Star Trek The Original Series vs The Next Generation

Geekcastradio .com presents GCRN Wars. Two geek

topics will be challenged. The ultimate battle

will come to pass. One shall stand. One shall

fall. Hello and welcome to episode 13 of GCRN

Wars. I'm your host as always Optimus Solo and

joining me for this war is Steve Megatron Phillips.

Hello. Good day. Hello. And Fridley Scent. Hey

there. Back for another war. And Mike the Birdman

Dodd. Hello sir. Woo! Hi. And today we will tackle

a classic science fiction argument. We will force

Trekkies to face off against fellow Trekkies.

The topic today is which series is better, Star

Trek the original series or Star Trek the next

generation. So let the games begin. Anybody have

any opening things to say before we get into

the categories, Mr. Birdman? Man, the classic

series is so boned. Before any of you guys saw

the script, before anybody saw any of the categories,

etc., just thinking of the two series in general,

traditionally do you have a leaning one way or

the other, Steve? It depends on the category.

Without having to look at it, I'm torn between

both because those are my top two. Track series

for multiple reasons What about you Matt? Did

you have a preference going into this that you

thought before you started breaking it down?

Honestly before I looked at the script that I

thought exactly what Birdman was saying was that

TNG is gonna win this hand over fist But I don't

think it's as close. I think it's closer than

that when I look at the script We have yet to

have a blowout, I believe. I don't have all the

scores right in front of me, but I'm pretty sure

they've always been pretty darn close. Which

brings up a good point that we should get to

before we get completely into this one. We still

need your help for episode 12 of GCRN Wars. If

you listen to that one all the way through, you

will hear that that one did end in a... Complete

deadlock a complete tie. There's a poll up on

the website that will continue to run until we

record episode 14 So once we record episode 14

that poll will close and we will deem a winner

in the pirates versus ninjas War that we had

so go to GCN and find the web page and vote in

that poll so we can get a winner on that All

right that business aside Anybody else have thoughts

before we get into category one? No. All right.

Then let's start it off here with the first category

for Star Trek versus Star Trek. And that is,

of course, the iconic ships, the USS Enterprise

versus the USS Enterprise. Who wants to start

on which was the more impressive ship? Well,

it depends. You want me to break this down via

what it accomplished or the technical details,

because the galaxy class starship would kick

the ever living crap out of the Constitution

class. however you whichever way you'd like to

go sir okay well let's talk about the galaxy

class starship which is the uss enterprise which

was i think the second galaxy class ship constructed

because there was the original uss galaxy which

was the uh prototype um well the phaser banks

on this thing i think their type x phasers would

cut right through the other enterprises whole

like it was nothing. The photon torpedo loads

are significantly larger on the galaxy class

starship as opposed to this one. Mind you're

also talking about a hundred year difference

in technology as well as the original enterprise

didn't have replicators, the transporters didn't

have as long a range, science facilities were

not as advanced, holodecks need I say more, computer

power, storage capacity. I mean the galaxy Galaxy

Class Starship could effectively move civilizations

if it had to. Like they could evacuate planets

with the proper support. A Constitution class,

not a way in hell could it accomplish something

like that without significant support. Plus it

just was, there were more people on board a Galaxy

Class Starship. I mean, I think minimum you could

staff... the galaxy with 170 people. I think

that's what the technical stat is. I'm not 100

% sure on that. In fact, where's my technical

manual? I'm just looking on my shelf here. I

don't see it. But if the Constitution did have

one advantage over the galaxy is that it did

require less of a skeleton crew, but required

more maintenance because you saw how often Scotty

was always in engineering. Something was always

breaking. You could make the same argument for

the Enterprise D in the galaxy class line of

starships. But with the the invention of isolinear

chips doing a lot of their computing power. A

lot of that, a lot of the wear and tear was kind

of reduced because they could identify problems

before they happened and kind of do preventative

maintenance, whereas the other way around, it

really wasn't possible. Let me see, Steve, what

am I leaving out here? Steve, what does the Constitution

have any, give me the upsides of the Constitution.

Well, the upsides of it is its maneuverability,

its ability to be jury -rigged in whatever fashion

that they need, not saying that the Galaxy class

couldn't do the same thing because they did it

on many occasions. However, the the Constitution

class, for one, it got a nice upgrade that actually

happened, not an alternate timeline like the

Enterprise -D did, and it's just the fact that

there was a lot more that you could Customize

more or less with it Basically, I think there

were a lot more Configurations you could do with

the with the Constitution class There was a game

that came out about 15 or 20 years ago now when

you really look at it I think it was called um

It wasn't Starfleet Academy. It was like stars

Star Trek battles or something it was done by

interplay in like 98 or something like that and

I remember there being a crap ton of Configurations

you could do with the enterprise and the galaxy

class sure you you could do a lot of configurations

But I didn't see many more. I think the galaxy

class was a little bit or the Constitution class

was a little bit more versatile Matt is this

one a slam dunk? I you know like they're talking

specs and numbers and things but like if you

look at them just look at them the Constitution

looks way more what I think of when I think of

classic sci -fi whereas the the D it just looks

like a giant frumpy space city it I definitely

have to agree I if I had to compare the two the

the original Constitution version Wins for me

every time only because it was the first and

it just it it just looks like the space exploration

Vehicle whereas the other one screams 90s or

screams 80s So if you could have flying saucer

if you could if you could either Captain one

or if you could have a model of one If you're

looking at it in that respect does that does

that change the way you look at it? Which one

would you rather have or which one would you

rather pilot? Galaxy class man holodecks I'm

not leaving and you and you all know exactly

why if you if you had to have a model of one

The Constitution does look a little cooler. I

will give you that one. I I definitely Swing

definitely towards the the Constitution class.

I've always been a fan of it my favorite iteration

is the the a that from the original series, because

it still counts. There's definitely a lot of

different ways to look at it, and I guess you

could look at it. Which one looks cooler? Which

one can do more? Which one did more? I guess

it depends on which way you look at the ships,

but I don't know if you guys have your minds

made up or not, but we'll go around and see if

we got votes. Steve, I'm assuming you're voting

for the original series, Enterprise? Definitely.

Okay. Matt, what do you think? I'm going to go

with the D. I just think it doesn't look as cool.

It doesn't look as cool, but still gets your

vote. I'm with you for a couple of things that

Birdman was saying. As far as in a fight, it

wins. And there's a lot more things to do on

board. So I've always kind of leaned towards

the next generation version. What about you Birdman?

Oh, definitely Galaxy. Definitely the Enterprise

D. Alright, so that does it for the first category

we're gonna get into a series of categories that

is comparing the Characters of these two shows

and then we'll get into some other stuff towards

the end outside of the characters But starting

off obviously makes sense We have to do the classic

comparison of the captains of these ships that

we were just talking about So we're talking about

James T Kirk and we're talking about Jean -Luc

Picard Matt why don't you start with this one?

What's your first thoughts when you think about

these two individuals? Well, they're both very

cocky, confident guys, which is something you

kind of want in a TV show, Captain. I don't know

how good it'd be in an actual military setting.

But I don't know. I think of Patrick Stewart.

He's this huge Shakespearean actor and known

worldwide. And then you've got William Shatner.

who's known worldwide for other reasons the Shattisms

yeah um like there's definitely some disparity

between acting skill but i don't know if there's

disparity between captaining skill you know they're

they're different guys and they approach things

differently um and i know that i don't know i

think of Patrick Stewart is huge but i don't

know if he's as well known for his Star Trek

role as Shatner is you know There may be a reason

for that too, as you mentioned. If you're going

to look at this one from a purely acting standpoint,

we don't even need to discuss it. Patrick Stewart

is a far superior actor than William Shatner

in any way, shape, or form you look at it. But

come on! Because he's British. More than that.

Birdman, what do you think when you think about

these two guys? I think TJ Hooker versus Professor

X is a pretty easy fight. Just saying. Honestly,

for me, it comes down, I mean, actors, Patrick

Stewart, I was going to call him Captain Picard.

In terms of captaining Picard without a doubt,

because yes, Kirk, you did accomplish a lot,

but you pissed off the Klingons more than once.

Picard didn't start any wars and he defeated

the Borg. And he made Q spare humanity Kirk sure

you may have saved the Federation Picard saved

humanity let that sink in for a minute boom headshot

the other thing is from a personality standpoint,

even though they're both captains, and they're

both from Star Trek, and they're both the captain

in the Enterprise, et cetera, et cetera. And

there are a lot of similarities that you can

compare. They're very different as far as personalities

go. I mean, I know you said that they're both

a little cocky, a little arrogant, et cetera.

But I still think from a personality standpoint

that they're vastly different. From a maturity

standpoint, from an intelligence standpoint,

their characters are very much different. You

know, obviously Kirk, when he's taking over,

when he's taking this position, you know, he

is young, he is green, you know. He's in a completely

different position than when Jean -Luc Picard's

character is introduced to us in The Next Generation

as obviously a more of a seasoned veteran type

character. So they do have a lot of differences

as well. Steve, what do you think of when you

think of these two? Well, I do love Kirk and

he... That was my original captain that I remember

as a kid growing up in addition to Picard. I

still have to give it to Picard only for the

fact that, one, he's had to grow as a captain.

For one, he had his heart stabbed out by the

Nausicaans, which is what caused him to become

the captain that he is, whereas Kirk was more

cocky, whereas Picard was cocky until that point.

everything was more calculated and diplomatic

and thought through. Whereas Kirk's like, let's

gamble and see, you know, and hope that the dice

roll in his favor more or less. And I think that

that's why, I mean, both of them have commanded

more than one Federation ship. I mean, Kirk's

had... the original Enterprise, the reconstructed

Enterprise, the USS A, and then you have Picard

that's had the Stargazer, the Enterprise D, and

the Enterprise E. They've each had three ships

that they've been captain of, but I think that

the reason that Picard stands out more so is

because he's, for the very same reasons Dodd

said, he's just overall a better captain. All

right, so your vote is for Picard, Steve. Correct.

And Dodd, you're the same? Oh, absolutely. Matt?

Yeah, I'm gonna give it to Picard, but I think

Kirk could have beaten just about anybody else.

Hey, he's going against - Yeah, anybody else.

I will agree. I could make a pretty passionate

argument for Janeway and Cisco. And I'd ignore

you. Except Archer. Fuck Archer. Yup, exactly.

Go back to quantum leap asshole, anyway. So we

have a clean sweep in this category. Four votes

for Picard. All hate mail can be directed to.

Exactly. I know there's a ton of Kirk fans out

there, and there's a ton of people that like

him better than Picard. I just don't. If I'm

joining a crew and I get to pick who's going

to be my captain, I'm taking Picard every time.

I feel more secure and more safe about my life

and not reckless. Yeah. And about what we're

going to accomplish and the things, you know,

not just in a battle sense, but on a, uh, just

like from a humanitarian type thing and all that.

