Greg Rucka’s Punisher: Enter WarZone

about how roadie basically stole the armor and

then i was like yeah what's the first thing he

does he goes and uh pimps it out with some rims

and like that didn't sound racist in my head

but then when it came out i was like oh damn

no you don't understand some of my best friends

are in the military it's okay some of my best

friends put rims on things it's okay I felt like

that guy that got busted on the on John Stewart

the other night Welcome to the pullback Join

us as we dig out our latest comics and discuss

them with a rotating panel of the GCRN crew So

sit back and enjoy this week's pullback Hello

and welcome to the pull bag, which is the Punisher

bag. This is the second to last episode of Punisher

month I am your host if you and Mike joining

me is Ryan the uneven flow. Hello Of course also

joining us as the Punisher body count crew of

Jake and Dane. Hello guys Is people really a

crew? I'm sorry. I think you need at least three

or four to be a crew slash gang Thought it three

or four. It's a pot. I thought you just needed

rims on your Oh Does that mean he's a one -man

crew never mind All right here tonight to Talk

about the epilogue to ruckus run in Punisher

war zone Ryan run down the staff All right, we

forgot to do that last time around to I thought

you wanted like the synopsis Here I can do the

synopsis of this Punisher versus the Avengers

The same Well except for the artists because

I mean Let's just go straight into the book with

this too because I mean the writer is still Greg

Rockett The cover artist is Marco Chichetto,

which is also phenomenal He does some great great

covers in this and mentioned that last time The

big difference though is the artist is Carmine

de Jim. Yeah did Jim de Medeco and Daned his

cousin. So let Dane pronounce. Okay. Oh Anyway

weaker ones Jake, sorry neck beard You know what?

I don't need any more of a description for this

aside from Punisher versus the Avengers. What

other description is there? Exactly. I mean,

he frees Rachel. That's the other big plot point.

And we have the ending. So yippee. Well, this

is the fallout to Rachel's captured for killing

Bolt. And this is how Frank reacts to it. We

get spider -man we mentioned that in this in

the last issue that spider -man comes after him

because of his use of the web shooters And that's

how this all all kicks off But what truly kicks

it off is that spider -man loses a fight and

then he go tell then he goes tells his mom his

buddies to like come and like help him beat up

this one guy who roughed it Yeah, Thor has to

take him in the back and give him some Vagisil

and yeah the I'll say this too. I don't think

it works with that metal hammer. I loved that

fight because through it all, you see Frank very

much telling Spider -Man, like, just leave this.

You know, I'm basically begging you just leave

me now or else I'm gonna have to do something

we're both gonna regret. Just walk away. Just

walk away, bro. Just walk away. But I mean, I

liked that because Spider -Man does not inhabit

Frank's world and he cannot inhabit Frank's world.

He is not, you know, Spider -Man doesn't know

what it's like to fight to the death. That's

Frank's like every fight for him and against

the superheroes and we'll get into it in a bit.

