43 – SUMMER OF SUPERHEROES – THE FLASH S1 – ARROW S3

Hi, this is Brian Ward and Dr. Andrea Letemendy

from the Arkham Sessions, and you are listening

to the Geekcast Radio Network. Thanks for tuning

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Radio Network. I'm your announcer Optimus Solo,

and on today's episode, join TFG1 Mike and the

rest of the RC crew. as they talk TV in the modern

era. That's right, for TV talk all the time,

stop channel surfing and let us take over your

remote control. Everything's okay, man. You're

at Star Labs. Star Labs. Who are you? I'm Cisco

Ramone. She's Caitlin, Dr. Snow. I need you to

urinate in this. Not this second. What is happening?

What is going on? You were struck by lightning,

dude. Lightning. gave me abs hello and welcome

to remote control this is episode 43 continuing

on in our summer of superheroes here on remote

control from the cast radio network i'm of course

tfg and mike joining me is my counterpart trying

to be djv from simplistic reviews hello sir my

name is dj valentine and i'm the silliest podcaster

alive hi how you doing hi how you doing Yeah,

for a second there, I was going to have to threaten

you with sending Howard after you if you didn't

get on this episode. I don't mean the good Howard,

either. I mean the bad Howard. Always the bad

Howard. Always the bad Howard. Oh, God. We are

continuing on here, as I said. This week, we've

got The Flash Season 1 and Arrow Season 3. Basically,

Arrow Season 3 is, fuck Arrow, I'm Batman. It's

essentially what it is. This is when it was blatantly,

I'm Batman. Oh, yeah. Originally, we were going

to do it the opposite way. Arrow Season 3, Flash

Season 1. And then I remembered, Flash is on

Tuesdays. Which means that whatever crossover

they started doing once they premiered Flash

in 2014, the first episode would be on a Tuesday

because Arrow was on a Wednesday. And this last

season, it was like Supergirl was on Monday,

Flash was still on Tuesday, but Arrow was on

Thursday. And I'm like, what the hell kind of

stupid crap is that? You got to make room for

the 100 or whatever the hell show they have on

CW. No. That's not in the DCEU. I think stupid

unnatural and... River Fail. River Fail. Where's

Jane the Virgin and the rest of them? I think

that's on Mondays before Supergirl, or at least

it was at the first one. I don't know. Flash

Season 1. Right before I realized this whole

crossover thing, I got to the eighth episode

of Season 3 of Arrow, which is the second half

of the crossover. And I'm like, ooh, wait, I

need to go back. So I basically stopped Arrow

and I watched the first 17 out of 23 episodes

of Flash immediately because Flash is so much

easier to watch than Arrow was in the beginning.

I mean, I know Flash does get darker at times

as we will be going along. However, that first

season, oh my God, it was a breast of fresh air.

It's very Creature of the Week, but it's like

Fun Creature of the Week. It's like, okay. And

it comes to The Flash. There have been two castings,

the DCEU, DCEU, DC Universe, whatever you want

to call it, that I was vehemently against that

I had to eat my head on because I was wrong.

One is Gal Gadot. I'm legally obligated to always

say I was wrong about Gal Gadot. The one... bright

light of the films. And the other on the TV side

is Grant Gustin, because going in, I've had many

arguments with my friends when this before, when

they announced, you know, Grant Gustin is going

to be Barry Allen. And I was like, uh, maybe

this probably was because he was on glee. Cause

that's the only thing I think he had as a, as

a major credit. And I'm not a huge, you know,

sing along TV show fan, but, uh, during the backdoor

pilot episode on arrow, I still wasn't convinced,

but this show, especially from the first episode,

And as it's gone on, Grant Gustin has proved

me wrong over and over and over again. And he's

essentially the best live action Barry Allen,

arguably. Some people were pissed, even more

so about... Well, I remember when they were going

to do the Justice League thing and they were

saying, oh, we're going to make the TV separate

from the movies. And they were like, well, we

want Stephen DeMille, Green Arrow. But at least

they could say, well, Green Arrow is not a part

of the team. Flash is a part of the team. And

everybody wanted Grant Gustin to be that. And

at least if you're going to use Ezra Miller,

you could have used a different Flash, like a

Wally West or whatever, Jay Garrick, whatever.

But everybody. I don't know many who go Ezra

over Grant. I don't know many. I haven't even

seen Justice League yet. I have not. I'm so far

behind on films. Like I saw. Infinity War, before

I saw... I haven't even seen Black Panther yet.

I haven't seen whatever came before Infinity

War. Those first, like, Doctor Strange, Black

Panther, and there was one other film that came...

Probably Thor Ragnarok, I'm assuming. Yep, that's

it. Those three. Doctor Strange, Thor Ragnarok,

and Black Panther. I have not seen any of those,

and I was still able to follow along with Avengers

Infinity War. I have not... past the bs that

was bvs i have not seen any dc films right one

of them is worth your time one of them is worth

your time yes i understand that and i'm willing

to go into that and i do want to see all these

things eventually but like i'm more interested

in dc tv than i am in the crappy movies that

they have i'm sorry i'll say this right now i

do not care i fully believe this batman and robin

had a better plot throughout the movie than the

BS that was BVS. You're not going to hear me

argue. If you're looking for an argument, you're

not going to get one from me. We did the ultimate

cut commentary on simplistic reviews on the BVS,

and it almost killed us, goddammit. Almost killed

us. Martha is the safe word. You don't want to

go down that road, but no. I guess the larger

point is that it's funny how... Stephen Amell

and Grant Gustin have essentially embodied these

characters, one being a fringe character, one

now have two iterations of the same character,

better than the movies. It's this idea I would

have never thought. And like I said, I was against

Grant Gustin because I didn't know who the hell

he was. I was like, Barry Allen? No, this isn't

Barry Allen. I just don't see it. And probably

around the midway point of the pilot episode,

again, when he's... yelling at Harrison Wells

and the team about the, uh, which was like, that's

bad. That's very Barry Allen of him. Whereas

like, nobody listens to him. Nobody's believing

him. He's like, you know what I'll do with my

damn self. F all this. Screw all this. I'm out.

I was like, that's Barry Allen. He's not going

to sit by. He didn't do the right thing. And

I mean, I think, uh, Chris Evans kind of nailed

that with captain America where, you know, he's

gonna do the right thing. He's very just, it

may not, it may be against, you know, what people

were keeping. pushing him to go this way but

throughout this series barry essentially does

not have that uh modus operandi he's not he's

a very you know unselfish i'm gonna do what's

best to save everyone i'm not gonna give up toward

a person i like it i think grant gots to nail

that so you mentioned this and i i i knew of

this but i didn't actually see any of it you

mentioned grant comes from glee like you I was

not a Gleek. The last time I heard the name Gleek

was, you know, the Wonder Twins, Activate. Like,

that's the last time I knew of what a hell a

Gleek was. So, like, I knew of Glee. I had zero

interest because I'm not really that much into

musicals, dot, dot, dot. I don't really care.

However. As these shows have gone along and Barry

has sung several times, he actually sings in

the first season here, which I will play later

in this podcast. Because Caitlin's just like,

huh? We'll talk about that. Yeah, exactly. She

has a shaggy Scooby moment. We'll talk about

that a little bit later. after I think the first

or second season of flash. And after I saw him

sing on the show, I'm like, okay, well, you know,

I don't really care about Glee. I don't care

about the show, but I like his voice. I like

the fact that, Hey, it's the flash singing. I

went and I found the smooth criminal song from

Glee. Oh, Michael Jackson. No, no, I'm telling

you what I'm telling you. They kill it. They,

they, they, they, yes, I know it's a Michael

Jackson song. Yes, I know. No one should be touching

the King of Pop. Sacrilege. The only, I just

said, I said no one should be touching the King

of Pop. But see, here's the thing. The only other

version of this song I've heard. Alien Ant Farm?

Exactly. That's the only other version. So I'm

like, okay, but it's the Flash up against some

chick. And they're doing this duet. And the coolest

thing about this. The only reason why I will

defend my enjoyment of this quote unquote song

is because it turned me on to two musicians,

two cellos, the cello guys. These are actually,

these guys are their band. The band that they

have is called two cellos and it's just them

on cellos and they do renditions of all kinds

of music. Just Smooth Criminal on the cello.

That's all it is. I will send you this video

later and you will watch it because it's just

a flash. It's only because it's a flash. Save

me. Hold my eyelids open. I must watch the Grant

Gustin Smooth Criminal. It's not. It's very well

done. Is all I'm saying. Am I saying you have

to watch every single thing ever from Glee? Oh,

no, no. I know one thing. I'm in the minority

when it comes to Glee because that show was on

for how many years? Five years? Six years? So,

yeah, I just didn't. Again, from what I remember,

it was just like a bunch of Abercrombie and Fitch.

you know, kind of teeny boppers. And that's what

I was worried about when it came to Arrow, where

it was all CW version of a DC, dark DC comic

book character. I don't want to see Abercrombie,

but they've flipped my, subverted my expectations

when it comes to that. And Barry as, you know,

mom's apple pie as he is, he's not that. He's

not Abercrombie and Fitch. He's just a good guy.

