Interviews – David Wise

Hello there! I'm Megatron. What's your name?

Orion. Orion Pax. It's really a thrill to meet

you, sir. Well, it's finished. You may not recognize

him. He is no longer Orion Pax. Now he is the

first of our new defenders, Optimus Prime. I

was wrong, my friends. I admired Megatron merely

because he was powerful. I failed to see how

he used that power. Hello, this is Mike TFG1

Blanchard from the Geekcast Radio Network, and

this week in Geek, today I bring you a chat with

Transformers He -Man and Teenage Mutant Ninja

Turtles writer David Wise. Hello, David. How

are you? Fine. How are you? I'm doing pretty

good. This is actually, you know, I've been a

huge fan of Transformers since I was a kid, and

it's like... Wow, David Wise friended me on Facebook,

and it's like, holy crap. Only because you asked.

Yes, yes. It's not like I sought you out. Right,

no, right, no. Yeah, yeah, I sent you one, you

sent one back. So, yeah, but, okay. Can you tell

us anything about the upcoming projects you might

have going on right now? No. Okay. How's that?

What show? Did you enjoy writing for the most?

Of all of them? Yes. Well, I have to stop here

and say I'm getting a little bit of an echo.

Okay. On my end, but it does sound okay on your

end. Sounds fine over here. Do I sound all right?

Yeah, you sound fine. Okay. I just keep hearing

little snippets of myself after I finish talking.

Okay. They all have their different pleasures.

There are some that I actually genuinely did

not like writing. I did not like writing He -Man

for a number of reasons. And I have very few

memories of writing He -Man. When they interviewed

me for the DVD, I was telling them, you know,

you're lucky if you can get anything out of me

because I sort of blocked this one out. It's

been wiped from the memory banks. But I would

say of all of them, my... Well, actually, the

show in which I think I did my best work was

a show that literally nobody saw called Cadillacs

and Dinosaurs. And it was based on the series

of, I don't know if it was comics or graphic

novels, but Xenozoic Tales by, I think, Mark

Schultz. And it had originally been developed

for television by Stephen D'Souza, the guy who

wrote Die Hard. And I took it over in midstream.

Right. And we had, I mean, we did one that had

a story by Harlan Ellison. And it was just a

great show to write for. And nobody has seen

it. There's a couple episodes out on VHS. And

I'm just praying one day they'll bring it out

on DVD because it's one of the few things I've

done that I actually don't mind sitting down

and re -watching. I thought I did a really good

job on it. But, I mean, pound for pound fun,

it would have to be the turtles. I did so many.

I was involved in it right from beginning to

almost end of the original series. I've often

said that, see, originally in the comic book,

there had only been like five issues, I think,

of the comic out at the time I developed it.

Right. And they had no distinct personalities.

And when I spoke to Fred Wolf about how we're

going to make this work, I said, I mean, the

first thing you've got to do is we've got to

differentiate these turtles. And so basically

what I did was I kind of took my own personality

and broke it into four pieces and gave a piece

to each turtle. So my sarcastic side went to

Raphael. My geeky gadget freak side went to Donatello.

The serious side I'd like to be, but probably

am not. never going to be went to Leonardo. And

probably the party fun side I would like to be

and will probably never be went to Michelangelo

and he's of course the one who became Cowabunga

or who adapted the catchphrase. So most of my

personality is in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

And then that said, second favorite would be

Transformers because It was the first show where

I got to do so many episodes that I actually

sort of started working almost like theme and

variations and started doing very, very strange

outside -the -box episodes like Kremzik and The

Girls Who Love Powerglide. And at the time that

we did it, I was a giant robot freak. I loved

Japanese animation, which was largely unavailable

in the U .S. then. This was 1984. Right. And

I had been to Japan in 1980 and seen all this

stuff and just fallen head over heels in love

with it. And so the idea of being able to write

for robots of various size, including Paul, was

very exciting to me. So Transformers would be

second favorite, but the Turtles is really the

most me. And actually, in terms of just sheer

high -quality work, it would be Cadillacs and

Dinosaurs. Oh, cool. Going back to the Transformers,

do you have a favorite episode that you wrote

of Transformers? Golly, it's sort of, I have

like, you know, that's like Sophie's Choice.

Which of your children do you love the most?

I think on terms of, like, execution and the

way it ultimately came out, War Dawn is probably

my favorite episode. I know that's a lot of people's

favorite episode. Some people, Microbots is their

favorite episode. I think that was, like, the

second episode I wrote, and I sort of went...

