Ryan the UnEvenFlow on Comic Reading Origins and Marvel vs. DC

I give the punchlines around here. Got it? Welcome

to... The Pole Bag. Join us as we dig out our

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rights reserved. Terms, conditions, restrictions

apply. We clear, bub. Yes, sir. Hello, and welcome

to The Pole Bag. This is episode 19. I am your

host, TFJoneMike, and we are doing yet another

Origins episode this time around. For those of

you who don't know or haven't listened, first

of all, why haven't you? Second of all, The origins

episodes is where i bring in people that i want

to talk to about comics and how they get into

them and what they're reading now and what their

opinions are now and probably the internet will

break as soon as we publish this episode because

we have ryan the uneven flow hello hello by the

way it should be noted that's a nickname that

you gave me and that i'm still using Where's

my dollar every time it said yeah, you'll get

paid as soon as I do. Yeah, I know You do it

for the love of the game jeez God no bad Kevin

Costner movie ah Billy Chappell, holy shit not

what I was attending to reference, but sure whatever

Yeah Oh God so yes, we are here and You know

I gotta give some background here before we get

into this because When I started listening to

podcasts in 2007 oh god Can't believe it's been

that long. I had found TF wire and TF wire had

gone through several changes Jesse had pretty

much lost interest in the fandom Lost interest

in the brand and he handed it over to you and

and and Spada the vault matrix and I'm one of

those audiophiles where if I don't like what

I hear I won't listen and by audiophile I mean

like if I don't like the sound of someone's voice

I won't listen And it's funny that you and I

are getting along and talking now because it

was like the biggest issue I'd always had with

you was just the way that you sound. And I know

it's your style and I know it, you know, but...

Actually, it's not my style. My voice really

does sound like this. Well, of course. I have

no ability to control inflection, unfortunately.

I know, but like your style of humor as far as...

That's true. Yeah, I got sort of the mystery

science theater self -deprecating humor. Yeah,

and I was like, yeah, I don't particularly care

to listen. But over the years, I mean, we worked

with Twig for a while and, you know, we have

similar interests and whatever else. So I figured,

hey, why not make it interesting and have a different

Canadian invade this show? Because I also work

with JT from Saskatoon, who is by far the strangest

thing the country of Canada has ever. Really

cuz I've always felt thought he and I need to

get on the on the same podcast at some point

because we're actually pretty similar Which is

a little scary. Are you more of a Marvel or a

DC guy? That's tough. I know I know it's I know

it's starting out with the hard questions I thought

you'd softball me with how did you get into it?

No, I mean it says since we're talking about

JT I I need to I need to know are you more like

Are you just like in between are you like right

down the middle you stand on one thing is a couple

years ago I would have said to you that I'm more

of a fan of Marvel's characters And I'm more

of a fan of DC's writers since that time Brubaker

Wade Rucka and others have jumped ship From DC

to Marvel. So unfortunately that makes it a little

easier for me. I still have faith in DC. They

still have some very good writers, by the way.

I mean, Grant Morrison's still writing for them,

even though I'm not a huge fan of his. But Scott

Snyder's fantastic. Jeff Lemire is amazing. Gail

Simone, who we talked about earlier, like before

we started recording. There's still quite a few

but man it's tough because I mean Marvel right

now is countering Dan Slott's doing really well

on Spider -Man. I've always been a huge fan of

Rucka and Brubaker. I mean Gotham Central is

one of my all -time favorite reads. NS still

writes for Marvel once in a while and he's one

of the heavy hitters and then you've got some

of their new guys like Jason Aaron who I absolutely

love and yeah it's tough. The one thing I'll

say too is, and I will argue this to death with

people, overall the writing in comics right now

is better than it's ever been. And when I say

overall, I mean like from top to bottom. Less

than 70 years. Yeah, but I mean from top to bottom

it's better. There might not be, say, an 80s

Alan Moore, like somebody writing at that level

consistently, but from top to bottom everything

is improved. The argument I'd make is that the

poor writers right now are better than the poor

ones back then and there's more very good to

good writers right now than there were. There

was a couple standouts and then it was all kind

of mediocre in that period and then the 90s in

a lot of ways were kind of a dark ages for comics

but really in the 2000s it seems like ... You're

a fan of a certain character. You're pretty much

guaranteed that at some point There's been a

really good writer on him in the last little

bit, and I think that's really cool So the whole

reason why I even asked you that right off the

bat was because oh sorry well we Well, we we

brought up JT and you're like we should I should

be on a podcast with him one day Episode 20 and

episode 25 we are going to be tackling episode

twenty will be marvel then marvel now so original

marvel you know before their copycat of dc's

relaunch and then the relaunch so and then episode

twenty five we're doing dc pre and post new fifty

two so i'm thinking next week will have you and

j t on if we can get your all schedules to work

out uh... for the Marvel episode, there you go.

Interesting, although I could definitely do both.

I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie, one of

the things that moved me away from DC a bit was

the launch into the new 52. I certainly think

there's been good and bad with it, the good is

obvious stuff, like somebody like you being able

to get into it without as much of the history

and stuff. Yeah, I know, like, you know, I've

said this, we're 19 episodes into this podcast

here, and I've said it several times. The biggest

problem I had originally with, you know, the

old continuity was, oh hey, oh my god, Fantastic

Four, and I'm just using them as an example,

Fantastic Four 6 .11 is out today, and it's amazing,

but it ties into everything you've ever read.

So I'm thinking, Crap, you mean I have to go

back and get the last 610 issues. No, thanks

That's what Wikipedia is for but I mean, yeah

No, I mean I know people like that that they

want to start things and and know them from the

beginning it's the same sort of issue with Doctor

Who and other stuff that's been running a long

time, but I Mean and and while the new 52 Sort

of wiped a lot of that away It really hurt some

of the characters who haven't rebounded an example.

