The Punisher: Welcome Back Frank Review

Welcome to The Pullback. Join us as we dig out

our latest comics and discuss them with a rotating

panel of the GCRN crew. So sit back and enjoy

this week's Pullback. Hello and welcome to the

pull bag which is still the Punisher bag here

in Punisher month This is episode 44. I am your

host TFJR Mike joining me is Ryan the uneven

flow. Hello. How are you? I'm fine. It feels

like it's been ages It has it has and of course,

we also welcome back the Punisher body count

crew of Jake and Dane. Hey guys. Hey, man Howdy

partner The interesting thing between last week

and this week is Jake's connection hasn't cut

out at all I thought you're gonna mention the

fact that they both had time to sleep it off

Well, no Dane still hiding the weed we never

sleep it off All right, so we're here to talk

about the epic The Punisher, Welcome Back Frank,

written by Garth Ennis. How are you calling it

epic? This is your first time ever reading it.

You can call it epic. I guess, but it just seems

a little weird. I don't know. Pencils by Steve

Dillon and Inks by Palmiotti. I forget his first

name, but Dane's in love with this guy. Don't

you have a man crush on Jimmy Palmiotti? No,

I really enjoy his work and his wife, Amanda

Conner, is really cool. Are you related to him

because y 'all are both Italian? Just, uh, you

know what? I got to tell you, it helps, but no,

no, I like, I thought it would work like Jonah

Hex, his independent works. Just awesome. And

he also works with another guy. I can't believe

I forgot his name. Let me see if I can do a quick.

What if I write Jimmy Palmiotti? Alright, well,

while Dane's doing his research. Internet searches,

fun. I guess I can call it epic because I always

hear people saying such wonderful things about

it. So, I mean, you know, that's like someone

saying, how can you call Breaking Bad epic? It's

just three boring seasons and two awesome ones.

Look, I mean, you could call Welcome Back Frank

epic because by anyone's opinion who counts,

it's The greatest Punisher story of all time

period hands down Well, here's here's what's

really important about that because it is a really

it's often in like any bloggers top 10 list But

people forget that before this The Punisher had

been in the toilet for years. Yeah, I was literally

dead at one point. Well, no, it was back Yeah,

but the two story arcs before this one Frank

was literally the angel of death. Oh yeah, one

of those of course being the excellent Revelation

that everybody loves. Oh yeah, with the Wolverine

crossover? Yep. So what's worse, Revelation or

um... Oh, Revelation by far. Revelation is...

No, no, no, what I was gonna ask was... What's

worse, Revelation or the Clone Saga? Well, Clone

Saga just breaks you down over how long it is.

Here's the thing. Clone Saga is like getting

whipped while you're doing hard labor in Alabama.

Cuz you were framed for robbing a burger stand

but the the fucking revelations is just like

someone just coming up to you and just like Throwing

you an alley and just punching you for like five

fucking minutes. You don't know the guy Until

we finally get our Matt fraction Howard shaken

Punisher comic this might it might be the worst

like Punisher book. Yeah It's Alabama and all

I can think of is run forest run Away from Punisher

revelation. That's right. Anywho. Yeah, that's

a bit of background for told me life was like

a box of bullets You never know what you're gonna

get but you're probably gonna get bullets Alright,

so any other initial thoughts on welcome back

Frank before we dive into it guys. It came out

in the year 2000 The comics code was a little

bit different I mean this was the precursor to

Max and a lot of the R rated stuff we have now

in a lot of ways It still would have existed,

but I mean that's in Marvel officially kicked

Yeah comics code to the curb so did yes And this

was slowly kind of like the leaning towards that

originally Well, what I'm saying is they already

kicked them to the curb by this point. None of

these are comics code approved. Well, like these

were, I believe. Marvel Knights was still comics

code approved, but they were a little bit darker.

Marvel Knights was actually showing just how

pointless the comics code was becoming. Like,

oh, wow, they're swearing and you know what they're

saying, but it's just done with that at sign

and the pound sign and dollar sign. Right. It's

like dude, there's there's rape in these comics.

