New 52 Nightwing Issues #28-30 Review

Hi this is Lauren Lester and you're listening

to the Geekcast Radio Network. You're listening

to the pullback after dark There Billy Marin

alias Simon dirks sit the squid killer Coburn

punky lash But who is he really? zuko oh my word

finally oh and welcome to the pull bag this is

another after dark and i know it's been a while

since our last after dark i'm trying to remember

The last After Dark even was. I am your host

TFG1Mike, and joining me this time is Star Joe's

Ryan. Hello, sir. Hello. Thank you for having

me on. I'm looking forward to this episode, especially

with it being After Dark. We don't have to worry

about too many of the sure to happen, phallic

innuendos that will happen in this episode. Yeah,

something like that. You can't talk about a character

named Dick without there being some little comments

here and there. Why do I feel like Kevin Smith

should be here? The last After Dark actually

was May 3rd when we talked about Free Comic Book

Day this year. But as Ryan alluded to... We are

going to be talking about the fact that Nightwing

is no more here in this After Dark. Let's first

of all get into each of us talking about how

we first got into the character, I guess. For

me, it was pretty much... the DC animated universe,

I mean Batman the animated series, Lauren Lester

voicing Robin, and then he became Nightwing as

the series went on into new Batman adventures,

new adventures of Batman and Robin, and then

new Batman Superman adventures. And then... Yeah,

I know you're gonna cringe and I know the entire

audience is gonna cringe but Chris O'Donnell

as Dick Grayson Come on now Batman Batman forever

wasn't that bad No, come on now Batman forever

with what what? Dick Grayson had to do in that

wasn't like specifically to him. The character

wasn't that bad Batman and Robin, on the other

hand, a little too over the top. We'll agree

to disagree because I am not, number one, I'm

not a fan. In fact, it's probably the thing I

hate the most. I am not a fan of Batman 66 stuff,

the TV series. So those two movies were just

a callback to that TV series that I actually

abhor. So yeah, you're not going to get any fandom

from me on either of those movies, even if you're

just pinpointing a specific part of it. No, I'm

talking about his characterization in the film.

His characterization wasn't bad. Whether the

puns were or not, that's a completely different

story. I mean, you know, everybody loves stepping

on holy rusted metal. Again, we'll agree to disagree.

Yeah. I mean, technically, well, I'm trying to

think. No, that I know is going to work. Alright,

so that's basically where I started. I have...

yet to read any pre -new 52 Nightwing stuff.

Pretty much any of his own stuff. Anything by

Dixon or Wolfman or any of that kind of stuff.

What's her name? Devin Grayson. I haven't read

Nightwing Huntress. The only thing pre -new 52

I've read is Gates of Gotham because, hey, it's

Kyle Higgins. Well, Kyle Higgins, Scott Snyder,

yadda yadda yadda. And then it's the new 52 storyline,

and I started backwards. That's not a bad thing.

I started backwards because, again, this is all

Steve Megatron's fault. He got me sucked in with

Batman number 13, which was the start of Death

of the Family. And then I'm like, oh, Nightwing,

okay, I like Dick Grayson. Notice I added the

last name, thank you very much. You know, I liked

Dick Grayson, and I'd like to see what's going

on with him. So I read Nightwing 15, 16, 17,

all the way up to, I think, 18 and 19. And then

I went back and read the first 14. So that's

when I've been reading it ever since, and I was

really pissed to see that the dildo got his way

and killed the character. Um, well, temporarily.

But, anyways. No, Nightwing is dead. Dick Grayson

may be alive, but Nightwing is dead. I was gonna

say, it depends on what you mean by character.

Because the character is still alive. The persona

of Nightwing is not around. And that, who knows

how long that'll be. That could be very temporary.

So, um, now... For me, where I started reading

Nightwing was back in the Wolfman Perez stuff

with Teen Titans. I wasn't there at the very

beginning of him turning into Nightwing, but

later on I started reading Teen Titans and I

have gone back and read his first appearance

as Nightwing and I've even gone back to his first

appearance as Robin and read those in like some

archive editions and stuff that I have. And there

was actually a time that Robin that Grayson Robin

was more popular than Batman, even, simply because

kids could identify with him more. But then I

went from the Wolfman Perez, Teen Titans, I went

into the Chuck Dixon, Nightwing series. I have

almost that whole run. I think I might be missing

a couple issues, but I have almost that whole

run. I've read every issue that I have of that.

I read when... I read the first time he became

Batman. I read the second time he became Batman

It's happened at least twice I know that I can

think of and then I of course jumped on to New

52 Nightwing I know I've mentioned to you before

But for those listening Nightwing is my fourth

favorite comic book character You are lying out

your ass. You told me the other day third favorite

DC Okay, fourth favorite overall comic books,

okay, so it goes it goes Green Lantern Hal Jordan

Wally West Flash Cyclops and then Dick Grayson

Nightwing So but when you're looking at put the

emo boy above Dick Grayson why I love X -Men

and Cyclops is my He is the second best leader

in the Marvel universe next to Captain America

so But no, I just I could I get let's put this

way I could identify with Cyclops just because

he was kind of the the Boy Scout character and

that's kind of how I grew up being so But getting

back to Dick Grayson. I mean, I have action figures

of him. I have an artifacts statue of him I you

know, the character is awesome Love him as Robin.

I loved him more as Nightwing. I'm very interested

in where they're going with him going forward

I don't think he's the best Robin in my opinion,

but I liked him as Robin But I liked him a lot

more when he became Nightwing Yeah, see I for

Robbins it's it's Tim Drake and Dick Grayson

Not in that order. I didn't want I didn't want

to use the the fallacy of Tim and dick Or dick

and Tim right that's that that's a little worse

dick in Tim Dick dick and But for me Dick Grayson

and Tim Drake are my top two Robins. Yeah, they

always will be I Jason Todd I get he's a little

more serious. I can kind of get behind him as

Red Hood No one not even a movie that the DC

animated universe or not DC DC universe animated

original movies No film no animated adaptation

of anything dealing with Damien Wayne will ever

get me to like that fucking character. I love

that character. I Hate Damien. I love him. He's

either And we're supposed to be talking about

Grayson here, but Damien to me, he's Ra's al

Ghul's grandson. He's the epitome of Robert Frost's

poem, Two Roads in the Yellowwood, Diverged in

the Yellowwood, because he can either go and

be like his father or he can go and be like his

grandfather. And he treats Alfred like... He's

a servant and Alf. Okay. Yes, Alfred is Bruce's

butler, but he's so much more than that. He's

technically Bruce Wayne's adoptive father after

Thomas and Martha died right and just the way

that Damien treats him It's like oh my god. I

want to backhand. Well, here's the thing. I didn't

like Damien when he first appeared But he is

growing on me and the thing that I like about

him is the fact that he is a kid and he can change

and he can grow as a character and he has in

the comics he yes, he is a dick to Alfred but

Alfred has learned to deal with that and Because

he's learned to deal with it and throw in his

own little little you know little one -liners

to him and everything else that Alfred always

does there started to develop a bond between

Alfred and Damien and the same thing with Damien

thinking he's but the best Robin and that he

couldn't be the best Robin he actually developed

a relationship with Dick Grayson and things like

that so That is the one thing I will agree with

you on the the other thing that I I noticed with

the bat books You know since you know I've started

reading several things with Damien is that Dick

Grayson is more of a father to Damien than Bruce

ever could oh, yeah That I will I will agree

with that on I will agree with you on that But

as far as Damien as a character by himself screw

that kid and I Looking forward to returning because

I think there was there was just getting to a

point where they were developing that character

and growing him To where he wasn't just the bratty

kid and you have to realize he's ten years old.

