The Punisher: Year One Review

Welcome to The Pullback. Join us as we dig out

our latest comics and discuss them with a rotating

panel of the GCRN crew. So sit back and enjoy

this week's Pullback. Hello and welcome to the

pull bag which has become the Punisher bag for

the month of November here on the pull bag I

am your host CFG and Mike joining me is Ryan

the uneven flow. Hello. Yo again Yo again, you're

back for another week and you sound so enthused.

Well, it's not really another week. Oh, sorry.

Anyway, shut up Trying to screw up All right

also joining us is the Punisher body count crew

back again Jake and Dane hello guys. How are

you? What up? Hey there Yes last week we kicked

off Punisher month actually last Wednesday. We

kicked off. I know it feels just like yesterday

We kicked off Punisher month with Punisher born

by Garth Ennis and This time we're gonna do another

I guess Version of the origin story with year

one I've been wanting to read Batman on this

show for the longest time I'm so fucking you

mean Frank Miller, but pre going insane. Yes.

Yeah. No this is Miller. Yeah, this is by Dan

Abnett and Andy Lanning The one thing I will

say the first time I know this is bad this is

I don't know two or three months ago when I found

out that The idiots over at DC have this whole

plan of having Keith Geffen go away for a while

in the current ongoing for Masters of the Universe.

And that's the first time I heard of Abnett's

name. Really? He's going to do a five -issue

run on the current ongoing for Masters of the

Universe coming up. And yeah, so as far as year

one, as everybody knows, I'm the Punisher Newbie

here. This is the first time I read this. When

was how long ago has it been since since you

read it Ryan? No, what do you mean? I like like

when you when was the first time you read your

one the first time I ever read it would have

been 2002 I think or so so I actually read it

before born chronologically, of course Well in

real life, I should say this was this came from

1994 was when it was originally published thus

the somewhat dated will say art style Oh Yeah,

I'll get into that later. Yeah What about you

Dane? When did you first pick this one up? I

picked it up back in the early 2000s like around

2001 maybe 2002 there was a man that owned a

that poorly ran a comic book shop in my area

and He sold these comics to me on discount because

he owed some Russians some money and that man

Wow What's that Said wow Jake you are so cheap

Come on a business No, that's actually I mean

that's actually true I I actually owned a game

store in South of Chicago that I ran for three

months before I ran it into the ground so Jake

what I thought you knew that I thought I told

you that before Jake this What why we keep secrets

from each other? Well, I guess we've all learned

something Something and we're going to take a

quick break before this goes down a really really

rotten rabbit hole Can I not talk about when

I first read this before we go to break? Yeah,

come on Sure. Go ahead. I read this back in like

2009 Seriously took you that long. So the rear

is presumably do I said again? Said so presumably

the re -release because I mean that oh, yeah,

I got the cover where he's holding that like

Pistol straight out of warhammer 40k on the cover

Yeah, I think I've got a car. Yeah, I do I have

that copy as well as the original Please don't

ask like how many books I have like that we know

what your list is go back and really hate that

cover Yeah, go back and listen to whatever origins

episode was Ryan's people Alright, so we're gonna

take a quick break and come back with our thoughts

on year one All right, so the Punisher year one

run down the staff Ryan I did already Dan amnesty

Was the yeah was the author of this one still

in comics has also written for dr. Who and a

number of other things Yeah, so yeah, there's

his sort of resume. He's Andy Lanning a lot of

x -men as well. Yep, Andy Lanning Around I can't

remember anymore He's a frequent partner of Dan

Abner. I mean, they pretty much crafted the Marvel

space comics. They guys were like the architects

of that. They're pretty much the reason there's

a Guardians of the Galaxy movie coming out. They're

the reason. Yeah, no, that's right. Then everyone

will pay 10 bucks to see any comic book movie.

So, oh, I mean, hey, it's a potent combination.

But yeah, anything except Electra. Yeah, pretty

much or cat woman or anything with a woman in

it because apparently they just decide all women

will be in bad superhero movies Look, we all

know women can't be superheroes. I guess sorry

Wonder Woman Back to the Punisher Still waiting

for the news of hey, Jennifer Garner is gonna

be Wonder Woman. I'd be okay with that Mike.

