Interview with Pat Shand on Writing Robin Hood and Zenescope Entertainment

Hi, this is Pat Shan, writer of Robin Hood, and

you have jumped inside the pull bag. You got

a plan, darling? I always got a plan. They don't

ever work, but I always got one. Hello, and welcome

to The Pull Bag. This is the second interview

of this week. I am your host, TFJoneMike, and

joining me is the Xenoscope Entertainment writer

of Robin Hood, Code Red... Age of the eight Robin

Hood Age of Darkness one -shot, and I don't know

else he's done right off the top my head But

we have Pat Shand with us today. Hello, sir.

How's it going? It's going. How are you? Not

bad. Not bad That's good as we are recording

this this will release on on Friday the 7th of

August as we're recording this Robin Hood ongoing

issue number 13 Just came out this morning Before

we get into all that before we get into how you

started writing comics I wanted to ask you about

You know kind of like where you grew up. Did

you always want to be a writer that kind of thing?

Yeah, absolutely um I grew up in Freeport. It's

a small town in New York, Long Island and Yeah,

I've lived there basically most of all my life

until about a year and a half ago. I moved here

to San Diego and as far as wanted to write my

whole life. Absolutely. I mean, I remember I

got R .L. Stine's Goosebumps books when I was

about six years old. And ever since then, I've

been trying to write. I wrote a little short

Goosebumps fan fiction stories on my mom's typewriter,

which makes me seem a lot older than I am. I

just like the typewriter. And yeah, ever since

then, I was doing my own stories. I had this

kind of For my age, morbidly bizarre hope that

when Arnold Stein died, I would somehow inherit

the right to continue Goosebumps. But yeah, no,

I, yeah, I've always wanted to write. It's always

been, there's never been a sort of second career

option. I've never had any other desire, except

for a short time. I was pretty sure I was gonna

be in a screen rail band, a famous screen rail

band, which did not pan out for the best for

everyone besides me. But yeah, always wanted

to be a writer, for sure. All right. So when

you were a kid, was there was maybe a parent

or grandparent, aunt, uncle who said, here, kid,

take this comic, go away, you bother me. Well,

Kind of yes. Um, there was one point where my

uncle came home from a trip to the city with

a box comics and that was pretty much it, you

know, they had comics um, they had a This box

had Peter Davitz the Hulk. I had um My favorite

was a Stephen King's Creepshow comic. It's like

this oversized basically a trade paperback adaptation

of the film And there was some rocketeer stuff

there But the only one that I liked a lot was

creep show. Um, I did not fall in love with comics

then it was until um, I just read those and I

enjoyed them and they were a part of my childhood

but compared to um, see like Goosebumps and Harry

Potter and just other pros actually, um Comics

were a small small small part of my childhood

and I didn't really get into comics hard until

around 2007 when Joss Whedon started doing Buffy

season eight, and then later on IDW and Brian

Lynch put together Angel After the Fall, because

Buffy and Angel were always my two favorite series.

And now I was seeing a means to continue getting

stories about these characters that I love, which

comics is great about, you know? There's no other

medium that... Takes these cult classic properties

and continues them non -stop like like comics

has you know I mean like so there are some novelizations

and some continued novels, but no one does that

like comics does So I started getting more into

comics then and then I branched out reading books

like runaways why the last man all the stuff

that Brian caveman was doing there and then more

Marvel titles and DC titles and it As an adult,

my world view about comics was opened up because

I never pictured myself writing comics. I always

pictured myself writing especially young adult

novels, but just novels in general, short stories

and screenplays. But then when I saw the world

of comics sort of open up for me, I saw how interesting

that world is and how different... It is from

what I thought it could be based on the older

comics that I had read which I didn't connect

to But the modern comics I found that any story

I could tell in in a novel or in film the language

of comics had changed and I am I was captivated

by the way that these writers and artists were

telling stories together and I instantly upon

seeing that uh... especially what bryant was

doing that they want to be a big part yeah i'm

not uh... i in the same way i never really get

it right i knew about comics as a kid whatever

else but i never really got into them too heavy

i was too busy reading RL Stein's other series,

the one I prefer, Fear Street. I was too busy

reading that. The Hardy Boys case files and all

that stuff. For me, as I went through and we

came about for Batman the Animated series and

Superman and the whole DCAU and then in 2012

and the listeners would have already heard this

by now since the pullback's been around for a

few years now, but it's one of those things where...

2012 DC's like hey guess who's back and guess

what we're doing death of the family and the

Joker's back and I'm like oh This would be interesting

and then I slowly started picking like I was

all DC for about a year right before Before the

podcast started Because my main thing with comics

is and this goes for DC as well. Oh my god Batman's

799 just came out. You mean I have to read 798

other comics to catch up? And I know that's not

what it is. I understand that now, but that's

what my fear was in the beginning. And it's just

one of those things where, you know, now I'm

more... I find myself in the two and a half,

three years, almost four years that I've done

the show here, that DC isn't everything to me

anymore. They've changed things and screwed characters

over that I really love and killed people off

and brought them back as copycat Nick Furies

and whatever the hell else and I've branched

out. You know, I'm more into IDW and Image and

I honestly don't even know how I found Robin

Hood. I honestly have no idea. how I found Xenoscope

Entertainment and your Robin Hood series. I really

do not remember at this point. I remember seeing

something online or I don't even know at this

point, but I, you know, back in July now, you

know, I spent five weeks reviewing everything

up until the legend trade and we weren't going

to get into the ongoing right then because that's

a lot of books to read already. Yes, it is. so

Your reading habits today. Are you? more one

Are you more Marvel or DC now or do you just

read as much as you can get get your hands on

or are you more? Independent publisher or how

does that work for you? Um, well, here's what

here's what it is for me. I read each company

in different ways like All right Marvel. I'm

reading in trade. So I'm Super behind on Marvel

books, but I am I am more invested in the Marvel

Universe So I'll read I'll just I have a list

of Marvel books that I have to get and ones I

have to read and essentially I'm reading the

modern Marvel Universe in order So right now

I'm around the the Avengers vs. X -Men crossover.