He's gonna be a bratty kid He thinks he's all

-powerful and can kill anybody and that's what

he was trying to do But for me, it's it's Tim

Drake is my favorite Robin, Dick Grayson, I mean

you have to love the original, Jason Todd, and

yeah Damien is my least favorite Robin, but I

love all the Robins, even when Stephanie Brown

was Robin for a little while and things like

that, so I, the character Robin, I actually like

the character Robin more than I like Batman,

so I feel like you need a Robin when you have

Batman, so. Uh, so yeah, so reading, you know,

Nightwing growing into his own character and

stuff like that, that was great. But at the same

time I was like, okay, we needed a Robin to replace

him. And then when Tim Drake came along, I thought

that was fantastic. So. Yeah, absolutely. Alright,

we're going to take a quick break and here's

what we're going to do. I know that Steve and

I kind of briefly touched on the 28 issues, Nightwing

28, Batman 28, etc., etc. Ryan and I are going

to go through the final three issues of the Nightwing

New 52 series by Kyle Higgins. And the only reason

why we're going to redo 28 a little bit and kind

of really fully discuss it and spoil it a little

bit more is because 28 and 29 were Kyle Higgins'

last... Issues and they are part one part two

kind of storytelling. So it would be kind of

Kind of silly of us to just do 29 and then 30,

right? So we'll be back after this You can do

it This is getting sad folks Nightwing number

28 For a second there. I remember when I first

saw this cover now. I know this has very I know

all these issues have variant covers I'm not

gonna sit here and look them up, but I know that

they do I think one of them was a mad variant

cover the other was a Scribblenauts variant cover,

which I really did like the Scribblenauts variant

cover I thought that was awesome, but Nightwing

28 is basically Nightwing being strangled and

held on to by all these hands and somebody with

a knife and Looks like some Robocop Ed 209 appendage

at the bottom right hand corner of the cover

At first I thought this was Clayface when I first

saw this cover At first I really really did and

then I'm thinking oh wait with the events of

Forever Evil maybe it's all the crime syndicate

choking the hell out of Nightwing now We do have

to talk about Forever Evil a little bit here

I have read all seven issues, honestly, outside

of Nightwing's fate. I don't give a crap about

the story. Oh really? See to me it was one of

my favorite events that DC's done in a long time.

I'm gonna have to go back to it because I believe

in a couple of months or a cup I'm not sure when

but my buddy JT from Saskatoon and I are gonna

are gonna do a full -on coverage of all seven

issues I'm not exactly sure when here in the

pullback but as of right now after reading all

seven issues the only thing I cared about was

finding out what happened to Dick Grayson. Well

then here's the thing I'll throw out there and

you can correct me if I'm wrong. when I say this,

but I don't think that you really care much about

the DC universe outside of Batman mythos. The

Batman characters. Kind of. Little bit. If I

could get my hands on the trades that deal with

John and Kyle as lanterns, I would probably care.

I don't give a crap about Jesus Jordan. I've

seen him way too many damn times. uh... i think

they need to you know start promoting some of

the other group i would love to see a kill a

walk movie honestly if they won't do it john

steward or a kyle reyner movie i want to see

killawog center stage yeah that'd be cool oh

god can you imagine killawog and flash movie

based on justice league that would be so freaking

awesome but i will say when you're looking at

a story like forever evil you're dealing with

the with a grand scope dc universe story you're

not dealing with just individual characters or

a central focus even a story like uh... blackest

night which i think was the last time dc did

a really great crossover story. Even though that

was focused on the Green Lanterns, it really

was a DC universe. It really did encapsulate

the whole DC universe. Forever Evil, I think,

did more so of that. I really can't look at Forever

Evil and say this was more of a Batman story,

or this was more of a Justice League story, or

this was more of a whatever. It was really a

DC universe story. It impacted everything in

the DC universe, and that's why I really liked

it. And I thought it was well done. I thought

the art was beautiful in all of it. I the only

thing I didn't like about is that that last issue

took forever to come out so Yeah, we got to talk

about that because Nightwing number 30 and forever

evil number seven. I don't understand Because

I looked in which was it I looked in one of the

books I think it was it one of these it's either

28 or 29 that has a checklist of Forget I'm trying

to thumb through here so fast. Okay. Here it

is because it has the fun Yeah, the final fate

of Nightwing ad in Nightwing number 28 February

checklist for so oh so I should be looking at

29 in 29 it has the march checklist was supposed

to be forever evil number seven and blah blah

blah forever evil and nightwing got pushed back

until may i have no idea why dc editorial did

this it took me completely out of the book and

honestly for me kyle wasn't writing 30 Yeah,

so I really I was pretty much out Honestly to

me this the new 52 Nightwing series ends at issue

29 They I think what they needed to do in all

honesty to to make sure that people understood

the impact of it is I think they needed to put

for Nightwing number 30 forever evil aftermath

or After forever evil or something like that.

So people knew that it took place after issue

7 because it really is a tie -in more to forever

evil than it is to a wrap -up of Nightwing. Absolutely.

Alright, so Nightwing 28. This is, and this is

why, I've interviewed Kyle once already on this

podcast and I really want to interview him again

because of what's going on in Batman Beyond 2

.0 but I love how he starts stuff out. Okay,

I can explain. I mean he basically gets every

general cliched guy line out of the way in the

first two or three, or maybe it's not what it

looks like would be better. Right, because it

looks like Batgirl's pissed at him and choking

him to death. Again. Yep, yep, again. I should

say that the art here is done by Russell Dottaman,

and the one thing about the Nightwing art over

the series, over the entire 30 issues plus the

annual It's changed and evolved over time and

it's, you know, different artists have put their

imprint, but so far no artist that has been on

this book has really made me say a bad thing

about the art. There are times, yeah, there are

times in the early issues with Eddie Barrows,

and as much as I love Eddie Barrows drawing this

universe here with Nightwing, there were times

where I thought, Dick Grayson looked a little

bit off model in the early issues, but it wasn't

anything that was like This art sucks, you know

so we've got a nightwing in this T 1000 looking

thing yeah Yes spine. Yeah, I remember when I

first read this issue and I was like spine bender

Hey, are they trying to is he trying to do a

play on words for spell binder from Batman Beyond?

And again, Kyle's dialogue, along with the art.

I know a lot of people are die -hard. Nightwing

has to be black and blue, not black and red.

I love the black and red. Yeah, I'm good with

either. I really, really do. I mean, as much

as I love the old DC animated universe and the

blue and that, The red in this just looks so

much better. Well, the one thing I was going

to say is when I started reading this, I actually

had to pick up issue 27 because I was like, did

I miss a cliffhanger that I didn't know about?

And that's not really a complaint. It was just

like, I started reading this, I go. I don't remember

him fighting this Spinebender guy in the last

issue. But that was kind of what was cool about

it, and that's what some comics do that I think

they do really well, is they throw you right

in the middle of the action. You weren't missing

anything. It's just, this is the villain that

he's fighting at the beginning of the story,

but that's not necessarily what the whole story's

about. Yeah, absolutely. It's kind of very, it's...

