Jake and Dane on Comic Reading Habits and the Current State of Comics

Hey, this is Steve Blum, and you are listening

to the Geekcast Radio Network. Sit back and enjoy

this week's whole bag Hey bub, I keep telling

you don't call me wavy snicked I Leave this as

a declaration of intent so no one will be confused

one sick this pacum parablem Latin the boot camp

sergeant made us recite it like a prayer sick

this pacum parablem If you want peace, prepare

for war. Number two, Frank Castle is dead. He

died with his family. Number three, in certain

extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In

order to shame its inadequacy, it is necessary

to act outside the law, to pursue natural justice.

This is not vengeance. Revenge is not a valid

motive, it's an emotional response. No, not vengeance.

Punishment. Welcome to the poll bag! This is

episode 7. I am your host TFJ and Mike and we've

been doing these origins things for a while here

in the pull bag ever since episode 3 we did one

in episode 3 and episode 5 and now with episode

7 I have invited The Punisher body count crew

on with me. We have Dane. Hello. Hey there And

we have Jake. Hello. Yeah, how's it going radio

land? It's going good and there's no Transmitter

around here. So I don't think the radio waves

can hear us. Well, I'm trying to create the illusion

here. Ah Maybe they're radioactive waves or gamma

rays or gamma radio. There you go right there

Gamma radio land We should also to keep the radio

illusion going add in some shitty sound effects

and have horrible jock names like coffee boy

coffee boy or like Cigarhead, yeah, no, no, we

have like crazy animal names like the Jaguar

on WNBC Welcome to the morning fucking comic

zoo. Okay, can I be Jacob? Wow, man Williams

And I'll be Dane the Don Lamont just own that

Italian stereotype Let's make sure Tony Soprano's

not coming after you. We are the godfathers of

comic nerd podcasting. We'll replace that into

a bumper. Oh, wow. I'll send you this raw recording

after we're done. Okay, so we are here to talk

about Dane and Jake's comic reading. You know,

if you've listened to Punish Your Body Count,

which just recently joined up with GCRN, uh...

when we when you guys join it was it was it was

the first of the year actually you're right i'm

trying to think what at what episode of your

show was was it episode thirteen fourteen oh

some no like twenty -nine or thirty twenty -nine

that's what it was yeah yeah uh... but yeah uh...

they do a podcast all about the punisher they

have frank castle on the brain you know it's

a good thing you guys don't do a podcast all

about dick Well, if you listen to the show, sometimes

it's hard to tell. We followed the Kevin Smith

formula, which is dick jokes plus fart jokes

equals podcast gold. You didn't intend this,

but I'm not kidding you. You know how a lot of

podcasts have test episodes, like episode zero?

Yeah, let's see how shit works out. We did an

episode zero about this Punisher max comic It

was like a one -shot and it was about the Punisher

infiltrating some pornography sex ring that actually

captured people and they had a guy God, what

was his name? 11 3 11 through because that was

the dimensions of his dick and Like that was

supposed to and it's and they made clear that

that was his dimensions We wasn't hard and we

talked about that for like eight minutes. It's

gonna I can't believe this man. Is he like a

mutant? Is he part of the x -men? How can he

how can his brain continue to function if he

gets a boner? Why am I flashing the mall rats

right about now? Yeah, that's that's our show.

I mean What was his name Edward bakey or whatever

Brody Brody Brody like that's our show. Yeah,

I mean this Alright, so Dane what what else do

you read besides Punisher stuff? Well, uh my

My main deal cuts into three different categories

when it comes to comics. Obviously, I really

like a lot of street level Marvel night sort

of stories back back in the day Marvel nights

was a real brand and just real street level noir

stories So that can be Punisher that can be even

detective stories like black sad and of course

Batman every now and then but I also like pulpy

stories that kind of are either before superheroes

or were inspired in that era like right now I

Really love the Rocketeer books. Maybe I'll talk

about them a little bit Future and then category

three is just comics that go balls -to -the -wall

crazy this this handles a lot of the manga I

read such as crying Freeman mad bull 34 hell

sing little bit more mainstream there but that

those are the three categories I normally like

it's tough for me to get into like soap opera

elements or long -standing very continuity heavy

comics though I can if I try which is a pretty

good mirror to Jake ask about his biggest collection

all right what are you currently reading outside

of Punisher because we can hear all about Punisher

on your almost podcast so right I kind of break

down my reading into three categories. Now, I'm

one of the people ruining comics, okay? Punisher

books are about the only thing that I get monthly

in my pullback at the comic book store. My wife

gets X -Men and Fables, so we get those. I used

to read a lot of X -Men, and I'll get into that

in a little bit. But I like to buy the trade.

