Superman: The Animated Series Season 1 Review

This is Kevin Conroy, and I am the goddamn Batman.

Hello and welcome to episode 78 of Tooncast Beyond,

brought to you by the Geekcast Radio Network.

I am one of your hosts, T .O. and Mike, and joining

me today is Dane Lamont from Punisher Body Count.

Hello, sir. Hey, Mike. Glad to be here. So, has

Superman ever faced the Punisher? Uh, that's

a good question. No, but one time, uh, he merged

with Wonder Woman in that weird Amalgam universe,

so that was cool. That's a little creepy. Yeah.

Yeah, that's a little creepy. I mean, we all

know Superman can be taken down by Kryptonite,

and Batman does that all the time, but that would

be an interesting fight to see. Superman versus

the Punisher. Yeah, though he did take on that

not -Superman guy. What was his name? He was

blonde. Dolph Lundgren? No, no, no. I'm talking

about in Marvel Universe. And he was a big deal

for like ten minutes. part of the Dark Avengers

and stuff. God, I fear his name. But it's essentially

one of those Marvel versions of not Superman.

Aha. So today, folks, we're going to go back

21 years and talk about Superman the Animated

Series Season 1. And we're going to get to Mr.

Just the Facts, and we'll be back after this.

After creating the seminal Batman the Animated

Series in 1992, the team of Alan Burnett... Bruce

Timm, and Paul Dini turned their creative talents

towards bringing the other big name in comic

book superherodom to the small screen. Who was

the superhero they chose? It was none other than

the Big Blue Boy Scout, the Metropolis Marvel,

the Man of Steel, Superman. Debuting on September

6, 1996 in prime time on the WB in The Last Son

of Krypton 3 -parter, we are first introduced

to scientist Jor -El, Superman's father, as he

discovers a growing instability in the core of

the planet Krypton. Jor -El tries to get the

Planetary Council to evacuate, but his pleas

fall on deaf ears thanks to the computer intelligence

Brainiac, who counsels there is nothing to worry

about. Jor -El then breaks into the computer

core of Brainiac and discovers that he was right

and that Brainiac is uploading himself to an

orbiting satellite in order to save his programming

rather than saving the native populace of Krypton.

Jor -El desperately races home, electing to save

his son Kal -El by launching him into space towards

the planet Earth just barely before the planet

explodes. Landing in a Kansas cornfield, baby

Kal -El is discovered by farmer Jonathan Kent

and his wife Martha. They adopt and raise the

boy, who they name Clark, as best they can, instilling

in him the core values of honesty and hard work.

Eventually, Clark goes off into the world, becoming

a news reporter for a major newspaper, The Daily

Planet, in the great city of Metropolis, New

York. Alongside hard -nosed reporter Lois Lane

and photographer Jimmy Olsen, one of Clark's

first assignments is to cover the demonstration

of a new exosuit by Tech Bill Lex Luthor. The

suit is stolen by mercenary John Corbin and during

the theft the mercenaries team shoot down an

airplane passing overhead forcing Clark to reveal

his presence as Superman and saving the day.

Lois and Clark soon discover Corbin was working

for Luthor, who was seeking to profit from the

theft in the first place. After defeating Corbin

and his men, Superman confronts Luthor, who coolly

claims he is untouchable. Defying the villain's

entreaties, Superman warns him that he'll be

watching before flying off into the night. But

all is not well, as in deep space, a group of

inquisitive aliens find the Brainiac satellite,

hinting at the danger yet to come. Over the course

of this first 13 -episode season, we the viewers

would be introduced to Superman and his story

in some refreshing and exciting new ways. Tim

and Dini worked their particular magic on this

series, not unlike the way they crafted together

the Batman animated series. They blended design

elements and character concepts from all over

Superman's history. The oddball sci -fi of the

Silver Age of comics, the look of both Krypton

and Luthor from John created Fourth World concept

were all sampled in the creation of this series.

Classic Superman villains such as Toyman and

Parasite, Metallo and Brainiac would all be updated

for this modern age. Lex Luthor would go on to

become the most redesigned of all the villains,

with the creative team blending his classic mad

scientist brilliance with John Byrne's sinister

capitalist billionaire. Superman's supporting

cast was also similarly updated. Characters such

as Emile Hamilton, Maggie Sawyer, and the lovably

dim Bibbo Bobowski were borrowed from the then

-ongoing DC Comics Superman titles in a reverse

sort of way that fan -favorite Harley Quinn was

brought from Batman the Animated Series to the

proper comics. Superman the Animated Series would

become the second series in the growing DC Animated

Universe, which would go on to include series

such as Batman Beyond, Static Shock, Justice

League, and Justice League Unlimited. And just

like Batman, the voice cast was also superb,

being overseen by legendary voice director Andrea

Romano. The Man of Steel was voiced by Tim Daly,

who we know from the sitcom Wings on NBC. Dana

Delaney would voice Lois Lane in arguably one

of her most loved incarnations. And the man himself,

Clancy Brown, voiced Lex Luthor in a performance

that has become as synonymous with the character

as Mark Hamill has with the Clown Prince of Crime.

The voice cast of the first season also included

the legendary Corey Burton as Brainiac, Sir Malcolm

McDowell as Metallo, and Brad Garrett from Everybody

Loves Raymond as the main man himself, Lobo the

Bounty Hunter, in a fan -favorite two -part episode.