That is I've liked Green Arrow quite a bit, but

it really until issue 17 his entire run so far

has been absolute crap And they've finally got

a steady team Writing for him now, and it's improved

significantly, but he's a character that suffered

I was a fan of the idea of a female Robin and

so I liked Stephanie Brown She is basically well

actually no she has resurfaced in the new 52

now, but All that history the fact that she was

actually Robin and everything's kind of been

wiped away so the stuff like that too that it

just a lot of it depends on which character you're

a fan of and You know alternatively we talked

about this before the open to their other characters

like Green Lantern where the opposite has sort

of happened like in the standard 52 universe,

Kyle Rayner and John Stewart got completely shifted

aside by Jeff Johns because he always or he grew

up with Hal Jordan and that's who he wanted to

write. So that's what he did. He basically got

rid of the other two and at one point was going

to kill John Stewart off completely. And luckily

that was taken out. But I mean, the two of them

just aren't featured. It's, it's a Kyle or Kyle

Rainer. Yeah. Let's try that again. It's a Hal

Jordan book. Yeah. well and and see you know

that's the good thing about the new fifty two

it's kind of it's kind of a blessing and a curse

with batman and green lantern as most people

know neither one of them got a full reboot full

reset because the writers of those books have

been working on stories for the past year they

didn't want to throw that away uh... so with

green lantern they they have held jordan book

Core which is Stuart's book new guardian, which

is Kyle's book And I have larflis your favorite

Don't know why I mean he was cool in the ad that

the current as of now cancelled the Green Lantern

animated series. It was nice to see The character

because I don't know the character is but you

know you've got those four with plus Red Lantern

so five Five Green Lantern books and then Batman

you've got Batman himself has what four or five

different books. You got Batman you got Batman

and Robin Dark Knight detective comics You know,

so you've got so many damn different Batman and

friends Batman eats dinner Yeah, just for Batman

and don't get me wrong. I love Batman just like

the next guy But it's like holy crap and then

you've got Batgirl Nightwing Birds of Prey Which,

the only reason why I started collecting Birds

of Prey, as you mentioned earlier about how they

start new creative teams. People are gonna love

this. I only started reading Birds of Prey at

I think issue 18 or 19, whenever it was that

Kristy Marks, the creator of GEM, came on the

book. because i like her writing i like her style

you know i you know say you know people and this

is off topic in a tangent people can say what

the hell they want about gem my opinion on gem

is it's a cartoon not just for girls there's

explosions there's you know stage things going

on there's people falling off waterfalls it's

not just about who girly fashion it isn't at

all it is also an eighties boys cartoon if you

look at it you know in depth but that's a discussion

for another day so Let's wind the clock back.

When did you first get into comics? Like, was

it a parent or a grandparent or a family member

when you were a kid? How did you get into comics,

Ron? Probably unsurprisingly, the answer sort

of goes into Transformers. But I mean, my brother

collected Transformers. He's six years older

than I am, so he was into them before I was.

And along with that, he also Started or at least

he got some of the comics not a whole lot But

that was kind of my introduction into comics

was a licensed comic in this case. It was Transformers

Now unfortunately for me he read them and I read

them during the very early sort of run the not

particularly good Times when it was Bud Budiansky

and a bunch of other Sort of writers basically

before the Simon Furman years when they started

to try to tie everything together Which was kind

of nice not only that but I mean Furman would

use a lot of the underused or never used characters

Which was kind of cool if you're a kid and you

had some of those toys but like I say I wasn't

reading it at that point unfortunately for me

and Yeah, so I mean that was pretty much my introduction

from that I would end up kind of doing the same

sort of thing a lot of kids do Archie comics

and stuff like that In terms of like Marvel in

DC I had knowledge of them but not much like

my brother would read certain Marvel comics Usually

stuff with like Wolverine or the Punisher like

the anti heroes from the early 90s late 80s and

stuff that were pretty popular So I mean I had

knowledge of it. I wasn't into it, but I was

aware of it and another one thing that really

helped with that too was X -Men the animated

series Oh, yeah, which you know, I watched as

a kid and everything and Obviously like later

on to Batman the animated series, which I think

pretty much all of us Watched and have watched

since then probably as well too. I still watch

it. It's awesome So, I mean the cartoons helped

a lot and there's this giant gap like from the

time I was a kid until roughly about 1999 that

I really didn't read comics all that much and

in 99 I just started collecting and probably

I want to say like mid to late 2000 was when

I really started into it and then since then

I've just bought a ton of things I've gone back

I've got literally let's see yeah I'm up to three

full bookshelves of trades now And I mean full

they are massive and I've got like entire runs

of a lot of series and things like that so It's

weird like I've got all the knowledge of the

stuff that happened in the 80s and 90s and how

something like Watchmen and the Dark Knight Returns

Really really changed Comics and everything,

but I wasn't necessarily reading them at the

time But you know, thanks to my brother I'm aware

of what they were before the those books came

out and then what they changed to afterwards.

Although you can also go out and buy trades and

see that now too. Buy a book before Watchmen

came out and then buy one a couple of years after.

There's a pretty noticeable difference there.

Aspect of my personality is like hey single issues.

Yay It's one of those things where I prefer reading

the trades like part of that too is things have

really changed like a lot of writers now write

for trade paperback more than they do single

issues the days of every issue Ending on some

sort of cliffhanger or something like that are

kind of gone. A lot of it is They're writing

a six issue arc and so it ends up reading better

when you can get those six issues together Right.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, no doubt I will say the one thing

and we kind of we covered it a couple episodes

ago. Yeah The one thing that threw me off about

a six -issue miniseries was the 2012 Masters

of the Universe. When I first read that book,

as I said way back in episode 14 of the show,

when I first read it, I didn't get the full grasp

of what the situation actually was. All I saw

was, Adam is a farm boy, not a prince. And I'm

like, uh, yeah, no, close. Just close the book

right now. uh... but no my my whole plan with

comics now is is waiting for the trade is just

excruciating it just is so you have like for

me i have to get the single issues state current

state you know enticed with the books and what

i'll just do is I'll take all the back issues

I have or the ones that I've collected to this

point and I'll just take them out to my comic

shop and I'll say, hey, I want to trade these

in for store credit. And that way I can either

get whatever the trades are of those same books.