So, you know, the, I guess it goes back to what

their voyage is all about. I think Picard can

handle that better. Um, I know going through

here that some people are going to question which

people I paired up with, which people, et cetera,

et cetera. And there's probably. 12 different

ways you could do this. But it is the way it

is, so you can direct your hate at the comparisons

and who I'm pitting against each other directly

to me, and that's all my fault. Send it to feedback

at geekcastradio .com. Just say Optimist Solo

is retarded. Hashtag. Yeah. But her next category,

I decided to somewhat go with the science officers,

quote unquote. And I know also some people had

different roles throughout the run of their show,

which we didn't mention. But I guess I guess

we can get that out of the way. Most people that

are watching this, I'm assuming no. But Star

Trek, the original series obviously was a three

season show, 79 episodes from 1966 to 1969. Whereas

The Next Generation was a seven season show,

178 episodes from 1987 to. in 1994. And the science

officers we're comparing here in this third category

would be SPOC and data. I think they're a good

comparison for multiple different reasons. I

know when we get through all the characters,

we'll talk about some of the other ways we could

have matched them up. But I like SPOC and data

going against each other. And I'm actually starting

this category off with no idea how I'm voting

because I keep going back and forth on these

two for different reasons. So it might depend

on what you all say. Birdman, how do you break

these two guys down? How do you compare these

two? And how do you decide who's better? Well,

it depends on when you're comparing these characters.

Like, do you do data? pre -emotion chip or post

-emotion chip? Because that's an important distinction

to look at, too. Also, are you factoring in anything

expanded universe, such as video games, comic

books, and, well, books? And for Spock, you have

to kind of apply the same kind of rules there

as well. I mean, this is a harder category than

you might think, even for me. I mean, I'm probably

gonna go data, but at the same time, Spock does

have that half human intuition, whereas he wouldn't,

I wouldn't use the word reckless, but he takes

calculated risks with that little bit of a human

hunch, whereas data, it breaks down by data.

There literally is no... Well, let's take a shot

and see what happens. He's like, OK, if I factor

this, that and the other thing, I calculate X

amount probability of success for a Spock. It's

a gut thing and logic. It's a logical gut response

that makes any kind of sense. Matt, how would

you break this one down or how would you start

to tackle it? Yeah, I'm just as on the fence

as you are. I'm thinking like who makes a better

like. Co -star or you know person to bounce off

of because I think of like Kirk and Spock's interaction

like you green -blooded heartless bastard and

things like that And I think like data gets more

like it's like a data about this like oh, he's

just a robot And I think that like Spock is more

interesting to have in a group than data is I

was just about to say something similar I was

gonna say what if we look at it as who was more

important to their individual series because

to me I initially am thinking that Data has so

much more going for him. But if you look at who

is more important to their individual series,

that to me seems like it's Spock because does

the classic series survive and is it as good

if you take Spock out of it? Whereas Data, as

good as he is, maybe has a stronger supporting

cast that you could take Data out and that show

still survives easier? Yeah, because part of

the appeal and the power of the original series

is that chemistry between Nimoy and Shatner,

not just on screen. And DeForest Kelly. Yeah,

and DeForest Kelly. It's that trio or even that

duo working together. And as much as I love Data,

he's not second in command. He's third at best.

And even then, Picard will always default to

Riker. He's like, well, what do you think number

one not well, mr. Data? What's your opinion,

but he doesn't ask him? You know what? I mean,

he's gonna rely on Ryker more so than data So

I guess you can look at it one or two ways who

is more important to their series or who makes

the better science officer? Because data makes

the better science officer Oh without a doubt

without a doubt Spock is probably more important

to a series Steve, how do you break this one

down? I'm still not sure where I go Well, I definitely

see where Spock is more important to his series.

However, data has come in just as much of handy

just because of the technological aspect throughout

the series, whether it be hacking into systems

or his positronic net. For instance, Think First

Contact, would Picard have gotten out of that

by himself? Probably not. He needed data. I mean...

There's a lot of I mean and I'm not saying that

Spock hasn't helped Kurt get out of life and

death situations because he has but I think the

key thing would between the two of them is one's

actually alive and one's not and The interactions

that they have between everybody not saying that

data is treated any less by his You know the

the senior crew because it's not but at least

in one season he was but But I think that Spock

overall has had the most lasting effect on the

entire franchise. Yeah, I mean, I guess if you

were going to take just your generic people off

the street and say Star Trek and ask them to

come up with, you know, think of a name or think

of a character from Star Trek, people would probably

come up with Spock before they came up with Data.

Well, I mean, I think that mostly the original

crew, despite people not really associating with

them as much, think that those are the most iconic

still just because I mean you say me up Scotty

or you know Kirk to Enterprise or you know You

know and then Spock is Vulcan, you know salute

so I mean it I definitely see that I mean especially

you look at Spock and this kind of coincides

with the original series and kind of doesn't

and kind of coincides with the next generation,

but He's been in The Next Generation, as has

Kirk, as has Scotty, as has McCoy, and he's also

in The Rebooted Universe and in that original

series. I mean Spock's just he's had the longest

reach out of any of the original crew And I guess

although you I was making the argument that Spock

is more important to his individual series I'm

saying that from like a casting standpoint data

may be more important to his series from a writing

in a story standpoint as far as the different

types of Moral questions they were able to bring

up with data as a character on that show well

I definitely see that too just because he's he

kind of It was the the dilemma of what do you

consider life? Yeah, and the human the human

side of things although I mean not saying there

wasn't similar storylines for Spock, but they

definitely had they definitely Data allowed them

to go into areas that they wouldn't have been

able to do without that character How close are

you to making a decision Birdman? Well, on one

hand, Spock is awesome. On the other hand, Data

did get the bang -tash -a -yar. That's true.

But Spock got Savick and got whoever the chick

was in the original series. In that case, Spock!

He's on the power of sex appeal! Matt, what do

you think? What's making the ultimate decision

for you here against these two guys? Honestly,

one point that hasn't been brought up is that

I think on more occasions Data was a threat to

the Enterprise than Spock ever was. There were

a number of times Data once took over the whole

D by himself just to go see his dad one more

time and other situations like that. You can

argue the same point with Spock though because

he took over the original Enterprise under Kirk's

command to get Captain Pike adhering to send

him back to Talos IV. But you could reason with

Spock, whereas Data, if... Once he has a program,

he's not going to be able to divert from it.

No, but Spock could have diverted from his whole

setup, too, but he did it anyway. True. And he's

done similar things for, you know, like his father

and for, you know, other other reasonings that

he's... kind of broken the code of Starfleet

to do what he thought needed to be done. And

Data has done the same and also in the same regard.

Both of them have been taken over and manipulated

in their minds before by other forces within

the Star Trek universe. So similarities can be

tossed around. So man, I guess what is it? Is

it the iconic more important to the series or

is it who makes the better science officer? Which

way do you go? I'm just gonna go with Spock just

based on my human intuition. All right, that's

fair enough Steve Spock And Matt Burman your

official vote with Spock also, yeah, I'm sorry

data. I know well I since the category has already

decided I am going to just throw a vote out for

data just because I don't feel like this should

be a clean sweep of a category because these

two guys are too similar there's too many things

going for each other and I'm gonna go with who

do I want to be my science officer and in that

case I'm gonna go with data but obviously the

category will still go to Mr. Spock and I could

also raise another point for data he has a cat

that's true and I like cats so Birdman, you like

cats, so we can share that. All right. Moving

on to our fourth category, another pairing of

characters here. And in this time, we are going

with the chief engineer. Interested to see what

you guys have to say about this. Scotty versus

Mr. Geordi LaForge. Matt, start this one off.

These two are obviously very iconic individuals.

LeVar Burton, all the beam me up Scotty stuff.

Where do you start to try to break this one down?

I don't know, like a part of me wants to just

be like, well, who seems like they're better

at their job? And I feel like in most situations,

it feels like it's the TNG guy. But at the same

time, I feel like Scotty did a lot more thinking

on the fly, like Jordy knew things by the books

and he did a lot of interesting things like the

time he load up that hollow program with the

designer and, you know, bounced off of her to

get, you know, new things. But I feel like Scotty

did a lot more. He seems like the more down and

dirty handyman type of engineer. Well, this is

kind of how I see it. Scotty is more, not only

is he down and dirty, but he also, back in the

23rd century, there were no other alternatives

and you were out in deep space by yourself. He

had to come up with things on the fly or kind

of... rig things up to work to how they should

be or close to how they should be, even as far

as enhancing the Enterprise compared to what

Starfleet specs were. Whereas Geordi kind of

had to just maintain. He had to make modifications

depending on the mission, but Scotty had to do

it because they were out in the middle of nowhere

and they didn't have a choice. I mean, he was

the ultimate Starfleet mechanic. Or could you

flip it around and say, that Jordy was possibly

shouldering a bigger responsibility because he's

dealing with such a more massive system. Jordy

had more support and had data. True. Jordy had

help. Yeah, exactly. He had an entire staff in

engineering. Scotty had the three people. Scotty's

like, dammit laddie, show up to work for once.

Yeah. I mean, think about How often do you think

Scotty left engineering? I bet you he had a bunk

just off of the warp core. Whereas LaForge, he

had time to go be Sherlock Holmes and everything.

He had time to hang out in 10 forts. Scotty ain't

got time for that. He's got a ship to run. He'll

take a scotch in engineering, please. Exactly.

OK, so if you have your own version of the enterprise,

who do you want to be your chief engineer, Dad?

Scotty, because A, he thinks on the fly. Two,

he doesn't need help, pretty much, because he

can figure it out for himself. He's resourceful.

And if he can't find a part, he can probably

build it or procure it somehow. Whereas, Geordie,

as much as I love Mr. Reading Rainbow, he's...

Too much of a disadvantage. He's a 24th century

wimp What about the we haven't brought it up

yet? Does does the visor add any points to LaForge's

character? Makes it makes them look cool. He's

used it though to do stuff that Scotty wouldn't

be able to do true true While that may be true.

It's also been a hindrance because I mean look

the Klingons got a hold of a code To the Enterprise

by piping into it and crash the ship Jordy shows

the evil of Google Glass. He does. Steve, are

you picking Scotty as your engineer? We're assembling

a dream team crew here. I would definitely take

Scotty because, I mean, think about it this way.

If you're stuck with no life support and you

have the option of being locked in a transporter

for 75 years with the option to possibly live,

I think I'd take that option. And Scotty, I think,

knows how to do that. obviously because that's

what made him survive. What about you, Matt?

Yeah, got to give it to Scotty. All right. This

one I will allow to be a clean sweep because

as much as I love Jordy LaForge, he is one of

my favorite characters in the whole franchise.

But if it comes down to actually who do I want

to and that's how I broke it down, I guess, to

the science engineer who I wanted as my science

engineer would be data who I want as my engineers,

the guy that can make something out of nothing

that doesn't matter how much book learning you

do. He's going to know which thing to hit, which

thing to put together. So I got to go with Scotty

on this one as well. So a clean sweep for the

original series in this category. And we will

move on to. I know some people were these positions

and some people weren't and as the series went

on people changed positions But we're kind of

looking at the navigators slash security officers

of the two crews So we're looking at Chekhov

and Sulu for the original series We're looking

at wharf and Tashiar for the next generation.