Okay, if you like that. But everybody likes the

bit where the Decepticons get drunk on Energon.

Yeah, yeah. So that's a popular scene. And then

a lot of people love Key to Vector Sigma, the

two -parter. Right, right. The Aerial Bots and

the Sonicons. That one was a lot of fun, too.

But I would say of all of them, War Dawn, because,

first of all, all the time I was writing it,

I was afraid I'm contradicting some... Because

I was... doing the origin of Optimus Prime, I

was concerned that I was contradicting something

that had been done in a previous episode. Because

remember, these episodes were all written concurrently.

People say, well, this is out of sync with what

that guy wrote. Well, that guy was probably writing

it at the same time I was writing mine. How are

we supposed to know? There were dozens of writers

and only a couple of story editors to kind of

keep everything centralized. So, you know, therefore

you get the thing like, you know, my origin of

the Constructicons. Yeah, there was like three

or four different versions of, or different origins

of the Constructicons. Right, of which mine was

one. And of which I like to think mine was the

best one. But there were so many other things.

That didn't bother me so much as the fact that

nobody told me in that episode that Omega Supreme

we're talking about The Secret of Omega Supreme,

that Omega Supreme talked... I mean, here's the

sort of character stuff we got. You know, Autobot,

Omega Supreme, personality, Cassiturn, and that

was it. He had to write the character based on

that one word. Cassiturn just means, you know,

a guy doesn't talk much. It doesn't mean a guy

who goes, energy, low, rest, necessary. You know,

I mean, I had no idea he talked like that. So

I had him talking like a regular guy, and then

somebody rather at Sunbow's end, you know, had

to put in the script after I turned it in a line

where Optimus Prime, you know, basically says

to him, Omega, just for this one time, couldn't

you talk like a normal guy? Yeah. And he goes,

oh, okay. And I hated, I mean, it would have

been, I never would have had him narrate the

whole damned episode if I had only talked in

basically two -word sentences. Right. But, and

I don't really like the idea of, you know, suddenly

he can just talk like a normal guy. Where did

that come from? Why doesn't he talk that way

all the time, then? You need to give it a reason.

True. But, at any rate, I've gotten way off script

here. What were we talking about? No, no, it

was just your favorite overall episode of Transformers.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Going back to... Well,

it was Wardawn because Wardawn, number one, I

thought it was going to get shut down, and I

was really liking it as I was writing it, and

I thought this... This origin I'm giving Optimus

Prime is going to contradict something, and I'm

going to get in trouble, and they're going to

kill this episode, which they didn't. And the

other thing is I really like the time travel

story in it because it's kind of unique in time

travel stories that I can think of where you

have two simultaneous timelines going on. You've

got the Autobots on Cybertron in the present,

and then you've got the Aerialbots in the past,

in the way in the past. And they're taking place

at different points in time. but not in different

points in space, because they're both stomping

around the same area. So they've been shot back

in time, but not in space. So there's things

that tie it together, like they find the Headless

Guardian robot, and you suddenly realize this

ruined dome that the present -day Autobots have

been, that all the action on Cybertron is in

the presence of taking place in, is the dome

that blows up at the end of the sequence in the

past, and things like that. I really liked how

stuff like that tied together. And then there's

the origin of Optimus Prime and that whole, you

know, Year of War is a nightmare, you know. I

literally wanted, the idea behind that story

was we created these guys a couple episodes earlier.

I wanted them to be immature, to not understand

things. And I thought to teach them a lesson,

I'm going to send them back in time and have

them observe the first shot in the war of the

Autobots. versus the Decepticons. And literally

the first shot in the war pretty much is Orion

Pax getting blown away. Didn't you, wasn't it

something, I believe it's on the Rhino DVD said

season... It would go a little more violently,

yes. Right. Wasn't it supposed to be like a lot

more violently? Well, I mean, bearing in mind

that basically he's an extremely intelligent

vacuum cleaner, you know, or... You know, I mean,

he's basically a machine. Is it violent? I don't

know. But, yes, it was basically what happened

in the original is that Megatron shoots him in

the shoulder and blows his arm clean off, grabs

the arm before it hits the ground, swings it

around, and decapitates him with it. Oh. Wow.

Honestly, that was probably a little over the

top. But sometimes, you know, look, I knew they

were going to pull it back. I thought, let's

see what they'll let me get away with. If they

do half of this, I'll be happy. And they did

maybe a third to half of it, so that was fine.

That was a case of overriding something. So at

least you had some impact with what they left

behind. Oh, yeah. What was it like working on

Batman the Animated Series, and was this the

first superhero -type cartoon you wrote for?

