Reviewing Discovery S3, Episodes 5-9

Hello and welcome to future imperfect. I'm your

host Admiral Phillips and joining me in this

endeavor into Whatever this is Is the rest of

the panel go ahead and introduce yourselves?

Mike the bird man and I am the lieutenant commander

upon this flying garbage scow that somehow is

in Starfleet But I'm not alone on the bridge

of this thing joined by his own janitorial ship

among the stars No It could be infinitely more

interesting than what we're getting right now

I've been saying what was it for the last like

year we've been recording these What was I saying

every single time? Oh, I would love to just be

in charge of a garbage ship I didn't mean for

the whole show to become the garbage ship show

Yes, you got it though you got your garbage ship

and it's got a spore drive and it's driven by

idiots Every single person on the show has massive

psychological and emotional issues. And they

deal with none of them unless it's Michael or

Giorgio. No, they don't deal with them. It's

the equivalent of watching one of those 1970s

talk shows where everybody smiled and clapped

and laughed at everything everybody said. Even

if it was just like... talking about how horrible

your life was. And everybody's like, oh, you're

so amazing. Clap your hands. That's what we've

already jumped into this like from from garbage

scow to to an unbelievable pain. Yeah, I got

to a point where I was not only just like trying

to watch it and then fast forwarding parts that

I thought were boring. I had slouched so far

into my seat. I couldn't get out. I was just,

oh, I'm dying watching this show. So if you guys

haven't guessed we're going to be talking about

Star Trek Discovery Season 3, which is area across

Netflix Amazon Prime craving Canada and multiple

places across the world, but it's obviously not

the only thing we're going to be talking about

here on the show just to kind of give you guys

an idea. We've been taking the show in chunks,

so we don't just give you the week -by -week,

blow -by -blow of what's happening in Star Trek

Discovery. We also talk about other things on

the show. I know all of us here watch Star Wars'

Mandalorian, which if you are watching the latest

episode, which is the second to last for this

season, featured Bill Burr coming back as his

character Mayfield, which is... One site described

it as Mayfield's arc in that episode was more

significant than most of the sequel trilogy and

I can't disagree with that. Bill Burr has been

in a total on screen time because he had more

in this episode. Yeah, but maybe 30 minutes.

Yeah, and he's a more interesting likable and

well fleshed out character than three seasons

of discovery of any character. Yeah, it's kind

of amazing like. Like Belber's character of Mayfield

just has this great emotional arc. You get enough

of a info dump from him about his background

as an Imperial sharpshooter and how that all

kind of led to him watching his unit get destroyed.

There was like 10 ,000 people who died in like

space Boston or wherever he's supposed to be

from because he can't shake that accent. We constantly

get told about discovery though that There are

characters that are having such amazing story

arcs. And I don't see it. You know what it is?

It's it's like a CW show, but it's even worse.

It's it's so surface level. But people are attaching

their. It's like they're using their imagination

to see things that aren't there. See, I don't

know whether I agree with that entirely. And

here's what I mean. There are parts of season

seasons of discovery. I like, there are characters

that I like, but I don't care about the A plot.

I care more about the B plot. They're the new

character who's the Trill human. I can't remember

her name. Um, their name, their name. I really

like them. I like their journey with Stamets.

I like Tilly. I don't like where she is right

now. I don't know why you like Tilly. Can you

explain why you like Tilly? Cause I hate her.

I think the reason I like her as an actress,

like I think she's terrible. I like her as an

actress because I think I like not quite vulnerability,

but an excitability to it. Like she brings sort

of like if I was in Starfleet, I would be really

excited to be there, but not over the top, like

say Wesley Crusher was. But then again, she does

have these kind of fangirl moments at times.

I like that arc. What her character is is saying

the wrong things, screaming and swearing. Although

that being said, and I don't know whether Aaron

will agree with me here because you would be

the Star Trek expert out of all of us here. Considering

the way she acts, I don't think she'd be an officer.

I think, okay, I think she could be an officer,

but she wouldn't generally. be that way as an

officer, she would have gone through more training,

or counseling or therapy to get kind of past

that because I just don't see her as an officer,

even in ensign, not acting the way she does.

That doesn't mean I hate the way she acts. It's

just that she's not officer material, let alone

first officer material. Yeah, I don't see her

in a command position. She also looks like she's

like, 20 how in the hell are you the first like

you're on this like high -end Well prestigious,

you know secretive ship and you're somehow beating

out people that are 20 30 year veterans I don't

know if I have a problem with that because I

mean age might not have anything to do with skill

level or competence but the thing is is that

Tilly doesn't seem to be competent confident

or you know, has the skills that she needs to

actually do her job. Yeah, because I just skin

crawls every time she's on screen. I am who Tilly.

Yeah. The the thing about Tilly that I don't

like so far, the fact that she was made first

officer is I don't think she would be responsible

if she had to order people to die. And part of

command is knowing that your job may require

that. And I think part of it is one of those

things where it just doesn't work right. And

she's just not communicating with her crew that

I'm confident enough to lead you. Do you trust

me? And I may have to ask you to do the impossible,

even the sacrificial things at some point. And

I don't see her inspiring confidence in her crew.

I see her inspiring confidence to, Hey, Tilly,

we need to fix such and such a problem on the

ship, but not, Hey, there's 50 board drones over

there. I need 30 of you to go hold the line.

She would fit more in the lower deck show than

she does on the crew. Well, she's too uncertain

about herself. Remember that they actually had

a whole scene in order to prove that she's competent

and respected enough. But she's not. They just

had everybody say that she was. They don't show

that they feel that way. They just have all been

written to be that way. She's never shown that.