Is it a disadvantage that Tashiar dies? I don't

know but Ferdinand, how do you start looking

at these four? She was killed by black goo. She

was killed by tar. It depends on when you look

at these guys. And the main reason I bring that

up is the original series. It was a pretty serious

time of, I wouldn't say war in the Federation,

but there were constant skirmishes with like

Klingons and Romulans, Tholians, you know, basically

all sorts of really bad shit. And whereas the

Enterprise era, the Enterprise primarily was

an exploration and science ship, like it was

pretty much a peace vessel. However, that being

said, war Klingon race, first Klingon in Starfleet

Academy, could you argue Star - starship combat

experience be kind of light all things considered

and then you look at checkoffs experiences young

and inexperienced you could probably get up pretty

good parallel might be a dream uh... check off

and war solu uh... as a security officer and

uh... sorry navigator sorry uh... once again

he's got that uh... that think on the fly thing

and uh... I do appreciate that. I really do.

Then again, Tashiar. It's Tashiar. And I know

a lot of people like Tashi are I couldn't stand

her as a character She had to get bring her back.

I couldn't stand her as a kid I can't stand her

when I rewatch episodes of that show. I don't

know what it is So for me, it's it's literally

can is wharf good enough to beat out Chakov and

Sulu You just hate Denise Crosby. Yeah, I guess

I mean I liked her better as a Romulan I guess

Pseudo Romulan, whatever you want to call it.

Are you being her daughter? But man wharf as

a security officer is hard to beat As far as

like if you're looking at it from a navigator

standpoint, obviously you got to go check up

in Sulu But man wharf is wharf is just so darn

cool. Matt. How do you do this one? I don't know.

I feel like it's it's a Unfairly stacked because

I like and I think a navigators. I think Sulu

versus Wesley Yeah, you could throw him in there

and take Tashi are out I guess if you want to

know don't do it. It won't be fair Take Wesley

out of everything. Oh, come on He likes the Wesley

crushers I Got nothing against Will Wheaton like

I think he's a fine actor kind of a douchebag

in person, but a fine actor I think the problem

with that one was all script and they wanted

to force him in but that's neither here nor there

in this category like I don't know I really I

really like Tasha Yar and Worf, but I also really

like Sulu. You know, can you compare Worf's bat

left skills versus Sulu's fencing skills? I mean,

they both pulled out weapons on their ships in

various times. They're interesting guys. It's

a hard one. Sulu looks a lot cooler and goofier

when he's got his fencing sword out, though.

Yeah, man. Shirtless fencing down the halls.

That's what I want. My ship. fucking a Steve,

what do you think I? While I do like the original

series cast See, I'm kind of torn because there's

one I like on either side More than more than

the other Is that suit and wharf? Or check off

and wharf. It's it's check off I Don't like Tashi

are at all. I never have I was glad when they

Decided to kill her off and put wharf I Think

it was like I mean it was the line the same times

that they got rid of Dr. Crusher and then they

brought in Pulaski and then they were like, oh

we screwed up You know, so I Think that it it

caused wharf to become a better character that

again he get to touch two series instead of just

one So what's that Possibly a third isn't there

isn't he supposed to be trying to head up his

own new? He's been trying that for about four

years now. Yeah, I think it's getting some headway

though So they say That's the same, you know

checkoff is doing renegades and he's an admiral

on that so yeah, there is that option too, um

But no, I mean, I think that it makes For a better

case for at least wharf, I think because he's

kind of the jack of all trades. He does both

of their jobs in one. He does, you know, kind

of the navigation tactical and communications

all in one spot. Plus, he was their security

officer. If it was wharf and O 'Brien, would

it be better? Probably, but O 'Brien got shipped

over after like third season. He didn't have

a name in the first season. He was just transporter

chief. that's it yeah yeah and well and he also

did a little bit here and there and you know

navigation stuff but they they've booted his

ass pretty quick plus as always the o 'brien

must suffer so that means if he's on your ship

bad shit's gonna happen pretty much so as soon

as they get rid of him then because warf would

say would you like me to fire about every you

know time that he was at tactical and picard

is like no So how are we gonna vote in this one?

I'm still, I don't know. If it's just which single

person out of those four is the best, then it's

Worf for me. But if I have to pick a team of

Worf and Tasha, or Chekov and Sulu, that becomes

a lot harder. Matt, how are you gonna vote in

this one? Keep making me go first, I'm mean.

No, it's fine. I don't know, I think I like Tasha

more than anyone else here, huh? I feel like

I like the strong female lead on the bridge,

always there. I think she was great from a writing

standpoint and I liked her as a character. Though

I think that Worf became a better character once

she died. I wish there was a better option. Like

maybe getting her in trouble and putting her

in a different place or something, I don't know.

You know, I don't know like George Takei is one

of my favorite people in the world. So it's hard

to vote against him But I think I'm gonna have

to go with TNG on this. All right Birdman. How

do you think? I'm going classic series here All

right, Steve. It's one -to -one so far son of

a bitch Because I like the one team more but

I like the one character more I'm going to have

to go with Wharf here. Alright. That makes it

hard for me now. Man. I'm in a similar situation.

Do you go with the team or do you go with the

one person? I mean, I understand what you're

saying about Tashiara and she is good from a

writing standpoint. Something just rubbed me

wrong about her. I don't know if it was the actress

or the appearance or what it was. Can't put my

finger on it. Never have been able to. Man. Who

do I want as my navigators and security officers?

I like the dynamic, I think. Even though I don't

like Tashiar, I like the dynamic of the two.

Ah, man. And I like Worf as my security officer,

so I'm going to go with the next generation on

that one. All right. Let's get on to the next

category, which would be the medical staff. So

for the original series, we have Mr. McCoy, Dr.

McCoy, and Nurse Chapel, who appeared sporadically.

And then we have the... alternating doctors of

the next generation, Beverly Crusher and Catherine

Pulaski. I guess we should start. I want to start

with Crusher and Pulaski. Which one did you prefer

just amongst those two, Birdman? You see, I actually

like Pulaski, but Beverly Crusher's hotter. It's

sad. That's actually a factor for me. But the

thing is, I feel like McCoy and Chappell were

more pioneers in their time. Whereas crusher

and Pulaski did have the huge advantage of having

Starfleet medical behind them and all the advanced

tech whereas McCoy and Chapel had to make it

up as they went along so I'm with you at times.

I like Pulaski better, too I kind of went back

and forth on which one of those but as far as

a category I'll get mine out of the way because

I think this is a slam dunk. I think With or

without nurse Chapel McCoy wins this one. Yeah.

Yep But I think it is interesting on who likes

Crusher and who likes Pulaski better, but I will

cast my vote now and let you guys continue talking.

Matt, what do you think? I think Pulaski was

the worst thing to happen in Next Generation

since Wesley Crusher. Oh, man. But she didn't

have a bitchin' sweater. Yeah, see? That puts

her down even lower. That one episode, though,

where she grows old is so kick -ass. Yeah, dude,

I wish she would die. I bet she didn't die. She

looks so freaky old. I'm sorry, Matt. She was

the one that ended up fixing wharf right when

he broke his legs or spine or whatever Yeah It's

like that's the one thing she's got to her credit,

but even then she didn't think it was gonna work

or whatever Yeah, and she she had she had no

hope in wharf and anything. I don't know Hated

Pulaski crusher was great But I you know I have

mixed feelings about the whole tension between

her and Picard like the will they get married

won't they get married? They wear pants will

they not Like I don't know I think I think it

is like unquestionably has got to go with bones

man Is that unanimous yeah, I? Want me the one

thing that Pulaski made her really hateable is

she hated data She really did. She had a mission

to destroy data. She's like, I hate you, you

stupid android. She was kind of a racist in a

weird way. She was. I think I liked her because

there was no fear of just going with the whole

love angle with anybody. She was just like, F

you. He liked her because she was unlovable?

No, because she made it so that there wasn't

going to be a love story line in that episode

if it was dealing with her. Because she hated

everybody? Yeah. She's like, you suck. But no,

I'd have to go with McCoy because he was the

medical badass coming up with solutions to problems

that nobody had ever heard of before. Right.

Even in the comics he continues to do so because

they had one where they had Bashir crusher Pulaski

and the EMH and they couldn't figure out some

disease that came about from the original series

time and Starfleet medical was wiped of the resources

of it and Bones happened to have it on his medical

tricorder that he stole from Starfleet that he

never turned back in when he quit All right,

so it's unanimous for the original series as

far as the medical staff Which leads us to our

last grouping of the actual crews of these two

ships and that is the communications? members

which would be lieutenant your hurrah and Deanna

Troy Birdman The space cheerleader or captain

we have an incoming message from Starfleet Yeah,

well hold on we can't we can't The other one

the other one was was sleeping with two of her

comets Hold on. Hold on. We can't use the word

Useful and not talk about how useful Deanna Troy

was every time Picard needed to be like Mute

the screen for a second. What is that guy thinking?

Well, she can't read their thoughts she can read

their emotions, right? player can do that no

but she was very good at allowing the obvious

to be stated there's a lot of hate for Deanna

Troy here I don't like her as a character but

come on she was very useful yeah eye candy on

the bridge see I don't see her as eye candy at

all Matt do you hate her too no she was actually

one of my favorite characters in that whole series

I don't even feel like talking right now you're

a terrible person what the hate for Deanna Troy

I don't get it I mean when you're when you're

a beta Z that is that is a one -up Is to have

one of them on your crew? Yeah, her mom was annoying.

It's all get out. Although good, but she was

also the nurse chapel, right? I understand and

obviously, you know big -time connections to

the whole thing Also the computer right and the

computer so best roll yet Don't know damn. He's

annoying as his storylines at times were with

Riker and some other things like she's very useful

to have on your crew compared to your who just

basically was The definition of communications

person only Although I guess in the reboot, maybe

you could make an argument for the new character,

but this is just the classic series So we can't

go there Matt defend Deanna Troy. I'm doing a

bad job of it Yeah, I don't know. Well, I personally,

the opposite of the crusher Picard love interest,

I liked Riker Deanna. See, that I did like. That'll

give you. I think that was well executed and

it was, you know, and whenever there was a step

forward or a step backward, I felt like it was

actually, you know, a real story, not just like,

well, that's what we're doing this week. And

I don't know, I like empaths as an idea. I think

that's a fun concept. I don't think it gets enough

time in fiction, so adding it as a character

that's usually on the bridge is great. Would

you rather have a communications person that's

strictly going to give you communication or a

communication that also can read those feelings,

et cetera? Like it's the same person, but then

she has an advantage to me. This is no contest.

Well, I mean if you're going strictly from a

useful point of view of what was shown on screen

between the two series Then I think it's no contest,

but that's not what we're doing here necessarily

I Mean there was there's more to it and you know

Troy had the the largest wardrobe of anyone on

the D Like she had two different like I don't

know yoga outfits She had that awesome dress

the the blue one then she had her dress dressy

uniform that wasn't the dress uniform. Space

cheerleader. So you guys are going for the bland

Lieutenant Yara? She may be bland, but she's

got tech skills. What can you do, Deanna? You

don't even have a console in front of you. She

doesn't need one. Alright, so are we gonna have

a split category on this? Steve, are you voting

for the original series on this? As useful...