against superheroes it's basically a field day

for him because against guys like iron man or

thor he can fight like absolutely without holding

back completely lethally he doesn't have to hold

back at all and they make the plot points of

it later that when he's shooting at iron man

he's using actual rounds but when he shoots spider

-man or the others the gloves are on He suddenly

starts using rubber bullets because he knows

he can actually hurt them but against Iron Man

he can go to town on the guy and I think and

Thor obviously and there's a part of him that

I think enjoys that because he doesn't have to

hold back and it also makes him that much tougher

for these heroes all of whom have to hold back

every single time they fight anybody. Yeah, but

he doesn't and you know and he and he deploys

his ultimate weapon on Thor which is beer Yes,

I Will say really quickly the one thing that

I really loved about all five of these issues

is How they incorporate and I've said this in

previous episodes Covering superior spider -man

how they incorporate the daily viewable now what

they do in a couple of these issues specifically

issue, too It's basically a safari web browser

Hilarious, huh? That's hilarious. Yeah Wow, somebody

missed the point of that that's good anyway,

are you one of those apple douchebags Mike? but

I'm just saying that I like the the style of

how Marvel does the recaps like this with using

the Daily Bugle I think that's really that's

that's more so my point where if you look at

specifically like the first five issues of superior

spider -man it's basically four panels okay I

see what you're saying yeah I made a joke about

that on body count one time Like they were doing

they were doing the recap as if it were a Daily

Bugle article but what they used for the picture

on the paper was Frank swinging into the window

and I'm like Who was the fucking photographer

that got that angle? Ironically, it was Spider

-Man. Ironically, it was Spider -Man. Ironically,

it was Eddie Brock. Yeah, they also use different

shots, like Rachel and Frank getting ready from

the Omega effect crossover. I mean, they just

use shots from the comic, which I wanted to mention

this, too. The art in this is off because Diageomenico

is not doing his art. He's trying to do an approximation

of Marco Checchetto's work. If you've ever seen

his work on its own, it's very different from

Chicheto's style and a lot of what's done here

and I feel like he made a mistake trying to be

Chicheto instead of just being himself. I agree

because Hollingsworth was gonna give it the hue

that it needed to mimic Chicheto. So I agree

that he should have just went off in his own

style. Yeah, I think that's what he what should

have been done here and I mean it's it's not

bad are it's just when you're comparing it to

the other or the rest of the run it just Really

feels off all of a sudden. I mean the skull is

drawn completely different, but it's still an

approximation of Marcos. So Oops, yeah, the other

thing is because you have to incorporate the

Avengers and spider -man and and all that It's

gonna be slightly, I mean, yeah, I'm sure it

would've been better if he went off on his own

style, but because you have to keep with what

has already happened. Oh, and I'll say this too,

one touch I need to, desperately wanted to remember

to mention, the skull in these issues, take a

real good look at the one eye. That's awesome.

A nice touch. Yeah, the one eye of the skull

is scarred much like Frank's eye is because in

this he wears the eye patch because he's missing

an eye essentially Yeah, I liked that that was

neat that like even on the skull There's just

this line and it's just a cute little like touch

that not everyone's gonna notice I think the

rule of comics is if you want to make your character

more badass You give them a scar and make them

lose an eye The one that there were a couple

of panels in this that I didn't really like honestly

like when they first When black and this is like

deep into the issues when they first find him

when she's like the whole desert scene Yeah,

the fight with black widow I just I don't know

I like the character designs in that but I just

I don't know that I think it's the colors I think

cuz I'm so used to the the Punisher world being

blues, grays, and blacks, and really dark. It's

kind of like you go into a dark room, you turn

a light on, holy crap, it's too bright. It's

one of those types of things. It's not necessarily,

I'm saying that it's bad. It just didn't translate

well for me. Yeah, and again, I feel like if

he had just done his own stuff, it would have

worked a lot better. I do like the fact, though,

that they have Punisher versus Black Widow. That's

kind of awesome. Yeah, and I like how he outsmarts

her and basically uses her Frank is kind of a

step ahead of the Avengers in this and in terms

of all we have to mention why he's yet ahead

is because Wolverine refuses to have his monthly

fight with the Punisher this time around which

is so which can yeah, which let's Go back on

to that for a minute so much better writing than

everybody who contrives the stupidest reasons

for them to fight I mean Wolverine is a murderer.