I kept saying this was a CW show. It's not. It's

a lifetime or hallmark channel show. Yeah, it's

it's masquerading a start. Yeah, because CW would

at least give more plot and make them actually

have a reason to hate each other or like each

other. Everything here is either. Everybody cries

every single episode, and it's not earned. None

of the reactions are earned. Everything is. either

it's so saccharine or over the top sweet. Everything

here is emotions amped to the max and manipulative

to the point where there's no logic. It's like

the Hallmark or Lifetime Christmas movies or

their terrible murder mystery series where it's

like they do like 12 murder mystery movies a

year with the same people. And it's the stuff

that like only people with cognitive memory issues

will like because they spell the plots out so

blatantly. There's nothing left to the imagination

and they try to force you to feel an emotion

instead of making you come to that conclusion

yourself. Yeah, everything about this show doesn't

it just doesn't feel like regular Star Trek.

We can go into each episode and what's wrong

with in each episode. I mean in the previous

the previous podcast, we covered just the first

four episodes, and there were already problems

in those first four episodes. But the first four

were at least somewhat likable. From here on,

they thought downhill fast. The first three,

even I was saying I liked the direction the show

was going. Episode four faltered a little bit.

Five, I'm like, whoa, what's happening? And then

six, seven, eight, nine. I felt like just grabbing

my clothes and then just walking into the forest

never coming back and freezing to death like

like I was in The Shining or something. When

I watched any of these episodes and I've gone

back and I've watched like original series episodes

I watched some Voyager episodes during this season

so far like I've just gone back to kind of cleanse

my palate I've always been able to find at least

one two three four things in an episode. even

like Spock's brain, for God's sakes. And that's

an awful episode. I've been able to find like

one to four things that are positive in those

episodes where I can go, oh, this was really

nice. I have never before come across an episode

of Star Trek where I couldn't find something

positive, but I finally did with the latest episode,

Terra firma part one. Yeah, I I it was I think

I told you guys online. It's the first time a

Star Trek episode has actually made me feel nauseous

like emotionally distraught and physically nauseous

from what it was trying to Accomplish that that's

the one I had to fast forward through just to

see the plot because I hated it so much this

I do that every episode This is something that

I noticed because I'm more of the casual fan

than you three are and I'm more Emotionally invested

in certain characters, but this is something

I've noticed especially in the last four episodes

because how I do the research for these future

imperfects is I Watch everything at once that

day. I let everything marathon So it's all fresh

in my head and I want to be able to reflect on

it in the moment and the thing is I don't care

about 95 % of what's on screen. I find myself

more attracted to the side plots inside characters

than I am anything that happens on the Michael

Burnham show. And I don't like the way that's

going on. Like I, I know they want to make this

on ensemble cast, but they split. things up so

unevenly, where some episodes you'll get a little

bit more Reno, you'll get a little bit more Stamets.

or whatever, but it's always Michael, and her

journey to me is never that interesting. It never

was an ensemble show. If you look at even how

they worded things, it was always the Michael

Burnham show. It was going to be her story, her

perspective. We want to tell a more personal

story from somebody who isn't an established

person on the bridge. They talked about that

before it started and were like, oh, that could

be interesting. And then we realized that it's

the the worst written thing I've ever seen on

television. I've never seen a show that has this

kind of budget squander it on horrible. You know

what it is too? It's bad casting. And I feel

like if anybody brings up that it's bad acting,

bad casting, bad writing, you're just told that

you're toxic. and i'm like but i'm not i might

say bad right i don't know about bad casting

because i like the actress that plays michael

sinequa green i think see i don't really care

for don't tell me that that they couldn't cast

her with a better actress and and the show would

be marginally better i'd be curious to know who

else might have been up for the role she when

when they tell her to go off the rail she hams

it up too bad worse than shatner ever did Ever.

I wanted, like, this is going back to the beginning

of the season, but I wanted to smash my TV with

a hammer when she was acting drunk, in quotes.

Yeah, that was a little... That was over the

top. I found that funny, but over the top. That

was Disney Channel bullshit. I'm surprised they

let that through. See, here's my perspective

on it, guys. Like, we've had two full seasons

and nine episodes in the third season. And I

finally figured, well, okay, the acting, it's

okay. Some episodes, the actors and actresses

do good. Sometimes it's bad. I think the directors,

when you can tell the quality of the directors

in the show, like when Franks is directing, things

are actually generally better. You can tell that

there's a quality director behind it. The problem

is, and I looked at this in this last episode,

in the credits, the opening credits, there are

seven actors How many producers are there listed?

22. Oh my God. That's a room controlled executively

by suits. This isn't just the case of too many

cooks in the kitchen. It's created by proxy.

There's no vision. If you look at the... Yeah,

there's no vision. There's no vision, there's

no ability for anyone to actually, whoever writes

the episode, I guarantee you what we see on screen

isn't what they wrote. It's been interfered with

a hundred times because some of these people,

some of these writers, are actually writers of

Star Trek novels. Like, you can say whatever

you want about, oh, Star Trek novel is terrible.

And they've been some of the worst episodes,

which is what got me. I was like, how? How? How?

How are you letting your name? Like, why isn't

every single episode written by Alan Smithy?

Yeah. Now, let me ask you guys this. What are

the episodes you guys like so far? I'll give

you my top three. You're the only ones I like

the season. I like two and three and the trail

one. Those are my top three. I like none. I honestly

have not liked a single one. I would say like

the top rated out of 10 of all of the of this

season so far is the second episode. And I gave

that 2 .5 out of 10. I think a lot of the problem

with this show, as we're kind of discussing right

now, there is no unifying vision. And I can't

tell you What, I mean, obviously they want to

solve the cause of what this burn thing is, which

to me, it sounded like it was, it was a lot cooler

from the trailers than what we're getting. It's

basically the universe ran out of gas, but whatever.

Um, I have a sneak in suspicion. And I said it

earlier that we thought like the burn was going

to be something that Michael Burnham did. I don't

know if it's going to be that I'm thinking they're

going to try to tie this together with. With

the Kelvin universe and it's going to be Spock

going through time fucked everything up and That's

something we got to talk about there needs to

explain that to me I have a feeling they're gonna

use this as a real fuck you to the old Trek fans

and say that the prime universe and the original

the original movies and the original series is

what fucked up this universe Okay, so We're talking

about these out of order. I don't care what happened.

That's my problem. I do not care about the burn.

