Planet of the Apes Retrospective: Planet of the Apes 1968

hey this is steve bloom and you are listening

to the geek cast radio network hello and welcome

to episode 249 of the cinema geeks i'm one of

your cinema geeks after a solo and joining me

as usual is the comic concierge hello dan hey

uh we we're not doing western today is that No,

the scenery is very different for this one, Dan.

Although they're still crossing the wasteland.

There's still a lot of people on horseback. You

might be able to fit it in there. If you squint

enough, it'll be a western. Yeah, there's like

a version of... people on horses and whatnot.

Yeah. So we're not covering Westerners today,

y 'all. Sorry if you're been enjoying our Western

retrospective, but we'll have more Western content

for you to listen to in other episodes. So just

keep an eye out on the feed, but we're, we're

doing something else. I guess call it counter

-programming against ourselves. I don't know.

Just in case there's folks out there that don't

like Westerns, we decided to give people alternative

listening, viewing options while we go through

our Western retrospective. Dan, what are we,

what are we talking about today? And what are

we starting? We're starting a new franchise retrospective.

I figure we're doing a genre one, so we'll do

the counter -programmer, so it's a franchise

one. And since we're doing Western, let's go

to the opposite end and do science fiction. So

we're going to look at the Planet of the Apes

films, starting with the original, going up to

the most recent. We've talked about them here

and there throughout our time. But we've never

done a full retrospective. We've done other retrospectives

of different franchises. I think the last one

we did was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. So intrigued

going into this. Do you how much I think we talked

about it previously, but you've seen all the

Planet of the Apes movies, if I'm not mistaken,

right? Yeah. So about I'm guessing 15 years ago,

which I believe is the 15 year anniversary this

year of. The most recent beginning of the newer.

series so i think rise of the planet apes came

out in 2011 if my math does me correct that's

15 years ago so as we were getting ready for

those four films i had complete blind spots at

that point to the original five five plus the

2001 i'd never seen anything planet of the apes

when it was getting ready for that 2011 release

and i remember seeing the trailer for the 2011

film and it piqued my interest enough where I

was like, hey, this is a reason, an excuse for

me to franchise for the first time in movie form.

I had seen bits and pieces, I think, of some

of the TV series, which came out in 1974 -ish,

I believe. And I had some cousins. I'm the youngest

of a lot of cousins. I don't know how many. I'm

guessing there's over 20 of us, and I'm definitely

the youngest by far. And so most of the time

where we had family get togethers where I was,

you know, with aunts and uncles or grandparents

and things like vein and that style. And I remember

playing with those planet of the apes action

figures and maybe seeing just minor bits and

pieces of the TV series, but I definitely had

never seen the movie. So I took that excuse in

2011 and we watched my, uh, Amanda and I, my

wife and I watched all of the films. So we watched

the five in the original series and then we watched

the Marky Mark because we don't call him Mark

Wahlberg. uh 2001 film as well leading up to

you know obviously that 2011 release of rise

of the planet of the apes and i think you know

dan mentioned that we've talked a little bit

about some of them in over the years and that

would be like the 2011 series right like we've

we've talked a little bit about rise and dawn

and maybe even war i don't remember if we ever

talked about that one or not but we definitely

talked about those first two i don't know if

we've ever really talked about the original five

or the 2001 remake so i've seen them all once

and i've seen rise and dawn and war a couple

times i think i've seen rise like three or four

times which is very rare for me like for those

that have listened to me over the years i'm not

a big movie re -watcher just because for some

reason my brain has a hard time like justifying

watching a movie i've already seen versus one

that i haven't which is a weird thing but there's

definitely some films that i'll watch more than

once and especially finding that out now that

i have a daughter that like you know going back

and watching some of them multiple times outside

of like your holiday standards is fun sometimes

so i've definitely seen rise the most i've only

seen the original the first six the original

five and the and the extra one i've only seen

each of those one time and it was 15 years ago

so i was interested now because the first watch

was before i seen i had seen any of the newer

for and now that i've seen those going back i'm

interested to see like what else i notice or

pick up on and i think it's a fun a fun thing

to do now in retrospect to go back to watch those

so what's your experience with uh all the 10

films so i've seen the original like i can't

it was very long time ago uh i don't remember

it might have been around the same time as rise

or so just because i think it was just going

through classics and was one i haven't seen But

it's been more than a decade. But the rest of

the originals, like the sequels, I have not seen.

I have seen the classic Tim Burton one. I actually

saw that in theaters back in the day. Yeah. I

still have not gotten my money back for that.

But maybe I'd be actually intrigued to go back

to that to see maybe is it as bad or is it overhated?

I'm curious. But the new films, although I haven't

seen the most recent new film, like the trilogy

before that, though, I have huge admiration for.

It's like I love those movies so much. You have

rewatched them a number of times. And I'm really

still excited to go back and see them in order

and seeing if like with the knowledge of all

the originals, do I see things that I haven't

seen before? And just excited to talk about them

because I do think there's a lot to go over with

them. Looking forward to dive it into this franchise.

It's one I have some admiration for. I've read

some of the comics as well. Something about this

world I've always found intriguing and part of

what inspired this retrospective. So looking

forward to diving in and seeing what it's like.

