Batgirl Returns, Holiday Nights, and Sins of the Father Review

This is Batgirl, and you're listening to the

Geekcast Radio Network. This episode of Legends

of the Dark Knight features Steve, Mike and Tara.

Hello and welcome to the long overdue Legends

of the Dark Knight. I'm your host, Steve Megatron

Phillips. Joining me in this adventure into Gotham

City are my dynamic duo. Hello. Hey. Hello, it's

TFG1 Robin, and... And returning. And it's returning

from a long hiatus. Yes. Let's see, well, it's

2013. Yes. It is the 20th anniversary of Mask

of the Phantasm this year. So that's very, very

interesting. And we're back and we're gonna be

pumping these out. I think Steve and I had decided

that we're gonna pump out through the movies,

or try to. And then once we get to the movies,

we're going to kind of put the show on hiatus,

right? Until you can get more time for Batman.

Well, how I kind of figured is if I can get time.

And for those that don't know, in the year in

review GeekCast radio episode, I mentioned the

fact that I'll be going back to school. So my

time will be very limited unless I can get ahead

and then I'll be able to pump out more of these.

But. other than that it'll probably have to I'm

basing it on that I might have to wait until

the this particular semester is over because

the next semester it's one class not two so right

based on financial aid so but yeah so that's

that's more than likely what's gonna happen awesome

we are I am still trying and trying and trying

to get Mark Hamill on besides the fact that He

through his agents. He has said no a couple of

times or his agents have told me that you know

Mark Just doesn't have the time right now I've

heard him on like a million other podcasts Kevin

Smith had him on for like a multi -parter on

Fat Man on Batman That was before we asked though.

It was the early episodes of that so right but

no that no i had already sent requests before

i'd even heard anything about fat man on batman

so but i'm not saying against kevin smith show

i like fat man on batman but i'm just saying

it's like we keep requesting and he keeps going

to like talking tunes with rob paulson fat man

on batman and that's all well and good and i'm

not saying against them just telling the listeners

that we are still trying to get the joker this

show we will hopefully do it soon I'll be fantastic

if you if we actually get him yeah yeah it will

be so that's what's going on there and let's

see what else Steve and I have been doing a lot

of Batman comic reviews over on geek cast radio

seeing as having the comics the Joker is back

and They are doing the Death of the Family run.

Oh my god. Ugh, those books. Holy crap. Those

books are so awesome. If you're not a DC Comics

fan, you need to... Well, obviously you are if

you're listening to Legends of the Dark Knight,

but... True. If you're not reading the new 52

Batman line, you need to. Yes. That's all I'll

say here on that. Sounds good. I'll go to my

local comic shop and pick it up. Yeah. You know

what? I know I haven't been here for such a long

time, and I just want to say to everyone who

listens to this podcast, who's been asking where

I am, thank you. It's nice to know that there

are people out there who notice my absence. And

I've been very busy with school. I did graduate

in June from my first degree program, which was

broadcasting and film, and now I'm back for a

second time doing journalism, as many of you

may know off air. My goal is to be a broadcast

journalist here in Toronto, so I'm doing that

right now. I'm in the midst of that. And basically

just been, you know, kicking back, working on

some of my side projects. I started doing bead

art, which is you take these patterns and you

have these beads and you melt them and you can

create really cool things, like 16 -bit video

game characters and... a lot of other cool stuff,

which I will post on the GeekCast Radio Network's

Facebook page, so check that out. And that's

been occupying my time a lot, and basically just

taking my post -grad program really seriously,

but I really have missed being here, I will say

that. And it's really good to be back. And I'm

really looking forward to 2013 with this network.

I've been on this network. What has it been now?

Like two years, three years? I can't even remember

anymore. Something like that, yeah. It's been

awesome. And I'm looking forward to another fantastic

year with you guys and to continue this amazing

podcast. So thanks, guys, for sticking around.

Yes, thank you. And with that, we'll be getting

into the first episode of the night. Are you

all right? Yes. Thanks to you. Barbara! Hey,

Babs! Yo, Bookworm! You up there? What is it,

Dick? All work and no play, you know? Come on,

let's do a pizza run. Love to, but I can't. If

I don't ace these midterms, Dad says he'll throw

me in jail. And with my dad, that's no idle threat.

OK, catch you later. So our first episode tonight

is Batgirl Returns. A Jade cat from the Han dynasty

is stolen. Batman is instantly on the scene,

but the Penguin starts shooting him with electric

blasts from his umbrella. Batman prepares a Batarang,

but it is hit away by a Joker -hard blade. The

Joker and Two -Face advance on Batman along with

the Penguin. As they ready their weapons, Batgirl

arrives and tells them to back off. She quickly

manages to beat the villains down and goes to

see if Batman is okay. Grateful, Batman holds

Batgirl in close for a kiss. and unfortunately

like all good things it's just a daydream which

is very sad I love this episode because I love

like exactly what I just read just the opening

of it you think oh my god Batgirl loves Batman

is this really happening and then the way it

ends with with Dick going Barbara Barbara And

she wakes up and she's like, Oh God, that was

really a dream. It was this episode was a fantastic

way to bring back girl back into the series.