And people might say, oh, you're basically wasting

money. It's not a waste of money. I'm going to

spend the money regardless anyway. Yeah, that's

not a bad way to do it. I'd rather have a collection

of free paperbacks than right now. I can look

at my bookshelf. My two biggest stacks are IDW

and DC Because Marvel just Outside of what Dan

slot's doing with spider -man. I just I don't

know where to begin with Marvel I just don't

and like you said earlier with you know we grew

up watching the x -men cartoon and spider -man

cartoon and all that stuff and It's just yeah,

I'm just sticking to one character with Marvel

For me, yeah, I mean the number of issues individual

issues I buy per week or per month have gone

down significantly I mean trying to go through

the list mentally I do pick up Batman Beyond

when it comes out just because I always loved

the show and still enjoying the books I like

the idea of it continuing So there's that. Wolverine

in the X -Men, which is written by Jason Aaron.

Aaron, more than a lot of other writers, writes

individual issues really well and small arcs.

And his current ability to, he'll write this

really poignant issue, but then the next one

will be so tongue -in -cheek and exactly like

something like Evil Dead, like intentionally.

bad or cheesy. I mean, he introduced the League

of Nazi bowlers in an issue once as a group of

villains, which was fantastic. It included dialogues

such as, strike down the mutant heathen as if

he were a 7 -10 split. That is so terrible. It's

awesome and he's got this weird he's able to

sort of walk that line He can write really good

issues that will make you feel something and

then he'll write issues that are so out there

that you end up laughing as if it were You know

army of darkness or a mystery science theater

episode. So there's that I'm Recently started

picking up the transformer stuff again because

James Roberts is doing a really good job with

it And he's He's amazing. Yeah, he's ground to

me in a way that a lot of the other ones didn't

and actually I jumped back into it because of

Simon Furman doing the Regenesis series, which

is a continuation of the old Marvel comics Regeneration

one. Yeah, sorry and it's I mean it's been 20

years or so since he Ended it and now he's getting

the chance to actually end it the way he wanted

to That's kind of cool. I am really enjoying

reading that. And other individual issues, Superior

Spider -Man, because I like what Dan Slott's

doing. That to me is just so... I know several

people that are like, ooh, Doc Ock is Spidey,

no thanks. And I'm thinking, and I've said this

many times before on the show, There are only

so many stories you can tell with Peter Parker

what Dan slot did from the end of from 699 698

to 700 what he did with spider -man and what

he's doing in superior spider -man is just so

Original unique and something I've never seen

both you know I've never heard of the part of

the issue here and this is an argument longtime

fans will make to is Part of it is that you're

not allowed to change Peter Parker famously Joe

Mike Joe Michael Straczynski did the writer Babylon

five did a exceptionally long arc on Spider -man

which I quite liked with the exception of the

terrible sins of the past storyline, but less

said about that the better, but he had a really

long arc and just sort of Actually like multiple

arcs in this and I liked it a lot. He changed

Peter made him grow up He was no longer the photographer

You know, he had he was now a teacher He didn't

have the same concerns. He had as a teenager

and the usual stuff and Then famously Joe Casada

came along and changed everything back immediately

and tossed out everything JMS had done in his

run Well, that was sort of an example of you

You're just for whatever reason Marvel won't

let some of their characters change and unfortunately

Parker seems to be one of them now luckily They've

kind of left that alone with Dan slot Unfortunately,

I get the impression that as soon as slot leaves

somebody's gonna reset it again But I mean for

the time being his arc exists the JMS thing just

really ticked me off because they wiped out any

evidence of that arc forever uh... they undid

take every portion of its just having a reset

by the devil spoiler alert uh... and just fixing

it all up so that everything is just the same

and peter was back at school he wasn't married

to marry jane again and and they was alive and

didn't know he was spider -man and you did you

it basically i don't mind if i may as alive yeah

i'm fine with that to you i don't mind that but

it's like as a you know thirty three -year -old

adult i don't want to see like i know the teenage

version of peter parker i know that i've ever

watched the cartoon i've read some of the old

older ninety nineties comics i prefer it to be

he's married and jane whether they have spider

girl or not as another story but you know it's

one of those things where i prefer adult parker

versus teenage parker yeah and i mean I think

there's something to be said, too, for getting

to see the character either move on or have to

deal with something. In the case of something

like Aunt May's death, we were denied seeing

how he would deal with that or anything. So it

was a little weird. I'm happy that Slott's been

given this chance. I'm hoping he gets to write

the arc he wants to write and it doesn't get

cut off or anything. I know there's been a lot

of people Angry at him to the point that he actually

has bodyguards Yeah, he so somebody sent him

death threats. Yeah, I'm thinking this is over

a comic book Okay, sure. Don't get me wrong.

Don't get me wrong. I love comics now I've always

had an appreciation for comics, but obviously

recently As of last October, you know, I love

comics now and it's like it's a freaking comic

book It's a story. It's I mean it's that's like

sending the people of Armada death threats Yeah,

it's but it's like it makes no damn sense to

me on the other hand though. It is I mean, it's

not too surprising. I mean a lot of these fiction

Yes, they're fictional characters, but a lot

of people feel attached to them No, and I understand

that but I mean attached to the point of oh my

god I'm going to send the writer a death threat.

That's yeah board. That's a little yeah That's

a little stocky kind of thing. Yeah, that's bad.

And I mean I've seen a lot of characters. I mean,

I like seeing What happens afterwards and certain

things too with some of these characters For

example, I love Jason Aaron And when he took

over on The Punisher Max, which was one of my

favorite series, and he took over for Garth Ennis,

talk about shoes to fill. I mean, when people

list the top three comics of all time, you'll

see three of the same ones pretty frequently.

A lot of people will say Watchmen. or Sandman,

or Preacher, or a combination of one of those.

And Ennis' 2000 Punisher run is known as one

of the best in comics as well. Whenever you ask

for a top 10 list, it appears frequently in those,

too. So having to take over for him's gotta kinda

suck. But he really made the character his own,

and then more surprisingly, or awesomely, he

was able to kill off the character, and he actually

had an issue afterwards that sort of showed the

fallout. And there's something neat about that.