I think another thing too, I almost watched these

all again at one point because I did get the

pass. When War for the Planet of the Apes came

out in 2017, I did the, I think AMC or some other

theaters were doing it where they were going

to show the first two and then they would go

right into the premiere of the new one. So you

could basically watch all three of them back

to back. And I don't remember if that was successful

or if one of them wasn't playing. I think that's

the one where like the first one didn't start

right. And then they're like, oh, you can go

see something else and then come back for the

other two. I don't know. It messed up the whole

thing a little bit, but I do remember seeing,

I believe the 2014 one I did get to see right

leading up to the 2017 one, you know, in the

same seat in the theater. I think something happened

with the first one or something where I didn't

get to see all three back to back. And I think

that they did that from something I watched.

I believe they did that for the originals too.

Like there was a way for you to watch. all of

them together i don't know if it was leading

up to an actual premiere of one of them or if

it was just like a later thing where they're

like hey you can come to the theater and watch

all five or whatever number of them you could

do at that point but i think that was the thing

as well just the last thing i wanted to say before

we kind of get into this one is way before 2011

i i had played with action figures and whatnot

but my childhood self who was not bright um i

always viewed not that i am now but i always

viewed these films as like something you couldn't

take serious like it was a bunch like the kid

in me was like this is super weird like there's

a bunch of like talking walking ape men and like

to me that was like uh represented a portion

of science fiction that was just like so fantastical

and crazy that like it's nothing to take serious

and like i will say that i think there's and

we'll see as we go through if you share this

or not but there's a lot of deeper aspects and

elements of these films that i think my younger

self should be slapped around a little bit for

thinking that there wasn't something to take

serious as much as it's like masquerading as

this crazy science fiction fantastical world

like i think there's more to it than that and

i'm mad that my my younger self didn't give it

enough credit yeah but all right so we're gonna

do what we normally do we're gonna let dan kind

of lay the groundwork for the beginning of this

franchise and then we're gonna come back after

watching re -watching the original 1968 Planet

of the Apes film, and we'll come back and give

you our thoughts after that. So, Dan, take it

away. Damn you, you damn dirty podcasters. As

we begin our Planet of the Apes retrospective

with a look at the original Planet of the Apes

from 1968. In the film, astronaut George Taylor

and three other astronauts travel through space

aboard a ship that's been traveling near the

speed of light. They eventually crash land on

an unknown planet in the distant future. taylor

and the surviving crew explore the planet and

soon discover it is actually inhabited by intelligent

talking apes gorillas chimpanzees and even orangutans

who have built an advanced society there are

humans but they are treated as primitive new

animals who are unable to speak taylor is captured

along with other humans because he can speak

and demonstrate intelligence he becomes a scientific

curiosity but also a threat to ape society Two

sympathetic chimpanzee scientists, Zira and Cornelius,

become fascinated with him and begin to help

him. Taylor eventually escapes with Zira and

Cornelius and discovers that the planet's history

is not what it appears to be. He learns that

the Forbidden Region, known as the Forbidden

Zone, contains the remains of an early human

civilization. taylor along with his companion

nova travel into the forbidden zone and he encounters

the shocking remains of an old civilization he

finally realizes the horrifying truth this is

not an alien planet this is in fact earth although

now it's seen as a landmark movie in a science

fiction classic 20th century fox was not convinced

planet of the apes could work considering the

cost involved To convince the studio, producer

Arthur Jacobs arranged a test screening in 1966

using early versions of the eight makeup. Charlton

Heston played the astronaut, and even Edward

G. Robinson was brought in as Dr. Zaius. The

test convinced Fox that the concept could actually

work. Makeup designer John Chambers, who's really

the MVP of this movie, and his team had great

faces that weren't just convincing. They had

to allow the actors to talk, smile, frown, laugh,

and even show emotion through layers of prosthetics.

The movie spent about $1 million on makeup, roughly

17 % of the entire budget. 78 makeup artists

worked on the production. Chambers received a

special Academy Award for his achievement. You

know you're doing something right when they create

an award just for you. The original screenplay

was written by Ron Sterling, the creator of The

Twilight Zone. His version, though, was a much

more expensive and elaborate idea with an ape

civilization set in the future. Although you

can now read that story in graphic novel form.

The studio basically said, no, we can't do that.