It's a meaningless plot contrivance that is ignored.

Guess what? It stopped warp travel and it made

the Federation fall apart, but our main characters

are on a ship that can just completely ignore

it. And you know they're going to solve it at

the end of the season, so it means that everyone

in the 31st through 32nd century federation,

for over 160 years since the burn has happened,

were incompetent enough to not be able to fucking

solve it, but as soon as the ship from the 23rd

century came through, they were the only ones

that could figure it out. Andromeda, where I

kept saying this was like Andromeda. Andromeda

was written better, and it was considered the

joke of all sci -fi shows. At least in that one,

the explanation was it was quite literally the

fall of the Roman Empire. Things, you know, basically

drifted apart, fell apart through entropy. And

it also didn't go, oh, it's been about a hundred

years. In that one, it was over a thousand years

that things had fallen apart. So it would make

sense that people even forgot that it existed.

Empires that are that vast and large can fall

and it falls into distant memories or myths.

A hundred years in a future where there's very

likely people... How old was McCoy supposed to

be at the beginning of... Like 130, I think?

Yeah, he's like 130. There should be people in

this universe alive from before the burn. Yeah,

Vulcan's easy. Yeah, so bullshit on how nobody

knows anything is going on. And you know, here's

the other thing that ties into it. Subspace communications

is still fine. They're all okay. So everyone

can still communicate with each other. So why

did it fall apart? You have replicators You don't

have whatever material you need to exist on a

planet and continue communicating with everybody

There's no reason for things to fall apart It's

the and you can't blame this on they can't say

that if they come out and say that this is to

do with Coronavirus fucking up their plans. No

way Absolutely no way. This was written and they

had this planned. They had everything done before

anything happened. It might have affected shooting

schedules. But this is the latest victim of what

I would call the bad robot, but also the lost

-itis, which was, look at how they wrote lost.

Everything was MacGuffin, MacGuffin, MacGuffin.

The the season arcs where everything was to keep

you wondering like mystery mystery mystery mystery

mystery We're inching forward to this mystery

and they once they did that and it was successful

every single TV show followed suit because it

was lazy We lost we lost the ability to have

to have Like one -off episodes or like they lost

the ability to weave a storyline through a season

And then have individual episodes that don't

necessarily cater to that With the exception

of like the only show that still does that is

like law and order because it's been on for 22

years But we lost the ability to tell individual

good stories every episode. Everything has to

be serialized now why? You don't need a serialized

program when it's when you're binge watching

on a streaming platform You like the people think

that you need that you need that for a miniseries

if you're gonna do six episodes and tell one

story arc Yeah, then okay, but if you're doing

a whole 13, then you don't yeah every single

season of a show does not have to be a serialized

show and They're doing it because they're lazy

because this means they technically only have

to write one episode and then that's just really

long Yeah, it's this this entire show feels like

one long episode that could have been six Yes,

or you know what make why couldn't they've done

this whole season as three 90 minute movies?

I think stretching it. I think that's even stretching

it. Out of nine episodes so far, I honestly think

there's maybe one and a half episodes of material

here so far. Maybe. A movie. A Curseman movie.

I think they had a cool idea that was written

down. They're like, okay, here's what we're going

to do. And then they worked backwards from that,

but they didn't flesh it out. I mean, Everything

they've produced, everything this team has produced

and these producers have produced, it's this

show, what was the other one that was popular

for a hot minute, Sleepy Hollow, Grim, all these

shows that were like pseudo sci -fi slash supernatural,

and they always have the same exact plot points.

This is cookie cutter TV, and they're trying

to just shoehorn certain things into it. There's

no reason for the show to exist. It's not fulfilling

a purpose anymore. Star Trek always had some

purpose. And this is purposeless. It's like season

one, we have one plot. Season two, one plot.

So we've gotten nearly 50 episodes. It'll be

like 40 episodes or something like that by the

end of the season. And we've had the equivalent.

You take out the filler. and we're not talking

about - You've had four episodes. Yeah. Without

the filler being like character development,

there's barely been any of that. You've got maybe

what would have accounted for each season is

like the TV movie that they used to do in the

later seasons of Next Gen, where it would be

a double parter. That's all we've got. Then they

just fill in the rest with - Meaningless shit.

Like it's literally meaningless. The only episodes

that had anything interesting involving with

them were seasons two, where they brought in

the enterprise and that's going to get its own

show. But I just hope that they like somebody

at Paramount goes, Hey, you know, We're not like

they can't be getting the viewers. They just

can't Oh, but they're not you go online like

I sit online and and I'm in like a couple Star

Trek Discord servers and things like that. There

are people that absolutely love this show and

think the characters are So so deep and developed

and they're they go over the plot. I'm like,

what are you watching? Yeah, like I'm not gonna

I don't even want to bother engaging because

even asking the question of What is it that you're

saying? Like how like not just how do you like

them? What do you like about them? And what made

you come to that conclusion? People won't answer

or there's or their skin deep so shallow they

can't give a proper response and the only reason

that they're saying that is they like them because

They're the people that watch those Christmas

movies where the Christmas movies music tells

you that you're supposed to like it That's all

this is. I don't even like the camera work this

season. No What's funny is one of the Discord

servers I'm on, it's for a Star Trek sim that

multiple people write for. And it's infinitely

more profound than what we're getting on this.

But the people, it's funny because they have

a positive and a negative spoiler area for Discovery

and Picard and whatever. With this recent one.

They they were like this is so deeply profoundly

bad spectacularly bad a special level of bad

This is an example how not to write Terrence

or mirror universe story And they were talking

about you know, if you're gonna do it, don't

be dumb And in the fact that you know, George

Joe's basically wasted, you know saying I'm evil

her her look at me and They were like, uh, when

they suggested locking her up to die, he was

like, I'm all for it. I have no reason to like

the character. They even made it cartoonishly

evil. Yeah. Last like, like it's she's been with

this crew for, you know, potentially what, I

don't know what timeline is in the show. Wait

a minute. Yeah. It's been what we've watched

what three years of the show and hasn't everything

taken place over the course of like two months.