I mean he is as bad potentially worse than Frank

in some ways at some points in his life and to

have Wolverine constantly take this stupid self

-righteous stance that, well, I'm going to shut

you down because you kill people. Really? That

never made any sense. And him actually turning

his back on the Avengers, A, at first he just

refuses to really help, and then B, he actively

helps Frank, which is another step. It works

so much better than everyone else who writes

the two of them together. So wish and I don't

think it's gonna happen, but I so wish Rucka

would do a Punisher Wolverine team -up type thing

Yeah, and I don't know that Wolverine would actually

work well with him as written by Rucka it's just

as he tells cap some people just deserve to die

and He has no problem with what Frank's doing

because he would probably do the same thing Yeah,

but he's you know Wolverine's not street level

I mean, that's what what Frank is and You know,

I loved that that was a nice touch as well that

the interaction with Each of them even Black

Widow is not big on going after Castle because

she's another one that's killed Yeah, she's got

a lot of red in her ledger. Yeah Thor anyway

Thor Thor they've brought that up. No not less

than three times in the comics. Yeah Even in

the spider -man comes to play. Hey, I don't know

how you can cat cast any kind of shame on me

There's still written your ledger. How would

you even know to say that's better, man? How

would you god damn it? Yeah, anyway, we pointed

out that spider -man has killed a guy or two

Yes, yes, yeah No, no, we don't know the original

has yeah Yeah, well, we were reading the first

appearance of jigsaw in Spider -man punched this

like two -bit dog and then the way he's hitting

the concrete his neck is clearly broken Just

and clearly dead. Yeah and back to this Thor

Thor's interaction with Frank is really interesting

because Thor just doesn't understand him I Disagree

really I don't know like these two have nothing

in common in a lot of ways Although Frank points

out maybe some that they do, but or sorry, Thor

points out some that they do. But maybe both

soldiers kind of. Yeah. I mean, maybe Thor understands

him, but I don't think he necessarily I don't

know. I just don't think he necessarily gets

him completely. No, this was actually one of

my favorite parts of Warzone entirely. He likes

it as well, too, by the way. Yeah. But he completely

understands Frank, because first off, One thing

that's really nice about Thor is that he comes

from a warrior culture, but he also comes from

a warrior culture that's covered in camaraderie

and history and That there are things worth fighting

for and you must have these things in your heart

in order to be a good warrior It's not just being

able to throw a hammer or have good archery skills

You need to know what you are fighting for and

Thor like cannot stand Mercenaries and things

like that for that reason and one of the issues

with Frank Castle He goes like you've been fighting

for so long. You've lost your your heart. Yeah,

you made a war so that you may fight Yeah, you

yeah, you you have done You have made almost

a mockery of what it is to be a warrior at least

in my culture And the thing is he still tries

to cut him some slack because he at least at

least he can understand that mentality He's seen

it before but he wants to show In his eyes, he's

not just like this murderer that needs to be

taken To justice. He feels like you are a warrior.

I can easily see that but you're very misguided

and you need to rethink your philosophy That's

a very introspective thing for and a very philosophical

thing for Thor to bring up As well as well as

the fact that I mean Thor doesn't bring him in

no Thor could have whupped his ass and he did

basically but yeah, I think What thor was doing

there was saying like, okay, listen, I do think

you have like, yeah He does say this at the end.

Like he says something. I do think you have a

sense of honor I do think you actually do care

for uh, rachel And I I think you'll do it yourself

and I think because I think there was a part

that thor goes like I want you to keep your dignity

So I could just grab you by the thighs and just

end this But I think you'd fight us more about

that and just be a real pain in our ass. So just

do it yourself Think that was a very mature thing

to do and I don't think he necessarily sees Frank's

reaction coming. Although I in a way everybody

does but I don't know I mean the reaction from

Frank is he Goes back gets back to town and immediately

starts, you know setting his plan in motion Yeah,

I mean obviously Thor's um, I guess what you

might say giving him the benefit of the doubt

kind of ended there Like yeah, he did come back.

I don't I don't know that it did though because

I mean if you think about it Is it Thor that

plants the seed for Frank to rescue Rachel? Was

he going to do it before Thor talked to him?

That is a really good question. I think That's

a question. You'd have to ask Rucka No, I think

with Rucka. Um at this point. He definitely wanted

Rachel to live Like he already had he already

knew what Rachel what was gonna happen to ritual

in war zone I think within the confines of the

story Frank Castle was just trying to avoid the

Avengers as much as possible Beyond that like

like he's obviously like I think his original

plan which is we need to bug out and reconvene

later that obviously wasn't gonna happen especially

with his final decision on Rachel in the original

series. So basically, he's just following the

last plan he made, which was time for me to leave.