Aside from Batman the Animated Series, which

we all know is the single best animated superhero

cartoon of all time, Superman the Animated Series

is one of my all -time favorites. Superman has

always been a character I gravitated towards

both as a kid and as an adult. There's just something

about a guy sailing out of the blue to save the

day with a wink and a smile before he flies away

again to do battle with some psychotic toy collector

or some alien iPod gone wrong. The show was bright

and colorful in all the ways the Dark Knight's

adventures were dark and dangerous. This show

still stands up in my honest opinion, and it

is a must -see for any Superman fan. This has

been Just the Facts for Superman The Animated

Series Season 1. I'm JT from Saskatoon. Back

to you, Mike. Thank you so much, Mr. Just the

Facts. Dane, what is your history with the show?

Did you watch this back in the 90s? I watched

just about anything on the Kids WB channel when

I was younger. There were certain shows I definitely

tuned out of, especially as soon as they said,

OK, it's time to teach you something educational

as per government regulations. That's when I

tuned out. But pretty much anything on there.

Like, I love Pokemon. I love the Batman and Superman

shows. I even liked it when they combined into

that one hour show. You know what I mean? The

new Batman Superman adventures. Yep. Yeah, I

enjoyed the whole. kids wb universe even the

zeta project because i thought it was kind of

the weakest out of that whole continuity but

i it was still fine and that's actually kind

of what i will be my opinion on superman during

this whole thing especially this first season

it's fine it's okay yeah zeta project was a really

really bad spin -off idea oh my god yeah i don't

know i want to see how that uh i mean yeah yeah

it did have that batman beyond connection but

i have no idea how that kind of show got off

the ground it's like okay imagine this it's a

really cool robot with tons of gadgets but he

doesn't want to hurt anyone and he's constantly

running away like it's a fugitive story just

jesus except he has both his arms so he can't

be a one -armed bandit Exactly. Oh, Lord. But

yes, we are here to talk about the DC Animated

Universe Bruce Timverse Superman the Animated

Series. When was the last time you actually saw

this series? That's a really good question. Because

with Batman the Animated Series, I'll come back

to a few of those episodes at least once a year.

I feel like those shows have a really good...

evergreen replayability. There's plenty of those

shows that I can watch and enjoy, even if I've

seen them so many times. With Superman, I remember

I watched the whole series when it was on Kids

WB, and then I watched the second half of the

series sometime in college because we had one

of those torrent networks that everyone just

shared everything with. I remember just realizing,

wow, that Darkseid saga was pretty hardcore.

And then the last time I watched it was when

I got a message on Facebook from Mike going,

do you want to talk about Superman? I'm like,

shit, I better watch that first season again.

So two days ago. There you go. Yeah, I mean,

for me, I've watched it off and on over the years.

Like you said, I pretty much seek out. different

episodes of the series. Uh, this is my first

like full season watch through and probably,

I don't know, five or six years at this point.

Um, but yeah, um, yeah, it's one of those things

where, uh, I, it's funny because even though

I haven't seen it a lot, like I haven't gone

back to it a lot, I remember almost everything

from this first season um really yeah pretty

much i mean the only thing i was surprised at

was um how it kind of ended with the 13th episode

oh i'm i'm so glad you brought that up man i

feel like they had they must have screwed up

that order they must have yeah they for people

that don't know they ended it on uh the season

on this guy named parasite who god is one of

the worst characters in this whole show i mean

i'll talk about that in a sec but it's literally

like the second appearance of this terrible villain

in a 13 episode run of the first season meanwhile

the episode right before it actually shows this

uh This mob boss, Mannheim, who runs Intergain,

literally goes to Apocalypse and meets Darkseid

for the first time. It's like, holy shit, they're

going this deep in the new God's lore. And it's

like, oh, now here's the guy that set up a bomb

on Metropolis. Like, they went from there to

bomb threat. It was a real, real weird sense

of pacing. When everything else, pacing -wise,

was pretty good. Absolutely, yeah. It's one of

those things for me where it's like... Why? These

two should be reversed of each other. You know,

Tools of the Trade should be the season finale

and Two as a Crowd should be the penultimate,

which really isn't even a penultimate because,

like you said, it's just almost a one -off episode

with Parasite and somebody else, Earl Garver,

who wants to try to take over Parasite's body

and yadda yadda yadda. It almost reminds me of

the... the justice league two -parter only a

dream where it's this this no -name criminal

guy john d or whatever it is and he gets a hold

of this machine and he turns into dr destiny

and everything else and yeah you know he's trying

to attack everybody in there he's basically freddy

krueger for the dc animated universe and it's

like no don't do that and you know Those episodes

that you're talking about, and I think this applies

to Superman a lot well, is if you have a nobody

villain with no real pathos or no real emotional

arc, then, boy, the gimmick better be cool. And

at least Dr. Destiny seemed like a pretty...

There were some nice visuals. They really tried

in the animation. It was a very good, even had

some surreal imagery. That was pretty neat. But

yeah, you just don't have that with these two

episodes in Superman. And that's a good chunk

of that season, unfortunately. Yeah, it really,

really is. Had you ever been, how much of a Superman

fan were you? just a fan in general of this show

going into the prep work for the record today.

Oh, before going into the show as the longer

I've been into comics, the more I've made my

piece and started unironically enjoying Superman.