It's too expensive. Screenwriter Michael Wilson

was brought in to rewrite it. One of the major

cost -saving decisions was to make the ape civilization

much more primitive rather than building the

expensive futuristic city. With multiple screenwriters,

there's been some debate regarding who exactly

deserves credit for this final twist. In Serling's

original screenplay, it does have this actual

liberty revelation, but some credit Wilson for

reworking what exactly we saw in the film. Either

way, the original draft did have the idea that

the astronauts would discover this is in fact

Earth. A lot of the movie's outdoor locations

were filmed in Southern California, particularly

areas around Malibu in the Fox Ranch. This helped

so much when it came to cutting the cost, as

well as making Earth look like an alien world

without having to construct gigantic sets. the

film received a lot of praise when it was first

released critics praised the makeup the production

the design performances and especially the social

commentary it was seen as quite an achievement

especially for the science fiction genre it was

a financial success as well making over 32 million

dollars at the box office and of course that

success even back then meant sequels sequels

we will get to later in those retrospective but

for now back to us to discuss the original planet

of the apes all right dan so we have both had

a chance to watch the planet of the apes from

1968 we've shared all the facts with the listeners

so i guess my question for you this is one that

you had seen previously obviously probably since

then you've watched a bunch of the more modern

ones and now you get to go back and kind of watch

this again this is set in the what year was it

supposed to be it is set and i wrote it down

somewhere just so i didn't screw it up here 3978

yeah so eventually a little a little bit into

the future and uh it's definitely something that

happened a long time ago right like 1968 is a

while ago it's like what almost 60 years ago

coming up soon um and so we're talking about

a science fiction film and effects and things

like that that were done 60 years ago and and

we've had the the fortune of watching what was

possible in the 2011 2014 2017 ones from a technical

standpoint which is obviously a different animal

pun intended so what was it like for you going

back and watching this 1968 version and kind

of what was your what was your thoughts and opinions

on the rewatch of kind of how this whole thing

kind of took off and got off the ground it's

it was interesting going back to this like you

said it's been such a long time and also just

having like more knowledge of the film itself

i think before i watched planet of the apes i

was aware of it i think the first time i heard

about planet of the apes it's probably the simpsons

you know like the classic episode where they

do the the planet of the apes musical uh which

is somehow uh can remember like every word of

that so it's also one of those movies too that

is it's ending it's impossible it's to go in

fresh like you know not knowing the if you are

able to i'm impressed because it was one of those

endings that was like parodied and like homage

so much that Before I watched a second of this

movie, I knew where it was going, which can ruin

it a little bit, perhaps. But going into this,

there was so much within it that I missed. And

it is very clearly made or written by Rod Serling.

And I don't know if you remember, years ago,

we almost did a show. specifically on the twilight

zone and really that's what this is it's it is

very much like the most well -made uh biggest

scope of a twilight zone episode in a lot of

ways it has a lot of those elements that you

would see in the twilight zone you know the science

fiction element uh it really looking at uh kind

of the humanity and especially like this is clearly

like at the bottom at the core of this is the

cold war like you know it's a lot of movies at

this time that was the case that's the case here

i do think you know the you could see say maybe

some of the sets or things like that don't hold

up i think the makeup still is like i don't know

it's still i think done well and it looks fantastic

it holds i think it does hold up it reminds me

of like how well the original teenage mutant

ninja turtles public costumes hold up in the

sense of like you forget like i do forget those

are people in a mask like it they can emote really

well that it doesn't seem like it hurts them

when it comes to communication they don't look

they do look like a cross between like what a

more evolved ape would look like and then of

course you have charlotte henson who is you just

You talk about, you know, you've often bringing

up with your stage back, you know, working on

productions and things like that, people that

play for the back of the room. I don't think

there's anyone that does that more than him.

Maybe he does it a bit too much. But it, of course,

worked because it's got some of the most iconic

movie lines ever. But I was rather intrigued

with, like, there's, like, no, there's very little.

Much of this movie is just people talking in

a room. and you would think that would be like

really boring but it's i find it really intriguing

just the what they're talking about the discussion

like the and what it's um looking at in the sense

of like the development of man uh and like this

push and pull of wanting to advance what not

to advance like the concern of you know man's

being its own destruction and the performances

all around are well rather strong even people

that are in ape suits so i had a really good

time with it i think if anything i liked it even

more than the first time i saw it it's very much

of its era it's you know it's it's maybe you

know is a term that kids love to nowadays it

is a bit cornball but i think it's cornball in

the best of ways but i was curious about what

you think because obviously you've seen much

more of this franchise than i have even you had

the action figures going back to it did it did

it scratch that itch again or did it just seem

like oh this is actually a bit more embarrassing

than i remember no i didn't find it embarrassing

at all and in fact i think it just having 15

more years of just life on this planet and exposure

to different things and just knowledge that comes

with it and just uh hopefully hopefully as the

years pass i'm getting slightly more uh i don't

know if mature is the right word in my viewing

of films and things of that nature hopefully

that never happens 100 but um anyways i think

it's brought out an appreciation for like stuff

that i may not have even like noticed or understood

or latched onto the first time around like i

think the first time around like you are watching

the spectacle right like you are trying to figure

out how this is going to work with people walking

around looking like apes and and you're you're

you don't know the classic ending and you don't

know how things are going to go and like it's

all more about like just being on or on along

for the ride i feel like maybe the first time

you watch this film I think on a rewatch, especially

after seeing the modern ones, because the modern

ones do a lot of this, right? Like the modern

ones have a lot of commentary on a variety of

deep topics, like which we'll get to when we

get to those films. I think some of that may

have been lost on me. The first viewing that

came out loud and clear this time around, maybe

it's being in a different space politically and

in our country and like just more aware of. the

stupidity of human beings than i was 15 years

ago i feel like i was in a much different headspace

15 years ago dan and much more hope on the human

race i don't know what that's from but yeah and

uh so i i think some of that just like makes

me like appreciate a lot more of what they're

actually doing here i think this film is a fascinating

story so i was able to i have the blu -ray collection

the five film collection of the classics so i

picked that up somewhere along the way so it

has like the the five original films and it's

got quite a bit of special features including

like commentaries and all these other different

things there was a small i was able to watch

two of them so there was a small um feature that

was on the evolution of the apes as this franchise

or this series or concept and then there was

one about the impact of planet of the apes and

there was a documentary that i was going to try

to watch as well i watched the first two they

were each like 20 minutes long or something like

that yeah and then i went ahead and put on what

was uh labeled as a documentary versus a feature

and i started that and then checked the time

on that one well that one was two hours long

so i did not get a chance to watch that yet it

was already pretty late so i'm curious maybe

to watch that at a later point the other reason

i stopped it was because i felt like they were

going to get into more of the other films and

i wanted to try to keep my focus on just this

first film at once but this is a fascinating

story of how this came to be and for those that

like documentaries or like like the behind the

scenes of like how something is made i would

encourage you to kind of like go into this a

little bit because it is a kind of a crazy story

where each part of it it's different than like

modern day where you have a concept of a film

and we always hear this right like somebody's

working on the script and then it gets shelved

and then a year or two later you hear somebody

else's tied to the project and then 17 scripts

later and you know 25 writers later like the

film actually gets made But most of those times,

like, each of those steps in the process is forgotten,

right? Or, like, has very little to do with the

final product. This one's curious because it

goes through a couple different phases, but each

one has an imprint on what becomes the final

product, and I find it somewhat fascinating.