There's something different probably because

a lot of us Don't believe these characters are

gonna die like when you read Batman Whatever

Batman 400 or you know, whatever it is You don't

think that the mugger Batman's about to beat

up is gonna get lucky and stab him Yeah, it's

probably not gonna happen. So you may be denied

seeing you know that and It's It's not necessarily

a good thing. It's you know, it's a story opportunity.

That's not Going to present itself. Unfortunately,

and it's kind of neat to see fallout from things

and Granted, you know comics get reset a lot

and characters that are dead. I mean Jean Grey's

come back What is it? I think 14 times or something

I'm not joking like through the different continuities.

I think it's that's the number but I could be

wrong and So yeah That's a tad excessive, maybe

not the best example. But I mean, there's always

that feeling that somebody else is going to take

over. And again, one of the nice things about

comics is there's different interpretations of

the character each time. I mean, when Scott Snyder

writes Batman, it's not the same character that

Jeff Loeb wrote in Under the Red Hood. Not Under

the Red Hood. I always get Loeb in Winning. That's

John Winnick who actually sort of like as well

too might I add but anyway like Jeff lobe wrote

in Yeah, long Halloween. There we go. Yeah, why

could I not remember one of the seminal thing?

Anyway, or Frank Miller's Batman in Dark Knight

returns I mean it's different each time and then

Chris Nolan wrote and had like a completely different

Batman in the movies. So I mean it's neat to

see different people's interpretations or how

they feel about the characters and that's one

cool thing that comics can do that other mediums

don't get to do very often. Yeah there's there's

one long run for Batman and animation though

between BTIS and and JLU. Justice League Unlimited

that was even though it wasn't always Bruce Tim

or Paul Dini or whoever writing it each episode

that Batman was starring in They like those cartoons

as we mentioned before There's some of the best

ever it is but you still got to see different

interpretations of him even through that I mean

the one of my favorite interpretations of Batman

actually comes from what would be sort of the

finale for Batman Beyond and that's you know,

the episode epilogue, which was the second season

finale to Justice League Unlimited Where we saw

Batman comforts ace as she knows she's dying

and that was a very different Batman then is

in most of the other episodes of that show and

certainly different from a lot of the comic books

I Mean, that's the cool thing about comic book

characters, you know people may be mad at Dan

Slott for what he's doing with spider -man But

guess what in probably a couple years or so They'll

have the opportunity to see somebody else's interpretation

of it. Maybe it's Doc Ock still maybe it's Peter

Parker again, but you know, hey whatever at least

it's still around and You know you mentioned

that there's you know, we talked about it There

are bad points to some of these series being,

you know 1200 issues in or whatever, but there's

good points like that that at some points you

can jump in and read a version of the character

you really like or identify with I'll say this

too. One of the other cool things about a lot

of the writers now is The really good ones can

write a character or write the character or the

book so that you don't need any past knowledge

of it. Oh Well, yeah exactly and the perfect

example of that at least for me is is Kyle Higgins

on Nightwing because everybody knows The origin

of Dick Grayson. Yeah, his parents got murdered

He became Bruce Wayne's ward. He was the first

Robin but what Kyle is doing and what he's been

doing the entire run on Nightwing is he's expanding

on all of that storyline and at this point by

the time this gets released we will probably

have had Nightwing 22 and he's doing things with

Dick Grayson that Are awesome and amazing and

it doesn't have to rely on the fact that he was

once Batman's sidekick at all He's writing the

character. Yes, there are Was it 20 or not? By

the time this podcast out no not 22 21. I'm sorry

nightwing 21 in Nightwing 20 there's a line where

he gives the prankster two options and When I

read that It gave me a chuckle what the second

option was but I heard it in my head I always

hear like whoever voiced the the character like

when I read Batman Whoever is writing it whether

it's Scott Snyder whether it's I will always

forever hear Kevin Conroy in my head Yeah, the

same thing. I hear Mark Hamill whenever I read

the Joker. Yep. Yeah With Nightwing, I will forever

hear Lauren Lester in my head as far as the voice.

And I can just hear Lauren saying, you know,

you've got two options, blah, blah, blah, blah,

blah, blah. And it was just such an amazing line.

And it's just, it's so awesome seeing this writer.

that actually lowly name decreases his favorite

character and i love the dc is having people

or as writers on their books that this is their

favorite like they wouldn't want to be doing

anything else at this moment you know i mean

i love that i think that's great yeah i mean

that's why uh... i wasn't a fan of jeff johns

did with green lantern But for people who did

enjoy it, I don't have a lot bad to say about

it. I mean, he was still a capable writer. It's

just, you know, he wasn't my Green Lantern in

those, and so that's why I kind of moved away

from it. The same sort of thing happened with

The Flash. I mean, they completely dumped poor

Wally West just to bring back Barry Allen. I

hate to say it, but Barry Allen didn't exist

in the time I was watching comics. Actually,

you could say the same about Hal Jordan as well.

He would be mentioned. Actually, both of them

would be mentioned, but I didn't grow up with

them. Then in the animated shows I watched, they

were not characters in it. Barry got mentioned

in Justice League, and Hal showed up for a few

seconds. There and so the changes just feel a

little bit jarring I will say that I've kind

of come around to Hal Jordan, but only in animation

I don't I don't I have yet to get into Green

Lantern as far as the the current state of Green

Lantern comics, but in animation I will say over

time what DC Universe doing these animated films

and stuff. I've come to enjoy certain interpretations

of how like uh... new frontier with uh... angel

david borian is voicing him i love the fact that

david borian is voice tell jordan i thought that

was a lot of thoughts uh... philian makes a pretty

good story does well and job yes he does i like

him you can tell he loves the character to which

is a part of it as well although i know uh...

borian is does is as well too it's funny because

you'll notice that you know a lot of people that

are I hate to say this, but I mean a lot of people

that are older love Tal Jordan and I mean they

grew up with them and that's that's the Green

Lantern they know Yeah Yeah Yeah, so what okay,

so you you mentioned earlier off the top of your

head what Are you reading both more than meets

the eye and robots in disguise? Are you reading

both of them? Are you just reading one? I started

out reading a crud which one is on lost light

Yeah, I started out reading More Than Meets the

Eye then. Part of that too was a lot of the Transformers

I liked reading about or seeing as a kid, like

Fort Max and some of the others are on Lost Light.