So, I mean, I take, I give credit to Gustin when

it comes to that. I just finished watching the

last season just aired. I've been trying to catch

up before the new season starts. And still, he's

still great. He has not wavered, and we've talked

about it before. He's great in these crossovers.

He's great even with these, I want to say, gimmicky

episodes like in future seasons where they're

doing the musical episodes of The Flash, which

doesn't hold a candle to the Buffy musical episode,

but it's still all right. I mean, he's still

good. I mean, he's a good anchor for that show.

When you came into it, I mean, I didn't think

Emil was a good anchor for Arrow, and he was

great. He may be a great anchor for this network.

And going in, I didn't think Grant Gustin was

a great anchor for The Flash, and he anchors

this show. Everybody revolves around him and

their relationships with him. Absolutely. Yeah,

looking at Grant's filmography, I mean, it's

essentially the DC TV universe. I mean, he did

do, from 2010 to 2011, he did do West Side Story

on Broadway. He was in... Maybe he'll be in the

movie. I know Spielberg's trying to do it. Oh,

God. I know if he gets a Spielberg movie, that'll

do it. But, you know, the TV schedule is a bear.

Yeah. 23 episodes. Yeah. Okay, I'll say this

right now before we get into more of the casting

couch stuff. These 23 episodes were a hell of

a lot faster than Arrow's 23 episodes. Well,

because the Arrow seasons are usually the most,

like... put upon era was the most put upon character

where you just suffer you just suffer like oh

come on ollie damn it but flash is like hey we're

gonna go save the world all right let's go you

know and he's got like a team and he had a team

before oliver had a team oliver went through

a whole bunch of episodes it was him and then

diggle kind of came on and then felicity came

on and it was a training for a while Flash from

the word go has four people who know his identity.

Five if you count, wait, six? How many people

know his identity the first episode? So, yeah.

So, yeah, Grant Gustin. The only other thing

that he's been in, he was on something for like

eight episodes. I forget what it is because I

just closed the tab. But he was also on an episode

of CSI Miami kind of thing. Everybody was on

that show. Everybody. Candice Patton, who plays

Iris West Allen, she is a soap opera diva. Really?

2011 for film, she was in The Craigslist Killer

as Kate for the TV movie The Craigslist Killer.

Young and the Restless, Bold and the Beautiful,

Days of Our Lives, One Tree Hill. One Tree Hill,

of course. How do you feel about her as Iris?

I like her as Iris. I'm normally... Okay, how

do I say this properly without offending my co

-host and without offending the rest of the world?

You're used to the white Iris, essentially what

you're saying. I'm used to the character being

Caucasian. However, as long as whatever person

fills that... I can't see Iris. as anything else

now after watching candace like right right right

she is i she is iris i i figured that even the

movies even though they cut out her role the

irish west on the movies was also i think it

was played by the girl from um uh neighbors too

i forget her name she's really she's really good

uh another but another african -american actress

but yeah yeah essentially they robert downey

jr that character where now you can't see anything

but the way they performed yeah Yeah, so on an

episode of Grey's Anatomy, also CSI Miami, not

the same episode as Grant, which is kind of crazy.

She was on Man Up for three episodes. I don't

know why. Did anyone even watch that show? Man

Up. Oh, my God. Yeah. That was in 2011. 2012,

she was on an episode of Rizzoli and Isles, which

is one of my favorite shows because it's Boston

cops and that kind of thing. And Angie Harmon,

I don't care how old she gets, as long as she

keeps her voice in pristine condition, she will

always be hot to me. The Whisperer. That's right.

Let's see here. Daniel Pennebaker, Killer Frost,

or the future Killer Frost. Caitlin Snow. You

know what her debut was? And I did not realize

this until just now, and I now remember it. Her

debut was as Layla Williams in Sky High from

2005. Oh, my God. To her credit, she's now like

behind the cameras now. She's like the first

female director of a CW – it just happened recently.

I think it was either just announced. I saw it

somewhere. It was an article that came up on

my Twitter feed that she's now either directing

episodes of The Flash. And so she's a badass.

So, I mean – and it comes to the characters on

the show. We're going back to Iris a little bit.

I think she's kind of fallen into the – laurel

territory where i think every character kind

of has a niche and with iris for the seasons

from this season to the next season they were

always trying to figure out what to do with her

or everybody else kind of like you know where

caitlyn's going i know where she's going cisco

i know where he's going Welles, you definitely

know where he's going. But Iris, she never kind

of knew. Today she's going to be working at a

coffee shop. Oh, now she's a journalist. Oh,

now she's a cop -ish. And now she's leading the

team. This is like, okay, they were trying to

figure out what to do with her. But, I mean,

as terms as actress goes, I think she's good.

And Gerda plays Penny Baker. Was it Danielle

Penny Baker? Yeah, Danielle Penny Baker. She

started off kind of like they wanted to make

her the raven, you know, stoic, you know, ass

burgers, not knowing how to do social interactions.

But they've warmed her up, ironically. Warmed

her up as the series has gone on. Even with this

Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde thing they're doing as

of late. Yeah, absolutely. I know this is one

of your favorite shows, and I don't know if you

remember or not. She had a recurring role for

six episodes on Justified in 2014. I don't remember

where the hell she... What was her character's

name? Penny Cole. I think she might have been

working with the... She might have been an informant,

I think. I vaguely... vaguely remember. I gotta

go back and watch Justified. Folks, Justified's

a really good show. Side notes, footnotes. Justified,

awesome show. But yeah, I gotta go watch. I think

she might have been one of the... Raylan always

would find informants to give him information,

and I think she might have been one of them reoccurring

ones that had to be put in witness protection

because she talked. But, you know, great actress.

Good actress. Carlos Valdez. DCTV is his only...

Much older than he looks, by the way. Yeah. I

saw him between, I guess, seasons, and he had

a full beard. I'm like, what the fuck? He's like,

wait a minute, how old are you, man? I thought

it was a fake beard. That's how I was like, wait,

wait, wait, how old is he? Another one, I did

not like him. Probably by the third episode,

I was like, oh, this guy's awesome. This guy's

the heart of the show, essentially. I kind of

got annoyed with him at first, but after a while,

I very much enjoy Cisco at this point. All right,

so we get into Dr. Wells, or at least who plays

Dr. Wells, Tom Cavanaugh. And this guy has been

in a lot of stuff. Yes. Scrubs. Scrubs, yep.

What's the name of that show? Is it Pushing?

Not Pushing Daisies, is it? No, not Slytherin

guy. Was it Pushing Daisies? I can't remember.

Ooh, he was in Viper for one episode in 1998.

Viper? Hey, shut up. Ed was the name of the show.

I get Pushing Daisies and Ed mixed up for some

reason. I don't know. He was in Sports Night.

He was in... Oh, wow. He was Ranger Smith in

the 2010 Yogi Bear. Yes, he was. Why do I remember

that? I remember every sad bit of that. That

happened, folks. That happened. He was Will's

father in Freddy vs. Jason in 2003. Wait, I don't

remember him there. Oh, wow, that's a good one.

There you go. Like I said, Sports Night, Ed,

Bang Bang, You're Dead. Great title. The prequel

to Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, I'm assuming. Probably.

I don't know. He was in Eli Stone for seven episodes

as a recurring role. He was in Royal Pains as

a recurring role. Jack O'Malley. He was in one

episode of Doc McStuffins on the Disney Channel.

Disney Junior, whatever it is. Here's the question.

Has he done a CSI or an NCIS? Does not look like

it. No. Wow. Nope. He is not. Fix that. Making

sure. Yep. Nope. Has not. I do not see any of

those credits here. Unbelievable. The one man

that's escaped. The one man. So, I kind of have

watched Robot Chicken off and on. I'm not like

the biggest fan of it. But in 2015, he voiced

Eobard. Thawne in the episode Ants on a Hamburger.

Okay. Okay. I don't. Whatever. And then obviously

Harrison Wells, Eobard Thawne in Flash, Arrow,

Legends, and Supergirl. Let's see. Who else?

There have been a number of guest roles. Villains

for this season, you got Leonard Snart and Nick

Rory. Yes, perfect casting. Two guys from a show

I don't like, but who have amazing chemistry

together. Wentworth Miller and Dominic Purcell.

