -putting to me

a little bit So then she goes like I said she

goes through her her whole explanation of why

she's the way she is and and how she rebuilt

the foot and Then he basically just bitch slaps

her Pretty much. My favorite thing in martial

arts movies or in the Ninja Turtles is the very

rare chances we get to see Splinter or Shredder

fight because they come in and dominate the situation.

Like you can have somebody like Korai who's trained

all of her life to be a martial artist and can

take any of the foot, can give Leonardo a hard

time, but then it just takes Shredder this Instant

second to grab her wrist the right way to put

her down on the ground and pin her there like

yes That's what my what my my fake martial arts

movie master martial artists to be like just

that so I Gigi I'm a giddy like a little girl

when I see that happen For a second there, I

thought you were gonna go go go giddy. Yeah,

that was a god. That was a fantastic oral typo

Yes. So we find out that Karai is not ready because

he basically puts her down within like three

deft moves. We go back to Casey, April, and the

Turtles, and April is basically asking him, you

know, why didn't he ever tell her about this?

And the Turtles are... Having a little fun with

him, you know saying he should Wear his host

hockey mask when he goes home and then rap pipes

in and says maybe a football helmet too and they're

Mike I think Mike says that No raps raps. Oh,

yeah, that raps. Oh, you're right. You're right

Again, the color maybe it's my eyes the colors

it Yeah, it's a little blurred for me. But anyway

That's because of my eyesight. What I love about

this is they do things, they're doing things

with Casey that either I haven't paid attention

to in a long time, this reminds, and I know most

of the listeners are going to hate this reference,

you might also hate it, this reminds me of...

Those old TV shows that you know had the hard

-hitting like 90210 Like party of five you know

those old Fox television shows that really hit

hard issues and Casey's a you know Casey's dad

abusing him you know abuse of a child that is

a very very difficult thing to get through and

sure the turtles are trying to cheer him up a

bit. I don't find it offensive that Mikey is

making jokes about it, because I think he is

trying to help Casey in his own way. I just find

it refreshing that in a comic book about four

mutated turtles, you can have a storyline like

this version of Casey. It's so refreshing. Well,

it's a sign that they're taking it seriously,

that they love the source material and that not

only are they just rehashing it, but they're

giving us more, they're making it more real,

they're making it more relatable. All things

that I don't think the new Nickelodeon movie

is doing. Well, talk about that at the end of

the show. I'm sure. So we then cut to a blackout

and we see two hands and They still have all

five fingers. I was kind of expecting, I was

kind of expecting two fingers in the thumb or

something or some sort of fly wing in the background.

And actually, because of how they open this next

scene, I almost thought it was fly vision. I

really did when he, when the character here,

and I'll mention him in a minute, when he's looking

at his hands, I almost thought the floor was

fly vision. Almost thought Baxter got turned

into a fly, but no he's he's still around and

kicking and He He's in some strange place This

reminds me of the Just the way that the hallway

looks it reminds me of the building In the 87

cartoon in the very first episode the building

that flooded It reminded me of that kind of building

just the way this hallway looks But you know,

he's in a strange building. He sees these three

rock soldiers And he he stumbles upon Crang lots

of crying well there in in the old series in

the old days. They were utram Right. Yeah, the

brain critters. He's staring at several vials

of them. Rather, it's suspended in large canisters

in what appears to be the mutagen. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

What do you think of the art on these pages here?

I'm a fan. It's... The lots of black shadows,

not exactly Minyola -esque. The figures are slightly

stylized, but it's all gorgeous work, I think.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And General Crane finally reveals

himself as the Utram that he is. We then go back

to the turtles. We actually go back to Raph and

Splinter. And... Raph's gonna get arrested for

breaking and entering I Can't okay, I know Casey's

dad is a hard case. I know he's a hard -ass He's

the kind of guy that doesn't scare easily But

I cannot believe even though he's seen Raph before

that he like a giant rat has no effect on Yes,

I know this is New York City, but it just It

seems like every other person except for Casey's

dad has some sort of shock reaction to a giant

turtle and a giant rat and he has none. He's

probably so drunk all the time everything looks

like a giant alien animal. Yeah. So we then get

the lesson from Splinter here. And again. actually

looks like a rat. It's amazing. I also think

what really makes him look like a rat in these

issues is that they've slightly changed his color

a little bit. Did you notice that? No. Oh really?

When the art changes like that I wouldn't notice

the color change. I would just take it all in

as the art is different. Yeah, see for me I always

nitpick and notice color change and like with

the bandanas I noticed the bandanas and I'm not

saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying that

It just seems as if It's a darker. It's more

gray on splinter now than it was a few issues

ago where I thought it was just like a tannish

brown So the issue 13 basically ends with Let

me show you the true way of the ninja now again.

