Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker Review

A disgrace to the name Joker. Why, in my day...

Hello and welcome to Legends of the Dark Knight.

This is episode 38. After this, only two more.

I am one of your hosts, TF2 and Mike. Joining

me is Steve Megatron. Hello. Hello. How are you?

Meh. Two years and over a hundred and something

episodes between two series to get to this. I'm

thinking we should have just done a GCR on this

movie. No, no we shouldn't. We are here tonight,

today, whenever, to talk about and do commentary

on Batman Beyond Return of the Joker. Before

we get into it, did you first see this when it

premiered on KidsWB or wherever it was way back

when? No. I saw this when we started the network.

It took you nine years to see this movie? I didn't

even know about it. Are you serious? Yeah, I

mean really what what would have brought it on

my radar? before doing this I Really wasn't into

Batman all that much before we started it. I

mean I was but I kind of lost touch of it Wow,

okay, um Which version did you originally see

both there are two okay, I saw it out both at

the same time I think I saw a bootleg copy of

the edited version, but I bought the unedited.

The only difference between the two versions

is the uncut version is 76 minutes, the cut version

is 73 minutes. The other difference is how the

Joker dies in the film. In the edited version

he gets He electrocutes himself because he steps

in the water and throws a switch and in the uncut

version Tim Drake shoots him So there is that

I'm sure as we do the commentary will be doing

you know talking about trivia bits and stuff

like that, so you're gonna hear a Famous laugh

and then hit your DVD player start menus after

this. It's a killer What a brother's bitch! Down

wolf. It's Lex Luthor! No it's not. Yes it is.

The voice of ghoul is played by Michael Rosenbaum,

who is Lex Luthor in Smallville. It's the Flash.

It's Lex Luthor from Smallville. It's the Flash.

I don't know Smallville. Yes, there is Clarissa.

Shut up with your damn puns. What? It's Clarissa

explains it all. She's twins now. Even after

so many years this animation still looks amazing

That's because the bats involved There's a deranged

clown if I ever saw one Magnetic boots oh God

that makes me want to hurl Vertigo yeah Well

you punch the pink clown There's jack -o' -lantern

Where's a mop I know right Oh dog you got a bite

You know you think these guys would be out cold

after being knocked into walls, yeah Oh, come

on, Batman. Don't go soft. Put on your invisible

pants. Yeah, that's one thing he never does in

this scene. He just likes taking a kick to the

face. It's a... Early 2000s redux of Raggedy

Ann Talk about taking a bite out of crime The

Triforce yeah They forgot their luggage This

is why I could never be Batman. Heights like

this would kill me. I think you'd learn to get

over it. Knowing you had the suit. Stupid clowns.

You punched the right one in the face. Wouldn't

that grind him being that he's on a hover vertical

takeoff and landing. Yeah. Oh there goes the

other clown At least Batman does try to save

her. He wasn't gonna let her die now that clown

he might oh No, that clown gets um something

a lot worse So this with a smile well they'd

save the circuit board they had the same kind

of mugshot that happens later that's what you

call the cranky clown collection cherry just

likes having clowns hands around his throat Why

does this remind me of why do you Autobots die

so easily? I like flagpole. Yeah, frag -pole.

Boom! Dang it, Batman, you caused so much destruction.

Gotham can't afford your crap anymore. Well,

let's save the circuit board. It took him that

long to do that? Oh, he is a clown. That's why

Kronos does away with them in a different way.

Yep. Oh god that explosion was so amazing Time

to roll the credits One of the best lines in

a movie Do remember from watching the commentary

on this when I had because I have this I have

the film on iTunes I don't have the DVD anymore.