I think it was well written. I think it was great

to see all some some glimpses of our favorite

villains in the beginning, even though it was

a daydream. And it was just it was. Very well

done and I enjoyed watching it It's actually

one of the few back girl episodes that I can

actually sit through and not be bored because

I will be quite honest There are some episodes

where back girl is the feature that are a little

boring. I'll be quite honest But this one I have

to say it captures your attention. It grabs you

in and Just love watching it. What did you think

Steve? Um, I thought it was quite interesting

how they they started it out Usually I mean,

yeah, usually they start out with some kind of

a Action scene on most of them anyway or some

kind of a diabolical plot starting But I thought

it was kind of interesting that she was kind

of in a sense in her dream foreshadowing something

that would later come to fruition in Some point

later in the DCA you Because they yeah later

on in Batman Beyond it's kind of insinuated what

happened But uh and I thought it was kind of

interesting that Catwoman and Batgirl Kind of

had to work together Against Daggett in this

episode. Yeah It actually gave them both something

worth being in for once Yeah The funny thing

about this episode is it I like the episode,

but we're talking all fair about The movie that

I don't think is in continuity Sadly even though

it was a dream sequence this episode ties mystery

of the batwoman into continuity between this

and Batman Beyond because in mystery of the batwoman

it is alluded to it's kind of like a hidden undertone

that bruce and barbara have some sort of relationship

in the future before bruce gets old um and that's

kind of where mystery of the batwoman falls in

and i wish that didn't tie back to this episode

um i like this episode i really started liking

the batgirl stuff when tara took over tara strong

took over as the voice i don't dislike Sarah

Gilbert or the lady that did her in Sub -Zero.

But I think Tara's version of Batgirl is just

so much better. And it's just the one I've heard

the most. I like the episode. I like the whole

back and forth between Robin and Batgirl. I thought

that was cool. I like the fact that Catwoman

Almost goes over to the side of good, but as

Bruce said in the episode be careful. She plays

games It's very interesting to see them team

up Overall I liked it though. I agree with you

I mean Tara strong does a fantastic job when

we interviewed her I remember we got into that

and we were commenting on her on her voice as

back girl and she was very She was a little bit

taken back and she just You know, because she

was very humble about it, but it was so well

done. I misspoke, it was Melissa Gilbert, not

Sarah. Oh, this is the last one where she plays

that role anyway. Yeah. Yeah, because then in

Holiday Nights, it's Tara Strong, correct? I

think so. That's what I was getting at. It sounds

like her. Yeah, because it's the redesign. It's

before she was strong. Yeah, yeah. Tara turned

up. uh... some trivia for better returns the

episode is named after the second of tim burton's

batman movies batman returns someone comes made

in a non -dcau series the batman where bad girls

debut episode was called that girl begins nice

yeah that that was cool despite them being just

in a dream this marks the final appearance of

joker two -face and penguin on the batman series

Now, to me, I know that they renamed the show

two different times, The Adventures of Batman.

Well, The Adventures of Batman and Robin, which

is currently what this episode falls under, and

then the new Batman Adventures, or the new Batman

Superman Adventures. I'm sorry, the way that

the DVD releases, it's Batman the Animated Series,

all 108 or 109 episodes. That's life -changing,

too. I don't care. I know they had to retitle

the show because of the redesigns and all that

stuff and that's all well and good and I love

the new theme for the new Batman adventures but

I will still call it Batman the animated series

throughout the rest of the show because that's

what it still is to me. I agree. Anything else

on Batgirl Returns Steve? I think overall it

was a nice end to the animated series before

they switched styles. Yeah. I would have liked

a little bit more Batman, but I understand what

they were going for, so. But yeah, they did really

well with Batgirl and Catwoman for once. Yes,

yes, they did. That's what I forgot to comment

on was the Catwoman aspects. I was so focused

on Batgirl, I completely forgot about Catwoman.

But what I didn't mention earlier is I like her

wittiness at the end when she's like, yeah, I'll

let them take me. But I didn't say how far I

let them take me. Yeah. That was awesome. And

I was true Catwoman style. And I mean, like you

guys were saying, you got the sense. She's going

to the side of good. She wants to help that girl.

She's impressed with her and everything. But

I mean, no, it's Catwoman. This was an awesome

episode with her. I love at the end how she tugs

on Robin's cape, like, no, we'll get her next

time. Because there will be a next time. There's

always a next time. Oh yes. So, anything else?

No, I said all I got. You said all you guys want

to say? Yep. Okay. Alright. Well then, we're

on to the next episode. I'm depressed, Red. Here

it is holiday time and we're hiding out of this

dingy rat trap. No presents, no fun, no nothing.

Can't we at least get a Christmas tree? What?

And support the mad campaign of botanical genocide

that grips this country every December? Ah! But

Christmas trees are so bright and fun and pretty!

Oh, please, please, please! Calm down, Harle.

I've got a little plan that will make this the

happiest holiday ever. So tell me, Bruce, what

does Gotham's most eligible bachelor have planned

for the holidays? Skiing in the Alps? Sunning

in the Bahamas? And more importantly, who's he

taking? Actually, I was planning on a quiet Christmas

alone, Veronica. Really? I wouldn't tell them

that. Who's them? You're standing under the mistletoe

Now ladies May we give you a ride, Mr. Wayne?

No, thanks. I have my own car. Oh, but we insist!

Season's greetings, Brucie. Your two favorite

party girls are out for some Christmas fun. Holiday

Nights is the premiere episode of the new Batman

Adventures, despite being ordinarily - I gotta

redo that, sorry. That's alright, I'll edit it

out. Sorry. Can I just restart? Yep. Yeah. Okay.

