Interview with Mark Russell on Writing for Comics

Welcome to the Comic Con Sears podcast, the podcast

that believes that comics are for everyone. The

key is finding the right one. Today, I am very

honored to have a very special guest with me

today. He is the writer of many fantastic comic

book series, including Existage Lefts, The Snagglepost

Chronicles, The Flintstones, and upcoming Judge

Dredd series, including the novels as well as

God's Didn't Point at You and Apoc for Now. Mark

Russell, thank you so much for joining me today.

Thanks for having me. I appreciate you taking

the time. As I indicated, kind of the thesis

of this podcast is that comics are for everyone.

And with that, I tend to, when people come on,

get an idea of their background of comics in

the sense of their lack of background or what

got them into them. So I thought that'd be a

good place to start in the sense of, you know,

what is that got you into comics as a fan and

or as a writer? Yeah, well, as a writer, I'm

a pretty much a newcomer to comics. I didn't

really start writing comics until 2015. when

I started working on a series for DC called Prez

about a teenage girl who gets elected president.

That was the first comic I'd ever written. And

I have to admit, my background in comics as a

fan is pretty lacking compared to most comic

book creators. Most comic book creators eat,

live, and breathe comics. They've been reading

comics forever. They know the canon for at least

the... the big two. Uh, so I was, I was really

kind of not, I was not much of a comic book fan

growing up. I didn't read a lot of comic books

and I wasn't nearly as familiar with comic books

as most other creators when I started. So I had

to do a lot of catching up. And I mean, there

are a lot of comic book creators. I really love,

uh, I, I, you know, and always read, of course,

the big ones like Alan Moore and the Watchmen

and loved it. And I read a lot of Daniel Klaus,

who's still probably my favorite comic book creator.

But in terms of like the big two, I hadn't read

a lot. And I'm finding, though, that there's

a lot. I mean, this is not really a surprise

to anyone anymore. There's a lot of really wonderful

writing, like capital L literature in comics,

even in like the superhero franchises that you

normally wouldn't expect to find that sort of.

cutting or really insightful commentary on the

world around him. I've had a lot of catching

up to do as a creator, but at the same time,

I've really enjoyed it. Sometimes when somebody

tells me that they haven't seen a movie that

I love, I sort of envy them because they now

have the chance to watch a movie for the first

time that I've loved for years. I kind of feel

like that... that's me as a comic book creator

like i get to discover these things for the first

time which i didn't really grow up on and i i

hope that you know and i think my appreciation

is a lot fresher for these things and maybe somebody

who did just grow up consuming them yeah i think

i think that's a good point i think even you're

reading your comics i think there's a fresh voice

in there obviously especially with something

like the flinchstones or prez you obviously have

these franchises you're working with that have

a history but there's no I think reverential

treatment. It's very much. You're able to kind

of approach them in a new perspective. I think

it's really good when creators are not familiar,

super familiar with comics coming on board and

you get some really new and fresh voices into

the medium. Yeah, I agree. I think, yeah, I don't,

I don't really know enough to be reverential

and it's probably been an asset. Yeah. Since

I, I think these are the sort of comics I like

too. When I read them there. They're not the

comics that are just written by people who are

just sort of commenting on other comics or riffing

on other comics that they've read in the past.

I tend to like the ones that are people writing

about the real world, things they've experienced

or other interests they have outside of comics

and then using comics as a prism to translate

them into a story. But to me, that's what's meaningful,

using comics as a medium to talk about the outside

world, not just comics to sort of regurgitate

the formulas we've already seen a hundred times

before. Definitely. Is that typically your process

when you're kind of constructing your narratives,

where you have an idea of the message or the

themes that you're going for, and then you try

to figure out how to shape the narrative around

it? Or do you do more like an inside -out approach?

within your you creating a story you kind of

find out okay this is where i want to approach

this this story or this is the the themes i'm

going for just curious how you approach your

overall you know creative process yeah i um just

kind of do whatever works and sometimes either

or both of those sometimes there's something

very distinct i want to say there's some something

i want to say and so i come up with a sort of

parable yeah to say that that works in comic

book form and then other times I just have a

story, or even not even a story, just a moment.