I also always felt that Rodimus Prime got a bum

deal in the animated series and everything. I

realize Rodimus is a version of Hot Rod, not

Prime, but anyway. Right seeing him and that's

kind of nice and that sort of thing So I started

out with it and I've kind of gone back through

more than meets the eye and I do pick up both

monthly now and The majority of the one shots.

I've been picking up as well, too I have some

of the one shots. I need to get the rest of them

The the spotlights for me with more than meets

the eye the only reason and we've already covered

it It was a couple episodes ago My buddy ender

at ender hates on Twitter. He uh There's one.

I don't one night nine ten o 'clock at night.

He was like oh my god I will never see the origin

of shockwave ever again the same way ever again,

and I'm like what are you talking about and It

happens in issue 11. I don't like well. Do I

really need to read the first ten? He's like,

yeah, you got it. So he basically twisted my

arm, and I got the first three volume trades.

Yeah, we got a pretty quick version of his origin,

though. But that was damn funny. A no -name senator

throughout the entire run through Death of Optimus

Prime, the one -shot that's start. Because to

me, with the current IDW stuff with the two ongoings,

Death of Optimus Prime one -shot starts it. And

then you can go down both roads or one or the

other. You can go down More Than Meets the Eye,

you can go down Robots in Disguise, or you can

read them both together. And it was one of those

things where I was like, hmm, who is that no

-name senator? What is going on there? And then

you reach the last page of issue 11 of More Than

Meets the Eye, and you're like, oh my, no, what

the hell? Yeah, and I mean one thing for me as

a comic book fan has been even if I love a character

if I don't like Where it's gone I'll leave I'll

stop reading and I mean that happened with me

and IDW's Transformers because I read through

the all hail Megatron Storyline, which I think

a lot of people disliked to put it mildly I would

actually say the sixth issue I think it was issue

six Maybe it was nine one of those of that series

was debatably the worst issue of Transformers

that's ever been put together and that's saying

something but I had but so I mean I've You know,

I jumped off of it at that point and I've done

that with other series to jumping on jump off

now I find I follow a lot of Are a lot of authors

more than I follow the characters now, but there's

still certain Characters, I try to keep up on

but if the author is not somebody I like but

like I said before in general I'd say from top

to bottom. It's we've had mostly really good

authors everywhere pretty much so Yeah, it's

just It's right now. It's an amazing time To

get into comics it just is because as we've already

stated there's so much There's so much good writing

going on Well, what's funny is like you've talked

about the I mean everything you've listed are

either ongoing or licensed properties At some

point I should give you a list of some of the

stuff that's long Gone and that was a short series

or stuff like that that doesn't necessarily involve

like superheroes and the like because there's

a lot of that too and there's a little bit of

You know everything for everybody Again, it's

one of the sort of appeals for comics that I

know a lot of people that won't read superhero

comics because there's no ending I mean for the

most part there's no ending on occasion there

has been Punisher max was mercifully one that

did which I loved I loved the fact that he aged

in real time too, which was awesome Which meant

he had to die at some point because there's no

way he's gonna Be offing criminals in his 70s

later etc etc so I mean I like that yeah yeah

I mean Punisher is not the goddamn Batman so

I liked that well I mean in a lot of ways he

is it's just for whatever reason Batman doesn't

age at all actually neither does the Punisher

in the normal Marvel universe this was one they

took him out of it which was kind of nice but

I mean I know people that can't get into the

superhero books because they know there's no

real danger of, say, Superman dying and staying

dead. I know he's died before, obviously. Yeah,

there's that. There's other stuff I can point

them to that the characters do stay deceased

and that does have an ending or will have an

ending. Some of that's superhero books, too.

There's alternate universes and everything else

that have really the same character. You know

taken out of that universe so the author can

actually play with them and do things with them

Or not. So, you know, it's one of the appeals

of That it's one of the appeals of the new 52

and others So I don't know like there's more

people getting into comics as well, too I realize

individual issue sales are down from month to

month year to year But man the trade paperback

sales are up nearly 20 % So there's a lot more

people buying it and I think in a lot of ways

as much as I Well, I don't hate to admit it I

feel bad almost favoring one company over another

when I say this but I think you kind of have

to The Marvel movies are really responsible for

a lot of this. I mean, like them or not, they've

gotten a ton of people into comics. And you notice

every single time a new movie comes out, everybody,

like the newspapers and stuff will have a list

of like, these are the 10 best books to read

about this character. And then if you look at

the sales and everything, those are basically

your top 10 for that month. Well, that's because

Marvel has such It's not that DC doesn't know

DC is just done thing DC just won't let people

play in their playground a lot of the time because

Somebody like Paul Dini says I can you know direct

you would make you a Justice League film that

people Absolutely love and they go. Well, you're

a comic book writer. You can't write movies go

away That's that's more so Warner than DC. Yeah,

sorry I should say yeah should have and and and

that's the that's the problem like Marvel even

with Disney, even with Mickey Marvel. Marvel

has always, whether it's Disney, whether it's

Fox, whether it's Sony, whoever has the licensing

to a character, They've always brought in people

that knew the character or knew the origins or,

you know, and they've done damn well with the

live action movies. DC, because of Warner's,

oh my god, you guys are just the comic guys,

go away, go to this corner, because Warner Brothers

has that attitude, you only get... Couple of

watch every ten years or a superman movie every

every six or seven years and that's all they'll

do Well watch any Justice League cartoon or any

of Bruce Tim or Paul Dini stuff and tell me that

they couldn't put together a live -action film

That would be amazing they so totally good and

that's the problem though Is that we look at

that and and say that but they look at it and

go like it's just a cartoon or it's just comic

books They can't do a serious It's funny now

because this week, I think it was this week,

maybe last week, Captain America was released

on Blu -ray. When I say Captain America, I mean

the piece of junk film from the 90s. Unfortunately,

that's still how I think most of the people at

Warner Brothers see comic book films. They don't

see the Marvel stuff. They don't see Avengers

or Iron Man or anything like that. That's a mistake

and I also think that's hurting DC the comic

book company because they don't have that pull.