And the main two series that I'm reading as they

come out in trades is Walking Dead and the new

IDW GI Joe. I'm behind on the GI Joe. I'm still

in the Cobra Civil War, but I'm anxious to catch

up and get to the point where they're about to

switch to the new... the new team idea or whatever

and then I read a lot of manga when I can the

The ongoing manga that I'm currently like really

wrapped up in is Blade of the Immortal by Hiroaki

Samura But I pick up miscellaneous Manga here

and there and I've read a lot of the classics

like Lone Wolf and Cob and Lady Snowblood. Yeah

stuff like that and then I and then I like to

pick up uh... miscellaneous uh... graphic novels

that are considered you know like masterpieces

in the field uh... like something like mouths

you know i'm i'm looking for that kind of stuff

and then recently like as dane mentioned like

i've really gotten into a black sad kick uh...

so yeah that's what you say what would you say

is the one thing that like as a kid that got

you like what was the book or the character who

Who or what got you into reading comics as a

kid? You want to tee off on this one day, or

you want me to? No, I asked you, Jay. Oh, sorry.

Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. I'm bad at this. Anyway,

I started getting into comics when I was in third

grade, I think. And there was a kid who was...

that I was in class with who was really into

comics. And this was about the time that the

X -Men 90s cartoon came on. And as a side note,

I swear that the 90s X -Men cartoon is responsible

for 90 % of the comic book people our age, I

think got them into that. But anyway, so I started

getting into comics off the X -Men cartoon But

when I say I got into comics, I was one of those

chromium age speculators in that I was buying

comics just because it had the chromium cover.

I tucked them away, didn't read them, and it

was more of a collector's kind of thing as opposed

to actually getting the books and reading them.

I didn't start. Collecting comics to read until

right around the time x -men 2 came out and then

I started getting back into x -men and It's just

all downhill from there. So that's kind of my

Backstory on that What about you Dane? What's

the earliest or is there like is maybe a your

dad or grandfather's, you know No, someone get

you into comics or was it you know, how does

your story start out cheer? random chance really.

No one in my family has ever been interested

in comic books. The only people that really collected

periodicals on my side of the family was my grandparents.

My grandparents actually owned the original first

five Mad magazines. That's pretty much as collections

go in our family. I, as a kid, really Like the

idea of comics, but then and I'm fairly certain

this happens with a lot of people then you see

the the issue number Like oh man look fantastic

for that cover looks interesting like me as an

eight -year -old then I see it's fantastic for

number 411 and even as a kid I go well geez I

don't think I'd be able to pay attention to that

story and I just would just fake out. I would

just move on or something. I still enjoyed, of

course, many of the Saturday morning cartoons

that many people of our generation enjoyed, such

as the X -Men cartoon Jake brought up, the Batman,

the animated series, and I kept up with that.

What actually got me into comics, I did not truly

get into comics until I was 17, bordering on

18. It actually happened at a privately owned

bookstore in my area and Believe I was with my

mother and my sister at the time My mother was

a history teacher and she was looking for a book

for her class and I saw a really evocative Batman

comic actually it the title of it. It was in

you remember that Batman hush storyline with

Jeff Lowe Mm -hmm and Jim Lee on art. I believe

that they were in the middle of that big hush

storyline and it was the Issue 614 and it was

titled punchline and the cover of it was jokers

facing you he's kind of hunched over backwards

and Batman's choking the life out of him, and

I thought wow it's really interesting and like

a complete Fucking newbie to comics. I thought

oh my god. It looks like Batman's gonna kill

him. I should buy this this might be an important

Hey, I barely picked up a comic in my life. I

didn't know any better. But I read that comic

and I was so impressed by the drama. the action

inside of it and just the the craftsmanship of

a comic book because for me comics were like

oh well comics were like the kind of you'd see

in the newspaper comic strips like okay there's

like four squares to a page maybe six sometimes

a double splash page but the way Jim Lee I mean

some people don't like the guy but he did a wonderful

job drawing not only the action but the emotion

going on. Even little things like the borders

being red and as the rain came and the things

calmed down toward the end, the red faded into

white. And I thought, wow, this is really cool.

Comics can be art on some level. This is neat.

And then I knew, oh, it was silly for me to think

Batman was going to kill Joker and maybe I can't

care too much on emotional level. But then I

started looking at other comics and there was

another comic called Salmon Twitch by Brian Michael

Bendis. They were just sold as a bundle the first

12 issues and I read that and I truly cared about

these spawned spin -off characters And it made

me realize oh my god. I can care about comics

comics are just as good as books and movies They're

not just characters punching each other to make

you To entertain you you can have an emotional

character That's when I truly became a comic

book fan, and that's when I started actively

searching for comics Yeah, it's not all about

the Bing, Pow, Buff, you know, oomph. As Batman

66 would have you believe. Yeah, every time I

see that, like, in a newspaper or a magazine,

like, Bing, Bang, Pow, comics, not just for kids

anymore, I, like, just pull out a lighter and

just set that on fire. I don't care if I'm at

a fucking gas station. I'm just like, fuck you,

Newsweek, and just burn that, you know. I don't

care that Barnes & Noble banned me. It's worth

it. I noticed, Dan, that you said it very lackluster,

like you didn't care, but I read Batman every

now and then. Yeah, here's the problem. I really

do like Batman. Batman was one of the top three

characters that I thought I could get into in

comics. Batman got me into comics. That's no

lie. It was Batman 614, and I really got into

the Hush storyline. Nowadays, on retrospect,

Hush... isn't that great, but it's good for beginners.

