Interview with Thom Zahler on Warning Label and Time & Vine

Hey, this is Tom Zoller, creator of Long Distance,

and you are listening to the Geekcast Radio Network.

Are you ready? I'm waiting for you. Hello and

welcome to The Pull Bag. We interrupt Robin Hood

Month to bring you this latest interview. I am

of course TF2 and Mike, and my guest is a returning

guest. Second time he has been here inside The

Pull Bag is Mr. Tom Zoller. Hello, sir. How are

you? Oh, I'm good. How are you? I'm... I'm okay

with not being okay. We're all damaged in our

own way. That's true. Very, very true. I may

actually commission you to make my own warning

label at some point. That'll come later, folks.

That'll come way later. But anyway, Tom Zoller,

for those of you who don't know, writer, artist...

All that good stuff. Did Love and Capes, Long

Distance, which is still my number one favorite

creator -owned comic. Works on pony stuff for

IDW. You're doing which series now, currently?

Which of the pony series? I'm on the Friendship

is Magic. I have a couple issues that'll be coming

out over the summer for that series. Okay. So

you've been doing that. You've been doing the

convention thing. You also have two creator -owned

series, one through IDW and one that you're just

doing by yourself. Well, I'm doing that one through

Line Webtoons. They're an online comic service,

and they are fantastic. Awesome, awesome. Alright,

so if you haven't read Lovin' Capes, folks, go

read it. If you haven't read Long Distance, go

read it. Our good buddy Jesse Jackson and I will

eventually get to reviewing Lovin' Capes Volumes

3 and 4 and Long Distance at some point. I don't

know when that's going to be, but it'll be some

point. Tom's one of Tom's two new creator on

projects is called warning label It is your most

recent release I mean time and vine is out and

we'll talk about that here in a minute, but I've

already seen an interview with a few other websites

where you've talked about Time and Vines. So

I think the info on that is kind of out there.

So I kind of want to jump on the warning label.

Sure. When did you come up with the idea for

warning label and kind of give people the basic

premise of what the series is going to be? Alright,

so I started talking with line web tunes I'm

just gonna call them web tunes in October and

they wanted they wanted some stuff for me So

I pitched them about four different ideas in

November and one of them that I came up with

was warning label And they said this is awesome.