I mean, they both have their different uses,

but... I'm gonna have to vote TNG on this one,

I think. Oh. Alright. Dot, are you going with

the original series? That's right! That's right.

Alright, you're the only one. I like Ohura! I'm

progressive! I like Ohura, too. I just like Deanna

more. That's where I don't necessarily like either

one, but if I had to pick one on my crew, it's

gonna be Troy She's more helpful to me. I Put

Dax Yeah, yeah, you know what Dax should be in

this cuz arguably she she at least has cool tech

skills and as generations of experience true

We couldn't put everybody. We had a lot of other

people we could have put in. Not room for everybody.

Including this other one who I have down as category

eight. Who's the better number one bridge officer?

William Riker? Or the one that didn't exist for

the original series? Now I know a lot of people

would say this is where we could have had Spock

versus Riker as the second -in -command type

thing, but really there's no comparison for Riker

in the original series. If anything, Kirk is

a closer comparison to Riker. then he is to Picard.

In my opinion, as far as a personality, age,

all the different traits that go into it, Kirk

and Riker are more similar, and Picard's almost

like the dad. Picard's almost of a league of

his own, whereas Riker is... Well, for one, his

idol was Captain Kirk, which is shown on numerous

occasions, plus... He's got that same kind of

grittiness and kind of gamble and kind of, you

know, the way that he carries himself is almost

like Kirk, but it's more refined. And we couldn't

compare him to Kirk because that was already

going to be Picard. And I didn't want to compare

him to Spock because we already had data. So

I really didn't have anybody to compare Ryker

to, but I at least wanted to acknowledge that

he existed. Birdman, is there anybody that should

have put him against? You could argue. Chakotay

from Voyager? That would not fit this debate.

The original series, though, there's really nobody.

Yeah, I'm trying to think here from the original

series. Well, what if we looked at the movies?

Is there anybody even in there? I don't really

remember anybody that could compare to that.

Kirstie Alley. Nobody. I mean, Decker. Kirstie

Alley, there we go. So that would have been an

unfair advantage and Next Generation would have

got a slam dunk on this one. But she was in Cheers.

Does his existence give... I mean, this isn't

a category, so to speak, but does his existence

in The Next Generation give a point towards that

series in general as a character type that we

didn't have in the original series? Would almost

argue so even though I don't want to just for

the fact that They had the same amount of cast

You know the seven and then if you count Wesley,

it's eight, but I'd try not to But They it seems

like the next generation crew made more use of

their cast of their seven Whereas the original

series did not Thanks an amount of episodes thing

though cuz yeah, I mean I I get that too But

I think that also a lot of it Evolved when Roddenberry

was no longer involved with the series when Berman

kind of takes the helms. Yeah Okay, so that's

just for fun. I just wanted to at least acknowledge

that right here exists So we don't seem silly

for not having him involved in this debate somehow

even though we're not comparing him against anybody

Moving away from the actual cruise a little bit

obviously both series deal with a variety of

alien species, enemies, etc. etc. There was a

couple pretty significant ones though that exist

in both that I wanted to compare here. So we're

comparing the old versions, the original series

versions of these guys, to the next generation

versions and we're talking about Klingons and

Romulans because they are probably the two most

prominent ones that exist in both. Do we like

the old Klingons and the old Romulans better

or the newer Klingons and Romulans going when

it comes to these two series. Matt, how do you

how do you start comparing these two or is or

does Klingons go one way and Romulans go the

other way? Well, you got a good point. I don't

know. I like I feel like they were fleshed out

a lot more in Next Generation. That might be

because there's more time and then, you know,

all that. It definitely looks cooler in the Next

Generation. That's a budget thing, though. That's

hard to compare. Um, but you know at the same

time the Klingons in the original series had

that storyline of they look so much like humans

they can blend in and Like I can't think of a

parallel to the next generation and I like that

story. I'm not dressed up like Klingons Yeah,

yeah, I mean the humans could always just graft

things to their faces and do things like that

But they were like hey wharf dress up like a

Klingon What? Continue I don't know I got nothing

Warf, looking like a man. Birdman, how do we

start trying to compare these two? I felt the

Romulans were more effective in the new series.

They're more of a subtle threat. Whereas in the

original series, in my opinion, they were a whole

lot of who gives a fuck. Whereas the Klingons

in the old series, they were more of a military

threat. And they are still very much a military

threat in the next generation. But you can negotiate

with these ones. There are ones who want to talk.

For me, I might go to what he was saying, and

obviously there's more episodes, so it's easier

probably to flesh out these races in the next

generation. But to me, the Romulans, if we're

comparing the two, are a closer comparison between

the original series and the next generation.

Like, I can't separate them as much. Whereas

the Klingons... the storylines that they did

with the Klingons in The Next Generation, and

maybe it's an unfair advantage since you have

a Klingon as part of your crew and all the different

things you can do involving Worf, but those are

some of my favorite episodes of The Next Generation

are the ones including the different Klingon

relationships and power struggles, etc. So I

can't necessarily say a clear cut winner in Romulans,

but for me, I like The Next Generation Klingons

way better than the original series. Steve, what

do you think? I like I like him for different

reasons. I like the Romulus just I like their

style and how they look better in the original

series Better although they are more more militant

in the future Thinking that they're better than

everybody else. Where's the Klingon still do

but they hold uphold their honor and Whereas

in the original it doesn't seem like they had

one had an honor system. It was more of just

you f'd with me I'll come after you. But I have

to argue also that the Klingons look cooler in

the 24th century and there's a lot more going

for them. Does anybody want to make an argument

before we try to get votes for either side? Well,

speaking on the honor code thing, like, you would

hear half of the Klingons of Next Generation

talk about honor, and then the other half just

ignore it entirely. Like, that was a constant

thing of, uh, that guy's got no honor. It's like,

yeah, and he's winning right now. Right. Like,

that happened a lot. I don't know my vote only

like I said not for the Romulan standpoint because

I think it's almost a washer It's too close to

call but for Klingons it swayed me to vote for

next generation in this category overall Birdman,

what do you think? Honestly, I'm gonna have to

go with the new the new kind of generations Simply

more or less because of the Romulans Okay, because

like I said, there are more subtle threat. They've

infiltrated the Federation deep they could literally

be anywhere at any time. It wasn't even more

of a subtle threat, but it was a more subtle

threat, but also a more serious threat. Yeah,

I mean, their ships are massive, their spy network

is unparalleled. I mean, the Romulans, honestly,

they're pretty badass, whereas in the original

series, ooh, cloaking device. I don't know, although,

like I said, Klingons in the original series,

they were a pretty big threat to the Federation.

Now, not so much. But yeah, I'm going to give

my vote right now. I'm saying no. All right.

Matt, what do you think? Go ahead. Didn't the

classic Romulans used to have like a giant bird

painted on this hull of their ship? Yeah. You

got to give them points for that shit, right?

Is it enough points for you to cast your vote

for the original series? Giant bird and maybe

give them a space mullet and they could like

mud in the space. I'd be down I'm gonna give

it the next generation for all the things Birdman

said. All right, Steve I'm gonna have to go next

generation just because the the sheer Amount

of ships the coolness to them the the Klingons.

I mean Overall, it's it's just a better pick.

All right, so a clean sweep for the next generation

Which brings us to our halfway point and category

number 10 here Looking away from people for a

minute We've compared the ships, but let's get

right down to it for the most part most the action

took place on the bridge Which show had the cooler

bridge? I know there's different versions of

them and you can break them down However, you'd

like to but what show has a better bridge Steve?

Now does it have to be the original series bridge

or can it be one of the original series movies

bridges either well Either I say technically

we're going to be the series against the series.

OK, maybe we should stick with that. OK, because

it's it's even that it's still a hard choice

between choosing film to film. Look at it this

way. Which bridge would you rather spend sitting

for eight hours on? Which is more comfortable

you can't really sit on the next generation one

unless you're one of the senior most crew members

Well, actually that's not entirely true those

cabinets underneath all the terminals and the

sides and the back they actually pull out his

seats And it's a hell of a lot brighter so you

wouldn't need glasses for eyestrain So I think

I'm gonna have to go to next generation just

because the the bridge just looks more comforting

more relaxed and there's more than one way out.

Yeah. It also just looks more intimidating. If

you get on the view screen and you're about to

have some type of interaction with one, if the

view screen comes up and it's the original series

bridge, you're like, what is this hodgepodge?

I'm not afraid of this. If the next generation

one comes up, you're like, dang, son, these guys

are serious. Like, I'm not messing with these

guys. I screwed. Yeah. So I agree with you guys.

I'd be going with the next generation bridge

as the one I would prefer to be a part of. What

about you, Burban? Yeah, definitely. Because

once again, if you look at the bridge from the

original series, there's one way on that bridge

and one way off. So I don't know how you'd even

get to the bathroom. Which, yeah, where's the

bathroom on this thing? Well, it's on deck 17.

Also, this one gave you quick access to... The

captain's ready room? The captain's ready room.

Well, on the other side, it is the bathroom.

Okay. It seems to be on the next generation bridge,

you have got a lot more... custom ability plus

you can obviously you can run the entire ship

from the bridge you can run engineering from

there you it just seems like there's more more

control options on the next generation plus those

chairs look really comfortable you can adjust

everything on the original bridge those don't

look like adjustable chairs and more stuff happened

on the next generation bridge yeah you know as

like other characters outside of the crew showing

up yeah the board Exactly. All sorts of crazy

crap happened on that bridge. Plus, you've got

that wonderful skylight looking in the space.

Right. Crack it with a hammer. Yeah. They'll

die. All right. So clean sweep on category 10,

sticking with objects and things like that. Category

11, we're going to move into just weapons in

general. Now, you can look at this as phasers.

You can look at this as the actual enterprise

weapons. You can look at this as the villains

weapons that they came across. Just overall,

if you're going to watch the entire series, of

both shows. Which one features cooler weapons?

I like the phaser rifle from the new series,

but the original one looks so sci -fi as to be

really stupidly badass because it looks like

the ultimate giant phaser ray gun. Right. But

the weapons of that era were, because they were

more primitive in some ways, they were more disruptive.

I mean, Think about the Klingon Blaster from

Star Trek 3 when it just disintegrated people.