Holiday Nights is the premiere episode of the

new Batman Adventures. Despite being originally

aired in September, this episode contains three

Christmas -themed vignettes, all completely unrelated

to one another. The first story stars Batman

in pursuit of Gotham's dames, Poison Ivy, and

Harley Quinn. The following tale is about Batgirl's

confrontation with Clayface. And finally, we

have the Clown Prince of Crime on the loose with

Batman and Robin trying to stop him. Okay, this

has to be one of my favorite holiday -themed

cartoon episodes that I've seen. Despite it being

broken into three different little stories, I

have to say that each of them had their own little

thing, but I'm only going to comment on two of

them because the last one, which involves Joker,

we're going to leave for our resident Joker expert,

Mr. Steve. Yes. To begin with, the first little

thing we're seeing with Harley and Poison Ivy,

oh my goodness. So funny and it's also the first

the first time we see the redesign of Miss Poison

Ivy who no longer Looks like just a regular person

with orange hair and a green bodysuit. She's

all white. She's got dark red lips and dark black

hair She's an albino. Yeah, she became she really

looks like an albino now So that's that's one

of the things that's new seeing this and it really

is a turn for a new direction for the Batman

series It was just the first little episode was

just really funny because Harley is so bored

and She's always you know, because she's the

playful one. She she wants to go and have fun

on Christmas But of course, her idea of having

fun in Christmas is a little bit different than

what Poison Ivy has in mind. So what do they

go and do? They kidnap Bruce Wayne. They hypnotize

him with Ivy's special lipstick. I don't really

understand how that works, but that's okay. And

basically make him go on a shopping spree at

all these... I know they had they had to change

the name of the major department stores because

of copyright infringement, but you knew where

they were going Yeah, and they're going to Bergdorf

Goodman and Macy's and all those big stores and

it was just it was just funny because the more

Bruce is signing all the charges the angrier

he's becoming Which is hilarious to see The actual

the little part that I really liked about the

first episode was a little snippet of them trying

on different clothes. You see, like, Poison Ivy

is the more fashionable one, with just, you know,

she doesn't try to look like an idiot. Meanwhile,

Harley doesn't care, and Harley is the stupid

one, but it's funny at the same time. And the

funniest part is when they both try on the same

hat, and you think a cat fight's about to start

out because they're both wearing the same hat.

But then some days they start laughing at each

other. And then when they push him down the elevator,

and they're like, oh my god, we killed him. And

then they're like, oh, we were going to do it

anyways. At least we have his credit cards. And

you just know, you know that Bruce has had enough

of this. Because of course, he purposely fell

down the elevator shaft. And then when he gets

them and the ironic part is that Harley who had

been complaining the whole time I want a Christmas

tree. I want a Christmas tree What does she get?

What do they get taken out by? a big huge Christmas

tree Yeah, anybody before I go on to the next

little snippet did you guys want to comment on

the first little episode just a fun little little

adventure I Thought it was really interesting

I liked it. It was just one of those fun. I've

said before on the show that when Harley and

Ivy team up, it's really great. When they're

with people or when they're together, it's great.

When they're by themselves, it just kind of feels

off. And it's just so fun because they're so,

as you said, they're such a stark contrast to

each other as far as their personalities. You

wouldn't think they would get along, but they

do. I know, it makes no sense thinking outside,

you think, how can these two people have anything

in common with each other? Steve, any thoughts

on this one? I thought it was pretty funny. I

could see what they were going for, and it was

kind of funny seeing Bruce being taken advantage

of with his billionaire status, my bad. You know

those two I have to agree with you guys that

they do work well together as opposed to being

separate episodes They just don't work. Yeah.

Yeah, we've commented Sorry, sorry if I that's

all right. Sorry about that Um, I mean we've

commented in the past about their separate episodes

and we've said when they're by themselves Starring

in an episode we've seen kind of it kind of almost

falls a little flat, right? Oh, yeah. A little

bit, it falls a little bit flat. It's like they

can't really carry an episode by themselves being

the main villain. There needs to be something.

I mean, Poison Ivy's first appearance, I mean,

I think it was a good first appearance, and I

think she did sort of hold an episode on her

own. But I think as the series went on, you know,

they did fall a little flat. So when they started

pairing them up, it made more sense to give them

their own episode. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, go on. I

love the fact that all these episodes take place

within a few days of each other. This first part

is December 22nd, the next part is December 24th,

and then the last part is December 31st. Are

we ready to go on to the second little snippet?

Yep. Okay, so the second little snippet, which

we briefly mentioned. Batgirl shopping Barbara

Gordon shopping for a present obviously for her

dad cuz she munches it she's getting him a tie

in a department store and also undercover is

Montoya and Our favorite cop Our favorite fat

Santa cop I'm gonna say that cuz he looks really

fat in in that Santa suit. And I know Santa's

fat, but it just seemed a little bit, you know.

Bullock is Santa is not a good image. No, it's

not because he's just sitting there. And I mean,

it's funny in itself. And the sad thing is, I

really wish they would have given more time to

this episode, which I'm going to comment on in

a few minutes, in a few seconds. But I mean,

seeing Clayface split into four different kids.

just stealing stuff. And then you see Barbara

just, you know, she goes behind there and she

just immediately just changes into Batgirl and

you can actually see her changing into Batgirl.

And I mean, you're just thinking like, whoa,

like what if someone sees her? You know, she's

just stripping, she's like stripping naked in

the department store. Like, you know, what if

someone sees her turning into Batgirl? I mean,

she at... She does really well in this episode.