Less than a year for sure. Yeah, so Giorgio has

been every day. She's only been on Discovery

since right before the end of season two. And

you can maybe say there's been about three months

where she's been on the ship. And every time

you've seen her, every single time she's insulting,

she throws crap on people like literally like.

just knocking food onto like Tilly. She laughs

about violence. She commits incredible acts of

violence. And somehow, and this is the thing

that got me physically ill, that you have a character

that is the representation of like a fascist

dictator in this show, right? She was the Empress

of the Terran Empire. She ate people. She ate

people, okay? She committed genocide on planets.

And As she's dying, they're gonna beam her down

to a planet to go to this stupid door that might

cure her, right? First of all, why - Because

every single person on the ship is so stupid,

they see her and go, well, it's the mirror universe

version of the captain we liked. Yeah, and then

Saru, Saru of all people, he knows that she ate

Kelpians. and insulted him. The last time she

saw him, she was insulting him backwards and

forwards. And he comes down and refers to her

as the Emperor and wishes her good luck. And

then Tilly gives her a hug and says, oh, you

know, you've made me a better person. What in

the fuck is going wrong with the writing room?

This would be like me shaking hands with Hitler

and saying, good luck, Das Führer. I hope you

don't off yourself in the freaking bunker. It's

like, I'm serious. It sickened me. That was where

I wanted to turn it off. That's why I fast forward

the rest of the episode. Because it got to the

point where the writing room, they obviously,

it's like they got their contract for the next

season and they just don't care. Is it a question

of... them writing now and then going, this is

so bad, let's see if they make it. Well, this

is funny. This quote actually talks about it

a little bit from this Discord server. Says the

thing about the mirror universe that it's deliberately

ridiculous. It's just basic high concept story.

What if the heroes are evil? The problem is that

it's too simplistic. So you end up with shallow

characters rather than characters. That's fine

for shameless fun like how TOS and Enterprise

did it. But Discovery needed to put actual thought

into these stories and characters. Yeah, they're

evil. Why are they evil? Discovery just shrugs

its shoulders, puts the actors in leather, tells

them to choose some scenery, then calls this

a success. The whole thing is bizarre. It's not

fun and narratively. It has almost nothing to

to it they have a kernel of an idea in the philip

of uh michael thing but they have no idea what

to do with it so they're just flailing around

aimlessly i can mention i have a serious problem

with the costumes this season uh the mirror universe

looks like a a like from a spoof movie from like

a zemeckis spoof movie of flash gordon do you

know that they actually remade all the costumes

for the mirror universe this season they look

worse Oh yeah, they look worse. And did you also

have you also noticed overall this season the

general low quality of all the ship effects and

the lighting? That I can argue is twofold. One,

from people I know that actually worked on the

set, they were told this was the last season.

And then the last minute Paramount came in because

of the... them shutting down the network and

starting up Paramount Plus. I would be surprised

if the next season looks a little better, but

that's one part of it. The other part is I could

see how COVID affected it. Production -wise,

I can get that the special effects maybe weren't

going to be the same quality. Why? You can do

all the special effects from home. You can if

you're competent. But because if you watch, if

you watch Trek yards, right? Like there's a YouTube

series called Trek yards. I really like these

guys. You know, Samuel cockings, he's not a professional,

but he his stuff that he does is a hundred times

better than what you see in in discovery. Weren't

they the ones that re edited that end battle

scene with Picard and had the enterprise and

you know, all these other ships fly in? Yeah.

Yeah, and it looked a whole hell of a lot better.

I think this can also be a case of when Trek

was being done with every previous show, the

production houses that were working on it were

basically dedicated to that program. Same with

how Stargate used to do it. They had an effects

team. The effects teams that are working on this

show, I think, are juggling like three or four

or five projects at once, and they're just...

outsourcing things, lowest common denominator.

The whole attitude, it seems, of Kurtzman's production

team is, is it good enough to air that we won't

get in trouble? Everything here feels like a

first draft. Every episode feels like a pilot,

feels like something you'd retool later on. Folks,

you can't tell. Like, we haven't even really

talked specifically about any of these episodes

because there isn't a lot to talk about that

is worth talking about. Right? Wrong. It's not

me, you know, and you guys, we're not just complaining

because we're toxic old fans. Something doesn't

feel right about even the look of the show, the

sheen of the show. Everything feels kind of plastic

looking. there's no emotion to even the cinematography

isn't good and it was it was sort of new and

innovative when it first came out they tried

to i guess mimic the movies but on a lower budget

something about how you always feel like you're

a spectator in the show yes so when they're showing

like george oh getting tested and everything

it always looks like i'm sitting in my room watching

on a projected screen There's nothing in the

show that pulls you in to make you feel that

you're with the cast Or that your and it's probably

the lighting is a big factor with everything

being so dark What ship would have everything

be so dark and so saturated? Like you you wouldn't

you want bright lights and have everything clean

so you can see what's going on in the ship Everything

seems like you wouldn't be able to get your job

done because you wouldn't be able to see where

you're going See, but there's there are so many

layered problems in this show and I agree there's

lighting But it all boils down to you can have

shitty plots You can have poor production as

long as you have characters that are actually

well written You can even have bad actors as

long as you have good written characters, but

there are no characters in the show Farscape

was, you know, low budget. I mean, it had the

Henson puppets, take it or leave it, whether

or not you like that style. But that was a show

where it was clearly the writing and the acting,

Sean, through, even when they hammed up certain

parts in certain episodes and went over the top,

it still felt like you were with, like, the show.

You weren't watching a show. And it's something

I don't know how... Like, there's going to be

a point where people study the show. And there's

so many things that they're doing wrong. I actually

saw them break the line of continuity when they

were panning cameras a few times and it didn't

look right. And I'm like, what happened? Oh,

they're breaking filmmaking 101 rules to break

immersion. And they're not, they don't even realize

they're doing it. So there's, we're at a point

now where I don't even think it's a directing

thing. I think it's just the whole crew is incompetent.