But I think he also understands that the Avengers

are coming after him, especially after Spider

-Man. Ben Wolverine tells him. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

And I mean, yeah, the the other thing to note

here and at this point, too, is, I mean, we get

another great conversation between Captain America

and Wolverine and we see how different Logan

is from Captain America and how much more he

has in common with someone like Frank than he

does Cap or the Avengers. I find that Rucker

writes a really good Wolverine. I mean, he to

be fair, I mean, Yeah, he did write the series.

Yeah, I know. But I'm just saying, in these issues,

he writes them really well with Frank as well.

Well, I guess it goes back to what we said last

episode that rucka doesn't go for the low -hanging

fruit And I think that's what makes this series

so well acclaimed because who was waiting for

the oh, man I bet they're gonna have a big Wolverine

fight before everyone really pounces on him and

it goes down like a champ and it's like well

No, that's not happening. Also. How easy would

it have been to have a fight with him? You know,

he fights Wolverine and oh, you know if it wasn't

for Wolverine's healing factor I'm sure Frank

would have taken him out. I mean how many writers

have written that? I mean or that Wolverine has

to get punked out. So I was like, oh you fell

in a well, you can't you can't fly You have to

get shot in the nuts and then ran over by a steamroller

That was just funny every episode of the X -Men

cartoon involves Wolverine get on down like a

punk at some point Because he's not allowed to

cut anyone Actually, let's talk about my favorite

battle or verses in this which is Punisher versus

Iron Man Because because we're right at that

point anyway, well true but To me this was my

favorite bit of the Rucka writing because I mean

yes Wolverine is true to character. I think that's

really good but think about the subtlety with

how he writes Frank versus Tony which is Tony

thinks he's an absolute fucking joke and is not

worthy of his time and is hugely overconfident

and ends up getting punked out by Frank because

he's so arrogant. I loved that Tony is very much

in his movie version here rather than the comics.

Oh yeah. Tony just laughs it off and says he's

not even Hawkeye and I like that Cap is the one

that takes him a little more seriously and he

says, you know, yeah, well Hawkeye doesn't shoot

to kill. And I mean, Frank does. I mean, he lets

loose on Tony like crazy when they do actually

fight, when it's not just Frank beating the crap

out of them in the dark. And fuck whoever said

that Punisher's no Hawkeye. Hawkeye's a bitch

compared to Punisher. Well, that was yeah, that

was Tony that said that. I mean, yeah. And I

like and again, I like that Captain America.

Yeah, Captain America immediately corrects him,

and Black Widow takes him completely seriously

as well. So does Spider -Man. And Thor, even

in his way, let's be honest, Frank can't hurt

Thor, period. He has nothing in his arsenal that's

going to really even annoy him, to be honest.

But Thor takes him seriously. And yeah, Tony's

the only one that doesn't and he's the one who

pays the biggest price and you know Gets roughed

up and thrown in a closet basically. Sorry is

jam pantry. Yeah That's not where Tony keeps

jam that's just where he keeps his porn That's

his euphemism for it that's actually a good one

I'm gonna have to remember that Yeah, like scarlet

widow just starts like clenching your teeth whenever

she hears I like oh shit. Come on guys Do we

have to call it? I have a jam directory on my

computer. Anyway. Oh, good lord. Alright, so

as far as this whole discussion here about, oh,

he's no Hawkeye, the whole time I was reading

that, I kept hearing Lex Luthor and the Joker

in my mind. You can't even, you know, you can't

even defeat a guy in a Halloween costume. There's

nothing mere about that mortal talking about

Batman. I flashed that as soon as I read that,

I was like, oh, wow, that's so funny. But yeah,

you're right. I mean to be fair to this series

to me really ends the whole like Batman, you

know vigilante Batman's this tough vigilante

something like that man. The Punisher'd make

him his bitch Well, yeah, because that sure kills.

Yeah the Batman cannot fight somebody without

having to hold back from killing. It is a limitation.

And when I'm saying this, I'm not saying this

because of anything the Punisher does. It's because

when you watch the Avengers having to fight him,

it's the same issue. They cannot go all out and

kill him. Overall, I really enjoyed the story.

Like I said last time, I don't know. That ending.