I'm about to get into that but like There are

some Marvel books that I read monthly, but right

now I'm a bit lost with the secret wars thing

because I'm not I'm not reading all those books.

So I'm not really sure what's going on. And I'm

not at all invested in the current Avengers storyline.

So it's just it's very confusing for me. So I'm

enjoying the books that make sense on their own.

Like I recently read the Secret Wars version

of runaways and that was really good that one

stood alone by itself. So that I enjoyed a lot

But as far as DC, I'll I'm kind of current on

those but with them I'll sample a number one

and a number two and if I like it then I'll buy

the trade when it comes out because it's just

um, I like so many of the books that I can justify

buying the single issues and the trade and yeah,

and I want to to support the writers who are

doing big things, but when it comes down to it,

I have to choose to support the monthly indie

books. So I'm reading a lot of Image Monthly,

a lot of more Dark Horse now, too. I wasn't reading

much Dark Horse for a while, but they're putting

out some pretty good stuff now, definitely. And,

you know, Black Mask is doing great now, and

boom, it is killing it. So I'm reading a lot

of monthlies from those. Yeah Yeah for me with

DC I think I'm down to three books for them which

two years ago I was up to like nine or ten right

right now. I'm only reading the six issue series

for batmite The new Batman Beyond ongoing and

of course he man and the Masters of the universe

right Granted that's not technically their property.

That's a licensed property, but still it it's

with them Marvel Hit or miss Honestly Marvel

it depends on the character for me sure like

I loved superior Iron Man. I thought that was

so cool and oh Nope, guess what all new Marvel

no more superior. I'm laying on IDW I read ID

I read a lot of IDW between turtles and Transformers

and all that stuff And then image I was reading

cowl until they ended that And then, like I said,

I found Robin Hood, and I haven't looked back,

and I've pretty much delved into almost not everything,

but I would say a good 40 % of what Xenoscope

Entertainment's doing right now is on my list.

Yeah. Your series was kind of the kickoff with

your characters, and then I saw that you guys

are doing the six -issue, 10th anniversary edition

things, and... the code red which you wrote,

which I have yet to get around to reading. I

need to do that. And it's just one of those things

where I am so far beyond dealing with Batman,

Superman, Wonder Woman, any of the BS that DC

puts out with those and cons. I hate when companies

reboot. I really do. Like, okay, sure. New 52

was fine. Go ahead and tell a new thing. Oh,

and then... Three or four years later. Hey, guess

what? We need money. So we're gonna take it all

back to one and give more right I'm one of those

guys that I am a strict continuity person. It

needs to have a beginning an extremely long middle

and and then it either needs to end or it needs

to just continue right So when you came like

how did the whole and I'm not asking for the

business end of the dealings with Xenoscope,

but how did you come to be involved with that

company and start your career as a writer? Well,

it started with Angel, actually. I wanted to

write that book because I love that book more

than any other one going on. And it's the one

that got me back in the comics, of course, I

mentioned before. I was at New York Comic Con

when the book was going to end. They were putting

out the final issue of the ongoing series and

then eventually Angel Yearbook, which was going

to be a collection of new short stories by all

the writers who had written Angel at IDW drawn

by all the artists, the fan favorite artists

who had done it there. So some reason, for some

reason IDW let me Tell a story in that book.

I have been reviewing angel for a while and um,

I Got to go ahead to pitch for that because they

were appreciative of the press that I had gotten

them the reviews that I was doing and Eventually

after pitching for a while. I got the green light

and then they asked me if I would instead like

to do a short prose piece about what the series

means to me and I was like listen you know I've

done I've done many of those on my website I

would love to write a comic and they were like

absolutely so I am I was super excited about

that got a short little two page angel story

in a final book at IDW and um instead of just

sort of um taking that dream come true and leaving

it be which I could have done because I did want

to go back to writing prose I instead used it

as a sort of stepping stone, and I just hit some

companies up, told them that I wrote for Angel

at IDW, and I didn't specify that it was just

two pages. And then I got some bites. I wrote

some pieces on Joss Whedon for Titan Books. That

was more like a literary criticism thing. And

then I did some... I did a two -issue mini -series

and a one -shot for Big Dawg Inc. and I started

working for Xenoscope on the side doing some

of their one -shots like the Holiday Edition

from 2011 and then the annual in 2012 and after

the annual is when I went out to Philly for Wizard

World Philly and they gave me the offer to write

Robin Hood and then after I submitted the first

issue of that series the original I got the call

from Ralph asking how I would feel about going

exclusive. It just seemed to be a fit then. They

wanted me to write between three and four books

monthly. To me, back then, that was a dream come

true. I couldn't imagine that. I couldn't imagine

the idea of having my name on a shelf. Three

out of every four weeks. That was insane to me.