Just for bullet point, like, cliff notes of it,

like, obviously this is based on a novel, loosely

based on a novel by Pierre... i'm going to say

the name wrong bull boule from a novel that he

wrote in 1963 this is the same guy that wrote

the bridge over the river quay and he was somebody

who was a french author who was captured by nazis

in world war ii and imprisoned and and did a

lot of writing somehow while he was in prison

i don't know a lot of the story but that's kind

of like Some of his background, he writes The

Bridge Over the River Kwai and a bunch of other

films and eventually writes the Planet of the

Apes novel, etc. His novel is much different

than what we get on screen because then we have

Rod Serling come in involved, like Dan said,

with the Twilight Zone aspect and he adds a lot

of the elements that he was doing in that. He's

able to take things that he was able to just

do short episodes and things like that and he

had now a feature film like... time to play with

it and so you can definitely feel like his elements

right and then michael wilson gets involved and

michael wilson was also involved with the bridge

over on the river quay with with pierre but this

guy is somebody who was blacklisted during the

mccarthy era of of our history right so like

we have somebody that was like literally captured

by nazis involved we have somebody that was like

part of the blacklisting during the cold war

And then we have like Rod Serling who, you know,

makes a very well known, you know, twilight zone

phenomenon. Right. So it's like crazy how each

one has made an imprint on this film. And like

the original story deals with the apes in a much

more futuristic, futuristic setting, like picture

the apes. But like, instead of the setting we

get here with like this kind of more dystopian

look, picture them in like, Back to the Future

style or the Jetsons style, that's the original

book. They're supposed to be in this super futuristic

modern element where a lot of different things

of scientific development and invention and stuff

are present. They weren't able to do that for

mostly budgetary reasons. At one point, the film

is getting shelved and they only have... they're

the guy that they're going to to try to get it

made like basically is like i can do it but only

if you can make it for like five million um and

they couldn't do that that setting and that's

all that stuff for that amount of money so that

you know eventually they decide to kind of more

dystopian style more primitive like landscape

which obviously like has a big impact on the

film but like it's just a very fascinating history

of this film so if anybody's ever curious i would

seek out like whatever you can as far as documentaries

or or features about that because i think it's

a it's a crazy how each one like one of them

added a lot more political context right like

obviously michael wilson went through the ramifications

of being falsely accused of things and being

blacklisted so that's gonna play a part in kind

of how his impact on the on the screenplay goes

right like that's why you're saying like it feels

like it's from the cold war like he is like you

know what i mean like he's he's definitely has

that as a background. And like you have Rod Serling

who did a lot of stuff where he could take science

fiction and make comments on racism or class

or political things. Right. So like he's used

to doing that and now he gets to do add some

of that to this. So I think it's a much more

fascinating story than I gave it credit for the

first time viewing. And like, you can definitely

see it in the way that they. present the different

species i don't know if that's right species

of apes the different i'm gonna get my kingdom

phylum species thing like mixed up here but like

we have the orangutans and we have the gorillas

and we have the chimpanzees right those are the

three and like you can see that that's like that's

not just happenstance right it's not just by

coincidence that those are the three that we

land on and that each one has very specific hierarchical

like roles within this society right it's also

curious to see i don't know what your take is

on this i haven't quite put this one together

or read enough smart people that talk about planet

of the apes the only female apes are in the chimpanzees

like we don't see any in the orangutans or the

gorillas i don't know i don't remember or i haven't

thought about it enough to know like what the

purpose of that is but there's all these different

layers and elements that i feel like i didn't

appreciate the first time around when it comes

to a lot of this social commentary so like i

was wondering like we know that that's a plays

a part in like the more modern ones like do you

remember that from your first viewing or were

you more keen to like some of the social commentary

that you saw this time around i i definitely

more more aware of especially even with like

the new films and like how we see some of that

with the the roles like the orangutan plays and

and whatnot but yeah it was it was interesting

seeing how the different species i think it's

species right i don't even know you're right

i'm not sure uh uh how that plays out and like

how they're they're categorized and every everyone

has a certain place based upon their um you know

if they're rating 10 if they're a gorilla and

they're kind of with this the system that they're

in And you mentioned about like the original

script and what it was designed to do. Can I

go back to that for a moment? There's actually

a comic book called Planet of the Apes Visionaries.

It's a graphic novel that adapts what like Rod

Serling's original script was designed to look

like. And then, as you mentioned, it's like more

modern times of that era. Like they're in like

a city. And, you know, for example, there's a

scene where instead of like a crosswalk, they're

like monkey bars. Hopefully that's not a derogatory

term for that planet. It's written by Dana Gold,

who is a huge fan of Planet of the Apes, so much

so, I don't know if you've ever seen, but he

actually hosts an actual talk show where he's

dressed up as one of the orangutans from Planet

of the Apes. He's got the whole getup and everything.

I can't think of the name of it, but he's a huge

fan of the franchise, so much so that he does

that. It's pretty good if you like Planet of

the Apes. And it's not like he's only making

Planet of the Apes references. It's just acting

like a normal guy dressed up as. It's pretty

funny. There's some really good ones with Pat

and all as well and a few other people. So definitely

check that out. But also, if you do like, if

you wanted to see what the original idea might

have looked like, the plotting is very similar.