Good Lord, was it the first superhero cartoon?

Well, of course, Turtles was, like, five years

earlier. Right. And they're sort of... No, no,

no. I had worked on superhero shows. I had written

for the revival in 1980 of Space Ghost and...

Oh, okay. I had also written an episode of a

live -action Wonder Woman. Oh, did you really?

Yes. And an episode of Buck Rogers as well. Cool.

So, no, no, no, no. I had had experience writing

for superheroes. Heck, when I worked at Marvel,

I had the office. I was right next to Stan the

whole time. Stan Lee the whole time. Wow. I'd

love to get an interview with him. Well, let

me tell you something. He'd love to give it to

you. Yeah. I have no idea how to reach him these

days, but if you, you know. Anyway, there you

go. So, writing on Batman, the animated series.

It was a little scary because everybody was sort

of, the staff guys, We're making a big deal about,

you know, kind of raising the bar, and it's not

going to just be for kids. We're going to write

it adult. Right. We're going to try to do Miller's

The Dark Knight. We're going for very noir. I

think they called it Dark Deco, which I always

called Modern Noir because it's not Art Deco.

It's Art Modern is the look that they used for

that. So that was great. What was weird was I

never got to write for the Joker. And Jerry Robinson,

the comic artist who created the Joker, is a

guy I've known since I was about eight years

old. And I kept saying to them, guys, I know

Jerry Robinson. He created the Joker. Let me

write the Joker. Because everybody wanted to

write the Joker, so I never got him. And instead

I got the Clock King, and I was not real thrilled

when they said, you get to do the Clock King.

You know, it's like, what's next, King Tut? You

know, Egghead? You know, these characters that

were peculiar to, you know, the 60s series. Yes.

And then doing the Riddler was very difficult

because they were determined not to do, you know,

Riddle Me This Batman. Right, right. On the old

show. So, I mean, the Riddles, I actually had

to come up with Riddles that were real Riddles.

And some of them I thought were actually pretty

good, but that was very hard. That was, like,

maybe the hardest episode of television I ever

had to write was that Riddler thing because of

the Riddles. That was just a huge pain. But it

was, you know, I mean, obviously it was very

gratifying in the long run. Right. What other

writers in the TV, film, cartoon industry would

you like to collaborate with that you haven't

yet? Okay. Collaborate with that I haven't. I...

Well, I've never worked with Len Wein and Marv

Wolfman. Um... I assume you know who they are.

Yes. And they are good friends of mine. I play

poker with them every Friday night. But for some

reason over the years, we've sort of gotten close

and then kind of missed each other on terms of

working on shows. So it would be nice to work

with those two guys. Yeah. Recently there was

a new teenager. I think I would really elevate

the level of the quality of their writing. I

think it would be very good for them. It would

be a good experience for them to work with me.

Right. Well, you know, Marv did bring back Optimus

Prime, so... Yes, he did. Well, yes, under orders.

Yes. Well, true, yeah. Oh, by the way, if I had

written the Transformers movie, I never would

have let them kill Optimus Prime. At the most,

what I would have done... Well, never mind. No,

I would have told him... I loved Optimus Prime.

He's a great... great character. He is, as Jeff

Scott, who is a very prolific animation writer

who did some of the very early development on

Transformers, said he's Abraham Lincoln. And,

you know, you don't kill off Lincoln unless you

want to be John Wilkes Booth. Come on. Very true.

Very true. I knew that that was going to be,

you know, and they were basically about, well,

this is next year's toy line and we've got to

get the old toy line. We're not selling any more

Optimus Prime. Right, right. You know, it's funny

now because that original toy, that original

toy sometimes on eBay will go over $1 ,000. No

kidding. Yeah. Maybe I'll sell mine. Recently

there was a new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

movie called TMNT Forever on TV. Did not see

it. Did not see it. Okay, you haven't seen it.

Okay, my question was going to be what did you

think of it? Well, I'm sure I could find some

way to see it online if I were really determined.

I think it's probably better for my blood pressure,

as I said to that mother guy. Actually, it was

on that Moonbase interview that I first even

heard about its existence. Okay. I haven't seen

it. I'm very proprietary toward the Turtles.

I mean, it kind of bugged me. I saw on some fan

site or somewhere. somebody asking either Kevin

or Peter, well, which of the four turtles are

you most like? You know, which one is really

you? Right. And I see a question like that and

I go, well, none of them are you. They're me.