I am so glad ladies and gentlemen. I did not

Get this series in single issues because I would

have been going out of my mind Going out of my

mind. Oh my god And issue 14 slash chapter 2

which is here in the trade Basically picks up

right and and again. This is what I love about

IDW You I know I don't I don't know if there's

anything like Previously on in the actual issue

or anything else like that or like a recap there

isn't a recap in the trade It just is it's the

one panel. Let me show you the way of a true

ninja the next panel is chapter 2 This is is

this the solution you seek? So I don't know if

it's different in the single issue, but you get

a paragraph just in case you net good Issue but

then yeah, it's this is the solution use is this

the solution you seek first thing We should I

guess to be clear in case we missed it Raphael

kicks down the door Threatens Casey's dad you

touch him. I'm gonna beat the snot out of you

and right afterwards splinter gets in disarms

RAF disables them and then grabs the dad and

has his sigh to his throat and is about to kill

him and saying, is this the justice you seek?

Yeah, and then we go to the next page. I love

the interaction between Splinter and Raph. It's

so great. They're going on like this dude who

has never seen a mutant rat and never really

saw a mutant turtle except that one time and

he was drunk. They're just having this conversation.

He's totally chill. panicked, sweating, but chill.

and in the four sons and it's just such great

storytelling. So we get to this jerk, all this

twisted crap he does to his own kid. Maybe I'm

wrong, but I don't think he deserves any more

chances. On that, my son, we agree. Wait, what?

No! And then we switch back to General Crang

and Baxter. I gotta say, I know in the last couple

of trades that we've done, there are times where

I've complained about the story changes in the

middle of the issues. Like, you know, going from

the wait -what -no to completely different Part

of the story. I didn't mind it in this. I thought

all four of these issues flowed very very well

together It makes that's a they are skillfully

done. Certainly, especially this one that I'm

looking at It's the only one I could recall offhand,

but they it feels like that commercial break

that makes you want to come back You know and

not channel flip, you know You don't want to

put the book down you want to get through this

part so you can see what happened there So...

Krang reveals, uh, uh, his origin... ...Utramanon?

Yep. Oh, god. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Mr. Eastman.

The god that you are, and Mr. Waltz. That is

the worst name for a planet I've ever heard.

And the fact that it's a planet inside Dimension

X... That doesn't really bug me that much, but

just that name, that is the worst name for a

planet I've ever heard. I don't think they mention

that a lot, thank goodness. Well, they mention

it several times here in this story, but after

that I don't know. They might mention it more

when we get to Krangor. So we have this flashback

of the Krang war and of What I can only assume

are the neutrinos or some form of them? That

are fighting that are fighting the eutrons. Yep

Now I really do have to go back and and watch

the Hot Rodden Teenagers. Hot Rodden Teenagers

from Dimension X. Yikes. Oh, God. Oh, boy. So

we get this flashback. And it's interesting.

I do like it. I think it's interesting that they've

basically... Me coming from the cartoon and the

movies and all this and everything else, it's

like, it's interesting that the twist that they

put on Dimension X and that they're combining

all of the other U -Tron type mythology within

this. Yeah. Well, I don't think, unless they

pull a 180 with us, I don't think Shredder turns

out to be an U -Tron in this. Can I can ruin

that one for you and say that he is not a new

drum? So that's that's interesting that's that

that's a good thing So So we have general crying

talking with With Baxter And he's basically telling

him that he has a new job for him and He says

welcome Baxter Stockman to the Technodrome and

they're actually building it. Oh my god They're

actually building it We go back to the turtles

April and Casey and This is where April says,

you know, hey Casey, we're friends. Why didn't

you tell me about any of this stuff? Why didn't

you feel that you could come talk to me? It's

not your job. You're my math tutor. All I can

think of in my head is, all right, April, all

right, Casey. Cory Felton. 9 .95! Cory will come

back. I'll definitely make reference to Cory

later because of a certain specimen 6 that shows

up. So we've got Donnie talking to them. Look,

Casey, if there's anything we've learned recently,

it's that working together beats trying to handle

everything on your own. And then Leo pipes up

and it's back and forth with Donnie and they're

basically telling him, hey, your family, you

know, let us, you know, let us in, let us know

what's going on. You know, and growing up reading

the old Archie comics, watching the cartoon,

watching the movie, I don't remember family being

so important, like that being the central theme.

to what the Ninja Turtles are, but I'm getting

that just from this book. I can't remember what

other media I've read with Ninja Turtles in it

where I'm getting that sense, too. But I think

that's just a wonderful way to handle it and

to make it relatable, even though they're mutant

Ninja Turtles, that it's a family between Casey,

April and the four turtles and Splinter and eventually

the other. Family members that show up in at

least I have in the other comics. I'm really

excited Yeah, comfortable. Oh Yeah, most definitely

and we go back to Casey's dad's house and splinter

and Raffer Basically telling him look, you know

do this, you know You better basically Splinter

says I am happy you understand my son as I just

as I'm having to tell you that there is a solution

another path far more peaceful insane Gather

your friends belongings Casey Jones will stay

with us now and again twice in one true twice

in one story Over a couple of issues Raph has

just had this look of surprise From things splinter

has told him and it's it's just absolutely amazing

So Raph goes up, he grabs most of Casey's, you

know, pretty much all Casey's stuff that he has

there. Splinter gives him back his sigh. And

they basically, they basically leave. And Casey's

dad is like, yeah, that's right, freaks, you

better hustle out of here. What kind of monster

are yous, anyways? You ask what kind of monsters

we are. Perhaps the better question is, what

kind of man are you? Uh, they're pretty much,

Master Splinter's pretty much, you know, force

feeding Casey's dad hand over fist right there.

