Remote Control – Finishing Finales – Gotham

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and joining me is Jeremy Fine. Hello. I am the

king of Gotham. No, you're not. No. Remote Control

will be about current generations of television.

This time around, we debut finishing finales.

This is to talk about... The season finale and

how we liked or disliked the show as it aired

and if we kept up with it since our pilot premiere

episode. So basically, folks, if you listened

last year, I think we had six pilot premieres.

It was Gotham, Flash, Red Band Society, Stalker,

Scorpion, Forever. If you listen to all of that,

and I'll put the link to the Gotham episode in

this podcast in case you hadn't listened to that.

On the Gotham pilot premiere, Michael Powers

from Off the Cuff had joined me, and he has since

dropped the show. When they took that big break,

I think over Christmas or whenever the hell it

was, he basically said he hasn't watched it since

the break. Season one is now over. where, you

know, kind of like, okay, that's good. That's

great. Jeremy, you have been writing reviews

of each episode as we've gone along for season

one on geekcastradio .com. And how this is going

to work is finishing a finale is essentially

going to be the same structure. As pilot premieres,

we're going to talk about the stage dressing

and give you all the technical info. We are going

to get on the casting couch, but this time for

the casting couch, what we're going to do is

we're going to talk about how we think the actors

did throughout the season. In pilot premieres,

I talked about Donald Logue and what else he'd

been on, or Ben McKenzie and what else he had

been on, or whatever. On the finishing finale's

casting couch, we're going to talk about how

we think the actors did in their roles on the

show. And then we'll get into spoilers for the

show itself. More specifically, the finale is

where the discussion's going to go. And then

after that, we'll exit stage left and go on from

there. So, since you weren't on the pilot premiere

episode, what were your initial thoughts and

feelings when they first announced Gotham? I

was a little conflicted because I am old school.

I was not concerned about going on the interweb

or any entertainment weekly. I was just going

to sit back. I heard that there was going to

be this prequel to Gotham, and I thought, okay,

it's either going to be one or two things. It's

either going to be what Smallville was to the

CW or the WB, or maybe it was going to be a different

type of prequel. we would learn something about

Thomas and Martha Wayne. That's what I thought,

like the origins of how Gotham was formed by

the families. Now, the continuity at 75 years

of D .C. I know that the Waynes helped build

Gotham, if the Nolanverse tells you so itself,

and the video games. But then, of course, there

are the Cobblepots, and the continuity especially

changed a lot in the Arkham City video game.

So I was kind of curious if they were going to

bring in the families. of Gotham, of how they

built Gotham, and then how the mafia started

to rise, and that's how I thought it was going

to go. When I finally saw a preview during the

summer, and I saw like, okay, Bruce Wayne is

screaming his kids, and all of a sudden we get

this promo, before Penguin, before Ivy, before

Riddler, and we would see what they're like,

I guess as tweens or whatever, there was Gotham.

And I was like, okay, maybe it's going to be

a 1940s piece. I don't know. Now it's kind of,

it's not even steampunk. It's like, it's now,

but they're trying to make it in the 1940s, but

now they're kind of bringing it into the 21st

century, and it keeps pulling and doesn't know

where it wants to go. It's basically... Gotham,

now that I've watched all of it, I do like some

of it, but the overall premise of before everything,

before this, before that, it's kind of like Cletus

from The Simpsons. The really, really whacked

-out, red -headed stepchild of Batman the Animated

Series. And Batman the Animated Series was so

much better. And they actually nailed the 1940s

stuff a lot better than this did. See, that's

the thing with Gotham. I never knew if they were

saying that it was in the present day, like the

21st century, or if they were actually trying

to tell us that, hey, this happens in, you know,

1960 -something. Because Bruce is a kid. Bruce

can't be a kid in today. The whole prequel thing

just boggles my mind. It really does. And Powers

and I talked about this in the pilot premiere

episode where... If Bruce is still a kid and

all the villains are the age that they are, then

they're going to be so much older than him. It's

something we're not going to get into here, but

it's just one of those ass -backwards things

that just doesn't make any dang sense at all.

Even after the first season. Yeah, I find that

this is sort of based on Elseworlds, which are

kind of like Marvel's What If scenarios. And

Elseworlds have kind of come and gone. So, again,

this is like another dimension. And that's how

I've broken up every single piece of DC. The

way the comic books went. You had the Golden

Age, and then you had the Silver Age, and then

the Bronze Age, and then the New 52. In social

media or whatever, with Batman the Animated Series,

I find that to be the Bruce -Tim... paul dini

universe for batman 66 it's the dozer and for

you know burton the burton the schumacher the

nolan verse i mean that that's how you have to

break it up and that's the problem so the only

thing i can think of is that each gotham that

we watch is in a different dimension Yeah, that's

just too freaky for me. All right, to set the

stage, in case anyone didn't know, this show

premiered last year on Fox. It is a one -hour

show. It has one season so far, and season two

has been greenlit. The first season has had 22

episodes. I don't have in front of me the number

of episodes picked up for season two, but I'm

sure it'll be along the same lines. And honestly,

episode numbers vary. as the show progresses

because i remember this varied originally this

was only supposed to be 17 episodes and then

they put it up to 22 and then they put it back

to 18 and they they did a whole flip -flop thing

with this thing because they weren't sure how

it was going to do and of course with all most

tv most broadcast television networks nowadays

it's like hey we'll give you this but if your

ratings don't do well by episode six you're screwed

and in some cases hey if we don't get like 10

to 20 million viewers on the first airing you're

done boom canceled over um so that's setting

the stage for gotham as far as the cast goes

uh you have uh ben mckenzie mr you know Welcome

to the OC bitch himself returning to Fox. You

have Donald Logue, who plays Harvey Bullock.

Ben McKenzie plays James Gordon. You have Robin

Lord Taylor as Penguin. You have Aaron Richards

as Barbara Keene. This is a sticking point for

me. Not the fact that Aaron Richards plays the

character, but the character herself. I listened

to a... Well, I... I listen to a series of podcasts.

It's called After Buzz TV. They do podcasts just

like we're doing, except they have, like, over

300 of them. And they do, like, it's this whole

thing created by Maria Menounos and all this

and all that and everything else. But they have

a podcast for almost every current TV show on

air. And they talk about it. And I listen to

the Gotham podcast with Ryan Hooks and Steve

Kaufman and Montse Bolanos and a few other people.