Why am I the one moving along your show? I know

right there is Dave Eaglesham Yeah, it's also

still around actually with yes, and embellisher

is Scott Koblisch Yeah, I have no idea what the

hell that means and if you keep going down this

I'll have to hurt you Color artists was Marie

Javins slash electric crayon. So these cut like

a letterer What's the only this up? I had to

look this up because I like I said last week

and I'll say it again this week This is my first

introduction to this character beyond the best

movie Which was the 2004 movie because he man

is the Punisher does not fucking count Look I

see his naked ass. What more do you want? He

also gets all the simple with saying children

It's basically a family -friendly Punisher. He's

the ABC family version of the Punisher Considering

that network shows burlesque. I would say yeah

Okay, so these these covers I I Had a real problem

with these covers beautifully done by Vince Evans

They are beautifully done, but they are done

in the old style Really and it's like oh my god,

and that's the only I don't know if it's just

my copy But it's the book smells like an old

harlequin romance novel Did you find your copy

in your mom's drawer there? No, I bought it from

InStockTrades .com Was inside her baton that

she only uses for security purposes? That's getting

bleeped out Alright, so I'll say it right now,

I hate the art style Oh man, really? I hate the

art, I like the design on Frank the art style

itself i felt like i was reading a dick tracy

novel i'm sorry honestly disagree more i absolutely

love this art top -notch exactly I wouldn't compare

it to say Robertson's but for the tone, it's

correct I mean you mentioned it looks like a

Dick Tracy novel. Yeah, that's kind of that's

kind of what they're going for actually You know

she wanted to draw like the taxi driver, New

York. It's shitty It's corrupt and it has a gritty

exploitation feel and sometimes spider -man comes

in to make fun of a drunk reporter. Like that's

the world we live in. That's the other thing.

I assume the point of view character here is

the idiot drunk reporter. Joe, I think that kind

of gets handed around pretty evenly. I don't

think there really is a point of view character.

Well, for the first five pages of the book, yeah,

I would say it's... Well, there's two point of

view characters. It's between him and the cops.

The cops as well. It's between him and the cops.

Yeah, the cop and the big teeter. when peter

parker comes in i'm like seriously really oh

i had a couple of those york is new york is home

to Majority of the Marvel universe, but Christ

do we really need to cross over with also wouldn't

Peter basically a not be spider -man at this

point if we're to keep like the timeline sort

of intact yeah, but I mean as You know things

that have changed and they've tried to make things

Modernized and make the characters eras make

sense Peter wouldn't have been alive just after

the Vietnam War Don't know now, you know at this

point like in 1994. I know they were still ageless

It's not just that it's that you kind of have

to agree with the sliding timeline of events

like Deadpool just did that in one of his recent

comics with David Poe sign and things like that

like it's like hey time for to do a 70s style

story with Luke Cage and Iron Fist and then when

it comes into present -day, it's like oh, yeah

We did that back in the 70s and yet none of them

have gray hair like it's it's just something

they accept But I don't know how hard it is to

believe that Peter Parker is not Spider -Man

considering he became Spider -Man before the

mid to late. I mean, chronologically in the real

world, you know, in the early 60s, but even in

Marvel time, you could say it was the late 60s.

You know, Frank could have already done, you

know, his tours in Vietnam by 68, 69. I mean,

I think it's totally plausible. Exactly. Yeah,

I'm not saying it's not plausible I'm saying

at the moment for the character as it is It wouldn't

be especially considering they are trying to

anchor down ages to a certain extent But this

isn't Peter Parker trying to join the Fantastic

Four because he just got powers This is already

seasoned Peter Parker getting ready for the clone

saga Yeah, anyway, yeah, we even have miles Warren

come in to remind us he exists. That was great,

too So they actually open up with Castle's family

essentially. I mean McTieran wakes up and Wanders

into the park and we see Maria and the two kids

and Frank Deceased and he they believe that Frank's

dead too. Of course at first Turns out he's fine.

They misdiagnosed him. They brought him to a

better hospital where he was upgraded to alive.

Oh, so they took him to Canada, great. I made

a Simpsons reference, you dunce. Oh, never mind.

So it wasn't Dr. Nick working on him then? No,

no, what's missing, guys, is he was dead, but

then he became a Highlander, so he just popped

right back up. Yeah. Only one. Talk about a quickening.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so I mean... Continuing it

on, I mean the cops question what he saw, what

McDarren saw, which is nothing. The only person

that saw anything is Frank, and of course he

wakes up and immediately starts fighting the

police, not knowing basically where he is and

being sort of grief -stricken. He beats the crap

out of a bunch of them, but eventually they kind

of hold him down. Human beings do after they

get caught in a bloody crossfire of a mafia activity

They burst out of a fucking body bag and start

roundhouse kicking the cops Yeah, plus he's been

riddled with bullets at this point, but yeah

Yeah, I should note that my recommendation to

Mike of this isn't based on quality I do actually

still think it's a reasonably solid story, but

I like but Mike is somebody that wants to sort

of follow Things along and chronologically this

made sense to do after born sure. That's fine.

I like the story I have no problem with the characterizations.

I have no problem with what the story does with

itself. I just hate the art That's why because

the coloring sometimes bleeds. Yeah, that's just

that's just the price It's too like I read this

like mid -afternoon on like a cloudless day and

The book was brighter than it was outside. Like,

I nearly went blind. I mean, I wasn't blind as

a bat. So would you say it's super happy fun

time chicken McNuggets colors? Pretty much. Yeah.