So I Quickly jumped on that. I thought that was

the coolest thing in the world that uh that I

was going to be Much less published monthly but

published at all, you know It was still very

very new to me the idea that my work was gonna

be read and um that that was the biggest draw

that someone wanted me to write for them and

that my work was gonna be out there and that

was Stunning to me and ever since then um I was

also very intrigued about the idea of that a

scope one to do my creator owned books And I've

done um at this point I've done two through them

one just came out digitally and one came out

digitally first But now is being published um

in a sort of joint venture between Centiscopes

all ages branched silver dragon books and scholastic

and that book comes out. I believe next Wednesday.

It's called paleo pets Right, next Wednesday.

Excellent, yeah. I'm super excited about that

because that's my first print creator on book.

Okay, so before we dive into everything, Robin,

talk about Family Pets for a bit, because I've

seen you post about it online, but I haven't

actually checked it out yet. Sure. Family Pets,

it's a six -issue miniseries collected into one

graphic novel. It's sort of... Lumber Jane's

feel to it. It's drawn by Sarah Dill, who has

this awesome, very, it's very much her style,

but it's also, it takes what we love about the

simplicity of Disney art and Pixar art and just

puts it together into her own comic book -y style.

It's just awesome. And what it's about is Tomasina,

who is this... 16 year old girl who's being brought

up on fantasy literature, you know, she's she

loves Harry Potter and she loves Narnia and all

that stuff because those books have sort of given

hope to people like her. You know, she grew up

with no parents. Her parents were killed and

she has this sort of almost perverse desire that

it's made her special, that she's gonna, that

her pain will be made valid by something magical

happening. You know, she is sort of a hoped against

hope that these books would come true for her.

And the book is sort of her... Coming to the

realization that it's not and that she suffered

an actual loss until There's a twist early in

the book where it seems that something strange

is gonna happen to her that her family has been

turning into pets and her pet snake has been

turned into a dashing young British gentleman

and he sort of leads her on this adventure to

find the French horn playing wizard who who who

did this to her and She has to grapple with the

realization that even when something magical

does happen, it's not what she expects. And she

comes to terms with her loss through that. Wow.

That sounds like it's really complicated, but

it sounds like it's really fun. You know, it's

weird because I'm mostly when you want to do

a young adult book, it should be an easy sale.

It should be an easy concept, but I just. I can't

really do that. The concept for me is just the

story, but the characters are what matters to

me. So it's super hard for me to try to sell

a story in so few words when I really have to.

It's the execution that gets into it for me.

Because if we talk about Robin Hood on the surface,

it could be any story. But what I think makes

Robin Hood stand out The heart and it's hard

to talk about that, you know It's hard to get

people to buy into something as a concept because

what's crazy to me is um, sometimes especially

in the earlier days of Robin I would go online

and see people Comparing it to arrow I've never

I've never seen arrow, you know, like I really

I've never seen arrow I've In my life. I've read

one green arrow book, you know, I'm not into

that title I mean, I'm sure I could be I'm sure

I could be but I just haven't gotten gotten into

it and it was so funny. I was like Do you guys

know that Robin Hood came first, right? Like

Robin Hood came way before green arrow. Yeah,

so what we're so Robin Hood was Errol Flynn for

crap's sake. That's way before green arrow With

Robin Hood, when you started, what was the process?

What were the, if you remember, what were the

meetings like of doing the story the way you

did it? Was it always going to be a female version?

Was it always going to be that? I don't know

how to really word the rest of this question,

but what, what were the, what was the process

in getting the book off the ground? Um, all right.

So back then, especially what would happen was

I would get. For a mini -series, I would get

a rough outline from Joe. Joe and Raven, usually,

with Ralph. Right now, what we usually do now

is Ralph, Joe, and I will together put together

ideas for an outline and then a writer will pitch.

Back then, they would hire a writer and give

them the first issue fully outlined. and a breakdown

of what they'd like to see with the rest of the

series. And I honestly was not used to that process.

So looking back, there's a lot that I wish I

would have challenged and changed, you know,

because I got the first issue outline of Robin

Hood. And honestly, it was not what I expected

or wanted to do with the title. What did you

want to do with the title? Kind of what I'm doing

with it now. in the ongoing series. But by issue

two, I was able to take over outlining it. But

by doing that, I was able to put more of my voice

into it. But I remember talking with Raven and

trying to get some aspects of number one changed,

but there was a sense that I shouldn't rock the

boat so early on. Um, but yeah, right. Um, so

Yeah, it's kind of hard for me to look back at

the first series because um, it really became

what I wanted it to be with wanted and um The

the age of darkness one shot and especially legend.

Um, so those two stand out to me as when I found

robin, you know, I um I found her voice and I

found what I could do with the series because

the first volume was like a revenge kind of series

and that's not what I'm into. I don't watch those

like a woman is wronged and has revenge movies

because they're almost always written by men.

They're almost always directed by men who don't

have a real sense about what... depicting violence

against what women means and how problematic

their depictions tend to be. So it's hard for

me to look back at Origin, and I've recently

gone back and changed some aspects of it for

a reprint of the trade, which I hope gets that

series closer to what I envisioned at first.