Sorry, I don't remember your answer off the top

of my head. But Ryan Hooks and Steve Kaufman

specifically on that show are like, ooh, Barbara

Keene, maybe she's going to eventually show up

as Batwoman or maybe she's going to be this or

maybe she's going to be that. And I'm like, guys,

she's never going to be Batwoman. Never. It's

not going to happen. I mean, unless they really

want to screw with our brains, because I've looked

at Barbara Keane's history in the comics, and

I've looked at the Batwoman character's history

in the comics, nary the two have ever met. I

don't believe so. You can correct me if I'm wrong

in saying that, but I'm pretty sure what I read

was right. Yeah, I mean, I've also subscribed

to After Buzz. I haven't listened to their Gotham

yet, but as for Barbara Keane... The only thing

– and I tried to write this to what I know of

her, and I know there was some confusion on one

of the reviews. But all I know about Barbara

Keene is that she was the first Mrs. James Gordon,

that they were married. And then somehow in the

comics either she dies or they get divorced because

Jim cheats on her or whatever the case may be.

Right, with Sarah Ellison or whatever. Yeah,

it's the whole Year One story. Yeah, that's all

I know about Barb, but she in the series is just

not... People have been taking out the torches

and pitchforks on this one. You got Bruce Wayne

being portrayed by David Mazuz. David Mazuz,

people may remember as the silent kid from Touch

on Fox. You got Sarah Essin. That's the character

name. Duh. You got Captain Sarah Essin. You got

Sean Pertwee as Alfred Pennyworth. You got Cameron

Becovoda? I don't know. You got Selina Kyle.

You got Edward Enigma, played by Corey Michael

Smith. You got Montoya, portrayed by Victoria

Cartanga. The actors, specifically Jim Gordon

and Harvey Bullock, I think Ben McKenzie and

Donald Logue have really outdone themselves.

I remember when I first heard about Gotham, I'm

like, Donald Logue, who the hell is Donald Logue?

And then as soon as I saw him in the Gotham...

original, like, trailers or promos that they

started playing, I started seeing him everywhere

else. He showed up on Law & Order Special Victims

Unit for, like, six -episode arc and this, that,

and the other thing. And just this past weekend,

I was watching FX or FXX or FXM or one of them

FX channels, and Just Like Heaven came on. And

I'm like, hey, wait a second. What's Harvey Bullock

doing acting with the Hulk? Because for those

that don't know, Just Like Heaven stars Mark

Ruffalo and Reese Witherspoon and Donald Logue.

So that was interesting. And that's one of the

craziest things. If I see an actor or an actress

on something new that I might enjoy and I'm watching

the show and I've never seen them before or I

don't know of them, immediately they start popping

up everywhere as soon as I watch the show. But

I really do think that Gordon and Bullock have

really, after the first 22 episodes, I really

think his characters, McKenzie and Logue, have

really gone all out. What do you think of the

two characters throughout, just in general, throughout

the season, from where they started to where

they are now? Well, Bullock, here's what's interesting

about Bullock, is that there is continuity. Bullock

in the 70s was like the Bullock we see now, which

is good. I think that's a smart thing. Mackenzie,

I like what they're doing with him as Gordon.

I think it's a lot smarter to see, was Gordon

always this Boy Scout? Did, you know, we know

that he is a war veteran. We know that his father

was a cop. We know he runs in the family. We

know he's a straight arrow. But we don't know,

other than Gordon, will eventually become commissioner

and talk to a man dressed as a bat. I like the

history of Bullock because we just know Bullock

from the animated series. We don't know anything

else about this character, and it got a little

confusing because I thought, well, this was the

guy that was in Batman 89, but that's a totally

different character. So I like... Yeah, no, that

was... Eckhart, yeah. Yeah, yeah, Eckhart. Eckhart

was... Eckhart was supposed to be a loose interpretation

of Bullock, I think. But obviously, you know,

they went a little too far with that, with making

his character completely bad, completely corrupt.

I like the idea, though, that Harvey apparently

made a rookie mistake and he's kind of being

blackmailed into becoming a corrupt cop. And

he can't do anything about it because... And

he's under the thumb of Commissioner Lowe, but

I guess Carmine Falcone because there are two

Dons running Gotham. So I like the fact that

why Bullock is always so gruff and angry. And

then, of course, Bullock is known for weighing,

you know, close to a ton if you remember the

Enemy 8 series. So I like the idea that we're

seeing him chowing down more. But he's – I don't

know if he does it out of frustration or he does

it because he's just – becoming a lazy cop because

he pretty much knows how corrupt Gotham is. I

didn't like him in the first four episodes. I

think towards the end of the first half of the

series, Donald Logan, he's always... I love him

in Just Like Heaven. He was on a Fox show called

Grounded for Life. Unfortunately... Yeah, the

only thing, I mean, the show took place in Staten

Island. I'm from Staten Island. Staten Island

never looked better if you've ever been there.

But the problem that I had with that show is

that it had a laugh track. So he's very funny.

All comedies have a laugh track. Yeah, but this

one really abused it. So the problem was is that

he's funny, but they don't know what to do with

him. And they put him in movies, and he just

has that face and that personality. I like how

he wasn't being the tough bulk that we know because

he's under so -and -so's thumb. So now that he's

evolved, I really like him towards the end of

the second half of the series. But Ben McKenzie,

he was always hard because I don't know what

he was trying to do. Was he trying to copy every

other Gordon that we've seen on TV? The accent

would kind of come and go. Was he trying to do

Chicago? Was he trying to do New York? I mean,

now we know that Gotham is supposed to be in

New York City, if I understand this, because

it's being shot in Brooklyn. So it was really

hard to pinpoint where this Gordon was going

to go. But yeah, I'm definitely impressed by

Mackenzie. See, I think this is a natural evolution

for Mackenzie as an actor, because he went from...

Like I already mentioned, he got his start on

Fox with The O .C. back in 2003. After that,

he then went for numerous seasons on a cop show

called Southland on TNT. And he was a street

cop. He was a beat cop. So I think this, even

though this is a specific DC Comics Warner Bros.

character in Jim Gordon, This really does set

him up. And I didn't really, I couldn't see any,

I couldn't hear any of the other versions of

Commissioner Gordon in Ben's performance. I really

dig it. I think it's a cool performance. It's

something a little different. So I like those

two characters. Bruce Wayne. I like Bruce. I

think Bruce, I think it's interesting to see

Bruce. at this age because he's just lost his

parents he needs some sort of guidance and actually

let's talk about bruce and alfred together considering

they're in most of the scenes with each other

but bruce i enjoy bruce i think is a little refreshing

i like seeing the young detective in bruce and

seeing how he's eventually going to become batman

the only origin that I really truly will ever

stick to is Mask of the Phantasm for adult Bruce

Wayne. I don't give a crap about Scott Snyder's

Zero Year. I don't particularly like how they

kind of glossed over it and gave you allusions

to it in Batman 89. You know, I mean, I think

it was a perfect setup in Batman 89, but Bruce

Wayne here and seeing him... in the moment, as

a child, seeing what will eventually happen.