Really? Yes. Sometimes the colors are like sickly

and neon, but they're not like like. bright and

this isn't like fucking my brian well let's anyway

i think i actually love the uh... colors but

whatever i do too i'll also point out that they

dull the colors as frank sort of changes uh...

as well as something that's very noticeable uh...

but yeah i mean my problem is the hospital scenes

Well, so it's supposed to be bright he's supposed

to be the concept here is he's supposed to be

recovering and Of course, he's not but you know,

we all kind of I'll sum up the story quickly

because I mean they all kind of know it Frank

of course It recovers in the hospital. He survives

a mob attempt on him. He Correctly identifies

the shooters. They'll get off because of connections.

The police aren't able to do anything there.

Oh, I know I just want to add something to the

for the for the listeners by Abbot and landing

Definitely did their homework. Like when they

talk about the cost as the character designs

and everything They're really harkening back

to What was it the action shot or whatever action

one shot? Yeah We've talked about it before the

black and white Punisher stories in the Punisher

magazines and stuff like that Like they really

did a good job incorporating this and really

making it fit into it. So You know really good

job on them. Sorry. I go ahead. There's no it's

fine And I mean there isn't there's also not

only do they fit in with that But there's an

element of timelessness to it to a certain extent

with the exception the art in that This baby

belt bottoms aren't in style anymore. No, but

it's not I mean this could fit in with the majority

of the depictions of the Punisher it actually

doesn't completely break You know Jason Aaron's

interpretation either and I don't know if that

was intentional by him to avoid Undoing it. I

realize we're talking about max universe versus

616 but It's interesting that like for whatever

reason this kind of fits with all versions of

the Punisher be at the 80s 90s or The 2000s so

that's kind of interesting I mean, we go on.

I mean, the police can't do anything. So Frank

starts tracking down the, you know, got the shooters,

the costas. It's interesting to note that he

doesn't start killing them immediately. It's

only after his partner in this, the reporter,

yeah, is offed. And another attempt is made on

Castle by destroying his house, which, by the

way, Yeah, I was just gonna say blowing up the

house doesn't jive with Aaron's version, but

you know, maybe they rebuilt doubtful Well, I

was just gonna say that Frank even Kind of go

or he even acknowledges that he wants to kill

people because you have that scene where McTeeter

is like, oh, hey You're not gonna use that thing

talking about Frank's cult 1911 and Frank's like

no never and he's I mean, he's not saying it's

sarcastically He's he's dead serious, you know

I don't know about that. I thought it was one

of those You know action guy phrases you'd hear

in a movie of this era Yeah, I don't know that

he was prepped to kill at that point, but then

I mean we get into the no good No, no, there's

two things. I really want to bring up on this

because really what this boils down to is that

this is a four -issue origin series done in 1994

through 1995 what do I mean by that is this had

no right to really be that good when you steal

DC's trade or unofficial trademark Yeah, yeah,

you're just trying to ride another person's thunder

and but there's two things that really make this

good in my eyes one is that It is a very evenly

paced book like you imagine that after issue

one of seeing everyone get ripped You just see

like next three issues is just Frank taking down

his first mob family or whatever and it's really

not Because the second thing that this does is

this this goes through the five stages of grief

very well He goes through Disbelief he goes through

bargaining he goes bargaining in this manner

being trying to work with the police Trying to

work with the newspapers trying to make some

sense out of his life then anger And then finally

in the end he accepts a new reality I know I

missed one there, but my point is that the five

stages of stage five is kill everyone Yeah, pretty

much stage five is oh wait. I'm a marine. I can

fix my own shit. That's This grief Grief well,

no, I think I did mention grief in the beginning

there his own disbelief for grief. But yeah,

um And plus the other fun fact for people the

five stages of grief have no direct order They

can be hit at any point enter and really in the

fifth and the the final issue the last part I'll

sum up we get the finale of the 2005 Thomas Jane

movie. Yeah it's really well done and to be fair

i mean i liked that in the 05 film as well too

although i could have done without the i'm gonna

plant a bunch of bombs and somehow it's gonna

be the shape of my skull oh never mind but hey

hey if you have to put that art degree towards

something That was just something Marvel worked

up I don't think that was something in the story

of the film that really because it appeared on

film And so points need to be taken away for

it because it was kind of hokey. It's funny those

old Marvel movies There was always one moment

where you sat there and you wished you weren't

in the theater with other people That was kind

of it for that one. Yeah If Ash had done that

in Army of Darkness, it would have been lame.

Anyway, Frank goes out and finally he becomes

the Punisher at the end of this. He paints the

skull as a distraction, I might add. That's his

reasoning for it, not to mention intimidation.

paints the skull on a vest. And yeah, it's the

first time he goes out as the Punisher and proceeds

to cut down the costas. And it should be noted

that this also served as Jigsaw's origin as he

puts Billy the Bute Rousseau through a window,

quote, as a warning. And as we talked about in

Born, Frank would go on to let him go repeatedly

for no apparent goddamn reason. No, no, there

was like reasons just like how Like many superheroes

have reasons for letting Matt like murderers

that have killed more people than gunpowder at

this point go like Frank Castle lets jigsaw go

It's cut jigsaws kind of a shitty villain because

he's really not Frank Castle's equal and they

show this in They show this clearly in year one.

