Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl, and Zero Year Issues #21

This is Batgirl, and you're listening to the

Geekcast Radio Network. Welcome to... The Polebag!

Join us, as we dig out our latest comics, and

discuss them with the rotating panel of the GCRN

crew. So sit back, and enjoy this week's Poll

Bag. This is Kevin Conway and I am the goddamn

Batman. Hello and welcome to the Poll Bag. This

is episode 21. I am one of your hosts, DFJ1Mike,

and joining me is Steve Batatron. Hello. Why

hello there. I should have said Jokertron. Damn

it. Oh well. Yeah, normally I because Steve isn't

on the podcast as much I normally let him introduce

the episodes that he's on but There's a bad killing

joke in this episode Yeah DC is just I Honestly

don't know I there It's not even one of those

things where someone posts something on Facebook

and someone usually will make the comment of,

there are no words, no words at all. It isn't

even that anymore. It's just the fact of, why

are they doing this? And honestly, I don't care

who, you know, I care who listens to this podcast,

but like for this specific episode, I don't care

if Dan DiDio listens to this because when I first

ever saw his name, and he's a super nice guy,

I have nothing against him personally, I've heard

him on Fat Man on Batman with Kevin Smith and

everything else, he's a cool guy, but just one

thing really rubbed me the wrong way, and he's

always wanted to kill Nightwing. As most of you

know, Nightwing is my favorite character. When

it comes to the bad family he's the one for me

that's most like Batman's the legend Batman's

everything we need to live up to being No one

is ever going to be Bruce Wayne again you know

they'll do it in their own styles in different

you know different ways and such but Nightwing

for me is is the character that you know the

the everyman nightwing is essentially DC's version

of spider -man without powers because Spider

-Man Peter Parker isn't every man he has everyday

shoes and all this and all that but a couple

months ago I saw an article online that said

that this new this Trinity War this forever evil

this villains month thing is gonna have extreme

repercussions and at the bottom of the article

the writer of the article I don't remember who

it was I don't remember what website it was on

I don't remember at this point Said I have a

very you know High place source a very reliable

source that says it's going to be Nightwing Well,

it has been now confirmed That Nightwing is the

central affected character in forever evil and

villains month now They do say centrally affected

character. They do not say he's going to die

But come on now, they're gonna make him poor

oracle which would be bullshit You stole my joke

you jackass well, I told you it was gonna be

a killing joke I I said on Facebook when this

first happened I commented back on my status

and I said watch they're gonna have Somebody

shoot him. He's gonna be in a wheelchair and

he's gonna be the next Oracle and somebody else

commented back and said if that's the case They

should just kill him A few weeks ago when Dan

DiDildo... I'm sorry, like I said I have no disrespect

for the guy but when I first ever saw his name

in print the first thing I thought was Dan DiDildo

was saying one of our major recognizable characters

will be affected in a very dramatic way. We said

that the character was going to be Nightwing.

Holland who attended the DC retailer Roadshow

confirmed this news talking about forever evil.

It's going to start with Nightwing Reminding

us that Dan DiDio wanted to kill off Nightwing

in infinite crisis Now I want to read something

you actually wrote you had commented on When

I originally posted this on the on the GCR and

fan page on Facebook. I'm scared because I don't

remember what I wrote Quoting Steve Megatron

here Wow DC Comics is going to alienate a lot

of people first Damien then Catwoman now Nightwing

I understand changing things, but this is stupid

They'll relent after a writer change and we'll

go back to revive him them all over and they

always do example everyone who died in the DC

universe It's like it's true though No, I know

we started with Superman. They kill Batman. Oh,

let's bring it back after a year. I mean it's

it's It's like either stick with the damn decision

or not that I want them to kill Nightwing because

he is such a important part to the Bat family.

But at the same time, like if you're going to

make a decision, just stick by it. Stop playing

this game where, oh, we're going to kill them

off for a year and then or we're going to, you

know, severely injure them. You know, like Batman

is messed up in the head now that Damien's dead

and. Uh, then they go zero year. So they're taking

a year off before they come back to telling the

story. Again, it's another one of those type

situations. Doesn't it make sense though? They

jump shark to a completely different storyline

for a year and then they come back to the other

storyline. I know, but okay, we'll get into the

storyline things later when we actually get to

reviewing zero year. Number one or 21 or whatever

the hell it's with Nightwing, you know, I I said

I I said this that if they do kill him I Will

most likely drop every DC book I get the only

exceptions I would make Are zero year. I don't

know what Snyder and Coppola or doing after zero

year, but I'll stick Batman through zero year

because I do I do enjoy the origin of Bruce Wayne

I love Batgirl, so I'll still read that Batman

Beyond limited slash Batman Beyond universe I

will probably cancel that and wait for the trades

birds of prey axed Batman and Robin Batman and

whatever the hell person whatever I'll probably

axe that. I'll keep He -Man and Masters of the

Universe. I will probably keep Batman 66 because

that's basically the TV show in comic form and

that's interesting. Batman and Superman, that

was the other thing. Batman and Superman number

one was the freakiest, weirdest shit I've ever

read. I did not. It was just... the only good

thing about the batman superman number one that

i found was the dialogue and the monologuing

between clark and bruce the rest of the actual

story what happened in that issue is just too

fucking weird for me i'll stick it out through

issue two with that to see to see if it gets

any better but after that i'm probably not going

to get that book anymore So yeah, no, I mean,

my comic buying, and I even said if they kill

Nightwing, I will jump to Marvel and I will become

a Marvel fanboy. I somehow doubt that you're

telling the truth there. No, I'm dead serious.

