Greg Rucka’s The Punisher Volume 2

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this week's Pullback. Hello and welcome to the

pull bag which has become the Punisher bag This

is episode 46 and we are continuing our coverage

of Greg ruckus the Punisher I am your host if

you and Mike joining me is Ryan the uneven flow

here a Punisher bag Your punishment in a bag

Neither of that none of that made any sense.

Hello Hello Also joining us is the crew from

Punisher body count Jake and Dane. Hey guys Ka

-plaw. At least I get an individual introduction.

You guys get lumped together. I know, right?

You're the Walter Koenig, George Takei of the

show. I'm George. I call tips on George. Fuck

you, Jake. It's funny how you want to be the

gay one. Hey, he was... Good night, everybody.

Hey, wow, hate speech. Two minutes into the fucking

show, we get... It's too bad there's no van in

these issues because then you could refer to

it as the Punisher's Wessel. Wait, wasn't there...

Did I forget to mention the battle van last week?

We don't have one so I could know I could have

sworn he had one No, he doesn't have a battle

van and he has He was a van with guns in it whether

it was his or not. It looked like a battle van

to me Maybe I think it's in this because he goes

he's got he's got a blue van in this but Yeah,

and he's got guns in it. So technically no look

at the battle van has the targeting computer

from star Yes, I understand that it's got a skateboard

with a rocket By Wiley Coyote himself before

he went on and chased a fucking bird. He once

had a gun that shot swords Yeah, okay, but what

I'm saying is there is a reference to the battle

van without it actually being the over -the -top

Dumbass battle van that we all know so volume

2 of Greg Rogers Yes, we join in progress Frank

Castle's recuperation and him starting to kill

people again Yeah, that's the greatest therapy

of all It's true. That's how you just kind of

get back on, you know the bike after you fall

off Yeah, and then it's like this Wow, I still

feel nothing just like riding a bike some quick

gear I Remember when I read this issue originally

and we see the prank in like all white Yeah,

and he's going around and I got to admit in my

head. I was thinking like oh, please let him

have the black skull underneath and sure enough

I gotta say like as much as sometimes it annoys

me how often it's seemingly important like one

of my worst examples of it was when he's bare

-chested in the old war journal issues and he

paints it on using grease and I thought to myself

Isn't that basically a terrible idea because

he uses the skull for something to aim at other

than you know his unprotected skull yeah, and

You're painting it on your chest in when you're

bare -chested. Also, what's really the point?

It seems kind of weird. It's a symbol Yeah, it

means something to them. It's a little thanks

Batman or bail. It's kind of It's kind of weird

that his first thought is, I'm going to grease

myself up with a skull. Hey man, if you have

a fucking brand, you protect that shit. McDonald's

has like 24 lawyers that just do that. Starbucks

has like 30. Fray's got none of that shit. Please

tell me, please tell me that someday if a McDonald's

employee forgets their jacket or vest or shirt

or whatever, they have to like paint on their

chest the M. Yeah. Pretty sweet They go to Malaysia

every month just to close down every whack Donald's

they see Okay, they take their job very seriously

So in the first issue of this Frank has recovered

and Finds out where the exchange is hiding out

and gets a surprise in What we kind of already

knew and that is that Rachel has started offing

them as well Yeah We continue on the second issue

is sort of a polarizing one because I've heard

a lot of people complain about this I liked that

that second issue has a retelling of one of the

old I think it's a bear to be honest. I mean

I I'm on the on one of the polls. I absolutely

fucking love that second issue. It's probably

my favorite issue in this. I love the retelling

of the Baron stuff. Yeah, I actually that was

a two issue story where Mike Baron wrote one

part of it and Anna Sinti wrote one part of it.

Yeah. And that original story was pretty fucking

good. Yeah. And I liked the call that I really

liked seeing the police's perspective on it too.