I just really wish that it wouldn't have been

so rushed, because this whole little snippet

felt very rushed to me. I felt like the most

time was given to the first episode, to be quite

honest. To Poison Ivy and Harley, I felt like

the most time was given to that. I haven't actually

gone and said, oh, this snippet's this minute

long. I haven't done that. Just from a visual

standpoint and just from I guess, comprehending

it, it just seems like it was really rushed and

it was hard to really understand the story because

it happened so quickly. Yeah, it's pretty much

an in -between. Yeah, it's an in -between because

it's the middle between the first story and the

last story. I understand that, but I just feel

like more could have been given to it, in my

opinion. That's just how I felt, I guess, watching

it. don't get me wrong it was it was good for

the I guess the five six minutes I'm gonna assume

that it was yeah but it just it just not aspect

it left me wanting some more and I wonder if

anyone out there agrees with me feel free to

comment I can see that but at the same time it's

like it was kind of like and I think the reason

why it is that short is because it does take

place on Christmas Eve and I think they were

kind of going for oh she's gonna find a present

for her dad but oh there's clay face yay yeah

and it's one of those things where they just

ended it way too quickly Steve Yeah, it was just

it was kind of a needed but at the same time

I could yeah I can get your guys's points and

I think these are actually all adaptations from

a comic They are from the same one. I believe

too. So they shortened in some areas Yeah, those

are more to it though and what we see in the

anime. I can't remember. I think I I Think there's

a little bit more but not much. I'm curious now

And then the the final part is the December 31st

and The Joker is the main theme of this one how

very fitting This one the Joker is promising

good news and bad news the good news is That

for the next year he will not kill anyone the

bad news is that he intends to make up for the

loss and activity that very night So Gordon tells

Batman that the only murder that day was a goth

Corp scientist who specializes in sonics and

he was working on a new weapon powerful enough

to kill anyone within earshot and Batman figures

out that it's the New Year's Day countdown at

Gotham Square and That's where the Joker is gonna

set it off So it's a wild goose chase. And the

Joker, of course, being the funny guy he is,

makes everybody dress up in plastic Joker masks

in order to help him blend in with the crowd.

And Batman cheats with Bat -noculars. That sounds

like a 60s term. Like bat repellent, bat, you

know, shark spray, all that kind of stuff. Referencing

like 19, referencing Batman of the Old, right?

Yeah, the 60 TV series. Yes. And so he ends up

obviously beating the clown and in order to destroy

the mechanism, takes the bottle of champagne

from the Joker and sprays it on there, causing

it to explode and the bell's pulley resulting

in it falling. The massive heavy bell lands on

top of the Joker, who his last words is ouch.

I mean, you think he's dead, right? No, he can

never die. He was squished underneath. But in

normal circumstances, somebody would probably

die from that. The Joker would have died in the

first episode he was in then. Yeah. He had a

lot of near deaths. He has definitely more than

nine lives, that's for sure. Oh, yes. He's more

than a cat. But then it skips a few hours after

midnight on January 1st and you have Gordon entering

a tavern. while the barkeep kicks everybody else

out and they speculate whether he might not show

due to the hectic day he's had but the commissioner

knows that of course he won't break tradition

and Batman naturally comes out and makes an entrance,

sits, talks for about 10 seconds slips away and

pays for the bill and it ends with Gordon surprised

and then saying that one day he'll beat him to

the check and then heads home With a swinging

back close behind him That was one. I was my

favorite part of the episode Yeah, it was yeah,

it shows their friendship. Yeah, it was sweet.

It was really cute The only thing I'm wondering

is he's like I want a cheesesteak to go. What

happened to his cheesesteak? He didn't get it

Yeah, I know it's just like you you know you

I guess that's what bugged me I asked he's like

I want my cheesesteak and he didn't get his cheesesteak

He just forgot. He was too worried about the

fact that Batman paid the bill. Oh, yeah. Because

he wants to beat him to the check, but not gonna

happen. Yeah, because they're friends and they

help each other. Yeah. Well, Batman's fricking

rich. He doesn't, you know, it's like... He doesn't

know who he is, though. No, he doesn't. But I

think it's cool, you know, like having coffee

with Batman after a hard day's crime fighting.

Oh, yes. Jumping into production notes, this

episode was adapted from the Batman Adventures

Holiday Special cover date January 95. The differences

include the comic is in the style of Batman animated

series as opposed to the new Batman Adventures.

The comic includes a story that was not adapted

to this episode called White Christmas featuring

Mr. Freeze after the death of his wife. Freeze

breaks out of Arkham. it says Batman finally

captures him at the cemetery he tells him he

only wanted to make a white Christmas because

she loves snow which that would have been kind

of cool to see over the clay face thing but yeah

I at the same time it would have been another

filler piece so it really didn't matter yeah

in the comic there's a clear reference that Harley

is Jewish which would have well I believe I could

be wrong about this, but I believe Arlene Sarkin

is Jewish. I think I could be wrong. I wonder

why they didn't keep that in the animated series.

Probably just it was a footnote thing and they

just didn't want to. You probably just didn't

want to do it. For religious reasons, I guess.

Probably for some dumb reason like that. Stupid

people in their TV. In the comic, the story featuring

Batgirl and Clayface precedes the story featuring

Harley and Ivy, which is interesting. Yeah. In

the comic story, Jolly Old St. Nicholas, which

is the Batgirl and Clayface episode, Barbara

enters an empty dressing room to change into

her Batgirl costume. In the episode, she ducks

behind an abandoned counter. Interestingly enough,

first Tim and Paldini's original script for the

comic had Barbara changing her clothes in the

middle of the panicking crowd, trusting that

no one would notice her. The publisher firmly

vetoed this idea as too indecent, so instead

she used an empty dressing room. The animated

version seems to represent a compromise with

Barbara changing between clothing aisles. Still

out in the open somewhat, but mostly obscured.