Dominic Purcell kind of got off on the wrong

foot with me with Blade III. That was the first

time I had ever seen him, and I really don't

like Blade III. Neither does pretty much anybody

who ever made that movie. So every time I see

him, it's like, oh, God. Or at least until Legends

came along, and we'll get into that soon. I was

just like, oh, you're Dracula. You're the Dracula

they came up with. Why? Why? But no, his chemistry

with Wentworth on Prison Break, though I do not

like that show, was great. So casting them as

partners in crime is awesome. That was perfect

casting right there. Yeah, that is very much

perfect casting. I saw the first Blade movie.

Oh my god, that movie is... I don't even want

to say it. It's 20 years old. Oh god. I remember

where I was when I saw that movie. Tallahassee

AMC, Governor's Square Mall. I remember where

I was. I remember every ounce of that. So, I

liked the first Blade film. The second movie

creeped me out all to hell. And then when I rewatched

it later, I'm like, this is bad. You don't like

the second Blade? No. That's Guillermo del Toro,

baby. That's the one with the face ripper off.

No. That's the Reavers. Yeah, whatever they're

called. I don't know. But, yeah, no. I think

that's my favorite one. I mean, I think the first

one has the better villain because Deacon Frost

is awesome. Stephen Dorff, shout out. Blade II,

I think, because before the age of comic books

that we're living in right now, comic movies,

like every frame of that movie looks like a comic

book frame. And Wesley Snipes, to his credit,

I think Guillermo might have said this, he just

knows how to pose like a comic book frame. If

you rewatch that movie, everything that Wesley

does in that movie, he's like posing. He's posing

like he's a freeze frame in a comic book. But

I don't know. I like the look of it. I think

the villain was a little weak, but that's probably

about as bad as I – I mean, Ron Perlman was great

in there. Chris Christopherson, you got the young

– what's his name from Walking Dead is up in

there. I don't know. What the hell is his name?

I forget his name. Crossbow guy. Yeah. I don't

know. They're all zombies to me. No zombies lives

matter. Daryl. Daryl, yeah. Yeah, Daryl. There

you go. Daryl Dixon. I don't know. Anyway, so

the episodes. You had said earlier that you were

kind of skeptical going into this, but... Very

skeptical, yeah. Yeah, you came around, though.

I think after re -watching this season, this

first season again, the only thing I'll say is,

I'll piggyback what you said earlier. Once we

get to episode five, it kind of is villain of

the week for a while. Right. You know, hitting

power outage and that kind of stuff. Power outage

and Plastique, which were the fifth and seventh

episodes. You know, 5, 6, and 7 were all villain

of the week. By the time they hit 8, which was

the first crossover, the crossover with Flash

and Arrow, that was fine. Manly Yellow Suit is

fine. Revenge of the Rogues I loved. Sound and

Fury, it sets up more story and it introduces

Hartley, but it technically could be villain

of the week as well. Right. Episode 12 of Season

1 is crazy for you. And this is the one where

you almost think, even though you know it's not

going to happen, you almost think Barry and Caitlin

are going to be a thing. Yeah. Because they have

this whole storyline in this episode of... They

were setting it up from the first episode, though.

Yeah. When she's putting the things on him and

he's kind of flirty. Like, you don't smile a

lot. It's like, oh. Now that I go back and watch

it, it's kind of like, oh, I can see what they

were trying to do here. Yeah. But nah, they don't

have that. They have a brother sister thing going

on. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But I love that it

led to this episode because as I said before,

Barry's version of smooth criminal is amazing.

And you'll hear that right here. So yeah, crazy

for you. Kind of like the halfway point a little

bit, because after that we get into 13 and 14,

which is the nuclear man and fallout, which is

basically them figuring out that the burning

man is Ronnie. Ronnie is alive. Hartley had showed

Cisco that, Hey, they're not dead kind of a thing.

And in the episode before episode 11, and then

So what are you thinking up to Nuclear Man and

the Fallout, like the first 14 episodes? What

are your thoughts overall? Do you have any favorite

moments? I know there's a lot of really cool

moments in the first 14 episodes. Yeah, again,

I was just very pleasantly surprised that it

was moving at, like you were saying earlier,

that it goes at such an easy -to -go clip. The

fact that they were really, again, and I like

how they were, they started doing a little bit

of this with Arrow and they were doing it very

sneakily, expanding this universe. I love how

Flash was just like, nah, man, we're going to

really expand it. Here's Grodd. Just in the background,

we're going to throw it at you. We're going to,

you know, we're going to make mention of metahumans.

We're going to say all this, you know, and, you

know, I'm a sucker for, you know, them doing

little drops like that. But again. When it came

to the characters, and I think we kind of skipped

over one of the characters I think really made

this show hit for me, it's Jesse L. Martin. Oh,

yes. Jesse L. Martin, a vet of the show I love,

Law & Order, in the criminal justice system.

Yeah, Law & Order, has such great chemistry with

Gustin, and their relationship is a lot of what

made this show work for me, especially... as

this has... They've kind of got away with it

in the last couple seasons, but the first season

especially, I believe them. I believe their father

-son love. And it doesn't seem like a put -on.

It appears that they have a history. And that

could just be because Jesse L. Martin's a freaking

badass instead of a talented son of a bitch.

But the chemistry works both ways. So every time

they have father -son moments. And John Wesley

Shipp as well. Awesome fathers. I mean, the fact

that he has two great actors. John Wesley Shipp

is great. And Jesse O'Martin is unsung to work

off. And they both have good chemistry with Grant

Gustin. And I think that's what really hit home

for me was like, you know what? I like these

people. The monster of the week stuff as we're

getting on to the eighth episodes or whatnot

in the Arrow Flash, it's fine. But when they're

sitting around and it's just Jesse L and it's

given a heart to heart because heart to heart

moments and TV shows could suck. They can be

so cliche. And sometimes they are. And sometimes

the dialogue is they're purposefully like saying

exposition because they have to recap people

who haven't seen the show. But for some reason,

Jesse L and Grant can sell it. I can I can buy

it. I can buy. Oh, this is what, you know, fathers

do say. I can hear this conversation because

Jesse L. Martin is a vet. He knows what the hell's

going on. And I think. I mean, they've kind of

downplayed him in the, it might because of his

doing, because the man is a Broadway phenom.

So he might not be able to do the show as, as

frequently as he did before, but when he's on

with it, the man has chemistry with everybody,

but with his chemistry with Grant, I think makes

the show go for season one. Yeah, absolutely.

I completely agree. This show debuted, and I'm

only bringing this up because I wanted to make

a joke, but I'm not going to. This show debuted

10 years after Lenny's death. Jerry Orb, I was,

like, when Flash was first announced, when the

first episode appeared on the CW, I'm like, hey,

that's Ed Green. When's Lenny Briscoe going to

come in? And I'm like, oh, wait, whoops. Oh,

no. But, like, yeah, just like you, like, I watched,

you know, the Lenny and Ed show on Law & Order.

The Lenny and Ed show. The best combo of caps.

Well, okay, if you watch Law & Order, the main

show from the beginning. It's not them, right?

They have a rotating set of... Joe, what's his

name? Goodfellas was on there once, wasn't he?

Joe Pesci? No, no, no. Servino, Paul Servino,

sorry. Was he one of them? Yep, Paul Servino.

The only person I think that those first few

years, and I'd have to go back and look, and

I'm not doing that right now. I think the only

person in the first few years of Law & Order's

run, the only person that did not change... was

S. Epathiam Merkerson as the captain. Right,

right, right. Because she was just always there.

The cops always rotated in and out. Yada, yada,

yada, yada, yada. So, but yeah, as soon as I

saw him, I'm like, hey, it's Ed Green. That's

awesome. It shows in these episodes because he's

a... I mean, that guy's a good actor, man. Oh,

yeah. So there's scenes where he's in with, let's

say it's him and Tom Cavanaugh having odds at

it. And they're both vets, so you're just like,

okay, this is higher brow than, you know. the

universe they're inhabiting kind of dictates

it's like it's like dropping daniel day lewis

and like a teletubbies episode like whoa what's

going on here this is kind of big to this act

is almost too good for this show where a guy

named the rainbow raiders running around so it's

kind of like you know i always take a step back

from like when i see jesse l show up or jesse

i'll do a scene with somebody and he or another

guest that we almost forgot is uh what's his

name um Jack Bristow, who plays Professor Stein,

who's freaking awesome. That would be Victor

Garber. Always awesome Garber, who, again, great

actor, Broadway phenom, badass. So when there's

scenes with those guys, it's like if JCL's talking

to Victor Garber or Victor Garber's talking to

Tom Cavanaugh, you got some good acting going

on here, really good acting. And to Arrow's credit,

you had some, I mean, a lot of it falls on Amel.