That's not how I remember that situation playing

out. If you'd have asked me, you know, three

days ago what that was, I thought, my memory

said Splinter, if you ever touch him again, I'm

going to come back and kill you. And I thought

that's how that ended. But I, I like this ending

better. This is much better. This is why I don't

write comics. I'm much better complaining about

them when I don't like them rather than writing

good ones. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And some little minor

detail we kind of skipped over is that we go

back to April, Casey and the Turtles, and April

says, I'm going to get some sugar for my tea.

Do you want some to Casey? Oh, yeah, please,

April. It's really strong. And Mikey says, told

you. Because apparently Master Splinter's tea

is like... Basically going into a police station

and drinking coffee So Raph and splinter come

home They Splinter says we need to have a family

meeting they invite April and Casey to stay and

And they basically taught Casey into living with

them and he's like, okay, um, seriously Thanks,

so that kind of solves that issue And splinter

goes on to say he doesn't want his children to

be corrupted and Not even against mortal threat.

We must still follow the moral path always remember

Nothing is more important than family Speaking

of family We then go back to the Foot Clan, and

Karai and Shredder. I think this is the first

time I've seen him without his... Yeah. It's

interesting. We then kind of get a background

on him, I believe. Right? It was hard for me

to tell. I think so? Let me see... Hamato Yoshi

once had a family cry in our past life, a wife

and four sons. After Yoshi's treachery, I had

them all executed along with Yoshi. But before

all that, I had the opportunity to watch Yoshi

with his ch - Oh yeah, that's the flashback to

the guys. Yep, it's the flashback to Tang Shen

and... Okay, yeah, thanks Shannon and Hamato

Yoshi. Oh, it's and he's stalking them and he's

looking at Leonardo Well, whoever whatever his

Japanese name is and says he's a born leader

Yeah, that's what it is They I would say the

only I'm sure it's gonna pay off eventually.

They don't really go into this though. They don't

really They don't really talk about why shredder

is so interested in Leo Outside of saying that

he has the strong leadership Qualities and I

think there's because he's a douchebag shredder.

I think it's a matter of corrupting something

that is Yoshi's That he wants that's his that's

his main goal right right and then of course

the the issue ends with him saying bring to me

the one Yoshi now calls Leonardo because he is

the one true heir to the foot clan not as good

of a of a cliffhanger like if I was reading this

singly I wouldn't be drooling like oh my god

what's gonna happen next because in issue 15

it starts off with specimen 6 Oh, yeah at the

lab with Chet and Chet's assistant and you can

clearly tell that see that see this is the thing

This is why I was asking you about do they ever

really pay off the Leonardo thing that that shredder

is watching him that shredder sees that he's

a born leader because How the trade is where

it just goes from chapter to chapter versus issue

to issue it goes I should you know I mean and

they open this one up and you see this turtle

And I'm like, wait, that's not... Oh. I know

who that's going to turn out to be. That's going

to turn out to be Slash. Oh, and it's 14 months

ago. So this isn't 14 years ago like my brain

just read that. So this is happening fairly recent.

Yep. Yep. This is probably either... Either the

turtles and splinter are still there or the events

from earlier where they the breakout Possibly

Yeah, I think that happened. Well, no because

April was alive they were Okay, so they aged

to be teenagers really quickly Six, but I forgot

how many they mentioned that when they're we've

been searching for a raft for this many months

now Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah That's right. And

this new specimen basically, at first I thought,

I knew in the back of my mind, okay, that's Slash,

but the movie me was like, ooh, Toca! I would

have been happy either way. They're both giant

evil turtles. I am still waiting for so many

characters that I want to see show up. I want

to see Tatsu. I'm excited to see Bebop and Rock

City, and I think you've seen the covers with

them. Yeah, we will get there soon enough. Oh,

yes. We will get there. We're going fast. Oh,

yeah. We're already up to issue 15 here, so we're

catching up pretty quick, even though they're

already up to like issue 33, 34, something like

that. So in this in this lab thing there What

is going on here this all the SWAT guys Let's

take burns the inferno ASAP and if that damn

turtle moves an inch below it to kingdom come

okay, yeah slash got free and basically went

Went all you know monster of the week Now this

this next scene is is really heart -wrenching

it really is poor Woody Poor Woody and poor Mikey

it just it's so So heart -wrenching It's oh man,

it's crazy because slash basically attacks Woody

And then they have sightings of this giant lizard

monster. It's like hey Doc Connors is in New

York And the turtles are like well we can't be

seen here because we'll get blamed for it and

You know and basically Raph says what no pizzas.

Nope. I stopped at Woody's shop earlier to say

hi, but he wasn't there Guess he's got the night

off or something And there I like them Jumping

off off the rooftops. I think this is like these

two pages In the trades page 56 and 57 Really

like this. I like how they're moving here. I

think that's really really awesome It's this

is how I have a hard time drawing anything in

any kind of motion like this So I look at this

and go gosh. Yeah, they're beautiful gestures.