There's well, I mean, I suppose they're ripping

a woman apart I mean even when we interviewed

Mike Baron on the show like he was saying that

the comics go never harassed him Yeah, it's doing

some pretty You know, I'm not gonna say hardcore

he was doing some edgy stuff even back in the

80s. Yeah, it was But the comics code was all

we got to remember what the comics code was the

comics code was comics coming in and saying Because

the government was starting to get mad there

were all these parent groups that were getting

mad and they wanted something done about these

horrific comics So they said hey, we'll create

our own board We'll create our own code and we'll

police ourselves That was the only way they could

keep any kind of control over their industry

And it also of course brought in the age of superheroes

because superheroes were an unoffensive and they

didn't kill So that made it great for comics

code authority But here's the thing of course

comic code authority if the people in charge

of the board want that shit to not lose power

It'll lose power and that's where we are with

Punisher 2000 Okay, so there but back to this

book, yeah, well anyway, I mean I'm not gonna,

I'm not planning anyway on doing this panel by

panel. I think pretty much everybody - Oh no,

this is - I'm just saying pretty much - There's

no way, we are so skipping - Pretty much anybody

who's interested in the characters probably already

read this before, and if you haven't, for the

love of God, go pick up a copy. Yeah. Yeah, stop

this podcast, get off your ass, go to your comic

shop and find it. And if you're one of those,

if you're one of those people who's kind of OCD

like Mike, I mean, granted there is a bunch of

- uh continuity before this but in a way this

almost starts its brand new continuity you really

don't need to have anything else under your belt

before you read i'm only really a stickler for

cotton like if it's in a comic run i like like

this is the first 12 issues i'm not gonna start

at issue 13 yeah sure and then they have to find

out what's of course with batman i did that but

anyway that's a different story all right so

we're gonna take a quick break to come back and

get into Welcome Back Frank after this. Okay,

so in welcoming back Frank with this being my

very first reading of it I found an interesting

reading and this is introduction in the trade.

Yeah Because he wrote it a year after yeah, and

he's right. It's Entertainment damn it get over

it people and I think this is the one of the

reasons why by 2000 the comics code was gone

Because to be fair at the time there was probably

more well not probably there was there was more

uproar over the fact that Marvel was employing

the guy who had written preacher than really

the content of the Punisher books Yeah, I still

distinctly remember Wizard back then had just

had like letter after letter for like months

of people usually religious people Just to be

honest about it sure complaining that they were

covering something written by the guy who had

produced Preacher and that's where most of the

sort of controversy ended up coming from yeah

That's awesome because as a Christian the last

thing I want to see in my mass murder comics

is an atheist writing them I mean, come on There's

there's a line in that we just should not cross

as a society. Yeah, I believe it Ryan. I believe

it No, I know. To be fair, Wizard got some weird

letters, the all -time worst being the guy who

defended all the sites covering the, I can't

remember her name now, the actress from Harry

Potter from well before she was 18. That was

kind of creepy. Thanks for posting that one,

Wizard. Always imagine just the letters pages

of wizard to be just a freak show Pretty much

Speaking of freak shows in the early panels of

this No, I mean, I mean Frank's first line in

this too is and get a haircut, which I always

enjoyed That's our introduction to the main character

The throwback to is a conservative roots. Yeah

And I mean, I loved the bit with the first Drug

dealer too as he's you know talking about now

also in a way It's also classic because what

gun does he have to the hippies throat? He's

got his Uzi. Yeah, that's total classic Punisher.

Yeah, I love that too I'm sitting on enough product

to set us up for the rest of our lives All you

have to do is drive down here and pick me up.

I have to go now Yeah Quite literally and then

you know, it's just begged for his life Yeah,

he was just saying I'm just a user and To make

a phone call yeah, and this was real economical

in this first issue and I think they He doesn't

get enough credit just for the first issue alone

because it showed just in those three pages a

Frank is very efficient at what he does be Frank

has rules. He's not gonna kill people that aren't

being violent criminals and uh like he doesn't

go after people smoking pot he doesn't go after

jaywalkers you have to be a violent criminal

and and uh b he doesn't give second chances uh

and that's what he shows at the end snapping

that dude's neck uh so i gotta say i don't like

and this isn't a mark against the art overall

but i don't like the design of the skull because

Part of it The teeth of it the bandoliers. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, that's what it's like. That's what

it's that's classic That's supposed to be a throwback

to asm129 Yeah, okay. Well asm asm129 looks better

than this does I think and it's thought just

to have the guy wear pants instead of those tights

and so like okay, we'll give you the only reason

why bring it up is because the whole time I was

reading this entire 12 issue series I kept thinking,

wow, that's the Punisher utility belt. Well,

it is. I mean, I know, but I just I kept flashing

to Batman because Batman has that journey. Batman

does not have the copyright on utility belts.

I mean, I think the US Army beat him to that.

I mean, also, to be fair, Punisher's utility

belt is filled with the same thing. More ammunition.

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, that's true. It's not

really a utility belt. It's more like, I need

to carry more bullets so I can kill more people.

It's a tactical belt. Yeah. And those teeth,

I remember in Remender's run, he actually pulled

out two of them and they just turned into nunchucks.

And I thought, holy shit, how come no one's thought

of this before? Remender, oh my god, Remender

totally tried to turn. Punisher into Batman because

he had that fucking hand glider with the skull

He had the yeah crotch rocket with the skull

and she yelled. Yeah Whenever he uses this shit

Just as a reader, I'm sure many other Punisher

readers notice, because Punisher is a very practical

guy and he does use the skull's intimidation,

but then you have to imagine him sitting in a

basement with some spray cans and some throat

stains and going like, time to put a fucking

skull on this hang glider, gonna totally freak

out some birds, motherfuckers. Take out that

fucking Italian bird mafia while I'm at it. No

one cares, dude. Like, he doesn't need to copyright

everything. He does not fire small skulls out

of his gun. If they wanted to do an actual...

At least they didn't give him a gun that shoots

knives. Or, sorry, swords. No, wait. It's a gun

that shoots... I think it was a gun that shoots

knives. Yeah. Yeah, either knives or swords.