I feel like there's a big, like, especially if

you're just getting into comics, you want to

show that you're not, um, the Simpsons comic

book guy and that you are not a lame person.

You like the cool comics like spawn. And the

Punisher, at least that's how I was when I first

got into comics. I thought Superman is dumb and

overpowered and there's not anything exciting

to him. And then when I just started to take

a chill pill and actually read Superman comics,

especially the ones that are, you know, that

have stood the test of time and been held in

high regard, I'm like, oh, wow. This is such

an important character for superhero comics.

It's almost like the sun in which everything

else rotates around. It's everything superhero

comics can be. And sometimes that can be a bit

bland, but I'm glad Superman's there. Just like

how Jonah Hex is kind of the archetype for the

mean. uh western anti -hero i'm kind of glad

superman's there and i'm enjoying the superman

comics right now with uh superman basically being

a family guy with lois and he's got his son and

they're and just the adventures of superman being

a dad and a husband and lois is in on it and

he's slowly training his son to be the new super

boy they're just really fun comics now So basically

what you're saying is because you like this,

you were also a fan of Lois and Clark, the new

adventures of Superman from 1993. Oh my God.

I have a lot of memories of that show. I used

to watch that show with my grandparents. That

was such a weird show. It was such a cool show.

Oh, I loved it. It was shockingly like. And anytime

they brought in superhero stuff in the early

90s or whatever, it wasn't a cartoon. Boy, it

was kind of a shit show. But that was actually

like they brought in Metallo. They brought in

like a lot of Superman stuff when all they really

cared about was will these two people have sex?

Well, like how most 90s sitcoms were like back

in the day. Yeah. Still are today to some level.

Yeah, the greatest cameo, I think, in that one

was probably George Jefferson as Toy Man. As

Winslow's shot. Oh, God, that was so funny. So,

yeah, Superman the Animated Series. Going through

these first 13... I don't have a lot of negatives

at all. I think the only negative, and the creators,

the producers, and all those people have already

agreed. Because I've seen all the special features

from the DVDs and things like that. They've already

said they powered him down to a point where by

the end of this first season, he could be taken

out with one punch. Because there were a couple

of times in, I think, episodes 9, 10, and 11

where... a robot hit Superman, and he was down

for the count for a couple of minutes. You know,

this is one of those things I used to have a

problem with. Like, oh, Superman, like, why didn't...

Like, there's a lot of these episodes that if

you turn into, like, the push -up your glasses,

and actually, that wouldn't happen, because Superman

could hear that coming with his super hearing,

and his super speed, he could actually just read

the entire library and figure out the crime.

But, like... There's a good quote from Alfred

Hitchcock that I just heard about a week ago.

And essentially some reporter was asking him,

like, how come the main character never calls

the police or the police never help the main

character when he or she is being stalked by

some crazy person? And Alfred Hitchcock leaned

back and he just said, because that's fucking

boring. That's super boring. Just, oh, I called

the cops and the stalker got caught. Cool. This

movie is going to end 40 minutes early, I guess.

And part of fiction is not only suspending your

disbelief, but also making sure that you have

a story like. Superman kind of matches that post

-crisis, like you said, power downstage that

they did when they kind of rebooted the DC Universe

back when that was a new and neat idea. And so

they match that in the TV show. But I never –

the animated show. I never felt like Superman

was like a pushover. But, yeah, there are scenes

where like a freaking – Tiny, tiny Gundam is

beating the crap out of Superman. And you know

what? That's okay. They need to fill up 22 minutes.

But Superman still is super fast. He is super

chill because he knows very few things on this

earth can even hurt him. But there's plenty of

scenes that I've learned just to let go. Like,

you remember that last episode, the parasite

one? Yep. There was always a scene. There's a

scene where Superman's going to bend down and

grab the bomb. Then Parasite comes out of the

ground. He literally just buried himself six

inches in the ground and grabbed Superman's wrists.

And all I could think of for one second before

I told myself to shut up was, hey, couldn't he

hear Parasite's heartbeat or breathing or anything

like that? Like, you have to let that stuff go.

Otherwise, you're not going to have an entertaining

show. And it's so funny you mention that because

there is one episode in this season where one

of the villains says, oh, this entire complex

is lined with lead. Superman's not going to be

able to use his x -ray vision. Two seconds later,

he bursts in. I might not have been able to see

you, but my hearing is fine. Yes, exactly. This

is actually one of the things I really like about

the first season. It's not amazing, but I like

how the first season is mostly an escalation

of the world adjusting to Superman because he's

not just fighting aliens. They don't even talk

about aliens for five or six episodes or anything

crazy. There's no magic or anything. kryptonite

comes in around episode four or five and even

then it's considered this rare thing but really

the first half and even into the second half

a lot of these things are superman stomping heists

and people just trying to figure out how do we

deal with this uh maybe if we fire really big

bullets that will work or something it was actually

a very clever way to set up a season things actually

were built up over time not just people understanding

what superman's about how to react to them because

eventually villains are like okay, let's drop

a building on some people. So Superman has to

go deal with that. We can get away. Like they

eventually figured that stuff out and he builds

up his fortress of solitude over time. Yeah.

