Planet of the Apes Retrospective – Beneath the Planet of the Apes

Hi, I'm Phil Lamar, voice of Green Lantern and

Justice League, and you're listening to the Geekcast

Radio Network. Hello and welcome to episode 252

of the Cinema Geeks. I am one of your Cinema

Geeks Optimist Solo, and joining me as usual

is the Comic Concierge. How are you doing, Dan?

I'm doing good. Looking forward to this one.

It should be interesting. For the record now,

every time I say the episode number, I'm going

to smile to myself and nobody else will know.

We haven't graduated to the visuals that all

the modern kids are doing these days. We don't

do the visuals. We still do the numbers. That's

all you know. We refuse to graduate into the

current time. We are back and we are not talking

about Westerns today. We're jumping into our

other retrospective that we have going on. More

monkey business. We're dealing with the next

in the series of the Planet of the Apes film

series. We're currently making our way through

the five originals. So we already covered the

1968 Planet of the Apes, and now we are on to

the 1970 Beneath the Planet of the Apes. So before

we get the facts for this one, Dan, remind everybody

what your experience was going into this with

Beneath the Planet of the Apes. it's really easy

i have none so i i have only saw the original

the these next four or whatever i have not seen

it's so satisfying for me that like we flip the

script between the westerns and these because

most of the westerns you've at least seen once

not all of them but there's a bunch that you've

seen once that i have complete blind spots for

and i have actually seen all the planet of the

apes films so i get to be on that side of things

it has been 15 years ish since i i watched this

one so uh it was right when the modern series

was about to come out we we binged all of the

all the planet apes films like i said in the

last episode so i have seen it my uh kind of

setting the stage for this though was thinking

back on 15 years ago i knew what the original

1968 film was and then the other four i could

not remember which was which so like i couldn't

remember what order it went in or what happened

in each one like i know as i watch each one i'm

going to remember it and it's going to be like

yep that's this one but like if you asked me

like what each one was i wouldn't have been able

to like put them in the right order and like

yeah so it is still somewhat interesting for

me to go to view each one because i'm like which

one is this again so So after this time, I think

it'll be more firm in my mind of how the story

goes and what order. But before we get into our

thoughts on Beneath the Planet of the Apes, Dan

is going to give us some facts about Beneath

the Planet of the Apes. So Dan, take it away.

Well, you can't say it doesn't live up to its

name. We continue our look at the Planets of

the Apes franchise with a review of Beneath the

Planet of the Apes from 1970, directed by...

Ted Post. The film picks up shortly after the

first movie, where Taylor, the human astronaut

played by Charlton Heston, disappears while exploring

the Earth. The story then follows Brent, played

by James Francescus, another astronaut who's

actually been sent to find Taylor and the other

astronauts that were on the mission with him,

and he discovers the same strange future Earth.

After his ship crashes, Brent encounters Nova,

Taylor's human companion, and eventually learns

that the intelligent apes now control much of

the planet. Brent is initially horrified by the

ape civilization and eventually meets the sympathetic

chimpanzee scientists, Dina and Cornelius, who

are investigating the disappearance of Taylor.

Brent and Nova travel to the Forbidden Zone outside

the ape city, searching for clues. There, Brent

discovers something even stranger. Taylor is

still alive. He's been imprisoned by this mysterious

inhabitants of the underground ruins. Brent discovers

that beneath the ruins of what once was New York

City lives a hidden society of mutated humans.

These people possess telepathic abilities and

worship an ancient weapon known as the Alpha

Omega Bomb. The mutants are descended from humans

who survived the nuclear destruction of civilization.

Their mutation and telepathic powers have allowed

them to survive underground. Meanwhile, the ape

military, led by the aggressive General Ursus,

has decided to invade the Forbidden City. The

apes don't really know what's there, but they

believe the territory could contain valuable

resources. The ape army marches in the Forbidden

Zone, eventually discovering this underground

city. Brett, Nova, and Taylor become caught between

the two sides. Brett and Taylor realize that

the Alpha Omega Bomb is extraordinarily powerful

and could destroy the entire planet. It spirals

into violence, Nova is killed, and Brett and

Taylor manage to seize the bomb from the mutants.