Either way, it was crap. Thanks, Matt. What is

that from? That Fraction's War Journal. Oh, yeah,

it was when one of Hulk's fucking armies came

down from space and like I said Oh, I'm gonna

use a gun that shoots knives. Isn't this nifty?

It's all it basically turned into a fucking Chuck

Norris joke on the internet It was like look

at this fucking wacky scene. You know, I will

not be buying this Punisher comic but man check

out this JPEG I posted Talk about talk about

a sidekick. Yeah Back to the good comic. Let's

talk about the cast of characters around Frank,

because another interesting thing about The Punisher

and Welcome Back Frank is they balance... This

is a much quieter Punisher. I mean, yes, he does

have inner narration, but it's much more practical

It doesn't have this wide and wacky cast of characters

that he had in these 70s 80s even 90s He does

have the cop soap that he uses that is ironically

the only man for a little bit anyway the only

man of the Punisher Squad that's supposed to

bring in the Punisher and you also get to see

a lot of people getting interviewed How they

feel about the Punisher almost in a sort of Frank

Miller's the Dark Knight returns kind of way,

but kind of poking fun at it Yeah Yeah, but also

have You also have the roommates Yeah, why can't

we and I know we talked about this when we discussed

the movie adaptation last episode But you have

the spacker Dave. Who's this? I don't know making

fun of all those people who get tattoos and piercings.

And then you have Joan, who's nothing like her

counterpart in the movie. She's just this really

introverted, you know, shy girl. Yeah, almost

looks like she's somewhere between 14 and 17.

She doesn't even look like a 20 -something person

I didn't see that. I thought she's just short

and small I think she could actually be two or

three inches taller if she sat up straight, but

that's not her character Yeah, it's supposed

to be sort of mousey. Yes the description literally

then you have mr. Bumpo who looks like Hitler

who let himself go That's actually a really good

way of putting it And I know I violated God's

law, but I don't know who else has that style.

You did, but I forgive you. Yeah, I think I guess

this is just one of those things where it's like

European writer. It's like, what was funny in

Europe? Oh, Americans are fat. OK, I got to use

that here. Oh, my God. Fuck yeah. Americans are

fat. That is our knock knock joke. This. Got

a fork that in and on the opposite side. I mean

we covered the movie adaption basically the new

cheese in a lot of way or what the Saints were

kind of modeled after only they're a Lot more

fleshed out than the Saints really were Yeah,

and we also the difference the difference is

they had 12 issues to flesh them out Whereas

you know a two -hour movie you can't also the

movie, you know wasn't written all that Well

tends to be a different but anyway on the other

hand I mean we also get Harry hack is in here

along with two other assassins who Frank dispatches

easily That was enjoyable by the way And of course,

most famously, this is the first appearance of

the Russian, a speaking character who is quite

a bit different than his counterpart. And I would

also add in terms of bad guys in a lot of ways

to the Punisher. in this, although not really

a bad guy. We also get Matt Burdock, better known

as Daredevil, in a fantastic scene. One of my

all -time favorite Punisher scenes. I loved every

moment of it. Daredevil's realization, what kind

of a choice is that? Well, it's Frank's choice

he gives him. If you don't shoot, you've got

a death on your conscience. Death you could have

prevented. If you do shoot, you're a killer.

I can do this, by the way, word for word, without

opening the book. Oh, yeah, and there devil asks

him, you know, what choice is that and Frank

simply replies? It's the one I make every time

I pull the trigger You know every time Ennis

brings in a Marvel character into his Punisher

run He kind of shits all over them and he kind

of does that with with daredevil But you can

actually tell that there's at least some respect

for the character. He tried at least with daredevil

like spider -man and wolverine especially ah

lordy did he shit on wolverine multiple times

yeah and at least with daredevil you're right

there's that respect and not only that but in

a lot of ways he's probably treated the closest

to the actual version of daredevil i mean you

could actually see this happening with You know

this same daredevil you read now be it mark wade

or whoever's writing future and it's a really

well done scene that Amazingly puts together

like all of the differences at once between the

Punisher and every other Marvel hero I mean it

displays everything what one thing is that? Oh

goodness, man I still remember daredevil fans

putting up such a shit fit about that because

they just start brown Well, he would know that

there's no firing pin because his super senses

would know that that gun is point two ounces

lighter than it should be and so because Because

daredevil such a gun expert. Yeah, that's what

I was gonna say. He knows nothing about these

things He doesn't use them. I mean he wouldn't

know and the other issue is he's probably gee.

I don't know a little distracted Oh, yeah. And

doesn't Frank have a bunch of like ultrasonic

shit going off? Isn't that how he? Yeah. My assumption

is, yeah, he's he's shut them off at this point,

but it's probably still messed with his senses.

And then, yeah, I mean, he's distracted by the

fact that Frank's a talking to him, be about

to murder one of his clients. Right. Daredevil

fans are just bitches. I want to go back a minute,

and I know we're not doing panel by panel here

for this because it's such a large story, but

the whole time I was reading this, I'm like,

why do we need anything with these three villain

characters? And Ryan's going to kill me for this

analogy. Wait, hold on. Before you say which

three villains, are you talking about the three

Punisher copies? Yes. Okay. Yes, I'm talking

about the axe murderer the the the court of Owl

looking guy and then Luke Cage on steroids. I

think you mean elite father Rinaldo and Yeah,

it's payback. It's mr. Payback. It's just elite.