And it's like I said, DC is going to alienate

people by killing off all these people like they

think it's such a great idea. Granted, I'm a,

now mind you, I'm a complete DC fanboy. I granted

I like select Marvel characters themselves but

I have no interest whatsoever reading Marvel

comics. I'm a complete DC guy all the way but

me saying this that they're alienating people

and they're you know like Batman for instance

just using him as an example because I'm most

familiar with him they took him out of the game

for about a year or two with Nightfall. Yeah,

and they put another guy in charge which was

as real at the time Yeah, John Paul Valley and

they had Tim Drake as Robin at the time and nobody

else in there. So It again they have some kind

of cataclysmic thing happen to the character

to the point that either a they are Broken and

are in a wheelchair which is the case with like

Oracle Batman and so on and so forth and then

they miraculously are fine they're back to duty

and then and or they die and then by some other

kind of cataclysmic design they somehow return

by some supernatural means and it's it's i don't

know i think it's such an unneeded thing to do

with these characters there are other ways that

you can spice up a character without having to

fake kill them yeah and i especially in this

new 52 not to cut you off but i mean they've

Added so much more depth to every one of the

characters when they reintroduce them That there's

so many more new stories that they can tell Yeah,

and let me be clear when I say I'm gonna jump

ship to Marvel I don't mean I'm gonna start going

get you know current ongoings I mean I'm going

to basically keep three or four DC titles like

like I said Batman Batgirl, and he made of the

Masters of the universe What I mean when I say

I'm gonna jump ship to Marvel is, I'm just gonna

start getting stuff in trade. It's like, older

stuff. Like, I'm not even gonna read, like, outside

of Superior Spider -Man, which JT and I do on

the show here. I'm not, right now I'm not, unless

it's in trade paperback form, I'm not interested

in collecting anything Marvel that's ongoing

single issues. I will get it in trade. Like you,

I am a complete DC fanboy, but I'm sorry. If

they're gonna kill off my favorite character,

fuck you. You know and I you know, I don't know

if that's what's gonna happen I don't know how

it's going to happen all as I know is the signs

point and everybody's like, oh, well, it's comics

They bring people back to life all the time and

then people throw up. Oh, what about the Lazarus

pit? Seriously, the fucking Lazarus pit. They've

been using the fucking Lazarus pit for the last

70 fucking years I get it. That's the way they

bring people back to life But Jesus Christ it

the Lazarus pit is more of a goddamn McGuffin

than the fuck matrix of leadership was in 1986

it just is just pissing me off to no end and

I know Kyle Higgins loves the dude loves the

character but every I've looked at several different

websites I've looked at comiclist .com I've looked

at several I've looked at DC's own website they

know we're online at this point usually when

when issues come out they like batman twenty

one came out earlier this morning earlier last

month about two weeks after the issue releases

they will start showing you on their website

dc will show you uh... what's coming next and

majority of what's coming next is is the villain

issues and whatever else but nightwing does not

have a release as far as i can tell after issue

twenty three so suffice it to say they lead you

to think that He dies. He dies. If there's not

going to be an issue 24, then the story must

end. And I know Kyle just, you know, got, I guess

you could say promoted or added on. No, promoted,

I would say, because he's now doing... He's doing

a Batman line now. yeah he's he's gonna be doing

Batman Beyond Universe coming in August and that

you know I will still read Batman Beyond Universe

and all that to see what Kyle does because I

love Kyle's writing but I just don't like I I

want to know if this guy's behind this I mean

I want to know if he's gonna get behind if they

do kill his favorite character because I don't

know I don't know how I just Don't know. I don't

I just there's there just no fucking words anymore.

So we are gonna get into it after this We're

gonna talk about detective 21, right? Yes Yeah,

we'll be back I read about your anonymous exploits

this morning. Are you sure you won't reconsider

rugby? Sorry Alfred, but the plan is working

I had the edge I could feel it. Yeah, there was

only one thing wrong. They weren't afraid of

me I've got to strike fear in them from the start.

Pardon, Master Bruce, but we may want to postpone

the shop talk, as it were. All right, it is time

to detect some stuff. What happened in Detective

21, sir? Well, Detective 21 starts out. You now

have, obviously, Emperor Penguin behind bars.

Batman's kind of in the middle of a lot of random

things going on. mostly women problems you have

it's it's yeah you have Harper Rowe again being

hinted at as a future partner just make her Robin

already Jesus Christ you won't because you know

his son was Robin so he won't want to you know

taint the The suit with a female after his son

died in it. So make something else make her yellow

Robin make her green Robin make her gold Robin

make her whatever Yeah, that won't happen. Even

even Barbara Gordon wanted to be Robin We'll

get to that. Yeah, um, we'll get to that later

Joe Anyways, there's a it opens with a flashback

of me. Oh, it's a woman Bruce love like 10 years

ago who's had a lot of crap happen to her both

physically and mentally. She's now an assassin

on her way to Gotham, bumps into the Dark Knight,

basically gets her ass kicked. Batman recognizes

her but Harper Rose kind of Watching interference

because she sees this shady character Again there,

you know still kind of hinting at Harper being

either a next Robin or Stephanie Brown type character

So it's kind of interesting seeing how that's

going But you can tell that the meal characters

kind of lackluster in a sense and Bruce recognizes

her and calls her by name and she kind of loses

it and disappears. But you get to see Raish.