We need to do this one So then we decided to

do warning label The concept behind it is there's

a guy a girl at a bar. They're hitting it off

And the girl says, just so you know, this is

going to get weird in a minute. The guy says,

why? I'm just going to ask you out. And then

there's a flash of light, and suddenly a warning

label appears because she has been cursed by

her ex -boyfriend that any time some guy asks

her out, they get the warning label of everything

they need to watch out for. And then on top of

that, they go on a date. And one of the things

on the list, and this is chapter three. So if

you don't want to be spoiled, don't skip ahead

like a minute. but they one of the things on

list is emotionally unavailable and she opens

up about how much she hates having the warning

label he walks her home and then as he's leaving

he looks at the warning label and then he notices

that emotionally unavailable has disappeared

and that's when they realize the list can be

beaten hmm very awesome Now when you say you

pitched them several ideas and warning label

is the one they said that they wanted to do How

long had this idea been festering in your creative

brain before you actually you know had the full

concept of it this this was not one of my deepest

pitches I I had it I had the idea for it over

the summer and You know just kind of shelved

it and said well. I'll get to that when I'm ready

And when I was pitching them stuff, I tried to

pitch... My agent puts it as, think of the things

that people who like your work would want to

see you do next. So rather than me pitching some

dark horror series that has nothing to do with

anything I've done before, I was trying to pitch

something that was like every... that there was

a commonality, that people who liked Love and

Capes and Long Distance would go, oh, well, this

certainly seems like the kind of book Tom would

do, and it's different, and I think I'll try

it. So I pitched a couple of those, but Warning

Label was the most relationship comedy -ish version

or thing that I pitched, and that's the one they

went for. So then there was a lot of fleshing

out. I have plotted this one out tighter than

anything I've ever written before. Because the

way I work is that I can kind of make stuff up

as I go along I mean, I know the destination

I'm going to but I don't necessarily have it,

you know printed out page by page chapter by

chapter But in warning label, we see the list

in you know, unlike page 3 or panel 15 or something

like that See the warning label early and I'm

not gonna be able to go back and change anything

once I start writing it. So Everything on the

warning label. I have to figure out how or if

it gets dealt with Exactly how the warning label

works, you know who cursed her how the curse

works all of that kind of stuff so and The webtoons

format is basically in terms of comic book pages.

It's roughly five pages a week So I had to figure

out how to tell that story in those type of chapters

rather than like a 40 page comic book I've you

know, it's a lot. It's a lot shorter. It's a

lot It's a little more punchy so but unlike anything

else i've done like with uh Time and vine. I

just turned in the second issue. Um, I have the

fourth issue almost completely drawn I have to

dialogue the third and the fourth yet And there

I can go back and I can you know, I could still

change something in issue two if if there was

a better idea or I needed to to shade something

or if there was something that I when I got to

issue four, I'm like, oh, if I make this reference

in issue two, this is gonna seem really brilliant.

I don't have that advantage with warning label.

This had to be plotted out because I am working

on it as the books come out, but I can't go back

and fix anything. Yeah, with warning label, it's

gonna be hard for me. Not because of the story,

but because it's a weekly... because I just I

just saw the link like or like the day of that

we did this interview folks and You had already

had the first three chapters. So you already

essentially have had the first three weeks of

it done. Yeah Webtoons launches with three weeks

on the first day. So, oh, okay. Yeah, I I wasn't

sure how yeah, so you didn't you didn't miss

anything it went up yesterday, okay But now my

question is great i have to wait a week now to

see the next it's like television right now how

i enjoy television is i just enjoy going back

and binging it on netflix hulu or whatever i

have not watched a week -to -week television

show in over oh okay minus um the superhero shows

and stuff like that that are actually on Hulu

or whatever or I can see them next day But I

have not actually watched a week -to -week television

show in a really long time and I'm used to bingeing

it and I'm like great now I have to just wait

three weeks so I can binge this Well, you know

honestly, I think if you do it right that's part

of the fun I mean, it doesn't always feel like

fun, but I'm a battle on five guy and I watched

that as it aired And I had a friend who got into

it when it started airing on TNT and I said you

you're not a real Babylon 5 fan because Babylon

5 fans had to wait for like five months for a

new episode to come out and There were so many

clues and it was such a tightly packed story

that you you just obsessed about oh I think this

reference refers to this and this is gonna happen

But you need there are some shows where you need

that you need that breather between where you

can really appreciate it Because when you're

binging shows if it's if it's the wrong show

It's just it's just feeding you everything and

you're not engaging with it in quite the same

way I'm I'm kind of picky about that. So like

right now house of cards is out and I love that

show But I won't binge it. I'll watch maybe two

episodes a night maybe but like there's only

13 episodes and when I'm done I'm done and I

don't like it's not a competition. I'm not trying

to rush through it I want to I want to savor

it enjoy it and you know try to try to play along

and figure out what's happening or what Frank's

plan is and and all that kind of stuff and that

that participatory nature I think sometimes gets

lost in the in the binging. I don't know like

I'm currently going back and watching through

White Collar and I'm only just now getting to

the end of season one and I've only been watching

it for two and a half days off and on not not

straight through but off and on you know. And

I don't know, I just find it a lot easier to

binge watch than I do having to wait a week,

having to wait on commercials. See, I'm weird

that way. I also don't like commercials. It's

gotta be the right show. I mean, White Collar,

I love White Collar, but it wasn't, for lack

of a better term, super plot heavy. There was

a continuing story, but it wasn't so much what

mystery are you going to solve. I guess in the

first season he had that with his girlfriend.