But yeah, and two, through... In time I learned

more about collaboration, you know, because then

I was more I was for some reason worried about

rocking the boat because I Didn't know anything

about comics. Really. I didn't know much about

Xenoscope But now I have weekly conversations

with Ralph on the phone and he and I I always

tell him what I feel about stuff and when Joe

Joe and I work on stories together now and it's

it's I've sort of um Learned that it's not rocking

the boat. It's It's collaborative, you know,

what I did is sharing ideas exactly and what

I didn't go in expecting was I didn't know how

how's that? So works early on and what it is

I was actually talking to someone about this

online They'll often see in some titles a few

credits that they'll see story by And a few names

there and then a writer and they didn't know

what that meant and I had to explain them It's

sort of like if you look at any major film, right

if you look at the Avengers for instance or Iron

Man you'll see that story by and then screenplay

by and You'll see it in TV too. So What I didn't

know back then but which I've sort of learned

now is that the atmosphere of Xenoscope is sort

of more of a TV kind of thing because Ralph and

Joe are Hollywood guys, you know, so it's a writer's

room atmosphere. You go in and there are some

books that we just break the story together.

We plot it together like a group of fairy tales

as an issue one -on -one on the writer. but who

develops the concepts are me, Ralph, and Joe

sitting in a room together. And that's new for

me, you know, to sort of collaborate in that

way. Because with Robin Hood, now, I mean, basically

since Wanted, but especially now, I just write

the plot, send it to them, ask for approval,

they give notes or they don't, and then I write

it. Same with Van Helsing. but with Grim Fairy

Tales and these books that we're hiring writers

on, we'll definitely break it together and really

get down to the nitty -gritty of collaboration

and what we want the book to be. Now I don't

know, and I'm not trying to look for approval

here, I don't know if you've listened to any

of the Robin Hood shows that I've done in the

past month and a half. Not yet, but I have all

the links saved. Okay. That's no reflection on

you. It's just been a crazy busy month. No, I

know. It's been a... No, absolutely. No, I understand.

It really shocks me if anyone actually listens

to my shows, so... But anyway, throughout the

episodes that my buddy Steve, Steve Megatron

is the co -creator of the GCRN with me, we constantly

question Robin's left eye. Okay. That's one of

the reasons why I kind of wanted to do this interview

with you because I didn't just want to ask online

and just get a response in passing. Right, right.

Okay, so For anyone that doesn't know and the

original series has been out for a while now

Robin Loxley got raped and her eye got cut out

After that happened She now has what I assume

to be and again, you're the writer You can correct

me on this some sort of magical golden left eye

and sometimes it glows and sometimes it doesn't

right What is the purpose of the is there anything

behind any kind of magic or power? Like I know

with her bow something with her bow. She can

see through it if she's using her magic bow,

but Why does the eye glow half the time? All

right. Well First, I do want to clarify that

we've taken that aspect of the first trait out.

There is no rape. I did not want that to happen

at first. And I regretted that I didn't fight

that harder. And when it was reprinted as origin,

I basically begged to take it out. I didn't want

it. It was weird for me too because there were

some readers who, some female readers whose voices,

who I remember said that that scene spoke to

them where she takes revenge later on. But then

there was an overwhelming amount of people whose

voices I trusted very much that did not like

that. And I, did not like that whole aspect of

the first volume. And it's sort of that reaction

made me, it sort of bolstered what I had originally

felt was that this is not the story that we should

be telling. This is not what we should be focusing

on because Robin is a hero. And what's crazy

is Take Batman or Spider -Man for instance. You

will never ever see a story where a male hero

is raped as their origin story. It's never gonna

happen. That will never ever ever happen. It's

happened to women characters, female characters,

so very often. It's problematic that it's such

a pervasive idea. So that Robin Hood... a character

I love so much was part of that, was just weighing

on me. So I definitely, the newer version of

the origin story is still there. There are still

aspects of it that kind of make me sad that I

didn't try to change more and that I hadn't spoken

up. Because I do feel that had I spoken up more,

I would have been hurt. I do think that. I take

full responsibility that I was not willing to

speak up more because I wanted the job and I

didn't know that I was able to. But considering

how often I've spoken up about things now and

how often I'm heard, I do think that I could

have been heard more. So that's why I took the

opportunity to change it when I could. As far

as the mythology of her eye goes, it's that when

she first comes to Myst in issue one, the end

of issue one and the beginning of issue two of

the first series, the only time you ever see

any sort of magical power come out of Robin is

right then when her eye patch is blown away and

she, a blast of power comes out of her knocking

one of the guards back. And we haven't ever since

seen that. And that was essentially her inner

power activating, you know, because the first

issue of Origin starts out and reveals that she

was originally born in Myst. So she is... Oh,

and for readers who don't know about... the mythology

of Grim Fairy Tales and Robin Hood. The idea

of the whole interconnected Grim universe is

that Earth is surrounded by the four realms of

power, which are Wonderland, Myst, Neverland

and Oz. So it sort of gives us the chance to

delve into all the public domain ideas as one

interconnected universe. So Robin's from Myst

and she didn't know it because she was taken

to Earth because she was destined to have this

dark future. And Shang, who is a warrior for

Mist's High Council, decides to spare her and

take her to Earth. So when she comes back to

Mist as an adult, that is her inner power, which

has been dormant, activating. So it's directionless

at that moment, but the ghost of Delfina, who

is killed, welcoming Robin to Mist... Delfina's

ghost comes to her and essentially she puts the

jewel from her necklace onto the bowl Robin took

from one of the guards and that allows um it

sort of gave a direction to Robin's magic because

Robin doesn't have control over it until then

and it it it enables Robin to see through that

gem instead of her eye, which she can't see through.