Taylor is mortally wounded during the confrontation,

with the ape army closing in and the planet on

the brink of destruction. Taylor realizes that

there's only one way to prevent the bomb from

falling into anyone's hands. As Eli dying, Taylor

activates the Alpha Omega Bomb. The weapon detonates,

destroying the Earth. The film ends with the

implication that humanity's ultimate fate is

not simply to lose the planet to the apes. The

planet is destroyed because humans and apes continue

to fight over the remnants of civilization that

has already been destroyed itself. Charles Heston

was actually not super enthusiastic about returning

after the enormous success of Planet of the Apes.

He generally disliked sequels and apparently

felt that Taylor's story had already been told.

He eventually agreed to appear, but under the

circumstances that he negotiated a very small

role and wanted Taylor killed off. One account

also says that he gave all of his salary to charity.

The nuclear bomb ending wasn't simply something

the filmmakers came up with at the last minute.

During the production, Fox executives Richard

Z. Zinnick suggested incorporating an idea associated

with Heston, a weapon powerful enough to destroy

the entire Earth. The result was the Alpha Omega

bomb. The first Planet of the Apes movie cost

around $5 million to make, where this was made

for around half of that. You can kind of tell.

The reason for that was because Fox was in serious

financial trouble after expensive films like

Star and Hello Dolly poorly. Roddy McDowell,

who played Cornelius, was unavailable because

he was directing another movie. The filmmakers

instead used archival footage of McDowell at

the beginning, and then David Watson took over

as Cornelius in the actual movie itself. But

Neath was generally viewed as a major step down

for the franchise. Many complained that it just

took the sophistication of the original and kind

of ruined it and made just a generic action picture.

Variety called it hooky and slapdash, while the

New Yorker thought the movie was trying to cram

enormous ideas into an adventure story. Despite

the bad reviews, it was a financial success,

making $19 million on a $2 .5 million budget,

so... you know we got more of these but what

didn't kevin and i think of this well back to

us to discuss all right thank you for that so

those are the facts and now come the opinions

right like that's how this works so uh so dan's

laid out all the facts about this so we know

you know we're in the 70s now we know the cast

of characters and kind of the rough overview

of this so we had fairly high opinions of the

1968 original charlton heston vehicle planet

of the apes dan i feel like we both were yeah

fairly positive on that one and i was curious

as you watched first off as you finished the

original planet of the apes and you know that

there's four more like were you curious how that

was going to work out because the first one ends

somewhat not it doesn't put like it doesn't close

the door 100 i guess yeah but it ends in a way

that you kind of feel like that story's done

right certainly and then there's another four

so what were you thinking did you have any ideas

of where this might go and then as you've seen

it were those uh thoughts of where it might go

anywhere near what actually happens So like I

had somewhat because I remember I've seen like

flipped on cable and seen a couple of the movies.

I know there's like one that's like present day.

I think I can't remember. Maybe we'll get to

it. I'm not sure. But also know there was a TV

show, too. I don't know. So I really didn't know

where exactly it would go beyond just like things

I heard when the new ones came out and people

saying like, oh, that's a reference to this film,

that film. And so I had no idea. As I mentioned,

I thought Charlton Heston wasn't even in this

because I thought I heard that he didn't do any

of the sequels and he kind of is in this one.

So I had no idea what to expect, where it was

going. I mean, and it was beneath the planet

of the apes. And my thought going into it, it's

like, oh, it's going to be like another ape civilization

underneath as well. Maybe they're more advanced

or something like that. Did not expect mutated

humans with, you know, the craziest costumes

and because i think this didn't have much story

or have much of a direction it repeats a lot

of what happens before we literally get a character

that's kind of just like charles heston's character

2 .0 but not as intriguing kind of going through

the motions of what happened before uh and it

made me wonder like i thought like oh is you

see heston done is he's not even showing up at

all but he comes back near near the end of course

so And you can certainly see, like, I know the

budget in this was, like, cut in half. And you

see that. The makeup is good, but not nearly

as good. It doesn't have, it doesn't ask, I think,

nearly as many interesting questions. Because

we kind of did that already. It felt like a really

average version, like, episode. I haven't watched

a lot of original Star Trek. But I got, like,

that type of vibe from it. Like, with the acting

and the special effects. It felt very 60s TV.