Mm -hmm. Yeah, I think that uh ruck I had kind

of a Had a really good handle on how Ozzy the

you know veteran I'm sorry to interrupt you on

that one day because Ryan just triggered this

that we saw this from Walter or not Walter, uh,

Morgan Freeman's point of view Yeah, which and

if you remember the original aspirin poison or

storyline the Punisher issue had Punisher's view

on it The daredevil story had daredevils view

on it and now rucka brought the police's perspective

to it I never thought about that until just now

it really Complimented and enhanced that old

story And Rucker really did his homework because

he had the artist copy some of the exact same

panels from that issue, most notably the one

where Daredevil kicks the shit out of Frank in

his stomach. Yep. Yeah, that's awesome. It's

a real Rashomon moment. Yeah, it pretty much

is. You summed it up perfectly, David. That joke.

Thank you. But yeah, what I was saying is you

can throw a Japanese literature joke in. Know

right. It's maybe the one thing Americans might

the one literature reference of Japan that Americans

will get but Besides, I don't know the serialized

Pokemon story. Anyway, uh Ozzy in this flashback

we actually learned why Ozzy does not like the

Punisher because it's weird with certain policemen

because you either have to be like Like bolt

explains it very well half the NYPD wants to

give the Punisher a medal The other half just

doesn't want to see them do it like they does

they just don't want to confront the Punisher

about it Maybe they're kind of ambiguous about

it They just don't want to be a part of his world

and then you have to deal with the stereotype

cop That's like oh I follow things to the letter

of the law and that guy can kind of get old on

you Ozzy's viewpoint is a little bit more nuanced

and is a little bit more practical of why doesn't

like the Punisher which they explain is in the

cyanide pill killer case that frank busted into

the man's apartment and while he was hunting

them down and then daredevil interrupted it but

the thing was the The fact of the matter is that

Frank was in that apartment and so the police

and the lawyers considered the crime scene contaminated

They didn't know whether the Punisher planted

evidence. They don't know how much of it was

the perps They didn't know and that complicated

the case and that's what happens with the Punisher

He does his own thing. He doesn't question whether

his shit helps or hurts the cops He just does

it and the cops have to pick up the pieces and

it messes up their own job and their their own

purpose in life And so I thought that was a very

good explanation from Ozzy Like the guy it was

another example of him tying him into the universe

in a way that actually made sense because usually

and let's you know I love obviously like anyone

else who's a fan. I love Garth Ennis's work on

the Marvel Knights series But his interactions

with the other superheroes, I think even the

biggest Punisher fan would say it's pretty they're

fairly out of character. Yeah. I mean, the other

superheroes, not Frank, the exception being Daredevil,

who he uses really well. Yeah. And I literally

mean uses, in a lot of cases. Well, like, Daredevil

and Punisher has basically turned into a Tom

and Jerry episode at this point, where it's like,

don't you eat that pie! Y 'all, I'm gonna fucking

eat that pie. Don't you chase that mouse! Oh,

I'm gonna kill that fucking mouse. Don't you

murder in cold blood that person. Oh, I'm gonna

do it, Daredevil, try and stop me. I fucking

will, goddammit! Why can't you love your fellow

man? I'm gonna break your fucking knees! Tom

and Jerry, that's the best way I've ever heard

of it being put. I can remember that. Yeah. All

right, so we continue on After that, I mean these

issues it's weird this trade weird This trade

reads really oddly because all of a sudden we

get kind of sidetracked With the Omega effect

event. Yeah, right. Yeah, I mean the Punisher

is hunting the exchange and they come along this

Mention of this, you know thing that daredevil

has that has information and all of the big sort

of crime syndicates and everyone else and so

obviously this is something Frank would want

so he gets involved in this sort of chase for

it and Joining him or getting also getting involved

our spider -man and daredevil who owns it or

has it and I mean Yeah, it's yeah, and it's It

makes sense because I mean it's all the New York

sort of street level guys And so yeah, we go

straight into the Omega effect which bled into

avenging spider -man back into the Punisher and

then lastly into daredevil and yeah, it's a three

-part miniseries and I like it but man it reads

really odd in the middle of a Punisher trade.

Yeah. Yeah, it's also you have to go out of your

way to read the other ones, which I mean, yes,

confession, I read the issues. Oh, I did. I bought

each issue. They were great. What I'm saying

is I didn't read the trade for this episode,

because I know in the trade they stick in. Because

when you say it's a three issue mini, I mean,

it's what the listeners might not know is that.