I mean ask a housewife who Tony Stark is and

half of them know of them now. Ask them to name

Green Lantern. Oops. Well, well ask them to name

Green Lantern and they'll say oh, that's that

Van Wilder kid, isn't it? Yeah, well I'm sorry.

I can't I will never be able to let that go.

That is the worst Worst fucking casting in comic

book movie history. I would have read I'm not

a fan of Superman returns at all whatsoever I

would have rather had Brandon Ralph cut his cut

and die his hair and be held jordan walking bandwild

over don't get me wrong ron ronalds can act in

certain situations i think the only movie i've

actively enjoyed him in was safe house but that

also has been zill in it but this beside the

reasonably solid and buried there are a lot of

uh... but my point here is is they tried to make

held your neck me character yes how for the most

part from what i've seen an animation and when

i've heard comics he does have snarky does have

uh... you know uh... a snip to his attitude in

a sense of humor but he is not what ryan reynolds

comedy is i would have rather had uh... honestly

i would rather had harry potter i think i would

have read the redcliffe as is held you know you're

saying but I would argue that a lot of that is

in the writing that maybe Reynolds could have

pulled it off But poor writing and the fact is

like watching it. It felt like I was watching

one of the old 90s late 90s, maybe early 2000

Marvel films something like the old Fantastic

Four movies where It wasn't completely off the

rails bad or anything like that But you could

tell that there was an element of sort of seriousness

or drama that they weren't taking seriously.

That somebody along the line, somebody that was

making it somewhere said, well this is just a

comic book movie. And it's weird because the

first time I think that, well I shouldn't say

it's the first time, it's happened before in

the past. There have been good comic book movies

from the 90s. Something like The Crow was a solid

comic book film. and took the subject matter

pretty seriously. Until they made 20 sequels

for it. I don't know what you're talking about.

It's weird. There was never any Crow sequels,

just like they never made any sequels to Highlander

or anyway. But I mean... You keep on believing

that. Yeah, I try to. It helps me sleep at night.

But no, like... And for comic book films, there

was a bit of a lull. There were some solid ones

in between. But for superhero movies, There wasn't

a lot for a really long time and then a long

sort of came Yeah, there was that And I would

also argue to a certain extent the Incredible

Hulk took it a lot more serious not Ang Lee's

I mean the later one. Yeah Took it a lot more

seriously, but obviously like the main two I

would look at that came out the same year Or

not the same year. Sorry around not far from

each other that one definitely influenced another,

and that's Batman Begins and Iron Man. I know

Iron Man came out a decent amount later, but

most definitely you could tell Batman Begins

influenced it in a lot of ways. And they're both

very good and very different movies, but you

could tell that the people making them didn't

say well it's a comic book movie we can just

ignore that or we don't need to have a good plot

or interesting something or you know we don't

need to explain everything it's just a comic

book film there was none of that they took it

seriously yeah yeah yeah taking the the subject

matter seriously a certain michael bay and transformers

stuff reading my mind there is a certain bayham

that could take a cue from nolan and even even

fully the only time i think i've seen john favreau

in maybe two films and i don't even remember

what the first one was the second film i remember

ever seeing him and was this foggy nelson in

in daredevil and then to my god he's directing

was foggy nelson doing directing iron man and

how is he doing a good job but he did and that's

because they embraced the history you know you

look at that uh... two -disc edition uh... standard

edition not not not blu ray but you look at the

two -disc dvd of iron man from two thousand two

thousand nine that two -disc set has like several

different feature one feature is like a seven

-part documentary on the filmmaking another feature

is like a six -part history of Iron Man and comics

and they embraced it. Marvel basically embraced

their characters again like I said whether it

was through Fox Studios or whether it was through

Sony or whatever and DC Warner Brothers basically

believes if it's not Batman or Superman, it's

not going to succeed and that's not true or they're

just sort of afraid of it and part of the issue

too is they just they're not picking the right

people to put this stuff together and pitch it

and You know, I know Some people might say well,

geez, this is a comic podcast and they're talking

about movies as much as we may not want to admit

it as comic fans, I think pretty much everybody

has to admit, like it or not, they're kind of

tied together nowadays. Oh, they are. No, no,

no, they are. I don't necessarily think that's

a terrible thing. I think television, to a certain

extent, is as well, too, with Walking Dead succeeding.

And I know it's not a comic book. Well, actually,

it is a comic book. It is a comic book. No, not

that. I was going to mention Game of Thrones.

But it has a lot of the qualities of a comic

series. I realize it's a book series. It's been

translated since then. The type of comic storytelling

has been picked up by TV and movies, and that's

part of the reason it's tied together. Like I

say, like it or not, the sales are very much

tied to it too. Again, individual comics, the

sales are down from year to year, but the trades

and everything sell like crazy. Trade trade paperbacks

are just so the way to go. They they really are.

I just recently Was it the 13th issue or the

fourth? Yeah, I think it's Batman Beyond Unlimited

number 13 where there's a flashback scene in

that book in that issue I picked that up and

I started collecting it from issue 13 But as

of, I think, two or three weeks ago, maybe a

month ago now at this point. Well, they're only

up to 16. I know, but I'm saying, again, this

won't air until June. But it's one of those things

where about a month ago or so, they released

the first trade. for that man beyond that they're

they release a trade for that they release a

trade for just as we be on super and beyond and

you know i have argued and and bitched about

on issue on this podcast before about how i don't

like that the man beyond limited is that the

co the print version is the collected edition

of the three digital issues from that beyond

justice league and superman The first trade paperback

10 ,000 clowns. Oh my god. I love it Just having

just the batman beyond story. So yeah, it ends

up reading a lot better Yeah, it if i'm I I sat

here. I don't know maybe Took me 15 minutes to

read through half the book. It's so damn good

And I cannot wait until august. I think it's

august 21st of this year Kyle higgins takes over

And he's going Kyle Higgins is one of those people

like us. He grew up with the DCAU He grew up

with those characters loving that franchise.