Jeff Loeb is a very talented writer for bringing

in casual or new readers. He's very talented

in that matter, but then I got into Punisher

and Deadpool and those brought me in, but I...

Batman trade paperbacks filled my shelves back

in the day My problem is and I brought this up

on the body count podcast is every time in the

news segment I often find something awful about

the comic book industry and I really have trouble

supporting some of DC's decisions with how they

treat their storylines their characters and even

their Their creators these days. It's just very

difficult and that Batman death of the family

story I gave them a shot with that because Snyder

I thought was a very good writer, but they really

soured me on that because DC broke some of their

own narrative rules or economical rules really

with that storyline. It just really bugged me.

As I said back in episode three, that's what

issue 13 of New 52 for Batman, Steve wrote a

review for it on geekcastradio .com and I was

like, ooh. I wanna see this, because in my head

I'm thinking Batman, Kevin Conroy, Joker, Mark

Heather, like I'm thinking in animation terms.

And I started reading it and then I was like,

ooh, I wanna see what's going on with my other

favorite characters, like Batgirl, like Nightwing,

so that's how I got started and all that stuff.

And Death of the Family, just specifically in

the Batman book, as it progressed, it got good,

it got good, it got good. And the finale was

like, yes, hey, let's reset to status quo. And

I'm like, seriously? Yeah, you nailed it. I mean,

I think that comics in general have this problem.

I mean, I didn't read. Death of the Family, but

I am a casual Batman fan. But the comics in general

do this. I mean, this is the exact same thing

that happened with Marvel Civil War. I mean,

you had this great buildup, this great buildup,

and then all of a sudden, no, Steve Rogers, you're

the bad guy. Ah, shit, my bad guys. You are the

demons. Yeah. And Paramedic Squad will hug you

to death. That was rough. I'll just bring up

you you pretty much summarized what bugged me

about Batman death and family what I meant early

when I said DC kind of broke some of their Narrative

and economical rules because here's how mainstream

comic books work Okay, no one's gonna die in

a Batman fill -in issue and no importance gonna

die in a Batman fill -in issue No one's gonna

die at some bullshit thing because we as readers

have been trained Nothing really big or groundbreaking

is going to happen in someone's run in a connected

comic book universe in order for that big shit

to happen You need to wait for a mega event like

Jake just said like Civil War and I say Civil

War did Pretty good job at that even if with

a lackluster ending, but that's the rules probably

death of the family is They put it up like it's

gonna be a big thing and this one matters guys

jokers back He's more serial killery than ever

and they really hit that Alfred might die or

go blind or do something really fucking awful

and all he really did the comic was all flash

and no substance he cut up his face to make a

philosophical point about identity no one in

Batman's family died and Joker and Joker said

oh I know where I know all your identities I

know where you live and then at the end oh wait

no I don't I was just fucking with you haha And

Batman says, well, I know who you are, and I'm

going to reveal your origin. And then, oh, no,

no, I don't. I'm just bluffing. And it just went,

fucking, what was the point of this? What were

you? Because the whole culmination of that is,

well, I guess Robin isn't going to be returning

Batman's phone calls to play baseball or whatever

on Sundays. Like, that's the fucking consequence

of it. And I just thought, this was fucking awful.

This didn't even come close to the amount of

hype they were doing. I know what I don't get

about it is is that Over in incorporated yeah,

they killed Damien. Yeah Wow, okay. Okay. I get

I get it Bruce and Talia fucked okay fine Talia

is the demon spawn of Ra's al Ghul I get it fine

Damien is essentially going to be if tell you

had her way raised to, if he lived at that time,

raised to be the next Ra's al Ghul. I fucking

get it. I don't fucking care because the whole

time I was reading Death of the Family, every

time I saw Damian, it was, he had that condescending

Ra's attitude towards Everyone else like I don't

get his I don't get his animosity and rivalry

with with Tim Drake I don't get that really thing

I really got the only I really came away with

from death of the family in regards to Damien

is that Dick Grayson is more of a father to him

than bruises. Yeah That's all I came with it's

the only reason why I even care about the character

was because of the relationship they showed with

Nightwing And and Robin like Bruce he had like

okay sure Batman and Robin. What was it 18? Yeah

Yeah, it was the last issue 18 they they had

Bruce mourning and I I liked that issue I thought

it was a very powerful issue and whatever else

but it's like yeah, I Just don't care about the

kid if he dies or it's it It's kind of like,

you know back in the days when they're like,

oh death in the family call in and vote do we

kill him or do we keep that it is the same yet

it's the exact same thing what and i think it

would have been more powerful if the joker had

killed him i absolutely and uh... yet like well

maybe here's the proletarian in the family death

of the family like i i don't like using this

word too much but right now like most comic books

are just relying on the means and nostalgia of

your past like what was the last x -men uh...