The issues, the first one takes place in Spider

-Man, and then the second one is in Punisher,

and then the third one's in Daredevil. Yeah,

Avenging Spider -Man number six, Punisher ten?

Yeah, ten. And Daredevil, yeah. Eleven. How did

they handle this in your trade? Did they like

bring in the issues or did they? They put them

all together in order, which was awesome. Another

nice thing they did. Yeah, like they put them

in complete each of the covers as well. So, yeah,

it again, this reads better than the individual

issues and the Omega effect is a lot more coherent

when you read it all together at once. uh things

i liked overall uh a all of the art in this trade

is awesome again marco chichero is amazing yes

uh b the punisher's interaction within the world

again is great uh bolton newsome that was fantastic

and like i said i'm a fan of seeing barron's

uh story Redone from a different perspective.

I thought that worked really well and the lastly

rucka Wade and everybody Really get Frank's interaction

with the others. Well Spider -man makes a ton

of jokes because he is terrified by this complete

psychopath and Matt Murdock just hates him The

best joke that's but the best two jokes that

Spidey does is so I see you've started dating

again. Yeah Also, it should be no one was Punisher

at Tony's trying to figure out what her name

was It should be noted and it's fairly important

to the story that in these issues Particularly

in the Omega effect. He starts working with Rachel

Cole as an equal and gives her You know gives

her a flak jacket with the skull painted on it

You know, I was actually reading these issues

pure and by that I mean I did not Have the Omega

effect crossovers and wow it is an odd read when

Frank just out of nowhere like Calls her behind

a restaurant and starts beating the shit out

of her going your week your week And then I remembered

oh, yeah the Omega effect she messed up there

But without I'm so glad they have that in the

tree. Yes, otherwise. That was yeah a good call

Also, it should be noted that that whole issue

was fantastic, but we'll get to that. Oh, yes.

Yes next week when I do the third volume. Yeah

And again, that's my biggest complaint about

this whole series, is unlike the previous one,

everything moves quick here. Rucka really got

it together with these issues because partially

because he had to and my only real complaint

is just the Omega effect stuff reads really oddly

and disjointed and by the way that's a product

of Rucka's run being cut off at the knees. This

was all supposed to tie in an awful lot more

with Wade's Daredevil but yeah. Well, I think

even Wade's daredevil run like I haven't did

they even mention that's that silly hard drive

anymore I don't think they do they kind of Yeah,

well, that's yeah and a lot of that is because

the hard drive was going to be a lot more important

to Frank But again, this was all cut off the

hard drive would eventually have helped him or

led to him getting his squad of people together

So yeah, that never happened. So because of that,

it makes Omega effect seem even more sort of

out of place. Sure. But having said that, I mean,

it fits in line with the story of him and Rachel

working together. It does. Yeah. It builds their

relationship, which was the smart thing to do.

And it's still good. I mean, this is still a

really good trade and actually improves on that

first one. Yeah. Very much so. I mean, the art,

the story, all of it's just... See, actually,

I thought this one kind of took a step back from

the point. Really? Why? Well, I think it's pretty

much because of the art. Without having Shisheto

consistently throughout there, to me, it really

suffered. I did not like the fill -in artists

at all. That's a fair point. Yeah, there was

a number of them. Yeah, and I should bring this

up for people that are that do that if they bought

the trailer looking to buy it for the art change.

To be fair, what we later learned was that Marco

Shisheto was dealing with some fairly serious

issues with his family. There was some sickness.

I think one of his family members may have died.

And that obviously had an effect on his work.

And Marvel, from what I heard, was good enough

to work with him on that. Yeah. Mean, okay, if

you take out the three arc of the of the Omega

effect, it's mostly him, right? Oh, yeah. I mean

they also have the one on way How far did your

trades go because I read from? The last issue

of the Punisher that appears in here is 1010.