It's very well paced for a kid show. That's supposed

to be shown in an episodic format, but things

carry over. There's a real continuity here. Yeah,

absolutely. Um, for me, they, okay. So like I

said, this debuted 1996, 21 years ago. If you

go back to 1990, I'm currently, sadly, at a point

in our He -Man She -Ra podcast going through

the new adventures of He -Man. Those are 22,

without ads, they're 22 -minute episodes, just

like these are. Those seem like they take for,

one episode of that seems like it's going on

for six hours. It is so bad. These, I was done

with these, I was done with the first eight in

probably a day and a half. Yeah, I was similar.

They're very easy watches. Very, very easy watches

because the writing is so well done. The character

development, the stories, just all of it. is

just so, so well done. Do you have a favorite

episode or a favorite set of episodes from season

one? My all -time favorite episode of this season.

I actually really liked the first three -part

pilot, I guess. Last Son of Krypton. Yeah. Looking

at that, I go, wow, this series is more adult

than I thought it was. And I don't just mean

violence, even though there is some... Strong

level of violence. Literally genocides going

on in a couple of these episodes. But I really

love the seventh episode, The Way of All Flesh,

with Metallo, John. That one, I felt... See,

here's the problem with these Superman episodes.

If the gimmick is kind of boring, then the episode

kind of fails. Because with Batman, you at least

have... There's not a lot of internal struggle

going on with Superman. I mean, at some point

they get around to it in the second and third

seasons, but mostly Superman is just a guy that

gets in the way of what's going on, and Superman

has to react to it. Batman, there's an investigative

level. He can have a close friendship level.

Kirkland, I just realized, just doesn't have

that many friends. He doesn't have much of a

society life in any of this. It's kind of sad.

That also limits. I mean, he's a reporter. He

gets along with his co -workers and stuff. He

hangs out with Jimmy. But there's not like once

again, there's not a lot for Clark Kent to do

if he's not doing reportering or saying hi to

his mom. Yeah. So if so, you can't put a lot

of stuff on Superman for an episode. And the

Superman's villains are like two steps up from

Wonder Woman's atrocious villains gallery. Superman,

every time there's a new Superman writer. I promise

you that there will be at least one or two villains

that that writer is going to fix who's going

to turn into a real threat or try and fix some

weird continuity. They're so interchangeable,

and they're just thugs. They're worse than Spider

-Man villains. I mean, yeah, the only two. Yeah.

Okay, three. Three big ones. essentially superman's

big three are lex brainiac and dark side the

rest are kind of three stooges like and sometimes

they make that work and sometimes they don't

one of the reasons i really liked um the way

of all flesh is because they have this you know

this slick basically the evil version of james

bond What was his name? Was it John Connor? It's

John Corbin. Corbin. Thank you. It can't be Connor.

It's Terminator. But anyway, this John Corbin

guy, which was a guy that was in previous episodes

as a saboteur and like mercenary kind of figure.

And then he's in jail and he learns he has a

virus going on, even though he's living the high

life in jail, he's going to die. So some scientist

gives him an offer to. OK, I can't. I'll get

the virus out of you. And Luther is going to

help you out. Turns him into this horrible robot

man with a heart of kryptonite. And he's super

strong. And guess what? He still gets to keep

his skin and everything. And it's awesome. He

is now on Superman's level. But one of the things

that I really enjoyed about this is they actually

went into that. almost Twilight Zone level of

a terrible price to pay. He can't feel, he can't

smell, he can't taste anything. And they even,

they can't say it. But anytime he looks at a

woman, he goes like, I can't, I can't. And then

he throws a car. He's just saying like, I can't

even have sex anymore. Like, I don't have. I

don't have testicles. I like, and whether you

like it or not, like our dicks, like drive a

lot of our actions in our lives. And this guy

doesn't have that anymore. And Luther says, Hey,

you know, you'll adjust to it and you are immortal.

And to me, I just went, Oh my God, that's right.

This guy's immoral. He's going to be like this

forever. He's going to, he's, he's basically

a vampire, but even vampires get to keep their

dicks. This is terrible. And just the way that

the, the voice actor reacts to this. And the

the way they they take their time with this guy

to show the nightmare of his situation. It was

like a like Clayface in Batman. It was on that

level. Just realizing, like, oh, my God. I've

lost my humanity because a lot of these other

Superman villains, they're like, Oh my God, I've

turned into a freak. Cool. I guess I'm just going

to rob a bank or kill my boss. It's just that

it's almost no reflection, but that episode was

done so well, but I'm, I'm talking too much about

this. What was your favorite? Um, I love the

opening three parter, uh, the last son of Krypton.

What I love about this is we get to see Krypton.

Because normally it's like, okay, you go back

to 1978, you go back to Superman the movie. That

opening Krypton scene might have been, hmm, maybe

the first five minutes, if that, that's being

generous of the film. And then, you know, you

have them sending him off and the rest of that

opening sequence is him growing and learning

in the little space rocket thing and whatever

else. This... basically shows you, hey, look,

this giant dumbass supercomputer is going to

kill us all, and he's going to save himself,

and no one's listening to Kal's dad, Jor -El,

at all, and the planet ends up exploding, but

we actually get to see a lot of Krypton beforehand,

and then as Part 2 and Part 3 come in... We see

Cal's journey to Earth, and we see Part 3 is

great. Last Son of Krypton Part 3 is so good,

because you have the first meeting of Lex and

Superman, and just how annoyed Lex will get at

Superman at that end scene, where he's like,

Superman, come on in, take a load off, and he's

just... floating there in midair just staring

at him. Well, aren't you going to say anything?