As I start writing it, I start working inside

out, and then from there, I figure out at the

end what the story was actually about. I know

it's like... God's Disappointed in You and Apocrypha

Now, including the Flintstones, you're looking

at often where society is beginning, the early

stages, where we kind of went wrong to start

with. And then with Perez and I'm assuming the

upcoming Judge Dredge series, you're looking

at where we're going. When you're looking at

constructing kind of your parables, as you call

them, is that approach any different from looking

at two different perspectives in that way? Yeah,

it's a little different in that I have to...

I have to work within the franchise itself, the

strictures of the franchise. But it's the same

in that I tend to think of this as like, what

are the central problems of this world? What

is it in this world that people would be having

to deal with? And the Flintstones, because they're

creating civilization, they're making it up as

they go along, the problems they're going to

be encountering are basically those of gullibility.

or naivete, not understanding the implications

of coming up with television or live news or

electing leaders because they sound like they

kick ass. Unfortunately, at naivete, we don't

seem to have shed 30 ,000 years later. But yeah,

it's very different than talking about a civilization

that has already made those mistakes several

times and is just sort of dealing with the aftermath

of them. I think that a key point in writing

any sort of dystopia is that chances are the

people living in the dystopia don't realize they're

living in a dystopia. So to them, this is just

normal. This is just life. But to the reader

at home, they obviously realize how messed up

everyday life is for these people. So I try to

remember that when I'm writing a futuristic thing.

To make those characters almost blasé to the

sorts of things that horrify us that are going

on in their world. Whereas the Flintstones, everything

was brand new, so I tried to do it. The opposite,

where like everything kind of strikes them with

a sense of wonder and newness. Interesting. It's

like establishing a normalcy where the other

one, as you mentioned, the naivete of everything

new and fresh. Right. Try to make the horrifying

seem mundane. And then, you know, and also the

mundane seems spectacular. You wonder looking

at today's world if that's... all too common

if whoever's writing our story might be taking

the same approach. Yeah, right. I think we probably

are at one of these points in history where we're

some weird confluence of naivete and dystopian

resignation, largely because I don't think we've

come to terms with the implications of the new

information economy and social media and how

we're being... used by them how we are have become

the product not the users of of these things

and so in that sense we are like the Flintstones

but at the same time it feels very much like

it's it's devolving into a dystopia like Judge

Dredd very true it's very and with that you mentioned

like social media we are in a world where like

social political commentary is everywhere like

you can't kind of escape it and obviously you

know your books as you mentioned they have that

leaning and i think it's very effective i think

it's the way you approach it is sharp and especially

for a comic i think it shows how how well comics

can approach like the social commentary of today

for you what is like the the key to effective

social commentary is it the ability to convey

an interesting message or the ability to be kind

of see things from different perspectives like

Because we see a lot of it, and most of it doesn't

tend to be very good. I was just curious, what

do you think the differentiating factor is between

good social commentary and maybe heavy -handed

or missteps? I think a lot of it boils down to

simplicity. Like, how do you take a complicated

issue and reduce it down to one line or one point

that will hit the reader like a lightning bolt?

To me, that's always the challenge of good social

commentary is like how not to make your commentary

as convoluted as the topic often is itself. Do

you notice certain topics that it's easier to

do that with than others? Yeah, and I think it's

a lot easier to do it the less angry you are

about it. I mean, there's lots of things I write

about which disturb me and which I feel passionately

about. But I try not to write about them while

I'm feeling that way because it clouds my objectivity

and it multiplies the number of things I want

to say about it. I try to look at it. Even though

there are things that deeply disturb me or that

I feel very passionately about, I try to cool

off a little and then look at it like I would

if I were an anthropologist visiting from outer

space. Like if I had to explain in an elevator

to my boss on... you know, the planet Las Vegas,

what is wrong with the human race? How would

I do it? You know, and, and usually, you know,

just come up with a line or two. Yeah. I noticed

that reading, you know, God's disappointed in

you in the sense of where you were boiling down

in the entire Bible. And clearly there was jokes

being made and things of that nature, but there

was a lack of nastiness. As you, as you said,

there was a more of a matter of factness to it.