That's interesting. Yes. But yeah, they're further

cementing Harper in the episode, or in the comic,

so I mean it's, you can clearly see they're setting

up for something, but it's obviously not... It's

not gonna be very obvious but you can obviously

tell that she's gonna be the new sidekick Yeah,

despite Batman telling her to take a hike Well,

the thing is I don't know and this will kind

of tie into Batgirl when we get to it but Like

in Batgirl Basically, she's not sure if she wants

to wear the costume anymore, you know sure to

take the bat off right And there's this whole

storyline coming up Batgirl wanted. And that's

going to be really cool. And if she takes the

cape off, remember how you told me once, well,

there can only ever be one Batgirl. Well, if

Barbara takes the cape off, boom, there you go.

Harper Rowe is Batgirl. Or not. They might make

that other chick it. What other chick what her

roommate no the um the other girl that becomes

uh, Oh black bat No, um, I'm still trying to

think of the name of the character It's the one

that likes Damien or was giving Damien lessons.

Oh Carrie Kelly. Yes possibly, but what I'm saying

is if If Harper Rowe isn't going to be the next

Robin, my point here is whether it's her or whether

it's Carrie Kelly, if Barbara puts the bat down,

there you go. There's an opening for a new Batgirl.

Which would suck seeing as how the Barbara book,

seeing as the Batgirl book is doing so well right

now. Anything else on Detective 21? Not really.

Alright, we are going to head to Chicago after

this. Ladies and gentlemen, the world is about

to break where it's already broken. Last month,

for Steve's birthday, I intentionally did this.

First of all, I sent him Batman Beyond 10 ,000

Clowns, the trade paperback collecting the first

13 issues of Batman Beyond Unlimited. But I also,

each month from issue 19 to issue 21, I consistently

bought two copies of Nightwing because I'm actively

going to make sure that Steve gets into this

so he can feel exactly how I feel at this point

where they're going to fucking kill him. But

I sent you 19 to 21. What were your thoughts

on 19 just really quickly? What were your thoughts

on Nightwing 19 and 20? For one I like the cover

of 19 So serious yeah, yeah and all the laughing

and the prankster I I like the fact that Dick

is has gone on his hunt for Tony Zuko and lands

in Chicago. The prankster is quite interesting

how they kind of get into it. It is. Yeah, it's

very, very interesting. But I like the fact that

They have him kind of you know, the prankster

kind of is a cyber terrorist of sorts and manages

to shut off his his eyes Yeah, I know I'm jumping

between issues, but it's I thought that was kind

of nice and then he's kind of Technically blind

but technically not there and he was trying to

you know, the prankster was trying to get Nightwing

to reveal who he really is by taking off the

mask which It wouldn't take much to figure out

who he is Despite the mask Yeah If anybody had

saw him without it, but yeah, I know exactly

that's but it seems like a logical Enemy to Nightwing.

Oh Yeah, well new city new enemies new friends.

I mean, that's kind of the whole point of bringing

him into Chicago So you enjoyed 19 and 20? Yeah.

So getting into 21, I know you haven't seen this

yet, but I've seen Kyle's film that he made,

The League, and it's basically superheroes in

the like... like the roaring 20s kind of not

roaring 20 i don't know it's superheroes in in

olden times it basically calls back to a lot

of batman 66 and that that kind of style and

this is what we kind of have here chicago a few

years ago where um this character who we don't

know at first uh who is uh slip shift comes in

and breaks up a train robbery and Then of course

someone else who is masked comes and takes care

of him for now and It's a very interesting way

to to start the story and then we have the prank,

you know Chicago now the prankster versus Nightwing

and I love I love these some of these titles

these stories just amazing cost of living. I

love that. That's awesome I love how they did

the the s is the is the dollar sign. That's awesome.

I think it's also funny that in 21 that they

make Robin and or not Robin Nightwing and prankster

kind of partners in a sense Yeah, because Chicago

is anti costume Crusaders and Yep, it's it's

funniest thing them having to help each other

and get away Yeah And yeah made the police break

in and then we get a trip I Mentioned this back

in episode. I think it was episode 17 with JT.

I really I get it DC and regular Monthly comics

do ads. I hate how DC spreads their ads out I

really I really do because sometimes it's a page

and I had a page and I just I can't stand it

But I love how I Love how the story progresses

and Nightwing is like I can get you out of here,

but obviously I need to see In order to be able

to do it and you know you mentioned earlier about

him, you know about prankster being a cyber terrorist

and That's a very interesting thing here. And

that's why I think it's the chick from the bedroom.

It's... Dude, it's so not. Are you looking at

these designs on the brinkster? It's so... What's

-his -name Riku from Final Fantasy. You never

know, it could be. She could be wearing some

special armor. It's not the chick from the bedroom.