And they're doing what they think they're supposed

to do, but. Like, there's not a single vision,

like you said, for the show. There's not a, who

is the guy that's in charge of Mandalorian with

Favreau? Is it Filoni or? Filoni, yeah. There's

two people on there. You know, one is basically

helping with the art direction, which would be

Filoni. And then you've got Favreau as the head

honcho producer and everything has to go through

him. There are individual producers for individual

episodes, but everything has to follow the plan

he set forth. He's not as hands -off as people

think. Well, the two of them together have created

this great program that even something that's

30 minutes long or 52 minutes long is equally

as enjoyable and memorable and not filler. There's

people on that show that are not good actors.

But they get great performances with what they're

given. Pedro Pascal is great, obviously, but

you've got people... What's her name? Gina Carano?

Gina Carano. She's not a good actress. No, but

she does her physical stuff well. Yeah, she's

a stunt woman, but she fits. And you know what?

It's fine. In fact, the acting is better than

some of the Star Wars movies and even the originals.

Then you go say what you will about the Orville.

Seth MacFarlane rules that with an iron fist.

And every episode starting in season two was

consistent once he had Fox out of his hair telling

him that it had to be a comedy. And you look

at other successful shows, even like Game of

Thrones, the reason the last couple seasons,

especially the last season, got a lot of flak

was... There was a point where Warner started

to try to interfere and said, well, we've got

to wrap it up. We have to have it done. So they,

they had to rush some of the writing out. So,

but the, the show's look and feel was still consistent.

Every episode here feels like it's made by a

different person. Like you could there, but you

know what I mean? Like, but every show out there,

you watch like law and order. It's every episode

will have a different director, different crew,

different, but it still has a consistent look,

feel and tone. And. because there's somebody

in charge that makes it look and feel that way,

whether it be Dick Wolf or some of these producers,

they have a certain feel where you're like, oh,

I know it's so -and -so's show because it has

that feel. This show doesn't feel like anybody.

It feels so scatterbrained. And plot -wise, we

haven't really gone over much, but what's really

happened? They have some data about the burn,

the Vulcans and the Romulans. No more than what

they're letting on. All, all of their makeup

looks wrong. Um, terrible. Well, okay. I would

think here is where I'm a pretty good litmus

test of this, this show. You guys are hardcore

Trek fans. I'm not dude. I'm really not that

hardcore. I am somebody in a way more than me.

I'm somebody I've you've seen more episodes than

I have. Which is weird. I know I'm somebody though

that I'm not a hardcore fan. I just want some

consistency in my products. And the point I'm

trying to make here is if you asked me to explain

this season of discovery, I can, all I know is

it's about the burn Michael Burnham. They went

forward like a thousand years. Okay. That's all

I can really tell you. Oh, and Starfleet sucks.

And David Cronenberg's there for some reason.

Yeah. Yeah. And she's made, she has a boyfriend

who has a cat who in all of the trailers made

it seem like they were central to the story and

they're in a total of three episodes. Yeah. And

although I will give a plus to one episode where

the cat in the Andorian have a scene together.

I did have a good laugh. What is it? But again,

that's I love that because it was so dumb. But

Mike, you're looking at it from a single scene.

How did that scene make sense in the show? It

didn't. All it did is that they tried to pay

off something with Detmer and unless you've stuck

with the series the entire time, you don't know

that she's a pilot with PTSD. No, she does not

have PTSD. That's the problem, you know, because

they say she does they haven't they haven't written

her to actually yeah exactly They try and tell

you that but they've never shown it and then

she magically just overcomes it, which is Great,

I guess but it's not earned and that scene with

the cat Mike it it was a very cheap It was a

very Stargate joke that would fit with the tone

of Stargate and what they've established in that

franchise Yes, it does not fit with Star Trek

Absolutely, completely agree. And that's like

we've all talked about. There's no unified vision.

There's no unified feel with this. The internal

consistency with this series is very off and

it's very off putting. As I wrote on Facebook

today, I'm very disinterested because I don't

care about what's going on. And that's as we've

discussed, I am not an old, foggy Star Trek fan.

I want something exciting. And in the first couple

episodes, I was, OK, this looks interesting.

And the only episode I've liked since then is

I like the Trill episode because, OK, that's

something different. And I like the episode where

they go to the junk planet and scavenge some

gear. I thought that was OK. Everything else

I didn't like. The cat scene with the Andorian.

Do you know what that character basically was?

Almost the same character that we saw in the

Mandalorian, that's the blue dude. Oh, Horatio

Sans or whatever? Yeah, the same tone. And it

fits there. Why? Because it fits that tone and

it fits in that world. It seems out of place.

They're hodgepodging things here left and right.

They're pulling. It's almost as if somebody in

the writing room is like, you know what? This

is a funny scene, but it doesn't fit. Oh, put

it in because it made the producer laugh. Yeah.

And that's, you're right. There is no unifying

vision. There is no series Bible for how this

show should be laid out. And if you're, and what

I don't like is when somebody brings it up, not

just to the, to the fans that are, you know,

super, I would say they're toxic by like just

dismissing and harping on people that complain.

But if you bring up, if a critic brings up something

that they didn't like about the episode, which

still is kind of rare. I don't know what's going

on with. the critic media now where this has

become an OK TV show. But if they do bring up

those that do bring up problems with it, whenever

you hear Kurtzman and people talk about it, they

come across a smug and and then not just dismissive,

they're they're they're active. It's almost like

it's like Trump. They're like they they can do

no wrong. And it's everybody else's problem and

that you just don't get it. Yeah, that's that's

definitely what I feel that they're doing to

the fans on a whole is trying to make them feel

bad for disliking something that actually sucks

So yeah, like it's it's it's I Didn't mean to

cut you off there in there earlier, but we're

just you're fine. You're fine No, I'm very frustrated

at the show because I will say I am a super fan

of Star Trek and it and I've said to you guys

like off off the podcast This pains me because

Star Trek means a lot to me. I mean, I write

for Star Trek, Star Trek I grew up with, it means

a hopeful future. It is there to show us what

humanity can be and to explore morality that

we might not, well, problems with morality that

we might have in certain situations or coming

up with quandaries that should make us think.

you know how many times have we gone back to

episodes that are like the deal with assisted

suicide or racism and and you watch that and

you still kind of get chills because you're like

wow this is this is an episode that actually

made people think or made me think or made me

look at a situation in a different way but you

never get that in discovery or picard but You

don't have these situations. You don't have episodes

that make you think you have episodes that make

you question what the people were thinking when

they wrote it. Yeah. The show's not about making

you think anymore. It's about making you feel

or else. It's about action set pieces and a cool

idea, but it never goes beyond a cool idea. It's

never, this is a cool idea because of whatever.