I Need to copy people yeah So they get home And

they basically say that they don't want father's

salty vegetables and rice and they get home to

some rice I Love his a by the apron. I was hoping

you were gonna bring it up any worse. I was I

Walk therefore I am It's the same splinter that

in the the CG movie is watching his soap operas,

you know, I like that martial arts ninja master

and then he has to watch soap operas and cook

with a an apron channel 7 wait a minute I was

hoping they would have put a channel 6 joke in

here but they didn't basically Frank White of

channel 7 is talking about the slash spree and

the fact that poor april's poor van gets slashed

and you know first it gets well it didn't get

blown up i was gonna say first her apartment

gets blown up now we're van everything else um

so we go to um the fact that they all need to

be watching their backs big time and um By this

time case Raph wants to get to Casey's game,

right? Looks looks like I don't remember talking

about that earlier, but I believe oh Casey's

headed to a game and That's right. Yeah. Yeah,

we don't get oh Leo We don't get time for this

Casey's game remember because Leo wants to stop

and and do the righteous thing and help some

guy that's being mugged and they do that and

The turtles are mistaken for the slash monster

the giant lizard reptile thing that's killing

people. Yeah, everybody's freaked out and they

run away Yeah And then we go to slash himself

smells smells smell them turtles Pray and he

rips off this guy's part of this guy's shirt

and makes a black bandana out of it Yeah Oh,

that's a good thing. I think it's cool. Okay.

No, I thinking the turtles flying up there too

and yeah It's a simple thing, you know that we

all played with the action figure as a kid and

it had a black bandana because it was a turtle

the ninja turtles had but then You know, it's

I like seeing Where those weird little things

come from it makes to the bandana more important

to see where he got it I think rather than just

being a decoration or something that makes the

character so you can see his eyes better from

a design standpoint to now it's an object that

has a story and and 25 issues from now when slash

shows up again we'll be able to look at that

bandana and say we know where he got it i don't

know it's a it's a good nod i like and that's

something that this comic does i think this series

the idw series does everywhere is that it it

gives a reason for everything and the reasons

that they're giving for everything aren't stupid

They're really, really thought out and well connected

and played out. I think that's exquisite. Absolutely.

And the turtles go get religion. Because apparently

they lost it the last lifetime. No, they go to

this abandoned church, which has a bunker under

it. And I love the line, fine, wimps, because

it's so dark down there. And I gotta say, I was

half expecting this whole sewer, this whole new

layer search, I was half expecting it to lead

to a subway station. Because I gotta say. This

subway station is by far the best layer that

I enjoy. And the cool thing with even with that

layer, I've seen photos of New York where they've

gone down into the sewers and found the old abandoned

train stations. And my gosh, they look exactly

like Ninja Turtles 2 train station, subway station.

And I think, OK, those places actually exist.

I like that. Yeah, that is so awesome. So they've...

basically find an underground town home is basically

what this thing is because it has like four or

five damn different levels going so far underground

and it's it's pretty cool there's still couches

left there and chairs um the sad thing is is

that slashes tracked them to this place And the

fight ensues. Slash's design, oh my god, when

they shine the light on him... That light on

him, that's a beautiful shot. It's such a beautiful

shot, but it's so creepy. So creepy. So they're

basically... Raph wants to fight this thing.

And Leo's like no don't they have several panels

of of them fighting and Slash basically takes

them out one by one. I mean he's like He's got

Leo he's got Raph and he's got Donnie and You

know, everybody always makes fun of Mikey let

it never be said that Mikey can't come through

on a pinch You know regardless if if he is Beast

Boy on the on the animated series right now It

Mikey really can can shell it out quite literally

I Don't know cuz slash really is only saying

one or two words right now. I don't have a voice

for him in my head Like I don't have a specific

voice. I know it's something dark and creepy

and did he talk to the animated series? Not in

the original he does in the new one I Remember

him more from the Archie comic than from this

and I'm and the this chapter ends Leo, where

are you? The lights are out and he gets the flashlight

and finds out that Leo's held up by his throat

with Slash. Help me! And Slash shouts kill as

he's probably not in that voice gonna get him.

And what I'm looking at here in mine is the cover

of the next issue. And it looks like it's a retailer

incentive cover because it's not the actual cover

that I have on the floor here. But it's drawn

by the guy who will be drawing the next story

arc. Oh, and he's still searching for his turtle

style. It looks like here But I love the depiction

of slash in this it looks um and I think there's

actually a connection here that this artist had

something to do or draws Lilo and stitch On his

on the side and there's something in his face

that and slashes face. It looks like stitch But

it's it's good. It's not a that's not a bad.

He doesn't look cute He's definitely angry and

vicious, but I see something tagged into his

belt here tugged Under his belt that is from

the archie comic which it's a little pine tree

palm tree a little plastic fish tank palm tree

and I think That's a nod to when he was in his

tank. The only thing that could calm him down

was the little plastic palm tree that he had

before he was mutated. And that's a really cool

nod to see that. I'm going to go back some pages

and see if there's that palm tree in his tank.

Yes, it is. It's there. Have you not seen the

episodes recently in season 2 for the current

series? No, my DVR stopped recording it and I'm

seeing it so out of order now. And to be honest,

it annoys me too much. I can't get into it. Really?