Avengers thing the Phoenix bullshit like it's

I remember the Phoenix back in the 90s from that

cartoon show and maybe the comics Yeah, we're

bringing that back and they're trying to that

cash in on the Claremont storyline Yes, and the

same deal with death of the family because what

does that remind you of? Oh death in the family

where Jason Todd died. That was a very important

story So that signifies this is an important

story. Let me throw you one better age of Ultron

I mean Ultron, yeah. Harkening back to Age of

Apocalypse. Yeah, this is what I'm talking about.

Like, I get very picky about, and I'm not trying

to be like that elitist asshole that says, I

don't buy Marvel and DC. I only read Image and

Manga and maybe the classic IMDW stuff. Like,

fuck you, man. Obviously, you read Marvel. You

have to. You do a podcast on one of their characters.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It just... Know that

I think the thing is the the frustration we're

talking about is that we love the medium and

we love I think we love the Marvel and DC characters

were just tired of being the quote -unquote victims

of their constant need to make larger and larger

profit by doing just bullshit, like doing this

constantly renumbering and doing new number ones

every six months to bring in, you know, quote

unquote new readers. I mean, I think we just

want to go back to the days where, you know,

you read one issue and it's a self -contained

story, but it's connecting to a larger series.

And we want, or at least I want characters, you

know, who we care about, but they can change.

And that change is permanent. Like when Nightcrawler

died in X -Men two or three years ago, no one

gave a shit because they knew he'd be back. And

I think it took them like a year to bring him

back. So like when characters die, they don't

have any meaning. And that's kind of why I really

like Walking Dead is because the characters die.

Your favorite character can die any minute. And

that shit is permanent. And that's why you're

in for the ride. because they're playing for

keeps and that's what makes it interesting. Like

Dane was saying earlier about, hey, if you pick

up Fantastic Four number 411, my thought is,

oh crap, issue 411. I have 410 issues to read

to catch up to where it is. And that was one

of my main stigmas of not getting into comics

before Marvel Now and before New 52 and all that

stuff. That was one of my main things was like,

I have no interest in comics. I respect them

for what they do. I like the art in comics and

all that stuff. But up until last October, I

hadn't read a comic since 1994, 1995. And it's

one of those things where the new 52 say what

you want, good or bad for it. For someone like

me, That's actually a good thing so I can start

fresh with new stories and not have that Assumption

of death of or death in yes, I knew of death

in the family. I knew of it, but I have I've

never read it I mean, you know, I've seen Batman

under the Red Hood, which is essentially. Oh,

yeah Once again is pretty much digging up. Remember

that story? From decades back that everyone kind

of liked well, let's just dig it up because yeah

and as a business decision I understand like

you want to go with what's familiar with what

works what sells But I think you also need to

balance that off with some new ideas Yeah, like

as much as I'm one of my favorite writers, which

Jake constantly hassles me about is Brian Michael

Bendis I actually met that man at Pittsburgh

Comic Con when I was a college student and Great

guy and he actually got me into Marvel comics

like mainstream Marvel comics. I'd only read

like the edges maybe like some Deadpool and Punisher,

but As controversial as his Avengers run was,

especially in the beginning when he pretty much

just tore that shit apart, I was like, wow, this

is new and it's taking some risks. And I go,

I really like this. I'm engaged in this. I care.

And I don't see that as much these days. I see

past whatever newness is and I go, oh, wait,

no, they just repackaged killing a society. or

they just repackaged this Chris Claremont story,

or they just brought up, oh man, remember Galactus

guys? Yeah, he's cool. I just go, oh man, it's

got - Who really drank cloud in the sky? Yeah,

God fucking snubbed at the Oscars, let me tell

you. That cloud was up there with fucking Schindler

for empathy. I love that cloud. The best version

of Galactus animated is Superhero Squad, George

Takei voicing a Galactus and Superhero Squad

show. Yeah, that show is pretty underrated. Like,

it's weird and it's for kids, but... It's not

just for kids. There's some adult humor in there,

too. Yeah, I've seen it once or twice, and there

is a good bit of humor. I mean, there's something

in there for everyone. What's great is they actually

had the Punisher in that kids move that kids

TV show and Ray Stevenson the guy who played

hit the Punisher and Punisher were so voiced

him in a kids cartoon and Punisher was a psychopath

Kids cartoon. It was great so Real quick. I think

I see what you're saying with the barrier to

entry with the way comics were like in the 70s,

80s and 90s with the with the high number issues.

But I really think Marvel was on to something

a little while ago when they did their point

one issues. I think I think that's the way they

should have kept up with it. Just whenever you're

getting ready to launch a new storyline, do a

point one so that way people know where they

can jump on and off with relative ease. And I

thought that was the right formula, but apparently

Marvel now was the right formula. Well, see,

that's the thing, though. You got to think. Marvel,

DC, DC, Marvel, they've been at each other's

throats for the last 70 years and trying to keep

up. So since DC implemented New 52, Marvel's

like, oh, we got to do something, too. And I

don't, the only things from Marvel that I've

read or that I'm currently reading, I read the

two. To issue limited series Iron Man 3 prequels

because hello. It's an Iron Man 3 prequel before

the movie comes out So I had to read that That

was pretty good. And then I started at 698 through

700 and then jumped over to superior and that's

really all I'm reading from That comic got a

lot of hate but it's kind of one. Yeah, I got

a lot of hate but you got to think about it though

There at least for now. They are doing something

Completely different. Yeah, and it's and it's

fascinating me It's a super villain living in

a superhero skin and actually trying to be that

person and trying to be better Oh, man, that

is good. I and dance that's written by Dan slot

another writer that Jake absolutely hates. Yes.

