Walt Disney Animation Direction Review

Beyond good, beyond evil, beyond your wildest

imagination! Hello and welcome to Tooncast Beyond!

Yes, that's right, it has been one year or so

since Tooncast Beyond had our... DreamWorks wrap

up in episode 57 Ladies and gentlemen, I am TFU

and Mike. I'm one of your hosts and I gotta say

DreamWorks Katzenberg nearly fucking killed me

Those movie like by the time we got to the DreamWorks

wrap up I never wanted to do this podcast ever

again because of DreamWorks films The animation

films anyway Uh, joining me is TV's Mr. Neil.

Hello. Hello. Bippity boppity boo. Yes. Uh, and

what we are doing here is a 12 episode spotlight

on animation, specifically directors. I was thinking

more of, uh, the spotlight is going to be called

animation direction. It's gonna be Neil and I

basically talking about various animation directors

over the last well since the 1930s at least You

know so the last you know seven or eight decades

etc etc and this is gonna be Kind of tune casts

return a little bit. We're not yet ready to go

to season 3 I'm not really sure what season three

is going to be. I kind of have this idea in the

back of my mind to turn the show into a grab

bag kind of thing where one episode will be this,

one episode will be that, and you never know

what you're going to get. Basically pull a Forrest

Gump on you people. Um, I'm not sure. Yes. Box

of chocolates. That's right. I'm not sure because

like I said, the dream works spotlight really

like took a lot out of me and it's taken me a

year to kind of get my wits about me. uh... to

come back to this podcast to do more cartoon

discussions for you guys uh... so i think if

i do the like if i do season three is kinda like

a grab bag kind of thing we could do a couple

disney films we could do a couple of uh... uh...

you know other cartoons i know i know people

are dying to have us do gargoyles i know people

have been dying to have me do gargoyles since

to cast classic uh... will get to it Was actually

gonna do it about three months ago because Someone

somewhere in the universe uploaded all of season

one of gargoyles onto YouTube and now it's gone

Yeah, I know right So as I said, this is gonna

be the animation direction spotlight we are going

to be doing 12 episodes I don't know if Neil

and I are going to have a third coast at all.

It's probably just going to be us. Let me see

here. What are your thoughts about doing this

whole spotlight thing? My thoughts? Yes. It's

going to be a spotlight about directors, I guess.

I don't know. Alright, so, like I said, 12 episodes.

The first one, obviously, today is going to be

Walt Disney, later. After that is Bob Clampett,

Tex Avery, Fris Freeling, Robert McKimson, which

I actually will probably be talking more on that

episode than Neil will because I actually...

Because of Cartoon Network, they show a lot of

McKimson's cartoons on the Looney Tunes hours,

so Bill Melendez, the Fleishers, David Dupati,

and then Neil, you're gonna kind of take over

with lesser -known Golden Age directors with

Wilfred Jackson, Burt, and Burt Gillette. We'll

do Oob Works, or I think, or Iwerks, I, how do

you say his name? I think it's of Iwerks. My

works. Okay. There you go. You're at the final

two episodes will be Obviously William one episode

will be William Hannah and Joseph Barbera and

the final episode will be the master of the back

-and -forth the yeah The master of back -and

-forth duck season rabbit season. Mr. Chuck Jones

So like I said in this one, it's gonna be all

about Walt Disney What was the first Disney movie

you ever saw? Do you remember? Well, I'm gonna

disqualify everything after Jungle Book. So I'll

just go right for a Pinocchio Wow, seriously,

you're gonna disqualify Everything after why

because he died during the jungle book. So it's

kind of hard to credit him for something Okay

Okay, that's true. That's true I don't have his,

I don't have the filmography in front of me.

Was Robin Hood before or after? I believe it

was after because Robin Hood has that kind of

scratchy, Xerox -y look and I think all the cartoons

that have that are after he died. Yeah, that's

probably the one I remember the most as a kid.

I do remember Lady and the Tramp and Cinderella.