But here you had like Grant surrounded by really

strong vets. I mean, I think you have Blackthorn

on Arrow. I guess that was the biggest vet you

got and maybe Merlin. here you guys everywhere

grant turns you're gonna get you get you have

a foundation of really strong solid actors john

wesley ship is like the fourth yeah well he's

the original flash original flash right you know

i mean that's just the way it is and once uh

i think it's season two or season three of the

flash i forget how long it took them to have

have him do this as soon as joe start like they

do this alternate reality thing or whatever and

soon as he starts singing oh my god that was

on it was in rent for christ's sake that's badass

yeah absolutely love that guy um so we get rogue

time we get tricksters and hey look the original

trickster is back luke skywalker is the original

trickster mark hamill if you ever had i mean

i'm not a huge fan of the last jedi but if that

The only thing I will say is I think it reminded

people that Mark Hamill's a badass. He can fucking

act rings around people. The guy's been doing

it for years as the Joker, but the fact that

it's very easy, it would have been very easy

for Mark to be doing Trickster as the Joker,

and he doesn't. There's a very good delineation

between the two, and it would have been very

easy if he was lazy at this point, but he's not.

Mark Hamill... gets it. I think he gets his universe

and I get to go back and play this character

I played on this kind of fledgling goof of a

show years ago that got a cult following. Sure,

but I'm not going to make it the Joker. That's

what I was worried about when he was coming back

to do it. I was like, he's going to sound like

the Joker. There might be octaves that are similar,

but he plays them way different, which I thought

was great. I hear... joker i hear a dark version

of luke very dark version of luke definitely

i mean like definitely like but still it's still

mark hamill as the like when he starts doing

the um you know his his laugh the trickster laugh

like that's when i hear Yeah, the trickster laugh

is very different than the Joker laugh. So that's

when I hear the actual trickster character from

the old show. But the rest of the time, I'm like,

this is just an evil Luke Skywalker mixed in

with an evil Joker. They even make a joke about

that in one of the episodes he shows up on. Yeah.

Absolutely. I just, yeah, as we've been going

through this, absolutely love that. You know,

we have episode 18, All -Star Team -Up, which

is, this is kind of the, it has been debuting

on Arrow, I guess, at this point, maybe. But,

you know, The Atom. And I'm going to say this

right now. Up until Brandon Routh was cast as

Ray Palmer. Didn't like him, did you? That was

the single actor in the DC whatever entertainment

stuff. absolutely loathe the guy. Didn't like

him, right? And he wins you over, doesn't he?

It's more of an Arrow Season 3 conversation,

but no, I'm right there with you. Even, I think,

what came out, this came out before Scott Pilgrim,

or Scott Pilgrim came out first? I don't know.

I can't remember, because he's in there too for

a little bit, but yeah, yeah, his Ray Palmer

is, I mean, the aw shucksness of the guy is entertaining

to me. I don't know what it is. The Ray Palmer

stuff is what should have been written for Superman

Returns. The all shucks Clark Kent kind of stuff.

Right, right, right. Like, oh, shucks, Miss Lane.

I, you know, kind of, like, don't get me wrong.

Thank God we did not get Nicolas Cage as Superman,

even though we are getting him as Superman at

one point. Well, we have him right now on Teen

Titans Go, the movie. Oh, God, that's right.

But yeah, no, I could not stand Brandon Routh.

No, I could not stand the guy. But here, as Adam,

as Ray Palmer, in Arrow, here in Flash, absolutely

love the guy. Once he eventually switches over

to Legends, still love the guy. Gets better.

He gets better on Legends. Better and better

and better so much. His relationship with...

mick is awesome yeah it is haircut a haircut

that stuff is great yeah it's amazing um what

was i gonna say about him the uh oh uh since

i don't know switch gears a little bit because

we forgot to mention this um throughout this

whole season of flash the first season and then

arrow season three they kind of tease up a little

bit of barry and felicity right will they won't

they kind of stuff and they have this nice little

moment and things like that and whatever and

again another one of those what's wrong with

us you know yeah whereas whereas caitlin and

barry is more of what's wrong with us why are

we you know not putting ourselves out there barry

and felicity is like We're both pining after

people we can't have. Maybe we should get together.

Oh, wait, no, that's not a good idea. They're

the same person. They can't. They're too similar.

They're dating themselves. It's like, no. I think

the way they work is fine. Even then, I think

they kind of hinted at when he first showed up

on Arrow Season 2. It's kind of like, you can

see when it clicks. It's like, I don't feel it.

I never felt it between those two. Everyone always

talks about shipping Oliver and Felicity, or

whatever the hell the ship, I don't even care.

I hate that there are ship names for stuff. I

just cannot stand it. But Barry and Felicity,

if he didn't already have a predestination for

Iris kind of a thing, even though they are so

similar, like you said, they would be almost

like dating yourself. I do like them. in scenes

that they are in together when they, you know,

are concerned for each other, when they're having

a joke with each other and doing all that kind

of stuff. I do very much like them. I believe

that they could be a couple more than I believe

her and Oliver could be a couple. Really? At

least at this point in the universe, later down

the line, not so much, but I don't know. Um,

and then we get, who is Harrison Wells? Um, Which

they introduced Hannibal Bates here. Hmm. I wonder

if that's his real name. Hannibal Bates. I remember...

What the heck is the name of that movie? I think

when I first saw him. The character debuted as

Everyman. slash Hannibal Bates debuted in 52,

number 17, August 30th, 2006. So it isn't just

them making a joke at, you know, Psycho. That's

the first thing I thought of was like, you know,

between Psycho and Silence of the Lambs was the

first thing I thought of. How do you feel about

You mentioned it earlier that Grodd's kind of

in the background here for a lot of this season.

Do you feel like a lot of the Flash stuff that

we already knew before going into this, like

if anyone had watched Justice League, Justice

League Unlimited, do you feel like all the Flash

stuff is here that we do know, like Grodd, like

this, like that? Again, these guys in the TV

show I think are very good at setting stuff up.

Sometimes they're not great on the follow through,

but they're very good at setting stuff up. So

the fact that they gave me the mention of Grodd,

because Grodd is like a major Flash villain.

I mean, Captain Cold, Grodd, Mirror Master. Those

are the ones that, when I think of Flash Rogues

Gallery, those are the ones I always go to. And

Grodd is always, like, right there. If you ever

watch Justice League, you're talking about Justice

League Unlimited, Grodd is a huge character.

Oh, yeah. I mean, he was, like, I think he took

over from Lex at one point. He's a badass. And

I think they've always wanted to do it. And I

know if they had their druthers, they would do

a lot more of Grodd, especially with the whole,

and I think Andy Serkis is going to help this

out with the... anapomorphic monkey thing going

on but it's probably very very i think expensive

to use and killer shark speaking of other characters

it's very expensive to do those characters though

there's when your character one of your main

characters is so expensive to do but every time

he showed up i think if you temper him You saved

the budget. Okay, look, we have Grodd this season.

We're going to put most of our money into Grodd

for this one episode, and that's it. You don't

have to have Grodd every episode because you

can't. That's like a $100 million picture or

whatever. But I've always liked them. I think

they've used them properly on this show throughout

all the seasons, I think. They've used them as

properly. I think that was the last one they

had. What the hell was the name of Grodd? Grodd

Island? Yeah, it was Grodd Island. Something

like that. I thought it was really good. I think

the way they use Grodd is great. Yep. Grodd makes

America great again. It can't be much worse than

a monkey controlling our brains. It can't be

much worse. So as these final episodes are winding

down, who is Harrison Wells, the trap, Grodd

lives, you're basically getting the whole plan

of what Eobard is doing. At first, throughout

this entire season, I didn't care whether Eddie

lived or died. yep i think at first i think at

first that was on purpose i did not care because

eddie in the beginning eddie like he's so inconsequential

up until like the last five episodes right and

the way that he is portrayed not this is not

the actor's fault but the way that the actor

is portraying the character from whatever is

written i don't know if he ad -libbed any of

this stuff The big giant smile every time Barry

comes around. Hey, Barry. Oh, God. Hey, Barry.

How you doing, Barry? I know you can keep secrets,

Barry. He has that voice. I did not have any

faith in Eddie until they revealed to him that

Barry. Until they started working together so

late in the season, like I said. last five or

six episodes right i did not care about eddie

until the last five or six when they reveal like

them like when he's like oh well how how are

you gonna take care of because there's one point

where they're they have to get like a multiple

car chase thing or multiple incidents are happening

and flash is working with joe and eddie and Eddie

asks him in a flash, how are you going to do?