But one thing that jigsaw does is that he constantly

reminds Other he's like another form of intimidation

for other criminal elements like they look at

jigsaw and go. Oh shit Frank Castle did that

to this guy and he let this guy live. What could

he do to me? Well, I mean we'll get in we'll

get into that more I think with welcome back

Frank because really the first issue of that

is Castle's intimidation and he's let's just

say Ennis's version of intimidation to me is

a little better than letting a guy with like

scars Go repeatedly. Well the first time he encountered

jigsaw and this goes back to Abnan landing doing

their research Jigsaw believe it or not makes

his first appearance in spider -man. Yes and

They definitely played it up where he was like,

oh I was just a nobody mook and he threw me through

a window. Yeah asshole. Yeah time to become a

super villain right and Frank and spider -man

team up and they bust his ass and then the cops

take him away So Frank, you know had no choice

but to let him go in that instance but even then

like going back to what Dane was saying the way

that issue ends up ends is Frank's just like

Yeah, fuck. I can't remember this guy for the

life of me. Yeah It's he like said maybe I was

really drunk on rage or something. I don't know

I've done a lot of fucked up things that start

in those stupid song movies Oh, yeah, there's

that guy too. I think Jake and I have tried to

crack that joke It never really works out that

well, but by all means give it a shot I'm gonna

pretend you didn't never said that so I won't

have to berate you for the next ten minutes Not

you, Dana. Not you, Dana. I meant Micah. I hear

you. I hear you. All right, good We're on the

same page. Anyway, yeah Geez, we've already kind

of summed it up. I'll say this I mean in a lot

of ways year one very much was year one it's

the tale of Frank Castle more than it is the

Punisher and When we get into the movie adaption,

I'll probably make that point again that it's

it's Frank Castle's story and in a lot of the

same way that DC's year one their main Their

best known year one, which is Batman is Bruce

Wayne's story versus Batman So yeah, I Don't

know. I did like this book again, you know, I

didn't choose this one for Mike because I thought

it was the best story It's just it sort of falls

into that Chronology really well. Yeah, you know

we mentioned before like how sometimes Marvel

is uncomfortable fitting the Punisher into the

Marvel universe But there have been numerous

examples of how you can do that in a in the not

the the correct way But the best way possible

and we can see this also in Punisher year one

where like you definitely see clear elements

of the Marvel universe But if they're also mostly

divorced from what's going on in Frank Castle's

life like the the dr. Miles Warren like once

again, this is a The. Andy and Dan doing their

research because basically the Punisher has kind

of a really weird debut issue in Punisher because

it's like the Jackal set me up What what does

a scientist have to do with a soldier? And why

did he trick a trained Marine into fighting Sparrow

doesn't really make sense in a modern element

But they still have to give some kind of weird

credit to it So the doc so what was great for

me is they actually did try and make sense of

it They actually said like no What before Warren

went batshit crazy? He was a doctor and he actually

saw this guy and he saw this guy Whoop ass right

in his right in his hospital So the man actually

does know Frank Castle and he actually may have

a reason for pitting him against spider -man

Just little things like that made the story a

little richer to me You bring up a really good

point with that too because it's something that

others have done as well including you know,

of course rucka tied it in the exact same way

using a lot of the different New York characters

and it's something that Are probably I think

most Punisher fans will agree our absolute favorite

Punisher writer did brilliantly and that of course

is Matt Fraction Best writer on the Punisher

ever if only we could have gotten a book Written

by Matt Fraction that Howard Chaykin had drawn

that would have been amazing dare to dream It

wasn't the Punisher's day off. I'd be happy to

read that No, no, you know you wouldn't if you

ever read a book by fraction and shaken yeah

Shoot me now. I never said that miss that joke

Ryan No, I'm just are you kidding. Do you have

any idea how badly traumatized? I am by the war

journal run and then Howard Jacobs nightmarishly

bad issue 50 But I said I would refraction Punisher

as long as it wasn't Punisher's day off. I don't

care. I'm still traumatized by that. Chaiken's

art was nightmarish. If you guys ever do a show

on like the worst Punisher artists, if he's not

number one, I'm gonna scream at you. Top three

if not number one. Oh Anyway back to your how

did Howard Shaken get fans like there are diehard

Howard Shaken fans They released a hardcover

book of his work somehow figure that out. Well,

I'm always the guy now This is a pretty ignorant

opinion since I haven't seen it like no like

I haven't seen his independent work But I know

I always felt like Shaken was the guy that had

like kind of like the Sam Keith Marvel like he

has a very distinct style Through his own independent

work and then like one of the big two companies

just said like well we might as well bring him

in and Like he just kind of runs on his own inertia.