I really do like that. The first ten episodes,

I hated. I hated Alfred. I hated Sean Pertwee

as Alfred. I remember the very first time it

happened, when the very first episode, second

episode, I don't know, it was the pilot episode.

When, instead of being a concerned father figure,

he took the more stern approach and basically

yelled at Bruce to get off the friggin' roof.

And it's like, seriously, you're just gonna sit

there and yell at the kid? I mean, I'm not asking

you to go up there and talk him down, but Jesus,

have a little bit more compassion. And through

the first ten episodes, Alfred just really...

I don't think it was until they did the whole

stand -up -for -yourself -at -school thing in

that episode where Alfred was teaching him to

box and whatever else. I don't think it was until

then that I actually started somewhat liking

Alfred, but those, at least the first six episodes,

I hated Alfred. I like Alfred in, I would say,

episode four or five, like you said, when he's

been with... The problem is that Alfred in the

pilot kind of knows what Gotham is all about.

And Alfred, we already know his history and why

he went from being a man of the world to a butler,

how he's grounded himself. I like that. What

I don't like is... Who is the quintessential

Alfred? Now, we could say it's from the animated

series. Other people disagree and say that it's

from the Burton universe. For me, I really dig

this Alfred. Sean Petrie, I think, really is

the Alfred for the 21st century. I think he should

be in the next movie. I like how he talks. I

love his mannerisms. I like how he fights. My

favorite part in the series is when he beats

the crap out of Butch. But the problem is that

we don't know how Alfred is just allowed to have

the custody of Bruce Wayne. It's like Bruce's

parents died and now Alfred is the guardian.

And nobody really says anything. That's a legal

thing. They probably had that in their will and

they didn't show us. With the way Gotham is set

up, they couldn't show us a will reading. They're

just not going to show us a boardroom will reading

of the Wayne's Wills. That's one thing I can

suspend for disbelief because... It's one of

those things where, okay, it makes sense. Alfred

is the only person he has now. And, I mean, after

all, the kid is loaded. You know, his parents

left him this vast fortune. So I don't think

anybody's going to ask any questions about who

Bruce Wayne's guardianship should go to. Well,

it's also interesting that apparently... Bruce

doesn't have any other family. It's never discussed.

It just seems to be Alfred and Bruce, and that's

it. No other relatives ever come in. But I think

the best moment is when Bruce decides that he's

going to go on this little camping trip on Wayne

Manor, and Alfred is like 10 steps behind somehow,

and they eventually build a campfire, and they

bond like father and son. Alfred really wants

to become... the surrogate father, which is great.

They're bonding in the chemistry. People have

complained about this. I love David Mezuz as

Bruce Wayne. I cannot wait for him to grow up

and be Batman in a movie someday. I think he

could do it. The problem is, is that to see young

Bruce Wayne, here's what I like about it. In

the first few episodes, I found this Bruce Wayne

to be very robotic. Like it's a 20 -year -old

and an 8 -year -old body for some reason. Like

in a few minutes he's screaming that his parents

are killed. And now it's like he's either suffering

– I know he's suffering from PTSD. I mean that's

already a given. But he goes back to a boarding

school and bullies – and he's like he's not getting

it. And I'm not too sure if he was always this

closed from the world. Or who he was really talking

to or who his real friends were. But it's weird

that after his parents are dead and you're dealing

with these border school kids who are taunting

him about whether or not Bruce saw their brains

or guts when they were shot. And they're beating

him up and then Bruce is allowed to go to their

house and beat the crap out of them. And Alfred

is just like showing them how to fight. There's

great chemistry when these two... are together

and even when they're separate and bruce has

to go to through gotham on his own and he's with

selena i just love the mannerisms and the line

reads that he gets but there are times i'm kind

of like whose story is this supposed to be so

i guess we'll get there when we get there I think

I like Bruce and Alfred best when Alfred offered

to finally help him figure out the mystery of

the whole Wayne Enterprises, Arkham, all that

stuff. That's really when I kind of came around

to Alfred. Next two we're going to talk about

in unison is Penguin and Riddler. Yes. Oh my

god. Riddler, I just want to throw out a fucking

window. I cannot stand that guy. What? Are you

kidding me? Okay, let me just interject in here

for a minute. I gotta ask you this, because I've

been writing this in my reviews. Do you think

that they took 50 % of Jervis Tetch from the

animated series? Because there are times that

I feel that he's stalking this woman named Kris

Kringle. And if he can't have her, he's going

to stalk her. And even in the season finale,

he starts to go like all Gollum. And I'm almost

waiting for him. Like, he has the roses in his

hand at one point. Like, he wants to ask her

out. And he's clutching on them, and he throws

them down. I remember in the animated series,

Jervis Tetch did that. And he's holding on to

the roses, and his hands are bleeding because

he's just upset he can't have this woman. I just

find him to be an annoying character. What? Like...

The way they are characterizing him, the way

that they are trying to slowly build him becoming

what he eventually will be, is just, it's like

somebody grinding teeth behind you in a movie

theater. It's, oh my god. His character progression,

even in a 22 episode first season, is slower

than the motherfucking tortoise against the hare.

Like, this guy isn't going to win a fucking race.

He just isn't in my book. And the whole thing

with his character about the riddles, the best

part about the whole riddle thing is every time

when Harvey and Gordon just say, no time, Ed,

just... give it to me straight or go away the

only time i actually cared about anything he

actually did is at the end of the season when

he wrote that note and we'll talk about that

later but when he wrote the note and the note

says what it says on the edges that's the but

other than that i can't stand the character i

just i just can't stand i don't know if it's

the actor or what the deal is with the way they're

trying to portray him but i i don't like him

at all Well, here's the thing, because I'm going

to defend Corey Michael Smith, and I understand

why people had a love -hate relationship, why

it was so creepy. In the pilot, it was like,

oh, Edward, you need to be in an asylum. You're

just weird. Edward Nygma was always socially

awkward. I mean, this was a character that was

born intelligent. He kept asking questions, and

people were just like, didn't want to be bothered

with him. So that's why he's in a class by himself.