What else? I mean, the guy really was. He's one

of those creators that started something and

then gave it to the people that he trusted and

said, here, go do this. And we're saying this

because we kind of ran into a brick wall when

we noticed that he really doesn't have much of

a career as a director. No, he doesn't. I mean,

he has a wonderful career as a producer according

to IMDB. He has 657 credits as a producer. Which

is really, really interesting. I mean, the way

I look at it is he started it all. Sure, he wasn't

directing, but I mean, he's kind of like, I really

hate doing this, but... He's kind of, but not

really like George Lucas. Whereas I said a moment

ago, he basically, you know, went ahead, created

the studio, had all this stuff and, you know,

did a lot of stuff in the beginning and then

handed it off and said, here, you know, take

this and make it good. And I'm sure he had a

lot of say in the final product and everything

else. What he created with Mickey Mouse and Silly

Symphonies and all that, I mean, It was just

amazing, honestly. He was a visionary. I think

the Lucas comparison might be more apt than a

lot of people realize because he wasn't exactly

the most creative guy on the staff. I mean, he

created Mickey Mouse and Oswald and I guess he

also sort of created Goofy. But it seems like

everyone around him were the idea people. He

was just like the visionary. I mean, he's...

He's the son of a contractor. His father is one

of the people who helped construct the 1893 Columbian

Exposition, the World's Bear. And if you've ever

seen pictures of this thing, it's basically like

a precursor to Disney World. It's this huge,

huge monstrosity of a theme park that they built

right here in Chicago. And I think there's only

two buildings left. One of them is the Museum

of Science and Industry. And yeah, his father

helped put that together. And yeah, like I said,

it's kind of like what Disney World would have

been. So it seemed like Walt got his business

sense from his father and not so much creativity.

a decent cartoonist, but I think he noticed that

of iWorks was better. So he's like, yeah, I'm

going to do these silly symphonies and you're

going to draw them. I'm just going to sit back

over here and handle the money. And that's what

he did. Sit over here and handle the money. First

thing that comes to mind, Scrooge McDuck. Not

that he was that way, but that's the first thing.

Yeah, a lot of people compare Walt to... to Jim

Henson and I don't think so. Jim was much more

hands -on. He was much more involved. I do know,

I always remember seeing this video somewhere

where he explains the seven dwarfs. I do remember

that. I forget where I saw it. Not really sure

but I remember him and I remember other people

talking about how You know his foray into features

was a huge gamble adapting Snow White And I know

a lot of people put Snow White and the seven

dwarfs on a pedestal I personally don't it's

great animation It's amazing animation for 1937.

That's amazing for that era. It's a great first

step into the field of feature length animation,

I'll say that. It is as far as the actual animation,

as far as the plot and the writing and all of

that. That story is... It's funny because Disney...

The corporation, Disney, has always had this

family vibe to it. And if you look at that movie,

that movie is so anti -family. It's probably

the equivalent as to what a 1994 Jerry Springer

family feud episode would be like. It really

is. Well, other than that, I mean, it was also

kind of scary in places. I mean, the evil queen.

When she starts changing into the into the old

hag that was really That was hard to look at

when I was a kid and Pinocchio even more so Pinocchio

is just like a nightmare but you know, that was

kind of the way it was done back then I mean

there were not like These ninis we have now where

cartoons have to be safe and appropriate for

little two -year -olds and no one's allowed to

be scared or offended Yeah Yeah, I mean look

how far Disney has come since nineteen thirty

seven since snow white uh... i mean they've really

the greatest thing about disney is their animation

for the most part kind of skewered more to the

family friendly and like you were saying you

know about the kids and everything else and then

they go off and create I think it was them. They

went off and did a sub -genre, sub -studio called

Touchstone, where they were actually able to...

Touchstone Pictures, where they're actually able

to actually do more... not adult in the way that

it sounds as I'm saying it, but more like, you

know, films for adults, which is really cool.

But I mean, his... the early works, the early

films... They're good in their own ways, I guess.

Pinocchio really freaked me out. I mean... What

do I look like, a jackass? Pinocchio just really

freaked me out. Now, I know back in Tooncast

Classic, Optimus Solo and I did do a Disney spotlight

and we actually reviewed each one of the films.

So I'm trying not to repeat a lot of what I said

back then, which was a number of years ago. Yeah,

I would say the probably after Snow White, the

two Well, Pinocchio, it freaked me out. And then

Alice in Wonderland, I just didn't get. I guess

you had to be stoned to understand that movie.