There's no mister, but anyway, yeah These three

villains throughout until until until I got to

the payoff of why they were even there. I'm thinking,

holy crap, when is Stabler and Benson gonna go

arrest these bastards? Oh yeah, yeah. All three

of these villains, it felt like three different

Law and Order Special Victims Units episodes

to me. It just did. I'm sorry, that's the only

really bad thing I don't like about this story.

Really? You think Stabler would go after a guy

that's called Elite? Yes, he would. Stabler is

the Punisher. I don't know what... No, Stabler,

I think... The actor that plays him, he needs

to play the next Punisher. He would make a -

Maloney is the play - I can see that, yeah. But

anyway, no, I think that those characters are

important because - They become important. No,

they're important from the start because - No,

they're important the entire time, yeah. Because,

okay, here's the thing. When Innocent writes

Punisher, it's a thesis, okay? And what these

characters show is they're going after - Crime

the way they see it right and maybe it's a little

harder to see it in the case of elite But yeah

what what they end up doing it's showing that

no this this is not the stuff that the Punisher

cares about and he actually hates people that

do that kind of stuff and that's why they you

know Don't and I understand that and I and I

like that about it at the I like the payoff I

just don't like how long it takes to get to the

payoff, but they're like a seaside story Anyway,

like if you don't like it, you can skip through

it But every time you watched Frazier, did you

not want to see Niles crane pick up a pistol

and start offing people? he's uh... and also

okay dot that he hated his he's such a pussy

he would never do that only if the deepest pages

of my diary there in the end they're necessary

in a number of ways i mean the other ways i'm

not saying it's unnecessary i'm just saying that

i wish to pay off so i can make my point uh...

so the other issue here is like It offers a statement

in a lot of ways on the Punisher and what he

does. It's not just about them. It's their versions

of him in a lot of ways and they are also what

he theoretically could inspire. The other half

of this too is the idea of whether or not the

Punisher thinks he's the only person who can

do this. And to a certain extent, there is that.

I mean, he has a right. I mean, I don't necessarily

understand what his problem is with Father Rinaldo

slash the Axeman, for example. I mean, technically,

he did kill people. Frank would. And so in the

name of God, he thinks he's doing it in the name

of God. Yeah. I mean, Frank doesn't do that.

He's a very secular killer. That's fine, but

I mean there's still the question of whether

or not if part of it is and they hit on this

a little more in the sequel of Whether or not

like Frank is just considers himself the only

person who can take this on I mean he has the

line in the second one of you know What makes

you think I feel bad about what I or sorry can't

sleep at night. Oh, yeah I sleep because of what

he does. Well, yeah, he he doesn't he's And I

think in a certain way, he just sees himself

as the only person who can do this mission. Right.

Absolutely. A big thing. And Jake and I have

discussed this on the show. One of the things

that really attracts people to The Punisher in

general is just this idea of the strong individual

who does what society cannot do. It's not just

male bravado, it's being able to stand up for

real principles as an individual and not having

to rely on other people. It's almost like Anne

Rindian in a way, except with all the bullshit

architecture and sociopath -ness. I don't know

if it's anything like Ayn Rand, but let me put

it to you this way. This is why The Punisher

works, and I know this is slightly off topic

with this, but we have a listener that I'm friends

with on Facebook. And this horrific crime happened

the other day where these two, um, suspects,

you know, killed a guy, uh, an old world war

two veteran. And allegedly this was caught on

tape and the guy was just like, fucking. They

don't get a trial. No eighth amendment. Just

fucking kill them, rip out their toenails, fucking

do it right now. You know? And I think people

want. They have this strong sense of justice

and it just pisses them the fuck off when people

get off on technicalities. Oh, because I didn't

read you your Miranda rights before I put the

handcuffs on or the chief forgot to cross his

T and dot his eyes and some highfalutin Harvard

lawyer gets them off and people get pissed. They

want to see justice happen and Frank bypasses

all that or OJ goes free. Oh, sorry. Was trying

to keep it nonpartisan but I Mean, yeah, so I

mean this stuff happens and people really want

to see justice happen and Frank's able to do

it and it eases our cognitive dissonance Because

Frank never gets it wrong and that's and that's

a bit of like why I think these care the vigilante

squad characters need to exist I think they They

are a necessary thing. And not only that, I mean,

let's be honest here, just for a second, flat

out, say it. It also makes, like, the ending

of this book a whole lot better. Yeah, it does.