I like the idea that he's in the GCPD, and I

love the idea that he's so awkward because he

is bookish, he loves challenges, he loves games,

but the problem is he never knows when to stop.

And then his only way to say... I'm smarter than

you. I'm going to give you the clues because

you're not getting it. I always love that about

the character. It's a lot better than what Jim

Carrey did, and he is going borderline psychotic,

and it took a long time. But I do appreciate

when he's on screen now how he's – eating chop

suey and he's eating under a microscope because

he's got to dissect every little thing to see

how everything works that's the character for

me and that he lives in this you know really

four room apartment where he's just listening

to quiz shows he's an interesting guy i just

don't think they knew what to do with him because

the writers seem to be Reading other comics or

watching Batman Forever, I really... See, I don't

see any of the... See, that's the thing. I don't

see any of the Jim Carrey Riddler in him at all.

I just... Like, this Riddler isn't funny. He

is more sadistic, psychotic, stalkerish Riddler.

He's not Jim... And don't get me wrong. I know

Jim Carrey Riddler was over the top and... and

you know not i know a lot of people didn't care

for it but i'd take jim carrey over this guy

any day as far as the character of the riddler

i take frank gorshin and i met him but the point

well yeah but i'm saying in the in the point

of reference that you gave with batman forever

so um i don't know riddler hopefully in season

two he gets better I just hope that they progress

his story faster. I don't want it to end right

away, but it's one of those things where at least

give two character development traits per episode

for this guy. Because as of right now, I don't

ever want to watch this show again if this guy

is going to continue to be on it. Alright, so

Penguin. Yay! Penguin's another one I was like,

oh, God, no. Just the whole waddling thing, the

whole... He's essentially, instead of making

him a common criminal or a common thief like

he's normally been, they've turned him into a

serial killer. So you have two major Batman villains.

One is a serial killer. One is a stalker. Okay.

I just have to say this about Robin Lord Taylor,

and I had a chance. Unfortunately, he was going

to be at WizardCon this year. Unfortunately,

something happened, but I got to see and meet

Ben McKenzie. But people – there were about five

people dressed as this new Penguin. Again, it's

75 years continuity. Penguin, take your pick

of his origins, but the point being is that –

Somehow the Cobblepots came from money, they

lost it, and Penguin is just trying to be the

gentleman's gentleman and try to gain his fortune

back. The problem is he's always socially awkward

because... his parents were neurotic or sometimes

they lack social skills. You know, it depends

on which universe and continuity the parents

come from. So Penguin is socially awkward because

either his mother was a hypochondriac and his

father apparently decided to take a walk one

day during a summer shower, got sick. And died

of pneumonia. So his mother forces him. To walk

around with an umbrella. Always. And he's short.

He's fat. But he loves to study birds. That's

Penguin. And Penguin just wanted to become a

criminal. Because he just wanted to fit in with

somebody. Because he couldn't fit in with society.

So he figures he'll fit in with the underworld.

That's what I love about this Penguin. And that's

what he's pretty much doing. But unfortunately.

And I'm not going to take anything away from

Carol Kane. The mother is alive in this universe.

The mother apparently comes from God knows where.

It's Carol Kane doing some sort of European accent.

And she doesn't know anything what Penguin is

doing. But the problem with Penguin is that there

are times he acts like Dr. Smith from Lost in

Space. And that's going to be a problem. And

he always seems to play somebody against the

other one. And he never seems to have a plan.

And he can become psychotic. He's not a serial

killer so much. He just seems to want to work

with whoever he can work with. He's a locust

more than a penguin. And as soon as he's done

with that person, he offs them, but he doesn't

really have so much of a plan. He wants to be

in charge because that's, you know, again, that's

penguin for you. I don't think he's as slick

as he should be. And the problem is... is that

we have seen him with the umbrella in this universe,

but there are times he's still using the gun.

And I'm waiting for him to put a weapon in the

umbrella. Until then, he's fun to watch. I kind

of like when people were calling him a penguin

in the beginning and he was killing them because,

you know, it's kind of like Marty McFly from

Back to the Future. But the problem is, is that,

I don't know, one day there was a bad makeup

job and he kind of looked like the great Gonzo.

and that's insulting to gonzo yeah well it's

that episode i think where they go to lobe's

parents and you know he looks too much like a

bird the problem is is that i want to root for

this guy i love the actor and i've always been

a fan of this character but you're right I don't

know what they want to do with him. There are

times that he's charming, and then there's times

he's cowardly, and then there are times he's

just psychotic. And they're going like three

different versions, and they're not really picking,

and by they I mean the writers, where they want

to go with this character. So, we're going to

talk about... Just three more quick characters,

then we're going to get into actual thoughts

on the overall season, and then spoilers for

the season finale. We've got to talk about Catwoman,

or Catgirl, I should say. I like her. I think

she's kind of fun. She's... I look at Selina

and Bruce in this as a two -sided coin. He's

heads, she's tails. He's somewhat dark right

now, but he still has some sort of hope and reason

of expectation. Whereas she is so far down the

rabbit hole, pun intended, that she has no real

optimism whatsoever when it comes to dealing

with life. And I really enjoyed her when she

was in scenes and stuff. I thought it was kind

of cool. You know what? Again, I know what this

character is about. I know that Bruce is going

to get his heart broken and then some until Talia

comes along. The problem I have with the young

Selina Kyle is that I've seen this character

before where it's the tough -talking, street

-wise kid, but it's in a Catwoman suit. I like

her at times. There's about two or three episodes

where she's fun to watch. We'll get into the

season finale. The only problem that I have with

this, you're right, is that there's yin and yang.

I don't know where they're really going to go

with the relationship. I mean, I think the best

episode where they were at that Gotham charity

ball, and it was a reference, I think, to Batman

Returns. At least that's what a lot of people

on the net a few years, a few years. That's what

people a few days later on the net were saying.

Oh, you know, this is right out of Batman Returns

where they're at the costume ball. The only problem

that I have with the Selina Kyle is that I'll

give her the second episode that she was in.

I'll give her the episode where she was at Wayne

Manor as a safe house and then she and Bruce

had to leave and go to downtown Gotham and escape.

And I'll even give her the next to last episode

that she was in with the situation between her,

Bruce, and Reggie. I'm not hating the character,

but we're going to get to, you know, in a few

minutes. The final two we have to talk about.