It's not as well thought out narratively. as

I wanted to. I think some of the strength of

the previous Star Trek series, as we just mentioned,

it makes you question things. It makes you think.

But you also had characters in some ways you

could relate to. And here I don't feel any relation

to the characters. And it's not that everybody

on the show is bad. I just don't think the writing

is strong enough to give them depth. Until recently

when Saru went crazy, almost everybody except

for him, I would almost argue is a bad person.

Is there anybody good on the crew that is genuinely

good and not selfish or mean or rude to people

other than, uh, uh, I guess doctor husband. And

even then he's selfish. No, you're anybody that

is, that is a genuinely good person on this entire

show. No, no, they all hate each other and they're

snippy. Yeah. And I think that's a weakness in

writing. because I don't see a lot of interpersonal

development. They have moments where it's given

during dialogue and it doesn't always pay off

in the way that I want it to. And I think of

this scene in particular, because I saw it today,

Stamets and Hugh are in bed and they're having

a conversation about the Trill person and they're

saying, well, this person is confiding in me.

They're a teenager, but they're a genius. And

they're alone just like I was for a while when

they lost someone they love. And Hugh says something

along the lines of, does that remind you of anybody?

And he's like, I guess that's me. And say, it

took you three years to get to this moment where

you have a moment of character. And it's, it's

killed with having the camera constantly moving.

Yeah. And how was the show, sorry, I'll pause

this. How was the show with so much camera movement?

So many quick shots, so much constant moving

with lights and everything. How can that show

be more boring than the static cameras that we

used to see in Star Trek? They managed to do

it, though. I don't know how they do it, but

it's more boring watching when it's constantly

moving. Nothing sits in. No emotional moment

is ever able to set in because the camera never

sits on somebody for more than two seconds. There

are a few moments, but they never linger. Yeah,

no, you're right. The camera movement constantly

takes you out of the scene because you can't

sit there and watch the scene and be a part of

it because you're constantly moving Like there's

one scene again referring back to Stamets and

the trill They they start playing music together

and he says and he's playing something I think

it's on the piano or something and it says hey

I'm gonna show you something and I think G minor.

It's real easy And I wanted that scene to just

be a few more seconds longer because I think

they really could have pulled something out of

that. And I think the actor who placed him, I

want to say his name is Anthony Rapp. And I'm

not a hundred, a hundred percent sure on that.

Yeah. That guy can pull emotion out of a scene

when you let him and discovery always has him

being snippy and sarcastic, which he's fun and

funny. And I think it suits his character. But

I want to see more of his emotional development

with him him and his husband or her or sorry

him and the troll person And I don't know just

I want more of the emotional stuff, but I want

it to be earned like I don't There's it's it's

too much emotional stuff in this like I know

what you mean though. You you want? Heartfelt

moments that aren't Superficial. Manipulator.

Yeah, exactly. Like I want something that makes

sense. And the thing is, as much as this wants

to be the Michael Burnham show, I don't care

a lot about some of her journey. Some of it I

do, but not a lot at all. Saru stuff, I get some

of the uncertainty of being put in command. I

get that. I used to be about Saru. I used to

say, give Saru a lot of leeway. But after this

last episode, fuck yeah, that was like, so obviously

we're not going to discuss the plots of most

of these. We sort of skimmed bits and pieces.

We'll talk about the plot, obviously, of this

last one. What I want to say even more so in

how this season has sort of prodded along and

we keep saying that nothing's really happening

for them, introducing some really high concepts

and big ideas. with how the universe is. How

can this show still feel so small? Do you notice

that they're not really going... They go to the

same planets, the same places. It's starting

to feel more and more like a sci -fi TV show,

like on the sci -fi network, where they're hampered

by such a low budget. I think it's episode five.

you get to see a really brief image of a map

in the Admiral's briefing room of like where

this star base is compared to like where Earth

and Andoria and Tellar and the Ferengi are. And

it turns out like 90 percent, well almost all

these episodes except for this last one where

they jump to the other side of the galaxy, it's

all basically taking place 20 light years around

Earth. Seriously, I'm not joking. Yeah, I'm serious

all like emerald chain is just the Andorians

and Orions in a long chain There's like the Romulan

remnant. You can see on it. There's the Ferengi

trade zone, which is right there But yeah, it's

only about 20 light years a 20 light year bubble

Which is what they travel in what like a minute?

Well, no, no, I mean if you want to get down

to it like at warp five and the old TOS scale,

that's like maybe two months to get across. Okay.

But they're, that's the old TOS scale. So that's

like, you know, in, in, in TNG, that's maybe

a week and for 30 seconds closer to this would

be enterprise, right? Like enterprise, didn't

they travel farther than that in the first episode?

Yeah. Yes, they did. Okay. So The other thing

before we get into the plot of that last episode

leading into, I guess, the two -parter is the

biggest problem I have with this entire season

is that archive of information, that living archive.

More to think about. The more I think about it,

it's going to be connected. It's going to be

the reason the burn happened, or it's going to

be evil, or we're going to find something worse.

We're going to find that control somehow copied

part of itself into the AI of the ship, and that's

what caused the blah, blah, blah. Regardless,

I don't understand how everybody on the ship

can be so stupid into thinking that where they

spent an entire season fighting evil AI that

wanted to wipe out all life on the universe,

and they're not only okay with having an AI on

their ship, but think it's there to protect them

and they're all smiles and just let it happen.