I would laugh if it was. Just so that I could

say, haha. you know, but I love how I love how

Nightwing has to Has to make a deal with the

prankster and it's it's very interesting and

of course because DC doesn't number their friggin

pages the page where After Nightwing gets him

out of there and he goes where where am I don't

worry about where you are focus on where you

aren't namely inside a jail cell player cards

right here maybe you can keep it that way interested

and then we finally see the prankster without

his mask on and it is an emo dude looking thing

so it's a dude it's not the girl from the bedroom

yeah no she could be wearing a hidden mask that

covers up she had the same skills yeah kinda

And then we get into this whole story of Nightwing

and Prankster teaming up to find Zuko. I just

love all of their quips with each other. It's

just really, really awesome. We find out that

Zuko is attached to Mayor Cole. You know that

there's all that I love the art. I love Brett

Booth's art. It's just amazing I love how he

draws Nightwing. I love the colors on on Nightwing's

costume So Basically and you know here I'm thinking

that Dick is gonna go and let prankster do all

this stuff and of course then we have What are

you doing? I'm gonna look into it and you're

leaving me here That's not what we agreed to

sure it is I said I'd stop hunting you which

I am but don't worry I'll make sure to let the

police know where you're at So he kind of abided

by the deal but kind of not hey he told me to

screw himself Pretty much and then we have dick

Investigating Tony's old old loft because during

this time Tony has pretty much escaped and ran

away and Apparently Tony has a new name now and

it's not Tony Zuko. It's it's something else

and You know, we've got the police detectives

running up to Zuko's place and that's pretty

much how it ends where there's there's there's

no one there and i like the issue i think it's

a great issue it's one of those ones where it's

very interesting to see how a deal with the night

with with nightwing in the prankster would go

uh... like i said before i'm really loving the

art uh... you know i'm i'm really enjoying how

how that's going i love kyle's writing it's absolutely

amazing uh... Just wish it would go on further

and they wouldn't friggin kill the character.

I Have to agree with you. Yeah So after this

I'm gonna get into Batgirl 21 did Grayson Nightwing

had left to establish himself in another city

There were three of us then Bruce myself and

Robin. So up next we have Batgirl 21 And it is

the ventriloquist versus bad girl. I love this

cover. This cover is just sick twisted and I

can't like You you haven't been reading and I

know you've looked at you I think you've looked

at several of my reviews since the ventriloquist

has come in with last month's issue and in that

well not last month, but the issue 20 Love this

new ventriloquist. It's so free it takes What

we know is the ventriloquist and turns it on

its ass We don't know if she's the ventriloquist

or the dummy is the ventriloquist or what the

deal is because it's some sort of new telekinetic

power type of deal thing and I Just absolutely

love it and the cover is just simply amazing

And Guess what happens in this? Somebody dies?

No, well... That's... That girl's soul? Somebody

does die, you know, people do die, but that's

because the ventriloquist is one sick son of

a bitch, but... Well, she is a bitch. Well, yes.

But, guess where we start out with this issue?

Where? Chicago! So that's who kills him. shut

up you ass you've got a a conversation phone

conversation between Barbara and Dick and Dick

is doing some daring do and stopping some robberies

the whole time he's talking to Barbara and and

she's you know sitting on her bed just saying

that I just she's basically at her wits end and

You know it it makes you know it makes reference

to the stuff of the Joker and of course it has

a note see bet you know see Batman 16 for the

the family rift and The whole time Nightwing

is facing up against police officers for some

odd reason. I don't know he's they're chasing

him or something and the art I love Brit Boosard

over Nightwing, like I said before, but Fernando

Passeron, I believe, and Jonathan Glapion, or

Glapion, I don't know how to say his name, I'm

sorry. They draw Nightwing superbly. Nightwing

that shows up in Batgirl is just absolutely cool

looking. And they have all this, and then she

has to go off and find the Ventriloquist. There's

a really cool image of her on a bat -like motorcycle.

This is very, very interesting. But yeah, we

get her going after the ventriloquist because

the ventriloquist from last issue still has that

celebrity singer judge person hostage. And this

is where the ventriloquist gets really interesting.

Because there are times where Shawna the ventriloquist

or the person controlling the dummy supposedly

she She doesn't she mimics people so when Batgirl

arrives She is actually mimicking her hostage

Yeah, it's kind of that whole fake out of Think

of Think of when Green Goblin Trapped spider

-man in the spider -man movie With the screaming

female yeah, and fire see it's basically that

kind of thing where she is she's not throwing

her voice she's basically mimicking the person's

voice and we find out that Shauna had basically

killed her parents, and this is where we find

out that Killed her own parents and this is where

we find out that Shauna is some sort of telekinetic

where she can basically control dead bodies That's

gross Yeah It's a little gross Dead dolls It's

just absolutely awesome it just is it's Is the

story is great. The art is wonderful in Batgirl

Gail Simone is by far one of my favorite female

writers She just is she's just absolutely amazing.

I absolutely love it But no Batgirl 21 very very

awesome book and the ending for the story Basically

she basically saves the day stops stops the ventriloquist

all that stuff and she goes back to her apartment

and her roommates there and apparently she forgot

about the fact that she was gonna have a date

that night with some guy and then it says next

enclosure So next up is A Day in the Life of

Endless Velocity. So that's going to be interesting.