Like alright the ending for anyone who hasn't

read it and if you haven't why the hell are you

listening to this? But anyway, the ending is

Frank fights the Avengers all of them while Logan

smuggles Rachel off Yeah, and I like that. I

like that part continuing the teamwork I like

that and I mean, you know Frank holds his own

for a good maybe 30 seconds or so, which is phenomenally

impressive. Yeah I mean they're there in the

limits of the character like even goes like he's

not going to have so he has no chance to win

He yeah, he has no chance to win. He has no chance

of beating any of these people Yeah He's basically

running down the shot clock to use a sports metaphor

Yeah, that's that's a good way putting and he

gets the rocky ending like I didn't hear no bell.

It's over rocky. It's over Yeah, although he

does stand down. And then in the end, yeah. Oh,

which I actually kind of hated how this ends.

Yeah, he's thrown into a prison underwater. Like,

OK. No, that's not what I mean. Like, I don't

like how this basically comes to an end with

Captain American just saying stand down, Marine,

because why didn't Captain just do it from the

start? We were laughing about that so much when

it first came out. Okay, but anyway, he's you

know imprisoned underwater which all right That's

a little weird having said that you can't just

throw them back into prison. Good god. We've

seen that a hundred times Yeah, you throw them

back into prison. He kills a whole bunch of inmates

and somehow leaves because yeah Because Marvel

prisons are as well guarded as Arkham Asylum,

etc, etc I gotta say I liked the absolute last

page though Particularly we get the end of cap

talking about how Who is it is it Tony? No, it's

spider -man who points out to him that yeah why

doesn't it feel like we want and cap tells them

you know, we didn't and then at The last page

we get the end of that where he just says nobody

gets to feel like they won as in we took him

to war nobody gets to when in and in war nobody

gets to feel like they won and we get this last

page which I did really like of You know, it's

clearly lots Los Angeles. They also have the

Hollywood sign It was a little redundant by the

way to put both of the same panel Whatever it

might be better for a more international audience.

I was gonna say I was gonna say readers are dumb.

So maybe you need no anyway No, I mean and you

know, there's a woman who's being attacked by

you know three thugs and Suddenly all three of

them go down with three gunshots and we get the

last page, your last panel of Rachel trying to

help her up wearing the skull. And I kind of

like that. I like the idea of maybe revisiting

Rachel in a few years. I desperately... I can't

help but think that they put that last page in

there to tease, and I know it's not going to

be called this, but I still think that was one

of Spidey's best puns. I can't help they put

this in there to tease, oh, the Punisherette

coming soon or something like that because...

No, I know but I'm just saying that like for

me I was like wait That's it. Listen, she's got

a mini. Yeah, I love going to get a mini. I hope

so because I love the Punisher and I love, you

know, reading Frank Castle all these years. But

what I what I really love, I would absolutely

love to see somebody else as the Punisher. And

I'm not talking, you know, 2099 or any of the

other like silly or weird alternate reality stuff.