So a lot of people have challenged the idea of

Robin having depth perception because she only

has one eye, but that gem acts as her eye. And

so sometimes it glows based on the area that

she's in. If it's super dark, it's going to glow,

but if she's in a light area, it's not going

to glow. But that's definitely a matter of artist's

depiction, for sure. Okay. Yeah. No, I mean,

I was just curious about it because I wasn't

like, I understood when I was reading it and

reviewing it that I understood that it was, you

know, that she returned to Mist and she, you

know, was originally from there and born there,

but it just certain times as I was reading the

books, I was like, what's the deal? Right. Cause

I wasn't too sure. Cause I knew the bow was magical.

Right. I knew the bow was, but I wasn't sure

about her eyes. So, okay, so you went through

Origin, Wanton, and Legend, and by that point,

in those books, you introduce the Merry Men,

and then as the books go on, you kill them all

off, pretty much. Most of them, yeah, definitely.

Yeah. Kinda, kinda depressing. Yeah, it's pretty

brutal. Yeah, and I wasn't sure, not that I have

a problem with this or anything else, I'm like,

okay, so it's a female Robin Hood, where is Maid

Marian gonna come in? Because as we all know,

in the traditional sense of Robin Hood and Maid

Marian, that they're, you know, lovers and whatever

else. And I was like, oh, okay, so there's this

really awkward kiss and then there's this moment

and then you just move on. After this was after

Robin had saved Marion right and now they're

best friends and you know We're telling the whole

story in New York I did ask you on Twitter. I

don't know a month or so ago I think right before

I started the production on the on the podcasts

for the Robin Hood month spotlight Will they

ever return to miss and you had said no, they're

in New York. Yeah permanently Will they ever

go anywhere else on earth? Like Chicago LA Paris,

you know, I Don't know It's funny I tried to

get them to San Diego At issue 17. I was gonna

end the cabal story early and start a new story

with issues 18 to 25 and they were gonna go to

California but that was I pitched that when I

was in the Xenoscope office in December last

year. And Joe was big on superhero books. And

he was like, Robin is essentially our Spider

-Man. And Spider -Man, if Spider -Man has been

in New York this long, we can deal with Robin

Hood being in New York for more than 20 issues.

So I was like, all right. So he likes the idea

of keeping her where she is. I like the idea

of her not being in Myst. You know, I definitely

want business with Trilogy. Yeah, I do too. I

just figure as you're plotting the rest of the

series out, you know, may the series go on for

as long as you want it to. I just thought that

there might be some story in the future where

they have to, you know, do a whole... realm jump

back into mist for a while or I don't know because

like I said I'm only between somewhere between

20 and 40 percent into the Xenoscope library.

They haven't been to any of the other realms

right? They've only been between mist and...

Great. That would be cool. It would you know

what I once thought of pitching Robin Hood in

Wonderland. That would be so awesome. But I have

not gotten to that yet. Yeah, but actually I'm

Jeff Massey and I Massey is He was my college

professor and I got him a job writing comics

and I he's a Wonderful writer and he's been writing

their odds stuff and he recently wrote the Six

the 10th anniversary of red writing could one

shot and I really wanted to do a Robin Hood,

Red Riding Hood series with him. So he and I

put together a pitch for a five issue story where

Robin goes to LA and she and Red Riding Hood

are fighting against a gang of monsters there.

So I'm not sure if that's gonna ever come to

fruition, but it's a cool story and that has

Robin in California. for at least five issues

so I remember the thing was issue 11 you sent

her and Marion to New York Comic Con right right

right and they so even if it's just for an issue

they so need to go to San Diego Comic Con right

but no yeah after I read Jeff's because like

I said when I found out about the 10th anniversary

six issue special thing I'm like okay cool this

will give me a chance to look at some of the

other characters that Xenoscope has and I I'd

already loved read in Robin versus read the one

shot that you had done and I was like, oh, okay

This would be interesting and I read that and

I'm like after I read it. I think I immediately

tweeted Jeff I'm like we need a red riding on

going now Right We need one now, but I think

it would be cool For a miniseries for Robin and

read to team up again. I mean the one shot was

great. So Yeah, and I actually brought red back

She is in she's in Robin Hood number 20 and she

is in Robin Hood annual that follows the falls

after 20 So how far don't obviously not gonna

give any plot details away, but how far have

you plotted the ongoing? I've plotted it as far

as I've written it I Mean like projectionally

like issue 30 40 50 now through through um Through

the annual so it goes on it goes to 20 and then

you and then the annual Okay, and I'm beyond

that. I've not plotted in yet Okay So there's

plenty of times to do a whole bunch of stuff,

right? Yeah, I actually um, I spent all of July

just writing Robin Hood, you know, I usually

Trade off between series because right now I'm

doing them Grim Fairy Tales, Charm Season 10,

and Robin Hood Monthly, in addition to the Van

Helsing miniseries. So I have four titles to

write, but during June, I purposely got ahead.

And then I spent all of July writing Robin Hood

17 through the annual. And because that storyline

is essentially the fourth trade, and that one

ends the Cabal storyline. So it's essentially

the first major Robin Hood story come to an end

there. For the ongoing, yeah. Awesome. Awesome.

What are, for the ongoing, what is your, again,

not wanting to give story details away, but what's

your overall goal with it? The overall goal?