Yes, of course we can't show, you know, a naked

back girl That would not be appropriate for viewers

But that's funny that they tried to push the

envelope I know they really were trying to push

the envelope So it seems they got their compromise

after all and I just made a comment about that

How she's changing behind a clothing rack and

now that you know, you've brought this to light

it makes sense now That's funny. That is very

funny. The animated adaptation of the Joker story,

What Are You Doing New Year's Eve, replaces three

nameless goons with Moe, Lar, and Kerr. That's

funny. Robin was originally not part of the Joker

story. I guess they had to add him though, because

they already had introduced him in... Previous

episodes. Well, I think it had to do with like

some kind of a contract thing. I'm almost guessing

Just so that they could include Robin because

it was the new adventures of Batman and Robin

and in In essence. Mm -hmm because in the comic

it wasn't he wasn't there Mike you want to do

the trivia sure all the girls are shopping and

the music is being played is based on the 12

days of Christmas The three late night revelers

singing all Lang Syne in the tavern are characters

of Bruce Tim, Glenn Murakami, and Shane... Lines.

Lines. The Joker's lines in the videotape message

were reanimated and revoiced for an appearance

in Bruce's records in Batman Beyond Return of

the Joker. Oh, that's interesting. That will

actually be in this episode somewhere. I'll have

to send that to you because I do have that. Nice.

It's in the scene where... It's after the scene

where Joker appears and Bruce is like, no, it

can't be. He goes down. Oh, I remember the scene

in the Batcave. Right. Yeah, it's from Holiday

Nights. The only reason why I remembered it outside

of reading it on the wiki is because of the fact

that Countdown of Victims starting. I remember

seeing that in Holiday Nights. I was like, oh,

interesting. The football game The Joker's Message

Interrupts features a commentator naming one

of the players as Altari. This is a reference

to Kevin Altari in the comic the player was called

Starklings after penciler Richard Starklings.

If you look at a lot of the BTIS episodes throughout

the four seasons or four volumes every time kevin

ons all terry is is directing an episode he finds

some way to reference himself it's fine you know

it's put the it's putting your mark on your work

that's great uh... it's a begins and ends in

the same place joe's tavern which is opposite

the gotham hotel where harley and ivy are staying

so essentially you could say that batman and

gordon were staking the hotel out the whole time

that's funny i did not put two and two together

that is very perceptive of you I didn't even

think of that. I didn't think of that. Good spotting.

This also marks the last time in the DCAU until

the Justice League episode made of honor where

Bruce Wayne speaks in a noticeably different

tone than his alter ego. Yeah, they started blending

them together a little bit too much, or Kevin

did. Some of the women seen attempting to kiss

Bruce under the Mistletoe are previously seen

in Batman Mask of the Phantasm, most notably

Ms. Bambi. The crack in the bell after it lands

on Joker is likely a reference to the Liberty

Bell. And of course, as we said, Tara Strong

replaces Melissa Gilbert as the voice of Batgirl.

Overall, I love Holiday Nights. It's probably

my favorite holiday -themed episode of BTAS.

I think it's really great. Even though the clay

face vignette is kind of just the overall The

overall package is good to me for this one so

Yeah, I have to agree. This was a really really

good holiday episode and it also Kind of gave

some of the characters a better viewing than

what they've had in the past and Same thing with

the Joker in his holiday episode. Yeah, I think

this one is a lot better Than the initial introduction

Yes, so so we are gonna be moving on Hey kid

come back with my doughnuts I got you. In your

dreams. Just wait till I get my hands on you,

you little punk. Gotta keep your energy up, pops.

Up next is Sins of the Father which retells the

story of how Tim Drake came to be Robin. Steven,

Tim's father, was once a member of Two -Face's

gang and now he is suspected to have stolen something.

Although no one knows what, Two -Face's pursuit

of Tim leads him on a direct collision course

with Batman. Having always been an admirer of

Gotham's own Dark Knight, Tim leaves it the chance

to impress his idol. Now, this... I'm not looking

at the wiki, but I know this is probably going

to be in the trivia. The way that they came up

with doing Tim Drake is that they combined elements

of his story with elements of the Jason Todd

character, so they actually didn't... I remember

Bruce Timmons said this in one of the commentaries.

They couldn't decide whether they were going

to use Jason Todd or use Tim Drake for the new

Robin after Dick Grayson became Nightwing, so

they just said, you know, we'll make him Tim.

We'll put in different things that, you know,

homage Jason Todd, but it is going to be Tim

Drake. I absolutely love this episode, and I

agree with Terry. It should have almost been

before, like, the the the air date order should

have been before holiday nights because as we

were saying yeah because as i was saying before

we um went into this episode if you want when

you're watching holiday nights before since the

father and you've seen regular robin all the

way up till now and all of a sudden you see little

mini robin you're kind of like what the hell

at least that was my first reaction when i first

saw this And I think that if they had done if

they had stayed true to the comic and not included

right if they just didn't have Robin in the end

of the Joker story Yeah, that would have been

fine, too. Yes. I understand It's the new Batman

adventures the new adventures of Batman and Robin,

but the whole point here is is to You know actually

introduce the character not just oh, let's throw

him there. Yeah, which is what they did What

are your thoughts on this one, Tara? To be quite

honest, I have mixed feelings about this. In

the beginning, I was a little confused because,

again, just because the order between those two

episodes, it seems a little bit mixed up to me

in terms of storyline. So I mean, it was great

to kind of see where Tim came from because finally

I'm getting an answer to my question. Yeah, and

I'm knowing his backstory and I'm knowing how

you know how he got this new Robin character

and I think it's cool because you know his father

was involved with bad guys and the Robin before

He he wasn't involved his family wasn't involved

in dealing with them, but his family was murdered

by them Yeah, so it's it almost seems like there's

a contrast between these two Which I'm not sure

if it was intentionally done or not But I think

it was a good episode. I really enjoyed it. I

mean Two -Face, ugh, I mean What can I say about

Two -Face that I haven't already said probably

in a previous episode? I just don't like the

guy And I don't know I just I can't take I just

for some reason I can't take his episode seriously

And I know I should be saying that for the Joker

and being like I can't you know Can't take Joker

seriously, but you take him seriously He just

wants to have fun. This guy is like, you know

He it's like you want us to shovel lamp up his

butt. Just be like lighten up You can't you can't

like I don't know just if it wouldn't have been

for the backstory of Tim Drake to be quite honest.