No, we're not saying anything. I like that one.

I do really enjoy Stolen Memories because, again,

it's continuing the Brainiac part of the story.

And then the main man parts one and two. God,

Superman and Lobo. That is just so hilarious.

I was kind of surprised that this was in season

one. I thought this came in later seasons, but

that's where I just felt they just said, okay,

instead of setting stuff up, let's take a two

-episode break and just have fun and have someone

Superman can punch for a while. And that was

an incredibly entertaining episode. And it's

very funny to see how they get around standards

and practices with certain things with Lobo.

Yeah. Because it's almost like, okay, I can't

shoot any of these guys in the bar, but I am

going to shoot at a shelf with a bunch of barrels,

and it's going to land on these guys. And it's

like, oh, geez. Like, that's a very much like

a... Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles solution to

something. And then he walks away from the bar

and he drives off. He just blows up the bar anyway.

It's almost like Bruce. You could see the frustration

of Bruce Timm going, no, forget it. Like the

people are going to die one way or another in

this scene. So be it. That was the most fun episode

I felt. Was those two episodes. Which once again

surprised me. There's two of these. Why? But

it works though. To me it's a back and forth.

We have the introduction of Lobo. And he eventually

gets to Earth. And we have him and Superman fighting.

And whatever else. you know, as it kind of ends,

you know, part two is more so how are they going

to get away from the preserver? In, I believe

it's part one when, yeah, it is part one, when

Lobo, he and his bike there get red lasers zapped

into the preserver's ship. I posted a screencap

of this on. On Facebook, and I am friends with

the director, Dan Reba, on there. And I said,

hey, you know, 21 years later, because Dan Reba

directed, Paul Dini wrote it. So I tagged them

both, and I'm like, any thoughts on this gentleman?

Dan replies, this show was a blast to work on.

The alien cantina sequence had the craziest alien

ideas we could think of. The designers got in

a room and just started sketching, competing

for the strangest design. He says, I don't remember

if James Tucker or Glenn Murakami came up with

the alien. with the talking eyeball, but that

one made us laugh, so it went in. Tom Nelson

left in the middle of the show for a feature

gig, and Dan had to board a chunk himself. He

did the space stuff with Superman in the spacesuit

until the end of the show, and his Superman punch

ended up in the titles. That's really cool. This

is what I'm saying. I felt like this episode,

just because of all the different designs of

the animals and the space creatures in general,

I feel like they had the most fun with these

two episodes. Instead of drawing more guys with

jetpacks or whatever. Yep, absolutely. And like

I said, Tools of the Trade, episode 12, which

in our personal opinion should have been episode

13, but I like that because you have the looming

threat of Darkseid without ever really needing

to show him right away. Kind of a cliffhanger

-y thing. It's so hard going through favorite

characters for this by season because I do like

a lot of them. Obviously Clark Kent Superman.

I love Lois in this series. Mainly because of

Dana Delaney's voice acting. Yeah. Jimmy's cool.

Jimmy... He's Jimmy. In this season, he's not

so pally with Superman because he's just kind

of a background character here. Lex is great.

Clancy Brown as Lex Luthor. Honestly, outside

of Gene Hackman in the live -action film, there

is no other voice for Lex in my mind other than

maybe John Shea from Lois and Clark. I'm just

glad they included Bibbo. That's such a classic

Superman. This is what Bruce Timm and his crew

are so good at doing. They're so good at getting

the characters from decades -long continuity,

almost 100 years of Superman continuity, and

just shaving them down. into something that works

for a TV show. But then they'll also just include,

oh, and Bibbo's here too. Like, who cares about

this sailor guy that's shown up like 10 times

in a Superman comic? I do. And I'm so glad they

included this guy. This fatter version of Popeye.

Thank God that he's there. But other favorite

character, I just have to say, I feel like Clancy

Brown's voice. practically carried this show.

Not that there was any truly bad voice actors.

Like you said, Dana was great. Daly. Yeah, Tim

Daly. Tim Daly. These are all very solid voice

acting, but Clancy Brown actually had a sense

of cleverness and foreboding with everything

he talked about. where everything sounded smooth

yet threatening. It was so well done. So I guess

I'd have to, as a serious answer, just say Luthor.

Because even here where he's just a businessman,

where they tried to follow up with that retcon

of a, not retcon, but eventually just turn him

into respectable businessman Luthor. I thought,

well, how can this work for a kid's show? And

they do. It works very well. It works very well.

And honestly, while these were kid's shows at

the time, as an adult i don't see them as kid

shows i see them as a show for me or whatever

like you know like these were the shows that

okay so i'm oh no make no mistake i'm with you

yeah you know so i'm 37 and a half or whatever

the hell it is now and whatever else but like

in my lifetime in the when I started watching

stuff. Okay, sure, the old 70s Super Friends

stuff, that's all well, good, and great. I grew

up on that stuff. But this, this specific, the

DC Animated Universe shows, those are what, those

are definitive versions of all of the characters

for me. And those are the most, like... You know,

I am vengeance, I am the knight, I am Batman.

Everyone says that. I'm sure other people have

said that, but Kevin Conroy did it first, damn

it. And the same thing here with Superman with

Tim Daly. I mean, just the way his inflections

are done, same thing with Lex and all the other

voice cast, it's just so, so great. So, how the

season held up. Did the season keep our interest

throughout? Pretty much. For me, it did. I wasn't

ready to... There wasn't a moment where it's

like... If you're watching the current WWE stuff,

it's like at some point during one of those seven

-hour -long pay -per -views, there's going to

be a point where, okay, this is a dud match.