He's gonna do amazing things with Batman Beyond

It's gonna be so awesome. The funny thing is

I had never read the previous versions of the

comic series like I know there there was a DCAU

animated adventures for Batman like there was

two previous series there was a 20 I think it

was a 2011 series and I think maybe a 2009 series

I could be wrong I never read those but reading

this it's like it's like you said earlier in

the show it's like the cartoon comes to life

through comics and it's just the further adventures

of Terry McGinnis and it's just so awesome it

just is my favorite old issue of the original

runs for Batman Beyond was there was actually

an issue where they picked up on the terrific

trio and One of them actually survived to their

encounter with Terry and tries to resurrect the

other ones who did actually die Yeah, it's fairly

dark issue, but it was entertaining It was weird

to see and what is essentially a tie -in for

what was supposed to be a kid's Cartoon, but

anyway But but but again, that's what's so cool

about it is that there are some things in comics

that I don't agree with like For me personally

smallville ended at season 10. I will not read

the season 11 comic series. I just like The show

ended as soon as they incorporated the John Williams

theme at the end of the final episode of season

10 I was fine. I was happy it was done. You could

just hum the theme every time you read the book

Or I could just play it through iTunes. Oh, there

you go. That's an idea. The point is there's

some aftermaths. Take Angel, for example. That

show ended after five years. And the only reason

why that show ended at all was because Joss Whedon

went to WB and said, hey, can I start earlier?

Can I do this? Or can I do that? And they're

like, yep, nope, you're canceled. And then they

have the aftermath comics of what happened after

the season. I just can't get into that kind of

stuff. I just can't. By the way, tying into something

we were talking about before too, I'm pretty

sure whoever told Joss Whedon no when he originally

pitched his idea for a Justice League movie is

unemployed. I have a pretty strong feeling that

they're not working with the Warners anymore

or one would assume anyway after you know only

made like a billion dollars, so Yeah, oops. Oh

well. Oh well But no comics. It's just for me

right now. I'm at my breaking point when it comes

to comics because everybody keeps talking about

stuff and i keep getting interested in stuff

but not not just because of financially but because

of what i have to keep up with it's not even

because of the fact of all issue this or issue

that uh... you know i'll you know will be covering

some green lantern stuff later with uh... in

the pullback with Spada and all that stuff and

we'll be getting to the Turtles comics, the Teenage

Mutant Ninja Turtles current run for IDW later

on and it's like there's just too much right

now after adding to my list that I have of what

I want to get for Turtles and what I want to

get for the Green Lantern stuff. I think at this

point I can safely say there's currently nothing

that Any of the comic companies can release that

would make me say, oh, I need to get that new

ongoing. I'm already reading everything I'm most

interested in. So I don't know. Yeah, and I mean,

the bright side about comics now, too, is everything

is being released in trade paperback because

Again like it or not. That's kind of where the

money is at the moment So the bright side is

if you ever decide to try out something else

or if somebody recommends it or whatever It's

still out there. You can still pick it up. And

I mean It's kind of cool that 10 years from now.

Some of this stuff will be remembered the same

way as Dark Knight returns or some of the others

so You can always check them out and wait, but

I mean the really good stuff keeps getting reprinted

Yeah, that's so it's just so like I know that

there are several Batman stories that I need

to go back and read the killing joke Dark Knight

returns long Halloween It's funny you mentioned

those two because like we talked about how you

don't necessarily need You know with the good

books, you don't need any backstory. Those are

each one's That are really good that require

absolutely no real backstory. I mean all you

need to know about the Joker is he's bad You

know all you need to know about Dark Knight returns

is Jason Todd died as Robin and this is sort

of an alternate retelling of what happened afterwards

and It's pretty basic stuff like that and long

Halloween. You really don't need anything. I

mean, it's practically long Halloween could have

been animated movie for DC and in fact I'll be

surprised if someday they don't adapt it because

it works almost the same way as if you took like

five or six episodes of Batman the animated series

and put them together it reads an awful lot like

that and in fact a lot of the characters act

the same way like anytime the Joker somebody

speaks I immediately see and hear Hamill's version

of it so Yes, one of you mentioned those I mean

there's a lot of on the Marvel side. There's

stuff like that, too There's Mark Millar's enemy

of the state for Wolverine Which is a pretty

pretty solid introduction to him any of Garth

Ennis's Punisher stuff is the perfect introduction

to him I'm trying to think Mark Wade's daredevil

has been fantastic without a whole lot of backstory

a Really fun one is that's really recent is Matt

fractions Hawkeye My life as a weapon which requires

very little knowledge aside from Hawkeye is part

of the Avengers because the book is basically

all about him during his downtime Yeah, it's

what he does in between saving the world with

the Avengers and it's actually pretty fun. So

That's the thing. I mean, there's still you'll

have to pick and choose or hear from somebody

who reads them but there's a lot of stuff that

yeah, you can avoid the Almost unnecessary 300

years of continuity Joss Whedon's astonishing

x -men did a great job of it Yeah See, I you

know, I would love to go back and in trade form

if they're still available I would love to read

and this is basically from the old Marvel shows

the old cartoons. I want to read the Phoenix

Saga I want to read the dark Phoenix Saga. Well

for stuff like that. I mean it is those that

stuff is reprinted and Especially stuff with

the next first class coming out stuff like Days

of Future Past is gonna get reprinted yet again,

but there's also both Marvel and DC do this and

Forgive me. I don't remember the DC name of it,

but Marvel has what they call the essentials

compilations Which I really like it's DC present.