But no, Batgirl, I'm absolutely loving reading

this. I know I need to go back and read Batgirl

1 through 12, but reading from 13 to now, it's

just abs... I can't say enough good things about

the book. It's just amazing. Amazing, amazing

writing, amazing art. All in all, it's just excellent.

So with that, we're going to take another quick

break and then we're going to come back to talk

about Batman and Batgirl. We'll be back in a

moment. I thought talking about it would get

easier over time, but some hurts never go away.

And next up we have Batman and Batgirl number

21, formally titled Batman and Robin. In the

balance... Between life and death the cover is

batgirl with her Basically scratched out bat

symbol holding a scale That has Batman and Robin

Very very interesting cover absolutely love it

What's interesting is I didn't notice this until

now is that she's blindfolded in the cover like

her her she's blindfolded over her mask so that's

that's pretty interesting um you did not read

this one did you no i i i know enough to know

that she doesn't want to be bad girl anymore

she wants to be batman's robin but um this basically

mimics what happened in batman is it 18 yeah

When Harper was trailing Batman, this is basically

that. But instead of having Harper do it, it's

Batgirl doing it. But it's very interesting.

I love how she has an entire conversation with

her father, and he doesn't even know that she's

there. She's on the outside of his office window,

I believe. I think it's his office window. I'm

going to look at the next page here. yeah it

looks like yeah it's either his office window

or the house I don't know it looks to be the

police headquarters but she has a whole conversation

basically with herself to him and that's that's

very very interesting because he's to the point

Gordon is the point where he wants to find her

or find Batgirl I should say and basically make

her pay for killing James jr so she contacts

Alfred to see if she can get a lead on Batman

and she's apparently fairly close they they come

about and she I'm telling you it's basically

you know if you read Batman 18 you read this

it's essentially the same type of things where

he's going to go overboard and she has to be

there to stop him I like it, I think it's cool

and I think it's great that they're doing this

with Barbara versus Harper because Barbara is

a part of the Bat family. I'm not saying anything

against Harper, I like that character, I think

it's cool but to me it resonates more when it's

someone who is a part of the Bat family as Barbara

is. And then of course they come down to it and

as you... Joked earlier, you know, she's like

if you need me to wear this I will wear this

You know and this that you know, it's just the

art is amazing. Don't you? touch it Yeah You

made a bargain with those creeps in the store

to save those hostages now I'll make one with

you I'm tired of hearing about what our uniforms

mean, especially from someone who has pulled

the bat symbol off Where does she say she says

It's not a uniform. It's a shroud damn it a shroud

that my son got impaled like a stuck pig in And

she says this what you need and I Don't need

saving Damien did and he he's just he's just

gone off his rocker he's lost it yeah and um...

up next is uh... catwoman in depression so next

uh... coming up this month here in july batman

and it'll be batman and catwoman twenty two so

it'll be a batman which then that has got me

really intrigued because i've seen i've read

one story so far which we'll talk about at the

close of the show with Batman and Catwoman centrally

involved and I'm really interested to see what

they do with Batman and Catwoman later this month.

So we are going to go to get another clip and

then we're gonna come back to talk about Zero

Year Part 1 Secret City or Secret City Part 1.

I'll be back after this. finally we have batman

number 21 zero year before we even get into it

apparently the covers for zero year are all gonna

be embossed I like it I think it's cool because

the embossed part is around the bat On the bottom

of the cover I really like that around like the

yellow parts with a wing I like that whereas

I believe the Death of the family covers were

kind of popped out a little bit at you I really

I'm really digging this cover We should also

mention that they did Four different variants

for this there was a variant that was done by

another artist. I don't remember who it is. I'm

sorry I think it was I think it was a jock. I

don't know somebody named jock or something or

I don't remember I'm sorry. I don't want to offend

anybody. I just don't remember there was a black

and white cover basically the this same cover

just in black and white and then there was a

red cover the red cover signified that it was

a combo pack which i assume meant that you're

gonna get the comic in print and then in digital

code uh... to have it digitally but uh... but

no i i love the cover it's absolutely awesome

steve is going to have issues with this and i

guess that he does the the the the timeline in

the dc universe in general has never been all

that great with the new fifty two it makes it

even worse as much as i love new fifty two is

a new comic reader not wanting to you know say

batman six seventeen just came out and i you

know i've seen this i've said this for the last

twenty one episodes of this podcast batman six

seventeen just came out so you mean i have to

go back and read all six hundred and sixteen

issues to get caught up uh... so i see where

the whole timeline thing comes in It's a little

strange. Where do we want to start with this

because apparently it's six years ago from what?

Happened in the clay face stories. I guess I'll

start that off like with my complaint and then

we'll work our way through it kid and I kind

of posted about this in the review but Yeah,

my beef with this entire storyline of since the

reboot of the new 52 is There are too many things

that happen in too short of a time. Six years

for Batman to be Batman, from this point to being

the one in issue 20, is not enough time. He is

in like mid to late 30s, in my opinion, by that

point, whereas here he's clearly a teenager.