I just like the idea of seeing somebody else

because Rachel was very different. from him as

is pointed out by him. Actually, we may see Rachel

here soon because with this reboot, Frank's going

to be in LA. He could run into her again. Yeah,

I've been badgering them to do something with

her, but not for a while. I've suggested this

to them and I hope they do it that I would love

to see them mention her or mention that there's

somebody else out there. But not use her for

quite some time and just maybe Revisit her when

she's had a good time enough time Maybe you know

have a miniseries. That's sort of Rachel Cole

year one Right and then have the crop inevitable

didn't we kind of already get that though? No,

I mean she's starting her true. Oh Being trained

under him. I'd like to see that first year of

her on her own You mean more like Punisher at

year one essentially, but without using yeah,

but when I hear year one I think more of like

origin story and I'm like we already got her

origin story, but I get what you're saying Her

time with Frank in the exchange that was her

Vietnam Some people might think Iraq was her

Vietnam, but they would be incorrect Overall

I I like the art until the point of there's some

not great panels here And again, I just I just

wish he had just gone with his own style. His

work is good No, and I have to after retread

this tire. I don't really like Frank's beard

and I liked it here more than I did I found it

really weird. I thought the panel where Frank's

twirling his mustache was really odd though,

so Yeah, all you need to do is bust. You're obsessed

with mustache I hate Avengers. I must kill them

all. Dude, that giant beard that Frank has looks

really great when in the last issue when the

Avengers are surrounding him at that theme park

Spiderman gets in his face and he brings a shotgun

to his chest It looks like a hobo is beating

the shit out of Spiderman and it gives me endless

joy Just like a hobo finally had enough of Spiderman's

shit It just blows them right to the thorax.

You've actually shot gun. Yeah Hey Ryan, that

was actually a pretty good like Victorian era

mustache twirling voice voice. Thank you. I Will

be the voice of the Punisher and is inevitable

animated series we mentioned so yeah. Oh, yeah

Oh, I'm going to kill all of those evil mafia

people The mafia people, I guess, are the good

guys in this series. All we wanna do is run some

numbers. We were just trying to raise enough

money to help the orphanage and this guy fucking

comes along starts shooting us. In my hometown

there was actually a guy that literally was kind

of a mafia dude, but he opened up all the libraries

and orphanages in my area. I was gonna say the

numbers they're trying to run are just like orphanages

and being adopted and everything, but you know,

Frank, here's it wrong. They got a guy named

Professor Guido and he's this close to a cure

for cancer. It's like, mama mia, I think I may

have cured it. And then Frank Castle comes in

blowing up the place. Well, he, you know, he's

a professor. He was cooking math to make his

money for it. So we almost make sacrifices. Or

he's a soprano trying to steal cigarettes. What's

a truck? Don't play dumb with me. Yeah, anyway.

Old Simpsons, where have you gone? Where was

I? Oh, right. We're talking about some issues.

Yeah Again, I mean the art is just all over the

place like Frank's a beard is a lot longer Yeah,

which yeah is a little weird Just totally not

tactical at all Yeah, it's funny. I can live

with it being short. But yeah, the longer one

is depicted here is a little odd Although in

his defense he was out in the jungle I sort of

liked that we got a brief Snippet of Frank Castle

world traveler again. It's been a while since

he's left New York. I I was actually when I was

reading this I was I was going man I would really

like to see a miniseries where Frank is just

in South America or even it just in Mexico I

feel like those there could be some really rich

stories there if people really research the culture

and don't just make it ha ha Scarface like no

actually Try and do something related to South

American culture time that he went down to Mexico

under Baron's run where he tripped balls with

the The medicine man and then fired that cannon

that was pretty badass. Yeah. Yeah, exactly Frank

Frank's great Frank finally confronts his greatest

enemy in Mexico Montezuma's revenge The miniseries

we've waited for forever Yeah. And see, for me,

I'm the exact opposite. It'd still be better

than Thunderbolt. Oh, zing. For me, I'm the exact

opposite. I want to see him in more of a North

Pole kind of situation, honestly. I don't know

if it's far fetched enough Santa. Frank's finally

had it up to here with these goddamn polar bears.

Finally. I don't know. I think it's one of those

things where going back, and this has nothing

to do with Warzone really, but going back to

Volume 2, I still love that white, the snow gear.

I really still love that. That's the only reason.

Um, as far as Warzone goes, like Ryan said, the

art is all over the place. The story still flows

from the end of... It's a whole lot quicker than

anything in Ruckus' run. I mean, I'll give him

that. It's interesting that, I mean, Ruckus can

still write a good story that's quick, too. He

can do both. And he does both quite well. So,

I mean, yeah, it's just... If you look at it

in context of is this a continuation of the other

series? I'm actually happy Marvel renumbered

this because yeah, it works so much better as

an epilogue. It just it's not a good continuation.

Does anyone here watch Arrested Development?

Yes. Did you ever see the season four on Netflix?

Yes. Yeah, I went like, you know, this is nice,

but. I couldn't fully get my way through it.

There are flashes of what made the original portion.