I don't think but when I had the DVD set and

I was watching it on commentary They said that

they did the black background white tie white

titles because that opening scene was so Action

-packed they wanted the audience to be able to

kind of get a bit of a rest before Obviously

bringing in more action But it's never -ending

Just some amazing voice people in this movie

really Henry Rollins, you know Just So many cool

people between will Friedel Kevin Conroy Yeah,

I remember watching the original cut version

I'm like really the Joker dies from electrocuting

himself, and then there was this whole thing

back then Once it came out on DVD Like ooh, it's

the uncut version you've never seen this before

and it was like this whole big thing it was Hey

Michael Uslan, you know, I forgot he was on this

You know who he is, right? Yeah He's the producer

of every Batman film. Yep, cuz he owns the rights

to it. No Dini and Tim and their entire team

Burnett and and all of them do such an amazing

job and Gata on the directing. Half of these

names that are behind the scenes, I don't know

about Burnett or a couple of them, but like Gata

and Dan Reba and all them, I gotta get interviews

with them. No two -faced head for you. Nope.

Oh, he's still got it. He's been bringing it.

Hey look, it's the Joker! Hey wait, it's the

Trickster! This is the start of the red herring

syndrome in this movie. It's funny. What? Wayne.

He's like, yeah, my return pretty much torpedoed

any chance. He doesn't sleep anymore. These colors

are crazy. I know. Terry's sleeping. I love this

scene. This scene is so awesome. Look at the

giant lava lamp thing. I know, it's funny. There's

some weird speakers in the future. Well, they

did watch the Jetsons. That's true. Dana's dancing

away and Terry just... Is about ready to fall

over. Yeah. Ended up dance with the wrong girl.

Mm -hmm The abandoned Jolly Jack factory I thought

all these were burned down Yeah, that doesn't

look obvious Hmm You took bonks head and flipped

it upside down you'd have jokers mm -hmm. I think

that was the plan Oops. No, I wasn't. And then

the grand reveal. I'm so glad it took them this

long to do this movie because they had said in

the beginning of doing the production for Batman

Beyond, they didn't just want to bring in the

old villains and have, you know, Penguin Beyond,

Mr. Freeze Beyond, which they did have Mr. Freeze,

but you know what I mean? It's like... I'm so

glad they waited for this. Yeah. Well, The Joker

definitely deserved its own film. Oh yeah, most

definitely. It's so creepy, you get to see Bonk's

eyes, like lifeless, and the pig's smile, and...

He purposely picked that one. Yep. It's time

for little rendezvous! Wow, Terry in a suit,

that's... The only other time I've ever seen

him that dressy is when he dressed in Dick's

old clothes at one point in the series. I love

how she says welcome back where half these people

that are still alive now probably don't even

remember or know who Bruce Wayne is. I mean,

sure, his name's on the building, but still.

You know, he's starting to think something. Oh,

absolutely. He's like, oh shit, I didn't want

to hear that. Woof. Well, it's been a gas Bruce

broke his back Oh, that's creepy as hell. I love

that music coming in. Joker always makes fashion

jokes. Wait a second it took them only one of

those movers to take that this time. It's a smaller

mover and a smaller piece Now mind you you would

have thought that they would have read the ship

there that says jolly Jolly Jack yeah, it's a

candy bar car Yeah, he can jump that high Mm

-hmm. Well You know splicing does allow for people

to have you know higher. Oh My god, I mentioned

it's a candy bar car, but if you go back a frame

and look at The candy bar is actually in a clown's

mouth. Oh my god. I never noticed that before

many times I've seen this movie I've never really

paid too much attention to the candy bar car.

Now, if they were smart, they would have just

gone right to the factory that it came from.

Well, yeah, but... Everyone ended the whole movie.

Oh, the upside down Batmobile. Yep. And the Batmobile's

upside down. Shut up. We don't see too much of

This character's wife, but We see her here in

in the background with her back to us because

she's doing something in the kitchen But she

looks way too young to be his wife. It's a Harley's

daughter No, it's not it could be All right now

people who have been watching the series to this

point will know that stockard Channing was the

voice of Barbara Gordon apparently there was

some According to the commentary apparently there

was some scheduling conflict or something or

other and they had to recast and they used Miss

law and order herself Angie Harmon best casting

ever Do love how Terry's kind of flippant about

this whole Joker thing Because he's like I faced

everybody else Yeah, and you know she pretty

much puts him in his place, and that's an awesome

character development for him Like if Bruce is

telling you to drop it. That's bad It's funny

how it's got the different versions of the Joker.