Oh, that's how you're going to do it. Whoops,

okay. Because Flash just zooms cars around and

puts Joe in another car and all this stuff and

everything else. So up until they started working

together to make the city safe again or more

safe or whatever you want to call it, I had zero

anything for Eddie Thawne. I don't want to go

Machiavellian here, but... I think the fact that

they – the fact that the ending sequence, even

though it's plainly – it should have been plainly

obvious what was going to happen, the fact that

he's so inconsequential, you're saying, and we

don't like him, and he's kind of like the other

guy, every teen, your romantic chick flick, the

guy you don't like because he's in the way of

the hero getting the girl kind of person. I think

they did that on purpose because when he – Spoiler

alert. Pulls the trigger, you're like, oh! Oh!

You know, you give you that moment. If you kind

of made him a good guy, it might have been a

different kind. It might have still worked. I

think it would have been different because when

he pulls that trigger, it makes it more tragic

where he does the first thing you really like.

But the first thing he really likes is him killing

himself. So it's like, damn it. We can't even

enjoy the fact that he's become somebody now

we really, really like because he's dead. Because

as the show is going on, you don't really like

him. He doesn't really do anything that you're

like, oh, yeah, go at it. You don't give a shit.

You don't care. So when that moment happens,

one, it comes out of nowhere, and it shouldn't

have come out of nowhere. His name is Staun.

The bad guy's name is Staun. They even bring

up, is it Staun? You should know that the easiest

way is to fucking kill Eddie. But you don't really

care because you don't like Eddie. You don't

give a shit about Eddie. Like I said, I gave

a shit about him before the shot because, like

I said, once they start working together, once

he's actually in on it. I don't like his whole

thing after that where he's like, well, you got

to tell Iris. If you don't tell Iris, I'm going

to tell Iris. You know, that whole thing. I didn't

like that. But when they're out catching the

bad guys and that kind of thing, I liked him

there. I love the little speech. And technically

his death is all Martin Stein's fault. Jack Bristow

killed Eddie Thawne. Where is Jack Bristow? He

doesn't give a shit about anybody. I know, right?

But, yeah, he, you know, shoots himself and thus,

you know. Back to the future is Eobard. Yeah,

pretty much, yeah. I love, like, season one,

episode 23, Fast Enough, the season finale, is

by far one of, if not the best ever, superhero

television show season finales. Pretty good.

I think Arrow Season 2, Season 7, it's like my

favorite of all of them. But this one's right

there. Because the whole show, the whole episode,

I'm kind of like, how the fuck are they going

to get out of this situation? What's going to

happen? Yep. And I actually, it's so funny, I

actually had to watch the Season 1 finale twice.

Really? Because... I was so tired last night.

I started watching it. Next thing I know, it's

like 5 AM and something else is on my net. Like,

Oh no, it wasn't something else on my Netflix,

on my phone. I was like 5 AM and I was like season

two, episode four. I'm like, wait, what, what

happened? Hold, wait a minute here. I know I

didn't watch the last four episodes. So yeah,

I season one of the flash. It's. superb it really

is that there's not a lot here that i dislike

other than eddie up until he has his you know

it's come to come to god moment with a gun essentially

it's come to grod moment I'm going to blame episode

22 of The Flash. This has pissed me off until

this day. And it probably has nothing to do with

The Flash people, the directors, Greg Belanti.

I blame CW because CW's marketing department

essentially spoils the season finale of season

three of Arrow. god damn commercial for this

because it shows Oliver Queen who at the time

we don't know if he's completely like under the

spell of Ra's al Ghul helping Barry out and I'm

like okay I guess he's not under the spell of

Ra's al Ghul anymore why would you show that

in a fucking commercial it doesn't make it and

to this day the episode itself like I had not

like I was not going to stop watching flash at

episode 22 just to catch up arrow to see where

oliver is like i forgot about it too like i'm

like oh right like i knew he went to go get uh

ronnie stein you know firestorm and and ollie

i knew he went to go get them i forgot where

arrow was at the time because i'm like hey he's

the dark archer what the hell what's going on

here he's got black arrows well the whole thing

so when it comes up i'm like well this is kind

of uh anticlimactic i know he's gonna turn because

the way they left the episode before what yeah

it is to this day it bothers me i'm like who

decided on that Who's like, yeah, yeah, don't

worry about it. It's like, God, you just essentially

spoil the entire storyline. And that's just probably

one of the faults of season three of Arrow. Yeah,

I blame Arrow. Yeah, I fully blame Arrow. Anything

else you want to bring up about season one of

The Flash? Tom Cavanaugh's good. We've talked

about him. I'm glad they flirted with, they only

flirted with the Sherlock. uh pop text when barry

does the csi thing because every time i see that

in other shows especially with the beginning

of this one and near the earlier stages of this

episode i'm like why are you ripping off sherlock

Don't rip off Sherlock, man. Get out of here.

You're not Sherlock Holmes. Get out of here.

You're a regular guy. You're just a regular guy.

Even without your – your lightning didn't make

you Sherlock Holmes. Get out of here. So, yeah,

I'm glad they didn't make it like crime of the

week. They really pulled back on the CSI stuff,

and I thought they were going to make it like

a motif as I was going. I was like, oh, no. I

think they did it for the first three episodes

or the first three times he does a CSI thing,

and I'm like – No, man, you're a superhero. Do

the other thing. But no, everything else, Grant

Gustin, again, prove me wrong. Him and Jesse

L. Martin, great. The guest stars are great.

There's a guy who plays Kyle Nimbus. He also

plays Victor Zsasz on Gotham. He's ironically,

or coincidentally, on a show called Barry on

HBO, and he's freaking amazing. With Bill Hader,

he's awesome. But yeah, a lot of the guest stars

on this show, And this show has a litany of amazing

guests. I was like, what? Goldberg? Edge? It's

like crazy guest stars on this show. It's always

been entertaining. And this show is essentially,

if you get away from the dourness that is Arrow,

which it works for, you kind of want to have

the other side of the coin where it's upbeat

and happy. And when it starts getting dark, Sabotar,

it kind of doesn't work. That well? See, I thought

it did. Because you have, like, up until the

actual reveal. I'll watch Arrow if I want that.

I don't want to watch it in Barry, man. You can't

give me stakes without being depressing. As season

one proved. You had stakes and I wasn't depressed

at all in the whole season. And it had mad, it

had crazy stakes. Right. But. the trajectory

that the show takes up until you get to Savitar,

like, it was going darker, darker, darker, and

now it's leaning more towards light again, season

four. See, the issue with the first three seasons

of The Flash is that season one, speedster. Season

two, speedster. Season three, speedster. Four

fixed it. I think four got right back on track.

Right, right, exactly, because four... I think

at one point we see Eobard's character at some

point in some sort of timeline thing or whatever.

But season four was The Thinker. Season four

was a completely different animal. And it injected

another character that brought new life to the

show, Digby. Elongated man. That character, I

think now he's a series regular. Because for

some reason, every scene that guy is in, I forget

the actor's name. breath of fresh air like oh

wow i forgot flash is supposed to be the fun

show the fun now i mean it's not as fun as legends

of tomorrow but it's the like you know the super

i don't want to do superman batman but he's the

superman show uh flash is the flash superman

show arrow is the batman show i don't want the

superman show feeling like the batman show and

vice versa but there are times when superman

does have to go dark sure i mean you know that's

fine that's not all the damn It's not. No, it

was one season. Come on. That's 23 episodes.

That's a long, long time. But it's okay because

Flash is so much easier to watch than Arrow.

Like even when Flash is at his darkest hour,

we don't necessarily need the Matrix of Leadership

to light that just yet. You know, I mean, don't

be like Flash is like the first, the first 10

minutes of Transformers the movie and Arrow's

the last half. It's dark and depressing. Everybody's

dead. Prime is on a table. The drop of Transformers

and Unicron's intestines. It's just dark. Oh,

God. Check it out. It's pretty good. Yes. September

27th. In theaters for one night only. God. If

it's down here, I'm going. It has to be. Anyway.

All right. Season one of The Flash. Zero to five.

What are you going to rate it? I'll give it a

four. solid for. The Creature of the Week stuff

kind of takes a little bit of a way for, but

I mean, for a show that I had zero, I was just

like, this is not going to work. I don't, who

the hell is Grant Gustin? I don't get this. And

now it's like, you know, either they're kind

of fighting between, is it the best show on CW?

Is it between this and Arrow? It's amazing where

it came from. This is sacrilege to Optimus, but

I'm just going to say this right now since we're

comparing the two. Optimus is Arrow, and Arrow

can die, and Flash is Rodimus, and Rodimus Prime

is the best Transformers leader ever. Oh, come

on. Now you're just smoking dope. Are you crazy?

Nope. Are you crazy? Nope, I'm not crazy. All

right. For me, I will also give Flash Season

1 a 4 .5. No, it's not. I've always been like,

yes, Optimus. Optimus is the John Wayne is the

father figure, but Optimus does a lot of stupid

stuff in G1. Does he get Rodimus killed? Oh,

no, that's the other guy, right? Don't get me

in a transplant debate with you, okay? We're

not going to get started. Yes, we will. I'm also

going to give four and a half out of five for

The Flash Season 1. We're going to take a quick

break, come back with Arrow Season 3 after this.