You need that amount of time to go by otherwise

you don't have Nightwing or you know, you don't

have the four Robins you don't have The first

one Nick Grayson becoming Nightwing you don't

have Jason Todd becoming Robin and then dying

and then coming back as the Red Hood you don't

have Tim Drake becoming Robin and then red Robin

and then you don't have the the mix of Talia

and Bruce creating Damian Yeah, because Damien's

10 fucking years old When he dies as Robin that

none of that accounts for six years So in that

sense, I think that this entire timeline is flawed

just because they labeled it with a time of six

years Not saying that it isn't a good story But

if they would have said 16 years, I would have

been like, oh I can kind of see that Yeah, whereas

they said six years. It's it's like no that's

not nearly enough time for all of that to transpire

Yeah, so In that sense that's that's my complete

beef and that's really the only problem I can

find with the Batman timeline that Snyder has

come up with since the new 52 Right, so that's

that's the only problem I have but no this Takes

you to the polar opposite, you know the the from

the extremely dark demented batman where his

son has died to a fresh look on life batman who's

not quite batman yet because he's in training

and he's looking at the murky city and you know

he's seeing the light at the end of the tunnel

kind of thing it's it's not even we'll get into

it as as as the pages go by but it's not even

murky at this point it oh no it's far from this

entire issue and what we'll get to in a second

but so you have this first page of basically

i would say gotham at at sunrise i i assume and

you've got this um this fish going around this

flooded subway tunnel I think it's a fish. I

I don't know when I first saw this bottom panel

on this very first page I thought it was I honestly

thought people are gonna laugh at me You're gonna

laugh and everybody's just gonna be like what

the fuck are you smoking TfU and Mike? Nothing,

by the way When I first saw this angle of this

fish and you know, Greg Capolo amazing artist

Nothing wrong with his art. But when I first

saw this fish, I thought it was a fucking dinosaur

I thought it was a fucking like mini T -Rex.

It's just the way, if you look at it at the angle

that it's at, it's face, it just, it looks Jurassic

to me. So apparently this kid is fishing in a

subway tunnel. A flooded subway tunnel. And these

guys come up. Um, are these... Or who are these

guys supposed to be because their masks kind

of look like owl masks, but not really I Don't

know. I have no idea No idea who these guys are

supposed to be Absolutely none and then we have

Batman show up which I don't think I I Think

here he's more so Maybe early 20s whereas in

the regular part of the new 52. He's like late

20s early 30s Because that's the other thing

we'll get to this in the backup story. It basically

says Bruce Wayne 19 years old So there's no way

right now in this first part of the story for

zero years Secret City part 1 when we see him

on this motorcycle There's no way he's 19 because

he looks so much younger in the backup story

as at 19. I don't know man I would say 23, 24,

maybe 25. I don't know. I honestly don't know.

I love the purple gloves though. That's a nice

little nod. So we got that and what do you think

of the title cover here? The title is Zero Years,

Secret City Part 1 with all these little imagery

things. I mean it's inventive and I think it's

cool, but I mean I'm kind of indifferent on it.

I thought it was pretty cool. And then we jump

to a very very bright Gotham The city is it's

not red -skied. It's not dark. It's not a It's

not a it's not the dirty city we know Gotham

to be And this is actually five months earlier

than the scene that we just talked about And

we have the red hood or many of them yes the

red hood game oh boy and then we have we have

I believe it's I believe it's Bruce driving this

car or this truck this giant truck and he's basically

attempting what looks like to be an attempt to

To is it was it in Batman and Robin or Batman

forever whichever one the batmobile drives up

the building Yes, what it looks like he's trying

to attempt with this truck when it when he basically

ziplines to the apartment building I Just I love

this the art is absolutely amazing Now I know

you know comics are Not just for kids, but some

comics are made for kids But do we can't we can't

can't can't you let us see him give him the finger

Greg come on We don't really need a Jerry Springer

censored logo do we? Come on What do you think

of the next page is our Gotham City Transit Authority

I don't have it right in front of me. It's four

different panels of the people on the train,

people in the station, the train itself, and

then the bridge. I thought that was a really

cool, and in the center it has a circular logo

that says Gotham City Transit Authority. I thought

that was a really cool way of doing four panels.