And it didn't seem like it's almost like when

you're. talking about a family member it's like

you you know them well enough to approach the

things most people don't but you also know there's

a line that you don't want to cross because then

you like you said you lose your object objectivity

notice that too and like the last issue of the

flinchstones the conversation that they have

about religion i thought that was a really key

piece did the work you did on those two series

that they often correlates with one another since

they kind of covered some similar topics Yeah,

and I mean they all kind of are ultimately mouthpieces

for my own sort of views on the world and who

we are as human beings. But yeah, that's very

much by design. I want to – even if I think something's

wacky, I want to at least understand why people

feel that way or why they believe in what they

do. And so that forces you into this sort of

role of – attempting to be objective and think,

well, how would I see it if I were them? Basically,

I guess objectivity is probably the wrong word.

What I really am striving for is a state of empathy.

Help me see the world through their eyes, even

if it's something that I really just do not understand

or like at all. Help me see the world through

the eyes of the people who do. And then I can

perhaps make a better point about... about them

and maybe even also something that is that is

sympathetic to to what they're trying to do which

is ultimately what we're all trying to do understand

the world around us but in a way that at the

same time sort of shows its flaws they're they're

what they what they believe you mentioned empathy

and sympathy does that begin with designing of

the characters because i feel like you know reading

like the flintstones for example You were able

to make well -rounded characters out of a bowling

ball and a vacuum cleaner that I had never been

that emotionally tied to. Well, I guess not technically

an inanimate object, but in their world, yes.

Is that usually how you feel is the most effective

way of doing that, by making them complete characters

and allowing you to empathize with them in the

plight that they're going through? Well, I think

you have to remember that everyone's sort of

the hero of their own story. Yeah. And that even

a minor character, to them, they're not a minor

character. And so I think when you're writing

about a world with minor characters, you have

to remember that all we know is what we see before

us. And the minor characters, they're going to

think that the story is about having to live

in a closet when you're no longer useful as a

vacuum cleaner. Or this big guy taking the bowling

alley and just rolling you down that alley. at

these pins for reasons he never bothers to explain

to you. So I think in a lot of ways that also

kind of like underscores this sort of feeling

of sort of being lost in a universe we did not

create that we all sort of feel. And I think

it allows us to empathize with the vacuum cleaner

and the bowling ball because we're all ultimately

grasping with the same problem. The rug has been

pulled out from under us for reasons we don't

know why. For a character like Judge Dredd that

your series is coming out soon, is that a little

bit different? Because he, to me, seems like

a character that, at least in his head, has control

of everything or attempts to control it. Is that

approach for a character like that any different

than it would be for someone that has a different

perspective? Well, you're right in the sense

that he's not dealing with a lot of existential

uneasiness. He's the man who thinks he understands

the world and knows what to do in every situation.

So he's definitely a different character to write.

But I think ultimately it's the same process

in the sense that I try to see the world through

Dredd's eyes. I try to see why the law is basically,

he's a fundamentalist for the law. why the law

has become his religion and why it's so vital

to him and why it's such a, you know, it's basically

all of his entire identity is wrapped into enforcing

the law to the extreme letter. Yeah. I know with

Perez and the Flintstones, you went in with not

that much ties to the original property. Is it

similar with Judge Dredd where you're kind of

going in with open eyes and approaching it, not

really a fan first, but just seeing something

new that you get to play around with? No, it's

a very different process in the sense that when

I took on the Flintstones, I was given pretty

much carte blanche. I watched the Flintstones

cartoons when I was a kid, but I didn't really

remember that much about them, and I didn't feel

really tied to that at all. But writing Judge

Dredd is very different in the sense that you

have to be very careful with the franchise. You

have to really be within the Mega City One, Judge

Dredd universe when you're writing. You don't

get the same freedom. But that, again, is such

a rich environment to be working in. And Mega

City One is like one of the greatest sort of

world building enterprises in the history of

human literature as far as I'm concerned. that

I didn't mind. I didn't mind having to work with

those restrictions because I just found it such

a fascinating place where so much can happen,

and especially where so much could go wrong.

You've mentioned previously, when it comes to

that, you talked about Mega City 1 and its creation

and the planning that would go into something

like that. Is that going to be a key part of

your series? It's not really a commentary on

urban planning, but it definitely factors in.