Well, the final three I should say. I should

have said this because I didn't bring up the

other one. Final two big ones I want to mention

are how we feel about the translation of Falcone

and Moroni. And then we also have to talk about

Fish Face. Oh, I'm sorry. Fish Mooney. Yes. Okay,

so. Carmine Falcone and Sal Maroney, do you feel

that these actors have done the characters justice?

You know, here's the thing. I'm familiar with

Maroney because he's the guy who would, you know,

throw the acid in Harvey Dent's face. The problem

is that David Zsasz was so boisterous in this

series and so over the top that I knew that he

was going to do or say – he started to become

Scarface, Al Pacino Scarface. And in the first

couple episodes, I hated the guy. He was annoying.

I couldn't wait for him to get off the – and

then I think by the second half of the season

where the bomb goes off and he's in the GCPD.

and he's laughing with the corrupt cops, I'm

really starting to appreciate this guy. He could

be loud and boisterous and intimidating at the

same time. And I knew that one or two things

were going to happen. He was going to be killed

by Penguin, no doubt. But the problem was they

were prolonging the death, and I figured, okay,

by season four or five, it's going to happen.

There's a great... moment i think between him

and penguin where they're up in a cabin with

you know doing the i got a secret game and it

was a great scene the problem is is that i did

not well again we'll get to the finale but do

i think he was a great character actor yeah david's

i think it's david's ass um he was awesome by

the second half and I think it's going to be

interesting who's going to, you know, come along.

But as for John Dolman as Carmine Falcone, I

have three problems with this. I like how he

was pretending to be a senile old man, like he

couldn't handle being the Don anymore. He kind

of, he's seasoned. He kind of knows that change

is coming. He kind of knows that I'm Megatron.

And Penguin is Starscream. He's not as stupid

as Moroni is. So when Carmine knows that somebody

is going to try to usurper him, he pretends to

be this docile, sweet old man. The problem is

that... There's a moment where we have that mole

come in, I think Liza, and he wants to protect

her. And he's like, OK, I'm going to leave Gotham

like you're going to leave Gotham over this woman

that you don't know too much about. And then

as soon as Penguin says something, you know,

Carmine doesn't want to believe it. But he's

starting to realize that somebody is going to

take him down. I thought he was going to get

stronger and he acted like he was getting stronger

and he kept playing two sides of a coin and being

really manipulative on whether or not he could

still or wanted to control Gotham. And he could

do it and he was the guy you were really going

to support because I'm like, oh, he's not as

senile as you think. He's not as soft as you

think. He's just pretending to do that. So when

you think, you know. It's time to take the lion

and throw him out into the field. You know, weave

him and I'll take over the pride. No. Falcone

still has claws. Then, again, we're going to

get to that finale. I was really disappointed

with what happened. But Fish Moody, I've said

this offline. I thought this was Eartha Kitt.

I thought that once she adopted Selina. or whatever

the case may be. It was going to be Tiny Toon

Adventures. Again, the problem with Fish is that

she really was the worst lieutenant. She was

a Starscream Starscream. She was somebody that

wanted to take over, and then all of a sudden

she goes, you know what? I still have respect

for Carmine Falcone. We're not going to kill

him. We're just going to force him to leave Gotham

and never come back. I'm like, what? What? And

then it's like she doesn't kill him, but then

he comes out of nowhere and sends her to somewhere

in Europe with the doll maker. And then when

she's with the doll maker, she's still trying

to control the inmates and the doll maker. And

she still thinks she has the upper hand. She

just happens. to make up everything as she goes

along because she comes from the streets and

she thinks that her street smarts are gonna is

gonna save her ass and that's when i started

to lose interest and then is when she said on

regis and michael whatever that show was oh i'm

not gonna be fish mooney i only signed on for

a year i thought that was just like okay i want

the fans to shut up you don't care about the

character but something interesting is gonna

happen so maybe if i say this Everybody will

just leave the character alone. No, and we'll

get there. Yeah, let's go ahead and get to jumping

or not jumping the shark here. As the season

progressed, it's more so the time breaks that

really screw me up on shows. Like, okay, the

holidays I understand. But, like, let me see

here. Let's see. The show started September 22nd

last year. They took a break in November 24th

to January 5th. So that's standard. I get that.

That's fine. They then took another break March

2nd to April 13th. They took a month off, essentially,

between episode 18 and 19. Why? If your show

is going strong, if the ratings are strong, the

viewers are strong, why do you need it? And I

know I'm probably going to answer my own question

here and say, oh, well, it's because of the...

March Madness. Well, I was going to say it's

because of May Sweeps. May TV Sweeps. And no,

it wasn't March Madness because March Madness

was all on NBC and all that crap. That really

had no consequence. It's just one of those things

where that's really what trips me up on TV. It's

not just this show, it's any TV show. As I was

going through the season, there are certain episodes

I like, certain episodes I didn't like, certain

episodes I came away with satisfying feelings

about them, and then certain episodes where it's

like, oh my god, they really did that. One of

the ones that I really did enjoy was how they

brought in in Episode 9, they brought in Harvey

Dent and they kind of teased him up a little

bit. That's one thing. With Sal Maroney gone

now, spoilers everybody, Sal Maroney now gone,

I'm wondering if they're going to bring in Harvey

more and we're going to see his transformation

in Season 2 into Two -Face. That would be interesting,

to have Penguin, Two -Face, and Riddler. So that's

what I thought. I thought, well, season two,

that's when they were going to bring in Harvey

Dent. That was the other problem I have with

the series as well, and we haven't even talked

about Harvey or all the other minor characters

that have kind of come and gone. What happened

to Harvey? He kind of – there was an entire episode

dedicated to him, and he was hardly in it, and

then he disappears, and he comes back again,

and he disappears. I mean, here's the only problem

I have, is that they seem to be dump trucking

all the characters now. As for jumping the shark,

I could tell you right now when they jumped the

shark, and I thought it was an interesting idea,

and then they just didn't know what to do with

it, where the whole electrocutioner storyline,

where Jim, well, Jim... came very close to bringing

down Mayor McSweaty, Richard Kind, who we haven't

seen in God knows how long, I think since November.