Yeah. So you don't mind if I spoil something

for you then? No, dive in, dive in. Okay, you

remember Raph's pet turtle? Yes. Spike? That

gets mutated I've seen that Spike turns into

slash and slash in the new series is voiced by

Corey Feldman And it is creepy as all hell. That's

what I was saying. I didn't notice that. Oh my

god. Yeah Because that's why that's why I brought

up that slash here he he does like one or two

words He says one or two words every now and

then. He doesn't have a whole conversation with

himself. So while I do hear a creepy voice in

my head when I read him, I don't hear the Corey

Feldman creepy voice yet. But yeah, oh my God.

I was like, because what I was expecting when

they mentioned a lot of the voice actors were

coming back to voice various roles, I was envisioning

some sort of massive multi Turtle World crossover

thing and I was expecting Corey Feldman Donnie

to talk to Rob Paulson Donnie or Rob Paulson

Raff to talk to Rob Paulson Donnie or you know

some sort of strange thing that way. I did just

stream an episode where they were in a room a

hallway with a bunch of dimensional doors and

they found the 1990 Ninja Turtles cartoon and

they actually got the Four Voices back. I mean,

it was hard to get Rob Paulson, but that was

something that they couldn't do on that crossover

thing. Oh, gosh, I wish they could have. The

only reason why the Turtles Forever does not

have the original 80s voice actors. It was a

union dispute. It was a non -union project. And

all the actors, all the original voice actors

are all union. So I'm hoping for a full -on crossover

eventually. I really, really am. But yeah, no.

Issue 15 ends with kill. And again, picks up

right where it left off. How much of a previously

on is there in the single issue? I think they

limit them to a paragraph. Oh, okay. The story

so far that... TMNT find a potential new home

in a bomb shelter under an abandoned church.

Unfortunately, they have been tracked by Slash,

a merciless and deadly mutant snapping turtle.

Created by StockGen specifically to hunt and

kill the TMNT. Wow. So, like I was saying earlier,

they have this battle. Slash is hurt. Mikey comes

to the rescue. It's so great. I love these books

so much. They're so awesome. They really, really

are. I'm really loving the new house you picked

for us, Don. So then we go back to Burnout Island.

where Baxter is talking with Chet over some sort

of walkie -talkie thing and They're talking about

the experiment and that it's He says As much

as I Detest the thought I'm relying on you to

stay on top of these things. Krang has me fully

occupied with his Special project and I don't

expect I'll be returning to the office soon So

he's pretty much a prisoner And of course crank

does refuse to accept failure and we go back

to the splinter turtles April and Casey No, we

just it's splinter April and Casey does the turtles

are off doing Casey's basically gonna go to his

game and he wants to wait for them But We then

get back to the turtles for slash gosh, he's

huge. Oh my god Slash is like two tokens stacked

on top of each other. I Mean he is like I oh

god. This is this top page here Okay, guys, just

like with shredder. We do this together The image

of Slash there. If it was a nine foot tall video

game character, Slash is Wreck -It Ralph. Look

at his face. Oh God. When I was a kid at my grandparents

trailer park that they had a place that they

were we had a little fishing pond and there was

a day where a bunch of the guys from the various

campsites, people that lived there, went there

to get these snapping turtles that had moved

into this pond to trap them and get them out

and I I don't know I was maybe eight years old

and I remember them pulling this gigantic snapping

turtle out of the the thing and those they it's

the only one that I've ever seen close up they

are sci -fi looking as it is it's they're they

just look evil like I mean you know puppies are

cute they don't they don't bite they don't they

don't tear they don't kill anything But snapping

turtles, they look like they kill things and

they actually do. And they beheaded the two of

them that they caught out of there. But man,

and they were huge, like bigger than the shells

on these two were bigger than hubcaps. I couldn't

believe it. Oh, God, their heads. But this is

I kind of get that feeling of Young's frightened

child just thinking about. Especially that shot

with the flashlight last issue. Yeah. Yeah. but

these next couple of pages I mean they do work

well as a team and they're they think they've

almost got him but he basically just throws them

all off of him and he says keep it coming but

it's it's so such a good good fight Leo says

no this has to stop and guess who shows up at

the church because they don't want to go to Casey's

game they're gonna go find the turtles because

they're a family not that I'm saying this is

a bad thing but the slashed van shows up to the

church and Casey in his junior varsity clothes

and April almost looks like she's wearing a cheerleader

uniform without some pom -poms even though it

says New York something on her on her shirt I

don't know what it actually says in that but

But yeah, they they show up and More more turtle

stuff and we get a flashback Because Leo is actually

trying to help slash and he almost thinks that

he Her shirt says New York Tech on it. He almost

thinks he gets through and and then April and

Casey after ruin it And oh my god, oh that's

oh that image I didn't notice that the fur cuz

how i normally read the trades is and i've said

this before in the podcast is i read the word

balloons and uh and the um the dialogue boxes

i mean i look at the art as i'm going but i didn't

notice that he had one of leo's swords in his

shoulder oh my god that is so gruesome so so

gruesome And, you know, Leo down there kind of

feels bad, and yes, it was kind of an accident,

but the dude walks around with three -foot razor

-sharp swords. He's bound to cut something at

some point. Which, I guess, reading my Volume

1 right now, my gosh, the turtles are violent.