I only say this because I've seen several episodes

of Batman brave and the bold Would you say it's

kind of silver age II where you start off somewhere,

and then you go someplace else after the credits

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's very to me. It's

very Don't know I want to say almost like movie

like where they're like, okay We're open, you

know, we're opening up with a nice action scene

and now we're gonna get into the meat of the

story. So Especially action movies a lot of times

they open with that big action scene and then

you get to learn who the characters are After

that initial action scene. So yeah, it's kind

of like leave the weapon three, right? Thank

you Are those little hearts? So we have Spindbender

who is a shape, she's basically the male mystique

of the DC universe. He's a shapeshifter. So he

goes through all these things and he's like,

oh, that's not working for you. Maybe somebody

perfect. And somehow, what I assume is... Yeah,

those nails. Some girl is standing so close to

the action that she gets, you know, high quality

cell phone video of this fight. The one I found

really interesting, because I don't think it's

been done in the new 52 yet, is the spine bender

changes into looking like Deathstroke. And from

old DCU, Nightwing and Deathstroke are... Arch

rivals of each other. So Batman has his Joker

Nightwing's arch enemy in the old DCU was Deathstroke,

especially when it came to the Teen Titans When

he was with the Teen Titans so to see Deathstroke

versus Nightwing even if it's just for a little

millisecond There was really cool to me as an

old -time fan to see them go up against each

other again. Oh Yeah, that's that is so very

cool. Absolutely So the battle ends and we start

after it ends we start with another page twist

here where I want you to know you have every

right to hold what you're holding against me

and we go to the prison where Tony Zuko is being

held now let me ask you what was your initial

reaction when you first realized that he faked

his own death I liked that twist on it It's one

of those things like this. This is definitely

a very emotional scene and It might be the one

thing that I'm regretting with Nightwing moving

on to something else is I don't think we're gonna

see This develop anymore. I feel like Zuko like

where this story could go is that Zuko will get

out of prison and And then there'll be something

else later on in this issue that I'll bring up

also that would have been nice to see develop

a little bit more But yeah seeing him, you know

Was fine with the fact that they said, you know

He basically faked his death and now he's here

again and he was living another life and everything

else like I can I can live with that so yeah,

I mean I was fine with it too. I mean, I thought

it was great. I thought it was a interesting

way to have Nightwing go kind of full circle

and a hat because I mean from where Kyle started

the story And you know issue one to now. I mean,

it's really all come full circle. Yeah Pretty

much and the thing is he had a he mean he had

a everything he wanted again. He had a new wife

He had a new kid as far as Tony Zuko went and

that's why like, you know in this in this page

his wife is telling him like no, you don't understand

you're I'm gonna make it sure it's my mission

make sure you never leave jail because the one

thing you've never been able to admit to it or

explain is Did were you responsible for the Grayson's

dying and he just looks at her which basically

gives her the answer She she expected which is

yes He's responsible and she walks off and I

could almost see that turning into a new hatred

for Zuko for the Nightwing character of saying

like My family is gone. It's all his fault when

really it's it really it's Tony Zuko's fault,

but villains never see themselves as being at

fault they always see the hero as the One at

fault for why they've lost everything See for

some reason now that you pointed out that that's

his wife. I thought that was Sonya for a while

I thought it was his daughter They do look similar

I'll give you that So we then get to you know

throughout this whole time Nightwing is doing

this, you know internal monologue and narration

and You know, he's talking about, you know, ten

injured and a couple hundred thousand in property

damage, easy. All because of a guy who came to

town to kill me. Yeah, silver linings, my...

And we run into this family who... They're basically...

One of his roommates is babysitting for this

family. And the daughter stays with... her during

the day and his roommates trying to find a job

and everything else but in the meantime she's

she's doing this babysitting and they're just

that wholesome everyday family I mean they might

be a little bit more bohemian from some of the

things they're looking to do but but yeah they're

just like a normal family and they they were

picking up their daughter who had been being

babysat that day so and you know And the daughter,

Jen, because she did in the previous issue, I

think it was 26 or 27. Yeah, it was one of those

two. 26 or 27, she found Dick's little hiding

place on the floor for his equipment and his

suit and everything else, and she knows that

he's Nightwing. Yep. And the bottom page is her

staring back at him, and it's like she's got

a secret. Yep. This has always fascinated me,

how comic companies, I don't know if it's something

that they would do, and this is just a little,

it's not a nitpick, I'm not criticizing this,

it's just a curiosity of mine. Like every now

and then I'll see iPhone -like devices, or in

this case of this page, it's basically YouTube.

I don't know. how that kind of thing would work

in a comic. Does DC talk to these companies and

ask them, hey, can we use a one -off or use your

direct model of? Well, if you notice, especially

with the Apple laptop there, it's just slightly

different. So well, yeah, it's slightly different,

but I'm more so concerned about the YouTube page

and this isn't a huge thing I'm you know, this

isn't I'm not gonna dwell on this but I'm just

kind of curious how how comic companies and how

you know kind of writes things work and maybe

people can tell me in the comments, but how would

you go about you know, if you're The editor on

this book. How would you go about con? Would

you just contact? YouTube and say hey our artists

want to use your video site service? They can

do that, however, I think with this particular

one, and I know it looks exactly like YouTube,

but I think with this particular one, because

they're not really, they're only showing a section

there, I think they can kind of get away with

it without having to contact YouTube and saying

that we want to use the way your screen looks.

But I do know that they... Definitely can con

they have contacts at different places to say

hey Can we use the look of this or that or whatever

and most times those places are pretty open to

it because it's free advertising Yeah, pretty

much So So this whole YouTube thing it's it's

Dick Grayson and his other roommate Michael because

his roommate Joey is the one that's looking for

a job You know they're you know they're looking

at this this cell phone footage that was got

from this lady from her from the fight earlier

and they're talking about Michael is saying he

never should have told Maxwell off at least I

would have at least with him I had access to

things and Dick basically counters that by saying

yeah you had to spin yeah but you had to spin

stories his way come on Michael you're doing

the right thing here finding your own leads And

then lo and behold Sonya Zuko shows up. Yep And

Dick tries to get out of talking to her, but

Michael won't let that happen. Yeah, no Michael

is not being a really good wingman if the if

the guy wants out you support that you don't

just yeah, I like the Relationship quote -unquote

friendship between Sonya Zuko and Dick Grayson.

Yeah But it's not who I see him with Well, and

honestly I bet this is the other thing that I

am gonna miss that they aren't gonna really I

doubt they're gonna go back and develop at all

is And that not to spoil something later, but

basically, you know, he does reach out to her

again later to Yeah have dinner and everything

and it would have been nice to see the relationship

develop, even if it wasn't going to be the ultimate

relationship of his life and everything else,

because let's face it, him and Barbara should

be together. They should be married at this point.

Right. But it's still nice to see... I really

liked this relationship, especially because it's

the daughter of his... most hated enemy probably

yeah, so the fact that maybe he can overcome

that would be is a nice thing and Like I said,

that's this is the other thing that I'm sad to

not see developed because I highly doubt it's

gonna be developed later on so Well later on

everybody everybody except one person knows that

he's dead. Yeah So yeah, we get the relationship

stuff with so and it's It's so depressing watching

their reaction their their interaction here it

really really is because it's like Two people

on a first date that have no idea what to say

to each other because something happened to them

in their past Before they even met each right?

Like you know you take you know boy x over here

and girl y over here whom have never met something

happens to each of them that kind of affects

both of them together without them ever meeting

and then they meet they date at some point in

their lives and then they move on and they're

coming back together again and it's like um hey

yeah and things are just never going to be the

same and yeah it's just never going to be the

way it was but i thought was done very effectively

here and i i like oh absolutely i like the fact

that you know she apologizes for what happened

and he and apologize for kind of the way he reacted

to everything so and yeah she they just kind

of go their separate ways and that's that so

we go back to we go back to his apartment and

Joey is telling him that Greg and Cheryl were

murdered to mugged and then killed tonight and

that's the parents of the little girl that she

beat I love what Kyle's doing here because he's

basically making a female Nightwing, regardless

if they ever use... I don't think Jen will ever

come back. I honestly don't. But they're basically

giving Dick a chance to be Batman without being...

Bruce Wayne, you know what I mean? I mean, Kyle

is basically telling us, hey, look, Dick Grayson

here is supposed to be what Bruce Wayne was to

him at that age. And again, the art, just the

way that. Dotterman draws dick in this At the

bottom of this panel. It's absolutely amazing.

Yeah. Oh, yeah with the two panels of of Jen

and then him as a little boy It's done just really

well. So absolutely. Yeah, he draws good dick

Where's a rimshot app when you really need one

the only thing I will say With this that that

I didn't like it took me a little bit out of

the story is I like the fact that you know She's

having to deal with her parents death and everything

else, but it was a little too close to Batman

losing or Bruce losing his parents like It could

have happened like oh, it's a mugging and now

she's an orphan and both. I'm like, oh okay like

that's a little too close to home like right

a little bit they've been hit by a car or something

else okay but would you rather have it be a mugging

in a killing or would you rather have it be um

you know somebody um cutting the ropes and they

fall from a hundred foot trapeze. And I was going

to say earlier when I first saw Greg and Cheryl,

when I first saw the three of them, Greg, Cheryl,

and Jen, I was like, hey, it's John, Mary, and

Dick. Because it really did look like the Graysons,

except they had a daughter instead of a son.

And I think that's another thing with this issue

for the most part for me that just took me a

little bit out of it. There were moments that

were definitely predictable for me like when

I saw that family together I'm like, they're

not gonna be together much Not that it wasn't

told effectively, but like I said just I was

like, oh, okay I kind of see this as going in

a bad direction soon and and then like you said

the fact that they were the the two parents with

the little child getting mugged and the two parents

getting killed and the daughter still being there

I was like Okay seen this before. And I know

that's what they were going for. I mean, obviously.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And the final two pages here

are, yeah, final two pages because the page on

the other side is a stupid ad. They're basically,

you know, Dick is looking for Jen and Michael's

like, where'd she go? You don't think? I'm not

sure. Oh, no. Yeah, because basically she told

Dick that I know who you are. I want to go after

this guy and I want you to help me. And he says,

well, let me go get you some water and we could

talk about this. And while he's going to get

the water, she runs off. And then they realize

that she left and Dick explains to Joey and Michael

that, you know, she said that she knows who killed

her parents and. she's going after him and that's

when Joey reveals to him that while the police

are saying they know who did it and it's this

guy that goes by the name of Mr. Zaz or Zaz however

you want to say it. Yeah now I talked to Steve

Megatron about this so when this issue first

came out Because I thought Kyle was bringing

in another new villain, but apparently Mr. Zaz

has been around for a while. Okay, hey, you know.