Okay. I read up to 12 for this one. So, okay

No, that's okay Was sort of happy sort of as

a side note to see Michael Lark on this because

I loved Gotham Central It's one of my all -time

favorites series. Yeah, and so anytime he and

rock I get together I'm happy but to be fair

in terms of the artwork of this Punisher series

Doesn't work as well because his style doesn't

match to shadow at all Yeah, it felt more muted

and kind of result and gained ten years and yeah

started getting um it's getting a bit pudgy there

and to be fair part of that is because Rucka

knows lark and they could get him really quickly

because they're friends And so it was easy for

him to ask like hey, can you do this because

my normal artist is going through some stuff

so There is a couple of moments there in the

in the Omega effect stuff where I'm like hey

wait Where'd Frank go? Why is Snake Plissken

in this? Metal Gear references, yay. Wait, that

wasn't an Escape from New York reference? No,

it was a Metal Gear reference. I'm pretty sure

it can be both. I was about to say Snake Plissken.

Snake Plissken is from... Escape from LA, escape

from New York. But he was also called Plissken

in MGS2. Yes, that was the reference. You're

referencing a reference. Yes. But volume 2 I

liked it. I thought the art was even though it's

different artists I didn't really like there

wasn't anything too jarring in the design specifically

to the characters that made me go like wait What

the hell is going on with them? Yeah, sure Frank

is growing his beard out, but Which is I did

not like that they gave him a beard for this

but it's a passage of time because it brings

no i get that it's a passage of time but as soon

as he healed up or whatever he would have shaved

that shit because he gave frank no because frank

knows as a marine and being in combat situations

if he gets into a fist fight Especially a protracted

one. A beard is a fucking liability, okay? If

you ever have to fight one of those guys... No,

no, whenever you fight one of those guys from

Duck Dynasty, just grab a handful of beard, yank

it, and they're fucking down for the count, okay?

At least one of us will fight one of those guys

from Duck Dynasty within five years. It's just...

To be fair though, would you want to be the dude

that in the middle of a fistfight pulled on the

Punisher's beard? That seems like the worst possible

idea. If I do that. The Punisher calls time out

and he says he's going to call his mom. It's

just a bad scene. That's like kicking, that's

like kicking Frank in the gonads and running

away and expecting that things are going to end

really well for you. I'm going to get my GED

and turn my life around. It's not quite. I just

want to see how any of you guys can defend. frank's

beard i mean he's never had one before he's a

clean cut marine he would have shaved it every

day in there he holds military tradition he knows

that it's a liability in a fist fight i want

to know how it do things but he had one There's

plenty of fucking Marines overseas that don't

shave because it's just not a priority Okay,

that don't fuckers Okay, there's a difference

between being in fucking Fallujah and never know

the shit's gonna hit the fan versus I'm in my

safe house where no one knows where I'm at and

I a hundred days No, it's harassed me. I know

we have to shave number two. It's a good disguise

and uh fucking it's not that long he obviously

shaves it on some level like keeps it trim i

i think you're this is going to be one of those

things where you get put up a huge fucking hubba

loo and it's not a huge fucking deal or this

could be one of those times where you're being

retarded i mean maybe this is one of those times

you're being a silly fucking goose jake god damn

basically basically jake wants you both have

points jake wants the punisher to be superman

I like the beard. Are you keeping it? Not in

your life. I think you both have a point. But

yes, it would be a liability. But he is keeping

it really short. That's actually an interesting

And it's always pretty trimmed and neat. My daughter

used to grab handfuls of it and it fucking hurt

even being a little short So, uh, no frank frank

would not have a beard. It's totally out of character

I I don't know how you guys are right frank cqc

is awful against babies Like what if batman just

all of a sudden had a jerry curl He wears a mask

His whole head is covered how is that any how

is that? The eye hole actually that's that brings

up a point too if he's worried about getting

hair pulled wouldn't he be bald completely then

Yeah, he usually has his hair. You know pretty

high and tight. I mean maybe a little bit of

that Guido slick back What what about all the

times he's shown with a ponytail? I eat or take

where we draw the line Huh? I've never seen him

with a ponytail with Goran Parlov. I don't know

what the fuck you're talking about. Somebody

send him a link to ruin his day, please. All

right, every issue of Punisher versus the Marvel

Universe, he has a ponytail. Absolutely, he does.

Droned by Goran Parlov. How many issues of that

are there? Well, Goran Parlov clearly made a

mistake. It was a single trade. Jake, just say,

not my Punisher, jerk off and get it over with.