But yeah, it's just kind of the right tool for

the right job. And I watch TV as I work. So watching

live and having commercials, it's kind of like

how the Apple Watch reminds you to stand every

45 minutes. When there's a commercial, it's like,

well, hey, maybe you should think about getting

some food or standing up or moving away from

your desk. And I actually use TV as a metronome

because. I know that Supergirl ends at 9 o 'clock,

but then it's kind of like a stopwatch where

I know what's going on in my day. There are times,

I will say, where it's really fun to watch a

show where you get lost in it and you're skipping

commercials and you don't know how long it is.

That's interesting because you avoid that law

and order problem of there are 10 minutes left

in the episode and it looks like everything's

wrapped, but it can't be, so where's the twist?

You lose some of that. But yeah, it's the right

tool for the right job. And there's some shows

that are spoiled online so much that I want to

pay attention to when they're airing. It's not

for everything. I'm just saying how I like it.

You can consume media in any way that works best

for you. When I need to take a break, I don't

use TV or a watch or anything else. As soon as

my knee, my left knee starts screaming at me,

I was like, okay, I need to stand up now. I always

talk about the old coot that was a better barometer

than the actual weather people. All right, so

in Warning Label, you have the two main characters,

Jeff and Danielle. tell us a little bit about

them if you can without really spoiling because

folks if you've ever read Tom stuff before you

have to be in the moment to read it and just

at times laugh your ass off because so I mean

you know you mentioned earlier and I actually

have the page where it's the it's the first chapter

open it's not really a flash of light the thing

is on fire dude I almost thought you were gonna

put a yippee -ki -yay mr. Falcon joke so yeah

what can you tell us about Jeff and Danielle

without really spoiling too much about them Oh,

that's right. Jeff has a line early on where

he says he doesn't want to define people by their

jobs, so that's why he doesn't ask what she does

first. They get along. They're both geeky. They're

both sassy. They kind of don't let each other

get away with too much. When the warning label

appears, all the stuff that's on it... Danielle

hates having the warning label, but she also

completely cops to the fact that the stuff on

the warning label is true. So when I said she's

emotionally unavailable or doesn't want to hang

out with your friends, she's like, yep, nope,

totally true. So it's going to be interesting

to figure out what. They're going to do to make

things disappear from the list. But what you

find out is that Danielle is she doesn't like

having the list she She accepts the fact that

the stuff on the list is real But she that doesn't

mean that she likes the fact that the list exists

because as she puts it She's leading with her

worst qualities every time someone asks her out

So she's a little damaged in that respect Yeah,

not horribly so and she seems to deal with it.

She's very she's very confident. She's very opinionated

You know, she seems to know what she wants and

she you know, there's a lot of you find out that

she works for a gaming company kind of in my

head is kind of a cards against humanity kind

of place based in Austin and that informs a lot

of her decisions because she she really likes

doing it and she is very much a it's not it's

probably in no way as as bad or as insular as

it used to be but there's still conflict in being

a woman in a largely male workforce even if it's

not largely male anymore there's still a lot

of inertia there so she is dealing with that

And Jeff will we'll find out he works at a place

like the Alamo draft house in Texas and He's

an assistant manager and he one of the things

you'll find that he needs is he needs a little

push yet Like he's he's comfortable where he

is, but he hasn't he hasn't taken another step

but we're one of the things you find out is that

he's been married before and He's got his own,

you know kind of carbon scoring from that and

that's part of the reason that he relates to

Danielle in this way is that he's like I've kind

of been where you are like I Went through a thing

and and it wasn't great and you've got a thing

and I you know I know that that you don't come

out of relationships the way that you went into

them Which is why he's a little more forgiving

at least at the start Yeah, absolutely, it's

a fun series folks like I said Everyone should

check it out. The link will be in the post for

the interview here If you've never read any of

Tom's work, this is a perfect series to get used

to his sense of humor and his styling. I gotta

say, you and your colors, man. So I'm not taking

the blame for this one. What happened was Webtoon

said, hey, we think it'd be cool if you did a

limited color palette. And I didn't want to do

what I had done on Time and Vine, because that

was very specific to that book, and I liked it,

but I don't like repeating myself. In fact, color

vexes me so much that I actually brought in a

colorist for Time and Vine. Sorry, yeah, it said

Time and Vine. I meant Warning Label. Brought

in a colorist for Time and Vine, but with Warning

Label, Webtoons wanted a limited color palette.