And what happened is that Jim and Harvey had

all this evidence to bring down the mayor and

Falcone, and what happened? Barbara Gordon apparently

disappeared and she felt concerned that she comes

back and everything got ruined. And, you know,

again, Gordon got demoted to being security guard

at Arkham for like maybe two episodes. Now, it

jumped the shark for me because at one point

I'm like, okay, Gordon working at Arkham works

because on one hand, he'll get to understand

Gotham's... criminally elite in the not too distant

future i get what they're trying to do with this

the problem was is that we kind of have this

montage and i feel and i wrote this in one of

my reviews that people don't understand that

if you're going to pretend to be mentally ill

you can't just put on a lab coat frizz your hair

and start talking to yourself and howling at

the moon when i had to do that for a production

of cuckoo's nest director looked at me and said

well why are you mentally ill what's your mental

status i was like i had to race to the library

get a book of mental illnesses and come back

and say this is what my character and what's

all about so i have problems when you have this

giant guy holding a baby doll and ready to tear

jim's head off and there's really we could have

learned a lot about arkham because apparently

it was docile for a century or two it's being

reopened and we really could have gotten something

out of it and there's an inmate that dresses

up like a staff member and this is something

else that pisses me off about the show is that

characters that are getting built up could die

very easily in this series within the last five

minutes of the episode. It's almost like something

out of the Naked Gun movies where you think the

villain's going to survive, and two minutes later,

a man -eating lion comes and kills you. That's

a problem that I had when Gordon was a security

guard at Arkham because he was really starting

to learn about these inmates. The only thing

he brought back with him was Leslie Tompkins,

and now he's dating Leslie. Which is okay. I

think they have better chemistry. But the problem

is that something that was being built up and

also I kind of wonder how the Waynes had something

to do with the asylum because there was something

to do with a real estate deal that had a deal

with Arkham being closed and being reopened.

It had something to do with Thomas and Martha

and all that kind of like has now fallen flat

other than for two episodes, Gordon is going

to be a security guard and that's it. And then

all of a sudden he's a cop again. Yeah. I hope

that in season two that they will go ahead and

address the whole Arkham thing and the whole,

the whole Wayne storyline. I want season two

to, instead of being this like villain of the

week, like it's, you know, spirit of the goat

and. balloon man and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Like I want this show to be two parters. I want

this show to be stuff like the fearsome Dr. Crane

in episode 14 and then the scarecrow in episode

15 or, you know, the blind fortune teller in

episode 16 and the red hood in episode 17. So,

you know, I like, I want it to be that I don't

necessarily want it to slowly focus on like,

All the episodes I just mentioned, they pretty

much, all four of them, two are Scarecrow, one

is Joker, one is the Red Hood Gang. You know,

all classic Batman stuff, but I want the show

to tell more consistent stories. I don't want

there to be a villain of the week. This show

does not need a villain of the week. You've got

75 fucking years of continuity to pull from.

You don't need to introduce fucking Egghead or

King Tut or somebody like that in a Villain of

the Week story. That's what Batman 66 is for.

That's really how I feel about the evolution

of Gotham. I mean, I like the Joker -like episode.

I thought that was kind of cool and fun. It was

an interesting way to show a young Joker. Do

I think that's ever going to show up again? Probably

not. Not in that same incarnation. But I thought

that was kind of cool. Scarecrow, I've never

been a fan of Scarecrow, so I can either take

that or leave it. With the series finale, they

were rushing. They had to have been rushing to

tie every little thing up because there's so

many bows tied on the... on the season one finale.

Um, okay. So I am going to read this. I don't

want anybody to get mad, but I am going to read

this just so, you know, I, you know, I'm, I'm

clear here. So episode 22, all heavy families

are alike. The mob war between Falcone and Maroney

escalates. Barbara, following Ogre's death, undergoes

trauma counseling with Leslie. When Falcone is

hospitalized during an ambush, Oswald, Cobblepot,

and Butch arrive to kill him with a plan to take

his place, only to be stopped by James Gordon

with Bullock's help. So it goes on and on and

on from there. The whole Ogre thing, I like the

guy playing the character of the Ogre, but...

That was just some weird storytelling. That was

some weird way for them to bring Barbara back

into the story, because until that point, she

hadn't really been anywhere. Well, here's the

thing, and people were asking about this as well.

They were asking about the apartment, the loft

that she was in. It was just one of these things

that you could come and go. There was a moment

where Barbara and Selena and Ivy, you remember

her? you know, Ivy Pepper. They were all in this

loft. And it's from the comic Gotham City Sirens

where the three, you know, Gotham Rogues are

together and they're forming a gang. I thought

that Barbara was going to start to become a variation

of Harley Quinn because she's starting to say,

like, you know, use your body as a weapon. Barbara

comes back because she's damaged. Yeah, I know

how eventually she meets up with the Ogre, but

I thought maybe... two things were going to happen.

That Jim Gordon was going to have his Joker.

Before Batman has a Joker, Gordon would have

one. That would make sense. Because before Batman,

there's Gordon, and Gordon should have a Joker.

It would only make more sense on how he relates

with Batman. But the problem is that... Ogre

dies at the end of this episode, before the season

finale, which makes zero sense. Barbara is suffering

from trauma. She takes Leslie back to the apartment.

They have this monologue. And of course, as we

know from the next to last episode, the ogre

apparently killed Barbara's parents, but she

claims that she's the one who did it. Yeah, she

claims that she did it. I'm watching the episode.

I'm seeing... that the ogre takes a step and

it looks like he's killing them with a knife.

But we do know that Barbara and her parents,

you know, they don't really seem to have any

love. And the thing with Barbara is, is that

anyone who tries to get close to her, like whether

it be Montoya or Gordon or her parents, she gets

heartbroken. The problem when she starts to go

insane and tries to kill Leslie with a knife...

I'm sorry. I was laughing. At one point I thought,

okay, if it's Harley Quinn, I'm okay. But to

see this woman in a short skirt and barefooted

trying to kill Leslie and then Leslie somehow

gains her inner strength and bashes Barbara's

head in, I'm kind of like, what? And then before

that, the episode before that, all of a sudden

we get something out of the way where... Barbara

has been saved from the ogre, but we don't know

what happened to Barbara. Was she going to go

into Arkham? Was she in the hospital? No, this

week, oh, she's just talking to Leslie Tompkins

and everything's okay, but Leslie insists that

she needs trauma counseling, and Barbara's like,

well, I just want to talk to you. And Leslie,

I'm sorry. She's a trained psychiatrist. She

knows there was a relationship between her and

Gordon, and that she's still willing to take

somebody who was... being kidnapped and tortured

by the ogre and she's way out of her league with

with what's going on with barbara at least so

she's hinting and she's still willing to take

her back to the apartment and talk to her not

realize that barbara is going to try to murder

her this is piss poor storytelling as far as

i'm concerned fish mooney who we thought was

shot when she was leaving the doll makers island

comes back with a mohawk She recruits Selina

Kyle, which is – they don't even talk. She just

shows up on a boat like Captain Jack Sparrow,

and she's just going to – I guess this is supposed

to be like a 1966 Bat Trap where you have Commissioner

– I'm sorry, not Commissioner. You have Gordon

Bullock and I guess Penguin at one point, Falcone,

and – oh, yeah, and we didn't even get to that

part too where Penguin was going to kill Falcone.