I have many different goals with the ongoing

and it's uh, it's shifted over time because If

I'm being honest, I originally wanted it to be

a romance book between Robin and Marion Okay,

but Couldn't get Xenoscope on board with that

and That's why I admitted Sam as a character

Sam Marion's girlfriend who um I'm very glad

about because Sam has become a very important

part of Robin Hood, and especially of this most

recent arc that I wrote. I really loved writing

Sam. But Robin Hood has shifted, especially the

character. When I realized that they weren't

going to let me do what I wanted to do with Robin

and Marion, I had to think of a much different

arc for Robin. And a lot of it has been Robin

coming to terms with who she is so it's um, it's

It's an exploration of New York City as a microcosm

of humanity and it's looking at all of the good

and all of the bad and Asking what if the bad

outweighs the good what what if it's not good

enough is hope that it can be better good enough

to move on or is or is it not and it's It's seeing

humanity also through two different perspectives.

It's Robin and Marion. And with Robin, she's

lived in New York for basically all of her life.

For the times that she wasn't fighting a war

in Myst, she was in New York. And she has seen

it at its worst. It's normal for her. It's normal

for her. So she's very pessimistic about what

she sees here. And then you have Marion, who

comes from Myst. Myst is a world years behind

ours, centuries behind ours. Marion couldn't

even come out in Myst. And then there's a scene

in Robin Hood 20, and it's a flashback to when

Marion first got here, and she sees a gay pride

parade, and she is stunned. And Marion sees the

world for all... All right, so Robin sees it

for all that it's missing, and Marion sees it

for all the progress, all that it's trying to

be, and all of the hope that it's going to be

better, that it's going to be a lovely place

someday, and it might already be. So yeah, it's

sort of those two perspectives colliding and

trying to figure out is one right, is there a

balance, is it worth it, is it not? sort of basing

your life decisions around that. And also roller

derby. Yeah, we can't forget the roller derby.

That's right. Definitely can't. When you when

you go to write Robin and Marion now, since you

weren't allowed to do the whole love thing with

them, I You know, from reading the ongoing, I

see it more as best friends. I see it more as

kind of like a family kind of thing. Is that

what you're now going for with those two characters

or? You know, it's it's hard to talk about because

but they're they're more to one another than

just best friends. You know, they're right. There's

even the way that they deal with one another.

There's an innate romance to it. And I think

that through creating Sam and having Sam be Marion's

girlfriend, it's sort of pushed me and pushed

the characters to sort of wonder about the nature

of that relationship because it's not a heteronormative

relationship. Marion's a lesbian and Robin, it's

not in text, but... to me as a writer, I write

her as bisexual. And Robin, right now though,

she's not looking for romance and she's getting

something out of her relationship with Marion

that she isn't getting elsewhere. And that's

sort of, it's not become a placeholder, but it's

become sort of all the energy that she would

direct toward a romantic relationship is instead

through Marion and it's... It might even mean

more to her because of that. So she's asking

questions about her own sexuality and her own

quest for happiness through how much she cares

about Marion and what this relationship means

to her. And if Marion and Sam are gonna last,

what losing that means to her. And if she does

have to lose that. So it's not a... sort of um

normal normal relationship that you would normally

read in a comic because it's It's not one that

we've defined, you know, and it's um, I think

that some readers have Wanted me to define it

more because I definitely don't want it to be

based on what I could do, you know, it's not

right. Yeah, it's not like a second best idea,

you know, I if If I couldn't find that idea in

writing Robin Hood that I was as in love with

as my original idea I just wouldn't write it,

you know, I would have someone else write it

right and if there ever comes a day where Did

the notes that I get or? The direction they want

Robin Hood in is different is so different from

what I love about her as a character and her

cast that I can't write it anymore, then that

would be that day and someone else will write

it. At this point, there are many books that

I could write at Xenoscope that I could find

that connection to. But yeah, I just wanna make

it clear that this is not like a second best

version of the Robin Hood ongoing series. It's

something that I definitely hold dear. I couldn't

do the original idea, but this is something that's

as important to me. And I think that at the end

of this storyline, especially the Cabal storyline,

readers will see... something pretty unique in

Robin and Marion. Very cool, very cool. As, you

know, I've seen you, you've had some editorial

stuff go on. I know you, I think you edited Red

Riding Hood one -shot, right? I did, yeah, I

did. What's the difference in the process of...

Writing and looking over your own work and then

sending it to whoever may or may not be the editor

if it's you or what's the difference as a writer

and an editor at Xenoscope as far as the process

of looking over the work and How many notes generally

would you get on a Robin Hood issue or how many

Don't give many notes at all Seriously, yeah,

I feel personally I If I'm working with a writer,

I want them to write their best version of the

story, not what I want to see. But I've been

lucky enough that with Jeff Massey especially,

I read his books as a fan, so to edit them is

just so easy because he has such a great sensibility

of what he needs to see. So sometimes with editing,

especially with Jeff, it's less me giving notes.

and more me saying hey you know like this artist

is going to take care of it so don't worry about

it you know don't worry about all these notes

because the artist is going to do so well um

and then at the end we just sort of um yeah just

all collaborate together and um what i do with

the books that i edit is that i started doing

mass email chains um instead of um i remember

back especially when i first came on zenoscope

um we're working with some editors who didn't

want the writer and the artist in direct communication.

And what I have found is that if you put the

writer, the artist, the colorist, and the letterer

in one email chain with the art director and

with me working as the editor, it's going to

be a much more like a jam session -y collaboration.