And so the compromise or the way I thought to

hit it, was that the colors of a warning label

are red and yellow and black. And I turned the

black a little bit brown, and I mixed those colors

together. I mixed a red, a yellow, and a dark

brown. And that gives me the entire color palette

for the book. It actually changed the location

in the original pitch. They're based out of Seattle.

And every time I started thinking about the colors,

I'm like, there's no way red and yellow is Seattle.

Seattle is too green and wet. But Austin worked

as a location for all sorts of reasons is exactly

the place I mean Cars Against Humanity is actually

in Chicago, but Austin has a lot of like upstart

Companies like that and they've got a fair number

of gaming companies down there video game companies

Which is where you find out Danielle started

working So I thought that was a it was an interesting

place to go. It gives the book a different feel

I try you know Try not to repeat myself too much

and it's hard especially doing Largely relationship

books because I feel like there is a there's

a pattern to the way that goes with a lot of

people You know, I don't want them I don't want

every book to be they meet and then they talk

to their best friends and then they get back

together though that Yeah, I think is what happens

when you meet somebody is that you leave and

then you tell people about them and then you

get back together with them. So it's finding

different ways to structure that and give it

a different cadence, make it something that I

haven't done before because I've done this stuff

before and I did it right and I wanna keep pushing,

keep doing new things. So here's my question.

Yes. Besides the fact that I, how, okay, before

I ask my end all be all fan wank question here.

How far are you planning to, what is the set

series run for Warning Label? Is there a set

series run or is it, I'll just do it until I

feel the story's done or what's the plan here?

It is a finite story, probably run about 30 weeks

or so. I have flexibility to expand if I want

to. But I I think for this story it is important

that it ends doesn't mean that the doesn't necessarily

mean that the series ends but it's very much

a Is very much a TV season like webtoons and

I you know, we we've agreed that we're gonna

do X number of strips, right? So yeah, there's

there's a definite end to this part of the story

So once this part of the story ends Jeff and

Danielle are gonna head down to Australia and

run into Carter and Lee, right? Right? Come on.

You know, I want to, you know, the weird part

of that question to me is that I keep changing

the art style a little bit too. So, you know,

it would kind of be like when the critic visited

the Simpsons. You're not the same as, you know,

you're not built the same. But I want to, I want

to do a little bit more of that, that kind of

JJ Abrams, Brad Bird. You know Pixar kind of

references to each other and everything. There's

a there's at least one scene in In long distance

where you see that Lee gets an email saying that

love and capes, you know has a new episode on

tonight Like it's become a TV show. Yeah And

there I have I don't know that there's an Apollo's

coffee in love and capes, but there has been

in time and fine. There's definitely There has

been in long distance. There definitely is in

time and vine. I'll probably figure out a way

to work that into a warning label. I would like

to build some sort of, not so much a shared universe,

but a universe with certain common points to

it, the same way that there's always an A113

in a Pixar film, or just something like that.

So there's some sort of stitching between them.