It's going to be dark. Yeah, really. Where's

Damien when you need him? Who is Damien Wayne

in this situation? Oh, God. Is it Roy Harper?

Who the fuck is Damien? Thea? I guess. Thea would

have to be Batgirl. So that's my story. I've

spent my whole life searching for the impossible,

never imagining that I would. become the impossible.

So why come to me? Something tells me you didn't

just run 600 miles to say hi to a friend. All

my life I've wanted to just do more. Be more.

And now I am. And the first chance I get to help

someone, I screw up. What if Wells is right?

What if I'm not a hero? What if I'm just some

guy who was struck by lightning? I don't think

that bolt of lightning struck you, Harry. I think

it chose you. I'm just not sure I'm like you,

Oliver. I don't know if I can be some vigilante.

You can be better. Because you can inspire people.

We are back here on Remote Control. Now it's

time to talk about Batman Season 3. Master Queen.

Master Queen. Oh, Arrow Season 3. Imagine if

Walter was his butler instead of his stepfather.

Oliver. Oliver. Yes, exactly. exactly um arrow

season three has such a stigma for me because

it's so batman that's what they were going for

here yes i love the sarah bits and all of that

i think that's great that they try to do all

that and i forgot it wasn't until season four

that they actually do revive her i thought they

did it in season three must be the story like

wait that's it yeah really like exactly like

um hello um So yeah, really quickly before we

get too far into the, the episode stuff, uh,

recurring roles for this season. We have, um,

Tatsu is here. Uh, Brick, Danny Brickwell is

here. Ra's al Ghul, not Ra's. Ra's. They actually

started saying Ra's. They tried to make sense

of it because you have to be in the league to

say Ra's, and if you're out of the league, you

say Ra's, but it's always Ra's. It's always Ra's.

Batman wasn't in the league, and he still said

Ra's in Batman the Animated Series. You damn

right he did. Whatever Conroy says goes. Exactly.

You have J .R. Ramirez as Ted Grant Wildcat.

You have Charlotte Ross as Donna Smoke. Brandon

Routh as Ray Palmer slash The Atom. Guest people,

you've got Eugene Bird as Andy Diggle. Surprisingly,

John's brother is alive. Eh, whatever. You have

Amy Gumnick as Cupid. Doug Jones as Deathbolt.

Mark Singer as General Matthew Shreve. Hmm. I

wonder if he's related to the Batman Beyond Shreve.

Anyway. Katrina Law as Nyssa. Okay, now let me

ask you this. I've been dying to ask somebody

this for the longest time. Yes. Ask away. It

would have been too on the nose for them to use

Talia. Is Nyssa his actual daughter? Okay, so

she is another daughter. I thought the same thing.

I had to go back in my comic book file. I was

like, is this an actual character? Yes, she does

exist in the comic books. You have Katie Lotz

superbly filling Sarah Lance Canary. Katrina

Law, by the way, I really, really like. She's

awesome, by the way. Yeah, she is. What else

has she been in? She's been in some stuff. Let's

see here. She was in Third Watch in 2001. Oh,

okay. She was in Chuck as Alexis for one episode

in 2009. Good old Chuck. Legend of the Seeker.

Oh, Legend of the Seeker. I remember watching

that show on Saturday afternoons. Oh, wow. She

had a main role on last year's Training Day TV

series as Detective Rebecca Lee. I didn't watch

it for the simple fact that it shouldn't be a

Training Day TV series. Yeah, no. Out of general

principle, I did not watch it. Rest in peace,

Bill Paxton, but nah. Nah, bruh. Yeah, no. There's

only one Training Day, and that's not it. It

had a definitive end. Yeah, exactly. It pretty

much ended. Yep. And you've got Colton Haynes

as Roy Harper slash Arsenal. Slash Speedy, slash

whatever. Whatever the hell you want to call

himself this week. Yeah, I'm very down on this

season. Again, we've talked about this where

we're talking about season one and two. It has

nine great episodes. I was in. In. for nine episodes

i mean even with you know laurel doing her this

is when i think i started to really not like

this character i mean i was kind of like i don't

really care about this character whatever sure

and then when she starts becoming you know violent

angry laurels i don't i know you're you're nowhere

near uh katie lotts so you can't you can't be

canary but um First nine episodes, I really dug.

They really set up the dread of Ra's al Ghul

properly. I mean, Nyssa, how do you want to pronounce

it? She's very great, just the way they do that.

I really like the Malcolm Merlyn, Thea, I'm training

you to be, you know, I like that stuff. But again,

I repeat, as soon as Oliver falls off the cliff,

the season falls off a cliff with him. For me.

If they had the balls, Oliver shouldn't have

shown up until either the season finale or the

season premiere of next season. That's how I

would have done it. But again, you can't have

the show without your main character. You could

have pushed this back. The Climb, I think is

the name of the episode, which is a great...

fantastic episode it might be one of the best

episodes of cwdc whatever it's great uh they're

gonna push that back to maybe episodes maybe

episode 23 this is serious season finale or maybe

episode uh 12 somewhere in the middle a little

bit farther i didn't want to do it before the

winter break or whatnot okay so yeah this um

this is the one season out of all these shows

where i first realized winter break, you know,

mid -season finale. The whole term, mid -season

finale, came up to me with this episode because

I remember the advertisements for the climb for

this episode. All this episode is missing, even

though it would make it horrible, is Miley Cyrus.

Sorry. He was watching from a distance. Exactly.

But yeah, I specifically remember this being

like, oh my god, you mean to tell me we have

to now wait until next year? Like, we have to

now wait until... I'm like, oh god, really? Yeah,

the first nine episodes. Episode five is by far

my favorite episode so far of the entire series

as we're going through it. Season one, two, three

of Arrow. The secret origin of Felicity Smoke

is by far the best episode this show has done

outside of the climb. You love Emo Smoke. You

love Emo Smoke. It was crazy. I was wondering

when they were actually going to get to it. obviously

they did and it's super cool I don't know starting

off I guess is when you get the sign of Ra's

al Ghul title screen which I thought was cool

when they changed the arrow of the season to

that brand that Oliver gets on his back I thought

that was pretty cool I'm trying to think of all

the good things I liked about the season I'm

not skipping ahead to the climb. I really thought

again, again, going in, I'm like, nobody's going

to first going into Batman begins. I was like,

nobody's going to be better than the ratio goal

in the anime series. And Liam Neeson was really,

really good. And then I'm watching this. I'm

like, is he going to be better than Liam Neeson?

And Matt Nabel, I thought was really, really

good as ratio goal. I thought he, he, he again,

surprised me. I was, he's really just the way

he portrays. calm and confidence -ness. Like

confidence. When he's just like, I'm not, you

don't understand. It's almost like a child threatening

you. When Oliver threatens him, he's just like,

he almost feels sorry for you. Like, you don't

understand what's going to happen to you. I've

already seen the end of this movie. I know how

it ends. You do not. I hate to break it to you.

That way, that's how I always saw Ra's. Ra's

al Ghul in the comic books, the animated series.

Batman is, you know, I'm going to fight for justice

and race. This always wants to tell Batman, Batman,

what you're fighting is such a lost cause. What

are you doing? Trust me, follow my way, even

though I'm pretty mad from Lazarus pits, but

I'm pretty attuned to what's supposed to happen.

And I thought they captured that in the, in that

label character. They did. But still, nobody

can touch David Warner at this point. Yes, Matt

Naples is amazing. David Warner is the guy that

did the voice on the anime series, right? Yeah.

Yeah, he's perfect. He's the best. He is the

best. I'm glad you told me his name because I've

never knew his name, but I always hear that.

Detective. I always hear that voice in my head

when I think of Rich Uncle. Brave and the Bold,

which was episode 8, which is the second part

of Flash vs. Arrow. That was Boomerang, the other

Boomerang. The non -Jai Courtney Boomerang. Oh

my god. Yes, there are two Captain Boomerangs.

One's Jai Courtney, and one is the guy from Spartacus,

I believe. I forget his name. He has a weird

name on Spartacus, but yeah, he's good. So this

was the Boomerang episode with Digger Hartness.

I love seeing Caitlin and Cisco in Starling City.

I hate that name. Change it to Star City already.

Assholes. Love that. I think Canaries and The

Return, 13 and 14 of Season 3, are good episodes.

And then at that point... Maybe the last. This

is when you start falling. Yeah, pretty much

like the last three. The only reason why I want

to mention episode 19 out of season three is

because of the title. I was half waiting for

John Travolta and Christian Slater to show up.