Yeah, as I understand it, that book was written

by someone on an acid trip. And yeah, it's very

drug induced. And I guess you need some sort

of enhancement to really get through that movie.

Yeah. Mean I can get through it. I just don't

get I mean as an adult I can get through it and

it's fine I just I notice all these things now

that you know movies like half -baked and You

know how high and all this and all that have

come out since Alice in Wonderland. It's like

Okay, it's kind of a weird fit for these straight

-laced Disney style because Disney was very his

entire studio is based on being very Stylized

or is like the Warner Brothers gang. They were

all like very abstract weird and they would experiment

with colors, which Disney did later on, but you

pretty much had very natural colors in Disney

films. You didn't really go into the weird spectrum

of colors and shit like that. Yep. And of course,

he killed Bambi's mom. I'm sorry, Bambi's mom.

I'm going to find that clip. Bumby's mom. So

hilarious. Something about early Disney films

is always killing parents. Yeah. We say that

Disney is supposed to have this family -friendly

kind of vibe and be all wholesome and everything

else, but a lot of the early Disney films were...

anything but wholesome movies. It's almost like

Dumbo was an apology for that. It was like the

mother got to live at the end. Although someone's

going to point out, oh, Dumbo was before this

movie. Yeah, I'm probably wrong. Right, right.

I really love the old Disney shorts. Really where

I got to see them. More so I'd say in the last

20 years or so is when they had House of Mouse

on Disney Channel Which is basically the you

know the club that you know Mickey and Minnie

and Donald and goofy and all them kind of run

And they show the old classic tunes. I do remember

as a kid 1986 we went to Disney World I hated

every minute of it I was six years old and I

had to walk everywhere. I hated it. Oh, that's

why Yeah and plus the guy that Thought maybe

you had a bad time at like on like Space Mountain

or the Talking Presidents or something? No, I

don't even think 86 was Space Mountain there.

I don't even remember I don't know. I honestly

don't remember. I remember the bad time I did

have was on I believe it was at Epcot when Figment

was still there at the time. The guy that owned

Figment or controlled him or whatever else scared

the crap out of me. And there was another time

I went back and I thought it was really hilarious.

I went in 86 when I was six years old. I went

back in 95 when I was 15 and they had the Honey,

we shrunk the audience thing and it was this

interactive ride where you had You know, they

did all these weird effects where they you know,

it seemed like they shrunk us and at the end

of it the mouse or something rat whatever it

is runs under it so they Mimicked a rat running

under it's like oh God nothing on the dog sneezes

on us. So they spray water spray water at us

How much did he have influence putting Disneyland

and Disney World together? Ooh, I should have

looked that up for the show. Sorry, because I

think... Did he die before Disney World opened?

There's something about that where he... There's

a picture of him doing a dedication speech. There

was something about the timeline of that where...

The official opening in one of those parks he

helped plan, but he died Yeah, I really should

have looked that up before the show started sorry

folks I'm just trying to find it here now world

opened in 71, so Maybe he didn't Yeah, I think

he was dead before that yeah done. He died in

66. Yeah Parks and Resorts Yeah, the first one

opened in 1953 retains a concert Let's see Disneyland

is dedicated by Walt Disney on July 17th. It

opens on July 18th Disney 1955 so Disneyland

came first and then and in 1955 and then Disney

World Happened in 71 And his head is frozen at

one of those. No, it's not. No, it's not. Gee.

You can only make that joke with Peter Cullen

because you know that's exactly what Michael

Bay would want to do. Jerk. You know, like we

said, he was an amazing visionary. I remember

watching a lot of the old Disney cartoons as

a kid and loving them. I see myself and I know

it's gonna be bad but I see honestly as a kid

I saw myself even before like looking back on

it now I see myself as a child at like I am Roger

Rabbit it's like ah the news I was hoping for

another goofy cartoon I used to love goofy cartoons

as a kid goofy was amazing so many good memories

Goofy was almost like their answer to Bob Clampett.