It's a really satisfying ending. Just the single

words, like, my god, man, isn't this what you've

always wanted? No. No is a big word in the NSCon,

especially under Marvel Knights. That said a

lot. I don't know, like it's obviously purposeful,

but whatever. I mean, because I think if Ennis

is supposed to be like, if you were supposed

to describe the Punisher in one word, what would

it be? Ennis would just say no. It's not he's

refusing to answer the question. It's that's

what the Punisher is. The Punisher is no, no

more of your bullshit. You are going to stop

existing. No, no. Yeah, I guess none of these

criminals better call Saul. The only lawyer who

might be able to save them for a few minutes

as Murdoch and even he fails in this yeah Murdoch's

just like fuck man. Maybe we can send you to

Florida Punisher would never go there. Am I right

guys? Well, he does but anyway, so I mean in

terms of the book I mentioned like the daredevil

scene It's also followed by another personal

all -time favorite scenes and that is the Punisher

in the zoo Oh, yeah. Absolute classic. Oh, God.

And I mean, everybody and their brother has seen

the picture of him punching a polar bear, which

is amazing, by the way. It also leads by the

way to the fantastic scene with ma talking about

like so and one of the idiots Who is it? I think

it's cousin Steve who says something like, you

know, you want or somebody who says yeah It wants

me to kill or you want us to kill the bear ma?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. No the punisher you damn wit

Yep. Fun fact Marvel immediately lost sponsorship

from Coca -Cola when that issue aired Because

they Because the guy thought she wanted him to

kill a polar bear they lost sponsor I think it's

more of the Punisher punching a polar bear, which

is which is fantastic But yeah, the whole zoo

thing we ever use those at Christmas time. So

I get a question Wait, were you just joking Dana?

Did that literally happen? No, it didn't fucking

what why would Marvel be spot? I guess they have

ads but like coke just goes like how dare you

Can't believe this ended up being a quest now.

Anyway, I mean the whole zoo scene is the Punisher

kind of at his best Improvise Asian dangerous

Yeah It's a future generations are gonna read

this comic book and be like what the fuck's a

polar bear? Yeah Way to bring down Jake are you

gonna be reviewing an inconvenient truth for

the next discharge papers? Maybe good. I can't

wait to see your slideshow So I mean so I mean

really like this book is just filled with scene

after scene I mean the Punisher's use of the

60 in this on the streets of New York and as

he says was it the song from Sorry, the lullaby

come all the way to New York City talking about

like using the 60 and nom also You got him busting

out of the back of a van with a flamethrower,

which is his favorite scene of the whole thing.

Pretty metal. Actually, you know why Punisher

really works in this book? And I've said this

on Body Count that the reason why Ennis was such

a great choice for the Punisher was that look

at his work in Preacher and look at some of his

works in general. You know, he's a very dark

humor writer. Especially in preacher he created

this world of a moral Fuckers who just love to

go around fuck people in the ass in an alley

and stick a gerbil up it He has these like six

psychotic stuff that you would only see in the

Darkest corners of the internet and he puts Frank

Castle in that world and it's like a fucking

kid in a candy store Yeah, he makes characters.

It's satisfying to watch him off and I mean to

do like go further into the preacher analysis

I mean, let's be honest and Ennis has said this

and admitted it before the killer saints is the

Punisher. Yeah, I mean he Is very much and like

Ennis has gone on record and said like yeah,

that was kind of his first attempt writing the

Punisher was that character and They're remarkably

similar in a lot of ways They never run out of

ammo and they always kill what they hit yeah

exactly, but another thing that makes them a

lot like the killer of Saints and what and it's

really Rails into in what you might consider

a decompressed story. This is 12 issues for one

story, but in every issue Frank is killing someone

I understand there's always like a fight in most

superhero comics But Frank never stops fucking

killing even when he is shot up and on an operating

table He still manages to murder like two people.

Yeah, I love Greg Rucker, but he could he could

have studied a little bit Yeah, I mean Yeah,

and I mean Ennis is able to add context to it

too, which is the really impressive I mean anybody

can write like a comic where a whole bunch of

guys die and this was able to do that and Yet

like just have context everybody. I mean the

Russian is set up really quickly but He set up

really well and when they fight it's believable

that the you know this guy could smack Frank

around although of course Frank still gets the

best of him Sure, but through smarts. That's

the other thing that and it's put down a lot

of people don't like the Punisher because he's

just this guy with guns He's a dumb guy with

a gun in a lot of people's minds. Yeah, but the

guy Has two really good things on his side one

is his intelligence and the other is his rep

His rep is his superpower. Basically people hear

about the Punisher like we were reading the superior

foes of spider -man and uh That's a book where

that has a speedster. It has the shocker guy

on it It has a guy that has boomerangs that could

kill you with a flick of his wrist Yeah, it's

got the two henchmen from venture brothers. Yeah,

it has literally a woman who's like a moth or

some shit And they and they are all terrified

of one like normal human being Yeah, I mean there's

one guy that literally uses his super speed to

run away It's like no that asshole could have

like run his hand through the Punisher's heart

and it's like no fuck it Fuck it. I'm just leaving.