The one on the left is from Holiday Nights. But

they redid the animation. What I'm saying, the

voice clip is from Holiday Nights. The revelations

in this movie are just heart -wrenching. I thought

he killed him. He's scared of what's gonna happen

to Terry because of what happened to Dick or

Tim. Yeah Hmm You don't know what you want None

of you ever did The suit looks so weird not you

know not hung up or not on him and look there's

two of them Yeah Well The only thing I can think

of is that that's Terry's suit and then the one

that Bruce used In rebirth is in the case so

one way I can Think like he made him his own

after the fact Mm -hmm I Remember the commentary

they said that they added this scene in so people

wouldn't forget that Terry did have a home life

And he had a mom and a brother Another club scene

What a bunch of punks Red green purple and orange

there's too many furs and colors here I Mean

I kind of like it. I think it adds a difference

to the series compared to all the other ones

fine with it. Yeah So they don't have their makeup

on yet ghoul shows up and fold that That's a

little iffy for me and Bruce is preparing just

in case Poor dog. Yeah See Bruce should have

had one of his masks ready his breathing masks.

Yeah at least he somewhat Plans for this Kind

of and he hides him under the table. Yeah. Well

more so drops them Only once arrives It's just

creepy. Where's your fat suit now, Terry? At

least Joker had some integrity and didn't tell

them who he was. You mean didn't tell them who

Batman was, you mean? Who Terry was, yeah. Yeah.

So many lasers. Aw, slang. Cherry's getting the

upper hand Yeah, that's one thing I'll say for

McGuinness even though the bad city is quite

resourceful. Oh, yeah Well, that's why Amanda

Waller says what she says, you know Hey, look

somebody put red shirts in with the whitewash.

It's a whole big pink mess Little it is a lava

lamp That squirt gun There's the Akira bike.

He bumped that truck when he passed it. I never

noticed that he actually says, uh, I'm not here.

Leave a message. Oh, really? I never heard it.

like come through as clear before. Remember in

the commentary they mentioned that for the TV

version they had to change the color of the ha

ha ha ha ha Because that looks like blood. Yeah,

they changed its a purple Yep Obviously this

the whole ha ha ha thing here Bruce's eyes are

red Yep the whole spray paint thing here is to

mimic rebirth when Terry's dad died Because they

did the same thing in that Conrad is so good.

And they really need a maid for that cave. Where's

Alfred when you need him? I love this scene.

I don't... I don't... deserve to live it's funny

the dog is watching TV yeah rough night for me

too Mr. Wayne's house, boy. Ugh. Flashback the

fun times. Yeah Would Robin be on patrol alone

in Gotham? I mean, I'd say the kid can't take

care of himself, but - Bruce was drunk that night?

I know, horrible. Dodd's rubbing off on you way

too much, dude. They soon realize like how do

they not know after one night That's an amazing

image showing him through the window mm -hmm

He truly is a dark night Get back. It's confetti

time boys and girls That's when Batman and Batgirl

were... Stop it. That never happened. Oh, it

happened Flashback is so well animated that lightning

looks the only thing I wish they would have done

in the animated or in this this one Mm -hmm.

Well, it's later in the present time Yeah, is

what? the old man Bruce and Terry following behind

should have been included in the The film showing

the tombs of old. Oh Yeah, it's the in the animatic

on the disc but Right, yeah, I was saying They've

got their own honeymoon or said I know it's almost

like when he did that in mask of the phantasm

Yeah, but minus her in there Yeah Little J Bazooka

The joy of childbirth If you spare kids hanging

around oh my god Joker really is the ultimate

Batman villain because of this whole movie right

here because of how depraved he is and how far

he's willing to go to just Get one on over on

Batman That's Andrea Romano doing that Really

yeah He's writing the operating table, it's funny

Batman's out for blood you think Right through

the set Good thing Harley's wearing makeup or

she'd be able to see her black and blues all

over her face. I know She threw a rock at her.