Yeah. And I understand that they they had their

problems in production like they couldn't get

everyone to film at the same time That's fine

But it's like, you know what season three ended

in a way that I think I'm okay with just that

I don't need more and I think that's what happened

here with Wars on like there's been shows like

that I mean Futurama ended perfectly with the

devil's hands are idle playthings I didn't know

I mean there were good episodes after but did

we really need it that badly? So, I mean, yeah,

it's it's kind of like Dragon Ball Z. It should

have just ended after so We didn't need this

great Sam and soccer this Majin Vegeta bullshit.

All right, you lost me. Anyway Yeah, but no like

did you know Billy West actually said that Matt

grain or the or whoever how you say his last

name He actually said that he came after they

did the final episode that aired on Comedy Central

Billy West went up to Matt Grain and said, hey,

I really hope you thought I gave it my 100%.

It was an honor to work on this show. And Matt

Grain said, oh, no, we're working to get it back

on the air. Don't you worry. There's things in

the mix. And Billy West said, that's what the

guy told him. And if that's true, go fuck yourself,

Matt Grain. Just let Futurama be well -remembered.

Well, to be fair, I mean, he's dragged the Simpsons

through the dirt for 13 years now, so. You know,

I don't even like the Simpsons anymore actually

we shouldn't even go into that. Oh, yes We'll

be here all night. Let's talk about whether or

not the Punisher is relevant for another three

hours. Well, first off, he's really like Superman,

Spiderman, Batman, but combined. You know, Mike,

you bring us on the show and you realize our

show runs like two plus hours and you expect

us to fit it in. Well, I figured that these guys

would go long. And I'm not going to lie, I got

like so much I want to talk to the two of them

about too that we could probably do an eight

hour podcast. in the future we will do multiple

discussion based episodes where the four of us

can come on and discuss all this shit yeah the

whole point of having you guys even on this was

to give it some sort of credibility since I'm

not I wasn't Wow Wow this has got a rank up there

with like compliments I mean I had to bring some

sort of fanboys on here about the character because

I I like the character in passing. I'm more of

one of those mainstream fans. I'm not die -hard.

I haven't read all this stuff. It's like gas.

You don't want to keep it in. It's like bad gas.

You don't want to keep it in, but you like it

in passing. On that note, we're going to take

a break. What's your problem? You think that's

funny? Oh my god. My grandfather? What the fuck,

Ryan? We'll be back after this. This is 80's

Action Sensation on Schwarzenegger. And I'm here

to tell you about the podcast I produce called

Punisher Body Count. It's the Net's best Punisher

podcast. But don't take my word for it. Listen

to the hosts. Punisher Body Count is a work in

progress. To listen to this great show, you can

find this on iTunes. Just search Punisher Body

Count or come to our website PunisherBodyCount

.com. Don't tell me the skull the corny line

who your name must be bonehead, right? We are

back and we're gonna give final thoughts and

ratings on Warzone For me, I gotta give it three

stars barely passing the art like Ryan said is

all over the place There were times where I didn't

really care for it. The story is good And I liked

it except the ending. I think the issue 16 of

volume 3 ending is so much better than, oh, hey,

here's Punisher at Malay. Yay. No. What about

you, Ryan? I still like the ending. All right.

If you want to call me stupid for this, you're

welcome to. There's way better reasons to, by

the way. But I cannot give this anything below

five simply because Punisher versus the Avengers.

Sorry. Just love this. I mean issue four is one

of my all -time favorite Issues of anything really

I just enjoyed this thoroughly I'm not I like

the Avengers, but I mean even I sort of grow

weary of their sort of sanctimonious Bullshit

ever kill anybody or you know, everyone deserves

fairness and love Yeah, right. I Don't know and

I mean the cover work I adore. I mean, the one

was my background for like a year. I don't know.

I there's a lot of flaws. It is by no means a

perfect comic. But for me, I pretty much have

to. I mean, I just enjoyed the smack down too

much. Jake, what about you? I'm going to go four

stars. Oh, you forgot to take off every hair

of his beard. Yeah, I know yeah I'm gonna go

four stars because Like Ryan said I do like these

fighting the Avengers I thought that It When

it went exactly like it could I mean it's easy

to let Frank win on some technicality or something

but I Think low blow on spider -man. Oh, sorry.