uh and and not a good episode per se you know

it's not it's not the there are things there

that i was hoping for like the the gorilla general

like oh like he could be an interesting character

but that doesn't really go anywhere it's not

the worst thing i've ever seen but i did not

think it was very good or really had much to

offer beyond just the fact it's just existing

in the same world as the other one i feel like

the first one has somewhat of an ending and when

you're thinking like where do we go from here

like there was things they could have done like

what happens to taylor what happens to nova you

know what now that we know this is on earth did

anything else survive you know what happened

to the earth that we know what happened to humanity

and there could be this whole like we know we've

seen the people that exist in the first one right

like they don't have the intelligence they can't

speak etc but like they could have gone a direction

where they are searching for some other sign

of humanity and some other part of the globe

or something like trying to see like is there

anything left for us right like or Or maybe we

start to build our own society somewhere else

now that I can teach the rest of the humans how

to speak and how to do stuff. I don't know. It

seemed like there was other things that could

have happened. Instead of retreading two -thirds

of the same movie and then in the other third

going so completely off the rails that it loses

any sense of being a part of the same world that

we just retread. like you said exactly what i

was going to say like this is a bad episode of

the original star trek series like this is as

if they tried to meld the two worlds the weird

thing is in my very very brief research because

i didn't really have the time or the uh interest

in researching this film very much because i

didn't know what kind of returns that that would

bring to me but there is a comic dan or a miniseries

from IDW in 2015. And it is called Planet of

the Apes, The Primate Directive. In this miniseries,

the crew of the original series, Enterprise,

follows a Klingon ship into the universe of Beneath

the Planet of the Apes, which the Klingons are

trying to use as a way to get around some treaty

by expanding their empire, blah, blah, blah.