It's really... a glitch in urban planning that

kind of sets the whole premise in motion in the

sense that they'd planned this, this, uh, self

-sustaining, you know, affordable city block,

the Patrick Swayze block. And there was going

to, you know, it was going to have like a factory

and it was going to have like a soy farm and

everyone in the block was going to have a job

working there in the block. And it was going

to be the sort of like model, like affordable

housing, kind of how they had originally planned.

The slums, the tenements, tenement housing, the

projects in New York, they were originally designed

in the 20s and 30s to be this sort of utopian

idea that we're going to have this great housing

and it's going to be modern and affordable and

it's going to be close to all the jobs. But it

didn't really pan out that way. The jobs moved

away out of the cities. The tax dollars went

with it, the jobs. It was a white flight. People

moved out of the cities. So the people who moved

into these buildings, these projects, kind of

had the rug pulled out from underneath them because

the promises that led them to live there were

never really fulfilled. And the citizens of Patrick

Swayze kind of undergo the same thing where the

factory was never built, the soy farm never materialized.

And so then they're left, they're one asset in

this building being that has like a waste tunnel

that runs from the building through the wall

of Mega City One. So they just, to bring in money

into Patrick Swayze Block, they're forced to

like start taking in toxic waste and sewage from

like other buildings and other sectors. And they

basically just become a dumping ground. And it

becomes, you know, it's the story of this model

housing unit turning into like a nightmare overnight.

And it becomes the site of a mutant invasion

because of its neglect. It sounds pretty fascinating.

Regarding that, I know it's kind of a very tonal

shift in the sense of question, but it is Patrick

Swayze block. So I do have to ask, you know,

do you have a favorite Patrick Swayze movie and

why is it Roadhouse? You know, Roadhouse is that.

Yeah, I think Roadhouse is what kind of gave

me the idea to call it the Patrick Swayze block.

Interesting. Because, you know, he's like this

sort of like hero, heroic, like sort of good

looking tough guy. Yeah. In a way that I think

that this is kind of how the judges and Mega

City One envisions itself. Like, oh, we're like

Patrick Swayze. We're kicking ass, you know,

and not even getting our hair messed up in the

process. When, in fact, there's a lot going wrong

in Mega City 1 just because they can't be bothered

enough to look at the details of what they're

doing. Yeah, yeah, that's very true. Was it difficult

not making endless amounts of Tango and Cash

references? It's like right there for you. I

ended up not using it, but I did have this one

scene where the guy who kind of runs the gang

that runs Patrick Swayze. is like telling his

soldiers in like sort of a pep speech that this

building was named after an ancient warrior in

the 20th century who was respected and feared

everywhere he went. And then they go into battle

like yelling, like, Patrick's lazy. But, you

know, it felt wrong when I started finishing

the script, so I took that scene out. I could

understand that. Still effective. At least, you

know. It's a good story to tell. Yeah. Nice little

extra. Maybe in the director's cut. I know that's

a big thing now. It'll be the deleted scenes

along with, you know, Dom DeLuise popping up

dressed like a superhero. We can only hope. We

can only hope. One book we haven't talked about

that much is Snagglepuss, which is currently

out. You know, issue four just came out recently.

Looking at issue three, you had a really good

quote in there regarding the difference between

movie stars and... movie actors like how movie

stars are who we see yourself who you want to

be where movie actors are who we see ourself

as and it had me thinking is do you think in

a way that's why superheroes can be so are so

popular because they kind of exist in both worlds

where you know we see ourself as peter parker

but we want to be spider -man so they kind of

fulfill both of those roles yeah and that's kind

of you know i was talking albeit metaphorically

for you know kind of what i've experienced in

comics yeah and that um there are comics that

are and this is not to denigrate either either

kind but they do play two different roles yeah

and and one is what i try to do like talk about

the world talk about show you who you are and

this is what is happening and um but i think

that the the role of superheroes in general in

you know most comics is really more aspirational

Like, this is who you wish you were. Definitely.