I'm gonna grab my happy meal and leave And that's

the kid. That's the kind of guy he is even in

this world of superpowered people It's the kind

of guy and us wrote too. I mean we have that

early scene in the In the morgue. Yeah, and as

Frank says the first thing they all do is for

his freeze Yeah, and then they often aim for

the skull like that's another thing that um people

forget is that skull is actually padded and For

summer and they've and this is actually true

people do aim for center mass and the skull actually

does distract people in the comics Um, but the

other thing is that in this comic In previous

comics when the Punisher showed up like even

as a guest star in like spider -man or daredevil

They almost saw the Punisher like as some asshole

distraction and it's like, oh man, I can't believe

he's here He's gonna make everything worse But

after Ennis now they see the Punisher and they

even the heroes shit their pants because they

understand the force of nature That's coming

on to the scene. Well, they saw it too in another

issue of it was superior team up And like even

Doc Ock is wary of him and the Punisher actually

gets the best of the doctor octopus spider -man

Which was pretty awesome by the way, and I mean,

yeah, he's not a dumb guy He improvises really

really well and he just seems to survive everything

and that's a lot of that is in welcome back Frank

as well and really comes from this book Oh, you

know, can we backtrack on the art because I actually

That's something I wanted to say about it. Really

quickly, I'll say about the morgue scene. Yeah.

I know this is bad. It's the way it's lit. I

thought it was Jon Stewart. I thought they switched

characters halfway through. I was like, fucking

hell, what is going on here? But go ahead, Dane.

Oh, okay. I see what you're talking about. Alright.

But I'm not trying to be offensive. I'm just

saying in that first panel in that first page

when he's standing there Yeah, what when the

doctors like oh? Hang on big boy it the way his

the way the lighting is done on his face. He

doesn't look Italian at all He looks African

American. I think that's just a bit of that filter

effect on Adobe Photoshop 4 or whatever they

were using at the time. I just see that as bad.

I think you may seriously want to invest in a

pair of reading glasses. Yeah, I don't see them

as that. Or you're color blind. Yeah, and the

light's clearly hitting his eyes. Don't yeah,

his eyes are red. Wow. Okay. Okay. I will take

a screenshot of them, but I will somebody may

have some racism issues That is one of the somebody

needs to like isolate that audio for generations

Right now Mike is like if why can't I wear blackface

the Punisher does it why can't I? Well, he needs

to go down to his local dollar general find someone

who used to be a plastic surgeon. Yeah funny.

Yeah Make it happen hang out But okay, listen

the one thing I want to say about the art is

now that I've this has got to be about the like

I've read this comic over a dozen times and I

always see this comic often as the halfway point

of Dylan's work because you see something that

he did like in preacher and then you see the

phoned in bullshit he does in Thunderbolts and

in the Ultimates that he did with Millar that

was like something to do with vampires and it

was really bad but um The thing that happens

is like there's less detail. There's less line

work. You might be able to say he's going for

a more Minimalistic style but it's like everyone

has the same goddamn face here. It's almost I

go. Okay. No, this is still good. There's variety

There's detail in the faces people still look

different but after a couple years of retrospective

I truly think that the lion's share the the credit

should really go toward Jimmy Palmiotti, and

even - Oh, what a surprise. Yeah, surprise, surprise,

yeah. No, no, no. I mean, like, the inks and

the colors truly enhance the pencils of Steve

Dillon. I think if you saw the pencils of most

of these pages, you'd be pretty disappointed.

I think, like, the colors especially improve

things like the emotions people are feeling,

the intensity of certain fire fights. The it's

in the inks really help flesh out like when people

are scowling or when people are shocked I'm not

saying that palmiotti Didn't do a great job.

I'm not saying he's not bringing anything to

the book But it really is that that dylan still

cares at this point And that's the thing is I

I'm not disagreeing with that. I just after reading

this again I just realized I don't think Dylan

are yeah I don't think Dylan was as great as

I thought he was after reading this I Got a question

for you. Yeah, how does Jimmy's dick taste? I'm

not even saying it's about fucking Jimmy. I'm

just saying the angst of the colors Fucking elevate

the work much more than what they would if it

was somewhere else Anyway, this is some of Dylan's

best work period. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely

up there with his work on preacher. I'm hard

pressed to say which is better, but this way

we can at least agree that this is Dylan is still

at his high watermark with this. Yeah. With the

with the fight with the Russian I see the entire

I see exactly where they got the entire scene

in the 04 film The 04 film could have been One

of the greatest comic book movies of all time

if they just would have adapted this The way

Zack Snyder adapted 300 Or watchmen and no no,

I mean think about that What you want to guest

star daredevil in that movie? How would people

even make that in context? You can take out that

whole scene you can erase Kind of the the throwbacks

to the old continuity and the first issue and

this can be its own thing like okay The daredevil

scene is good, but it's not necessary for the

story Okay I also don't think you need any sort

of backstory to Daredevil. I mean Frank pretty

much describes a lot of it well himself. I don't

think there's a whole lot of context that's necessarily

needed if you did want to use him. I don't know.

I'm just saying before like Iron Man or what

have you they really wanted these Movies to stand

on their own have their own internal logic. I

don't blame them for making the movie They did

back in 2004 or even the Punisher Warzone movie

that had its own internal logic to it They didn't

have to have a guess how could they not have

adapted this and made it its own thing You can

take out that daredevil scene. I really don't

get you know why you're saying that maybe if

they turn this into a fucking anime Like how

they do with iron man or whatever like an anime

feature. I'd love that shit. That would be great

Have uh, what's it called mad mouth studios?