I mean, I guess I can see that except for Sam

Keith actually has talent No, no, I agree and

I actually felt bad for that, but you know what

I'm talking about. I know what you're saying

and I Get what you're saying. Yeah If parlon

fernandez or robertson had taken a crap on the

page, it would have looked better than that issue

50 anyway, so Can we talk about some of the characters

in this comic? I would like to yes, let's wait.

I was the one that started that tangent shit

What do you want to start with though? Because

I mean I think teeter Mcteer teeter Mcteer but

anyway, yeah, he Sort of the slimy drunk reporter,

but he also He's sort of in the same boat as

Frank to a certain extent. He's lost his wife.

Although in his case, it's his own fault Because

he's a drunk. Yeah And I mean, I think that was

probably intentional that he was meant to sort

of have at least a little in common with him

Even if he doesn't see it Yeah In a lot of ways

McTeer was what Frank could have become he could

have just started drinking after all of this

too and been a drunk But I think I think we all

lost our innocence at Woodstock But if you're

just a little bit harder I'll just say this too.

I liked the cops in this Lamont in particular

because of course he has the scene where he wrestles

with whether or not to help Frank Did did you

say Lamont because it's love. It's loviano. Is

it oops? Love y 'all know yeah, damn it either

way Uh, I thought he was really well done. I

liked that sequence outside his garage and we

get the, you know, uh, he tells them that, yeah,

it is. He tells them that, you know, castle's

dead, et cetera, et cetera. And I like that.

I mean, he has a serious problem helping this

guy who he knows is just going to go out and

kill everyone. But in a way he feels responsible

because he assured Frank. That they were going

to do something. But of course, the Costas had

their hooks into the police department and the

higher ups were like, no, no, no. They're alibide

up. They're lawyered up. We're taking a kickback.

So you need to drop this shit. And they let yeah,

they let the lower level guys take the fall.

Loviano was the one character that I liked in

the beginning, but I felt kind of uneasy about

toward the end. And I don't mean like, oh, man,

how could he let that Information go to Frank

Castle. I understood that just the way his whole

character arc ended, which is like wealth I guess

we created a mass murderer. Oh, man Shit shit

sucks. I don't think that's it Yeah, that's thing

his the character that's introduced on the first

eight pages of the first issue I don't care what

he's gone through that should not fucking match

It does not match with the guy who's on the last

page is it which is like man shit happens, whatever

his indifference is fine up to a point but yeah

that last page now i guess you could say like

he was drunk but it's it yeah i agree that last

page where he just kind of says like you know

where were you when the war broke out he's downright

sort of happy about it the indifference in the

page before i was okay with where he's just kind

of like Like gee what a tragedy all the costas

are dead Yeah, it sounds weird, but I'd almost

put it out as like giddy apathy like wow I don't

care more about the system. I'm just gonna let

everything go to shit like everyone else Yeah,

I agree with all that, but I still enjoy his

his exchanges with Castle I thought really well

done. I agree. Yeah, I liked it liked him as

a character How do we feel about this version

of Frank since he's the only one we really haven't

discussed I Love it. I think this is Just so

good because once again, I was shocked at the

amount of screen time. They gave a Frank Castle

not being grim Not being a grim narrator and

not just constantly busting people through fucking

doorways to get information They certainly do

do that. But just him like being able to talk

to is I mean some people might argue that. It

borders on the melodramatic but him like talking

to his wife inside his house and that whole narration

he goes through taking out his military uniform

to get a gun and Considering suicide. I mean

that's not something you'd see in an 80s Punisher

book What do you mean Frank Castle would ever

consider killing himself? That's not the manly

thing to do. Uh Yeah, it might be the family

man thing to do if that's what you if you lost

that part of your life In a lot of ways, and

again, this is why I chose this book as one of

Mike's, in a lot of ways, this was the precursor

to Ennis' Punisher. Huh. I don't know how I feel

about that. What do you mean? I mean, Marvel

Knights. I'm not going as far as to say Max,

but the fact that... He's depicted as a lot more

broken in this now in this case. It's by his

family's death Yeah, but he's not depicted as

you know, there's a little more sort of happier

This kind of opened the door to him being a darker

character In some ways, it's the year one for

this character. He was very much sort of a Batman

-esque character. Yes, he was grim, particularly

when Miller wrote him in Daredevil, but for the

most part, he was still sort of jokey, and there's

a bit of that here. He hasn't completely lost

it, but he's still a lot darker. He's a lot less

of a nice guy than other... Otherwise depicted

I couldn't necessarily see this version of the

Punisher especially at the end hanging out drinking

cider with microchip Yeah, no, I can okay. You've

definitely won me over on that like I think they

take his more His marine coming home to his family

side a lot more seriously Because one thing the

Marines can't prepare you for is how do you deal

with the death? of someone you care about. Marines

can teach you how to field strip an M16, they

can teach you how to patch a wound, but they

can't really tell you how to deal with grief.