They kill, stab, gore. It's great. It's kind

of neat to see them actually use the weapons

and stab things with them. Gosh, have you seen

that internet video where the 1990s animated

turtles figure out that if they actually use

their weapons how easy everything becomes? Whoa

dudes, why didn't we do this before? It's like

so much easier to actually hit them with them

And they're like murdering everybody and it's

like really uncomfortable So the slash storyline

doesn't really Know you said he comes back which

is great, but it doesn't really have a definitive

conclude. Oh he sinks and Leo apologizes Did

you notice the The vocal effect as he's sinking

splish splash It doesn't say splash, but it's

a splish And slash is heard he sinks to the to

the You you wouldn't think that in a sewer that

that pool even though it's collected water It

has a way in and out of itself. You wouldn't

think it would be that deep that he would sink

I mean, this isn't the friggin ocean here. I

Don't know Yeah, I don't know how the sewers

work, of course. Well, yeah, but I mean it just

Little things so we get to the next day and April

and Casey are kind of all settling into the layer

with into the new layer because they did They

are now at the at the bunker under the church

It's April Casey Raph splinter and Donnie and

Leo I think Leo's there, isn't he? Where's Leo?

He's having a hard time about stabbing the turtle.

He's meditating in one of the other levels, okay.

And Mikey goes to the pizza place. And Splinter

is basically explaining to Raphael about Mikey's

personality. Mikey goes out to the dumpster where

it has a pizza and a note on it that says Mike

-ster. Hey amigo, don't think I can deal with

the stuff that follows you and your bros. I'll

keep the pizzas coming though woody. Oh Yeah,

that was a sad moment because you actually see

him tear up But that was splinter explaining

it earlier Michelangelo is a kindly soul he has

been He has been this way through two lifetimes

his empathy for others is a virtue not a flaw

He simply seeks out the goodness in others That

is so innate to himself, which makes me actually

like Michael Angelo because I've always been

annoyed by him No, I like him now Well, that's

because most of the time he's portrayed as the

goof off or the party dude. It's a relief. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah I assume issue 16 has this epilogue,

correct? Yeah, I'm looking at an epilogue. So

yes. Yes. Yes. Okay So Slash has washed ashore

under one of the bridges in New York City, and

someone with a really, really nasty foot basically

kicks him awake, and we see that Old Hob is still

alive. I thought they killed him. I really did.

And the end of the issue is, yeah, hunters, me

and you, big boy, and think of And if they think

the blood's the only thing they're gonna worry

about they got another thing coming now Let's

get out of here. We got a place to be and people

to kill and he has splinters brain blood sample,

but they've been waiting for Yeah Yeah It's It's

just all creepy as all I know And in the trade

we have an art gallery as always We've got the

cover of Raph and Splinter. This page and opposite

page done by Eastman, colors by Ron DePaterson.

The opposite page is basically Splinter, the

four turtles, around candlelight in what I assume

is either the new layer or the old layer. It

really reminds me of the movie when, you know...

Donnie and Mike you brought marshmallows The

next one we have this page and opposite page

art by Andy Kuhn it's Karai and The crime scene

do not cross where Leo basically all four of

them are It's a red background with yellow crime

scene tape and it's all four of them. Yeah covers

that I got I Love that cover. That's an awesome

cover The next one, art by Kevin Eastman, colors

by Rhonda Patterson on both pages. It's Slash

and the Turtles, and man is this fierce. This

is a badass cover. It really is. And the one

opposite it is basically a very damaged Leo sitting

in the grass. Because he's got band -aids. Looks

like... He looks like Alan Parrish. What do you

expect? I've never shaved before. And then the

next two are, on the one page it's art by Valero

Shitey, colors by Claudia Sage, or SIGD, I don't

know how to say it. It's, they almost look animated.

They it's the Mikey's holding a game controller

Donnie is basically cracking a smile Leo looks

like he's yawning holding pizza and Raph is eating

pizza. Do you have you seen this cover? No, and

I'm jealous of your awesome sketchbooks every

time every time I do this podcast I'm here. I'm

here looking at at three alternate covers on

the front of each book. That's about the size

of my first thumb knuckle That's all I get the

opposite page is done by Ramon Perez with colors

by Ian Herring it's basically the four turtles

Casey in some sort of fighting stance what else

do we have here we've got one by Kagan McLeod

which is basically Leo with a sword flying through

mid -air Uh, the opposite page is done by Andy

Kuhn. This one is really cool. This one is a

white background with all four turtles in all

four turtles and slash in red where they have

all fighting poses and slashes like he looks

like he's going to eat them from from above.

It's very very freaking cool. And then of course

the last page is the uh more turtle action. get

other trades and things. I think as I'm flipping

through these covers the Kagan McLeod with Leo

leaping through the air is my favorite cover

and I might have to go find that one. What issue

is this? Issue 15? Time to head to eBay. I think

my favorite one is the animated looking one with

Mikey holding the game controller. That's not

one that I have in my little pile here. I'll

have to find out which issue that was from. I

don't remember which one it was from so we are

gonna take a quick break come back with final

thoughts and ratings and talk about a Certain

something that Joe wants to rant about as well.