No, and I understand where you're coming from.

It does seem like a new villain, and that's fine.

But yeah, Mr. Zaz is actually one of my favorite

Batman villains because he's so psychotic. I

mean, he's just, he's out there. Is he more psychotic

than the guy who wears makeup and... Depends

on which direction you want to go in I mean this

guy I don't know if you know the story behind

if you were told the story behind him but basically

he's a serial killer who every time he kills

someone he scars his own body as Like little

ticks on it on himself to for every kill now

to scar your body those cuts have to be pretty

deep So he's he's on par with Mr. J He's a little

bit in my opinion He's a little bit more deadly

than him because mr. Zaz wants to just kill you

Where the Joker wants to have fun with you and

then kill you? Which is also one of the things

that kind of stood out with me for this issue

I was like why did the little girl survive because

mr. Zaz would not have had any survivors The

Joker would definitely leave a survivor behind

just for the fun of it Yeah, that's true, but

I think the reason why she did for this issue

was for Grayson to teach her a lesson sure and

in the next issue Yeah, she could have been running

away while her parents were being murdered I

mean that that could be how she why she got away

and everything so Final thoughts on this one

before we move on to 29? Just solid issue. It's

a good issue. Like I said, the beginning of it

made me feel like I had missed something in the

previous issue, but I didn't have a problem with

that. Like I said, there were a couple moments

that were a little bit predictable, but still

a solid story. I liked it overall. I like the

next couple issues better than this one, but

it's still a solid issue. Alright, we're gonna

take another quick break and we'll come back

with Nightwing 29 after this Hey, it's a free

rooftop, isn't it? Nightwing, what are you doing

here? Oh just following a pattern of obsessive

behavior instilled in me at an early age You

should work on your stealth skills. I heard you're

coming halfway across the roof. Good to see you,

too. Hey look Alright folks up next is Nightwing

number 29 uh... kyle higgins russle dot and again

uh... ambushed and it basically has everybody

that he's faced in his new fifty two and then

some uh... i mean it's got zuko it's got prankster

uh... means all while i didn't even notice chill

while he had joker uh... i like this cover but

it's not See I thought how they were gonna do

it was for every evil number six was gonna come

out they were gonna kill him in that and then

The aftermath of that was gonna happen in this

issue bit but because DC editorial back, you

know pushed everything back and Supposedly wanted

to tell a more fluid story. Yeah So this is Kyle

Higgins final issue this to me is the finale

of the Nightwing series When we talk about number

30 here in a little bit number 30 is kind of

like a Period on it's it's a It's a comma and

then some sort of question mark as far as what's

going to happen with the future of them is the

way I look at it Yeah, it's like it like you

said, it's like an aftermath of forever. Yeah,

and a prequel to the Grayson series But this

one starts out with and this is by far This is

the best Kyle has ever written a character in

the monologue. It really really is there. There

isn't a line in here Would love to see this issue

I would love to see these final two issues made

into some animated film I know they never will

be but like Kyle's writing in this issue specifically

is just Gut -wrenching awesome. Yeah So we start

with you know, everything is just changed part

of you thinks your life is over the other part

thinks that some people Uh, that's just something

people say. You're in shock. It doesn't feel

real. Your friends are there for you, but they

don't understand. You're only sure of one thing.

You want to hurt the person that hurt you. Now

throughout this, this monologue that he's saying

here, he's basically telling a story to Jen.

Right. which we find out at the end or near the

end. Yeah, near the end. But the thing I love

with it, and you talked about the art in the

previous issue, when we're getting these monologues

of him talking to Jen that we find out later,

while we're getting those, we're getting a whole

history of his life. And the art on those pages

specifically is absolutely gorgeous. I as much

as I loathe the idea of Dick Grayson as as a

Talon I Want that page as a 17 by 11 by 17 post.

Oh, yeah, seriously like oh my god. That looks

so awesome. Yeah So we basically pick up right

where we left off in 28 where Jen is gone and

and dick is gonna go find her and Joey basically

says don't lie to me. He says I'm not I'm not

I promise Time moves on you start a new life

And yeah the art here look at that bad signal

Yeah, you get Batman and Robin there and it's

like all of the or not all of but some a lot

of the Robes gallery of Batman and Joker Harley

Scarecrow, Two -Face, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze.

Oh, of course. Yeah. And you have, you know,

Robin doing his thing. Dick Grayson, Robin doing

his thing of just like being the flame, the flashy

flamboyant one that they come after and him using

his acrobatics to take them out and everything.

It's really cool. And then I just love how that

transitions right into that big splash page of

One pager that's until you find you and it shows

him in his nightwing garb like flying through

the air. So Just really cool. Yeah, it really

really is even my dog loves it But what I love

like What I love about all of this is that that

you know Again, the monologue. Yeah, you want

to become someone stronger. So you try on different

people and That line when I first heard I'm like

trend is he pulling a joker on us? And then you

know until you find the right you and then that's

when we have that giant You know him leaping

in the air off whatever building it is and oh

my god Grayson and we can talk about this more

so when we get into 30 or beyond 30. Dick Grayson

has always been a character of transition. So

he was the acrobat circus performer and then

he transitioned into being Robin and during that

time he transitioned into being Bruce Wayne's

son because Bruce Wayne adopted him. And then

he transitioned into being Nightwing and the

leader of the Teen Titans and then he transitioned

into being Batman. I mean, there was just he's

constantly a character of transition. for whatever

is needed at that time. And that's actually mentioned

in these issues too. Which I've always liked

about the character. He's probably the most adaptable

character in the DC universe. And this is what

separates him from being Spider -Man. Because

I know a lot of people, especially during the

Superior run, when Superior had the black and

red suit, And I was like, oh my god, they're

ripping off Nightwing's outfit. And then the

monologue, you know, we go to Mr. Zazz, who is

doing one of these deep cut gash things, and

we see him in his little apartment there, and

we see Jen. Hey, Zazz. And then, you know, his

monologue continues. Then one day, your old life

comes back. When it harkens back to the early

issues of this new 52 Nightwing series of like

some of the circus people that he used to perform

with Fighting talon kissing. What's her name?

Oh? Not Riley crap is it Raina? Yeah. Yeah, yeah

You know, you know, he says your friends have

changed as much as you have you wonder if that's

if somehow that's your fault if you're the reason

things fell apart, if you should have done something

different. And yeah, you're right, the art on

those flashback pages is just brilliant. It really,

really is. Now the big glaring thing I had with

this issue, I love this issue, except there's

one glaring plot hole that doesn't make any sense

to me whatsoever. Okay. How does Jen find Mr.

Zaz? I know how Nightwing finds her, but how

does she find Mr. Zaz's apartment? That's never

explained. It doesn't make a lick of sense. Yeah.

That's the one big plot hole that I'm like, I

don't know how she found him. It's okay. I mean,

it didn't take away the enjoyment of the issue,

but I was like... There's no way she found him

like he's in his apartment. If she had gone back

to maybe the scene of the crime and he was still

there That would make that would make sense.

But how did she find his apartment? Like did

she just look up Zaz in the phone book and And

if she did that, how come the police can't do

that Yeah, that's true. I think the Gotham PD

needs to get her on the payroll because she can

yeah, but see that there's a big difference though

This has nothing to do with the oh, yeah The

this has nothing to do with the incompetence

of GCPD. Sometimes it has to do with Chicago.