Like the actual plotting, a lot of the key elements

from the use of the doll, like how it plays out.

The only big difference, of course, is that.

When he talks about. Charles Heston's character.

When he talks about flying from another planet.

They're more open to it. Because they're a more

advanced society. So instead of rejecting it.

And saying well that's impossible. So it has

a different. Viewpoint on that. And how it works.

And I think you too. When you mentioned the commentary.

I was much more open to having that knowledge.

And then seeing how it's different within this.

And how it plays out. In the sense of like. the

rules and regulations that they create for the

society. And also knowing that Dr. Zaius, knowing

that Dr. Zaius knows what he knows and just the

games that he's playing. And you can kind of

see that, you know, what he's doing. And I guess

one big question to me, or for me at the end,

or one thing I ponder was, is Dr. Zaius right

in doing what he's doing in the sense of like

making sure that his species doesn't evolve to

the point. they become like the humans do you

think uh it's a something he's doing selfishly

or do you think actually perhaps it might be

the right call it's interesting too right because

that's definitely a theme that this time i picked

up on right away like there's a lot of dialogue

that happens in the beginning uh through narration

or through whatever where charlton heston is

on the ship while you know his crewmates are

already unconscious or under their you know whatever

sleep yeah situation for the whatever any any

there's a lot of kind of fore foreshadowing that

they use through charlton heston's thing that

i might not have been paying as much attention

the first time i you know he talks about feeling

lonely and having a man's ego squashed and he

talks about children starving he talks about

brothers waging war against brothers and wondering

you know if it will still exist in this time

period and like that they even try to do i love

all the clever clever puns but he's talking about

you know will the the people that he comes back

to will they be like a different breed than what

he what he original you know originally knew

and all this stuff but that definitely is something

that you see as a through line right like he

mentions it there as far as brother wage and

war against brother and kind of like humans ability

to destroy themselves or be their own worst enemy

right and then like you get like commenting on

that and not wanting that for him. And then obviously

you get the ending where he's like, obviously

very up spoiler alert for this 60 year old film

that there's no way you don't know the ending

about already. But, um, you know, obviously when

he sees the, what he sees at the end and he's,

you know, pounding the sand and, you know, whatever,

whatever line he used, like, you know, they did

it. They stupid, you know, people, stupid humans.

Yeah. You did, you killed yourselves or you,

you ruined your own world. Just like, you know

he was kind of afraid of so it's definitely a

through line that they they make a point to like

reference multiple times throughout the film

and it does make you question like obviously

humans weren't smart enough to figure it out

right like we had to destroy ourselves and and

so in this in this scenario and so you do start

to think like does he have a point and it It

is also interesting now that we've already seen

the modern films, and I know we'll get to those

and talk about those, but it goes back to something

that's a real strength in, and I'm going to say

the wrong one, so I'm not going to name it, but

one of the ones from the modern trilogy. I won't

count the last one because I know you said you

haven't seen it, but out of the three that you

have seen, it's something that we get there,

right, where it's not as black and white on the

villain, right? Like there's moments in those

films where you understand what the quote unquote

antagonist of those films where he's coming from,

right? Like Koba specifically, like we get where

he's talking about the scars on him and saying

like, you know, man did this and stuff like that,

where he's starting to paint this picture of

like, is Zaius a similar character where. maybe

not as strong and maybe not as gray area but

is there a is there an inkling to yes he's the

antagonist in this and yes he's sort of looked

at as the quote -unquote bad guy but does he

understand something on a different level that

makes you appreciate what he's attempting to

do for his species or is he someone that is just

scared of not having power scared of what could

happen if he doesn't control things or is you

know what i mean like it does give you some interesting

things to wrestle with yeah i agree i think it

i think it at first you go into it you can think

like well dr davis is just the bad guy he's just

you know he's power hungry he's you know he's

doing these things just because like he he's

ignorant into the situation when it's a bit more

complicated than that i think seeing having that

knowledge i think i think it's one of those movies

that does award reward re -watching in in a lot

of ways because because of that seeing that there

is a depth even more depth to the script than

you may think so yeah i agree there's it's intriguing

like And I think, again, like, that's got to,

I mean, I haven't read the original novel, and

maybe that's something I need to do, because

I'm curious, like, how much was that, Roger Sterling,

how much was that, like, within the foundation

of the story that he's coming from? I need to

go and do that, because I'm curious to see, like,

how much, you know, where does he begin, where

does the movie end? But it does feel, like I

said, it feels very, like, having some experience,

more experience with The Twilight Zone, it feels,

like, right akin to, like, what he likes, clearly,

like, within his storytelling, so you could see,

like, why, at the very least, it intrigued him.

What did you think, we talked about, obviously,

Charles and Heston and his performance, but what

did you think about, this is clearly a certain

era of science fiction where it wasn't really...

you know taken all that seriously you think at

this time even like space 2001 space odyssey

hasn't come out yet so usually science fiction

wasn't taken seriously as a genre uh you know

it was it was the super hero movies of its day

where it was um looked as a bit cheesy you know

not the kind of bit almost i don't know what

the words were it wasn't something people looked

at as high art um perhaps but i was curious what

did you think though of just the general performances

of the humans the the apes the the actors what

were your thoughts there so i do like the fact

that apparently in the year 3978 it's totally

okay for you just to smoke on the spaceship like

no no fears of anything else malfunctioning like

that is the most 1968 aspect of this yeah overall

like take away all of the the visual effects

that for like i agree with you i think they hold

up like you think you'd watch this and you'd

be like oh i can tell this is from 1968 the only

thing that told me this was 1968 is smoking in

the spaceship um the haircuts made me too but

yeah yeah i i think the the use of humans is

like very well thought out i think it's very

effective like the fact that we basically start

with a crew of four you're immediately going

to lose one. Like that makes sense. Right. Or

all four of them are going to survive the thing.