We'll be back after this Crime violence and fear

have run rampant Our great city is being destroyed

People want justice restored to this world. People

want heroes, Miss O 'Neil. But heroes are not

born. They're created. That's what your father

and I were trying to do. Chill just a mask see

don't freak out Right So we are back and Issues

13 through 16 for volume 4 trade sins of the

fathers I'm gonna give it a five. Yep. I really

do There wasn't anything really in here that

Made me sit there and go. Oh, I gotta take a

point off for this. Oh, I gotta take a point

off for that. Oh my god Master Splinter is a

dog because he really doesn't look like a dog

to me in this at all It the art on him was very

consistent through all four issues Yeah, I think

there was there was about I don't know five minutes

when I first read this so that I didn't like

the new art because I really loved uh... the

last version of the turtles that design but uh...

no no i don't mind it now it's great yeah absolutely

love it uh... but you know the story is picking

up it's a ramp this is this is just the ramp

i we're gonna get some serious air in the next

ten issues it's like i need to go on instockdraids

.com right now Go ahead and get crank war go

ahead and get the city fall trades go ahead and

get the bit It's like I want it all right now

Secret history of the foot clans where it's at

secret history of the foot clan Yeah, absolutely.

So I know the pullback is a comic book podcast

ladies and gentlemen But since it is a comic

book property Joe and I are going to do a little

brief rant and I wanted to say this the end of

the show so people didn't just turn off the show

at the beginning, like, I don't want to hear

this rant. Joe has an argument for his reasoning

why he is right and Jonathan Lib, whatever his

name is, is wrong. What is this Jonathan Lib

said? I hadn't heard of him. Whoever the hell

the director is. Okay, he's wrong. Yeah, okay.

Libsman I don't know how to say his name It almost

would have been easier and better if they directed

it Okay, the only thing Before you get into your

reasoning the only thing that I want to bring

up about the turtles movie trailer is that And

this is this has really been my My biggest complaint

about this new film is that everyone under the

Sun Keeps saying it's Michael Bay's Ninja Turtles.

No, it is not it is his production company The

director is actually I've got his name right

here Jonathan Leib's like these men lives men.

I don't know how to say his name his previous

directorial filmography things here Darkness

falls rings Texas chainsaw massacre the beginning

the killing room battle Los Angeles and wrath

of the Titans a whole bunch of things I didn't

see Same here But that's my biggest thing everyone's

bitching about this new Ninja Turtles movie because

it has Bayes Production company attached to it

and because a lot of the promotional stuff that

you see is ooh Michael Bay produced Teenage Beauty

It's like the guy who did Transformers. Yeah,

even though those movies were bad. You saw them

It it's like They don't even really count Lipsman

at all. And I'm probably butchering the guy's

name. I don't know. The teaser trailer or whatever

trailer we got recently, the only thing I really

like about it is I'm really interested to see

what William Fickner brings to the Shredder role.

I have a feeling that he's not actually Shredder.

Oh. Okay, well, I think he's affiliated. I think

he's the bad guy, but I don't think he's shredder

Okay, so I'm just gonna let you have the floor.

What is your? Let's go ahead the the turtles

the designs. Yes, they're wrong Okay, and I go

on to internet forums and hear people complain

and there seems to be this new trend That's driving

me nuts where in these? Yes, geek forums. There's

this whole group of people that are saying, you

can't complain about that. You haven't seen it

yet. I'm a geek. It's my job to complain about

things when they're worth complaining about.

So what's worse than somebody complaining about

something, then somebody coming into the same

place to say, you can't complain about that.

He's complaining about me complaining. But in

defense of my complaining and those others who

have chosen to complain about the Ninja Turtles

designs, we have all been geeks long enough to

know that this movie's gonna be bad. We can see

which way the wind is blowing. We have been watching

these nerd films for 15, 20 years of our lives.

We can smell a daredevil coming. We can smell

an Electra coming. We can smell when an Avengers

comes, and it's amazing. Is it a good classic

film, cinema, that we're gonna be studying in

film history in 25 years? No, but it's a fun

film. Ninja Turtles, we can tell because we are

smart. people to look at we could look at that

just in the leaked photos and in this trailer

that we've seen to see that This has corporate

influence written all over it Like the IDW book

is is full of nods and love and appreciation

for the source material This is done by somebody

who has looked at the source material and said,

okay now how can I put my fingerprint on it?

Which is what these what the designs of the Ninja

Turtles have turned into someone in some production

meeting a long time ago said you know I think

we should make the turtles more realistic they're

mutant they're half human half turtle let's give

them noses and lips hey all right guys let's

go let's go tell the CG guy guys what to do and

so when they put this into production when they

show this in beautiful rendered CG things with

diffused light and in these things they look

creepy they look disgusting with the the not

just no the turtles can have nostrils turtles

in real life have nostrils but these guys have

noses and lips things that are usually parts

of things that mammals have and it makes them

look creepy unnerving disgusting all of those

things uncanny valley but not not in the way

that Uncanny Valley usually works, but just you're

turning and all you're turning portions of your

audience off by making them scary Yes, it's more

realistic like the guys on on the forums are

complaining But okay, we don't need realism here.