Yeah I think where it really suffered, it was

three main problems. One, like it's already been

said, the art, the art was not up to par. Secondly,

I don't like the Thor Punisher fight. I realize

that there's nothing the Punisher could have

done against Thor. But to me, it seemed odd that

the two of them would just have a beer. And I'm

not really into that scene the way other people

are. And then lastly, your partner, apparently.

Yeah. And lastly, it really does bother me that

Captain could have ended it by calling up Frank

on the phone and being like, hey, Frank, what's

up, man? Hey, I'm going to go and need to order

you to stand down, all right? Thanks, champ.

I don't think he would have done it. I think

it's just because Frank had already been smacked

around. Also, to be fair, on the other hand,

too, Frank, by this point, knows he's done what

he wanted to, which is get Rachel away. Guess

but what I'm saying is whenever spider -man brought

up this whole cockamamie idea about taking on

the Punisher Cap could have been like, all right,

hey man, let me yourself. Yeah Well in term in

terms of in terms of annoying Punisher tropes

we mentioned a bunch of them like every time

the Punisher sees Wolverine they have to fight

for no apparent reason even though they've you

know should not and We've mentioned that rucka

doesn't do the easy thing with him with spider

-man with anything anyone else So, I mean I give

him a lot of leeway, but yeah, he kind of did

the easy thing with caps because that's the release

I and I've never understood it. That's the Stupid

trope that every time they meet caps says like

something to him and Frank's like yes, sir Yeah,

okay. That's cuz Frank Castle at the end of day.

He still is a patriot That doesn't get played

up enough these days, but he is a patriot. He

does believe in America even in max microchip

that we're like We have Valley Forge, Valley

Forge. Yeah. And then the only last thing I want

to add to my rating is I really love what they

did with Rachel at the end. And I want to read

an Alves miniseries. I would love to read a miniseries

with her. I just don't think that the ending

to this storyline, I just the ending of the storyline

could have been. Just that page where Frank goes

to jail Rachel gets away and I would have been

fine the fact that they had to I Guess quote

-unquote attempt to market her for future endeavors

Not remotely what it was, but all right. I know

that wasn't But yeah, well I can see why you

would say that though in all honesty Yeah, I'm

actually going to mark this down as a 3 .5 and

To be fair, that still means I liked it. I liked

it just fine. But upon re -reading this for the

show, I just realized, man, as much as it was

nice to see Rukka... Being able to maybe wrap

some things up. I I couldn't really fall back

on that argument as much anymore No, he wrapped

things up pretty okay in the original series.

This was just a fun Let's try and like from an

editorial standpoint. It was Let's do this Avengers

idea you had that we won't be able to get to

because that was a year three idea so let's just

make this the end as a big going away finale

and Once again, it was very well done and I thought

the fights And the other problem is that I don't

know just having the Frank Castle go up against

superhero superheroes That net that always makes

me uncomfortable as a reader because once again

you are dealing with a human being and If you

have you have to pull something out of your ass

then that's no good But to Ruckus credit he actually

used asymmetrical warfare and understood that

he was going to lose I I loved that but like

I said, I just Maybe this would have worked better

if there was some more lead -up to it. But to

me, it was just like this nice extra thing. It's

not something I would consider critical to the

Rucka Punisher experience. Well, that's going

to do it for us. And join us next time when Ryan

and I talk about Trial of the Punisher, the two

-issue mini -series. For now, I am Tf2 and Mike

with... Ryan the Uniflow. Jake the Trousersnake.

Were you expecting more from me? Geez. Anyway.

No, I was waiting to see which one of them was

going to go first. Oh, well, I guess I'll be

DJ Dane, the main man, LaMorte. So there you

go. We'll catch you next time. Make your great

escape into comics. Ooh, what's a trouser snake?

And the main man always delivers. You just heard

the latest episode of The Pull Bag. GCRN's comic

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