Well, yeah, I mean after you did Love and Caves

you had long distance and in long distance there

were at least Three or four references throughout

that series to Love and Caves and there there

is a really weird reference to Raider in that

series which nobody ever read but the there's

an evil doctor in the second Raider and she winds

up being the good doctor who gives Lee her job

and long distance I just kind of decided that

hey I don't want to design another character

and I already worked this one out and so this

has to be not evil as far as we know but I don't

you know I don't want long distance to take place

in a universe with superheroes so that's yeah

no I mean okay the way that I'm looking at the

three universes is you know earth one earth two

or three pick whichever one you want whichever

one to be on but it's one of those things where

in long distance The references to Love and Capes,

it's like it's in another world. Like it could

be a TV, like you said, it could be just a TV

series or whatever. Cause the big, one of the

big references for that was that La Croix, La

Croix Pictures was putting out Dracula, Dead

and Alive 2 or something or other. Frank and

Drac 2, whatever. Frank and Drac 2, there you

go. And of course they fall asleep in the movie

theater. But yeah, no, because I remember when

you were teasing this stuff on Twitter and Facebook,

and I'm like, what is he working on? Those characters

kind of look a little, that style is a little

familiar. And now that I'm actually seeing this,

I'm like, hey, it would not be outside the possibility

of... Warning label being in the long -distance

universe or at least the two of them having a

shared universe. Yeah, that would be funny That's

true. Although they seem to know an awful lot

about curses Yeah in warning label Absolutely.

All right. So time and vine give us a little

bit of background on that. All right This is

the winery comic I wrote so I could write my

wine bills off for a year There is a magical

winery That if you go down to the right tasting

room and you drink the right bottle and the bottles

from 1912 you go back to 1912 until you sober

up its wine is a time travel method and It kind

of came about if I remember right Kurt Busick

made some joke about writing a comic book about

a winery and there's something about the way

he said it where I'm like, oh wait, I don't know

how to do that and I came up with the concept

and then really quickly I came up with the superstructure

for it. I knew what the overarching arc was going

to be and it's one of those things where when

you write the pitch there's essentially a paragraph

where you say and then they have adventures and

then it ends this way and figuring out the and

then they have adventures is always the tough

part. So the story is still structured very much

the way I intended it. But the things that happen

in the middle are not what I intended them to

be. I still get to the same place, but their

characters became more important and their stories

became more involved and more interesting than

what I had originally intended. So I'm really

happy with it. Now this, like Long Distance,

is going to be a four issue series. Correct for

double -sized issues same. Yeah, same format

as long -distance. You said that you are working

with a colorist on this So tell us a little bit

about that person. So his name is Luigi Anderson.

He is amazing He is incredibly talented incredibly

fast he is He worked with me on all sorts of

things to make this the book that I wanted it

to be and it's it's really interesting to me

because I I actually did color the first first

eight pages and they're horrible So he recolored

everything um I but like my brain couldn't figure

out what I wanted to do with the book long distance

loving capes time and by now have a very particular

coloring style and there is a Like I can like

it's almost math. I mean I can tell you how to

color in that style and make it look Right, and

I it wasn't working for long there for time and

volume It wasn't it wasn't capturing what I wanted

to capture and I couldn't figure it out and I

was I was getting a little behind on the book

and I didn't know how I was going to color everything

in time and then at comic -con my buddy Tony

fleece introduced me to Luigi and I showed it

to him, he's like, man, I'd love to color this.

I'm like, okay, well, I'll pay you for it. Can

you do a page? And he did a page and it was great.

I'm like, oh, there were a couple things we had

to talk about, but they weren't big things. It

was like, oh, this is how I envisioned this.

One of the things I... I want there to be a different

look between each time period. Kind of like if

you watch any of the CSI shows, they're all filmed

in LA, but back in the day, CSI Miami was super

saturated and golden as opposed to the kind of

desert -y look that they had on CSI and then

the really desaturated gray style that they had

for CSI New York. And I want each time period

to be visually different. so that when they go

back to the 60s, it's a little brighter and more

pop art colors. When they go back to the 1800s,

it's a little more sepia -toned. And there's

a baseline for what the winery looks like in

present day. And he is doing such amazing things

with light. I can't, you know, his brain works

in an entirely different way than mine, and it

works out so well. There's some scenes which

are just painfully nice. I just, I want to live

in the world, but he's painting. Yeah, I can't

wait for Time and Vine. That's going to be an

awesome, awesome series. And it just seems like

it would be any wine aficionado's comic book.