This is bathroom break time. There was none of

that here for me. Like I said, I went through

eight episodes of The 13 in almost a day and

a half. And then I watched the other ones pretty

much like almost right before we started the

recording. I do remember there were a few fights

that I just decided to skip through simply because

I just wanted to get through them. I knew where

they were going with it. Like these, they have

a very clear three act structure and. You know,

I just wanted to get through them, but none of

them were none of them were especially terrible

episodes. Nothing like that. Should we talk about

is this a good part for me to talk about the

animation? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

I said the voice acting, the voice acting in

the music. I feel really made this show OK to

watch, mostly because I feel like the. I do not

– they go with this nice what they call like

Art Deco sea liner view, like a cruise ship for

what Metropolis looks like. And I look at it

and I go, yeah, that's Metropolis. But it also

kind of looks like nothing. For me, it kind of

looks like the Jetsons, but without the balls.

They're trying to make it modern, but also we

don't quite know what the internet yet is in

1999, so people will still fax things, and our

computers are built into the desks. It's like

what people in the 50s think the future will

be like, but they're lazy about it. Nothing about

Metropolis really sticks out for me, and the

animation can get pretty bad at certain times,

especially whenever water gets involved. The

frame rate just kind of tanks. Now, these are

fairly minor things, and I do think the animation

gets a little bit more streamlined and slick.

There's also some slight anime influences, and

that sometimes means shortcuts in the show. But

it's still okay to watch. It's just when I think

back to the painted Gotham Cityscapes of Batman,

I keep thinking... I can't really name any places

in Metropolis that seems interesting. Like the

freaking farm looked more interesting and lived

in than anything in Metropolis. Everything feels

like a Barbie dream house in Metropolis that

hasn't been lived in. Even like, I don't know

what Clark's apartment looks like. Everything

just feels interchangeable. It's time to go to

the docks. It's time to go downtown, whatever

that means. There's just a lightness of being.

to the artwork in general and i think that and

i know i know for a fact because i watched again

watched the behind the scenes stuff on the dvds

when i had them i i remember almost everything

any bruce tim paul almost anything any of them

have said on the special feature stuff they specifically

intended this to because metropolis is coined

as the city of tomorrow um they intended it to

be light, bright, and more sprawling. They wanted

to do that to have a contrast to how dark Batman

was at the time. When you say you didn't see

Clark's apartment, you mean from the outside?

No, I mean, like, even his apartment seems kind

of barren. It's slick. Okay, yeah, it is. You're

right, it is. The reason why is Clark Kent's

Superman is basically the reverse of Bruce Wayne

Batman. Okay. Um, Bruce Wayne is the mask. Batman

is the man. Superman is the man. Clark Kent is

the mask. So like you were talking earlier, but

it doesn't seem like Clark has a lot of friends.

That's like some pseudo psychology. I've seen

thrown out an internet message board so many

times and it never really holds up to good scrutiny.

Uh, the, the nice thing about Superman, he has

three identities and he's made peace with all

of them. He's not hiding. Yeah, no, he's not.

You're right, he's not. But what I'm saying is,

because of Clark, you know, you said earlier,

Clark doesn't seem like he has friends, doesn't

seem like he has much of a social life, is because

he has that super hearing and that x -ray vision,

and he has to be Superman all the time when he's

not being a reporter. So he really doesn't have

time to do the downtime stuff. He doesn't have

time to go out and go to raves and whatever else.

Yeah, I mean... It would be weird to see Clark

Kent at raves or doing anything, but that's the

thing. Well, actually, no, because I do remember

in Season 2 or Season 3, something like that,

Clark Kent quote -unquote dies, and he even tells

his mom, if I have to be Superman all the time,

I'm going to go nuts. He needs his downtime.

He needs to have a routine and a regular job.

See, that was where things got interesting, because

they got more into Superman balancing his identity.

Here, it's just he's Clark Kent to do reportering.

And that's cool, but there's nothing else to

his character, at least with Batman. Well, I

hate even making that comparison, Ben. I'm talking

literally about the way these shows are structured

and how these characters act. They have their

role, and then there's not much else to it, except

when Lois talks to Clark. Then I feel like there's

some camaraderie, there's some kind of friendly

rivalry, and that's a nice addition to the show

itself. I'm just saying that like if the gimmick

isn't good in the episode, there's not much else

to really interest you. To me, like the backgrounds

are kind of even as bright. And like I say, it

looks like Metropolis. It looks like how I'd

imagine Metropolis to be, but it still feels

kind of barren and lacking character. So if there's

nothing interesting going on in the forefront,

the background won't save you. Yeah. And the

other thing to remember about this show, this

specific season is. They were doing both this

and the new adventures of Batman, the new adventures

of Batman at the time. So they were running themselves

pretty ragged. That's why this season has 13

episodes and it's basically character introduction

plot, you know, almost not necessarily villain

of the week, but you know, there are a couple

of these episodes where it's like, Hey, this

is. you know, Superman stopping bank heists or

whatever because they were running themselves

ragged and everything else. And you're right.

Season two and season three are much more in

depth and explore more because by that time,

BTS was completely done. Oh, that's interesting.