This is the Chicago PD. Oh geez So she goes and

she's gonna attack Zazz He basically just backhands

her and says this, you know, there's plenty of

room you can join mom and dad and we get more

of Nightwing's dialogue a lot of things go through

your mind and we flip the page And this is where

that beautiful, beautiful image happens. You

start to question what you've become, what you

could have been, what some say you should have

been. And on this page is Nightwing versus the

Talon and the giant white owl basically spitting

blood. And we have Dick Grayson as a Talon. with

the court surrounding him because Haley Circus

was supposed to be that farming ground for talons

and it was and I loved that retcon being thrown

into there that he if Bruce Wayne had not come

along and Tony Zuko had not killed his parents

that Dick Grayson would have become a talon.

I love the fact that that could have happened.

I'm glad it didn't, but. I almost, you know what,

seriously, and we'll get to this a little bit

later when we talk about certain previews of

things that are coming up with the character,

but I honestly was hoping after I saw this, if

this was going to be the final, before I got

to the final page of this book, I was like, yes,

please make him a talon, that's a book I want

to read, Dick Grayson as the talon, you know,

go ahead, do it, do it, I want you to do it,

because, and again, Kyle writes this character

the way anyone should write a character that

you absolutely love. I mean, Kyle's writing it

just... I'm telling you. I'm telling you, ladies

and gentlemen, by the end of this little issue

here that... I'm probably, both times that I've

read this issue, I've ended up in tears at the

end of the book. The only thing I would have,

and I think it could have been interesting to

see him as a talent, the only thing is that they

would have had to brainwash him or something

because it's so far removed from who he is as

a character. We'll talk about that in issue 30

also, where Dick Grayson doesn't give up. You

would have had to brainwash him to make him a

talent because you weren't going to be able to

convince him to become one. It just wasn't going

to happen. Then we see reflections of Amusement

Mile. He goes on to say that your parents wouldn't

be proud of you. You swear you're going to do

better. You're going to be better. You're going

to build a legacy, but sometimes you don't get

the chance. you uh... sometimes you do let people

down uh... and that's the other thing we should

talk about while we're talking about these issues

is because joker blew up amusement mile where

he did something to amusement mile back in episode

in issue fifteen sixteen during whole death of

a like i would have loved to have seen dick in

charge of Having his own circus as a day job

in Gotham. Yeah, I think that would have been

a really awesome thing And that's where I was

hoping they were going with the whole thing and

then obviously they didn't so But yeah, I think

that would have been really really cool So he

breathe he finds Zazz's apartment and Breaks,

you know, basically shatters the glass like Batman

would and he says see Jen. That's the thing about

stealing somebody's gear You never know what's

gonna trick What's got a tracker and then Zazz

just I it looks like Zazz cuts him because Zazz

has the knife in his hand Yeah, but I think he

just hits it just punches him. Yeah. Yeah And

again the art So good. Yeah, there's a lot of

nice motion scenes I mean, there's not a lot

of words in these panels, but you don't need

words for what's happening I mean you have Zazz

and I'm I'm so glad with the words that are happening,

with the sound effects, with the... You know,

because they're hitting each other. I'm so glad

it's a lot of Biff Bang Pows out with Zappa Groo.

Give it to me both. I mean, as much as I like

that stuff in the old series, I know you're not

a fan of 66. I know, I know. And then, you know,

he basically beats Zazz and... He says I guess

in the end what I'm really trying to say Is there's

no easy path through this from here on out things

are going to be hard really hard There will be

days when you're sad, and you won't know why

something funny will happen You want to call

your mom and tell her about it, and you remember

you can't And I think this is really you were

talking about being very emotional and it is

I think This is some really great, this is a

really great monologue for someone that has lost

somebody in their life, whether it be a parent

or a significant other or something like that.

I mean, I don't know if Kyle has dealt with loss

in his life of that significance of someone that

close, but I mean, what he says there as far

as like, almost like you'll forget sometimes

that they're not there anymore is very true.

I mean, no matter how long... time has gone by,

you do sometimes forget and you instinctively

want to turn to that person or call them or write

to them or something like that. And so I think

he just captured that perfectly in this dialogue.

Oh, absolutely. And he and okay. Here's the thing

to take a little ad break considering they put

it in here It's evil versus evil for the future

of the DC universe after evil March checklist

for every evil number seven For every evil number

seven and nightwing number 30. We're supposed

to be out in March Not the end of May. Yeah,

damn it Well, and and I don't blame DC for that

I because I think it had more to do with the

creators. It's not like DC said, like, yeah,

let's hold on to this issue. Oh, I'm sure that's

what the Dio said. Let's just screw with the

fans more and not give them a file. Let's give

them issue six and let them scrounge for four

months. I think just because I know this artist's

history, I think it was waiting for Finch to

finish drawing it. David Finch is not known for

being able to carry on an ongoing series He's

tried many times and his book has always been

delayed because of it And I think that's what

happened here. I think that they were waiting

for him to finish He had he had drawn the whole

series already. So they didn't want to just go

to another artist No, I'm talking about for forever

evils number seven Okay, and then because that

you know these issues were coming out You know

issue 30 and stuff like that and Justice League

and everything else were really aftermaths to

Forever Evil 7 They had to wait till Forever

Evil 7 came out So I blame I honestly until they

can prove it otherwise or he can prove it otherwise

I blame the whole thing on Finch and I love his

art, but I He's known for delaying books uh...

so dick gives uh... gives gin his mom's bracelet

i think it is that's the one that he had bought

for her the night that she died the night she

died yeah uh... he says no matter how he says

because no matter how dark things get i want

you to remember they won't always be that way

gin they'll get better just like they have for

me and if you remember on their on the bracelet

too it has robin's on it Which is where he in

in the new 52 that's where he gets the idea for

the name of Robin Be the sidekick name I'm trying

really hard here people Trying really hard because

this is just I mean You know we we we go you

know we see the end with Jen and we see the You

know him talking about the last few years haven't

been easy, but then there's a morning like this

And then there's a Jen and he basically texts

Sonya Says that he's gonna be in Gotham in a

few days. You know Gotham for a few days and

you want to have dinner Yeah, and then we get

that final we get that final a little monologue

here. I love this one. This is probably one of

my favorites out of the whole thing. You might

have to read it because I don't know if I can.

I can read it. Yeah, it's because when you get

and to me this is why and we can get into it

later. But this is why I don't have as much of

an issue because again goes back to me saying

that this character is a transitional character.

He says, because when you get down to it, my

life isn't about the costumes or the bad guys.

It's not about the cities or the symbols. It's

way simpler than that. I mean, I grew up in a

circus. It's always been about catching people

when they fall. And to me, that speaks to his

ability to adapt and transition. He's there for

what you need him for. And if you're going to

fall, he will change who he is to make sure he

catches you. Yeah, I love that last page. I don't

think I've ever seen any superhero Clark Kent

Bruce Wayne Any male superhero? I don't think

I've ever seen them use a damn hoodie Now this

actually reminds me I put it on Facebook Oh God

months and months ago when I first read this

issue uh... this reminded me of the water color

drawing tony silas did for terry mcginnis and

it's so very similar to it and i absolutely love

it's uh... twenty nine as a finale is the conclusion

to the to the jen story uh... absolutely love

it there at the art the writer kyle's writing

has never been better with this character this

issue it's absolutely amazing All right, any

final thoughts for 29? No, like I said, I loved

it. The art was beautiful on those flashback

pages. Like I said, the only thing that took

me a little bit out of the story, and I was hoping

that they were going to explain it, was just

how Jen found Mr. Zaz. That took me a little

bit out of it, but that's my only negative comment

about that issue. Yeah. That... 29 to me ladies

and gentlemen is this it was Kyle's last written

issue on the series That is the series finale.

We are gonna be reviewing number 30 here in a

few moments, but That's it that's the end of

this I like that ending better than The ending

that we're gonna be getting here in a few moments.

We'll be back after this I changed the menu Bad

girl. I still can't believe it. How could you

keep something like this from me? You weren't

exactly honest with me either. But you told him.

He knew. It wasn't my place to tell you. But

it was your place to put her in danger. It wasn't

like that. I volunteered. You think you did.

You don't know him like I do. He manipulates,

pulls strings. Anything to get what he wants.