I meet them that way. They weren't like that

way in your comic. Exactly. I get very proprietary

towards the turtles. I don't really, there's

very few people I trust with them. I worked with

some of them on the original series. There's

people like Jack Mendelsohn and whatnot who,

You know, did a very good job with them. But

anyway, I haven't seen it. I'm sure I'll see

it someday. I also have not seen any of the movies.

Oh, wow. Really? Why should I? Okay, no, that's

more than fine. Okay. According to TW2005 .com,

the new Transformers cartoon will be CGI like

Beast Wars and Beast Machines was. What do you

think of this, and would you want to write more

Transformers stories? Well, the truth is that

Transformers is one of the few series that I

actually wouldn't mind returning to. It's been,

you know, 20 years or a little more. And I think

there are still stories you can tell with that

concept and with those characters. The CGI works

really well for the robots. To me, if you look

at my shows... Very frequently it's the robot

-human interaction that's at the core of what

I was writing. It's certainly at the core of

the feature films that they're making now. And

I did see the first Transformers film and liked

it very much. Although I sort of felt like the

only reason anybody's caring about any of these

robots is because of the work we did in the cartoons.

True. If you just wiped the cartoons from your

memories and went in and saw that, you'd be going...

Okay, why does this guy like Optimus? You know,

Bumblebee would be literally the only character

who made sense. But, at any rate, so CG is fine

for the robots. It doesn't work so well for other

things. And in the case of, like, Beast Machines,

you know, the concept really had to be tailored.

The series concept and what the stories were

about had to somewhat be tailored for the fact

that it was in CG. Right. So CG has come a long

way since that series was done. So it would depend

on the setup. But, you know, look, it was one

of my greatest successes. It's one of the things

I've remembered for, you know, I would love to

have some sort of involvement with it. Right.

And actually Turtles, too. You know, for some

reason they said you can go back and do the Turtles.

Right. And do it your way. Right. I would say

sure. And My Way, by the way, is not ha -ha,

you know, cartoony all the time. My Way is actually

a combination of real action adventure with,

you know, that kind of off -the -wall, you know,

comedy. You know, kind of, it's on my mind because

I saw it last night. You know, it's kind of like

Zombieland. I mean, without the... gore, obviously,

but Zombieland is, you know, you take away the

jokes and it's basically a zombie movie. True.

And that's what I always try to do with the Turtles.

If you look at the bulk of my episodes, you can

cut out all the jokes and you still have a basic

action -adventure superhero show there. Yeah,

very true. And, you know, really, for me, the

darker the better. I always liked taking it,

trying to make... the threat as serious as possible

so that because the realer the threat is, the

braver the turtles are for laughing in the face

of it. True. And then you also have the situation,

which we did a couple of times before, which

is when Raphael goes, okay, this is serious,

you believe it. Yeah. Wait a minute, Raphael

thinks it's serious? Yeah. They're in some shit,

you know. Yeah. Anyway, next question. Goes back

to the new cartoon for Transformers. Have you

been contacted about writing for Transformers

Prime? We held a seance, but no spirits contacted

us from the beyond. I have not been contacted

specifically about that. Okay. The end. Okay,

that's fine. If you want me to be contacted about

it, I wish I had an address for you to send your

emails to. Well, that kind of ties into the final

question here. If people want to find out more

about you on the Internet, where could they go?

Well, there's always Google. A, friend me on

Facebook. I'm on Facebook as David Wise. There's

about a million David Wises. If you dig around,

you'll find me. I also have a blog, which is

not so much career news at this point as it is

just things that are of interest to me. And that

web address is, hold on just a second here, kids,

boys and girls, the web address is princessface

at blog, no, sorry, I'm going to, PR, I -N -C

-E -O -S -P -A -C -E dot blogspot dot com. Or

go to Blogger and search for Prince O'Space,

one word. Okay. One of my favorite Japanese science

fiction films, Prince O'Space. Prince O'Space,

one word. I'd like to thank David Wise for taking

the time to talk with me, and we will catch you

around the web. Okay. Thanks a lot, Mike. Yeah.

Keep talking to you. Bye -bye. Hey, what happened

to you guys in the past anyway? Oh, not much.

We learned a few things about Megatron and about

you, Optimus Prime. Or, um, should I say Orion

Pax? You. So you five were the ones who saved

me. Would somebody tell me what in blazes this

is all about? Ask Optimus Prime. He knows. All

right. Spill it before I go crazy. Well, it all

began about nine million years ago. Oh, great.

It's gonna be one of those long stories.