Both crews of the Enterprise and Klingon ship

become behind the scenes characters in the events

of beneath the planet of the apes oh really i

have to read this comic it's probably better

than this film but i mean probably had more more

it's the first comic to probably have a bigger

budget than not really but like you everything

you're saying is right like there is a charlton

heston 2 .0 that comes in and almost step for

step retreads the experience of the first film

or at least parts of it right yeah and we have

some characters that come back we have taylor

nova zeus and zira i believe is yeah zero's in

there but we we totally ignore cornelius is not

here like what they're choosing to include and

not include doesn't seem to make a whole lot

of sense like roddy mcdowell's cornelius was

it was a a key factor and like there's no reason

that he's not involved here so that's kind of

weird and then like taylor is here but he's not

but then he is and then i like all of that i

was wondering like where are we going right like

i get that you're it has the same feel at the

beginning and we're in the same world and we're

dealing with the same stuff like you said like

the gorilla guy general is like an interesting

thing like okay this could go in a lot of different

directions and I'm like following I'm like okay

whatever I'll buy that it's another astronaut

that apparently looks and acts just like Taylor

and whatever we're gonna we're gonna find Taylor

at some point and I'm interested to see where

this goes like it I was interested in the beginning

but when you go into mutated telepathic humans

that are worshiping a nuclear bomb I i can't

go along for that ride dan that is bizarre like

i don't think they're intentionally funny like

i don't think that was intended i think this

is mystery science theater 3000 level funny you

look at the names though and you're like you

didn't even like i can't even say some of the

names of some of the characters because they're

like you know rachel epideft now but like the

one character the victor bruno's character is

just fat man like that's his name it's like you're

not even you know you're not even trying yeah

you're like like there's so many different things

that could have been interesting to explore of

like the ruins of like like think of the possibility

like we already saw the statue of liberty and

i get you get like a little bit of the whatever

this uh station or whatnot but like all of the

kind of um affecting ways that you could show

like have you ever seen one of those things where

it kind of like time lapses like a i don't know

if it's a video or like a pictures things where

you see like time lapses of like if if like nobody

takes care of certain landmarks across the world

yeah or across the country and like yeah i think

like history channel had a thing like when humans

are gone and it showed like everything like disintegrating

and stuff like that yeah or or like you know

some some very well -known place that's covered

in moss and trees and overgrowth and stuff like

that like you have all of these potential things

that you could do and instead we go with telepathic

mutated humans in a subway worshiping a bomb

like i i get that it's cold war time but like

was that was that the whole motive like we're

gonna just try to tie this into the cold war

and like nuclear holocaust and this and like

we've already destroyed the planet or humanity

like that already happened yeah so so now we

actually have to destroy the actual planet i

think too it's it it presents some interesting

ideas like you have the the conflict within the

ape society with like the chimpanzees and the

gorillas like the gorillas being more warmongers

and you have the like chimpanzees like even clearly

like with an allegory to like the vietnam war

protests and things like that but it just like

it doesn't really do anything with it per se

it you know and also promises like a conflict

that never really comes it's not like the this

battle it's bringing like these gorillas coming

it like oh we'll see like you know them with

against these humans it's just not that exciting

it doesn't really give you much it's a lot of

build up to a lot of nothing you know just like

and The first film was a lot of... What I just

conversed at was there was a little action here

and there, some chase sequences. This has a lot

of those chase sequences again, and they're fine,

but it doesn't have any of the gravitas or any

of the, like, intelligence of the original. Like

I said, there's ideas presented. And, like, okay,

I think it could be somewhat of an interesting

idea if you have these humans left over and they're,

you know, they're worshipping these... bombs

per se or whatever like okay what does that mean

it just it doesn't do anything with it i get

i always feel like it's on a precipice of saying

something but it's a lot of like telekinesis

or like oh they look down at these apes and but

it doesn't really ask anything i think all that

intriguing or like even i feel like take itself

seriously enough to act like it can explore any

of these ideas in a meaningful way it's just

kind of a culmination of just sci -fi ideas without

many much meaning behind it and a lot of those

ideas are i think executed very well like you

said i think they're they're funny unintentionally

they're really silly and you could argue maybe

that's what the time but considering what we

got before it's just it's this is the type of

movie really where it this is why no one took

sequel seriously was because of a movie like

this like this is the classic like we're making

this to make money and there isn't uh the heart

or the work behind. These aren't people making

a movie, at least from the outside in, because

they feel like they have something they want

to say or having much heart in it, where I feel

like we saw that with the original a bit more.

This was a movie out of obligation, which tends

to lead to whatever this was. I think it also,

in a way, paints a different reputation or connotation

when people think of... planet of the apes right

like the more the stuff like this exists the

more you don't take the franchise serious right

the more you think like oh it's all just kind

of nonsense whereas the first one actually had

something to it like the modern ones have stuff

to it like it's not this like franchise that

necessarily just needs to be tossed into the

you know don't take this serious it's just a

bunch of sci -fi nonsense or it's just like uh

you know whatever just crazy cartoon fodder type

stuff you know what i mean like and i i think

what the first one like the interesting parts

of some of the more interesting parts is the

inner workings of learning how this ape society

works right like yeah the different levels the

different types the different roles what aspects

of human kind continue how are they doing things

different so like that's one thing and then how

humans fit into that like whether they're like

the slaves or subservience or whether they're

like these people that are going to learn to

live with them or or they're going to be competing

uh forces against each other there is no need

for a third element like bringing the the telekinesis

mutant deranged humans in there like just takes

away from all of those other things like we we

don't need three different components to like

explore here we have enough within the ape society

that there's different factions and different

kind of like species slash you know races however

you want to frame it and like i just i don't

think the introduction of these mutants served

any purpose that besides like we're doing it

because we can or we're just going to take a

big swing and be crazy because we don't take

science fiction serious like i don't know like

it it just seems weird like this could have been

an episode of the twilight zone it could have

been an episode of the original star trek like

if done better it could have been twilight zone

like it's not good enough for twilight zone on

service because it doesn't give you anything

to think about which is what that series was

known for and then we you know we have this ending

where you know spoiler alert but you know the

first one destroys humanity and this one literally

destroys the earth so dan we got three more films

to cover i don't know where you go from here

was that your first thought when the when you

kind of see this ending is like wait a second

what yeah i don't i was waiting for it to like

not happen i don't i don't know i was like okay

does that what is laughing while i was watching

it because i was picturing you watching it yeah

and i was like hey i wish i could be in the room

and just watching dan's reactions as he watches

this because it was very clear to me like i didn't

like i said i didn't remember which was which

But as soon as this one started, I was like,

oh, God. I forgot it was the second one that

went. Yeah. Like, I don't mind the idea of bringing

in humans again or something like that. I just

think it doesn't do anything interesting with

it. And the characters there are kind of, you

know, really badly rendered. But yeah, when it

ends the way it does with the world ending, I'm

like, okay, well. how are i mean i know the next

ones escape the planet of the apes so i guess

in my head i'm thinking does that mean like the

world we were the world is just crumbling and

we're gonna that's what's happening next like

i yeah i was like okay well this should end everything

but i guess it doesn't so what exactly does that

mean so i'm curious because like i would before

we started recording I was mentioning to Kevin,

speaking of comics, we mentioned that earlier,

but there was this thing called the Commandee

Challenge DC did to celebrate Kirby's 100th birthday.