What was the title of the episode? Broken Arrow.

Oh. How we long the strolls on by. Delroy Lindo

in a helicopter. It'll be great. Yeah, it would

be. I'll say this. This is me giving a positive

to Suicide Squad. I do prefer their version of

Katana than the version of Katana we got on this

show. Though the actress, I think her name is,

I'm going to say it wrong, Ryla Fukushima, I

think her name is. She was great in The Wolverine.

Terrific in The Wolverine. And she's all right

in here, but I think, Like the Katana on the

Suicide Squad, I've always said, is a bunch of

great characters in a really horrible movie.

And I think the Katana in that movie is more

the way I saw the character. I think the way

they did the visual style of what she looked

like. But it could just be budget. Because the

costume that Katana wears in this season kind

of looks very cosplay -y, I guess I would say.

Yeah. Yeah, it does. I love the whole Canaries

bit. uh, with Sarah and Laurel and all that one

way to get Katie back in the suit without, you

know, the whole hallucination flashback kind

of thing where, right. You know, Oh, that's the

other thing I want to mention about this season.

He was in, I believe he was in season two for

a little bit, but, um, the new vertigo. Oh, Peter

Stromer. Oh my God. The Devil, one of my favorite

actors who ever played Satan in Constantine,

the movie, yes. Yes. Awesome. I bet you never

thought in a million years that I could tie the

CW DC TV universe to a Bruce Willis movie. Well,

I did with Jai Courtney. okay well yeah but nobody

counts die hard five nobody does nobody does

that's a fact that is a fact right there so peter

stormare i kind of recognized him in season two

a little bit when we saw him but now that he

is full on the count here in season three i'm

like hey It's the guy. It's the Russian guy from

Armageddon when they go up to the space station.

He just skipped right over Fargo, huh? Just right

over Fargo. Is Bruce Willis in Fargo? No, I'm

just saying. Peter S. Ramirez does such great

work. He's in John Wick, for Christ's sake. He's

also in Bad Boys 2. Oh, he's great in Bad Boys

2. He's great in that movie. Peter Stromare is

one of those actors when he shows up, he's like,

oh, Peter Stromare! He's like, hey! It's like,

cheers! Oh, Peter Stromare's here! But no, he's

great. The only reason I didn't like the character,

I love the character, the only thing that gave

me pause was, even drugged, you shouldn't be

hanging in a fight with Oliver Queen. There's

no way. They're fighting, and I'm like... Peter,

you're like 59 at the youngest. You're fighting

Stephen Amell, who's a trained murderer for five

years. There's no way you should be knocking

him down, holding him against the wall. That

almost gave me pause. When he's giving out dialogue,

it's great. He's whistling tunes as he blows

stuff up. It's great. The season finale for Arrow

Season 3. wikipedia needs work we all know this

but seriously the end of the way that they end

the synopsis for the description for the episode

uh oliver decides to live a lonely life away

from his family he boards a ship headed to coast

city he doesn't board a ship him and felicity

get in a fucking car they drive away yes like

seriously Even the Wikipedia person who was typing

gave up on the season. It's like, yeah, Oliver

got on a boat or something. I don't know. Whatever.

Seriously? Really? God. Arrow season three. What

did you like? What did you like other than the

character? What stuff did you like about it?

We're trying to find all the stuff we like because

there's a lot of stuff we don't. Yeah, obviously.

I do like... How, again, how the title screen

has changed and it's another version of the Arrowhead

kind of thing. I think that's cool. I do love

the crossover bits. I do enjoy that. I love seeing

Sisko, Caitlin, and Felicity all do their geeky

stuff. I love the relationship that Barry and

Oliver have. I think it's super cool. Like you

said earlier, basically two sides to the same

coin. I kind of am enjoying Diggle's arc more

than Oliver's at this point in the season. Suicide

Squad arc? Yeah, I kind of dig that. I think

that's kind of cool that they're going that route

and the whole thing. You think that was kind

of their version of a backdoor pilot that they

changed their mind on? That's what I was getting

out of that episode. I think so, yeah. I think

so. I'm probably wrong, but I think so. I think

they wanted to try to maybe give him his own

show or give the Suicide Squad their own show

where he would still be on Arrow, but he would

guest star on... He's like the control of the

Suicide Squad or whatever, giving them their

orders and then he'd disappear or whatever. Yeah.

There's only one woman that could ever play Amanda

Waller, and she ain't here. There's only one

woman. There's two. I would say there's arguably

two women that could play Amanda Waller. CCH

Pounder is number one. Thank you. And Viola Davis

does a pretty damn good job. And again, great

characters in a shitty movie. Yeah. If you put

Viola Davis as Amanda Waller in a better movie,

she works. She's a great Amanda Waller because

she got that I don't care down. It's just she

was in a really bad movie. But CCH Pounder, yes,

I agree. That's Amanda Waller. It will always

be Amanda Waller. When you can get Claudette

Wims to be Amanda Waller and be a completely

different character from what she is on The Shield,

that's amazing. And it's very true. I mean, come

on. She's like, yeah, she's a good person. And

Manowar, she's the scum of the earth. Well, it's

one of those things where, like, obviously the

shield came. Well, I saw The Shield before I

saw most of the Justice League stuff at the time

back in 2001, 2002. And I don't even need to

look this up. I remember it to this day. March

8, 2002 is when The Shield debuted on FX because

that was the show that kicked off all of their

or FX original TV stuff. There's no programming

right now. As soon as, like, I didn't even know

who CCH Pounder was when I first saw this. She

didn't even know, didn't even care. After watching,

like, three of the seven seasons of that show

at the time, I love her. That's great. And then

I heard her on Justice League. I'm like, hey,

it's Claudette. That's great. That's the best

casting ever. You always have one of my favorite

lines, which I think, was it on Justice League

Unlimited? Maybe it was Justice League. where

she just rolls up on Batman and goes, we all

have our secrets, rich boy. I was like, yo! Why

do I remember that little exchange? Because it's

badass. But yeah, I guess our point is that the

woman who plays Amanda Waller on season three,

who's from Spartacus as well, the same with Captain

Boomerang, not intimidating enough. Amanda Waller's

not supposed to be a supermodel. Because this

girl who plays Amanda Waller, she's beautiful.

Amanda Waller is supposed to be a bulldog. They've

always referred to her as a bulldog. She doesn't

give a shit. And as I said, she's ugly. She's

just mean. You shouldn't be awed by her beauty.

You should be intimidated from the word go when

you see Amanda Waller or hear Amanda Waller.

And the girl who plays her, she's too... neat

for the part I would say I don't know why I didn't

get CCH Pounder to play her on Arrow I would

have cast her again that would have been perfect

she's a TV actress so there was one moment you

asked me about other stuff that I liked in episode

it's episode 19 I forget what episode 19 is off

the top of my head um uh I don't, I don't know.

Um, so there's one part of episode 19 where I

absolutely, uh, it's a, Oh, of course it's broken

arrow. Yeah. The car crash when they get hit.

Oh, right, right, right, right. When I was rewatching

this in order to do this podcast, quite literally

at four in the morning, With my office door closed,

I quite literally jumped two and a half inches

out of my chair and almost screamed. Because

I did not know that, like, I completely... That's

why I don't go back to a lot of this stuff. You

know, I pay attention to the stuff that I like.

I didn't really like Arrow Season 3, so I don't

remember half the stuff. But when there's a good

moment that can actually lift me out of my damn

chair, like, that's good. Because, like, I was

like... Oh, what the – oh, my God. Did that just

happen? Oh, no. Like, wow. Yeah, that was – I

think they were still – I mean, at this point,

I guess my overall thing about Arrow Season 3

is that it starts off so good and it falls off,

but I think I'm more disappointed in it because

it could have been – because you're again one

they had a tall mountain to climb uh joke joke

because they're coming off of season two which

is fucking amazing so when you give me racial

you promised me racial ghoul and you give me

the climb which is again amazing episode i'm

like okay wherever you guys go here you have

potential to make this shit amazing and they

kind of falter there's still good stuff in there

where it's like oh that's not bad you know It's

just where it ends up, it's like, oh, this is

what you came up with? Compared to what we came

up with with Deathstroke and Malcolm Merlin in

season one, it's just like, with a character

of Ra's al Ghul who, by canonical history, is

ten times more important than Deathstroke or

Merlin. It just feels like it's all short. And

I think that's why I always look at season three

like... Damn it. This pisses me off more. Matrix

Reloaded. I always say Matrix Reloaded because

Matrix Reloaded to me was great. After Neo pulls

the bullet out of Trinity, the movie is right

off a fucking cliff. The whole series is because

the motorcycle shit's awesome. The shit in the

beginning is great. As soon as he pulls the bullet

out of her, it's like, all right. Now we're in

fucking weird land and shit. So yeah, I think

Arrow Season 3, it's not the worst season of

television ever. It's just, oh, it could have

been great, and they fumbled the football, essentially,

at the goal line. Yeah, for the DCCW shows, it

is the worst season out of them all. I will fight

anybody on that. Anyone says, oh, but Legends

Season 1 is worse. No, it's not. It only had

16 episodes. Supergirl Season 1 was pretty...

without CBS. Maybe we won't count that, because

that's CBS Season 1. Yeah, that's CBS Season

1. It's not really... Not really countable. So

I got to do a bit of math here, folks. I'm not

sure if I can do this, but why don't you go on

and say, like, what you're expecting for season

four from Arrow, if you're expecting anything.