I thought that was a good point. And it's like

you said, it's saying it in the most simple way

fashion. But with that, there's a lot of poignancy

there. Yeah. And so it was sort of indirect commentary

on, you know, my role in comics and the role

of comics and telling people, you know, about

who they are or giving them a vision of what

they want to be via this. tv show where they're

talking about acting yeah and with sunkelpuss

too was that a similar process where you had

more carte blanche to do what you wanted you're

kind of filling in a background that was really

never there before yeah exactly um i didn't really

have any restrictions from you know working with

the franchise in fact um they they asked me if

i could include more characters since that's

when i started like creating roles for agi doggy

and peter potamus uh all these sort of minor

hannah barbara characters to sort of populate

the story but yeah there were really no restrictions

on what i could do with it because as you say

there was really no backstory for snaggle plus

there's no continuity to screw up. Honestly,

I knew nothing of Snagglepuss before I was reading

the series. The only thing I knew about it was

this catchphrase. I was like, is this canon?

Not that it matters. I was just like, this is

rather fascinating. Was there a reason that you

focused in specifically on the 1950s, the Red

Scare era? Did that seem like just the most fruitful

avenue to tell that story? I focused in on it

because I tried to ask myself, well, if I'm going

to write this Snagglepuss comic, and originally

my only concept that I wanted to write about

was like him as sort of a closeted gay Southern

Gothic playwright. All his catchphrases are theater

related. So he obviously has a background in

theater. And, you know, he's this gay icon. He's

clearly like a closeted gay character in the

cartoons. So I thought, well, what would that

be like if he was an actual person living in

the 50s? You know, obviously he is like some

reason. He has some, like, background in theater.

Was he forced to, like, leave theater because

of something? What sort of thing would force

you to leave theater or, you know, show business

in the 1950s? And, of course, that led me to

the Red Scare or the Lavender Scare. So the story

began sort of constructing based upon that central

conceit and the time in which I, you know, he

was alive. Hearing that character, like, I never

would even connect the dots, but I feel like

it does open the door for a lot of... like you

said, deconstruct it and figure out where it

came from. Yeah, I mean, Exit Stage Left is obviously

a theater reference, and Heavens to Murgatroyd,

I had never heard this phrase on Cytus, so I

looked it up, and it's actually like a Rodgers

and Hammerstein reference. Oh, wow. Oh, this

is a guy who really knows the deep cuts in theatrical

history, so he probably was like a playwright

or an actor or something. Hanna -Barbera was

a lot more in the theater than I realized, apparently.

Yeah. Speaking of, you talked about with those

series that you were given a lot of freedom.

Was there anything that you did specifically

that you thought, okay, they're going to say

no to this, but I'm going to try it anyways,

but ended up actually pushing through and you

were able to do it? Yeah, pretty much everything

I've done, I thought, this is going to get kiboshed.

It's gotten through. But a few things I tried

to do, which I thought were completely uncontroversial,

that they did make me go back and change, which

is kind of a strange experience. But basically,

they let me do whatever I want to do with the

caveat that it cannot get them sued. So anything

they feel is likely to get them sued, they made

me go back and change. But otherwise, I had complete

freedom. And apparently, some estates have some...

stars who are no longer alive were pretty litigious

so i had to go back and make some creative changes

to the characters who were based upon some of

the real people interesting it's interesting

that there's higher regulations for you know

writing a comic than you know running for electric

office that's it's odd yeah it's uh you know

it's strange to me because these are well -known

historical figures it's like are you know how

can you not you know how how should they be why

are they entitled to more anonymity than, than,

you know, people who aren't, you know, well -known

historical figures. Yeah. You would think it'd

be in the sense of, it'd be more the current

people that you're bringing up rather than the

historical aspect of it. But I guess it. Yeah.

That's kind of what I figure. It's like if, if,

if, uh, it's, if someone can sue you for writing

a story about somebody who is like a documented

historical character or personage. then how does

anyone write historical fiction? That's a good

point. I know that the Martin Luther King estate

is very strict when it comes to stuff like that.

I think the answer is it's not so much about

protecting the legacy of these people as it is

trying to see if they can get in on the money,

which I don't think there's that much money in

this comic. But yeah, it's a shame because it

really does sort of restrict. creative freedom.

I know that's a topic that often comes up within

comics and the idea of copyright because how

that's been changing and where the public domain

fits in and how that's really impacted people's

ability to do things like that regarding satirizing

or bringing in other properties. I understand

protecting your work as an artist and not wanting

somebody to be able to use your work. But these

are actual people. These are people who existed

and lived in the public eye. I don't think they

should be given the same sort of protection.