Like it's, it's typical science fiction where

like when you go into the cryo sleep or whatever

phrase you use, like it always malfunctions for

at least one person. We know that's going to

happen. It just happens to happen to our quote

unquote Eve of the group who was supposed to

help repopulate, you know, society, which maybe

you should have brought more than one female.

I don't know, but, um, it's going to be kind

of awkward. Cause it's like, she does survive.

It's like, okay. Like, you know like that's a

weird conversation weird failsafe yeah you know

but they did do a great job of making her look

like very creepy yeah so that reminded me of

some star trek stuff where they like they aged

the one doctor and to looking like she's super

old and star trek next generation it was like

it was very creepy so like that was effective

and then you're left with like the three and

it always strikes me like i knew obviously since

i'd already seen it that this was going to happen

but it always kind of struck struck me like the

first time i watched it how little the humans

are going to be together in this film right like

they're almost immediately separated after their

their initial journey and there's some more creepiness

like what they do with i'm going to say the wrong

person um i don't know if it's landon or dodge

dodge dodge is uh dodge is the one that gets

put into the museum yes that is creepy yeah like

that was another creepy thing like you think

like this is like a mainly somewhat i don't know

i don't know what to say family friendly but

it's not like it's not like rated like r is it

like no rated pg something right it was rated

g Okay, rated G. And so you're not expecting

a whole lot. Obviously, they decided to put clothes

on some of the people where I think originally

everybody was going to be naked, or at least

in prototypical 60s fashion or American fashion,

the women were at least going to be naked. And

they decided against that. I think Fox or somebody

said that's not going to survive the censors.

But yeah, what they do with him in the museum

is definitely a creepy look. right like and at

first you don't realize they're going to do it

and then all of a sudden it's just there but

you're kind of surprising with this rated g that

they like the way they show dodge and the way

they show whatever her name is stewart is it's

kind of interesting for g because they're definitely

like i could see that being some nightmare fuel

for like a 10 year old or like a nine year old

or something like that but and then obviously

we get the other guy who you know they perform

brain surgery on which kind of disturbing in

and of itself so like i feel like they used each

one of those in a very effective like impactful

way as far as mr heston goes i thought he filled

the role fairly well you needed somebody with

some chutzpah you needed somebody with some charisma

to carry this as you're you're writing this out

as he's basically going to be the only human

playing against all the rest of the people that

are in ape costumes and makeup and things of

that nature so like you needed someone who could

play that part I thought it was interesting that

they chose someone who was definitely taller

than most of the other actors and actresses that

were involved, which from a visual standpoint

kind of created some interesting dynamics. I

think the only thing that I would have done in

retrospect is just tell him not to laugh at that

one sequence in the beginning -ish. I don't know

where that was, where he does the crazy villain

laugh almost. When they're planting the flag?

yeah when the one dude plants a flag and he looks

back and just laughs like ridiculously like that's

the only part where I was like what are you doing

who didn't cut that and say like hey tone that

down a little bit like outside of that I didn't

really mind it like you know he I think he improvised

some of the most famous lines in this I haven't

looked up all the trivia but I know that that

take your hands off me you dirty ape is not in

the original script like so i don't know if that

just came from him or somebody suggested it but

like he has some great lines right like he has

some classic charlton heston like lines and obviously

he gets a little animated at the end when he's

pounding the sand and whatnot but like i i was

fine with all of it like i was the laugh was

the only thing i was kind of like okay i could

have dealt without the laugh but other than that

i thought they did a pretty good job with and

i thought he did good acting it was funny i think

they said that like one of the actors that was

I think it was whoever played Zira. That would

be Kim Hunter. I guess Kim Hunter came up to

him at one point without makeup on and he had

no idea who she was. And he was like, oh, can

I help you? Or like, who are you? Or whatever.

I don't know. I've been the person that you've

been acting with in this movie. You just don't

know. Do you think they were real apes? I thought

they were just people look like that now. What

do you feel like about the humans? I mean, I

agree. Well, I mean, all the, you know, Roddy

McDowell and Maurice Evans, like Kim Hunter,

the actors that were in the ape costumes, like,

huge credit to them because that could not have

been easy to do. The walk they did was crazy

good. Yeah. So I thought, like I said, you do

forget that they're... Not that you forget that

they're apes, but you buy into them, I think,

right away. They don't overdo it in the sense

of where it can get a little corny. I was watching

this movie, Cat People, and part of it is people

pretending to be cats, and it can look a bit

too much, so it looks a bit ridiculous. Here,

I felt like it was a good balance of they weren't

human, but they also weren't too cartoonish um

and charlotte heston is big he's always been

a big actor it's it's who he is and it obviously

works right because the sense of like his lines

like you mentioned are hugely iconic and people

know them even people like i said like i knew

these lines before i've ever seen i saw the film

so uh i think it it's fitting for the time i

think for some you know if like i could see for

younger viewers or people who have never watched

If you love the new films, you go back to it,

I could see it maybe turning some people off,

but I think you just kind of have to settle into

what he was doing, especially if you've ever

seen him in things like Ben -Hur or Ten Commandments.