Very, very interesting. And then we jump to upside

down. news anchors wow that's creepy that's really

creepy holy crap I didn't realize how creepy

that was um what's really creepy about this and

I think they almost should have done this is

on that on that next page here or everything

is upside down they should have put the the word

balloons upside down so you would actually have

to turn the book to read Anyway, so basically

we have Bruce and Alfred kind of arguing back

and forth about the the future direction and

what he has to do and everything else and We

see Bruce's uncle Philip and he wants to take

him someplace and he takes him down to the new

Wayne Enterprises building and guess what we

see giant penny that's awesome yeah that's the

one that's in Batman's basement later yeah yeah

so I guess you just I guess you did just bring

me here to see the penny I love that that's so

awesome nice Because he wants Uncle Phillips

there's some story here with Uncle Philip of

wanting Bruce to take over the company or wanting

Bruce to step up into that role and he's just

Not ready to do so and there's some behind -the

-scenes shenanigans going on with Uncle Philip

Which we'll get to here in a second, but Bruce

who is wearing a Robin hat Which I thought was

kind of interesting. Which is why he has the

infatuation with it. I know, but... I think it

was kind of lame to do it, but... When I first

read Zero Year, when it first came out, when

I first read Bat 21 last month, when it came

out, I thought it was a nice homage. Looking

at it now, I'm thinking, why would you reference

something that has not happened yet? You know,

I don't know And then we you know see Bruce's

suitcase of masks She's very interesting because

I believe the one on the left is a Lucius Fox

mask And then we find out for that uncle Philip

is in league with Edward enigma Wow And that's

where the Riddler comes in. Yep. And, uh... Capolo,

I'm not sure what his designs or his influences

for Edward's design here, but, um... To me, it

reminds me so much of Jim Carrey. Like, his very

initial introduction in Batman Forever. before

he went crazy when he was more you know you signed

my my slipper my my pay stub I have it I don't

know that look just reminds me of that and then

it basically ends with you have to kill your

nephew Bruce Wayne and he see that's the other

thing that weirds me out cuz It goes from Bruce

being an adult to this this hand holding up this

globe in this well Actually, it's Bruce. It's

not somebody's hand watching Bruce. It's Bruce

holding up this globe thing I believe it's a

globe or a compass or something, but it's young

Bruce and he's finding what looks to It looks

like it's to the it's supposed to be the cave

or some illusion to the fact that he's going

to fall down this hole And it says knocks next

blood in the sky Overall bat 21. I enjoyed it.

I loved reading it. It was a non -stop like like

just absolutely great story, but on further analysis

There are a couple of things here. They're just

like what the hell is going on? Now as hopefully

many of our listeners know specifically those

of you who listen to Steven my eyes uh death

of the family coverage with death of the family

I read none of the backup stories because I just

I just couldn't get into them they were just

not just not for me at all but this this is awesome

Bruce Wayne and where the hell did he learn to

drive uh Rio de Janeiro Bruce age 19 and there's

this Picture of Bruce driving this car and police

chasing him I absolutely love this backup story

this backup story. She's absolutely amazing I

I thought it was kind of cool. I mean I it's

not my favorite, but it's I still it gives the

reasoning to why He can drive the way does yeah

And that title the title for the backup story

where the hell did he learn to drive you know

what that reminds me of where does he get those

toys where does he get those wonderful toys overall

I enjoyed Batman 21 I really really did when

I first read it I absolutely enjoyed it is it

something I'll go back to right away and read

probably not maybe when the the trade gets here

will But I'm absolutely interested to see I cannot

wait for Batman 22 to see what what's going to

like the story is really engrossing regardless

of our our issues with the timeline regardless

of our issues with Robin hats regardless of any

of the little nitpicks And I know the timeline

thing is not really an it's a major flaw It but

the rest of it is almost nitpicks. I'm really

stoked to see where the story goes just can't

believe that they're gonna do this for a whole

year yeah it's one of those far -fetched I can't

really see going that long but oh it's going

to it's gonna go from issue 21 to 32 I believe

oh I know that yeah I don't know I don't know

where it's gonna go and I like not knowing where

it's gonna go I really do So with that we are

gonna take a quick ad break and we'll come back

to close the show after this Coming to Grand

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For more information please visit www .grand

-con .com. Is this thing on? Oh goody! Why hello

there, it's your deviled Uncle Joker here. I

bet you're asking yourself, what could I be possibly

doing here of all places? Well, I'm laughing

at the fact that this new podcast presented by

Keycast Radio is called Legends of the Dark Knight.

Who the heck knew the bat was so popular? Join

Steve, Mike, and sometimes Tava for reviews on

the greatest DC animated universe, Cartoon, to

ever meet Gotham City. So join Moi for the talk

of the town, or I'll send Captain Clown after

you. He gets mighty angry when he doesn't get

to have his garbage skull, so put on a nice big

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Network Podcast, Legends of the Dark Knight!

And welcome back to The Pole Bag. That's right.

Oh boy. I did not write a review for Batman and

Batgirl. So I'm just gonna go off the top of

my head. I'm gonna give that a four and a half

stars out of five Four and a half for us on our

universal rating scale is almost perfect. I really

like the art in Batman and Batgirl I like the

writing. I think that's absolutely amazing What

about your rating for detective? I'd give that

issue probably a three out of five. I I liked

it, but it was kind of a I don't know. I didn't

really see the point in it. I mean I understand

the whole harbor thing, but I just I don't care

I'm almost to the point of like some of them

saying ah screw it depending on the issues What

about Nightwing, what do you give Nightwing 21?

A 4 .5 out of 5 almost perfect Yeah, for me it's

five stars. It's perfect. I'm loving the writing.

I'm loving the art. It's just absolutely amazing.

So five stars for Nightwing. For me on Batgirl,

again, writing is superb. The art is superb.