I thought we had the same goals. Things change.

changed the game's over Batman I quit Robin wait

so we are back and Nightwing number 30 the main

cover is basically Dick's mask in the pool of

blood With a very out of place 75th anniversary

Batman yellow logo right next to it almost it

now if they would have put that just a little

bit down to the right if they like On because

I'm looking at this like comics ology on the

right -hand side It said you know ready T for

teen it gives you the the the issue date or whatever

and On the bottom it says DC comics calm if they

would have put the Batman yellow 75 Logo like

down here on the rock. Yeah, like right above

that. I wouldn't have a problem with it. I agree

with you that Just takes so much away out of

the part that cracks me up the most about the

whole Batman 75th is that they are focusing they're

putting so much focus on doing amazing things

for the Batman 75th anniversary that they did

not do a squat amount for Superman. That just

shows you Batman's more powerful than our popular

elves. He is, but... Also, I mean there's also

a lot of people that love Superman just as much

and oh absolutely And so it just boggles my mind.

I'm like, wow really you went all out and Superman

was the first character too So it's just yeah,

it's just very weird to me that he's getting

that much attention I'm not complaining because

I love all the stuff that's coming out but So

the title of this story is setting Sun Now, I'm

doing this through Comixology Guided View, so

I'm going basically panel by panel. And the bottom

of it says, the Democratic Republic of Congo

two months ago. Now, I am happy with this issue

that they kept the red and blue. Sometimes when

other writers that aren't a main writer, like

take... Take whatever issues Gail Simone wasn't

on Batgirl. I think it was 17 and 18 They didn't

use the purple yellow and black for the for the

for her monologue They used some other colors.

It wasn't Gail. I don't like that, but I'm so

glad they kind of kept this And So this this

issue, let's see Tim Seeley and Tom King are

the writers And just to give you some background

with them, Tim Seeley has been around for a long

time. He's currently writing Revival. He's written

GI Joe in the past. That's where I first saw

him appear. And then Tom King is fairly new to

writing comics, but he's written books. He has

a book out called Once Crowded Sky, which is

a superhero -based novel. Yeah, and it's actually

very good. I've read I've read it. It's it's

really well done and I know Tom King I've met

him many times and everything else and and he

Above anyone else has really delved into the

history of the character of Dick Grayson He's

done a lot of research for what is to come and

he's also to give you a little background with

him He's a previously a CIA. He previously worked

for the CIA so he knows what he's about to write.

Let's put it that way. Oh, I'm sure. So this

one starts off in, like I said, the Democratic

Republic of Congo. And the title of the story

is Setting Sun, not S -U -N -S -O -N. And they

start with this... I glazed over for Evil Number

7 as of this recording. Like I said earlier,

I only really cared to figure out what happens

to Dick and I'll just spoil it now for everybody,

Lex brings him back to life with a shot of adrenaline

because he gave him some pill that would stop

his blood vessels or give him heart palpitations

or something or other that wouldn't actually

kill him but look like it would kill him. I'm

not sure what the deal is with this starting

and like, when I first read this, I'm like, okay,

this, what does any of this crap have to do with

Nightwing? Yeah. Well, and I will say like the

beginning of this story is threw me off a little

bit because I, well, number one, they went through

three different artists in this issue and this

first artist, the The art was a little too cartoony

for my liking considering the topic if it was

if it was not, you know terrorists attacking

You know a medical location in the the Congo

I could see, you know this type of art working

well for a Fun type story, but not for terrorists

attacking a medical location Yeah, so that was

that was one of the drawbacks for me But I really

loved the introduction, well, I think she's been

introduced before in the New 52, but Leslie Tompkins,

who is a long -standing Batman supporting character.

Is that supposed to be Lobo? No, that is not

Lobo. I think it's a kiss reject. Gene Simmons,

you are not. Yeah, it's this weird group that

evidently likes to earn points by killing...

people Yeah, I I bought Nightwing 30 on Comixology

specifically to see what what the guided view

would show with the story and I really thought

it was gonna be Like the beginning part one of

this story was gonna be like Nightwing centric

all the way Yeah, and it really isn't I remember

the first time when I bought this when it came

out. I just Honestly, as much as I like Dr. Leslie

Tompkins, I honestly didn't give a crap about

anything that's going on here because it has

nothing to do with Nightwing. Yeah, the beginning

of it really did throw me off. I'll strongly

support you on that because I was reading and

I go, this is the last issue of Nightwing and

where is he? And I thought at any moment he was

going to be the one that came in and rescued

Leslie. And it wasn't. And it got really weird.

because it got weird with the lady with the wings.

Well, number one, the lady that saves Leslie

Tompkins is this lady wearing a white coat that's

pretty much open to her breast popping out at

any moment. And she saves her and she's got these

really crazy lights in her eyes that evidently

are part of this whole spiral organization that

we find out about later. And all of a sudden

she grows wings, but I don't know if it's because

Leslie got drugged or something like that. That's

what I'm assuming. Because the rest of it, she

definitely says that she thinks she was drugged

or hypnotized or something like that. And that's

why she was she was seeing all this trippy stuff

going on around her where she's approached by

this guy that's got like this swirly face. And

she says that, you know, she was asked like why

she does what she does. And she reveals that

it's because of Bruce Wayne as a little boy.

Which I thought that was pretty cool. I like

that part of it The lady in white the african

-american lady in white with the mask and everything

else so when I first saw her and I saw the wings

I'm like hey Hey storm and Warren Worthington

got together and had a baby And she's not sure

Dr. Tompkins isn't sure if she... All she remembers

is talking about how there was a little boy,

Bruce, who inspired her to make sure that other

people don't have to suffer with pain, but she

reveals to Batman, because she knows who Batman

is, that she's not sure if she revealed... That's

all she remembers, and she's not sure if she

revealed... who batman was and every time she

closes her eyes she sees the symbol of a spider

web with an eyeball in the eye in the middle

of it so yeah um yeah so yeah so she sees the

spider web and then we go to gotham child services

offices now and you know she's asking was it

a dream you know was the hero When the hero was

mortally wounded he came to the doctor and he'd

met on the darkest night of his life God help

me. Maybe I told them maybe I told them that

I know who Batman is. Yeah And we have this beautiful

absolutely hauntingly beautiful image of Wade

Manor. Yeah, very Which is a month later and

this art I liked a lot better this is the second

artist that was wrong once we got to this point

in We have Alfred going down or trying to go

down to the Batcave but he gets stopped and Bruce

tells him that there was some problems and Alfred's

of course crying because you know they lost he

believes that they lost Dick Grayson that he's

dead and Batman tells him you know not to worry

about things he's gonna fix things and he'll

be able to come down later and we find out the

reason why is that Alfred's being prevented from

coming down there is because Dick is down with

with Bruce and they're about to tussle basically

They're about to throw down Yeah, pretty much

and this is the scene that I that really made

this issue for me is the page after page Tom

King actually mentioned in a podcast episode

I heard that he said he was going for and was

allowed to do What he always wanted to see as

the ultimate fight between Dick Grayson and Bruce

Wayne the ultimate throwdown no -holds -barred

fight between the two of them. And I honestly

think that that's what you got here. Oh, yeah.

And they're throwing each other into cases and

using like giant dice and everything else being

thrown at each other. And it comes down to Bruce

wants. Dick Grayson to still pretend to be dead

and because he wants him to infiltrate this organization

called Spiral and the only way he can do that

is if the rest of the world believes he's dead

because they'll try to recruit him then. because

they all believe that he knows what's going on

and who the other heroes are, because Bruce believes

that what they're doing is they're hunting down

masked heroes, even though their persona is that

they're out there trying to save the common man

and everyone else. Bruce doesn't trust anyone

else to do it. He says, you know, other heroes

that are my friends, they'll give up. They will

give in and I need to make sure that you are

not someone that's going to give up, that you

will not quit, especially with everything that's

happened to you. And that's really the essence

behind this fight is he's like, I want to see,

do you still want to live? Do you still want

to put everything out there? And will you not

give up? And Dick doesn't like what's happening

because, you know, he's like, I don't want to

have to lie to my family. And he views Barbara

and Alfred, all them as his family. Mean I I

love the panels when he says no, I won't do it.