I think you're right Yeah, and it's something

like 25 to 30 like a whole ton of issues and

granted It's in back black and white, but they

are dirt cheap And it's a good way to read a

lot of those old ones hell some of the old comics

were in black and white or they've been reprinted

so many times that the colors have faded or Degraded

to the point that trying to read them in color

is actually more difficult than yeah Yeah, so

I mean at least yeah that stuff is still out

there actually really like the essentials sets

I have the x -men ones Actually, those are the

main ones I have and it's a really interesting

read especially like going through the old Chris

Claremont days, which is That's the version that

pretty much all of x -men the animated series

used as well as the movies It's pretty much all

based off of his version of those characters

Right. Yeah Yeah, no we in in the future I know

There have been some fans of this podcast are

like, what are you gonna cover more Marvel stuff?

Cuz right now we're only doing JT and I are doing

superior spider -man But I am a DC fanboy. I

Really am I love Marvel's characters. I do and

I'm sure in the future Because this this podcast

you go on not necessarily this episode but the

podcast life's make could go on forever because

comic books will always be around Oh, trust me

this episode could go on forever. I can talk

about comics for days I don't think my computer

is But and to those people And that to those

people to those people I'd say give it time because

I myself When I first started getting into comics

and even when I started getting back into them

I jumped back with the stuff I knew and For you

the stuff, you know is DC from a lot of the animated

stuff And I mean it just it took me some time.

But like from there I read I read outwards pretty

much from there, and now I'm going to go through

the list. In terms of trades and books, I read

Choo, Fables, currently Wolverine and the X -Men,

at least until Jason Aaron leaves, Mark Waid's

Daredevil, Matt Fraction's Hawkeye, Scott Snyder,

anything Scott Snyder or Jeff Lemire do. Man

walking dead. I buy in trade form There's a whole

ton I'm forgetting But yeah, you get the idea

anything Greg Rucka does anything Ed Brubaker

is writing as well. I buy in trade Well for me,

it's one of those things like you just said where

There are certain Marvel like I really enjoy

Wolverine. I've enjoyed most of the incarnations

of Wolverine in film, television, and animation.

So I'm sure at some point I will seek out some

Wolverine trades. I'm sure at some point I will

seek out some other Marvel stuff. But I think

that the podcast has between the DC stuff we

do, between the IDW, Transformers, Turtles stuff

we'll be doing. uh... we're very very we we have

we don't have everything because we don't really

cater to the marvel fanboys but we do have enough

to where people are going to look at an episode

we release like say episode i don't know episode

thirty six might be green lantern rebirth Whoever

wants to listen to that or whoever enjoyed that

will want to listen to that podcast. I am trying

to make this show as diverse as possible, but

at the same time, I have to watch my wallet,

ladies and gentlemen. Green Lantern Rebirth is

one I enjoyed. Justice League Tower of Babel,

which by the way is what the animated film Doom

was based on. Tower of Babel, I liked Doom, but

I have to say the comic book reads a hundred

times better. Oh yeah, but that's because they

have to fit all of that in in a 7 -80 minute

- Oh yeah. The bright side with the comic book

too is it's another one. I would say you need

absolutely no past Knowledge of any of these

characters the only one you sort of need to understand

is Ra's al Ghul and Batman and I'm pretty sure

most people listening will know a little bit

about those characters I mean, it's very much

in line with the animated versions of those two

as well. There's stuff like that. I've got all

of Kevin Smith's Green Arrow run. I've got literally

almost every single Punisher trade there is.

I've got probably about 30 Batman trades, so

I'm not going to bother listing those. I've got

a ton of X -Men and Wolverine, some Deadpool,

not a huge Deadpool fan though. I've got every

volume of Fables, which is currently at 19. I've

got every volume of Transmetropolitan, Sandman,

Preacher, Watchmen, I have an original like individual

issues as well as the trade. I've got pretty

much all of Alan Moore's stuff, League of Extraordinary

Gentlemen, V for Vendetta, etc. Need to get a

swamp thing run from the 80s, which is amazing

I got the chance to reread it recently and man

that was a guy who could write like 20 years

ahead of his time So yeah, and I could keep going

I'm leaving out a whole ton, but you kind of

get the idea I'm now at the point where I try

to read a little bit of everything. It's helped

by the fact that I read heavily anyway, and Comics

I would argue because I read a lot of books.

I'm talking roughly a book every two to three

days. And I would argue that comics are at a

higher, the writers doing comics now are writing

at a higher level than the writers doing fiction

now. Although some of that's not saying much.

I read a Dan Brown book and I want to cry for

the English language. It all comes back to a

former lingerie buyer turned bounty hunter for

me the Janet Ivanovich Stephanie plumb series.

Oh my god You want to you want an actual novel

series that you're gonna laugh your ass off every

single book it several moments during the book

that that Stephanie plumb series is is Amazing

as far as actual reading stuff But yeah, no I

agree like for me reading comics now reading

trades now is just like when I was a kid reading

actual fiction novels Or it's like I just can't

get enough and it's like, you know I want to

consume as much as I can part of that's what

we talked about with with Marvel earlier too

And that is that the writers are now the same

people saying well, it's not just a comic book

Right. Yeah, you know and maybe someday the execs

at Warner Brothers They're gonna figure that

out. You'd think they would have by now after

they watched Marvel beat them to the punch in

terms of movies pretty badly, but Yeah, hopefully

my first reaction after seeing Avengers was hey

DC You can put a good team -up movie together

So you can't but they choose not to So far so

far yeah so far all right well it has been fun

This for another hour plus I Didn't say was yeah,

I know you know you could yeah Next week, we

will be doing Marvel and Marvel now for episode

20 and depending on scheduling Hopefully we will

have JT and Ryan on for that. I don't know if

scheduling for those two can't work out I'll

probably bring in the Punisher body count crew

because I know they read a lot of Marvel Oh,

man, you should have me on with them, too This

other podcast I listen to they're the only people

who might know as much about the Punisher as

I do We'll work it out. Oh, you heard me. I threw

down the gauntlets on that one All right, keep

reading those comics. Hey, bub. I keep telling

you don't call me wavy snicked You just heard

the latest episode of the pullback GCR ends comic

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