Yep. Bazooka instead. True. Goodbye Harley. That

is a bottomless pit. Yep, but she didn't die.

Oh no. Paul Daney would never kill Kevin Smith's

daughter. This scene is creepy as all hell. Like

the plunger and the whoopee cushion and the rubber

glove and then half -eaten donut at the table.

Yeah That originally was gonna say kill the cook

but WB had a huge issue with that And here comes

the final nail in the coffin. This is really

cool how they did this with the the projectors

lens And Bruce has bumpy You know what's funny?

That... That's not funny at all. It's actually

funny because they have Joker saying, that's

not funny, that's not funny at all. And then

in Arkham City he says, that is really funny!

Before he dies. Because Batman says, I would

have saved you. Love all the name drops. Yeah

I'm sorry a year would not be enough time. I

Mean, I you know, I'm not complaining. I love

this movie I'm trying not to nitpick it but a

year would not be enough time to get Tim back

to sanity Hey Terry pull the fast one It's weird

seeing Barbara at the back computer I know considering

she's not sat at it before He's like, shit, chill

mate. Would have been a sick twist if there was

more than one version of the Joker floating around.

Mm -hmm. I want those fingerprint mics. I do

too. I want the bat suit. Well... Yeah. Because

then I could go, I'm Batman. eh, pansy gets kicked

to the floor Uh -oh. Kaboom! This is some wonderful

animation. That whole sky scene and the beam

coming down. Oh, so good. The colors, everything

is so good about it. And then the music swells.

That is awesome. That's the biggest cannonball

I've ever seen. It's a flash strip. I love how

cavalier he is with these cops. Because we're

at a point now in Batman's history where they're

not coming after him. Hmm, kind of sounds familiar

like the old days. You can't keep him in the

hospital. He'll leave. Eh. Figured it out. You

notice that the bad suit is not in there now?

Yep. So then my theory from earlier is out the

window it's the same suit. Suit up Good bad dog

Yeah, that doesn't happen just yet. I know. I

love how Bruce smiles. He knows. Mm -hmm. Hologram

time. That fake gonna love that Yeah, cuz Bruce

is always his Batman mm -hmm Hey look, it's the

Justice League cannon Giant lasers shoot lasers.

Sucks to be the mega cannon Ace Where was he

I mean, I'm sure the dog was laying down but

the Batmobile is not just behind the seat Eh,

it was cool as 2025. Dogs like hey, you know

Poor batmobile. It's like a stormtrooper. You

just have really bad shot. Yeah It's kind of

like all those 80s cartoons they can't shoot

anything but the air it's like wrong direction

dumbass Alright, let's send send them right through

the the park with a bunch of people So it was

a parking lot there were people in it oh Yeah

through the part. Yeah. Yeah, that's yeah, you're

right You know joker was smart he would have

done something different, you know like implanted

himself on a younger body well he can also at

this point we learn later that he can you know

the changes come at will and there's the there's

the Pinkie Pie of the series And a boom Poor

Batmobile, man You didn't think that through

did you chucko Happy's damn Joker should be dead

by now That's what happens if you mess with a

real dog Yeah, whack There it is is the line

good bad dog Hey look the circus is in town Hey

He's invisible. Marbles anyone? Looks like all

the jokers are out of commission. Almost. I love

this scene. This scene is so cool. The character

development of Terry as himself and as Batman

is just so great in this movie. This is where

Joker takes over. Yep Bad oysters, that's horrible

line the strangest line I've ever heard It is

something the Joker would say though it's awesome

how they like mesh the audio oh yeah and the

visual i mean just look at that oh You know,

Joker monologues way too much. That's why he

gets defeated so much. He likes to talk. That's

creepy. Hearing Stockwell's voice coming out

of the Joker animation. Joker's one sadistic

bastard. Yes, he is A nice big smile. I like

this. Doggie gets a... Doggie gets a re -battle.