And Commandee was a character that kind of related

to this. He lived in the post -apocalyptic world

of Earth where all humans were killed. He was

the last boy on Earth. But what they did, they

had one creative team start the story, and then

they would end it whatever way they could. And

then another team would come on and have to pick

up where they left off. And because of that,

you know, people would, you know, try to make

things harder for the next team and put them

in precarious situations that are really hard

to get out of. And I'm like, is that what they're

doing here? It's like, OK, let's let's see what

these next people do when we blow up the world.

How do they get out of this one? You know, Scoob.

But, you know, I have no idea. So I'm intrigued.

So like. to see what exactly happens or you know

does it cause some sort of dimensional pull or

something like that like i said i remember there

being a movie that like has the apes go to earth

if memory serves so i don't know but yeah i love

the fact that you haven't seen any of these this

makes it so much more like rewarding and entertaining

for me to like so i hear your takes as we kind

of make it through the journey this film made

like eight times its budget yeah i made a lot

of money i mean we got glad that it did because

it made sure that the franchise didn't die necessarily

and we get some other stuff that we know we like

later but like i feel like this comes out these

days and that franchise is done well i mean we've

i don't know we've got the transformer money

so yeah i guess as long as they make money we

have a lot of bad franchises that keep making

money uh you know so there do you think Do you

think this is a thing where they just had too

many ideas, or do you think there's good ideas

and it's just a lack of execution? Is it just

bad in general, or is it like we missed something

along the way? It felt like it's a movie made

with obligations. I think there's some interesting

ideas within it. I do like the idea of the conflict

between the different groups within the apes,

and I think there's some things to pull upon,

but I felt like they just didn't have... enough

time to really kind of fine -tune everything

you know it felt like there had a strike with

the iron was hot you know they had to make it

within a good enough time frame to like where

people still remember where the apes are and

you know it doesn't overstay its welcome so that

was my thing is that's what it really feels like

it feels like sequelitis where it's them trying

to put something out but doing it in a rushed

manner so it just doesn't it's not nearly as

good Just trying to predict the future, Dan,

and you haven't seen or known anything about

the other three that are coming. Do you think

this will be the worst? Is this the floor? Is

this as bad as it's going to get? I don't know.

I feel like it could get worse. Like I said,

it's not the worst thing I've ever seen, and

there's elements that I think are okay, and sometimes

it's silly in a good way. you know i've seen

mystery science theater theater 3000 so i've

seen far worse science fiction films so perhaps

i don't know uh i know you said you liked other

ones better than other you know some of the ones

you actually like so i was this one i know that

there's films left that i like better than this

one i don't remember if this is the worst of

the five or if there's one other one that i also

didn't like but i i want to go out on a limb

and say like if my 15 year memory is not very

good but i want to say like this this is my least

favorite of the five but i reserve the right

to say oh whoops forgot about that one so that's

fair that's fair i mean i yeah i know the other

the next one escape from the planet of the apes

has a higher imdb score so i don't know if that

means anything but we'll see there we go i mean

i'm sure like you know rotten tomatoes and imdb

and metacritic like should point the uh the picture

for us i guess yeah yeah the next one comes out

like literally the next year so it's like i think

this one came out in 1970 what time of the year

was it may of 1970 and the next one comes out

may of 1971 so they were uh they were working

that uh production line pretty hard there to

make sure we're pumping these out before anybody

can forget about them so i will be interested

to see your your take on escape I think we can

safely say that Beneath was a significant step

down from the original. Certainly. And we'll

see if we can make it back up towards the original

or if we just get lost somewhere else in the

planet of the apes. So if you want to keep in

touch with Dan, you can search him out at the

Comic Concierge. You can search me out at Optimus

Solo. You can search the show out at the Cinema

Geeks or the Cinema Geek Film Podcast. Is that

the Facebook? I'm going to get it eventually.

Basically, you can find it that way. yeah or

you can search out uh all the stuff we do at

the website the gcrn .com so that does it for

this episode tune in next time for another chance

to listen to more of the cinematic