We want to move on I Think it's a fair point

and I think you know, you definitely can make

the argument Before it it just it didn't bother

me. I mean, I'm okay with it I think to say all

of a sudden had a beard Well, no one would care

because nobody actually reads it Finally you

said So, volume two. Sorry, we're talking about

characters that people have heard of. Yeah, Joseph

Gordon -Levitt did nothing for a Nightwing's

image. Technically, he wasn't Nightwing, but

anyway. What kind of a first name is Robin? I

mean, come on. Is this his middle name? No, wait,

was it? No, it was his first name. She said,

why don't you use your given name? We're going

to break. We'll come back with final thoughts.

Battle van. Pantrick super silicon projector.

Key on my signal and launch. So we are back after

that very weird ending to the discussion on Greg

Rucka's Punisher Volume 2. Greg Rucka's beard.

Oh god. Don't. Don't provoke him, dude. Just

don't. Alright, Jake, what is your rating for

Volume 2? You know, I gotta go lower on this

one. It's I Think I'm gonna give it a three and

a half Actually, no, I'm gonna give it just a

straight three. I think officially a three The

Omega I didn't really like the Omega effect I

felt that rucka was kind of bullied into doing

one of those mega crossovers I mean, as mega

as they can get for a three issue cross. Yeah,

it would have tied in like this would have been

a recurring sort of theme and a recurring thing.

But of course, the end of the run. Yeah. But

it's especially distracting when you're on this

big exchange thing and you're getting the team

up with Rachel and Frank and they're just hitting

the chemistry with them and then they have to

get sidetracked with it. then switching out the

artist really hurt the book and Yeah, I'm gonna

say it. I got to take a star off for the beard

link So yeah, that's my that's my rating three

out of five Jake or not Jake or a thing Damn

it. Oh Yeah. Yeah. Anyway Well, um You're going

to add a star for the beard. No, no, I'm not.

What I'm going to do is I'm going to keep my

score at around four because I did feel you guys

brought up a lot of things to my attention, like

the somewhat janky pacing due to the crossover

that came pretty much out of nowhere. I mean,

they literally had soldiers burst through a window

in the middle of a storyline talking about we

need to get the fucking drive. And that was out

of nowhere unless you wouldn't understand that

unless you were reading Daredevil, which I was

at the time. But there were other elements here

that we didn't discuss, like the exchange actually

thinks really well about how to deal with the

Punisher. I mean, obviously they're going to

fail, but their attempts on his life actually

seem to, you know, have... You mean the Punisher

won't die in the next issue? Yeah, but... There

are actually things that goes like, yeah, you

know what? I get your thinking on that. And it

also had some really good character interactions

between Ozzy and Bolt. You start understanding

them better as characters. We also see the two

antagonists, Christian and Stephanie, come together

and you learn a little bit more about them. I

enjoyed that kind of description and are not

just description, the dialogue and the way it

was. And I felt it was paced out a lot better.

I felt like I was getting a lot more bang for

my buck. So I was going to give it four stars.

But then Jake totally turned me around on the

beard thing. I'm going to subtract a star for

every whisker. So unfortunately, one negative

one hundred fifty seven stars. Sorry. Actually,

you know, we kind of missed talking out about

Stephanie because. They totally made the villain

Baroness from Jojo. Oh, absolutely. Which is

awesome because there's no villain hotter than

the Baroness. Oh, absolutely. Everyone who grew

up in the 80s knows that. Yeah. The sad thing

is, every time I saw the two of them bickering,

I thought it was Shane and Stephanie McMahon.

Wow. Oh, my. Love those WWE jokes. Can we mention

could we mention to that the GI Joe movie taking

the Baroness out of her outfit that being the

first thing the live -action film did huge mistake

yeah, I mean of all the sins like the movie being

terrible but but hilarious My favorite thing

by the way is the icebergs that sink at the end

of the movie. That is fantastic. I Need to tell

you about what happened with my father when he

watched the GI Joe sequel. I think you'll really

enjoy it Well, I remember screaming I remember

screaming at the screen saying like ice won't

sink you dumbasses That was the least of the

movie's problems. But yeah To be fair, it was

pretty much the theater was empty. So we totally

mystery science theater at it, which was great.