Yeah. You know, I like going to wineries. So

that's part of what inspired the book. Absolutely.

All right. Let's see. What other things are we

expecting from you this year? How many, you got

any major convention appearances you're gonna

be making? Yes, as near as I can tell I meant

all of them. So, coming up I will be at HeroesCon

in Charlotte and then I will be at Denver Comic

Con in Denver. I will at some point I will be

doing a signing at Cardiff Comics and Collectibles

in Baltimore. Then I will do Comic Con in San

Diego. I think I'm off mostly for the month of

August. I certainly hope so. Then it's Dragon

Con and Baltimore Comic Con and New York Comic

Con. And I know I've got a convention in November,

but that hasn't been locked down yet. It's like

all of them, yeah. Obviously because Time and

Vine is through IDW, we know it will eventually

be collected in a trade paperback form. Will

Warning Label be collected in trade paperback

form at all? So I don't know about that. It's

built so it can be, but it kind of depends on

the success of the series. I mean, it's designed

to have that as an option, but I don't know if

that option will be taken. So right now it just

exists as a webcomic, and it's... You know, it's

it's kind of in its own way the same way that

design loving capes where loving capes was designed

to work in four panels So I put it online if

I wanted to this is it was a really interesting

design challenge to figure out how to build a

page that looked Would work well as a comic book,

but also work well as a webcomic. You know there

there are other compromises to it, like the lettering

has to be bigger on the webcomic so that it reads

right, but I can use the negative space between

panels for lettering. There's a scene where Jeff

says that the list can be changed, his word balloon

is in the space between that last panel and the

second last panel. So there are panels that I

will tweak to make them better on the website,

but I've designed them so they'll work well if

it ever goes to print. Alright, tell everybody

where they can find... Well, you guys can get

Time and Vine. You can pre -order it digitally

on Comixology or... I don't know if IDW has their

own service yet, but anyway. You can also tell

your local comic shop about Time and Vine. Where

can they get Warning Label? They can go to webtoons

.com and if you do bit... That'll take you right

there. Awesome. And your website is? Tomz .com.

T -H -O -M -Z .com. Awesome. Awesome. All right,

folks. I'd like to thank Tom for taking the time

to chat with me. And we will catch him again

soon. I don't know. Maybe later this year. Who

knows? Depends on. on what kind of emotional

damage he causes me with this warning label bit

because I actually asked I'm not afraid to admit

this after I read the first three chapters I

actually messaged one of my ex from almost 20

years ago we've been friends you know off and

on it's been a long time since the breakup so

I said you need to read this after you're done

make me a list you're a braver man than I am

Yeah, well. Oh, boy. All right. Yes, you can

find Tom on Twitter. It's at Tom Zoller. You

can find him on his website and everywhere else

as well. I'm on Instagram now, too, at Tom Zoller.

Awesome. I still haven't gotten the hang of that.

I don't do mobile, so yeah. Yeah. It's crazy.

Follow at the pull bag on Twitter as well. We

will catch you next time make your greatest game

in the comics go check out warning label and

Time and vine when it hits later this month,

I believe because issue one is not Oh, okay next

month next month this time in vine folks I Don't

know what the hell's wrong with me tonight time

travel comic you can barely pin it down. Don't

worry Why do I always have to cut these things

so damn close? Alright, make your greatest game

in the comics and we will catch you next time.

See ya! The rat. Where's Lois? She was here just

a second ago. Probably scared witless, poor thing.

Don't worry. I'll have you out of that thing

in no time. Okay, let's see now. Do I disconnect

the black wire or the white one? Lois, I thin

you got some splaining to do. Tucky, if we're

gonna be partners and we're gonna be married,

I don't want to be part of the act. Lois, there

are thins I do. You can do. Me superman. Me superwife.

Us super in trouble. Could you hold this argument

till later and get us out of here? I knew this

was gonna happen.