Fun hangout thing, you know, and it's much less

work that way because I'm say for instance All

right, someone the artist gets a page in if someone

finds a mistake before me then Then it just makes

it so much easier cuz um, it's so many eyes on

one page You know, cuz it's all these people

who have read the script who are who are So familiar

with the story and the in and out of the story

because the artist is gonna be drawing it The

colorist is gonna be coloring and the writer

wrote it Of course, they're more familiar with

it than even the the editor whose one job is

to be so familiar with it But I can never have

the connection to that book that say Jeff Massey

does because he he created that story right there

so I think that um making sure that he has the

connection to the artist is essential. And it's

how other companies do it. And it's something

that I've wanted to start doing here. And I think

that it's been super successful. Absolutely.

So yeah. But as far as the notes that I get on

Robin Hood, it's interesting because it's different

with me giving notes because I don't own any

of these books except the ones that I did. Joe

and Ralph own Robin Hood. They own Grim Fairy

Hills. They own the Grim Universe as a whole.

So they are more hands -on with even the writers

that I'm editing because all the scripts have

to go through them. As opposed to me who I can

chime in with, say a writer is having a character

act out of character or having them say something

that I feel they wouldn't say in that point of

time. I could write a note to Ralph and Joe saying,

hey, what do you guys think about this? But in

the end, it's on them to give the notes because

the world belongs to them. So on Robin Hood,

I'd say six times out of 10, no, seven out of

10, I'll get good script approved, great script

approved, and then I'll approve it for art right

there. maybe two out of 10, I'll get, hey, here

are some very minor notes. If you apply these,

you can go on to art. Then one out of 10, I'll

get, can we rewrite the whole script and just

do it this way instead? And then I'll have -

How many times, okay, you said one out of 10,

but what books did that happen on? That happened

on Robin Hood 13, 14, and 15. Wow. Yeah. Uh,

so, yeah, basically, um, they wanted, um, more

action in those books and I, so, and I wanted,

um, and, and looking back, especially 15, I feel,

um, because I, since I care so much about craft

and about story, um, And so, so much about the

characters. These characters, Robin and Marion,

especially, mean the world to me. So it's never

just... It's never as businessy as it sounds.

It's never as much... We redo the whole script

and keep nothing. It's never like that. It's

more... When I get that note, I'm on the phone

with them almost right away just talking about

ways that we could... sort of find a middle ground

between what they want and what I want because

I didn't um I write the outlines and then if

the script is different I didn't change the idea

to say hey fuck you guys you know no no no I

did that because something inspired me while

I was writing the script and it got away from

me so sometimes it's Ralph and Joe um when they

give notes that are more But when they give notes

that'll take a longer time to apply I don't think

they do so lightly, you know, they know how long

it takes to write a good script. So it's never

um it's Not an exaggeration to say to do the

whole thing over but it's It's sort of them saying

here's what I want and here's what you want So

what is the middle ground, you know, like how

can we both be happy here and sometimes? With

15, for instance, 15, I was able to gut and keep

a good amount, but enough that the story is dramatically

changed. With 13 and 14, I basically made the

original 13 and 14 into issue 13 and then wrote

a whole new 14. And those changes... Well, I

originally didn't want to do it, of course, you

know, because when you write something the last

thing you want to hear is You know, how about

we don't do this? Yeah You kind of want to be

done But I can't say that I'm sad it happened,

you know because um Because they had those notes.

I thought about things that that especially happened

to Marion and Sam She's 13 that have had a dramatic

dramatic impact on the rest of the entire arc,

you know Yeah, so like it's like I said, I just

read 13 today and I'm like Wow, I can't believe

Sam said that first the spell then the passion,

right? So yeah, I'm I'm not even said that it

happened, you know, I just right no i know i

understand that i'm just saying just the the

whole illusion to it i was like wow that's a

funny and i'll have noticed about your writing

is that you know you you had you've already said

today that you've had some people compare robin

to arrow to this tbc the tb character steven

amel's arrow and when i'm reading her in a monologue

i don't hear arrows sarcasm like his arrows to

die he's he's not I hear more of a combination

of Nightwing and Batgirl, honestly, when I read

Robin's inner monologue, from the origin trade

to now. Cool. Because her inner monologue, when

you're writing to explain stuff to the readers

or her opinions on things, there's a line in

one of the books where she's like, I actually

think it's in 13, where she's like, well, I have

no real plan, but if all else fails and I'm...

paraphrasing here, I don't think this is the

line, when all else fails, just start shooting.

And it's like, you know, um, so there was, I'm

trying to think when we did the podcasts, um,

I think it's in legend. Yeah. It, it has to be

in legend because it's after she stopped killing.