Yeah, geez Ryan, what do you give volume to eight

mystery science theaters? Oh Yeah, oddly enough.

I'm actually going to raise mine. I went three

and a half for the first volume I'm gonna go

up to four for this just because of something

that we talked about and that is Everybody here.

I think Mike brought it up to the interaction

is really spot -on between Frank and Rachel and

Dane just meant or sorry Jake just mentioned

one of them just mentions. Oh man now I'm doing

it too the All of the interactions be it bolts

and or sorry Ozzie and Newsome Whoever the hell

and have damn it Having trouble with names today

next thing. You know, you're gonna call Morgan

Freeman and Brad Pitt Morgan Freeman and Brad

Pitt. Thank you Their interaction is really good

I again, I'm one of the people I loved seeing

Baron stuff from another viewpoint and by the

way I mean, I know I've picked on some of the

older uh runs in the past and in the earlier

shows it kind of shows how some of those stories

particularly uh barrens hold up really well over

time. I mean, Mike mentioned it in the first

one. One of the reasons I recommended to him

to read Rucka's run is it's really accessible,

A, to a new reader, and B, it actually has a

finish. I could have given him some of Baron's

stuff, but it would have taken him forever to

collect all the trades. And one thing Baron didn't

necessarily have is an all -encompassing storyline

that fits in one trade, because, I mean, he wrote

for years. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Now, see, when I

got to the page of the Punisher daredevil kicking

him in the gut, even though in the earlier episodes

of Punisher Month I kind of complained about

the old Punisher, oh, his belt is part of the

skull designed for the t -shirt, even though

I complained about that, I was really surprised

at how well that looked in this style in, you

know, in this run. I thought that was really

cool. Something we never brought up to when we

talk about the costuming. I mentioned it in the

one panel, but I mean, the Punisher in his classic

outfit in this run, even though they don't show

it often, it looks really good. It does. It's

almost it's also that's that awesome. She's shadow

pencils Yeah, it's it's almost a shame that they

didn't use that look for them Although I like

the idea of you know, every new artist gets kind

of their own take on a character Because I feel

that's better than you know, Superman looks exactly

the same as he did in 66 Yes, I uh, well for

me with the styling, with specifically to the

Punisher stuff, it's... I don't know if it's

my influence or theirs, probably more so me associating

with this, but 2004 film. I mean, that white

doesn't like... The whole time I was reading

the the adventure up at the cabin, I was like,

it's Punisher in Donkey Kong Country! Is the

way the background for the snow is done because

there was a snow level in that old Donkey Kong

game and that was just awesome. Have we mentioned

that you pick up on some really weird shit from

time to time? Yeah, I was going Donkey Kong.

Yes. Yeah. I mean, I got the reference right

away. It just wasn't that funny. It was no catching

a train, really. I mean, yeah, I hope we can

repeat that. No, we should never repeat that.

Regardless of the pull bag is not responsible

for Punisher body counts views on the beard I'm

gonna raise it to almost perfect four and a half

stars just for the beard Even it out go full

measure go every whisker so it ends up 157 stars

That would be the unofficial rating yes Alright,

so that's gonna do it for this episode Jonas

next time in episode 47 when we'll be talking

about ruckus volume 3 And for now, I am TF2 and

Mike with... Ryan the Uneven Flow. Dane the main

man, Lamont. And Jacob... Wildman? No, no, no.

No, I got this one. Jacob22. Jake the Trousersnake

Williams. Oh! Perfect for radio. Perfect. Your

greatest game in the comics we will catch you

next time. Ooh, what's a trouser snake? Hello

pop culture connoisseurs Do you gain a dark sense

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then that's best podcast concerning all things

Frank Castle I'm Dane Lamont. My co -host Jake

Williams and I cover the good, the bad, and the

hilarious. I'm the Punisher of comics, movies,

and news. Do you like chummy co -host banter?

We got that. You need to get - No, you need to

fucking pay attention to the fucking movie. You

want kick -ass guest interviews? How about Mike

Baron and Tom Jane? No, I like a little bit of

grit in my cigars. You want carefully considered

in -depth analysis? I mean, yeah, just one best

picture at the Oscars yesterday. I mean, it's

no Terminator. Good luck with that. Punish Your

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