I mean, I'm sure they definitely have services,

but it's not part of BASIC. That's one of the

issues I see in this comic is that... Nice how

alone Frank is and there's really no one for

him in the comic to really rely on to be his

friend I mean he eventually allies himself with

a drunk reporter But that's what it gets and

that's done through a lie though that he finds

out about I mean the only person who talks to

him is the guy who's trying to use him Yeah,

yeah. No, I definitely I'm resonating with what

you're saying Dane. I definitely Got the sense

of isolation From Frank Castle in this story.

Yeah I love the scenes with him and the reporter

going out trying to get the information. Oh,

those are masterpieces. I thought that was great.

Even though I'm not a fan of the art, I thought

that part of the story was absolutely awesome.

And again, in a lot of ways, we see Frank Castle

again, because the Punisher would have torn these

people apart, literally, to get that information.

He's not that person yet, but he's well on his

way. He's throwing his contestants up on the

laundry hangers. God I love the slavers anyway

Yeah, I could hear 80s montage music playing

as that as they ran through people. You're the

best around The sad thing we don't need as we're

talking just now. The sad thing is I made two

2004 film references Don't drink your memories

away and the song I heard in my head was broken.

Oh god Wow As long as you don't bring up fake

Johnny Cash guy, I guess you'll be okay. Or,

uh, yeah, or the font dude. Or Kevin Nash. Yeah,

I was about to say. He was fine. Have you read?

He would have been awesome if he... Sorry, I

was just curious. He would have given Frank the

jackknife. Ugh, jackknife powerbomb. I was curious

if, uh, Mike, if you've read Welcome Back Frank

yet. I'm reading these right before we do the

shows. Yeah, that's a good way to do it Yeah,

that's going and honestly when we get to the

point of getting to welcome back Frank That book's

gonna give me carpal tunnel if I read it all

at once it really is back Frank's going to probably

change your opinion of the o4 movie in a lot

of ways yeah, oh Can I say that there's one part

about this that really kind of bugs me. It's

when It's when Laviano is talking to private

detective wits his friend in the department and

they're talking about like the basically talking

about the murder scene and Loviana says Oh man,

this was a real professional job. I don't know

how we'll even I don't even know how we'll handle

this and I go really a professional job Mobsters

go into the one of the most populated parks in

the world and decide to murder a man and hang

him from a tree Oh, this was clearly the work

of experts. Oh comic book detectives are terrible

They're just like Jesus Christ. We were dealing

with like a new Moriarty here until Gotham City

Until Gotham City Central, every comic book detective

was a moron, it would seem. Yeah, I mean, this

was a good man, but like, what part of executing

a man in Central Park and then hanging him like

a piñata is like, clearly these are strong, silent,

smart killers. To be fair, wasn't Biggie killed

on the Las Vegas strip in broad daylight after

a fight? I thought that was Tupac. I don't know.

Yeah, it was one of them anyway. It was killed

in broad daylight after a fight on the strip.

If you believe what Chris Rock says, the government

hates rap music and they're purposely covering

that up. Could be. Yeah, that's probably the

only thing I believe Chris Rock says I'm still

I'm still on a on a character kick here And can

I just say Wow Peter Parker is caught kind of

a heartless dick He is very much so. I mean I

was kind of amazed by it because here's the thing

you can say that make uh I want to get his name

right here. It's make tear make tears kind of

like You know that guy that goes like hey, man

Can I borrow three bucks and you you hand him

the three dollars knowing you'll never see it

again? We all know that guy but Peter Parker

actually walks up to the guy and goes like how's

it going? McChug laying on your face this morning

Peter Parker's miss going hit the punchline to

that joke is haha. You have alcoholism So in

the end so in the end the lesson here is Peter

Parker is the real punisher in this book Yeah,

he punished me. Well that or he's been, he's

been, you know, attached to the symbiote. Yeah,

exactly. That'd be a wonderful thing if that

was... No, no, guys, you both got it wrong. This

is really the Scarlet Spider. Yeah, this is...

Oh, God, not Ben Reilly. It can't be symbiote,

Peter Parker, because he's not dancing. Damn

it. Zing! Meanwhile this Peter Parker goes like

hey McTier, how's the wife? You know that I found

that really insensitive for Peter to say No,

seriously The alcoholism quip I can kind of get

cuz at times Peter whether he's attached to a

symbiote or not can be a dick. Yeah, but That's

just not even cool and the other thing is Seriously,

your spidey sense is gonna go off if someone

steals a roll of film from your desk Really?

It was his most important role If I if I was

McTier in this situation, I'd be like, hey Peter.