I would not have watched this episode Yeah, that's

my thoughts Steve I I like the backstory. I like

how they kind of meshed the the two different

Robbins But overall I I could kind of give it

or take it I like it because of the fact that

it has It kind of has that youthfulness that

we kind of had when we first saw Dick Grayson

as Robin and especially with Tim Drake being

so much younger because Even with Dick Grayson

and Robin, he was still like senior, junior,

senior in high school when he first started and

then obviously moved on to college. So I like

seeing the younger, like a younger, more snarky

Robin. I like Tim Drake. He turns into a creepy

old man, but as a kid he's pretty cool. You want

to do the production, Steve? Yeah, I'll go ahead

and do that. When Batgirl unfolds the paper,

we can clearly see that there is only one imprint

of the key. However, having been folded up within

the paper, it should be imprinted in two places,

not one. Whoever wrote that had too much time

on their hands. When Batgirl is trying to turn

off the countdown, it shows us at ten seconds

left, then again at five seconds, and it is five

seconds in between them. but if you count continue

counting down she would have pulled out the wires

at zero seconds not two as indicated on the machine

yeah but with it being a two -phase episode if

it doesn't end if everything doesn't end in two

then it doesn't make sense yeah For the trivia,

this and chemistry are the only episodes of the

new Batman Adventures to feature all four members

of the bat team, not including Alfred, in the

same place at the same time, though Nightwing

appears out of costume in both occasions. Two

-Face's appearance actually has a double meaning

for the new Robin's debut, as the story with

him and Tim's father is a connection to Robin's

unnamed half, Jason Todd, Also, his fight with

Robin after Tim was convinced that Batman would

need him and came in the Robin suit is similar

to Tim Drake's comic debut as well. The Robin

suit display is a clear reference to Jason Todd's

memorial in the mainstream comics although Jason

doesn't wear the suit himself until the DC Universe

animated original movie Batman Under the Red

Hood where the suit is put up and the memorial

as it is here. Like I said, I like the episode

I think it's a good introduction for Tim Drake

could it have aired before or been in production

order before holiday nights Yes, it would have

made more sense that way but Overall, I really

really enjoyed this one Yeah, it wasn't bad I

just that wasn't yeah, it wasn't my favorite

right I have to agree. I mean it wasn't my favorite

I mean, obviously, we'll get into our favorites

later. But it was OK. I mean, we've discussed

really horrible episodes. I don't think this

falls into that category. No, I mean, next week,

next week, next week. But yeah, it was OK. I

mean, you have to watch it just to get the backstory

of Tim Drake and find out why the hell there's

like a new mini Robin guy. But yeah, it was OK.

We are gonna move on. Okay, Jack, we're going

live in three, two, one. After 30 years of painstaking

research and excavation, Dr. Margaret Madsen

has brought the Ultrasaurus back to life, so

to speak, here in Gotham City. I'd say the work

has paid off very well for you, Dr. Madsen. Quite

frankly, Mr. Ryder, I never considered it work.

Hey! You can't come in here! Okay, everybody.

Freeze! Hey! I wanted to say it! Show's over,

handsome. What's going on here? What do you want?

It's beautiful. So sad you have to lose it. There

isn't an archaeological institution in the world

that would buy a stolen fossil. This wouldn't

be worth anything to you. To me, no. But it's

worth everything to you, isn't it? I did not

come here to steal bones, Dr. Matson. I came

to steal hope. Bone -chilling, isn't it? Next

up is... Cold Comfort. Creepiest episode ever.

Yes, as the name suggests, Mr. Freeze, unlike

the past, when his ultimate goal was to cure

and be reunited with his wife, this time he is

only bent on malicious and spiteful vengeance

as a way to lash out against all humanity, because

he decided if he can't have happiness, then nobody

can. and makes the big mistake of targeting Bruce

Wayne's loved ones. And also, with the revamp,

Freeze is a hell of a lot darker and menacing

and cold compared to his previous incarnation

in the DCAU. Yeah, this version freaked me out.

Just gonna say that. This version freaked a lot

of people out. You know what it reminds me of?

Have you guys seen the animated series of The

Mask? yes i have i know who you're referring

to yeah that that doctor guy yeah yeah i wonder

if that's where they got the uh idea from yeah

the the or maybe the other way around because

i think the mask uh i want to say no actually

the mask was 95 97 so it's kind of uh anyways

my my reference was to uh uh prey torus who uh

has the the head on skeleton or spider legs,

which is freaky enough. I believe I don't remember

which commentary it was, but there's one of the

commentaries on the DVDs where it might have

been a commentary or a special feature where

Bruce Tim says, you know, we we turned out to,

you know, we wanted to make Mr. Freeze a sympathetic

character, a really emotional character. And

then later on in New Adventures, we you know,

turned him into a giant spider and creeped everybody

the hell out. Yeah, we just went from like, you

know, we just did a total, we're just gonna mind

fuck with everybody. Yeah. That's what it is.

Pretty much, yeah. I mean, like, if I would have

seen that version when I was younger, I probably

would have nightmares, to be honest. Well, I

think at this point, didn't his wife... Oh, no,

she didn't die. What happened was... She's still

frozen, right? No, she got better. She got better,

saw what he had become, and flat out rejected

him. That's why he went down this road with this

episode. Makes sense. Is because she didn't want

to be with him after she had seen what he, you

know, the criminal he became to save her. Yeah.