I think it's funny he calls him Scooby. He says

Snoopy, not Scooby, right? It sounded like...

Yeah. Either way, Warner Brothers owns it. Yeah.

I love the sarcasm. I love how cynical the Joker

is about this where he's like, yeah, well, we'll

do this next time. And he monologues again. If

it's a whooping you're one. Let's dance Bozo.

It's funny. Joker's got some moves Terry does

like to talk The real Batman funny guy He's getting

all pissy now That's eerie Seeing the beam in

the window I know Joker's actually freaking out

With no good joke of it bit him in the cape Just

trying to escape Carried laughing just sounds

creepy This is the one point the entire movie

where I hear Eric Matthews in my head more than

I hear Will is Batman. Oh, I agree It's like

one of those later boy meets world moments Yep

Joker you're not Batman Where's Ace? There we

go, full circle. The Joker's hands around Terry's

neck. It's just like the flagpole moment. Yep.

No more joking. That's, that's creepy. Did you

notice in the animation there? Oh yeah, it flickers

in and out. It flickers between him and Drake.

Big boom Such nice explosions. Oh, look at that.

That is so awesome. Fireworks! And then this

thing just randomly drifts away. I was gonna

say, yeah, we never know what happens to the

Hyperion class satellite. It just kinda... It

falls into a black hole. This is hilarious. nana

harley harley and playing an old harley And he

has no recollection. They're basically talking

about Bruce. Yep. Only because Bruce is Batman

and it's the other way around. Well... For him.

Yeah. It's like a Mask of the Phantasm moment

here. Yeah, kinda. Playing like a twisted version

of the two. Mm -hmm. Nice little closing though.

I like it. Yep All right, that's gonna do it

for the commentary. We will be back after this

with final thoughts Lovely playroom you getting

this way I see it you keep your eyes open for

the Joker Tim get up Drake What who is it? Where's

the Joker? Joker drop the act. I know you're

working with him No, Joker's gone. I don't know

where he is, really. The suit sensors aren't

picking up any pulse fluctuations. He's telling

the truth. I don't do this anymore. I have a

home and family. I gave this up years ago. Kid

stuff, that's all it was. He may be telling the

truth, but he's still whacked. Fun and games.

Boy wonder playing the hero, fighting the bad

guys, and no one ever gets... Oh, ****! I tried

so hard to forget, but I still hear the shot.

Still see his dead smile. Every night, the dreams

get stronger. He's there when I sleep, whispering,

laughing, telling me I'm just as bad as he is.

We're both the same! I'm calling an ambulance.

No, I'm all right. Forgive me, Terry, old nasty

memories twisting inside me like bad oysters.

Nothing, really. I'm perfectly fine now. How

do you know my name? There's nothing about you.

I don't know bad fake Have a timeout kid can't

let you spoil a party too soon and Bruce I'm

sure you've got your monkey boy wired some That's

just peachy because I want you to see every minute

of this It's a killer doesn't even realize I'm

using him as a timeshare. Beneath this puckish

exterior lies the mind of a genius years ahead

of my time. In the weeks young Robin was under

my tutelage, I used him as the subject of my

greatest experiment. Utilizing cutting -edge

genetics technology, which I had pinched here

and there, I encoded my DNA on a microchip and

set it into Bird Boy's bird brain. Here. Everything

that was me has been asleep and all comfy and

cozy inside Tim Drake's subconscious. At first

I had to limit the time I spent in Drake's body.

He's not aware of what I do, chalking up any

lingering memories to bad dreams. If his family

misses him, I simply call wifey and tell her,

I'm working late, honey. The changes come at

will now. Soon, I'll be strong enough to live

in this body permanently. Mr. Chase on the rebound,

baby! My comeback party's gonna set the whole

town on fire! So where should I make Ground Zero?