You mean the next season's coming up? Yeah, for

Arrow. Season, is it four or is it six? No, right

now, while we're in the show, season four after

season three. So what was I expecting after season

three ended? Yes. Yeah. The way they ended it

with Arrow retiring, I'm like, well, something's

going to have to pull them back. And, you know

me, at this point, I'm like, maybe it's Deathstroke

again. Because we had that great episode where

they go back to the island and Deathstroke's

there and it's him and Thea or whatnot. I love

that stuff. I didn't. I was kind of going through

my mind of where they were going to go with Arrow

that I remember from the comic books in terms

of villains. Because once you give me Rache and

you give me Deathstroke and you give me Merlin,

I'm like, who the hell else is there really?

And now we're dealing with Ricardo Diaz in the

more recent seasons. It's like, who the fuck

is right? So I think they're running out of kind

of things to take him. I think they're going

to use this season coming up is going to be the

Supermax plot. That was going to be a movie a

long time ago. But when I was finished watching

season three, I'm like, somebody big is going

to have to come to, you know, fix this. Little

did I know, I guess it was going to be this.

spinning wheel of the non -topper bot you know

stuff over and over again trying to fix their

mistake and I go as soon as you get away from

that the better stay away from that come up with

you guys need a thinker as you brought up with

the flash where you kind of you said speedster

speedster speedster speedster thinker is what

you got I guess Ricardo Diaz is supposed to be

their thinker but honestly sigh It's not that

great. Yeah, no, it isn't. Because what I wanted

to happen was I wanted Mr. Finch to kill Ricardo.

I wanted Mr. Finch to be the villain from Person

of Interest because Michael Emerson is... Anyway,

so doing the math that I've done, The Flash Season

5 coming up this October. Yes. The 8th episode

of The Flash Season 5 will be the 100th episode

of Flash overall. Okay. I don't know what the

hell they're doing with it. I have no clue. I

have not seen any news articles. More singing?

Smooth criminals? It's gonna happen? Come on!

Tom Cavanaugh and Danielle Panabaker will direct

the 8th and 18th episodes of the season, respectively.

Also... In my personal opinion, nowadays, not

so much for his early stuff, but nowadays, that

hack, Kevin Smith, will also direct an episode

of The Flash Season 5. I'm sorry. When he directed

his episode of Supergirl, and they called it

Supergirl Lives, that's great. It's a nice little

nod to something he didn't get to do with Superman

Lives. Right, right, right. But that episode,

and we'll get to that down the line, but that

episode of Supergirl was just so he could get

his daughter a job, in my personal opinion. Here's

the thing about from what I've gathered from

television to movies, and Kevin Smith has talked

about this on his podcast. When you're directing

a television show, you don't do anything, really.

I mean, this is what he was saying. He says those

shows, according to Smith, kind of run themselves.

I would be more interested if Kevin Smith wrote

an episode over directing an episode. Because

if he writes an episode, then I can see them

going – taking weird chances. But if he's not

writing the script, you're not going to really

get a lot of Kevin Smith -ism. I think in the

most recent season he directed for The Flash,

most of you guys, Jay and Silent Bob make a cameo.

But that's about as Kevin Smith -y as you're

getting. The scripts are already pre -written.

If he was writing – when you get these people

coming over to direct stuff, like I remember

Quentin Tarantino a long time ago directed an

episode of ER. You can't effing tell, because

I don't think he wrote it. Because these television

shows, the people who have the power in television

are showrunners. Greg Berlanti has the power.

He's the director of the show, essentially, in

movie terms. Absolutely, but you look at the

last 20, 25 some odd years, however long it's

been since Clerks. Right. The guy has, deservedly

so, just superstar fandom, superstar, famous

all that's you know he's a he's a director superstar

he's he's a he's a superstar geek you know between

comic book man and and fat man on batman and

everything else and i used to absolutely love

kevin smith stuff and i like some of the stuff

he still does but it's like it's like the flashbacks

from arrow season one and arrow season three

I'm fucking over it. I am so over Kevin Smith

right now. I've been over him for the last five

years at this point. I don't know. But anyway.

Yeah, I think for Kevin Smith, I think I'm interested

in more of his takes in terms of writing, his

style in terms of directing. I guess Red State

would be the anomaly because that's actually

pretty good. Yeah. You would get more of a flavor

of Kevin Smith. But I've seen all the episodes

that Kevin Smith's directed. If I didn't tell

you, you would never. And I got rid of the Jay

and Silent Bob cameos. You'd never know. There

is nothing, even to Kevin Smith's style as a

director, that you would know. But if Kevin Smith

wrote an episode, I guarantee you would know.

Because the comic book he wrote, he made him

and Alex Ross did the covers. of 1966 Batman

comic book stuff, and when he did Automata Pia,

who was played by, first season of Arrow, the

guy who played Gunn and Buffy, he plays a character,

I forget his name. Oh, J. August Richards is

the actor's name. Yeah, August Richards. His

character is supposedly based off a character

that Kevin Smith came up with called Automata

Pia in the Arrow comic book. Okay. He speaks

all of his things that he's doing. So if he fires

a gun, he goes bang, stuff like that. But you

would get interesting stuff like that in Kevin

Smith if he was writing it. But when it comes

to directing, it doesn't even matter. I could

direct these. This is according to Kevin Smith.

We could go on the set and direct these. He says,

essentially, I just give him notes like, why

don't you try to do it this way? And that's it.

When it comes to movies, yes, the director has

a lot of power. But on TV, they don't do nothing.

So if it's a Kevin Smith directed episode, you're

never going to tell unless Kevin Smith shows

up and goes, hey. I'm Silent Bob. Yeah. And not

that anyone actually listens to this podcast,

but I do have to correct you. Gun is an angel,

not Buffy. Wait. Oh, yeah, right, right, right,

right. I'm sorry. The Buffyverse. Sorry. Yes,

the Buffyverse, yes. The Buffyverse. My apologies.

I was going to say Deathlock, but nobody watches

Agents of S .H .I .E .L .D., so. Agents of shit.

What are you talking about? And I do remember

him because I've only seen the first season,

like the first seven episodes of the first season

of Agents of Shit. So I just can't. Better than

any humans. Continue. Where can the people find

you online, sir? Trying to be DJV. You can also

find all the stuff that we do on SimplicityReviews

.net. You can search SimplicityReviews on iTunes,

Stitcher, TuneIn, YouTube, all that good stuff.

Awesome. I am at TFG and Mike on Twitter. Follow

at Geekcast Radio on Twitter. Check out Remote

Control on Facebook as well as Geekcast Radio

Network. As always, go to geekcastradio .com.

We have a new website coming. I don't know exactly

when, but it's being worked on as we speak. Join

us next time for The Flash Season 2 and Arrow

Season 4. I honestly don't know who I'm having

as a co -host for that episode because DJ has

almost ripped up his contract because he's like,

I don't want to be on the later ones. Where's

my own show? I'm holding you ransom. It's a blackmail

of the highest order. Okay, Donnie Wahlberg.

I'm Donnie Wahlberg. Wait, what? Keep fighting

over the remote control, folks. We'll catch you

next time here on Remote Control. Donnie Wahlberg.

What? See, I recast you as a white guy. I got

whitewashed by Donnie Wahlberg. Come on. I could

have said Lieutenant Dan. Lieutenant Dan? Oh,

God. So funny. On the Simplistic Reviews podcast,

we talk movies. We talk TV. We talk... Hello,

Julie, what the heck are you doing? Trying to

make our spot sound more exciting by adding explosions.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you could have got the

point across with sound effects, not the real

thing. Car, car. Download this show on iTunes

or at simplisticreviews .blogspot .com. I'm sure

your insurance company will cover that. No, they

won't. No, they probably won't. Yeah, nope, that's

not gonna happen. Guys, he's in the corridor.

Gideon, could you just, like, not tell him that

we were here? Of course. I will accept any command

given to me by you. Barry! Come on, we gotta

get out of here. Wait, wait, wait. Why would

you accept my commands? Because you created me.

You've been tuned in to Remote Control, the Geekcast

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