And I think it's ultimately sort of chilling

on free speech. It's like you have to be careful

what you say about famous living or dead people.

Yeah, it goes back to the point of like, you

know, writing in the sense of you don't know

you're in dystopia, something like that is a

situation where we don't really think about all

that much. You mentioned that you came in from

the outside in the sense of, you know, not a

lot of experience with comics. And now you've

written a few series now and you're writing another

one. Is there anything that you've learned in

the process that, you know, you wish you knew

when you began that you've now that you've kind

of been able to have a few experiences with different

mediums? Yeah, probably the best. Lesson I've

learned in writing comics is to trust your artist

with as much creativity as you allow yourself.

So don't overload panels with descriptions of

all these things happening in the panel. Just

try to give them the essentials and let them

come up with cool background details or placement

of characters on their own. Really, you need

to view it as a writer as, first and foremost,

a visual medium. And secondly, as a collaborative

process. And I think once you internalize those

lessons as a writer, you're a lot better off.

So is a comic script more akin to that of like

a TV script or movie script rather than it is

to an actual narrative or novel? Yeah, it's much

closer to like say like a play or like a TV script

than it is. a novel writing and that you try

to put as much of it in the visual frame as possible

and as little and sort of exposition and, and

the narrative. Are there any other properties

out there that you still have a desire to maybe

one day right now that you've been able to be

in the world of comics that you'd like to be

able to tackle? Oh yeah. Yeah. There's lots of

them. I would love to write a Swamp Thing series

for instance, because I think there's like all

kinds of room for, you know, commentary on. environmentalism

and what's happening to the ecology of the planet

and how far we can push nature before it pushes

us back and I just love the character I think

that in Alan Moore's hands it was like this sort

of gothic horror masterpiece and I would love

the chance to write a character like that I think

that would be fascinating. I know a lot of people

have been hoping that we would see another Swamp

Thing series because it does seem like looking

at where we are today, he would be a character

that you could utilize with very timely and universal

messages considering his background and where

he's been. Yeah, I would hope DC would see it

that way. They did let me write an eight -page

Swamp Thing story for the Young Monsters in Love

special in February. It came out. on Valentine's

Day. So I did get to do at least that much. Nice,

nice. You got a little bit at least. Yeah, and

I also wrote a couple of 10 -page Superman short

stories for the upcoming Action Comics specials

that are coming out next month. So that was gratifying,

too, because Superman's another character I've

always thought would be really amazing to write

because, to me, he's different than the other

superheroes. In the sense that not only just

because he's so much more powerful, but to me,

the real superpower is not the powers, but the

fact that he has them and yet remains sort of

good. The real superpower is keeping it all together

in his head, despite the fact that he's got all

these awesome powers. Wow. So without being in

the Action Comics 1000, what... or the different

specials? No, it's not in the 1000, but they're

doing a couple of other action comics specials

in May. So there's one with the, and Jill Thompson's

done the artwork for it. I forget what, I don't

know if it's called anything special. I think

it's just action comics special number one. And

then apparently there's going to be a number

two at some point, and there'll be another story

in that. When you went into that character, I'm

guessing there was probably a lot more restrictions

on you regarding the story you would have to

write. Yeah, well, I mean, I pitched the stories

beforehand, so I knew the stories would fly because

they approved them before I even started working

on them. But yeah, there was a lot more editorial

feedback on, like, Superman wouldn't say this.

You know, you've got to, oh, we need to have

him shown this way. It's a lot more sort of like

caretaking of the franchise, which I completely

understand because, you know, you're playing

with the crown jewels at that point. Definitely

makes sense. Were you surprised with, like, you

know, speaking of that, with the Flintstones?

I know there are major Flintstones fans out there,

but from what I could tell, it seemed like it

was universal praise that considering how fickle

our fans can be about things changing, that there

wasn't more of a complaint out there that, you

know, these Flintstones are not my Flintstones

or anything of that nature. Yeah, you know, it's

kind of like what happened with the book I wrote

about the Bible. I was expecting death threats

and all kinds of opprobrium. But no, the death

threats were pretty disappointing. They didn't

really materialize. And I think part of it is

that the people who normally would be offended

by what you're doing to the franchise, when they

see it, realize that even though they might not

like it, it might not be what they remember or

loved about the franchise. they at least respect

the fact, I think, that I'm coming at it from

a place of affection. That I'm not trying to,

like, assassinate the Bible Lord, the Flintstones.