I don't blame her though. You became a freak.

It kind of reminds me in Fantastic Four movie

with the thing. Same thing, right? Yeah, pretty

much, yeah. Well, with the one exception is Thing

was actually a good guy. Yeah, Thing is a good

guy. Yeah, it's the same kind of motif. Thoughts

on Cold Comfort, Steve? Well, I like the fact

that they actually went in and he was pretty

much taking out everyone. went to Bruce's house

and He had his freeze girls like in the 60s show

which was kind of interesting to me Yeah, but

yeah, it was kind of it was interesting seeing

him freeze Alfred and Bruce's kind of like yeah

But yeah, I like this episode and it was nice

seeing Batman and freeze go toe -to -toe yeah

yeah it was it was really really interesting

I believe this is his last outing in the DCAU

before Batman Beyond yep this is his his final

battle with Bruce anyway yeah and will we miss

him yes not really yes not after this no you

just don't want to see the creepy head thing

which they remove after this episode Oh god.

Oh man. I mean, the storyline was okay. I'll

say my little commentary, but honestly, ugh,

I did not like the sound. I liked it because

of the creep factor of it. Well, it had the creepy

factor, that's for sure, and I mean, you don't

screw with it. Bruce Wayne's people he cares

about. You don't mess with his butler, dammit.

No, you don't mess with Alfred. You mess with

Alfred, you're gonna get smacked. Right? He deserved

that. Alfred's the man. Well, some interesting

trivia here as far as that goes. Well, no, it's

not in the trivia. Well, it is, but it's in the

casting as well. What I found interesting with

the Ice Maidens is that number two and number

three are voiced. Number two is Chris Summer,

number three is Lauren Tom, who will eventually

come back and voice Maxine Gibson and Dana Tan

in Batman Beyond. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah.

It's like they planned this entire universe.

They really didn't. No, it was by the seat of

their pants. Yeah, yeah. What else you got but

um? Yes as for continuity freezes next and last

appearance as I stated before in the DCAU is

Batman Beyond episode meltdown where his head

is being kept in storage by Wayne Powers How

this came about is not explained in the animated

continuity, but Batman Adventures volume 2 number

15 based on the continuity Explains that the

head was acquired by Derek Powers father Why

would you want the freeze head But anyways Production

inconsistencies this episode has many of them

at the beginning when the man tells the girls

in the park as they can't be there He steps towards

them away from the cameraman, but moments later

in another frame. We see him once more back next

to the cameraman When Batman leaps at mr. Freeze

on stage they slide back Behind where the painting

once was but when freeze tosses him they are

in front of the paintings for replacement When

Batgirl stumbles upon the free suit she and Batman

hear the voices and run across the room About

seven running steps yet when they come out. It's

simply a narrow hallway. That is barely five

people wide Yeah When Batman goes first? To the

lower level he needs to use his flashlight But

when he hears the voices immediately after looking

at the free suit He puts away his flashlight

and runs across the room doesn't he still need

it? Yeah Freeze's suit changes in size between

shots and Dr. Madsen tells Freeze no one would

buy a stolen fossil. However, the Ultrasaurus

is a skeleton, not a fossil. Nice. Getting into

the trivia, Mr. Freeze's original character design

for BTAS was done by Michael Mignola at the request

of Bruce Timm. Mignola's own comics feature a

at least two characters who exist as disembodied

heads attached to robotic bodies. Herman von

Klempft. Yes, a mad Nazi character scientist

whose head is kept in a glass jar. Hey, that

sounds like Futurama. And the amazing screw on

head. Wow, he really needed help with names,

didn't he? And then as you stated before, Chris

Summer and Lauren Tom would both appear on several

episodes of Batman Beyond as Maxine Gibson and

Dana Tan. Yep, and this episode features the

first appearance of Jack Ryder Yeah Cold comfort

I think pretty much we've narrowed it down to

the fact that the episode is just really really

creepy So there's that that's that's pretty much

all I have to say about it. It's just it's too

out there for me Anything for you, Tara? Uh,

no, I'm good. Alrighty then. With that, we'll

be moving on. Well, that's natural. You're nervous

about leaving. How do I know he won't come back?

You've been healthy for six months, Arnold. That's

good enough for the state, and it should be good

enough for you too. As long as you maintain a

clean break from your past, I'm sure your alternate

personality will remain suppressed. It'll be

strange to be out there alone. I mean... And

finally up today we have Double Talk, which is

the sixth episode from season one of the new

Batman Adventures. After Arnold Wesker is released

from Arkham, Bruce Wayne gives him a job at Wayne

Enterprises to help him get back on his feet.

Unknown to Wesker, however, outside forces conspire

against him to force his return to crime. Yeah,

this is a Scarface in the Ventriloquist episode.

Nice. I like this one. I like the whole psychology

behind it because you've got this guy who really,

really wants to break away from doing this whole

ventriloquist dummy thing. And you've got Bruce

Wayne who is actually looking at the guy and

not the dummy and just saying that, oh, you're

a person too. You can be... Whomever you want

to be you don't have to be a slave to your inner

demons. So I like it for that The other thing

I thought was really really interesting During

a scene where Wesker is is walking in the park

You can see Lois and Clark in the background,

huh? Yeah, they're spying on Scarface I guess

Lois and Clark from Superman the animated series

because by this time in It's actually that because

the both series were crossing over It is the

new Batman Superman adventures. So by this time

in the series there It's it's no surprise that

Lois and Clark would be in Gotham somewhere But

no, I really I enjoyed this one. I thought it

was I thought it was pretty good Tara. What'd

you think? um Any episode with the ventriloquist

always kind of like the previous episode kind

of creeps me out Just because you know it's the

ventriloquist. It's Scarface So I mean, it's

it's a little bit creepy but I did enjoy watching

it and I think it was I think it was well written,

but it just It didn't really stack up with the

other episodes that we discussed in this episode

of Legends of the Dark Knight. Just in my opinion,

it was just, it was okay. It wasn't horrible,

but I mean, it wasn't that great either. So that's

my thoughts. Steve? This episode, I, for one,

I've never been a fan of Scarface or the Ventriloquist.