Gotham General, where our hero's dear little

Dana is recuperating? Or here, in the happy garden

of Mrs. Mary McGinnis? I always think it adds

resonance to a hero's mission to have some defining

element of tragedy in his background, don't you?

Ah, but the one and only kick -off point must

be stately Wayne Manor. in a flash before brucey

can hobble to safety or mount a rescue don't

worry though i'll be hitting those other spots

soon enough adios brucey i guess i should salute

you with a worthy adversary and all that but

the truth is i really did hate your guts what

about it kid any last words for the old Bad fart?

Yeah. Sick of. Thanks for wrecking everything,

kid. See you around. Hold it! Oh, wise up, Junior!

Game's over! I'm taking you in. Right! You're

out of your league, McGuinness. I know every

trick the original Batman and Robin knew at their

peak. Maybe. But you don't know a thing about

me. You? What's to know? You're a punk, a rank

amateur, a costumed errand boy taking orders

from a senile old man. Still, if it's a woman,

you're a one. That's right. Better to run and

save yourself. It's about your speed. Let's dance,

Bozo. and likes to talk he'll try to distract

you but don't listen block it out and power on

through wait I like to talk to what are you doing

fighting dirty the real Batman would never told

you you didn't know me funny guy can't say the

same for you I'm not a comedian, I'll tell you

that. Shut your mouth! The real Batman never

talked to you much, did he? That's probably why

you were so fixated on him. Don't play psychoanalyst

with me, boy! Oh, I don't need a degree to figure

you out. The real reason you kept coming back

was you never got a laugh out of the old man.

I'm not hearing this! Get a clue, clowning. He's

got no sense of humor. He wouldn't know a good

joke if it bit him in the cape. Not that you

ever had a good joke. Shut up. Shut up! I mean,

joy buzzers, squirting flowers, lame! Where's

the A material? Make a face, drop your pants,

something! Show yourself! You make me laugh.

But only because I think you're kind of pathetic.

We are back, um, so 14 years after it premiered

Obviously this movie still holds up and it is

still amazing to this day. Oh, yeah You can't

this this is like This and in mask of the phantasm

are like the ultimate Bat films. Mm -hmm. There's

there's just no other I I have a deep spot for

both of them Yeah, I just it's it's one of those

things that I Put these far and above higher

than the live action Absolutely And I think for

me this is a movie that I can always watch it's

I've watched this I don't know how many times

like if I need just to watch something fun and

yeah, sure this movie is kind of Dark at times,

but I mean, it's the Joker. He's supposed to

be dark and and Creepy and all that good stuff

that you come to expect with that character and

just what Tim and his crew were able to do Bruce

Tim Paul Dini all of them and Expand the universe

so much with this so good from their creative

parts to the voice acting to Christopher Carter

and Dynamic Music Partners Music, and Batman

Beyond Return of the Joker. If I was making my

own personal favorite top 100 or top 50 animated

films list, it would probably easily be in the

top five. Yeah, I would agree. That and Phantasm

for me would be in the top five. But not only

my bias towards Batman and the Joker, but It's

it's like the the two perfect booking things

to the the two sagas Absolutely, so all right

That's gonna do it for this episode of Legends

of the Dark Knight next time around Steve and

I are gonna do a top 20 Countdown we're gonna

do 10 BC is episodes and 10 Batman Beyond episodes

our favorites And then after that hopefully Tara

will be coming back for the finale in the finale

episode episode 40 of the podcast We will be

talking about epilogue So that's it take it away

Joker So you can get a hold of us in the following

ways you can call the voicemail line 502 -506

-5821 You can get a hold of us on Twitter Geek

cash radio or at LOT Dark Knight. My Twitter

handle is at SCP 21 and yours is sir Do you have

to invite? So until next time I Am vengeance.

I am the night. I am the Joker man Yeah, sure

you were