Oh boy Well, I applaud what he's doing. Like

I know I'm with you guys. I mean, I don't read

superior spider -man but Real I do like that.

He's taking the risk, but I almost feel like

I should go on What's that betting website in

trade or whatever and I feel like we should trade?

Yeah We should just like throw a bet up there

like how long it takes before is Peter Parker

spider -man Nothing ever happened. Just like

one one more day, you know, and I'm betting it's

six months Actually, it's gonna end in two months

the whole It's really ending quick But that's

what I'm saying, why is a new reader should I

care? I mean, maybe because I'm jaded on comics.

I mean, I like that they're taking the risk,

but what does it matter if in two months it's

going to be off? This never happened. We're going

to forget about this. Even though, you know,

kind of jumping back over to DC, even though

I really enjoyed Death of the Family minus how

it ended, what I'm looking forward to now is

how they can, like, like issue nineteen that

just came out for batman i first of all i love

that they're doing splash covers i don't know

if they're gonna do splash covers for every cover

now but the whole splash hidden cover of of of

the book of you know who is bruce wayne's greatest

enemy and he's you know who who makes batman

use a gun but i like think that's great marketing

and i love that issue because I kind of saw it

coming and I kind of didn't see it coming of

who the villain is in that issue but I'm loving

where they're taking Batman because as we all

know it's been announced that in issue 21 coming

out in June they're gonna do zero year which

is the year like leading you know the whole year

of how he became batman for the new fifty two

and i think that's great and i think that's either

is the amazing job writing it i just think that

the they should have they should have shocked

us with the with issue seventeen like they they

should have done something whether it's killing

off for whether it's killing damian whether it's

you know whatever they should have done something

in that issue other than just reset even though

i'm just hitting the reset button uh... Alright,

so what else? Like what are the things that you

guys looking forward to coming up or is there

anything that you guys like? Is there is there

any like mate like I know I heard a solicit for

avenging spider -man that apparently Punisher

is gonna meet up with superior and that will

definitely be covered in the Pockets I think

that would be a need because I feel what they're

gonna do there There was a episode there was

a an issue a daredevil where dare where I think

was under Brew Baker's run where daredevil got

sent to prison and he's kind of He's kind of

in a dark point in his life Punisher actually

snaps a guy's neck in public to go to prison

and actually try and talk daredevil out of his

darkness And listen, you really don't want to

be like me Seriously, that that's not you. I

kind of feel like that avenging spider -man Comics

can be sort of like that like Punisher's like

listen. You're getting pretty dark here spider

-man You blew a guy's head off at the in Times

Square or what have you? I think you need to

go freakin chill when when posture tells you

to freakin chill you got problems So I'm looking

forward to that, but I'm sorry I I want to try

and get your question right is there's you're

asking about comics. We're looking forward to

it Yeah, like news storylines coming up that

you guys are looking forward to and stuff like

that Okay Uh, can I - can I bring up some - Go

ahead, Jake. Oh, no, no, I - No, you can go,

Dave, it's fine. Uh, well, now let's see here.

I'm actually gonna bring up - the first thing

that actually comes up to my head is Hajime no

Ippo, which is a boxing manga. It's all about,

uh, boxing. I love it so much and They're actually

and it's great because we've gotten to the point

where in every Japanese comic where they're actually

fighting Americans and that always becomes a

big issue of contention like I Jake has a wife

and I would His wife and I would talk about similar

comics and one thing that's great about a lot

of manga especially in like Fighting manga or

stuff like that. They're all friends and then

suddenly the Americans come and they're not necessarily

super evil But you always want to beat them because

they never really forgot World War II, I guess.

But now Hajime Ippo and their crew, they're in

Las Vegas. Now they're fighting in the big time.

And I love that because the Russian boxer, the

wolf. Just beat out basically their version of

Mike Tyson in the comic except very calculate

calculated and strategic though Mike Tyson was

a pretty strategic guy, too So I'm looking forward

to the Las Vegas storyline continuing. I'm also

really enjoying It's a miniseries right now.

I really love how IDW is handling the Rocketeer.

They just put out these miniseries with a rotating

creative crew and They're doing such a good job

right now. They're doing Hollywood horror where

I'm not kidding you You get to see all these

30s movie stars in Hollywood and rocketeer is

actually fighting fucking Cthulhu. It's pretty

great What about you Jake, um, I'm gonna deviate

slightly from your question because Like I'm

really bad about not wanting to be spoiled So

like I go out of my way to not read reviews or

I don't really look at previews at all I kind

of like to go into the shop browse the covers

and if something looks interesting, you know,

I like to pick it up I'm getting ready to graduate

college and I have been ass busy this whole school

year You know trying to wrap up my degree and

everything so I haven't had time to really see

what's out there, but I've accumulated a few

books on my You know stack of comics I want to

get around to read to one of the ones that I'm

really anxious to dive into is the hunter which

is the part one of the Parker novels that Darwin

Cook is doing for IDW. I read the outfit and

what was the other one? I don't know, that big

martini edition that they put out a year or two

ago. I read that. I love Darman Cook's artwork

and that format is really working well for him.