Yeah. I wouldn't want to be shot by that. Fuck

disruptors. Whereas in the next generation, phaser

and disruptor hits are more survivable. They're

almost a little bit more civilized. Well, that's

because the 90s hit and they had a different

government. Set the phasers just done. In the

60s, you could kill people. Now, are we also

including starship weapons in here as well? In

that case, the next generation quantum torpedoes,

Nuff said. If we're also going to talk about

weapons, we can also talk about armor, a blade

of armor, which Janeway brought back from the

future. But if we're talking strictly next generation,

because that would be technically in that timeline,

if you really want to stretch it out, because

she was back in Nemesis. So the technology is

there. um trying to think of other big ass weapons

uh well you have the i mean think about it this

way you have the tractor beams uh that are more

advanced you have the deflector dish um you have

uh you know the tacan pulses you have the the

borg cubes that are nanite weapons the nanites

yep um you have the ability to adapt and prevent

So, I mean, I think it's going to be pretty obvious

since the next generation is so much further

in the future that the technology, et cetera,

is going to be there to allow for better technologically

sound weaponry, et cetera. But what if you're

going about just how each series used weaponry,

weapons? You could argue the original series

was more brutal because of things like the Doomsday

Machine. You never saw a planet killer on a scale

outside of a bore cube in the next generation

at least well, maybe that tin man thing if it

turned evil, but Yeah, because the next or the

original series had a lot more like I said Brutal

weaponry when you really think about it Plus

there are a lot of blades used in the original

series if I remember I remember a lot of stabbing

So I Don't know that it it's hard I would not

want to get shanked in the 23rd century, but

I sure as hell don't want to get shot in the

24th so Um wasn't against it. What didn't Kirk

make a like a piece meal blunderbuss when he

was fighting like a Garner want something? We

got to count that weapon because that was awesome.

That's like Explosive crystals and John jammed

him down a bamboo shoot and shot a dude. Yep

the car never did that I Don't know I think the

classic standard -issue phaser Like, I like that

the original series, it looked like a gun. Whereas

the other one, it looked like, I don't know,

could have been a scanning device. It could have

been anything. And I guess that that's, you know,

probably a possible thing in the future, that

not all guns are gonna look like guns. But like,

I don't know. I like the pistol aspect of the

old one. So is your vote for the original series,

Matt? I don't know. I don't have a vote. Steve,

what do you think? How are we going in this?

Which series uses the weapons better? Which series

had better weapons? How do you want to go with

that? Well, I do like the styles of some of the

original series stuff. I think I'm going to have

to go TNG on this one just because of the technological

advancements. I mean, although I don't like their

hand phasers in the 24th century compared to

the 23rd century, I do agree on the same thing

as the rifles with Dodd there. Original series

ones look like dogs not compared to the TNG ones

But I I just think overall it's a hands -down

TNG I mean you have the original series not only

were they brutal with their weapons, but They

they use their phasers from the enterprise to

light a friggin mountain. I mean torch it but

Birdman agree or disagree I agree Matt back to

you. Yeah, I'll give it the TNG Although, the

homemade blunderbuss is a major point. Alright,

that makes it three clean sweeps in a row for

the next generation. Let's see what happens as

we get back into some people. We've talked about

the crews and we talked about some of the races.

We didn't get into specific villains. So, which

series had the best villains? We had people like

Gorn, General Chang. Khan, Commander Kruse, Harry

Mudd in the original series, and a bunch more

that I'm sure all you guys will want to mention

as we discuss this. Some of the main ones you

might think of for the next generation. Arbus,

that's the character that killed Tasha Yar. You

have the Borg Queen. You have Q. He may be enough

to win this category alone. The Tura sisters,

as far as Klingons go. Lor, Data's brother. Which

series did you like the villains in better, Birdman?

TNG I felt they were more memorable. I mean out

of the original series. I can name General Chang

the Gorn con mud and Tremaine you asked me Who

I can name out of TNG I can rattle off like ten

And the other thing is we are somewhat cheating

here because the villains were coming up with

for the original series are technically from

the movies mostly Yeah, well the only one that's

not is is the Gorn con and Harry mud and the

Gorm is only one dude I know, it was one episode.

You got killed by a homemade blunderbuss! Keep

going with your thoughts, so you can name more

for the next generation. Does that make a surefire

thing for them? I think it does, plus the fact

that the villains outside, like, I think the

villains in TNG are more, they seem more like

a galactic threat. The Klingons are a regional

thing. You look at the Borg, something like that

could consume the Milky Way cons - Conceivably

like they eat everything the Borg could come

at you out of nowhere and Seemingly had no limits

to their reach and Q really didn't seem to have

a lot of limits to his reach either Not until

Voyager anyway Yeah, but that was so great about

Q is that like he was clearly the first villain

they ever fought But ultimately he was rooting

for humanity like if it wasn't for Q There was

no way the Federation was ever gonna be prepared

for the Borg Like him him throwing the enterprise

at the Borg way before they would have ever encountered

him is what allowed them to start their research

and everything That allowed them to fight. Yeah

Like and just think of like if you were to take

these and switch them right like Khan versus

Versus like Picard like he got duped by Kirk.

So how easily would he get duped by Picard? But

then like you versus Kirk. I Think that I made

for an interesting story. Well, they would have

been Battling each other with with you know sarcastic

remarks. He would have just been having fun with

him. Yeah, and Kirk would too But I don't think

Kirk would have outsmarted Q No, no, he wouldn't

outsmarted him, but he would have gambled in

the right way just to piss him off and make him

leave He would have rikered him. Yeah So Matt

is your vote for TNG? Yeah, I don't think it's

really comparable Steve, you have two votes going

TNG. Are you going to be dissenting among them?

I mean, I think ultimately the original series

only had actually two real villains in Khan and

Chang. But again, the only recurring villain

that the original series had was Khan. I mean,

you could argue with races of people, but I mean,

Harry Mudd's not really a threat and then you

have... I mean Khan's really the only threat

and he was only in one episode of the show and

one movie. I mean that's You look at TNG. I mean

the Borg are in half the series after you know

season two or three You had the Dura sisters

which are a pain in the ass You have lore which

shows up up teen times and then you have Q that

shows up eight so And he's there at the beginning

at the end of the series, right? So, I mean,

I would say overall that the next iteration wins

it hands down. Alright, fair enough. Getting

back away from the people then for a little while,

basically for the rest of the time here. And

this one, you do not have to look at specifically

just one crew versus the other crew. Looking

at the series as a whole, which series had...

The better style, the better uniforms, the better

clothing, the better outfits for either alien

races, you can talk about the actual crew uniforms,

which one you liked better. Just overall, which

series had better clothing? I know this seems

like a weird thing for us to be comparing, but

we're trying to break these down in any way possible.

Birdman, what do you think? How do we break down

the clothing? How quickly can you get it off

if you got to go to the bathroom or you want

to get some nookie? That's how I break it down.

That's not good for TNG. um honestly the original

series uniforms i like how simple they are the

problem is telling ranks it it's a little too

much effort because you have to memorize it in

my opinion well not only that but it's like here

let me see your arm yes please show me your wrist

fine sir whereas you know look at my chest or

look at my arms at least i can make it look like

i'm looking at your eyes um functionally, I think

the T and G uniforms look better from a military

standpoint. Um, because I think it's easier to

identify officers. Their pants were cooled down

by the shoes. Sorry. Yeah. Um, although the original

series, like I said, they seem more that they

would seem more comfortable like you could maybe

get a uniform. an extra size too big so you can

fit into it. Whereas the next generation, man,

you better hope you look good naked. Because

it hugs in all the wrong places. It was actually

very distracting oftentimes seeing Picard pull

his uniform down because it was starting to ride

up inside. Yeah, like that got a little tedious

at times like he goes it's writing my crack number

one So you'd rather wear the ones from the original

series, but you like the ones from the next generation

better Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, although

I do like the later TNG era when they get as

I call them the corduroy uniforms Yes, I like

those as well, but I do like the later versions

where they where they were still the they were

still colored, but they weren't as jump soupy

spandex, I guess, like the ones with the collars.

Yeah. Yeah. Those I liked the best. But corduroys

would be a second. All right. Am I the only one

who really hated when the captain had like the

the jacket with the leather shoulders and the

gray undershirt? That was Pimpacard. Oh, I hated

that outfit so much. Kurt pulled that one once,

too. But he had the green shirt. Oh, no, I like

I liked that what he had like the green open

chest shirt Like I liked that Kirk and I hated

gray shirt Picard. I don't know. I hated gray

shirt Picard as well I like the green shirt Kirk

but Kirk look like he spilled pea soup all over

himself. I know the color well if if Now if you

were talking movies, I would say the original

series and the next generation would be tied

as far as because i like the red jumpsuits and

the um the uh the next generation corduroy clothes

but um again i'd probably still go with the original

series for that um but i think even for the the

regular uniforms i'm going the original series

just because it's simpler and you know they need

to take the damn shirt off and just take the

damn shirt off they don't have to like number

one unzip me Good point. Now here's a question

for the panel here. How do I put my pants on?

Who had the most comfortable casual clothes?

Well the next generation, because they actually

had clothes. Whereas the original series had

jumpsuits. Everybody in the future has jumpsuits.

I think in the future, obviously you had a lot

more options. Although there were certain races

I thought had I like the older style Klingon

uniforms. I know, I'm weird. Because the newer

ones look like they'd be very smelly and uncomfortable

with all the body armor and spikes. Whereas the

other original ones, they look okay. Kind of

like the Romulans, you know? They look like they're

completely uncomfortable wearing the padded shoulders.

They look, you see, when I look at a Ramen from

the next generation, I feel like they'd feel

to the touch Like the inside of a pizza delivery

bag. It does look like that, like they're fuzzy

and they're just, they poke you. That is awkwardly

accurate. Like, I just want to walk up to them

like, I'm sorry, Sub Commander, whatever the

hell your name is. Can I just touch you for a

minute? I'm just really curious. The card walks

up. It is static electricity. Fascinating. Mr.

Data, come here. But yeah, so I'm going for The

Next Generation. Matt, that means you're the

only vote I need here. Which clothing would you

prefer? Which one do you like better? I like

what Steve said earlier about if you were comparing

the movies, because I feel like just the uniforms

and the jackets from Wrath of Khan were some

of the coolest costume design in any Star Trek

ever. Oh yeah, easily. It was so good. So I'm

gonna go with the original and I know we're not

doing movies But I like the original outfits

like if you were to load up my Star Trek online

account If you could ever find it like all of

my crew were in original uniforms Alright, fair

enough. If you had to pay for which is stupid

Then in uniforms we have a split two to two two

for the next generation two for the original

series our first Tie in as amongst the category

goes See how that plays in effect later on. Going

into category 14, you can compare the theme song.

You can compare the underlying themes, the different

musical scores. Which series did music better,

Birdman? TNG, Beyond the Shadow of a Dove. However,

that being said, the original theme is more iconic.

And a lot of people recognize all those Star

Trek sound effects because they're kind of part

of the pop culture. Identity is not the word,

but kind of the nerd social fabric. Like, you

know what a phaser is, you know what a photon

torpedo is. With Star Trek The Next Generation,

yeah, it's got really good sound design, but...

I agree with that point. I don't necessarily

agree that the original series has the more iconic

theme song, though. I don't know. If you were

to pull people on the street, they'd be able

to tell you, especially with that... I think

more people these days would be confused if you're

taking outside of the geek circles. Well the

funny thing is is the original series theme they

reincorporated and all they did was just add

a little bit to the end and threw it into the

new rebooted films. I don't know, I just feel

like if you took just a general person and played

both themes I think more people would identify

the next generation theme song before they could

figure out what the heck was going on with that

original one. But I think it would also depend

on if they saw the new the rebooted films because

if they saw the rebooted films, then it's the

same theme. Yeah. Next Generation is the better

theme, though. What do you say, Matt? But like,

what if they're Tenacious D fans because Tenacious

D plays the original Star Trek with its completed

lyrics every concert? That's true. Have you guys

heard that version? No, but it sounds interesting.