Yeah, they just kind of drop that plot element,

didn't they? But it's not just everybody on the

ship that is just, I don't know, everyone in

this that's in the show period, all of the new

Starfleet, the Vulcans. They're all idiots. Like

the only way these plots work is if if you don't

do basic research Well, yeah, like they they

they also introduced with that AI showing that

it was glitching out, right? And then yeah How

that was not the immediate plot of the next episode

boggles my mind with this with a show that's

supposed to be serialized how that's that's just

Hey, it's okay. The ship loves us. What do you

mean the ship loves us? Now we're all going to

watch Buster Keaton because the ship loves us.

Excuse me? Mixed. You've got that. It's so...

It's so bonkers out there. The only person in

this entire show that they've shown out of every

episode for every season that seems to be competent

or know what's going on or is a believable person

from any other Trek property ever would be Cronenberg's

character, who's been in a total of like four

minutes of programming. Oh, but Cronenberg in

this last episode, he just spouted nonsense as

well. that just makes no sense. Of course he

spouted nonsense, but his character is a believable

character that would exist in, you know, in Trek.

You could see him being from some shadowy organization,

blah, blah, blah. Sure, okay. Every other character

in the show, I wouldn't, like, I'm waiting for

this show to end and just have this whole thing

be some horrible acid trip that Barclay had during,

like, holodeck sickness. I actually I actually

talked about a theory that I had that this discovery

is all a near -death experience from Picard.

That he's literally dying and he's dreaming up

discovery. He's also dreamed up season one of

Picard. But it explains why Spock is so involved

because Spock is kind of in Picard's head. Why

like Burnham is the long lost sister to Spock,

how Spock ended up saving the universe because

of the Kelvin incident, how Spock is still loved

on Vulcan because he ended up reunifying the

Vulcans and the Romulans in the end. And it explains

why there's discovery shuttles everywhere. It's

just Picard making things up as his brain is

dying. I honestly think it's just as good of

a theory. They can still retcon it all. They

can change things. It's going to make people

pissed. It'll make us pissed and everything.

But you could do things to appease the continuity.

I just don't think they're capable or have the

want to do it unless somebody high up a paramount

says, fuck this. We were going to start from

scratch. And they may have to. I don't know how

they're maintaining subscriptions. I'm wondering

if a lot of the people that are praising it are

just pirating episodes. Because I can't see people

spending money for this being the only show.

People spend money for The Mandalorian. Yeah,

majority of the guys that are on the Discord

server I'm on don't pay for it. Exactly. Because

they haven't given you a reason to come back

week after week to want to. If it's so divided

right now that... there are going to be people

that would be interested to see it they're just

going to wait till like the last episode airs

pay for one month 10 bucks and watch all of it

it's not like this isn't like the mandalorian

where it's become water cooler like every friday

people have to watch and so like let's get into

the plot of that last episode and then we can

sign off because i think that that it's because

of how pissed off we are that we have to explain

it i mean is this an episode where q shows up

and then i just I just zoned out or like it's

Q, right? Who knows if it's he calls himself

Carl Yeah, they're almost pulling like a guardian

thing like here walk through the door And that

guy is a veteran actor from all of the Abrams

crap too, by the way all the TV shows He was

in the original CSI he was a main main character

in the original CSI show. Yeah Yeah, and again

not a bad actor himself. I If you're going to

introduce the concept of the queue, it's not

a bad way to do it in here. But again, ship that

has AI intelligence of everything in the known

universe of all time forever. Wouldn't it, if

it loved them, give them a warning? And wouldn't

it have been down to the right spot? Because

it said they knew exactly where to even beam

down. And then suddenly they had to walk for

a couple of hours. Like for a ship that loves

them so much, it should know about It's not in

scanners or it doesn't compute. It does not detect.

There's nothing here, but it's here. Wouldn't

this magical ship AI that knows everything that

ever happened in the history of the universe

go, probable cause could be life form of this

blah, blah, blah, similar to the cube, blah,

blah, blah. Telling me the Q is not in this ship's

AI that's been collecting data for. Like a thousand

years or more like well as far as I understood

the sphere data was like a hundred thousand years

worth of data from the area right around earth,

you know, so in the Federation in The last house

would have known what happened with the key.

Yeah, but now all of a sudden it has information

from the other side of the galaxy as well in

it and Now it's like okay. Well now the computer

knows everything so Now we can just solve all

the problems in the universe. But they don't.

But they don't unless they need to for the plot.

And then they just do immediately. How are they

not, how are they not freaking out every second

that this unknown entity could be stealing their

information and using it? When did Star Trek

become, like Star Trek was always about optimism.

not blind ignorance. But yes, so you know, the

new captain of Discovery thanks the Emperor and

wishes her good luck. Because you know, that's

optimism, you know, because because like you

said, Hile Hitler. Yeah, God, it sickens me,

sickens me. So so that episode with. Craft or

whatever the one where it takes place. I can't

remember when but it can't be too far off from

Where they're at now The the short track I have

no idea the short track probably I don't know

what they're gonna have to do with the short

track The discovery that they show in the short

track. It's not it was in calypso Huh? Yeah,

that is true yeah but it's also yeah you said

it's a different looking discovery so like obviously

they fucked up bad and because what are they

going to do strip all the new tech out of this

thing and they're gonna have a parallel universe

version again or is this going to be a case of

they they wanted to connect it they still think

it's connected but they still fucked up and didn't

realize it i have a feeling they didn't realize

they fucked up by altering the ship i have a

feeling that you're correct This is in universe

far future which if it's you know Far future

then yeah, so they have the idea is somehow they

lose all the tech off the ship Does that sphere

orb shit just be like blah blah blah? I'm gonna

strip all this tech off of here, and I'm gonna

go become veger or some shit It's there's some

sort of garbage with this, but Yeah, the plot

of this last episode like we said is Georgia

was dying people somehow seem to care and actually

don't want it to happen, even though she's done

nothing but be violent and actually potentially

ruined relationships. Yeah, and like cartoonishly

evil. Like more evil than like you'd see in a

stereotype from Flash Gordon. Then they go down

to a planet. She walks through a door by some

sort of created by like a Q type entity. and

she walks through and it's like 2001 Space Odyssey.