Have them do it? Mad house here, but why do you

not think that this could be couldn't be adapted

for the big screen? Why why is this whole thing

looking really? Yeah, I want to know What except

that shit audience especially for a vigilante

creme d 'oran movie? What do you really want

him to uh? Like, even in the Tom Jane movie,

they knew, they didn't want to have a guy being

like, in Soviet Russia, you know, car drives

you. They didn't want that fucking guy. They

wanted him to be quiet. They wanted him to be

a brawler, okay? Because they knew the offices

would just be like, where is this weirdness coming

from? It was already weird. So hang on. Audiences

won't accept that, but grown -ups too can clear,

like... $50 million. I completely, fundamentally

disagree with you on this thing. Yeah. Okay.

Getting back to the fight with the Russian. I

love how they kill him. Oh, yeah. By smothering

him with Mr. Bumpo, which is better than falling

down the stairs. Yeah. Actually, what's even

better is when he's got Mr. Bumpo on top of him,

he's like, is he still moving? And he's like,

no. Alright, we'll just wait 30 more minutes.

Yeah, give it Fuck chill. Yeah, what's great

is they killed a stereotype with another stereotype.

It has a kind of poetry to it But You know, you

know looking back at We're looking at welcome

back Frank for the first time and having seen

the old form movie I see exactly I see every

single thing they took from this to make that

film It's what they were going for but didn't

achieve You know, they just need to let me direct

Marvel movies. I'll make them shit tons of money

I'll be better than Joss Whedon. Fuck it. Well,

I will say that at least for mainstay audiences

that aren't you know comic fans that have been

paying attention for the last twenty thirty forty

years i will say that the old four film is a

decent beginning middle and structured set up

story of introducing it like i'm a mainstream

audience to the character uh... but you know

i said it before i'd just say it again it's an

ok frank castle film it's yet bad punisher movie

that's right Anything's better than Electra You

know what's great about electric Joe Cassata

to this day refuses to admit that's a bad movie

Like if you if you bring it up with him, he's

going yeah Electra I stand by that to be fair.

I put it above Catwoman. Well, yeah Ruined Halle

Berry's life, man. I mean how bad How bad can

a movie be when it ruins an a -list actress like

that? Maybe days of futures past can redeem her.

Oh, yeah Be in that she yes, she is. Oh man,

that makes me want to see that movie less Tired

of that woman like friends like she had a really

good agent good for fucking her but man stop

fucking with the X -Men Yeah, I will be boycotting

the new X -Men movie Yeah. Okay, well, good.

Thanks. So brave. Thank you, Jake. So brave.

I'll also be boycotting this Robocop piece of

crap. They gave away the whole movie in a trailer.

So back to that Punisher book. Yeah, back to

that really, really awesome Punisher book. It's

discharge papers. Overall, no. Overall, I really

enjoyed it. I thought it was great. Even though

I did complain a little bit about the the overall

Pay off for the the vigilante squad taking a

little too long. I really enjoyed it. I thought

it was great Yeah, it's okay Yeah, it's a matter

I mean it's easily the best Punisher story of

all time. Yeah, it's okay Maybe when we get to

the ratings we should reflect Alright, we're

gonna take a quick ad break. Is there anything

else you guys want to say before we go to ads?

This book is fantastic. I have very little like

I remember reading this originally issue by issue

and Seeing what it did for the character which

was bring him back from nothing and Like nobody

talking nobody reading it and I mean Just not

just that but I mean Putting something that was

quality. I mean every Month it came out it was

somebody at my comic shops, you know pick for

the month that kind of thing and that never really

happened with a Punisher comic and it's happened

since then too, but I mean and it's kind of put

the character on the map and is This is really

we are one of the reasons why the punishers sort

of hung around this long i don't know what would

have happened if we'll come back frank didn't

exist if we still have angel punisher or what

no he would just be that what uh... that guest

star people would look at in a spider -man cargo

oh yeah i remember that guy sort of maybe he

dies in some kind of event to show that the event

is serious business right and but you know it's

not even the white loop cage pretty much wow

that's I actually stand by that. Yeah, that's

pretty good. Actually, there's the only thing

I'll add to my comments You will not you guys

will never understand how much I Jizzed my pants

like it was Christmas morning after I got done

reading Welcome back Frank and then found out

there was army of one. Oh Yeah, that's the next

one. Yeah Because I thought Welcome Back Frank

was its only I thought it was just like a limited

many then well when I saw that there was more

actually I have all of the Marvel Knights trades

and I still have one more to read but I can't

bring myself to read it because then once I read

it it's over there's no more in this Punisher

for me to read and you know Well, there will

be yeah there there will be and well probably

going to be some later, too Well, we don't know

that for sure. I don't want to count my chickens

before they hatch but yeah All right, we're gonna

take a quick break. We'll be back after this

Hello pop culture connoisseurs to gain a dark

sense of peace when the guilty are punished by

a violent vigilante If so, maybe you should get

some therapy and then subscribe to punish your

body count then that's best podcast concerning

all things Frank Castle I'm Dane Lamont. My co

-host Jake Williams and I cover the good, the

bad, and the hilarious. I'm the Punisher of comics,

movies, and news. Do you like chummy co -host

banter? We got that. You need to get your fucking

- No, you need to fucking pay attention to the

fucking movie. You want kick -ass guest interviews?