Thankfully not. Oh, I'll put a link so that you

can put it in the show notes because it's worth

seeing for everybody ever. And we just lost our

viewership. Don't hate on the D. I like the D.

I just don't want lyrics to that song because

it's so good. It's like singing the X -Men theme

song. Matt, who has a better theme and who used

music better throughout the series? Well, I don't

know, I feel like this, I can't fairly judge

this category because when I hear just the first,

you know, three or four seconds of Next Generation,

I'm like five again. Yep. And it's like that,

that was what I grew up with and that's what

it's going to be. Like, I like both themes. I

really do. I don't dislike both themes, but the

original series one gets on my nerves faster

than the Next Generation one does. Like, I can

just listen to the Next Generation theme in the

background, like on a somewhat... Softer tone

and just be like, yeah, this is awesome. We're

the original series eventually. I'm gonna be

like stop that Nail fingernails on chalkboard,

please stop. Yeah, I enjoyed it I like all start

Star Trek themes like from well other than the

the enterprise because we have now concluded

that Birdman has terrible theme song. I'm just

kidding Totally kidding Matt, where's your vote

going on the music? Next Generation, but that's

only nostalgia. Fair enough, Steve. Well, the

funny thing about the Next Generation is actually

it's part of the motion picture theme, like part

of it. Okay. But anyways, I'm going TNG. I just

prefer the theme and the ship sounds instead

of hearing... I hear... you know as it goes past

and I know it's something minute and stupid but

plus it just the tune to it is better and you

have instead of space the final frontier it's

these are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise

so I mean it's just I don't know it's more fun

good point all right now for a category that

I completely need your guys help on because I

know nothing about it Which franchises had the

better games? You can talk about board games,

card games, video games, arcade games, or however

which way you want to go with this. Which franchise

has produced better games? Where do we even start

with this one? They have good games? There have

been some good games. I mean, I can even talk

about some of the role playing games, stuff done

by Fossa, Last Unicorn, and Decipher. I think

arguably the best one is probably the Decipher

one, although FASA did put together a pretty

good board game for the original series. There

was actually even a Starship Battles miniatures

game, very similar to Star Wars Empire that's

out right now. It's like that little X -Wing

game. um there were a number of really good star

trek original games that came out on the pc in

the 90s there's like star feet academy i think

it was called star trek star trek command they

were done by interplay and like i said i think

from 1997 98 till probably about 2003 2004 Uh,

they're really good set in the original kind

of universe you can play as the romulans the

gorn the cling on the federation They were really

really cool. Um There were games on the next

generation like star trek, uh federation really

good game there is Federation 2, I think it was.

I can't remember. I reviewed one on my show like

a year and a half ago. There was also Star Trek

Elite Force, which is more Voyager but still

set in the TNG era timeline. There was a couple

games on the Genesis. There was a couple games

on the Super Nintendo. There were games on the

NES. I would argue that the better ones were

the original series because I think then you

could explore the lore a little bit more than

the TV series could and You could really expand

upon it and you could mod them because I remember

playing Starfleet Command Modding the crap out

of my ships. I could have Starfleet Marines board

Klingon ships and that was so cool Although some

of the later TNG games did start to get it right,

but I haven't played one that's truly great.

There was one that came up for the 360 a couple

of years ago, or sorry, not a couple of years,

probably about eight years ago now. I can't remember

what the hell it was called, but it wasn't bad.

Yeah, someone else. I'm going for hours. I've

never played a next generation game. I remember

renting or getting from somebody or something,

one of the original series games, and it had

to be either for the Nintendo, the Super Nintendo,

possibly the Nintendo 64, but it was one of those

early, you know, first couple generations of

Nintendo's games, systems, and all I remember

is that the game was freaking impossible. I remember

being Kirk and then you had like your your your

away team, which you could pick, I believe, certain

members to join you. Are you talking about the

one where you get under the planet and you get

stuck in the cave? Yeah. I still have that one.

The 25th anniversary game. All I remember is

it being hard as hell. Blue label, right? And

I just couldn't figure out what the heck I was

supposed to do It was like one of those we had

to get one thing in order to do something else

in order to do something else Yeah, it was it

was a pain in the ass. Even the controls were

difficult It was not a very good port. I think

that was a port of the Apple II version Or the

one for the Mac. That is the limit of my Star

Trek gaming experiences Steve. You've played

a few games though, right? I've played some on

where you just command the ships. I've played

them all the way back to when they were like

DOS games. Okay. And various incarnations of

that as well. Is it true that the computer has

had better Star Trek games than like the actual

consoles? By far and away. Yeah, I would definitely

say so. The console versions pale in comparison

usually. I've had a few that have been entertaining

for about an hour, and the PC I'm at least able

to keep entertained for a few until they get

too difficult to continue. Which games have you

had the most enjoyment from, Steve? I've played

Star Trek Online. It's halfway decent. I wouldn't

say that it's perfect or anything. I enjoyed

back in the day the 25th anniversary game until

I got stuck in that cave. Because I did figure

it out pretty well. I just once I got in that

cave I screwed there was and I guess there's

a lot of episodes to that that game Once you

get past that point, but I never did and DOS

is dead. So Can't play it anymore Don't know

why I still have the disc I've also played not

necessarily on the computer. I've I've played

like the hero clicks board games, okay of the

the original series and like the the Federation

verse the Klingons and It's it's actually It's

actually quite fun Matt what's your gaming experience

when it comes to the Star Trek franchise? Have

you had you played any of the Star Trek games?

Maybe a dozen of them like I know I've played

at least a little bit of bridge commander I played

Ship Creator. I mentioned earlier I played the

MMO. I played Starfleet Command 1 and 3. I played

whatever that ground -based RTS was that was

really bad. Oh, man. I was waiting for someone

to mention that. That piece of shit. I still

have my disc somewhere, and I bet I could find

it in five minutes if I needed it, but I would

never need it. Like, that thing was glitchy,

even patched up, you know, years later. to the

point of being unplayable. What about any gaming

experience outside of video games with Star Trek?

Does anybody have any? Oh, God, the role -playing

games. As you guys know, I'm a huge tabletop

gamer. I do thesewordsareterrible .com. There's

my one shameless plug. There'll be more, guys.

For me, I'd say I like... There have been different

games for the various franchises. Back in the

mid -90s, there was a company called Last Unicorn,

and they produced games for the original series,

TNG, DS9. There was a Voyage one, but it got

canceled because the company lost the license

or they went out of business or something. One's

in the later 2000s, done by Decipher, I think

it was. And those ones I didn't mind, although

I like Fast's rules. Those were the early ones

in the early, early to mid 80s. And it came in

a box set. And I've always just liked how Fast's

rules, they're really easy and quick to kind

of learn. I mean, kind of like Shadowrun. if

you're familiar with that particular role -playing

system. Now, I don't recall what system they

use for that, but I do like the box art for it.

I'm trying to think here if there's anything

superior about any of the other non -video gamey

stuff. There there is a starship battle game

which is like I said is played very similar to

Star Wars Rebels or Empire whatever the hell

it is right now and That's a lot of fun and that's

classic TNG or sorry not or that makes no sense

And and that's classic series stuff and that's

a lot of fun. Um, I think a lot of classic classic

RPG for the classic series can be a lot of fun

because you're not Your imagination has to do

more because you almost have too much when you

involve the stuff from TNG forward with the kind

of role -playing stuff, because like you said,

you can put in the Borg, you can put in the Ferengi

and all this other stuff. And if you're not a

decent game master and storyteller, you can lose

the storyline in... the details like you transport

to this and starbase 83 and the fringy whatever

whereas with the classic series i find you had

the story came first because you had a limited

tool sets you really i found you had to work

a little bit harder now that's a debatable point

because you could make the same argument for

tng from a purely role playing standpoint but

i would say classic series is a little bit better

on that side of gaming because I think they treat

the franchise, this is a little bit better because

it is so beloved. But one of the things that

no one talks about, and this is a video game,

there were two of these that we haven't brought

up, there's one called Borg Assimilator, which

is essentially a torture device. You grip a stick

and it gives you this electric shock. It's like

you're being assimilated, and you have to hold

on for as long as you can. And the other one

was an Elite Forces Phaser Rifle light gun game

that was in the arcades. Wow. That was pretty

friggin' cool. But overall, if I had to say Classic

Series wins here, because I think the era forced

you to be more creative, and the video games

were treated better. Fair enough. Matt, what

do you think as far as the overall games go?

Which franchise do you think has the better selection?

Well, I feel like it's unfair as far as my vote

because my friends would never play the card

games with me and though I've had a regular RP

group all my life, they're all like, well, we'll

do D &D, but Star Trek RP is too nerdy. So I

haven't had too much experience. I don't think

it's the opposite. I have very interesting friends,

let's say. So, like, I never got to experience

anything but the video games, and I don't know,

I feel like the next generation video games,

you know, since it was closer to the video game

era, were treated better. So I'm gonna say next

generation, though I probably would have more

fun playing the other ones. Steve, what do you

think? I'm gonna go... We have one vote for each.

I'm going T -N -G. Alright. Two votes for T -N

-G. I will simply revert back to the fact that

first of all I know Birdman plays a shit ton

of games and he voted for the original series.

And second, the only game I've ever played for

any of them was the original series. So even

though it was hard as crap, frustrating, and

not very rewarding. I will cast my vote for the

original series, which makes it another tie.

Alright, moving on to the 16th category. We're

almost done, folks. Only a few more to go. 16th

category, we can't break down the series without

breaking down the movies that came from the series,

so this is our one chance to really delve into

the movies a little bit. Which franchises had

the better overall movies? Obviously for the

original we have The Motion Picture, The Wrath

of Khan, The Search for Spock, The Voyage Home,

The Final Frontier, The Undiscovered Country,

and I guess you could then think about the recent

reboot. And for the next generation you have

Generations, First Contact, Insurrection, and

Nemesis. Matt, how do you break down the movies

for each franchise? Well, I think with TNG everyone

has their opinions. I think with the original

series, everyone has the same opinion, which

is that half of them are bad. That said, I think

in a lot of respects, some of the older series

movies are more known than the older series,

but that might just be a time factor since, you

know, I was, you know, born after almost every

one of the movies were done for the original

series. And the series had been off the air for

20 years. Yeah, I do think you're right though

that there's usually more of a universal Accepted

opinion about With the original series that this

movie is bad. This movie is good. This movie

is bad This movie is good. Whereas the the next

generation movies There's a lot of back and forth

a lot of people will like a certain movie and

a lot of people will hate a certain movie Birdman,

what do you think about the movie franchises

of each one? I think arguably And this is obviously

my opinion. With TNG, the one everybody says

is awesome is First Contact, right? Yeah. When

you ask people what's the best original series

movies, you get a bunch of different opinions

because they're frankly better. Wrath of Khan

is a film classic. And that's a movie I actually

call a film. not a movie. And that meant that

to me it means it's a step above your average

popcorn flick. You get such a great chemistry

in almost every single movie because that cast

is so good together. I mean, Voyage Home is the

Star Trek movie for non -Star Trek people. It

draws people in. You don't need to know sweet

and crap all about Star Trek. And it's still

fun. Nuclear vessels, transparent aluminum. Double

dumbass on you There's some okay. I know some

people really hate certain next -generation films,

but overall I enjoy all of the next -generation

films to different I even enjoy insurrection

Maybe at a different level, but I enjoy them

all whereas there is some of the original series

movies that are just awful The first one is what

they originally used for torture in Guantanamo

Bay And that's not the only awful one amongst

them Come on, Final Frontier is goofy because

what does God need with a starship? That's hilarious!