Just absolutely awesome. I said in my review

that I find it very interesting how well you

can cross over characters with writers and artists

because like when i first saw that night wing

was going to be appearing you know doing a little

guest spot here in batgirl i was like who that

could be interesting but who how are they going

to handle that because i'm so used to kyle writing

him you remember that whole thing of changing

writers for that girl when she and simone got

fired at the time and like i wasn't sure i was

going to be but it was handled very very well

it didn't feel like anything that hadn't that

wasn't what I know New 52 Nightwing to be. For

Batgirl, between the writing, the art, the story,

everything absolute five stars perfect. Zero

Year, what are you giving Zero Year? I'll probably

give it a four. I really liked it, yeah. When

I first read it and wrote the review, I didn't

look at... some of that like I read it and I

read it for what it was and then I wrote my part

of our our dual review and I ranked it five I

ranked it a perfect because it just I want to

see more I want obviously we're going to but

I wanted to see so much more like yeah I know

there's only so much you can do in you know 30

-something pages not including ads I get that,

but it's like, to me, when I first sat down and

read the book, it was just so damn good. I'm

hoping it gets better, just for the fact that

I... I don't know. I hope that it gets better,

because if it doesn't, I don't see myself keep

going with it. Oh, really? Yeah. It's... I don't

know. It wasn't enough to pull me. I can see

that, though. Yep, the other thing I want to

talk about really quickly before we close out

the show is injustice gods among us issues five

and six Issue five focused on the flash issue

six and as the joker said and i'll remind people

joker said they're reading the podcast spoilers

so i'm going to spoil the hell out of this um

and we pretty much already talked about it in

the intro so it's not really a spoiler for steve

when they said back in issue five that you know

batman loses a family member i'm thinking injustice

is going to do exactly what new 52 did with killing

damien But oh no what they do in issue 6 pisses

me off to no end they basically Had Damien kill

dick accidentally There are no words ladies I

just fucking hell Now you know, regardless if

New 52 isn't, regardless if injustice is not

in the New 52, you know DC wants to keep a streamlined

continuity base. You know for a fact that if

someone dies in one of the other books that is

not New 52 or whatever, that somehow it's going

to fit into the New 52. What I will say about

injustice number six specifically is I love the

fact that catwoman kind of shines absolutely

love it uh... she is great one -liners and come

back for superman uh... she she helps batman

mourn the loss of of nightwing uh... i absolutely

love the cover of injustice number six it's superman

standing over batman and catwoman and catwoman

at first i thought she basically spidered batman

but she's it's just her arms that are around

his neck uh... because at first i thought the

cover was her her entire body wrapped around

his, but it's just a badass cover. It really,

really is. I am still writing reviews for Injustice

for as long as it'll go. I think it's gonna go

up to issue 9, and I think that's it. And then

of course after that the events of the game take

over, but I'm really enjoying reading those outside

of the lackluster Wonder Woman issue. What what's

coming up for you for comics, what are you most

interested in coming up? Hoping that Batman year

zero gets better I'm looking and hopefully thinking

that detective will get better as well I'm also

looking forward to seeing what they do with beyond

should they? Whatever direction they tend to

go in for this new storyline whenever that starts

it starts in August so yeah Kyle Higgins takes

over in August they're basically going to advance

it several years it's gonna be a whole new whole

different it's gonna still maintain Adam Beecham's

writing and story from the past 18 issues, but

I think it's issue 19 or 20 where Kyle takes

over and Actually, they're renamed, you know,

I mentioned this last time we talked about bat

books They're renaming it and they're renumbering

it Batman Beyond Universe number one Whatever,

that's fine. I I see why they're doing it because

it's a new right, but Honestly, I think it's

stupid because they've done this every time they

change a writer Well, they haven't well They've

had like four or five different volumes of this

stupid... Yeah. The thing is, is that what's

funny to me is, I'll see an advertisement in

any of these books that I read from DC. Green

Lantern number 21. With a new creative team.

So you're gonna keep the numbering scale for

Green Lantern, but you're not gonna keep the

numbering scale for Batman Beyond Unlimited?

That's a little weird. Even though I know Batman

Beyond Unlimited is outside the new 52, but still

it's still strange Yep, or in the listeners find

you online Twitter and all that stuff SCP 21

Mine is TF2 on Mike and we will catch you Actually

in about 24 hours when optimus solo and I yes

really optimus solo on a comic podcast even though

he hasn't read a comic a day in his life almost.

We go through the three origin books, He -Man,

Skeletor, and Hordak, with Masters of the Universe

Origins from DC Comics. And then after that,

Episode 23 or Episode 24, I'm not sure what's

gonna happen for the pull bag. Later on in July,

you may get another Bat Book dose, depending

on... Whether Steve and I pick up all the books

in time or not, but not sure exactly what's gonna

happen and then the big 25 issue or episode 25

for pullback will be DC pre and post new 52 Just

kind of like how I did Marvel then Marvel now

and episode 20 of the podcast. So there is that

Want to thank movie revolt Dan and I believe

it's slash film I have to look it up actually

We actually have two iTunes reviews for the pull

bag Movie revolt Dan who was one of our colleagues

the pull bag five -star review left on May 4th

to 2013. The pull bag just recently started,

but it already shows great potential. There is

a lot of podcasts about comics, but I tend to

enjoy the ones most that have hosts who love

what they read. They are critical at times, but

never in that nerd rage way so many other comic

book podcasts fall into. Well, then after this

episode, my nerd rage for the fact that they're

going to kill my favorite character kind of went

off a little. A little there. SuperFilmFan66

left a review back on April 28th, 2013. Best

comic podcast. Great new podcast on comics I

have listened to in a while. So thank you for

the two reviews on iTunes. Absolutely awesome.

You can always leave us iTunes reviews anytime

you want. For now, I am TF2 and Mike with Steve

Megatron Phillips. And be sure to make your great

escape into comics. We will catch you next time.

I'm not hearing this. I give the punchlines around

here. Got it? You just heard the latest episode

of The Pullback, GCRN's comic book review podcast.

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