Um, and I think that's kind of why people maybe

compared her to Arrow. Because of the whole revenge

thing and she was out to kill people Okay, and

then she was to see the thing with arrow is and

I know you haven't watched the series He had

a five -year mission or whatever the heck He

was supposed to do he was on the island anyway

He had this mission to come back and basically

avenge everybody that wronged his city and how

he was doing that was killing them Oh, okay,

and then he eventually He eventually came around

to yeah, no more killing and I think maybe that's

why as people were reading the original series

That's why they they equated it to arrow But

for me in legend when she said actually it wasn't

even me that brought the joke. It was Steve She

had said something about okay Time to take a

bunch of arrows to the knee and he Steve read

that he's like Oh Skyrim joke nice. Yeah funny

is um that line I was seeing that line pop up

in so much in so much um social media you know

it was it was all over tumblr and um yeah i picture

robin as someone who who plays games who has

a who's who wiles away hours of her nights on

tumblr so i thought Alright, let's I know you're

the writer, but I don't have the artists with

me But we've got to talk about the art for the

for the overall series the whole thing right

we had Larry Watts on Pretty much everything

up to legend right right and then um he he did

legend and then he did the first issue of the

ongoing series okay, and Was there I don't I

don't want to get into a personal reason is there

any any big Just general reason why the change

did he want to go do something else or oh, no,

you know It's um, definitely want to say it's

not personal personal at all. I talked to Larry

every day Okay, but there just came a point where

Larry had drawn so many issues of Robin That

yeah The day came when he called me when he was

finished with number one and he was like, uh,

how about we get someone else for a while, you

know, he was just He's burnt out. Right. And

not that he didn't want to draw Robin, but just

that he had done so much and he was just so busy

because he has multiple jobs. So the idea of

doing a monthly book was a lot different than

doing a miniseries. Because he had done Origin,

Wanted, and then Legend. And the weird thing

about Legend was that it started, that came out

in March of 2010. Man, 2013, I think. So, wait,

no, 2014. It had to be 2014, okay. But anyway,

right? So, but then in February of 2014, he also,

he drew the double -size Age of Darkness Robin

Hood one -shot. He went right into Legend, and

then as soon as Legend was done, the first issue

of the ongoing series, so he had drawn essentially

two trades worth of material. in in six months

and to ask him to keep drawing a new issue every

month while doing all of his jobs was crazy and

um okay and he since has uh drew uh the uh the

the new army of darkness series with colin bunn

for dynamite and he's doing a bunch of cool stuff

now but i i do want to say that um he is coming

back to robin hood um he This is my first time

saying this, I think. He's going to be drawing

the annual. It's going to come out March of next

year. And Roberta is finishing out the DVD cabal

storyline, which wraps up with issue 20. And

then the annual, which is sort of this, it's

a double size issue and it's the epitome. It's

sort of a tribute to everything that's been going

on with Robin since the first series. everything

that we love about Robin and her characters in

one issue. And when we realized that was going

to be going on, I was like, we got to get Larry

to do this, you know? And he's doing it. So March

will see both a double -size issue 20 by Roberta,

who is finishing out her storyline, and a double

-size Larry issue. So I'm super excited for that.

That's going to be awesome. Yeah, I love I mean

I love what Larry did through the first you know

the first three trades of the series and then

we have the ongoing and and I didn't really I

mean obviously there are changes between artists

because not every artist does the same thing

but Honestly, I mean Roberta has pretty much

kept the same kind of look for Robin little things

have changed here and there I think I think my

favorite part of what Larry did in the first

issue for the ongoing and how you wrote it was

the because Marion's new to earth. She doesn't

know anything about things that aren't you know

medieval sharp items and the whole opening scene

of no Robin no go back to the scissors go back

to the scissors and just the whole thing where

you see the apartment and Larry you know created

her apartment very well and you don't see what's

actually happening and then we see the reveal

of her new haircut and I was like oh that is

so cool thank you that's awesome But I yeah,

no, I mean man, I love the entire Entire series

to this point. Like I said and what like like

you'll hear in the podcast when you go back and

listen to them We do question a few things we

do question a few of the art choices here and

there but it's nothing like We're not gonna sit

there and bash it because like I said like This

what you and Xenoscope are doing It has to be

For me the most original stuff that I've read

since I've been reading comics full -time In

four or five years now because you're taking

ideas like Robin Hood and made Marian and the

Merry Men and not necessarily turning them on

their ass, but bringing new depths to them and

Not necessarily sticking to the traditional like

I could see if you were just gonna do a traditional

One -shot story. Yeah, sure. It'll be Robin him

and his merry men and going off on his own Oh,

we're gonna create a whole new story and a whole

new set of characters so I think that's about

it unless you have anything else you want to

Spill to the fans. Um, I Mean Robin Hood 13 is

out today. I'm pretty proud of that one and Yeah,

so we have Robin the 13 out today. It's a it

features lethal Van Helsing And then Van Helsing

has her own miniseries coming out August 19th.

It's called Van Helsing versus Dracula and That

that follows Van Helsing out of Robin She her

two -parter in Robin is issue 13 to 14 and then

she she goes on her own adventure And then she's

back in Robin full -time as of issue 17. So she'll

be like the after Robin Marion, The Rotter, and

Sam Van Helsing will be the fifth main character.

Oh, interesting. Awesome. Where can the people

interact with you online, sir? Twitter, I'm at

Pat Shand. Tumblr, I'm Pat Shand. Facebook, you

can search Pat Shand. I have a page and a friend

page. If you friend me, just message me and let

me know who you are. So I don't know who you

are Instagram I am at patch and so it's basically

kind of across -the -board Patch Andy and I'm

a chin if you want to send me an email. I'm Patrick

each end at gmail .com For pretty all right really

straight forward Yes, very straightforward. All

right. Thank you so much to mr. Shand Ladies

and gentlemen, the full bag is going 80s month

for August we're doing all kinds of stuff with

IDW titles transformers gem Might be a snake

eyes miniseries in there somewhere. I don't know

yet So that's what's going on in the pull bag

for this coming month. You can follow at geek

cast radio on Twitter Head on over to geek cast

radio comm check out all of our content along

with this interview and others Thank you so much.

Make your great escape into comics and we will

catch you next time. Hey, this is Pat Shands,

writer of Robin Hood, and you are listening to

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