That is one of the worst movies ever. Why does

Shatner... Well, God dancing in the desert should

just be an animated GIF somewhere. It's hilarious!

And you got Ohura actually doing something. See?

Shake that ass! If you include the reboots, I

guess that's not fair, but since there hasn't

been any reboots for the next generation yet,

um... But I help them, but I think the previous

are really good no matter what everybody else

says about them I have really enjoyed both of

the film so far in this new Chapter of the original

series so that there's definitely more movies

to pick from so I guess even if you take the

three or four shitty movies out from the original

series And you add the reboots in you're still

left with a bunch of good movies, so there's

definitely more volume Don't know Steve. What

do you think crap though, man? Come on? Which

one in the darkness was crying disagree. I agree.

Oh It was a cobbled together piece of shit. That

was Robocop so that I will give you we've gotten

into that before I will forever disagree with

your guys's opinion on into darkness But Steve

we haven't got your opinion overall which which

well being that that's a reboot it doesn't count

Well, I would say that I have I Mean three out

of the the four TNG films I enjoy I will argue

that that first contact is the best of the TNG

and I almost argue that nemesis for some reasons

and Generations for some reasons. I had generations.

The only good part about it is beginning is Captain

Kurt That's just, that's just the whole movie

for me. And it's such a bitch way for the Enterprise

to go out too. Yeah, because Troy was at the

controls. The Enterprise was killed by Google

Glass. Yep. It's, ugh! There's just as many moments

from The Final Frontier in the motion picture.

Well, the motion picture was just a piece of

shit anyway, and then you get a figure two that

it came out after Star Wars. So they were competing

don't ever watch those two movies back -to -back

by the way don't ever watch Star Trek the motion

picture and then any Star Wars film back -to

-back or The motion picture was just too damn

long and it was just I couldn't tell, I couldn't

even appreciate it barely until I got older and

even then I still don't like it. I think Birdman

does bring up a good point though. If you're

taking a, which movie out of all of them gets

the best acclaim, Wrath of Khan is definitely

set on a pedestal above any other Star Trek film

that's ever been made. I'll tell you why. Because

it's because it was actually well written. There

was some gravity to it as well because when Spock

died that was a game changer I Mean, it's like

like films today where they don't actually kill

any main character. Yeah, and they get saved

by magic blood Sorry, I had to I'm a horrible

person you are it's okay, but the right guy said

Khan in that film and the wrath of Khan Let's

get into some more nitpicks on a new movie. I

find that I enjoy Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock,

Voyage Home, and Undiscovered Country. For me,

because Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country

are my top two in that whole. I like Voyage Home

too, but those are my top two out of the series.

I find that it trumps TNG in this category. Fair

enough. And Birdman, you're voting for the original

series as well? Absolutely. Like I said, the

original cast has better chemistry. Though my

favorite Star Trek movie is First Contact, one

movie doesn't make it the best. Matt, what do

you think? I don't feel like it's as cut and

dry for me as it is for everyone else. Like,

I mean, I love all of the next generation movies.

Don't know some of my earliest full -form memories

are about watching insurrection on VHS in my

parents bedroom because I didn't have a VHS player

when I rented it Which is not a sentence you

can say much anymore but like I Don't know wrath

of Khan is iconic Like I think still today if

you hear the word Khan everyone goes to that

movie even if they've never seen it just for

the quote That's true. Well the other thing too

not to not to cut in, but the Wrath of Khan,

that was deep, plus it brought back a villain

from the original series. Also, I find that the

undiscovered country had gravitas as well because

for one, it didn't have to do with whales, but

it had to do with saving a species so they could

stretch their faces. But the undiscovered country

stopped interstellar war between the Klingon

Empire and the Federation True I Didn't see that's

my favorite though. Yeah, I think I need to rewatch

the old ones personally like all of them just

in order One in five and there's there's another

one to skip in there, too There's so many - I've

heard a lot of bad things about Three. Three's

hilarious, come on! Doc Brown as a Klingon. I

actually don't mind that one as much as... Man,

One -Five. I really don't like Undiscovered Country

either. But I think of it this way. If you had

to sit me down and say... I'm not gonna tell

you which one, but we're gonna watch a Star Trek.

film from the classic series or a star trek next

generation film i'm always going to pick the

next generation film or if you said you're going

to have to watch all of them one through you

know six or one through four i'm going to pick

the next generation films to watch ten times

out of ten but if you were asking me if we're

comparing it to the series i guess and this is

the way i'm going to cast my vote the next generation

films i don't need them because the series was

so good whereas for me the original series movies

are better than the series most of the time like

they add a lot more to the series i know that's

happening after the fact but i mean too if you're

looking at it as an overall franchise they add

so much more to that than the next generation

films do if that makes any sense whatsoever Um,

it does in my head, so I'm going with that. No,

I'm gonna have to agree with you 100 % because

I feel like the next generation movies, at best,

all they are is a longer episode. It's like a

deleted scene on a film. It's like, oh, you love

this series? Here, watch this little bonus. Yeah,

it's like, like, there's no, you know, some of

them don't even have, like, the moral quandaries

that were so huge in TNG. Some of them just feel

like more action movie than... It's just, we

didn't get quite enough of that group, so let's

see some more of them. Whereas... to me you can't

take the original series movies out of the if

you take them out of the equation then not as

many people are still talking about the original

series in my opinion because some of those movies

meant a lot to a lot of people so so that's the

reason i'm going to cast my vote for the original

series even though i would always watch the next

generation films over them I'm 100 % with you

for exactly the same reasons. Alright, so that

is a clean sweep for the original series when

it comes to movies and luckily we, for the most

part, avoided any tirades and debates on the

reboot. So that's a positive, that's a win. Going

into the 17th category here. Which franchise

is the most quotable? Here's a fun one for you.

So you got Khan the scream there for the original

series fascinating for mr Spock Mr. Spock's all

over the place live long and prospered. That's

highly illogical The needs of the many outweigh

the needs of the few or the one He's dead Jim

or I'm damn it Jim or I'm a doctor not a blank

Or Scotty we talked about her him earlier with

I'm giving her she's got captain Next generation

you have obviously the different call signs from

Picard engage or make it so Resistance is futile

from the Borg shields up red alert things like

that which happened almost in every episode To

me, this one's pretty clear -cut, but I'd like

to get your guys' opinions when you look back

at ones. Which one gave you more quotes that

stuck in your mind, Birdman? Without a doubt,

the original series, because that cast sold it.

I don't know. It seems to me those classic Star

Trek quotes are literally part of a geek. social

consciousness, like we just all know them. Once

again, you can do the same thing for TNG, but

I don't know. I look at the original series and

I feel more towards them. Now, obviously I love

TNG with engage, make it so obviously Worf's

thing and the Borg thing. I don't know. I think

the original series is infinitely more, more

kind of quotable and it resonates more. Really

think it does. I mean they just they mean more

with the TNG not so much. I Don't know if I necessarily

see it like that, but I definitely do see the

original series as being more quotable I think

I might go into some stuff that we'll talk about

in a little bit with the writing and stuff. Whereas

there was more Engaging things for them to deal

with in the next generation where they didn't

need the quotes. Maybe I don't know but but The

original series just has quote after quote after

quote. Every character seems like they have a

call, a quote most known for them, whether it

be the way Kirk talks and gives him a bunch of

quotes, Spock has quotes, Bones has quotes, Scotty

has quotes. Everybody had quotes that they kind

of went to. That just wasn't part of the next

generation, whether it be by design or just by

happenstance. So that's why, for me, it's a sure

thing for the original series. Matt, what do

you think? It's funny because you know like I

think in arguably the old series is more quoted

in pop culture and things like that But I think

just in my personal group who in the last two

years we sat down and watched all of Next Generation

and the movies and Yeah with it was actually

before Nate moved back up, so you and I weren't

even talking at this point So like and I think

to that group And I feel like the number one

most quoted thing wasn't even something said

in the show so much as an attitude from one episode

Which was the one where Picard's the negotiating

the contract between the two races and he was

just a cocky bastard the whole time And it's

all like what are we gonna do last time we had

like 30 legislators like well this time you've

got me I'm the Picard bitches It was just like

I'm the Bacard bitches is probably the most quoted

thing of that whole series And he didn't even

say that he just kind of threw it out there It's

no no question no no no the original series no

question All right, so a roundabout way to vote

for the original series. I like it Steve. What

do you think? Well, I think it's pretty cut and

dry here for me, but I the original series just

has a lot more quoteable lines from every character.

I would say the films had more than the original

series did itself. The original series had a

lot of iconic lines that people were known for.

The beam me up Scotty, I'm giving her all she's

got or I'm a doctor, blah, blah, blah. But I

think the films added extra stuff to it as well.

The double dumb ass on you or I never trusted

the Klingons or whatever, the needs of the many.

You look at TNG, they do have things that are

specific to each character as well. I would almost

equate that to being a Roddenberryism because

the later series don't really have the same type

thing as these two. There are a few other ones

that are on there for TNG as well. Overall, I'd

have to go with the original series here. Alright,

so another clean sweep for the original series.

Quotes are one thing, but what if we break it

down to the actual writing on the show? Which

series had better writers, had better stories,

had better plots, had better things that they

tackled in general? Which series is superior

in that respect? Matt, why don't you start this

one off? Well, I feel like a lot of us are gonna

go into this category thinking well, this is

just entirely one -sided But I think the one

thing I want to say in the defense of the original

series is that though I've almost every episode

of next generation was great Like I think I can

think of a couple of old series episodes that

just stand out And I can't think of very many

episodes of the new series that stand out and

that might be because the old series had more

bad in between the great ones but like I can't

think of an episode of Next Generation that really

hits as hard as like and let that be your last

battlefield with the Frank Gorshin and the the

red and black and the black or the red and white

or the fucking black and white and white and

black guys like it's like he's black on the right

side like I don't know like I think the writing

in that episode and there are a couple other

ones but I mean some of them are just really

stand out and I don't feel like there's anything

like that in the next generation, though maybe

on an episode to episode basis it was probably

better. Yeah, I can see what you're saying with

that. Burban, what do you think on the writing

overall for the series? I think there are some

great questions that the next generation poses.