I didn't know they were working overlap like

that. Oh, yeah. That does explain a lot. And

like I said, for what they did, it was a very

well -paced show and it's a lot more adult. than

I gave it credit for. And what I mean by adult

is even in your favorite episode, the three -part

Man of Tomorrow one, or sorry, the Last Son of

Krypton. Did you, like... Only as an adult could

I understand what Lex Luthor was really doing

there. He was essentially running a geopolitical

shell game where he made a big robot suit, and

then he had third -party people steal the robot

suit so he could sell it to Kazakhstan, who the

United States has a trade embargo on, and then

sell it to them for a billion dollars, and then

have the government... make a new contract for

a multi -billion dollar contract, and they explain

all this to people in a Superman show, and it's

like, well, he's playing a Cold War shell game

to feed into the military -industrial complex.

It's like, Jesus Christ! I wasn't expecting that

level of Tom Clancy shit in a Superman show.

This is what I mean by adult. And they do this

a lot where they just assume you understand how

the law works and how corporations work. And

we're just going to, we're just, and if you're

eight years old, just tune it out. Superman's

going to punch something real soon, man. Don't

you worry. Yep. Absolutely. And at least they're

not, you know, trying to, you know. create Lexburg

or Otisville or something. At least they're not

on the San Andreas Fault. Yeah, that would be

bad. That would be very bad. So we have a universal

rating system. I just gave you the link in Skype.

Once you get a look at that, let me know what

you would rate season one of Superman the Animated

Series. Oh, okay. Let's see if I can share that.

Oh, the rating scale. Wasn't this like out of

ten? No, it's 0 -5 with half points, so technically

it is 10, but we use 0 -5 with like 4 .5 or 3

.5 or whatever. Oh, okay. I'd say it's a solid

3 .5. I did not regret watching this first season,

but I can't imagine another time I'll be watching

it again unless there's a reason. I said everything

was lined up very well and they were very respectful

to Superman. But boy, a lot of it is Superman

stopping a heist and there might be a twist.

Sometimes there is not, though. And every now

and then he fights a cool white alien dude. And

boy, that's pretty neat. That'll fill up a solid

44 minutes of your day and you won't regret that.

Sometimes a janitor gets some purple goo on him

and that all that dude can think of is to chain

Superman in his basement like a psycho and throw

some trucks. around you get those episodes too

yeah that's very very true we do get those episodes

um for me i gotta give it a four because like

i said i haven't actually gone back and watched

this in a very long time um and i you're right

it does need improvements But overall, for a

first season of 13 episodes, based on the fact

that it was released in 1996, I think it really

has stood up the test of time. I really do. And

I really, really dug it. You're right, Bibbo

coming in. And the cool thing is Bibbo is also

Brad Garrett. That was hilarious, getting him

to do that. And Lobo as well. But yeah, Superman

the Animated Series Season 1. I will give a 4

.2. Dane's going to give it a 3 .5. We're going

to take a quick break. We're going to come back

with promotions and a bunch of other stuff after

this. This is 80s Action Sensation. I'm Schwarzenegger.

And I'm here to tell you about the... podcast

I produce called Punisher Body Count. It's the

net's best Punisher podcast, but don't take my

word for it. Listen to the hosts. Punisher Body

Count is a work in progress. To listen to this

great show, you can find this on iTunes. Just

search Punisher Body Count or come to our website,

PunisherBodyCount .com. DeCian, the superhero

webcomic. DeCian's got superhero antics and sexy

girls. For action, comedy, mayhem, and more,

read it now at dasien .com. D -A -S -I -E -N

dot com. Ah, brave new world that has such putzes

in it. You know, kids, a lot has changed while

your old Uncle Joker's been away. New Gotham,

new rules, even a new Batman. It isn't 65 years

in the future, but Legends of the Dark Knight

has gone beyond. Batman Beyond, that is. Ah,

the new boy. Ears are too long and I miss the

cape, but not too shabby. Not too shabby at all.

Join Steve and Mike as they delve into the remaining

episodes of the podcast where they'll cover Batman

Beyond, products, games, and more. Check it out

only on geekcastradio .com. We are back here

on ToonCast Beyond, episode 78. I'm, of course,

TF2 and Mike, joined with Dane Lamont. It is

time to close out the show, so Dane, what's going

on over at Punisher Body Count? Tell us all about

it. Well... We are, of course, going to be covering

the Netflix show that's coming out in a few weeks

here in November. We have a lot of new members

in our Facebook fan page that you can find on

Facebook. That's the best way to keep up with

not just Punisher news, but our own show, Punisher

Body Count. So the two places I'll recommend

you to go if you're interested in the Punisher

or just two guys that can't stop making dick

jokes. My other co -host is, of course, Jake

Williams, a guy that's slowly driving me insane.

he's also a really good friend of mine that shows

you the state my life is in. So there there's

punish your body count .com. That's the main

podcast site. And then on Facebook, you can just

put in punish your body count into the Facebook

search engine. And after they've done tabulating

all your data, they're going to send you to our

page and we'll invite you in. It's real easy.

Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. We don't need any more

dollar general hose. oh man dollar general that's

classic yeah i know it is people from great britain

visit america and immediately go to dollar general

to like take pictures and stuff like in some

kind of goddamn landmark like jesus dude go see

the statue liberty or something don't waste your

time oh there's so many of those jokes now now

the main joke is i'm going to have a stroke or

heart attack any day now like they've made memes

about that it's pretty pretty terrible Well,

you know, yeah. Yeah, it's, holy crap, you're

right, it's November already. I didn't forget

that Punisher was coming, but I knew it was after,

obviously, we saw Defenders and all that and

everything else. Yep, fingers crossed it's not

more terrorism or shootings. Otherwise, you know,

who knows? 2018, maybe? Yeah, really, ain't that

the truth? If anyone's looking for Superman the

Animated Series, All three seasons are on DVD.

Also, you can get the complete series, which

is essentially just all three seasons in one

package as well. I will put links to Dane's...

I will put links to Punisher Body Count and the

website and the Facebook page and all that in

the post, so everyone can click on those and

head on over there and listen to them talk about

some Punisher comics and other Punisher -related

stuff. What is the state of the Punisher comics

nowadays? I've looked in the group every now

and then, but... Oh, sure. Well, here's the thing.

Now what's interesting about the Punisher is

we just had our first long -term writer that

was a woman named Becky Clonin. Most people say

that her... run was about good to average like

what the run got amazing toward the end you know

like in a comic book series you know a series

is going to end when they just start doing a

bunch of one shot stories and everything before

has been like six parters or bigger and they're

just kind of running out the clock what was weird

is she did this giant 12 part epic about the

Punisher trying to destroy this drug ring across

the northeastern part of the United States and

it was It was okay, but kind of boring. Steve

Dillon's artwork carried it. Unfortunately, Steve

Dillon died during this run, and the art got

a little shaky. Then when they got to these one...

These one shots where Frank is literally just

like a concerned citizen, like neighborhood watch

Frank Castle just helping the common man out

in Brooklyn. Those were really entertaining stories.

And it makes me really sad that they're gone.

Now what it's being replaced with is Punisher

War Machine because Rhodey got killed. It was

Rhodey's turn to die in one of the latest like

Civil War tie ins. Or actually, he died in the

main Civil War two story. So now, oh, man, who?

Who's gonna be War Machine? The clear answer

is a guy that had no connection to Rhodey, Frank

Castle. So now Frank Castle's a robot man. It's

pretty cool, dude. More cool stuff from the House

of Ideas. Yeah, um... I'm not so sure a Punisher

robot is gonna work. Oh, no, he sees the man

inside the robot. And what's funny is, we've

made jokes about this, but we said, so, like,

Frank's taking on the role of, like... one of

the few original African -American characters

that Marvel actually had. But the thing is, Frank

has been a black man before. In the early 90s,

he took plastic surgery to hide from the kingpin,

and the plastic surgeon turned him into a black

man. It was a fascinatingly bad story. Like,

even the writer, Mike Barron, has disowned it.

But literally him becoming a black man through

plastic surgery is a more interesting idea to

me than making him war machine. However, I will

say that a lot of the listeners enjoy the writer

who is currently on whose name I can't remember.

So I'm going to try and go into it in a fair,

you know, a try and fair state of mind. To me,

it's another it's kind of another gimmick. Just

when the Punisher was getting good in the regular

universe. Yeah, but. Failing all that, Garth

Ennis is back. You can read more Punisher Max

comics with Punisher the Platoon. You can learn

about Frank Castle during his first tour of Vietnam

before he ever turned into a psychopath. And

it is wonderful comics. Beautiful art by Goran

Parlov. Awesome. All right, folks. At some point,

I don't know when, but maybe sometime in 2018,

I will have Dane back on for Superman the Animated

Series Season 2. Oh, that'd be wonderful. Because

that's not currently in the plans right now.

It was going to be, but it... I'm sure you got

a big rotation. Yeah, pretty much. Coming up

next, we're going to be talking more superheroes.

For now, though, that's going to do it for this...

episode of tooncast i'd like to thank you for

joining us here on the show and of course we

invite you to get in contact with us and leave

feedback for the show visit the website geekcastradio

.com you can email us feedback at geekcastradio

.com just put in tooncast beyond episode 78 feedback

or whatever you want to do leave the social feedback

in itunes please do this follow us on twitter

at tooncast beyond is the show twitter i am at

tfg1 mike what is the pbc twitter dane Oh, man,

good question. I think if you just type in Punisher

Body Count, you'll see us. But we mostly just

use that for updates. I'm pretty bad with Twitter.

Become a fan on Facebook. Go to Facebook .com

slash Geekcast Radio Network. And as Dane said

earlier, you can also check out Punisher Body

Count over there as well. We hope you enjoyed

this episode of ToonCast Beyond and wish you'll

join us next time when we will be giving you

our thoughts on X -Men the Animated Series Season

4. For now, I am TFG1 Mike with... Oh, Dan Lamont.

Thank you for listening until next time. This

is Bruce Timm. Hi. And Bruce is one of the big

people here today. This is Little People's Day,

so you're just skating on thin ice just to even

be here. And Bruce is the one who supported this

kind of music for his show. Most of the Warner

animated stuff has Carl Stalling type of stuff,

and Bruce was very definitely knowing he wanted

dramatic underscoring for his show. Plus he's

the one when Warner Brothers said, well, now

that we've recorded 30 -some -odd of those, can't

we just track the rest? And Bruce just made sure

that that never happened. So, yeah. Okay, folks.

I think we can make this.