I can't stay dead. I can't do it to them. Yeah

They fight the usual evil around the world, but

Tim You know terrorists murderers the cowardly

and superstitious Jason a lot of people fight

that fight these days Alfred and then Barbara

spiral is that I have to say as much as I really

don't like a lot of this issue That image of

him screaming Barbara with the exclamation point

and the blue explosion behind him. Yeah, that's

an awesome. Yeah That is just awesome. Yeah,

and then you know, we we find that they're you

know bashing each other and everything else and

finally Dick says I'm not your boy and to me

that's a growing up moment for him is making

him making Bruce realize like look I'm I'm not

yours to really control anymore but at the same

time he's like I need you to do this and Dick

accepts it but I love the fact that you know

at the beginning of this whole fight Bruce told

him like there's one rule to this in this fight

We've sparred many times but there's one rule

for this and it's that you have to win and so

then at the end when Bruce says to him that's

enough and He says no, it's never enough one

rule. I win and And that was to me. That's Dick's

way of letting Bruce know I'm gonna do this for

you And and I'm gonna make sure that I win and

then nothing to me was better than Alfred coming

down at the end of that whole thing Say dear

Lord You know the other greatest thing about

this is back a few pages I don't know if you

see it, but I see it that I Assume it's a bad

boat because it look it's in the water. Mm -hmm.

It looks like Dark wing ducks playing. Oh, yeah

I love the whole thing to where he says Where

Bruce says we fall be you know to get back to

learn to get back up and dick says no That's

not true. We fall because someone pushes us we

get back up to push back Right. That's absolutely.

Yeah, so then we get into Tokyo Japan and This

is where the third artist comes in this third

artist is actually the artist on the Grayson

series Or at least for the first issue of the

Grayson series I don't know if he continues into

issue two and three But this is the artist for

the Grayson series of issue one, and I actually

really like the art on this But we see that there's

some weird artists type guy in the subway in

Tokyo who's got music playing and He looks like

a singing mime, even though mimes are not supposed

to talk. He reminds me of the mime from Animaniacs,

honestly, except there's no black on his costume.

And it looks like he's about to blow up some

guys down there in the subway, but Dick stops

him by throwing his Escrima stick at his head.

And I love how it bounces off and comes back

to Dick after that. And then we see him on a

pirate... Ship in the pirate airship almost Taking

on some other guys Then we see them in I'm on

Jordan and there's like a guy there a sniper

and all these guys had all these guys he's taking

out have Kane written on their on their finger

so C is on one finger a I and They all have that

insignia on their on their hands but Dick takes

out this sniper guy in Jordan and I do have to

say for you continue I the Since after the fight

when he I forget where it is. I'm trying to see

here where it first starts I think it first starts

with the Tokyo arc. Yeah, it starts at the Tokyo

arc. Who am I? I've been a lot of things. I was

a son look this entire monologue Even though

I know Kyle didn't write it. It feels like Kyle

wrote it feels like Yeah, so I do really like

that. Yeah, and then we get um Dick Grayson in

Uganda and he's on top of a car and he's stopping

he pulls the guy out of the car that's racing

around and find out there's an explosive in the

car and he jumps out just as it's going over

the edge of a cliff and he catches this swinging

rope ladder that a helicopter happened to be

coming by and here the helicopter pilot is this

African -American woman who's wearing a huntress

looking shirt And we actually will find out later

that this is the new introduction of the true

Helena Bertonelli, because I don't know if you

read the New 52 Huntress, but she... used the

name Helena Bertinelli, but that's not who she

really was. Because she came to our world from

Earth -2, and she adopted that name to disguise

herself in the series World's Finest, but then

she had to get rid of that identity. So this

is the true Helena Bertinelli, and that's why

she's wearing the Huntress. shirt is to give

a little nod to that. That, hey, there's a reason

this character kind of looks like she's Huntress,

and it's because she kind of is, but for our

world and not Earth -2 world. But she's obviously

working for Spiral. She hands Dick Grayson a

card that has the web with the eye in the middle

of it. And she's like, Spiral has a mission for

you. And then that is what's going to lead into

Grayson number one. Yeah, that's gonna lead into

grace number one and I just have to really quick

before we do final thoughts on this take another

quick break and then we'll come back with the

organ and talk about the closing but where it

starts As the car goes off the cliff who am I

after all that I wanted to go back I wanted to

be with who I I wanted to be who I'd been a son

part of a family a legacy Robin Nightwing Batman

I wanted to go back but I can't something terrible

is coming. And I have to stop it. My enemy is

in front of me and I'm alone. Who am I? My name

is Dick Grayson and I'm who you need to, who

you need me to be. And this goes back to what

you were saying earlier about he is a character

who will change and adapt. Oh God, he's like

Triple H from WWE, adapter perished, Christ evolution

reference. But yeah that and that's to me that's

who the character always has been he will and

again That's why I don't necessarily feel like

Grayson is going. I mean, yes It's an ongoing

series, but I don't feel like that's who Dick

Grayson will be forever He might come back to

the Nightwing persona. He might not but he will

always adapt to what is needed from him Overall,

what did you think of this one really quick and

then we'll yeah, I love this issue because I've

always wanted to see that fight Between Bruce

and Dick and this gave a good reason why it happened

beginning of the issue did throw me off I like

I loved how it closed So I think it's just that

that beginning section that that bothered me

the whole rest of the issue. I absolutely loved

it Yeah, I do agree that that beginning really

Has other than Leslie Tompkins has zero to do

with the bad family other than sitting up spiral,

right? So, as I said, we're gonna take another

quick break, we're gonna come back with final

thoughts and ratings on the three issues, and

we're also going to go through the first three

solicitations for Grayson. So we'll be back after

this. Whose is it? I don't believe it. I think

this is yours, Connor. Oh, thanks. But you almost

gave me a heart attack. I thought you were the

Batman. No. I ran up against him once. It was

a real eye -opener. Forced me to get my life

together. Now I've got this great job. Even Mr.

Wayne knows me. Terrific guy. Never too busy

to stop and ask how my boy's doing. Mr. Wayne

is a good man. Guess Batman had a change of heart.

Who'd have thought he had one? Speak of the devil.

You coming? I guess it's about time. Alright

folks, we are back. and we're gonna rank the

final three issues of the Nightwing ongoing from

DC's The New 52. 28, it was a nice setup, it

was interesting to see where he was gonna go

with this story. I'm gonna give it a four out

of five. I liked it, I thought it was interesting,

but it didn't wrench my heart out. What about

you on 28? I would give 28 like a 3 .5. It's

a 3 I would normally give for like your just

standard issue. I'm glad I read it, but it's

nothing wowed me about it. So a 3 .5 because

it's a little bit better than that. Like I said,

there was some predictability in certain places,

but I really love the moments with Sonya and

the moment with Jen and everything near the end.

So yeah, I'd give it a 3 .5. Issue 29 the only

thing now that you pointed it out the only thing

that is preventing me from giving this a perfect

is The little hiccup with Jen finding mr. Zazz.

Yeah I am gonna give it a four and a half out

of five, which is almost perfect. But likes like

People if I cry three times reading a comic book

at three different points of reading the damn

comic book Well, whether it's three months ago

six months ago or now It's pretty close to perfect

because every single thing, every piece of dialogue,

whether it's the internal monologue story to

Jen, whether it's spoken dialogue, everything

Kyle wrote in this issue as his final issue was

absolutely brilliant. But there is that one nagging

plot hole. Yeah. And I give it the same rating

for the exact same reason. I think this is damn

near perfect. It's just that plot hole and and

I read it twice hoping that maybe the second

time I read it that that was explained somehow

and I just missed it but But it wasn't explained

So yeah, that's that's the only hiccup in it

But other than that it like you said it was pretty

much a perfect conclusion to the series. So yeah

and number 30 I I'm actually gonna read this

rating for you people and I will include the

ratings link for our rating system in the post

here But I'm gonna have to read this and so people

understand why I'm giving it this rating number

30 I have to give it three out of five stars

three out of five stars is not bad But the title

that we have for that one says barely passing

Uh, barely passing. While the overall takeaway

was positive, you do not necessarily walk away

happy. It does not extraordinarily succeed in

any specific areas. If it does, it gets weighed

down by something as equally unsuccessful. The

overall enjoyable is easily disposable. What

I, the reason why I give it three out of five

is the whole beginning part. I was expecting

something. Else I was expecting even even after

because I did read forever evil number seven

before reading number 30 obviously you kind of

have to. But I was expecting something more than

that setup for spiral I was ex. I was kind of

almost expecting a Court of Owls for Spiral,

that they were like this hidden organization

in Gotham City or in Chicago. I would have loved

to have seen the Chicago cast one more time,

honestly. Yeah. And I would give, I would actually

give 30 a four. The only hiccup I had was the

beginning, which we talked about. I still liked

parts of that, but it still threw me off a bit.