I'm really just trying to, that I really genuinely

care about the characters in my own way. Yeah,

I think that's certainly the case. I think ultimately,

too, if it's good, people will be happy. And

I think that was... the expectation of not going

in knowing, okay, what is this? What is this

coming up? I know personally I was a fan of Prez.

I saw that was coming up. I'm like, where is

this going? But the first issue I think was one

of the most talked about issues that I could

remember, especially when just the utter surprise

of just how good it was. Not to overblow it,

but I thought it was just – Well, thanks. Yeah,

I think the number one phrase in my reviews is

like – This is actually good. I'm not kidding.

Which, you know, on the one hand, it's flattering,

but on the other hand, it's like, why do they

need the equivocate on it? But I understand.

It's because people have very low expectations

a lot of times for A, a writer they've never

heard of, and B, a franchise that maybe they

think is supposed to suck. I think there's some

apprehension to licensed properties, but I feel

like we're seeing what DC really... push forward

a lot of their Hanna -Barbera stuff and Looney

Tunes stuff and have been doing some event of

things with it the last few years. So I think

that's kind of turning the cord. Yeah, it's made

me, I think, a better fan, too, because, you

know, things that I would just kind of be dismissive

of in the past, I'll give a chance now. It's

like when somebody announces a crossover between,

you know, this is not a real crossover, but,

you know, oh, we're going to do a Fantastic Four

and, you know, Scrooge McDuck crossover. You

know, normally I'd be like rolling my eyes, but

now I think, well, you know what? I'm the guy

who wrote the Flintstones. Maybe someone will

do a good job with this. You know, it's made

me more open to trying things that normally I

would just kind of like dismiss without really

giving it a chance. And I hope that's what it's

done for other people, too. I think so. And that's

kind of the reason this podcast exists, too.

It's about trying to push forward comics that

people don't normally go to, not kind of getting

them out of just that superhero realm and letting

them know there's tons of other things, nonfiction,

a lot of different ways to approach the medium.

Now that you've been in it for a few years, do

you find yourself, are there any current comics

or graphic novels that you've grown to appreciate

and read on a regular basis? Yeah, oh man, I've

been reading the Ed Piskor's X -Men Grand Design

comic. Oh yeah, that was amazing. It was just

fantastic. I think it's kind of a similar thing

to what I did with the Bible. It's like, let's

get you caught up on what's happened for the

last 2 ,000 years. And yeah, it's really great.

And I also really enjoy... the uh obviously everyone

on the planet does like tom king's batman has

been great and uh and yeah um one of my favorite

graphic novels in recent years uh and i'm sure

i'm not i don't know if everyone's read this

but it's not like a real obscure one uh daniel

clow's patience brilliant like uh like nobel

prize literature brilliant so So, yeah, there's

a lot out there. I've been reading a lot more

comics than I used to just because I'm in the

medium now. And I'm continually surprised at

how much really good work there is in it. There's

a work of someone like Robert Crumb. He also

obviously has a lot of books that are centered

on the Bible, like Genesis. Were those books

that you look to for your work at all or that

you've had the opportunity to read? Yeah, I read

the Robert Crumb Genesis in a lot of ways. I

feel like he did the opposite of what I did in

writing the book about the Bible. Yeah, that

he is taking every single chapter and magnifying

into this sort of like visual epic. Yeah. Whereas

I'm taking like whole books, you know, and condensing

them down to like a page or two. Who's, I gotta

ask, was it your idea or God's disappointed in

you and Apocrypha Now to design them as actual,

like, make them look like a Bible? It kind of

came out of a discussion between myself and Shannon

Wheeler, who did the cartoons, and Chris Starros,

who was the publisher of Top Shelf, who published

them. We decided, we came up with about 10 different

titles for the book, but we decided the only

one we really liked was God is Disappointed in

You. Because it sort of summarizes the entire

Bible in one line. But then if we go with that

title, how do we let people know what this book

is, that it's actually a retelling of the Bible?