So I'm looking forward to the hunter and then

Dark Horse just put out a book called Emerald

and other stories by Hiroaki Samura he's the

guy that does bladed the immortal and before

we Recorded earlier today. One of our listeners

was harassing me that I always mentioned Hiroaki

Samura and the two guys that did black sad so,

you know to all the pullback listeners like These

people are some of the most underrated artists

in comics right now. The guy that does Blade

of the Immortal, you gotta check it out. His

pencils are amazing. And some people are gonna

be off put because it's a manga, but he does

not have that big eyes, little mouth style. You

know, everyone thinks that all manga is Pokemon,

but it's not. It is not kawaii ugu. It is not

kawaii. So I'm looking forward to that. And then

just the new IDW GI Joe that I mentioned earlier.

I need to hurry up and get caught up with Cobra

Civil War, but definitely looking forward to

the new GI Joe. Yeah, that's the same thing for

me outside of the DC stuff that I read. I'm just

now getting into Transformers more than meets

the eye and I have so stupid. I asked my comic

shop to order me all three volumes of the trades

from issue one to issue, I think it's 12 or whatever

that the third volume has, but they got me two

of the volumes. They got me volume one, so I

had to find it elsewhere, and actually a listener,

Jeremy Fine, has actually sent it to me, but

I haven't gotten it yet because it doesn't come

in the mail, but it's one of those things where...

You would think if you asked them for volumes

one, two, and three that they would order all

three at the same time and they would have all

three. It was like these two books are just sitting

on my desk and I'm like, I want to read you but

I can't because I'm not going to just jump in

the middle of the story. Sure. That's one of

those things. So we're going to take a quick

break and we're going to come back and we're

going to talk about a little bit more about the

current state of comics, trades, graphic novels,

and pricing. Oh my. Shut up. Shut up! My brain's

not a nice place to be. I'm not hearing this!

We are back here on the pull bag and we're gonna

talk about like we've we've gotten Dane and Jake's

history and now we're gonna kind of talk about

the current state of comics and single issues

versus getting trades versus... Anything else

and comic pricing of all things because I remember

comics were a dollar 25 for Christ's sake or

single issues word that I think the first comic

book I ever bought was Adjective list x -men

the one that's currently x -men legacy. I remember

when I bought my first issue was issue 24 With

rogue and gambit getting ready to make out on

the cover and I think it was a buck 50 Pretty

sure yeah Well back in my day I could go to the

comics bookstore with a dime buy all the Superman

comics Maybe some Batman get a trolley get some

lunch and then have just enough change for a

blowjob nearby the local dollar general I didn't

realize you were five years old. Them's were

the days friend And also, that's bullshit, because

the cover price of Action Comics number one was

ten cents. God damn it, it's a joke! I forgot,

you're an actuary! You know math! Look at me!

Wait, that was a joke? I had no idea! Oh, man.