How about Mike Barron and Tom Jane? No, I like

a little bit of grit in my cigars. You want carefully

considered in -depth analysis? I mean, yeah,

just one best picture at the Oscars yesterday.

I mean, it's no Terminator. Good luck with that.

Punish Your Body Count, twice a month on Geekcast

Radio. We are back here in Punish Your Month

on the pole bag, and is anybody not going to

give this five stars perfect? I was going to

give it three Peter Wellers out of five. Okay,

I don't know. I'm not sure exactly what that

means which Peter Weller I like which which role

are we talking Peter Weller in here? Robocop.

All right, so if it's three rotobo cops out of

five, what does that mean? I think it means dead

or alive. This comic is awesome. It's coming

with you. Yes. Anyway So are we all in agreement

just to not necessarily cut this short? But as

far as the overall rating everyone's giving it

a five -star perfect This is one of my desert

island books that if I could only pick like a

handful of trades This would be one of them I

would do it because I think the book would be

really good for beating like a monkey to death

if I wanted some protein It's heavy enough. Yeah,

especially the hardback. Yeah. Yeah, which comes

with Punisher kills the Marvel Universe Yeah,

see, there'd be some irony to that. You're killing

something else now. Which was actually Ennis's

first work on The Punisher. But anyway. Yeah,

yeah. I can't believe that was the book that

actually was his first entry into The Punisher,

because that's something where you'd go like,

yeah, this guy's probably never going to write

for Marvel again. Just because he's too crazy.

But then the preacher happened. Yeah. Well, preacher

was way before that, wasn't it? Yeah, well not

that far before and I mean he had others too

that was a big that were a big deal like I remember

I think Hitman was the first time I started hearing

his name and people talking about him and Yeah,

I mean that was a pretty big comic especially

at the time as well But yet for me perfect five

out of five stars I would give it more rating

I should be a hipster like Dane and come up with

my own system to rate it, but whatever. We can

always just quote Billy Bob from Varsity Blues.

A tan, a fucking tan. Why do you never quote

good things? Shut the hell up. Yeah, why don't

you quote something from like Friday Night Lights?

To be fair, it's better than Varsity Blues. Yeah,

it's because Mike doesn't watch good shows. He's

always watching the voice or whatever the fuck

Oh god, here we go. We're talking about breaks

bad. I give it five minerals out of five Jesus

Christ Marie stop reading it Yeah, I don't know

it's not damnit Marie their stars not ratings

Yeah, either way. I mean, this is just you know

I think most people probably have this at the

very least in their top three Punisher stories

Yeah, I think you'd be hard for us to find a

lot of people that really dislike it It's basically

the Superman of all seasons for Punisher Pretty

much. Yeah, I Didn't know Superman of all seasons

was the seminal Superman book. It's pretty good.

Okay, you want all -star Superman? I thought

you'd shit all over me because it was a fucking

Graham Morrison book. Okay. No, I would don't

mean I've read Superman Okay, okay, so you're

gonna shit on it. Anyway, okay If only they could

- You didn't even let me fucking finish, you

asshole! Alright, I - Well, Jake is kinda right,

because if you look at All -Star Superman, that

spells ass. So there you go, right there. WHOA!

There you go, Mike! Oh, it's almost like you

got that from CBR message boards or something!

WHOA! Actually, no, I got it from Tooncast Beyond

Season 1, Episode 12. I'll just throw I'll just

throw this one out there by the way when we're

talking about Morris and all -star Superman's

one of the ones I really like of his great Yeah,

he's got a number of like I'm not a huge fan,

but he's got a number of like really great stuff

There's a lot of stuff. I don't like but his

Batman's pretty great, too Yeah, I mean no, I

mean the man has ever written is any good He

is the ass on an ass sandwich. And what's the

deal with the godfather, Jake, the overhyped

piece of shit? Am I right? I've actually never

watched that all the way through, so I can't

comment. You know what? Me too. So it's OK. Over

the next two weeks in Punisher Month, we are

going to be starting and finishing the Greg Ruck

-a -Run of the Punisher Volumes 1 through 3 in

trade so people don't get confused and think

we're talking about the shitty 80s comics and

then enter Warzone. For now, I am DF2 and Mike

with... Make your greatest game into comics and

we will catch you next time and actually maybe

throw Valley Forge in there on occasion, too

There are times when I just like absolutely love

reading that That's a very reflective comic and

it's something that I think you really need to

sit down and be willing to read like we also

need Born with it. Yeah. Yeah, very good companion

to born like a nice afterward Like a big Cuban

cigar after sex Yeah. Oh my god, that is awesome.

Yeah. Okay then. It's the only way I can come

twice. Yeah. Christmas comes early. It's like

his spinach. Wait. You just heard the latest

episode of the Pole Bag, GCRN's comic book review

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