They're ninja mutant giant turtles with a rat

for a master They don't have to be realistic.

They have to be pleasant your your audience needs

to want to look at them and they're creepy And

that's the problem with it somebody wants to

put their own fingerprint on it somebody took

make them realistic way too seriously and and

then there's you know the all the stuff stuck

to their shells and body parts and armor and

weird things that aren't Practical who cares

it gives them a little bit of texture and makes

it so that you can tell which one's which from

a Silhouette, but you know that's that's what

happened the designs are wrong Not because it's

not, you know, I want my turtles to look like

turtles from the 1990 cartoon. No, it's because

they're ugly, they're hideous, and I don't want

to look at them. So that's where my Ninja Turtles

stuff is. And I'm gonna punch anybody who says

I can't complain in the face because I'm a geek

and I can complain about things because it's

fun. I'll happily tell people I'm wrong later,

but I don't think I am. Yeah, so here's here's

my thing and I've said this many many times so

the listeners are just they're just gonna have

to fast forward this A trailer is an advertisement

to get you to go to see a movie or a TV show

or anything you see on TV that advertises a television

show or film. It's to promote that, to get you

to go see it. Everyone has always complained

in the six years that I've podcasted that I always

make too many harsh early judgments because of

trailers. But isn't that the point? The trailer

is an advertisement. If it doesn't entice me,

I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh, the movie's

gonna suck, but I'll say that it's not, you know,

it's not for me. Have you seen the, it was on

darkhorizons .com, the image of the classic turtle

versus the 2014 turtle? No. It's in the Skype

window there. You're talking about the noses

and everything else. Yes, you're right. Turtles

do have noses, but... No, no, no, no. They have

nostrils, right? Is that right? Yeah, yeah. They

have something. It just... The more I look at

some of the turtle designs for the 2014 film,

like when I saw Mikey take his mask off, he said,

look, it's just a mask. It's just a mask in the

trailer. I'm like, hey, without his mask on,

Mikey is a live action Shrek. What the hell?

I know. And they look like Navi to me, like Avatar

Navi. It was just not. Ah, yes, I have seen the

Photoshopped versions. Yes, I think I think the

nose in the Photoshop versions They're too smooth

like it doesn't have the same texture that their

forehead does but right. That's an improvement

You know, I don't want to see them do that Do

I want to see them do that? I think I do you

want to see that? Yeah You know, I'm still gonna

go see the stupid movie. They might I know And

when I say When I say stupid movie, I'm not saying

that it's going to be a stupid movie. I'm just

saying that I'm so sick of all this hype and

all this and everything else. It's really gotten

to the point for me where it's like, can't everybody

just shut up about it already and let it come

out already? I remember hearing our buddy Art

Danner say recently, he's like, yeah, I'm going

to go see it. I'm going to take Joe to go see

it and I'm just going to watch him cringe in

his seat the whole time. Yeah, it's I am not

sure that I want to give my money to this yet.

I am slightly interested and dare I say an optimistic

in seeing how they turn the original cartoon

into the movie, which is with Vern and with Irma

showing up in Chief Burns. It's just where I

think they're kind of going with it. They're

bringing that more of that mythos in than any

from the other. So I'm interested in what happens

but or how that happens but I don't you know

I don't have high hopes for this thing and I

don't want to spend money on it I really don't

if we don't go see this they'll eventually give

us a Ninja Turtles movie that we want to go see

yeah you know I I don't know I'm just kind of

happy that they're gonna be you know Not necessarily

lean, mean, and on the screen again, but just

the fact that they're on the screen again, I

like that. Well, it sure made the values of all

these old comics I'm trying to find go up, and

it's driving me nuts, but I'm almost done. Hey,

listeners, if you have volume four issues 25,

27, or 29, get in touch with me, because I am

willing to trade some of my really good duplicate

books, including some signed by Kevin Eastman,

to get those. When you say volume four, you're

talking about the current? No, no, Mirage volume

four. OK, OK. It was the last few things that

Mirage published before he sold them to Nickelodeon.

OK, cool, cool. All right, so coming up next

for the pull bag in April, we are going to be...

We're gonna be heading to a galaxy far far away

because Actually, no, we already did that. Damn

it. I could edit this son of a bitch 1250 edit

point coming up next we've already Gone back

to the sewers. We've already gone to a galaxy

far far away coming up next We are gonna head

back to Gotham City with Batgirl volume 1 for

the new 52 for back issue classics and then coming

up in may we've got our batman month which that's

going to be very interesting you don't sound

convinced no it it it's going to be really good

but i've gotten various um uh various lines of

batman comics i've tried to mix in a little bit

of everything uh i've got the current but where

the batman Digital series the Batman 66 digital

series year one dark night returns killing joke

death in the family And then we've got court

of owls city of owls and death of the family,

which is the new 52 stuff so But yeah, we are

in May this year. We're celebrating 75 years

of Batman For now I am TFG1 Mike with Joe Reed

Make your greatest game in the comics and we

will catch you next time Yay! Turtle power! You've

just heard the latest episode of The Pull Bag,

the GCRN's comic review and discussion podcast.

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