Look at me. Oh, man. We're going through like

all the fucking Punisher Body out steps. Now,

Jake, let's get this along the way. Say something

disparaging about liberal arts. What can you

do? I don't know if Mike is a liberal arts major

or not. Yeah. Major? What's that? I only minored

in college. Yeah, that's fair. But yeah, comic

book prices. I was hoping we would bring this

up tonight, because I was listening to episode

three of The Pull Bag, and you and Steve were

complaining about comic prices. And I realized

people are freaking out, because they're moving

up to $3 .99. Like I don't know when I first

started reading comic books. I had a $5 allowance

to buy comics So buying, you know, an X -Men

issue one was all it was like 20 % of my income

I mean is three not it is 399 20 % of your income

now. I mean No, but no, but it's I wasn't really

freaking out in that in that Episode I was more

so just stating what what we've just said it's

you know when we were younger back in the 90s

and stuff comics were were way cheaper than what

they are now and no of course three four dollars

you know two three four dollars isn't gonna break

the bank but for me kind of like what you guys

are talking about earlier about like like Dane

you had said if a if a cover grabs you you'll

grab the issue You know and that's the same thing

with me if I go into my comic shop and I see

a cover of that Oh my god, that looks cool. I

want it just for that I get at home and I read

I'm like this story Isn't that great? What the

hell and it's like I want my four dollars back

damn it, right? I'm sure people had similar reactions

back in the day. Yeah The good thing nowadays,

though, is whether you order your comics online

through websites or physical comics. We'll get

into your other argument in a minute, Jake. What,

I have another argument? Yeah. Oh, okay. We'll

get into that in a second. I know a site, DCBService

.com, where you can order them. You can order

them online. I haven't looked to see what their

shipping prices are, but I'm mainly looking for

a better discount than what my local comic store

would offer on Nightwing Volume 2 when it comes

out. And through their site, I can get it for

under 10 bucks. Where at my comic shop, it would

be like... 12 $14 doesn't DCVS do free shipping

on X amount or is that their sister site in stock

trades? Yeah, I'm not sure I haven't I Have not

explored them enough I mean I've ordered from

in stock trades, and I know I've gotten free

shipping on that Okay, and I hate to keep giving

them free advertising. Oh no. I don't care. That's

whatever I mean that's but but those are the

two sites that I know of And it's one of those

things where, you know, you can, well, my point

here is nowadays you can get, whether you get

them online or get them in stores, you know,

you get discounts. Like on, like I get a 15 %

discount on each book I get from my local comic

shop. So that's... So, I'm actually, instead

of paying $3 .99, I'm paying like $3 .55 or with

a bag and board, I'm paying like $3 .55. So,

it's not that big of a deal. Well, it's good

that your shop is offering 15 % off. I mean,

some stores, especially here in Indy, they're

not giving you jack shit. The only Store that's

really given you a deal is the one I go to hero

house When you spend five hundred dollars in

store you get a fifty dollar gift certificate

So, you know, you could say that's roughly ten

percent off, but they're the only ones in town

giving a discount Wow, that's nuts But no your

your other argument I saw on Facebook Physical

comics versus digital comics. Oh Yeah, you know

the digital thing. What were you talking about?

Oh, no, I think I was complete. Well, I think

I was Being a little sarcastic. You were saying

something about that. You would never support

digital comics and Something. Oh, no. No. No

what I said was When saga number 12 came out

there's a big brouhaha because Apple said that

the comics ology app couldn't offer saga number

12 because of gratuitous Homosexual sex and that's

not me Yeah, I'm not trying to make a joke there.

That's literally their reasoning for doing it

and One of our listeners has said that yeah,

it was basically pornography and Apple was in

the right but I'm like very anti Apple products

and Don't know. I was just kind of making a joke

more than anything, but I actually support digital

comics. I'm gonna give you the two main reasons

why First of all and Rob briscoe has talked about

this on the uncanny X cast a lot is that you

can put a bunch on your Tablet, you know, you

can read them anywhere the technology for reading

them is finally caught up. It's not that much

different from reading a paper issue. And it's

just a real convenient way for people who are

into that. Now that said, the price points are

all wrong. I personally am not going to pay.

three bucks for an issue that I can't turn around

and sell or don't have a physical copy of. I

mean, that's just not my style, but I think it's

great for people who are. I just think once they've

dropped the price point down to a buck, buck

and a quarter for the latest issue, I think that's

when it's really going to take off. And the second

reason why I support it is I think it's finally

going to give independent artists and comic book

creators the chance to really break in and it's

something that you know I've explored with my

comic creation endeavors because you can you

know once you pay an artist once you pay a colorer

if you want to you know go the colors route your

budget's just not there for printing whereas

now you can hire your art team and now you can

save it as a CBR and throw it out on the internet.

Your selling point is going to become, you're

going to have to work that out with Comixology

or whatever, but it's going to lower your barrier

to entry, not having to deal with what's the

people, not alliance. Why can't I think of the

people who distribute the comics diamond diamond

diamond? You don't have to play their bullshit

games to getting your product to the market So

I'm actually a big fan of digital comics. I think

what you saw on my Facebook was me taking Cheap

shots at Apple, which I do every single chance.

I get sure does Yeah Yeah, but you know, it's

one of those things where like for me I Even

if I had whatever whether it's Android Apple,

whatever even if I had a device even if I had

one of those stupid Kindle things I would not

I don't want to read like I don't want to read

a book digitally. I don't want to read a comic

digitally. I want to Actually have that physical

copy. No, I'm with you and I'm on the same page

as you yeah, but there have been times That you

know, I've had to get a digital issue, you know

for our show because the local comic shop didn't

have it And I've read some on my phone and other

than the screen being a little too small, you

know on a smartphone It wasn't that bad. Like

I said, I'm with you. I'd rather have the paper

copy in front of me But it's not as bad as you

think and some people prefer it that way and

I think a lot of people see I think a lot of

people are just threatened by the idea of digital

they think that the paper copies are gonna go

away, and I don't think that's true. Digital

may become the primary method of distribution,

but it's never gonna be the only one. Excuse

me. We'll look at something like digital firsts,

like the one I know is Batman Beyond. Batman

Beyond? Aw yeah. That's a digital first and then

you know a couple weeks later it comes out in

print now I've said on the show before and I'm

not trying to repeat myself here, but my one

issue with the print versions Jlu Beyond and

Superman Beyond are in the same book the title

is Batman Beyond it should have That story like

my one problem was an issue issue 13 yeah issue

13 the end of the 10 ,000 clowns Storyline where

they broke up the story at the end of the first

story Bruce is like Terry called the league and

then the next story is like Flash or what you

know what it's the Justice League That's one

thing. I didn't like about it, but let's just

bad bad planning on DC's part Yeah, that's a

little strange. But no, the Batman Beyond Unlimited

coming up later this year is going to get really

interesting. And I'm so glad they gave Batman

Beyond another chance. It had kind of a rocky

start in comics. There's some like, oh, look,

future hush, the character no one asked for.