Just because I mean, yes, it's it's a head game

thing so I can kind of understand that But This

This one was a little bit more interesting only

for the fact that the ventriloquist was moving

on his own Yeah, so that was even more freaky

because he's talking to Wesker and you know,

they're seeing each other across the street from

each other and Scarface is trying to kill Batman

and whatnot. But yeah, it's just it's not. It's

not a fun episode, but I think it's funny that

Scarface finally, you know, kind of meets his

end at the hands of the ventriloquist. Yeah.

So it's like he kind of conquers it, but it's

yeah, I kind of. I could do without this episode.

Yeah. But at least it made him kind of look like

he went back to normal. Yeah. So we can kind

of throw this episode in the pile with the other

episodes that we don't really enjoy watching.

I enjoy it for what it is. It's one of those

episodes that kind of falls in the middle for

me. I can watch this more than I can watch the

original debut of these characters. I like this

one more than that one. So there is that But

at the same time it's still It's still showing

you that deep down Bruce Wayne does even even

Batman does care for people even even some of

the criminals so Because essentially Wesker he's

he's a tortured soul is what he is so That's

one of the reasons why I like the episode Getting

into Getting into some trivia here During the

Wesker's walk through the park as I said Lois

Lane and Clark Kent will be seen sitting in the

background Dwarfs hips and mrs. Seeger are voiced

by Billy Barty and Patti Maloney who are both

dwarfs in real life Mel Winkler replaces Brock

Peters as the voice of Lucius Fox in this episode.

So Yeah, Lucius got a new voice actor So that's

interesting Overall, this one was pretty good.

I guess for me. I liked it That's pretty much

all I got though Alrighty and So with that we'll

be back after this commercial break Legends of

the Dark Knight will be back after this. Are

you ready to have your dreams worked on? That's

right, Beyonders Season 2 of Tooncast Beyond

is coming soon and we will be talking all kinds

of films from Dreamworks Animation. We'll have

plenty of DeLorean time episodes as well, so

tune in August 1st, 2012 as TFG1 Mike, Optimus

Solo, Steve Megatron, JT from Saskatoon, Sketch

1984 and more bring you the next season of Tooncast

Beyond. You can find us on iTunes and on GeekCastRadio

.com. You can now hear our show on Stitcher Smart

Radio. Stitcher allows you to listen to your

favorite shows directly from your iPhone, Android

phone, Blackberry or Palm phones. On demand and

on the go. Don't have Stitcher? Download it for

free today at Stitcher .com or in the app stores.

Stitcher Smart Radio, the smart way to listen

to radio. to my throne of future tales the beast

unleashed podcast is over not gone you can hear

more of this great podcast discussing all the

episodes of beast wars and beast machines on

geekcastradio .com we include voice actor and

writer interviews with stellar hosting by steve

mike and michael Head on over to iTunes or the

net or else I will send you my vehicles to extract

your spark and destroy you We now return to legends

of the dark night so we're back So what are you

guys' ratings on the episode that we covered

today? Terry, you can go first. Okay. So my order

of episodes, my favorite one would have to be

Holiday Nights first. My second would be Return

of Batgirl because it was awesome. And then the

last three really didn't. They're not my favorites.

So just Holiday Nights and Batgirl Returns because

they were awesome. For me... I gotta put Cold

Comfort coming in last place, Double Talk, Sins

of the Father, Batgirl Returns, and then Holiday

Nights as my number one, so those are mine. What

about you, Steve? My number five would be Double

Talk, followed by Sins of the Father, followed

by Cold Comfort, followed by Batgirl Returns,

and then Holiday Nights. So I think it's pretty

much in unison that Holiday Nights is the best

one of the night. Yeah. It was definitely the

best one of the night. Yes, and it was fun. And

it was mostly fun because then at the very end

you get to see Gordon and Batman sitting down

for coffee. I mean even though I was being a

little nitpicky, I know I was being nitpicky,

but it was still awesome. So anything else guys?

No, I think that's it. Nothing for me. Alrighty.

Thank you for joining us for Legends of the Dark

Knight. If you'd like to leave feedback on the

show, there are many ways to do so. You can visit

the website geekcastradio .com where you can

leave comments on all of our different podcasts

including this episode. You can rate our show

on iTunes. Be sure to leave us feedback. We love

feedback. We need feedback. And if you're a Canadian

listener, leave us feedback. Yes, and then Tara

will read it for us on the show. Yeah. Call the

voicemail line 502 -526 -5821. Please remember

to tell us the show you were leaving the message

for and your name. You can become a fan of us

on Facebook by searching Geekcast Radio. You

can follow us on Twitter at L .O .T. Dark Knight.

My Twitter name is at SCP -21. What are your

Twitter names? Tf2 and Mike. At Tara Blair. Join

us next time when we discuss You Scratch My Back,

Never Fear, Joker's Millions, Growing Pains,

and Love is a Croc. So for now, I'm Steve Megatron

Phillips with Tf2 and Mike. And Tara the Rising

Star. Saying any mortal words of Batman? I am

Vengeance, I am the Knight. I am Batman. Thank

you for listening, until next time. technical

difficulties let's move on shall we