And so the next logical solution was, well, what

if we just designed the book to look like a Bible

with the title God is Disappointed? So the title

kind of beget the design idea. Interesting. I

think you'll find this funny in the sense of

I was actually reading it at work during a break,

and there was people next to me having a conversation.

And they were having some choice language, and

they looked over and they saw me reading, and

I think they thought I was reading the Bible,

and they began to apologize for their language.

And I just went with it, but I thought it was

pretty humorous if they just only knew what I

was actually reading. Yeah, I will say the thing

I like about the book is that... like selling

it at a con is that you see a lot of people do

double takes as they walk by because the corner

of their eye, they just think it's like a Bible.

And then like they notice the title and then

they had to do a quick double take and they,

they usually get something to come back and read

it. Yeah. It's a real gratifying thing to have

happened. I could imagine. Yeah. I was, I was

taken back by it myself when I, when I first

picked it up. I'm like, is this getting the right?

Yeah. I'm like, all right, well that's, that's

fantastic. Yeah. I think there's a lot of people,

this book, is not for and who will not like this

book but i feel like everyone who walks by it

feels the need to at least pick it up and open

it to a page and give it a chance yeah i i would

have highly recommend it i even like i have i

come from a my family i very religious and they

they thought it was humorous as well so you got

that yeah I have to say that I think Christians

have really embraced the book in a way I didn't

think would really happen. But I think it's because

they see I'm not trying to make fun of the Bible

or denigrate believers of the Bible in any way.

I'm just trying to understand why the people

who wrote it wrote it the way they did. And I

think that they appreciate that because it's

something they don't get from other Christian

literature. It's like a lot of times when you

read books about the Bible that are written by

people who believe in the Bible. you feel like

you're visiting a used car lot. It's always sell,

sell, sell, get them to sign on the line that

is dotted. And so it's refreshing for people,

even people who do believe in the Bible, to talk

about it in a framework where somebody's not

trying to close the deal. Yeah, and I think it's

too approaching some of those stories that you

like. you realize are actually in the Bible that

you don't, like you mentioned in the opening

of the book, that people don't tend to talk about.

And you realize, wow, that actually happened

in the Bible. And if they ever made a movie out

of the Bible, it would probably be rated like

triple X or something like that, just with everything

that actually went in. It would not be for kids.

In fact, I had one lady ask me a signing. She's

like, oh, would this book be okay for kids? And

I said, well, it is the Bible, so no. Yeah, there's

some pretty graphic medieval stuff that happens

in there. People say, I'm going to get biblical

on you for a reason. There's a reason why that

metaphor works. Very true. But yeah, those are

pretty much all the questions that I had. I did,

again, want to thank you for taking the time.

And as I mentioned, we talked about a lot of

your material that is out right now. If people

wanted to follow you or learn more about your

work, what would be the best way to do that?

Best way is probably to follow me on Twitter.

I'm at Manrus, M -A -N -R -U -S -S. And then,

yeah, just keep an eye out for titles. I'm working

on Judge Dredd. Comes out on May 30th, issue

number one. And yeah, they're in Snagglepuss

number four is in stores now. Nice. Is your Judge

Dredd, is that a miniseries or is that going

to be an ongoing or is that still undecided?

It's a miniseries. It's going to be four issues

long. Nice. Very nice. Yeah. So definitely check

that out. And as we talked about some of the

other material today. So thank you so much. Well,

that was my interview with Mark Russell, and

I want to thank him again for taking time out

to come visit my silly podcast. I enjoyed speaking

with him a great deal, and I hope you enjoyed

listening. If you did like this interview and

you want to listen to more Comic -Con 2 years,

there's a lot coming up that I'm really excited

about. I'm going to be continuing the conversation

regarding Harold County as Matt from Simplistic

Reviews returns as we talk about Volume 2. Also

upcoming, I'll be talking with another Matt,

my fellow cinema geek, Matt Fridley -Sent, about

the Silver Surfer series done by Dan Slott and

Mike Allred. excited about that conversation

it's a great series so there's a lot to dive

into there and of course this is coming out the

same week as action comics 1000 and i'll be certainly

covering that in the upcoming weekly recommends

podcast along with a host of other podcasts coming

up that i'm really excited about and should be

able to announce shortly anyways thanks all for

listening and always remember comics are for

everyone the key is finding the right one until

next time thanks for listening