But I'm really glad they gave it a shot, even

if it's digital first. Yeah, it's actually the

the first 13 issues are coming out next month

in May 10 ,000 clowns trade paperback, so I'm

gonna get that and actually catch up Okay, cuz

I'm art. I'm already getting the other. I'm already

getting whatever the current like 13 14 15 comes

out This coming week, but what I love I just

found out just after wonder con Kyle Higgins

is taking over the writing. That's awesome. Yes,

because Kyle is one of those guys. I've heard

him on Fat Man on Batman. Kevin Smith had him

on for a two -part episode. And I saw the WonderCon

video that he did, or the WonderCon that Interview

Comic Vine did with him. I love his writing on

Nightwing. I'm going to love him writing Batman

Beyond, because he is one of those guys that

is a huge DCAU fan. Knows how to write the stories

around that continuity and it's gonna be so awesome

Yeah, what is he written that I might have heard

of I'm not familiar with Higgins Nightwing the

current No, he would knock you out with the passion

you hate Nightwing yet. Yeah Online says your

name is Dick Grayson, right? Yeah. No, that's

I write that's irony Yeah No, like I'm being

serious. I can't stay in the nightwing character.

Oh I I just I Don't know. I just don't like him

as a character I'm always gonna see him as the

Diet Coke of Batman and to me that's not interesting

I would say my hatred of Dick Grayson has become

hyperbolized, but it's only because people keep

playing jokes on me. Whenever the owners of my

LCS found out I don't like Nightwing, they started

pulling Nightwing into my pull box and making

all kinds of those jokes. And then my wife, for

Christmas, even got me a Nightwing t -shirt.

you know just to kind of rub it in but no i'm

not a nightwing fan nightwing questions on the

show like who would win a fight batman punisher

or nightwing oh wow that's a close one see for

me i think like batman is that epic character

he is that character everyone wants to live up

to sure Nightwing is the more Dick Grayson is

the more relatable like I can relate more to

him and his stories Than I can to so nice night

wings the guy that couldn't live up to the man.

So he decided to lower the standard Because Nightwing

actually was Batman for a while. And he was very

good at it. But also, I think Batman sees Nightwing

as a success story. Like, Nightwing had a very

tragic childhood. But Nightwing is the guy that

everyone knows and likes in the DC universe.

Nightwing is just a very caring, good -hearted

individual. And he's a very optimistic character.

I really admire that about Nightwing. And I think

it's... I think part of it is, again, going back

to BTIS and just seeing, you know, seeing and

hearing Lauren Lester voice the character, first

as Robin and then later as Nightwing in the New

Adventures, and just having that voice in my

head. uh... just like when i was reading you

know the bat books with with that the family

having conroy and hamill's voice is in my head

that's that's who i hear when i read not what

when i see how he is writing night when i hear

lauren lester's voice in my head and this is

one of those things where that's why i'm connected

to the character that's why enjoy the character

kyle higgins is telling some pretty amazing stories

there are spoilers for anybody who uh... hasn't

read this online yet but uh... coming up in uh...

this this month actually than the nineteen issue

he's going back to chicago because apparently

tony zucco is still alive i didn't like that

mania uh... i think it's going to be interesting

because the old like like i said new fifty -two

nightly is the only night when i've read and

before that my only exposure was bt is so it's

going to be interesting to see how kyle Writes

around the events of Robin's reckoning. Well,

the other thing is um, like he Tony Zuko's daughter

is in the Nightwing book and she's actually created

Getting closer night when I think the best thing

Kyle Higgins can do in that book is that Tony

Zuko opens up his mailbox And there's a DVD in

it. It's just Nightwing plowing his daughter.

I think that's the greatest revenge you can have

Camera every now and then and Tony's who goes

damn Nightwing. Oh that Nightwing Something like

that See that I wouldn't do that Yeah, and at

the end of the day he's still robbing what up

that you lose no No, he's he's grown past that

actually that I have a serious question. Did

you ever see that? fan trailer Grayson Yes, oh,

I thought that was amazing like if they could

make Guess that's that's when I would like Dick

Grayson if he could go back to the Robin persona

and just own it be like Yeah, I was Robin. What

up? I'm gonna smash your teeth in All right,

I think that's gonna take us to a close here

on the pullback I would like to thank Dane and

Jake for joining me Keep, uh, keep reading those

comics, ladies and gentlemen. We'll see you next

episode. And I have no idea what the next episode

is. It just depends on what the comics, what,

what comics get released between the time this

airs. Y 'all should put on the pull bag, uh,

Fury Max. That may be the best thing that, uh,

no one's reading. Uh -huh. It's pretty crazy.

So, make your great escape into comics and we

will catch you next time. You just heard. The

latest episode of The Pull Bag, GCRN's comic

book review podcast. There are several ways to

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