How's the uncle? I would just be like, yeah Nice

Uncle Ben's rice. So basically McTier is Batman

Oh god, I hate all those internet memes. Yeah,

they they make me laugh at least once and then

every time I see them after that it's like Oh

god, not this again. Really join us when we come

back for an actual wrap -up. Oh, sorry Yeah,

that's that's about it. Yeah, because I mean

they're really you know We see Frank's road to

becoming the Punisher and I I do enjoy that and

I like I said before I really enjoyed the writing

I enjoyed the story actually one thing I will

like is that You know one of the common things

that Jay and I have brought up since like the

early days of the Punisher Body Count Podcast

is that one of the funny things about Frank Castle's

family is there not so much human beings often

as they are just props like Jason Aaron I think

is the closest we've gotten to a real family

I'm sure there's been brief flashbacks, but I

swear most people don't even know what Maria's

hair color is It's it's that unimportant to Frank's

origin, but in this one in this arc you actually

see that Frank Castle even in death has a relationship

with his wife and He remembers the things that

she did even little things like putting little

forget -me -not Flowers along the border that

built up pathos that a lot of writers did not

bother with in the 80s and 90s He's like fuck

I can't remember his daughter's name. Fuck it.

Just rename her Yeah, yeah, it's funny because

yeah, you mentioned that and you mentioned Aaron

in the same breath he's one of the only other

ones that picked that up again because you know

you get the sequence of You know, he mentions

that the living room still smells like Maria

and things like that in his ones I mean she was

more than basically she's a table in most Punisher

books. She's just sort of an object and Yeah,

there's there's quite a bit that is owed to year

one over Frank's, like, career in the year 2000

on. Yeah, I mean, there's often, like, this weird

feeling in some Punisher comics where it's almost

like you could almost replace Frank's family

with a really sweet Camaro and someone fucked

it up and it was real bad. Like, I'm fucked with

my property. That's why I said table. I mean,

it's the same thing. It was just a thing. Yeah.

Alright, we're going to take a quick break and

we're going to come back with final thoughts

and ratings after this. And it is time for final

thoughts on year one. I'm gonna go first I'll

never read this again Really like I've said the

entire stream. Yeah I Will know it's not that

bad. I just I like the story, but This is one

of the reasons why I'm glad I'm not attached

to 90s comics at all The you know, the art in

places is good There are a couple of good Punisher

shots like when he puts the the shirt on and

all that stuff and when he when he's actually

being the Punisher later in the in the trade,

but I Don't like the background style. I don't

like how it's drawn. I don't like how it's colored

I just I don't care for the 90s art at all It's

kind of like I made that comment to you Ryan

when we did the DC episode There's no way in

hell I'm going back and reading 60s and 70s Batman

because I cannot I don't see how anybody could

enjoy that art style I like how Jake uses Photoshop

like as soon as it's used. It's just like aha,

but it's art is sullied He has a very Amish way

of looking at art. Tell him tell him to update

it and use Instagram then fine There's a difference

between photoshopping and actually using digital

ink Yeah, all right Here's the thing. No, here's

what I don't like about Photoshop. Okay, okay.

Anyone can do it. Yeah It turned amateur wannabe

artists into being super awesome when they really

have no right to be that good, and the computer

allows them to phone it in. And that's just my

opinion. I know there are tons of people that

are like, no, he never intended to begin with.

I'm like, no, fuck you. This is a whole other

discussion we can have in the pullback at a later

date. Let me just say this one more thing. One

more thing. An automatic AK -47 turns anyone

into an instant badass, OK? That's all I'm saying.

OK. Ryan, final thoughts. I'm next. I'm going

to have to give it four out of five in the end.

I still I really like this as an origin story.

There's there are a few things I definitely would

have changed if I, you know, had. if i had it

over again yeah because i'm the writer uh there's

a few things i didn't like about it uh and yeah

i mean the art is dated even though i like it

and i really like the motif that they went with

and i understand what they were trying to do

with the coloring i have no real issues with

that but anyway um yeah i mean it's not perfect

but it is a very good and it is surprisingly

like i said before there is sort of a timeless

quality to it What about you Dane? Um, I agree

with many of Ryan's points I actually it's been

years since I've read this and I reviewed it

for the main purpose of the show and It's really

gone up in my eyes. Like this is what I feel

to be Especially in today's world where the Punisher

is really only allowed to be a very narrow version

of a certain Character that's fine, but I liked

seeing a version where there's humanity in Frank

And there's not like this forced version of pathos

like you actually feel like oh This is what a

human being would actually go through if his

family actually died Regardless of how strong

he is as a Marine or a soldier I I love the pacing

of it I felt it didn't waste its time. With any

of the scenes but it gave all the characters

chance to breathe while not doing the whole Like

what the what the problem was when we did born

a week ago where Frank Castle was a total outsider

for most of it We don't get that here. We actually

do get into the man's head We also get to see

how it affects other people to me It's a wonderful

story and and it's one of the one It's one of

the stories that people should read if they ever

deal with the Punisher character in any professional

capacity. It's five out of five for me. Jake.