I mean, one of my favorite episodes being Measure

of a Man, another one being, oops, sorry, Inner

Light, I think it is, that season four episode.

And there are some damn good TNG episodes, but

when I think of episodes that changed attitudes

in the decade they were produced, I think of

Star Trek, the classic series. I really do. And

honestly, it's weird because I honestly would

probably go the other way if I had to go on Impulse.

But the classic series, it knocked it out of

the park when it needed to. If I had... my own

idea for a show or my own idea for a franchise

or whatever it might be. And I got to pick one

of the writing teams, either the writing team

that worked on the original series or the writing

team that worked on The Next Generation. I would

not even hesitate in picking The Next Generation's

writing team. The topics they tackled, the moral

dilemmas that they went after, the way that they

put in the science fiction fantasy world things

that you could directly correlate with you know

stuff that we were going through in real world

stuff you know just human issues in general to

me far exceeded what what the original series

ever was able to do whether it be the different

stuff they did with data and the human element

whether it be you know different things with

honor and different stuff like that with wharf

just the even more so what they did with it was

in the different aliens or different species,

different forms of life that they came into contact

with and how they used that to explore different

parts of our own psyche and of our own, you know,

the human element. To me, this one's a slam dunk

for the next generation. Steve, what do you think?

I'm just gonna have to go slam dunk next generation.

It was just overall, it's better plots, better

story, better writing, conversation, everything

overall was just... just better in that category

what do you think matt well i don't know birdman's

got a really good point that the original series

changed hearts and minds and and i don't know

if that's because of the quality of the writing

or because back in the 60s there were fewer tv

shows that it had to compare to um i want to

say they both had great writing um And though

I think Next Generation's probably my favorite

TV show of all time, I'm gonna give it to the

old one just for the hard -hitting episodes it

did have. Alright. Maybe I need to rewatch some

of the old series, but it's somewhat painful

sometimes. Alright. That would cause that category

to come out with our third tie of the show, and

that will leave us in our last two categories.

See what happens here In category 19. We're looking

at the critical acclaim of the shows whether

it be awards nominations whether it be You know

just like the overall impact We're not talking

about the overall franchise and which franchise

you liked or which series you liked better But

just more of what the series was able to accomplish

From a critical acclaim standpoint, I guess Obviously

if you went straight by the data then that wouldn't

be a discussion But there might be a little bit

of room for debate within that if we're going

on straight on awards Maybe not fair because

the Next Generation was on for so much longer,

but the original series was nominated for 28

different major awards, won five of them. The

Next Generation was nominated for 86 major awards

and won 32 of them, including the first ever

syndicated series to be nominated for Outstanding

Drama Series. How do you break this down as far

as critical acclaim what it meant to? Maybe pop

culture or to the franchise in general without

necessarily giving your opinion on which Series

you liked better Bergman, which one which one's

better for a claim? I would argue TNG for sure

just because it won Some really important awards,

especially for writing plus sound so Ultimately,

critical claim. I got to go TNG for sure. I think

the other thing that the next generation might

have done was more so legitimize Star Trek as

a franchise in general. Maybe that's too strong

a wording, but. It did more to say that this

isn't just a science fiction thing. This isn't

just a reboot or a second try at the original

series to try to introduce us to new fans or

whatever. I mean it really took something and

said this is serious and this is something we're

doing well. We're doing and we're gonna do a

good job with it. You know based on all these

words whether it be this technical aspects the

sound aspects the writing or whatever like This

is a serious show that deals with serious issues,

and it wasn't just this You know popcorn science

fiction type series, so I'm gonna have that going

forward to Matt. What do you think? I'm not saying

that the original series was any of that. I'm

just saying like it. You know decades later Had

a certain impact with the next generation that

allowed deep space nine and and and the voyager

and etc to happen Which might not happen without

the success of the next generation Yeah, yeah,

I mean Star Trek was huge in the 90s at least

as far as I I've ever seen um I don't know like

part of me wants to just be bitter and be like

well Will Wheaton got two awards on next generation

so the next generation is disqualified but like

You think about the original series and had such

far -reaching social things all the way across

the world. And I don't know, you know, maybe

I'm just not versed as well, but I don't know

that happening with Next Generation. You know,

in critical acclaim of the viewership rather

than just the award organizations, like I don't

think it's as clear -cut to me as it is to everyone

else. Fair enough Steve. What do you think I?

think that Just for starters, I think the original

series got kind of shafted just because it was

nominated For one it was almost double the awards

groups that Right, more awards groups exist now

than they did back then, so that's definitely

a good way of looking at it. Which I get. And

the fact that it was so kind of new and different

that it was either you liked it or you didn't,

whereas by the 80s when TNG came out in the early

90s, sci -fi was pretty much everywhere because

the 80s kind of blew it out of proportion and

so did the late 70s. If you were a sci -fi fan,

this was kind of right up your alley anyway And

not only that but you also had you know this

show because of how successful it was spawned

two other shows that are in the same Century

continuity right and I don't want to make it

sound like obviously without the original series

none of it happens I guess if it's not successful

and lasts for the three years that it does thank

God it lasted past that pilot but You know, so

I don't want to make it seem like that that Star

Trek Next Generation should get all the credit

or something because obviously the Star Trek

is the original series for a reason. And you're

right, there's a lot more award groups around

later on so that's possibly a factor as to why

the Next Generation had more awards and nominations

and stuff like that. Steve, where do you think

you're going with vote on this one though? Just

because it was just overall, there was more memorable...

aspects to the series, which is why it actually

won more nominations. So I'd have to go with

the next generation. Matt, what did you think

after all that? I'm gonna, I'm just gonna say

the original one. I don't know. It's close. They

both got good arguments. Fair enough, which leads

us to our final category. Last chance to influence

the overall tally. This is just your own personal

opinion. Which series is better, Dodd? Ultimately,

TNG, because it did run longer. It had a chance

to tell more stories within it. Do you like TNG

better? I like TNG better, but I like the movies

for the original series better. That makes sense.

And I think... I do appreciate what the original

series accomplished in terms of... The social

impact that it needed to happen during the 60s,

as Matt said, hearts and minds, that's very important

in terms of the history of television. But in

terms of creating a new generation of people

opening up to science, I would say the next generation.

All right, Matt, what do you think? I casted

my vote like three ago when I said the next generation

is my favorite TV show of all time, and I'm not

changing that opinion. I have a lot of love for

a lot of 60 shows, including the old Star Trek,

but The Next Generation. Not only did I grow

up on it, when we rewatched it, like I mentioned

like two years ago, when we got to like season

seven and we had that realization that this is

going to end, like I almost wanted to cry. I

was like, this is so good and I don't ever want

it to end ever. That's true. Steve, what do you

think? Actually, I'm going to side with. I'm

gonna have to side with Mike completely on this

one. There's there's no There's no no way I could

argue anything different All right, so that is

three votes for the next generation if I'm hearing

everybody right And I will echo that I've never

made a list, I guess, of what would be my favorite

TV show of all time. I have a feeling that Next

Generation would be in my top three, maybe edged

out by MacGyver. But that's just me. Is that

a joke? No, MacGyver is my number one favorite

series of all time. Interesting. But Next Generation

would be very probably close second or close

third. I'd have to really look at a whole list

of every TV series ever to figure that out. But

I love Next Generation. I've probably seen every

episode. I don't know six seven eight times I

remember recording them on VHS tapes in my basement

like in middle school or whatever just and I

was gonna try to record everyone so I could rewatch

them again and again because it was before you

know DVDs and all that kind of stuff were really

popular etc but it just is a great series to

watch and like you said I watched that and I

don't want it to end I want to just keep going

and keep seeing more of these characters because

I love all the characters and I love the topics

they cover so I will make this again for the

next generation, which ends that category and

ends the show. So we're going to take a quick

timeout and we'll be right back with the final

verdict. Returning for its second year is Crancon

Gaming and Comics Convention on September 19th

through the 21st at the Crowne Plaza Hotel in

Grand Rapids, Michigan. This year be prepared

for more With a guest list that easily doubles

that of last year's with artists such as Mark

McKenna or game publishers like Jeff Grubb. It's

easy to want to come check them out There will

be a silent charity auction tons of panels for

gaming and comics fans and the list goes on and

on Registration is open for more information

visit the website grand -con .com All right,

thanks for sticking with us the talent the votes

have all been tallied and Unlike episode 12.

We do not have to worry. There is no tie here.

So there will be a clear -cut winner between

Trek the original series and Trek the next generation

If you go total votes, it's 47 to 29 If you go

categories, it's 11 to 5 So it's not even close.

We were right in the initial thought process

that we thought it might be a little bit of a

slam dunk. The next generation takes this one

hands down. So 11 to 5. If we went by individual

basis, Birdman, you voted next generation 10

to 9. Matt, you voted next generation 11 to 8.

Steve, you voted next generation 12 to 7. And

apparently I'm the most biased one on the group

because I voted Next Generation 14 to 5. So all

four of us had Next Generation winning this matchup,

so we can put this argument to rest. Apparently

the Next Generation is the better Star Trek series.

Final thoughts, Birdman? I'm the Vakad, bitches!

Fair enough. Final thoughts, Steve? I just...

I I'm kind of not surprised but um But yeah,

that's that's it's it's undeniably the better

series Fair enough Matt. What do you think final

thoughts? Um, I think we should have Yeah, yeah,

I think I think I would have been happier if

it was a little bit closer But I think if it

had tied like pirates and ninjas, I'd have been

a little upset That said, if I had to be on a

ship with all of the people, I would much rather

be on the original guys, because I feel like

they would be a more fun ship to be on. But yeah,

no. Minus the technology differences. The people

were just so much fun. Great characters. I think

it would be fun to sit at that poker table with

number one and Worf and Geordi. Yeah, if you

like losing a lot of money. I'll just create

some more at the holodeck and be rich in there.

Alright anybody else any final thoughts that

we haven't got out there besides the big hard

bitches Alright, I would like to thank Birdman

Steve and Matt for joining me today in the war

zone and of course Thanks to everybody else for

listening several ways to get in contact with

us or leave feedback for the show visit the website

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your Twitter? SCP -21? Birdman? It is at birdman

.hashtag Picard bitches Birdman anything else

that you'd like to pimp out as far as things

that people should be going to find you at? Well,

you can always find me at this week in geek net

you can occasionally hear me on Toronto radio

I usually on news talk 1010 depending on who's

producing that day and I'm always around on television

So keep watching always causing havoc on Twitter.

So follow him there See what all the stuff he

made fun of me about I'm just kidding. Uh -huh.

Matt. What's your Twitter? I'm at Fridley sent

And I have one podcast that's not on the GeekCastRadio

network, which is RhapsodyCast. We're on YouTube,

Potamatic, iTunes. You can find us. Absolutely.

Check that out. And I would be on Twitter at

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episodes and everything. All right. So we hope

you enjoyed this episode of GCR and Wars. Hope

that you'll join us next time when we once again

take two geek topics and pit them against each

other in an epic battle to the death. For now

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