Everything just got so... I thought there was

going to be a mob war between Falcone, Penguin,

and Moroni. That never happened. Penguin keeps

saying a war was going to come. We saw previews

of the so -called war. No, it was just... Penguin

decided to play one Don against the other and

then going to kill a Don and then commission

a lobe. We barely talked about him. He's corrupt.

He's barely... That's the thing. In the very

beginning of the series, they set it up where...

Gordon has to make this choice to be, you know,

not on Carmine's hit list or whatever. And, you

know, it looks like Gordon makes the right choice,

even though we as the viewers know he didn't

shoot Penguin. He just looks like he shot him.

But, like, Commissioner Loeb should have been

all over this. Like, we should have met Commissioner

Loeb the end of the very first episode of the

series so we could see him be a thread. a threaded

storyline throughout the first season. They brought

him in, like, they mentioned like five episodes

in a row. Oh my God, oh my God, nobody crosses

GCPD. There's too many corrupt people at the

top. Too many corrupt people at the top. Then

they bring him in, bring him in, bring him in.

And he does, I like the actor. I like the, you

know, how the actor portrayed the role. when

he was on screen, but he's essentially inconsequential

to anything that has friggin' happened in season

one. I don't know who's more of a useless character,

Commissioner Loeb or Richard friggin' Kind as

the mayor. Oh, they're both useless. And, you

know, the thing is that we know that either in

the video game or in the Nolanverse, they're

going to be taken out. they're just puppets as

far as I'm concerned. They're just props. There's

such a non -entity I don't care other than I

hate them both. I don't have anything against

the actors, but these characters are absolutely

useless other than the fact that they're corrupt

because everybody seems to be under Moroni's

thumb or under Falcone's thumb. And if Falcone

would have stayed... he could have fixed everything.

We know Batman's going to do that in a few years,

but until Batman shows up, Gotham is going to

be more fluster -clucked than it already is.

The second thing is that Moroni starts calling

Fish Mooney babes. She can't stand it. We know

that Falcone is a little bit more controlled.

Moroni is not. So what happens, it's Fish...

that blows Moroni's brains out, which is so disappointing

because we figured it's got to be Penguin because

it's building up to Penguin. No, it's going to

be Fish because Moroni can't stop sexually harassing

Fish. And then everybody apparently has got a

gun. Penguin comes out of nowhere with a gun,

just starts shooting people for the sake of shooting

people. And then... And I have even gotten to

this part because I got another idiotic question.

Where is Victor Zaz through all this, who apparently

was working with Falcone, and he's the one who

apparently mind -controlled or whatever to Butch,

which was Fish Marooney's right -hand person.

They're on the rooftop, and we have this classic,

shoot him, he's the evil one. No, shoot him,

he's the good one. No, Butch shoots both of these...

both Penguin and Fish in the arm on top of a

building, and then apparently Penguin is able

to push Fish off the top of this building like

Batman 66. She falls in the water, and as I said,

Moroni is dead. Fish could be whatever, and Penguin

is... No, Fish is dead. Fish is dead. The only

reason why I know Fish is dead is because, you

know, Mrs. Will Smith said... She was only going

to be on the show for one season. Well, yeah,

she also... For the first season. So she said

she was leaving after that. She said she may

come back. But, you know, that's the only reason

why I know Fish Mooney is currently deader than

dead. Is that Jada Pinkett Smith is not going

to come back for the second season. And I personally

don't think they'll recast her. If they pull

a last man standing and recast the role... That's

just going to make Gotham even worse than a lot

of people already think it is. Yeah, I've heard

different things about what's – because she fell

in the water and this is kind of like something

like Batman 66 with Catwoman that fell from a

tall building into the water and she emerges.

But again, I don't know. All I know is that Penguin

now is on top of the building. He does the –

I'm the king of Gotham and all of a sudden Falcone

says – You know what? I'm going to retire. And

I'm kind of like after everything that happens

because one person tries to usurper your side

of Gotham, you don't want to be – and I thought

it's another mind fuck. No, it's not. He really

is going to – so I'm thinking to myself, well,

there's Daggett. There's Thorne. There's I guess

maybe Scarface. I mean is that what's going to

happen now? I don't – I don't know either. I

mean, this is where it got so bizarre. And then,

of course, we didn't even talk. Again, there's

so much to talk about. We don't know what's going

to happen with Selina Kyle because she stabbed

Jim in the back. Now, this is nothing new. We

know that she doesn't take sides because Catwoman

is kind of like she does whatever she can to

survive. But apparently now. She has taken a

side. We don't know what's going to happen with

her because she was working with fish and she

kind of disappears. But the biggest question

that I have now is that Bruce found the Batcave.

So you're telling me that Thomas created the

Batcave, which again, I talked about this in

the greatest Batman stories ever told volume

one. And I've said this a million times. Thomas

dressed up. As a bat for a costume party, was

kidnapped by mobsters, was forced to remove a

bolt from a mafia boss. And then he knew that

the mafia boss was going to kill him. Thomas

somehow escapes. The mafia boss hires Joe Chill

to mug the Waynes and make it look like a mugging.

And of course, eventually Batman pins everything

together. I've talked about that. The problem

is, is that throughout all of this. When did

Thomas put together the Batcave? I think it's

one of those things where, first of all, they

barely talk about Thomas and Martha after they're

dead. They barely investigate the thing. They

have so many other storylines going on. They

don't even focus on it. And they try to tie this

up in the last episode. In the last episode,

we met Lucius Fox. And Lucius says all this stuff

to Bruce about, you know, your father this, your

father that. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad. I

like that they introduced Lucius Fox. I still

wish it was Morgan Freeman, but whatever. The

whole thing with the Batcave is, the way I see

it is, if you look at Mask of the Phantasm, and

obviously we have, if you look at Mask of the

Phantasm, or even if, you know, take it with

a grain of salt, if you look at Batman Forever

and how Bruce originally discovered the cave,

he fell down a hole. In Mask of the Phantasm,

he was actually spelunking. down the hole because

Alfred was like, do you need more? Do you need

this? Do you need that? And he's like, Oh, we,

you know, it's a bigger than we originally thought.