That was the performance you gave, because you

were acting to everyone, and he certainly did

that, for sure. For some reason, I got a kick

out of the way that the apes walked, especially

the chimpanzees, and I also loved the fact that

the boots... were like not human boots like they

had individual like i think it was like two spots

i don't know it was like it was eight boots like

yeah i appreciate that they cared about those

details and they kind of have those shoes well

shoes now right like the the web shoes i don't

know there's still a thing with their they're

like there were you know there are crocs before

crocs agree yeah it was also really great too

is like watching looking at like set photos of

like people on set and the ape costumes because

it's you know seeing like dude just like hanging

out smoking cigarettes like looking at a tea

like looking at a newspaper and stuff it's it's

pretty funny so i guess i said that there was

like a running joke where they always tried to

give all of them bananas for lunch with their

lunch because they had to stay in costume for

like everything yeah because it took so long

to get it together that like even on breaks and

lunches i think they basically had to keep their

costume on Yeah, I mean, it probably took hours.

That's what I said. Being able to act and not

just suffocate. What did you think of the camera

work? They use a lot of different techniques

in this film to try to... I believe what they

were going for is the idea of creating disorientation

or like... i don't know it's not shaky cam but

like it feels like they have handheld cameras

and they do they do different tricks and different

techniques with the cameras to make it come across

differently like whether it's disorientate or

disoriented or whether it's kind of like first

person or point of view type so i don't know

what did you think of all the different tactics

that they use to like create a different feel

from uh from a visual standpoint with the camera

work that was effective especially if i remember

them doing like almost like false zooms or like

like where they would kind of zoom in zoom out

a different like when you first saw those i don't

even know what they were statues i don't know

what you would call them but like the those things

of like the the all the difference yeah those

like the way like we first come across those

or the first comic or obviously the final shot

of course like how that plays out so i thought

that was effective in the sense of like you said

being disoriented or getting you in the mindset

of these individuals who are kind of lost within

this world and don't know you know what they're

doing or like we know don't have a concept of

actually where they're at i thought that was

well done for sure yeah it also had a quite a

bit of academy award success like and did good

on the box office i think his budget was 5 .8

million they thought they needed to make it for

five and it made over 30 million um for that

time period which again 1968 style um you know

has 86 on on rotten tomatoes it's uh on a lot

of the different accolades right like afi like

it's got nominated for a lot of different things

like yeah there's not you know whether it be

thrills or movies or heroes or quotes the score

the things like that you know academy award as

well like it's got what did it get it um academy

awards for best costume design original score

i know makeup wasn't a category there but they

like retroactively i think in 81 or somewhere

in the 80s like gave the guy the the makeup outstanding

makeup award as like an honorable one so like

um like we said all the makeup and all that kind

of stuff worked for me like i think it held up

fairly well for sure What did you think about

the music? Like we said, it got Best Original

Score. Is that something you noticed as you watched?

Honestly, no. When I was watching it, it didn't

really impact me in that way. That often happens,

though. Me too. I bet if I heard it separately,

in the sense of, oh, that's one of the apes,

but as I was watching it, it didn't necessarily

register all that much, personally. The other

thing that I didn't really put together... In

kind of retrospect, this came kind of more about

the impact of the film overall, that little feature

that I was watching. A lot of times, Star Wars

gets a lot of credit for creating the boom of

merchandising when it came to franchises and

films. But really, it's Planet of the Apes. This

is pre -Star Wars, and they merchandised the

ever -loving crap out of this film. we obviously

get a tv series right we also get an animated

series we get obviously the spinoffs but it was

much more than just the action figures like this

was the first like film franchise that was everything

the lunch boxes the like you know everything

that you could do in in every way like it unlocks

something that hollywood like i guess hadn't

figured out yet and really paved the way for

what we see a lot during our lifetime right where

we kind of grew up in that era where that was

just standard right like a big blockbuster or

franchise film comes out and like that's what

you're gonna get from whether it be star wars

or indiana jones or you know all the different

things teenage mutant ninja turtles we talked

about when we did that retrospective so i guess

a lot of that kind of owes a little bit to like

what they did here back in 1968 and on into the

70s with the planet of the apes and that's something

i kind of never had put together in my head for

some reason yeah it's kind of crazy too because

like i couldn't imagine you know you think you

mentioned this is you know this is rated g and

this was like just we had the cartoon like i

don't know it if kids like it doesn't seem to

even be a movie that kids would all that love

maybe it's just like the idea of it and like

that's what caught their interest because like

i mentioned a lot of this is just people talking

there are some action sequences here and there

but it's barely an action film like there's maybe

like kind of like what to chase sequences a little

bit but uh i think it has the benefit of star

wars right like it's something that at that point

people just hadn't been able to experience like

these other worlds in in movies and in in this

way like outside of what we get a little bit

i guess in star trek like from a movie standpoint

like had anybody been able to like we talked

about like you know the way we think about comic

book especially marvel and dc films like you

know a lot of people didn't really like find

those something that you could take serious until

you know later on like midway through our lifetime

where we're all sudden it becomes something that's

much more right it's not something that's just

like and i feel like science fiction was kind

of doing that in a way during this time period

like it wasn't a thing yet it was something that

was kind of look you know you mentioned like

not high art like all this other stuff and like

it made me just scratch an itch like it was so

different for people that they almost don't realize

that it's not very action -packed and it's not

very it's about like yeah we have gorillas riding

horses and and we have some chase sequences but

most of the chase most of the action is just

them throwing nets over things repeatedly like

i think we see that try to occur like six times

throughout the film and and you know it's interesting

like outside of the beginning where there's really

that kind of capture sequence where they're first

appearing to try to get that tribe of humans

like you don't get a lot of action but maybe

people were just so enamored with we've never

seen anything like this where we've become accustomed

to it in our generation. That's good. That's

about, that's true. I mean, I think that's, I

think that that's part of it too. And just the

idea of like seeing people as apes is the concept

of it. I think that does go a long way. So yeah.