It was like let's be silly Because Mickey was

very straight -laced Donald was he was angry

and that made him funny, but he didn't really

do much physical comedy like kind of did but

Goofy was definitely like the physical comedy

character Yeah, he was I love the ones the shorts

where I think there's one where he goes to do

sports and love the narrator for the goofy cartoons

because it might be like as a child it might

be the first narrator I had ever heard actually

interact with the character now I know that there

was later on there was thorough Ravenscroft that

was a stupor duck I know he interacts with Daffy

and that but The narrator that did the goofy

cartoons. I remember loving that That was so

awesome Who is your favorite? Core Disney character

like Mickey Minnie Donald goofy the chipmunks.

Who's your favorite core Disney character? I

Would probably go with either your doll maybe

goofy Just because he is like His other cartoons

I've seen the most, you know, the how -to cartoons

that were almost like Tex Avery's House of Tomorrow

series. And it was like, oh, what was the character?

It was like an offshoot character of Goofy, or

it was like, oh, I can't remember the name of

what they would call him for those, but it was

like where Goofy was like a straight man. It

was kind of weird, but it was like really funny

too. There's like the one where he's like, Whenever

he gets behind the wheel he turns into like this

Jekyll and Hyde character. Oh, yeah Oh was that

no that was that's I'm thinking of I'm thinking

of Mickey's altar altar personality. That's not

no I was thinking Mortimer Mouse She's Voiced

by John Lovitz the only person that could bring

Mortimer Mouse to life For me favorite core character

as a kid it was always Chip and Dale I always

loved those guys my favorite Disney cartoon Is

Mickey's What's it called I it's it's Mickey's

Christmas tree or Mickey gets a Christmas tree

It's where Pluto faces off with the chipmunks

and is there in the tree Really liked that one.

I thought I thought that was really that's the

one where Mickey gets Mickey almost turns kind

of heelish because he gets very verbally abusive

but Pluto he's like Pluto dog gone what? Yeah,

yeah, so awesome I I would have to look that

up to see who was voicing Mickey then but honestly

the best voice for Mickey for me was Wayne Alwayne

or all wine He died not too long ago, right?

Yeah, yeah. I believe I heard an interview with

Rob Paulson. He did an interview with April Winchell

and she said that one day that she had walked

into the studio and Wayne and Rusty Taylor were...

Rusty Taylor was sitting on his lap and she was

like, oh, okay, that's how it's gonna be in the

studio. She didn't realize that they were actually

married. But I think that's really nice and sweet

that you can go to work with your significant

other and you're basically playing the characters

that I have no idea what Wayne and Rusty's personal

life was like, but it just seemed like they put

all of their love into those characters. There's

so many jokes I can make there, but I'm not going

to. Stop it. Just stop it. Walt was a visionary,

he was... He was the guy that brought us Mary

Poppins. Have you seen that Tom Hanks movie?

Oh, I have not. I haven't either. Mary Poppins

isn't something that... Really cared for as a

kid. I know that's blast for me to say but I

don't know I think people have kind of soured

on Mary Poppins in recent years especially the

very bad British accent of Dick Van Dyke Wow,

that's funny So yeah Overall, Walt Disney did

have an amazing career while he was alive. He

created the stepping stones for everyone else

that has come since then. There are several movies

up to the late 90s that I really love by Disney.

There's only really right now Probably one that

I really love and another one that I like. I

love Wreck -It Ralph. I really do. It's not because

of the video game homages either. It's because

of the story that the movie tells. Right. The

video game homages are just like bonus points.

And I really did like, I've never liked Rapunzel.