So obviously they're not going to have David

Mizzou's or whatever his last name is. They're

not going to have the kid fall down the fucking

hole to find the fucking bad cave. They're going

to find some sort of cliffhanger way to And incorporated

in, you know, basically the biggest, I can't

even try to do this with my own eyeball, but

the biggest fan wank you could ever imagine.

That's what they did here. Is, oh hey, guess

what? This is your daddy's secret. And your daddy

on Earth 5154 was Batman or whatever. I don't

know. The only thing I can think of is that it's

not... They didn't want to have the kid fall

down a hole to discover the Batcave. And they

had to do something with the Thomas storyline.

Because they did nothing with it the entire season.

The Waynes got killed. Oh my god, there's this

huge conspiracy with Wayne Enterprises and Arkham.

Oh my god, there's this, this, this, and this,

and this. And none of it ever connected to anything

because they never focused on it. They had too

much of the crap going on. They had too much

crap with Fish Mooney and all that. You know...

And then all of a sudden in the season finale,

they want to leave us just hanging off that cliff

and be like, hey, here's the cave. See you next

year, everybody. So I don't know. I honestly

don't know. You have any other thoughts on the

series? I keep wanting to say a series finale

because, honestly, secretly, now I really want

the show to be done. But do you have any other

thoughts on the season one finale before we take

a quick break? No, I'm done with it. I mean,

I'll probably watch season two, but I'm just

like, it's okay when some of the characters can

play off of each other, but everything is like,

we'll make everything up as we go along. All

right. We're going to take a quick break, come

back with final thoughts, ratings, all that good

stuff and exit stage left after this. Brave new

world that has such putzes in it. You know, kids,

a lot has changed while your old uncle Joker

has been away. New Gotham, new rules, even a

new Batman. It isn't 65 years in the future,

but Legends of the Dark Knight has gone beyond.

Batman Beyond, that is. Ah, the new boy. Ears

are too long and I miss the cape, but not too

shabby. Not too shabby at all. Join Steve and

Mike as they delve into the remaining episodes

of the podcast where they'll cover Batman Beyond,

products, games, and more. Check it out only

on pcastradio .com. along with Wyatt Jones, the

Puce Gargantua. And we are Wild Stallions. No,

we're Hunnic Outcasts. We're going to cover everything

from kaiju to comics to TV to video games. You

name it, we'll cover it. And you never know where

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Finally, a podcast that will never be questioned.

All right, folks. We are going to exit stage

left and give you our final thoughts on Gotham

Season 1. And also give the rating on the GCR

and Universal Rating System scale 0 to 5 stars.

For me, final thoughts, Gotham is hit or miss

at best. You can watch one episode and enjoy

it. You can watch the next episode and really

hate it. I think the continuity of the show is

all disjointed. The storylines, they... If you're

going to sit here and use your season one finale

to tie up everything and then tease one big thing

for the next season, do a better job of it. I

don't know. There's certain things I liked about

Gotham, and then there are other things that

just... I've got to give it a three. I can't

give it any more or less than that. I've got

to give it a three out of five stars. What are

your final thoughts, Jeremy? I'm giving this

a two and a half. I'm going down the middle.

I'm going to give it a few episodes. I'm going

to give Penguin's Umbrella, Selina Kyle, The

Red Hood, definitely the Scarecrow episodes.

And ironically, Jonathan's father, of course,

was in the movie Arachnophobia, where he's in

a movie about the fear of spiders, which I thought

was really cool. But everything else, I want

to give it a higher rating, but the problem is

it goes back to... writing because everything

keeps being made up as it goes along and nobody

seems to know what they're doing and it's like

they're so dependent on the comics and the movies

that they don't really seem to understand the

point of a prequel and even with any prequel

you're introducing characters that we don't really

care about because it's hard to try to bring

them in in 75 years of continuity if you needed

to bring characters in you have so many unfortunately

I'm reviewing this on a professional level, and

I'm saying there's hope, but the writing flat

out sucks. It's only about maybe four or five

characters that can play off each other to help

save this series, but I don't think I'm going

to buy it on DVD. I don't know if I want to listen

to the audio commentary. Yeah, I don't think

I'll be buying this one. I don't think I'll be

buying this season on DVD. I just don't. It's

just not... I don't mind watching it on TV and

all that stuff, but no. I just don't think Gotham

really hit what it wanted to hit. Yeah. I think

what it wanted to do was to find a way to get

the Batman mythos back on television without

actually saying, hey. Here's Affleck, because

after all, that other movie isn't going to come

out for another fucking year. Anyway, that's

a whole other discussion for another podcast

entirely. Well, I'm going to be on that. I don't

even know if I'm going to be covering it. I don't

even know if I'm going to be watching the damn

thing. Anyway, it's one of those things where

Gotham, as I said before, My final thoughts on

it are pretty much it's a giant fan wank with

little to no story. Yeah. I think we could talk

about it to death. Folks, Gotham is Mad Libs.

It's Little Gotham. It's just unfortunately...

You have to tighten the writing, and you just

can't dump truck every single character. The

animated series gave these characters time to

breathe, and they treated it like a radio drama,

and they realized which character. And the other

thing is, stop killing off every new flavor of

the week type of character. Have them come back.

If you don't want them to come back, the Blue

Man, okay. There had to be an early psychotic.

You are not getting it. And unfortunately, if

you don't stop killing these important people

off or people that could work, then this is just

going to be you don't care about character development.

And you're just insulting my intelligence. And

when I'm done watching Gotham, instead of taking

a hot shower, I'll watch Batman 66 or watch the

animated series. That's what I'm doing. That's

not a good sign. Yeah, no, that's not a good

sign at all. All right, folks, that's going to

do it for us here on Remote Control. This is

our first Finishing Finales episode. Coming up

next, we've got a few other Finishing Finales.

There's a lot of TV shows that we covered in

the pilot premiere season of Remote Control that

didn't quite make the cut. So I think we're only

going to, I think we had six or seven pilot premieres.

We're only going to have four finishing finales

episodes. Then we're going to have a couple season

passes, and then we're going to start the actual

podcast later on this summer. We hope you enjoyed

the latest episode of Remote Control and wish

you'll join us next time. For now, I am TFG1

Mike with... On a Galcast. Tune in next time

when we all be fighting over the remote control.

Thank you for tuning into Remote Control. There

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