She like walks into her, which she believes to

be her, like the mirror universe or her version

of what the prime universe should be. And she

walks off a shuttle. And am I the only one that

noticed that when she walked through, like, shouldn't

you have seen her walking through like an event

horizon? She just sort of is there and there's

no more doorway, which is very - It's all right.

Yeah, she's not really there. Yeah, so she walks

off and then she's like blah And they're all

like heil hitler and she's like yay And she's

like, why am I doing here? Aren't all these people

dead or what's going on? And then she's like,

oh wait My personality has slightly changed because

they've made me a better person in a couple weeks

After i've been eating people and and ruling

and murdering thousands of millions of people

for my entire life Okay, and but but remember

it leaves on a cliffhanger but all the when i

hear people saying oh look at all the the character

development that's happened with georgio no wait

a second the only the the two things that they

show that they say are like oh look she's she's

not wanting to like off burn them and that she

treated that she like saved saru okay well wait

a second it's it's always for selfish reasons

there's nothing that she does because she wants

to Yeah, well, first of all, from season one,

we already know that Emperor Georgiou has a soft

spot for Burnham. And that's the whole reason

there was a fucking rebellion in the first place.

So there is no character development there. And

then her savings through is completely for selfish

reasons. So there's no character development

there. Like, I don't understand what people are

watching. Well, remember, her facial expression

slightly changed, and the music told me I have

to feel different. I got to do what the music

tells me, right? And then everybody else is smiling

and looking concerned. So the music tells me

I have to, I must, no, no, you're wrong, you're

toxic. I don't understand. Because, you know,

the music told me. I don't either literally this

show is literally the music tells you how to

feel and then you must love it We're sorry for

going on bah humbug we really are bah humbug

I want the show to be better. Please make it

watchable Please make me not angry. I try I try

to go into every single episode with an open

mind and It's gone from Taking 10 -15 minutes

before I get mad to before the credits start

So yes, that's all that's that's all I gotta

say on this myself You have a lot to say on this

I agree with everything that's been said I'll

be so happy to go back and watch Stargate this

this Christmas season then I will watching this

I'm gonna go back and watch TNG I'm looking forward

to Stargate because I just want something fun

a little bit light with some action that makes

a little bit more sense and One more Christopher

judge fun with good writing a good tone and doesn't

talk down to its audience God I miss Star Trek.

I miss Star Trek so much I can't wait for more,

uh, lower decks because you know, season two

ain't happening for a while. It's making me more

happy. That's yeah. If we want to speculate before

we, you know, break for the holidays here, I

have a feeling that we're going to see lower

decks before we see the other shows because of

the way things went with the pandemic, because

that show is produced. I think in, is it William

street or one of those ones down in like Georgia

that makes it or something? Uh, so it's, it's

something that can be made fairly quickly. And

as much as I might have had issues with that

show initially, it started to get better and

better with each episode. And everything that

we said that we didn't like about, what was her

name in there? Oh, the main character from Lower

Decks. Shit, I can't remember. Oh my God, what's

her name? See, that's how memorable everything

is. Yeah Right Mariner. Yeah Mariner. Yeah, everything

we didn't like about Mariner. That's like like

3 % of what we don't like about this show yeah,

like like what we don't like about her is that

she doesn't fit with that show and Everything

else seems to be fine So so yes, I would be very

happy to see more of that I guess we're gonna

probably break before you know Christmas and

we'll come back because There's what four more

left three more left 10, 11, 12, 13? There's

four more. It's 10, 11, 12, 13, yeah. So I guess

we'll be back sometime mid -January to talk finale.

And then who knows? They have four episodes to

see if they can course correct. And I ain't very

optimistic. But I have a feeling that, you know,

we'll come into it with less vitriol than we

did here because I feel like that slight bump

in quality they made at the very beginning of

the season. Was a fake out and that's why we're

even more pissed now now like I can't see how

it could get worse So I'm actually interested

to see how it gets worse Anyhow Take us out Mike.

All right guys. Well that has been this episode

of future imperfect as always We do look forward

to hearing from you So if you want to reach us

you can reach me and Alex and Aaron at feedback

at this week in geek net our social media is

at This Week in Geek. That's how you reach all

three of us. If you happen to be in the Twitterverse,

we also have a Facebook fan page at This Week

in Geek. We are taking a winter hiatus. Me and

Alex are currently working on our reviews of

Cyberpunk 2077. Alex is playing on Stadia. He'll

have first impressions. If not, by the time this

is up fairly shortly, we will have a final impression

review. Later in the month once I put significant

time into it as of this recording I'm 50 hours

in I just started the main story because I've

been horsing around Exploring the world of Night

City will also be starting the Star Trek or sorry

star Star Trek Stargate actual play podcast sometime

in late January or early February Here on the

show. So make sure you keep an eye out for that

from Wyvern gaming that game system is powering

the actual play podcast So the backer kits just

went out for that this past weekend. So yeah,

that should be fairly one. You want to find out

more information about that. If you Google Stargate

SG -1 RPG, you can find out more about that.

So hopefully you guys have a safe and happy holiday

however you decide to spend it as always listen

to public health departments for direction on

how to spend your holidays if you do choose to

gather or if it's safe to do so please be responsible

please be careful please think of others and

of course thank the frontline workers in your

community whenever you possibly can and if you

can help out a family less fortunate please do

so as well so For this week in Geek's Future

Imperfect, starting in the great state of Colorado,

we have been Steve Megatron Phillips from the

wilds of Michigan. Aaron Paulier. And of course,

over in the next city, the sister city, in my

opinion. That would be out. That's it. That's

it. I've been Mike the Birdman and until next

time folks live long and prosper.