Have you ever watched any of that? Oh, go ahead.

The cartoon. I, I, I'm trying to remember now.

And like when I saw and remembered now that there

was a TV series and. animated series I think

they're short like I think the TV series is only

like I want to say like 14 episodes and like

the cartoons only 13 or something like that so

now I'm intrigued to go back because I'm interested

if I watch them will it remind me that I've seen

it or will it be like I've never definitely never

seen this before in my life like I'm curious

and I have heard that the TV series is a little

bit different than what we're going to get with

these five films like I think it goes a little

bit of a different route so I'm intrigued maybe

after all of this to check out a few episodes

of both the TV series and the animated series.

Because I honestly can't remember if I've seen

anything from it or not. But I'll definitely

be intrigued. Have you seen anything from either

one? No, I've not. I honestly didn't know there

was a cartoon until you just mentioned it. But

I haven't watched either. Like I said, I've read

a good amount of the comics, which I'll be doing

a video on soon. But I've never watched the...

the cartoon or honestly didn't even know there

was a tv show as well so that's yeah so the tv

show was from 1974 and that was just titled planet

of the apes and i do remember it existing but

it's only 14 episodes it aired on cbs um so that

would be something that wouldn't take a whole

lot of your time if it's available somewhere

i don't know i guess it's like it's even out

there maybe and yeah and the animated series

is called return to the planet of the apes That

was a 1975 animated Saturday morning cartoon

series. And that was only 13 episodes that aired

on NBC. So I'm sure with all of the modern stuff

that came out that they have this somewhere.

Yeah. Available. Maybe not streaming anymore.

Maybe it might even sometimes like stuff like

that might just even be on YouTube, you know?

So, yeah, absolutely. So I'm intrigued to kind

of maybe dabble with that afterwards. I did have

one little quick, interesting trivia for you.

Because I find it hard to believe, but I don't

know if you saw this or not in anything you saw,

but Ingrid Bergman was originally offered the

role of Zira. Really? And apparently in her memoirs

or in her interviews or whatever, she claimed

that it was one of the biggest regrets of her

career that she turned it down. Interesting.

And that she would have loved doing this to buck

all of the... the last person you would expect

to be in a monkey costume and makeup doing a

movie for like everything that she kind of class

and you know her pedigree and stuff like that

so yeah that would have been interesting that

for sure anything else that you wanted to talk

about that you haven't got a chance with the

original planet no definitely looking forward

to the next one because it'll be a brand new

watch for me do you think are you surprised that

this led to spin -offs and are you intrigued

as to which direction the spin -offs go i i am

a bit surprised because the way it ends like

it's i mean it's a like a good unsatisfying not

unsatisfying is the right word and it's open

-ended ending in the way because it's like it's

like oh wow like it it reshapes everything so

but it doesn't necessarily say like oh there's

more story to come so i'm interested and i know

I don't think Charlton Heston is in the sequels,

if I could be mistaken. So I don't know what

direction. I'm not going to spoil it for you.

Yeah. But yeah, it is certainly surprising. Because

also, there wasn't a whole lot of movies that

got sequels like this, per se. So yeah, we're

really looking forward to seeing how good or

bad they are. Because I've heard very mixed things.

i know it doesn't i don't know if you've ever

seen where they put like their little lists online

whether it's memes or or whatever like or different

little graphics where they talk about like the

best sequels of all time i don't know if i've

ever seen any of the planet apes listed amongst

any of the greatest sequels of all time or whatever

like all of them make money i will say that much

all of them make money at the box office So there

is that. Not all of them have the same budget

as the first one did. And the first one did not

have a large budget. So I will also throw that

out there. But I'm intrigued to see kind of how

this progresses. I'm very intrigued on your take

on all of these. I have different ones that I

remember liking more than others. uh as i went

through like i had my favorites and the ones

i really liked and the ones that maybe i didn't

like so i'm intrigued to see how that lines up

with what you feel and i'm also like super intrigued

like we talked about now that we've already seen

the modern ones to see what else we kind of pick

up as we kind of go through here and as it leads

us into like some of the the future viewing so

hopefully everybody else will continue along

and listen as we make through this journey as

well And the next one is Beneath the Planet of

the Apes, correct? That's what we'll be doing

next week. This is the only one that there's

a two -year gap. All the other ones come out

in consecutive years. So the original was 1968.

That's never a good sign either. We go from 1968

to 1970, and then 71 has one, 72 has one, 73

has one. You've got to get them out there before

people realize they're not good. And then I believe

74 was the TV series. And then 75 was the animated

series. So there was new planet of the apes every

year. If you were involved in the early 70s,

it was the MCU before the MCU. So there you go.

Exactly. Exactly. So, all right. So tune in for

more planet of the apes talk. If you were enjoying

our Western talk, we will also be sprinkling

in more episodes that cover films in our Western

retrospective. So you can either. join us on

both journeys or pick a lane and join us for

one. It's completely up to you. That's how it

pays to be the listener, I guess. So, um, if

you want to stay in contact with us, you can

search Dan out on all the social medias at comic

concierge and search me out at optimist solo.

The show is the cinema geek. So you can do that

or the cinema geeks or cinema geek cast, or if

it's on Facebook, Dan, what do they got to search

out? Uh, cinema geeks podcast. It should show

up. All right, so that does it for this episode.

Tune in next time for another chance to listen

to more of The Cinema Geeks.