I love the drag out fight. uh, and then the ending

with with spiral I actually loved also it got

me actually excited for grace and the grace series

because Like you were saying like you're hoping

that maybe spiral was like this underground thing

and I feel like they are but on a more global

scale right and that's got me very intrigued

because Again, I've heard interviews with Tom

King and he says what they're going for is they're

going for Dick Grayson to be a global character.

They want him to be traveling the world and everything

else. So I kind of like that he's going to be

this guy, almost like a James Bond international

man of mystery type of thing, trying to take

down this secret organization that's out there.

And the thing with me, with Grayson, when was

first announced? I'm like, okay, just throw an

eye patch on him. He's Nick Fury of the DC Universe.

Like, seriously. No, and I thought the same thing.

I'll be truthful with you. And the only thing

that's really... Not that I have any... um qualms

about liking certain girly stuff i do like gem

after all the only thing that really takes me

out of this is a huge nitpick on my part the

fact that the cover for the first issue is pink

on the background i get what they're trying to

do with it but it's just so weird i am going

to read the solicits for the first three grayson

issues now the reason why i say three issues

is because i'm also going to be reading the grayson

uh... september futures and number one uh...

solicit uh... grayson number one it's on sale

july second uh... prices two ninety nine dick

grayson former sidekick former superhero former

dead man and now agent of spiral a thrilling

new chapter of dick grayson's life begins in

this new ongoing series it is a super spy thriller

that would shock you and prove one thing might

think you know nightwing but you don't know dick

whoever wrote this brilliant i really honestly

think they got kevin smith to write that seriously

every time i hear a dick and fart joke i always

think kevin smith is behind it even if he isn't

grace and number two On sale August 6th, price

is $2 .99. Grayson digs deeper into the mysterious

organization known as Spiral and learns more

about his new partner, Helena Bertinelli. Now,

on DC's website says the first two issues are

written by Tim Seely, not Tom King. And what

they actually do is that they are co -plotting

and then they are alternating who the actual

writer is. Okay, so you will probably see when

you get the actual issue that inside it will

say co -plotted by Tim Seely and Tom King But

this and then it'll say scripting by Tim Seely

and then when you get to issue three It'll probably

say the same thing but then it'll say scripting

by Tom King because I know Tom King does the

third issue I wasn't able well, I guess I could

look for it I don't know do they have those they

know I haven't heard anything as far as what

it's about I'll see normally when I do a Google

search for like when I did Google search for

Grayson number one and two Immediately the first

thing that popped up was the DC Comics website.

Yeah, and they didn't with this. Yeah Alright,

so this September DC is celebrating the new 52

anniversary with the futures and event because

After all everything has to end in the future

and Grayson futures and number one Branded a

traitor, Dick Grayson has become the most powerful

hero in the newly resurgent and dominant Mother

Russia? And now he must battle the beast from

the east in one final struggle for supremacy.

Yay. Which is basically, well it's basically

a take on a character of the, there's a long

time Batman character called the KG Beast. It's

not the KG Beast from what Tom King was saying,

but there's a reason that that wording was used.

And he said basically for that issue three as

much like the other futures and stories Because

they are they do take place in the future. It's

What he was able to do was what? What he always

would want to do as far as an else world story

for Dick Grayson So so this is a nice set fuse.

No It's a possible future and the futures and

weekly series plays into that Yeah, I'm out on

that I'm all in baby So out on futures and I

just don't know anymore I I Was I've read the

first three because I don't think number four

is out yet Or if it is I haven't had a chance

to pick it up yet as it was okay I haven't I

haven't had a chance to pick it up yet The first

three set up so many different things. The only

thing I was really interested in is to see how

they bring Terry into the new 52. That was my

really only interest in the futures end ongoing.

I'm enjoying it because it reminds me very much

of the 52 series that they did where each issue,

because it is weekly, you can get away with doing

very short plot points all the way along because

you only have to wait a week for the next one.

That's what they did in the original 52 series

weekly series that they did where it was basically

here's a short Story of each character and those

stories will continue next week and the week

after and everything else So I really like that

format and I like what they're doing with it.

See, I don't mind that with Batman eternal I'm

loving Batman. I mean futures Futures and just

didn't It's not enough. It's too much firestorm.

Not enough Terry McGinnis. That's really what

it is. It's Think you'll get more Terry as it

goes on It's just they will highlight certain

characters in certain issues because of certain

creators that are writing that character Were

predominant for that particular issue and that's

why that happens a lot of times You will get

later issues. I'm sure that will focus more on

Terry McGinnis and Batman Beyond and everything

else I I will say the Firestorm character is

the one storyline that I am not enjoying because

I feel like they're getting the character completely

wrong. But all the other stories I'm really enjoying.

So I am fine with having one, you know, one character

that's a few pages each issue that I'm not enjoying

as much. So, I mean, I like the whole Mr. Terrific

angle. I think that's awesome. Because the only

thing I've really known him from was Justice

League and he was still kind of a side character

in that. And I'm going to bet that this is not

the Mr. Terrific from our universe because he's

acting kind of cocky and dickish and that's not

Mr. Terrific. Oh great, so that's one thing I'm

not too thrilled about with DC. They have so

many damn different earths. It's like Well, yeah

Marvel has six one six and then the Ultimates

but oh they've got a lot more than that No, I'm

sure but in fact they've got more than DC does.

Oh wow, that's scary. Yeah, but the thing I will

tell you that I think is gonna happen is I think

that Batman Eternal, Futures End, and then the

new one which is Earth 2 World's End. I don't

know if you are aware of this, but all three

of those titles are supposed to end on the same

month. Yeah, it's a year -long series, all three

of them. Well, only Eternal. Only Batman Eternal

is a year -long series. The other two are gonna

end the exact same time Batman Eternal ends,

which makes me think that they all three will

tie into each other somehow. And next year when

they are supposed to end will be the 30th anniversary

of Crisis on Infinite Earths. So I think all

of that plays into it. with them not allowing

kyle i mean i don't cause moved on to i wouldn't

say bigger and better things but kyle higgins

is he's still doing batman beyond two point oh

which i have actually loving so at least i can

you know get my grace and fix their uh... you

know i know at some point i don't know when but

at some point he's going to be a part of the

bad eternal team uh... i don't know which issue

because we're already up to issue nine and ten

and so far it's still the original writing team,

Scott Snyder, John Layman, and all those guys.

I know he's moving on, but I'm so mad at DC Editorial

for not allowing him to do what he wanted to

do with number one, Amusement Mile, and number

two, continuing on in Chicago. Yeah. And I'll

say, I would have liked to have seen what they

would have done with all of that, or what he

would have done with all of that. I certainly

would have been on board for all of it, but I

also can't look at what... could have been because

I'm not going to get that. So again, it goes

into my adaptability. I'm like, OK, well, this

is the series I'm going to get. Let me see what

they do with it. And let me see what direction

is it something I want to read. And when I read

kind of where they were going with it and I heard

interviews and everything else, I was like, all

right, this sounds like this could be interesting.

And with it being my third favorite DC character,

I'm like, I'm not going to jump ship. I will

certainly give. I will certainly give them enough

rope to hang themselves with. I'm giving it probably

six issues. That's more than most people. Well,

I'm only giving Futures End four issues. If by

the fourth issue, if it doesn't thrill me, that's

getting cut off my list. All right, so that's

going to do it here for us in the pull bag after

dark. Next week, we've got... The Pull Bags back

issue classics where Joe Reed and I talk about

the secret history of the Foot Clan and the long

-awaited delayed at this point Transformers Windblade

number two crossover episode with the Underbase

which probably should have been out a month ago

but we were too busy in Gotham City. Where can

the people interact with you online if they would

like to? They can find us at starjoes .com uh...

and uh... that's where you can download our episodes

we're also on itunes and we're on facebook so

you can just look up star joe's death j -o -e

-s uh... and you can find us on facebook and

like us on there all right make your greatest

game in the comics and we will catch you next

time now i love s'mores as much as the next guy

but i'm fresh out of marshmallows What do you

say we call it a night? You've just heard the

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