Like I've never liked that whole tale. I just,

I don't... Never liked it until tangled honestly

and tangled isn't like if I was gonna make my

top 20 Disney film list tangled would probably

be like somewhere around 11 or 12 I mean, it's

not my favorite Disney film of all time that

would probably if I really had to choose it would

probably be either It'd be a tie between Robin

Hood Aladdin and the Lion King honestly for me

What about you My favorite is probably I'm gonna

go with Sleeping Beauty. It's like it's like

Snow White done correctly It's like the hero

gets a lot more screen time this kid the villain

is really scared probably the scariest Disney

film villain ever Yeah, Maleficent. Oh, yeah,

I Still have yet to see I've seen the previews

for it, but I still have yet to see the Angelina

Jolie version the new film I just thought that

anytime she pops up in any kind of character

thing, I always think, oh wow, that's perfect

casting for her. Yeah, I always thought, and

I know this won't happen because I know in House

of Mouse she actually put him in his place, but

after seeing the Aladdin films, I always thought

Maleficent and Jafar should have children because

they're the two evilest people in the Disney

universe. Alright, so I know this was kind of

a short one ladies and gentlemen We honestly

thought and we did do research into this we did

look it up We honestly thought that Disney himself

Directed a lot more films than he did it turns

out that he produced a lot more of them than

he did I believe I looked it up. I think it was

on TC the Turner Classic movies website where

it lists him directing a total of 10 films that

have honestly I don't think anything to do with

Disney with Disney animation, but you know He

took a chance on Snow White and even though I

don't like the plot of the film That kind of

paved the way for what we've gotten since I'm

sure if it hadn't been Snow White it would have

been something else and whatever else. Oh, yeah,

that was going to happen sooner or later anyway

so well one last thing we can say well i actually

have two last two points go ahead but one thing

is that uh he created oswald the lucky rabbit

for years oswald was the property of universal

because uh disney there was some pay dispute

disney had to leave but he couldn't take oswald

with him and just a few years ago disney got

all oswald back they traded uh was it uh What

some sports announcer he said he's gonna be a

trivia question one day. I already forgot your

name, dude. So sorry Yeah, they yeah, they recently

got it back. So the circle is is complete now.

So Oswald's back at Disney So that's cool one

little cross. Oh, you're gonna say something

Well, I was gonna say yeah, I kind of remember

Oswald coming back because he was in epic Mickey

to the video game Yeah, and he made a cameo they

they did a They did a Disney short recently that

was in the style of one of the old, really, really

old Disney silent Mickey cartoons and he makes

a cameo in there and it's very quick, you'll

almost miss it. And then we mentioned Who Framed

Roger Rabbit earlier and that was kind of cool

because it's the first time and I believe still

the only time that Mickey and Bugs have ever

appeared on the screen together. That that was

a really special thing, but there was one other

time that Disney and Warner Brothers Didn't really

cross paths, but they were kind of they kind

of had had their hand in the same thing back

back during World War two the The US government

commissioned was going looking to commission

a series of of cartoons for for the troops to

watch you know like instructional videos like

what not to do, and they came up with this character,

Private Snafu. Originally, it was going to be

Disney, but I guess Roy kind of was asking just

a little too much, and they passed, and they

gave it to Schlesinger, who immediately put all

his goons on it, and that's why, have you ever

watched those cartoons? They're very, very E2

-esque. They are great cartoons, a little racist,

but they're good cartoons. Yeah, that's something

that's gonna come up here in the spotlight ladies

and gentlemen Everyone says and I believe on

the golden collection DVDs. I think on volume

3 actually I don't I Mean I kind of know why

in the back of my mind, but they have whoopie

Goldberg introducing them And they always say

that the classic Looney Tunes cartoons have a

lot of blackface jokes in them and everything

else and Honestly, I've seen a lot of them. I

actually used to have all six of the Looney Tunes

Golden Collection DVD sets and I Guess I'm just

missing it. I don't know Well, there were I think

there I well in the process of researching I

did come across the the fabled 11 censored Looney

Tunes cartoons that are really bad and then like

the rest of them There aren't really a lot of

blackface jokes and I'm like there are a couple

It's still like through but they're censored

and what they show on TV today Yeah, I mean it's

like, you know, I never thought it was racist

if if you know Daffy Duck turned the the tables

on Elmer flood and shot him in the face and his

face turned his face Turned black because the

gunpowder because it gets shot in the face. Yeah,

that's that's the one thing I I know that doesn't

really excuse it. But like when we were kids,

we didn't get that You're just like, oh, it's

a gunpowder gag. We didn't really have context

for Vaudeville and burlesque sketches. Yeah,

no. Not at all. All right, so coming up next

on Tooncast Beyond, we're going to be doing Bob

Clampett. That's going to be a very trippy episode.

That's going to be the most controversial of

the five major directors at Warner Brothers.

Yeah, really controversial he's and what a surprise

he's John Chris Lucy's favorite director and

he's just like him That's kind of sad Because

John Kay is no friend of mine So that's gonna

do it for this tune cast beyond animation direction

I will be putting the contact information and

all that good stuff in a separate clip. We will

be back after this. Down in front. On these glorious

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