Nice. Wow, I'm surprised you gave a five out

of five, but only gave born. 4 .5 I know and

this is why Jake and I don't have like real ratings

on our show because they can get real Arbitrary

if you do them long enough I agree 30 minutes

over whose rating was was more accurate No, but

I mean he's right like I have issues with me

giving it a four But I have a really hard time

putting it at a 4 .5 considering some other stuff.

I'd put there Like I'm shitting on born, but

I bought born like 10 years ago and I'm reading

this and I go wow this still holds up this is

a really good I was about to say though that

like 4 out of 10 which is what I gave this is

still a phenomenally good rating people seem

to have forgotten that IGN is the most guilty

of this by the way 80 % or higher is phenomenal

Yeah, you don't have to start at 70 and goes

up to 100. Yeah, exactly. And really, I mean,

everything like seven and above is exceptionally

good. But anyway, yeah, so. And I will put the

link to the GCN Universal rating system in each

one of these episode posts so people can see

the description. All of these ratings aren't

just, oh, I'm going to give it four and a half.

Oh, I'm going to give it four stars. Oh, I'm

going to give it three stars. I mean, we have

written reasons out why, you know, what descriptions

for these ratings on our website at geocacherator

.com. And I'll put that link in the post. What

were you going to rate it, Jake? Well, I'm going

to say that I really like the art, but this art

style is really in my wheelhouse. I love the

colors. I'm always a sucker for the traditional

felts. Uh, I really agree that the pacing was

outstanding. I really love like I'm a big continuity

guy and I really loved how they took the time

looked up with the cost is look like, you know,

back in those seventies Punisher magazines. And

I liked that they fit it in. They made jigsaw

not annoying, which is very difficult to do.

Yeah, they basically made him a non character.

They get props there Yeah, I think this is a

very enjoyable read. I definitely agree that

anyone who likes the character or even someone

who likes the idea the character or just enjoys,

you know reading a One -off kind of story about

this character should definitely pick this up

that said I don't think it's as seminal as something

like born I don't think that it's a must have

for every trade collection. And I'm having trouble

putting my finger on exactly why that is. But

I'm going to give it four stars. All right. And

for me, before anybody just jumps down my shit

about this, I'm going to read the description.

Three stars. Barely passing. Barely passing.

While the overall takeaway was positive, you

did not necessarily walk away happy. It does

not extraordinarily succeed in any specific areas,

or if it does, it gets weighed down by something

equally unsuccessful. Though overall enjoyable,

it is easily disposable. Like I said before,

I will probably never read this again, simply

because I can't stand the art. I love the characters,

I love the character interactions, and I love

the story of how... they explain Frank's origin

but the art really really sticks with me like

oh my god like this to me looks like it could

be a Riddler origin more than a Punisher origin

okay the art is just I just can't get past the

art well you know what that means don't you Mike

it just means you didn't get it I'm apparently

not We did it's fucking bingo with you Jake it

always goes up fucking throw God damn it anyway

look everyone goes to the concert to hear the

singles, okay? Everyone Yeah, one last thing.

Does anyone go to Metallica concerts these days

to hear their new shit? No, they go to your inter

-sandman, alright? Right? The lightning, motherfucker!

Anyway, the last thing I'll sort of mention is

that it's worth noting that, I mean, the tone...

I did this deliberately again when I gave you

that list. I picked books with completely different

tone and we're going to shift completely again

next week because I mean, Born was unfortunately

the only title I picked out of the Max line because

there's a bit of a coherent story to the Max

line. I would have loved to have thrown in some

other stuff. November 2013 is not just the only

time we will cover Punisher, so I'm sure there

are other books that we will cover in the future.

So don't think, oh my god, these are the only

books they're going to cover ever. That's not

the case. But anyway, yeah, I went for the tone

shift to year one, which is a little lighter

than born. Actually, everything is lighter than

born. And then next week is Welcome Back, Frank,

which any Punisher fan knows. For the love of

God, I hope so. Anyway, and that's another like

complete tone shift from the other two Also next

week is something I threw in there because I

love it so much is the Punisher movie adaptation

from the 2004 film which is a really good place

to put it because I really think you're gonna

your View on that and the movie may shift quite

a bit. I've never read it before Yeah, go get

it. It was the only Book in the list. I didn't

own or read or have you ever before? Guys get

a week All right, so for the pullback I am TFG

and Mike with Ryan Jake and Dane and we will

catch you next time Here and Punisher month.

Keep reading those comics. We'll see you then

good night And if you see something, why don't

you say something? What the fuck does that even

mean? You could be blind as a bat, so I mean,

you never know. I see without seeing. To me,

darkness is as clear as daylight. What am I?

Please! You're as blind as a bat! Exactly. You

just heard the latest episode of The Pole Bag,

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