Bethany’s Unpopular Comic and MCU Opinions

I mean, yeah, and chime in, and chime in, too,

because - Oh, no, absolutely! Yeah, yeah, yeah,

no, absolutely - But yeah, no, no, I have a list.

Yeah, it's a conversation, yeah. I'm surprised

you didn't come with a flowchart, actually. My

brain wasn't in the mood to make flowcharts for

this. For most of them, it's just like - It could

be, like, random stuff here and there. Oh, yeah.

No, no, no. Except for the MCU. That one, I could

make a damn good flowchart out of. Hey, this

is Josh Keaton, and you are listening to the

Geekcast Radio Network. I am the Watcher. I am

your guide through these vast new realities.

Follow me. And ponder the question... What if?

Wake up. Ow. Hello and welcome to The Pull Bag.

This is episode 499, ladies and gentlemen. And

we've been waiting 40 episodes for this because

it is time to present you with Bethany Forever.

Yes, I don't care what you say. I still love

that. I don't care what anyone says about that

movie. Whatever. It is what it is and that's

my opinion and I want to say this before we get

this out of the way here. This is all about Bethany

and her controversial comic and MCU opinions.

I don't, I hate the term hot take. I want to

take Mr. Freeze's cold gun and freeze every person

that uses that term. Opinions are opinions. Opinions

are like assholes. Everybody's got them. It's

okay. What? So yes, Bethany Kessler is here.

Hello. Hi. Hi. I have a lot of energy for 10

PM at night on the East Coast, ladies and gentlemen,

which I'm used to it being 7 PM on the West Coast.

But that time is time is a whole other podcast

for us at this point. Yes, yes it is. You are

here and you have a list of your unpopular comic

book and MCU opinions. Where would you like to

start? Well, we probably should start with everything

that's not an MCU thing first, because the MCU

digs up most of it. Okay, that's fine. One of,

I think probably one of, one of My, I don't know,

bigger, you know, controversial slash unpopular

opinions is that I honestly believe that Frank

Miller and Alan Moore are overrated. And, I mean,

they're... The art is okay, the words are sometimes

okay, but, I mean... I don't know, there's a

lot there that I'm just like, you know what?

If this had never existed, it would be fine.

Yeah. I can't say too much on Alan because I

honestly, what, what, what transmetropolitan

or something? I, what does he do? I don't remember

what Alan Moore created. Watchmen and then, um,

and then his was the killing joke too. Oh, right.

Yes. I, I have no. I have no opinion either way

on him, but Frank Miller, I completely agree

with you. Yeah, like one of my friends, she's

like, oh, you mean Frank Hoars, Hoars, Hoars,

Miller? And I'm like, yeah, that's accurate.

But no, and also, I mean, the only good thing

that came out of the killing joke, the only good

thing is that we got the disability representation

that we got with Oracle. That is literally the

only good thing that came out of that. The rest

of that was a whole big sort of why. Why did

we need this? Why, you know, of course, that

also goes into the why haven't we just killed

Joker? Why? I mean, there's I mean, even if Batman

couldn't pull the trigger, you know, Superman

doesn't have a problem like yeeting people into

the sun. Yeah, that or lobotomizing them or freeze

-breathing them or, you know. I mean, just because

Batman doesn't kill doesn't mean no one else

in the Justice League does. Yeah, I mean, and

then the fact that, you know, Dickerson was dead.

Yeah. then Batman, you know, the Joker was dead

and then Batman brought him back. And I'm just

like, okay, but we have all these other villains.

Yeah. And oh my God, just let him die. I'm going

to say this right now before we get too far into

the the DC comics and Marvel comics villains,

characters in general just dying and it's Because

the companies need to make money and those characters

make the money. That's the only look. There are

a lot of really good joker stories out there.

There are a lot of great Batman stories out there.

Superman who insert whatever character, maybe

even Jimmy Olsen, who the hell knows, but that's

what makes the company money. So they're always

going to try their like. Look how many times

Dan DeDildo tried to kill Nightwing. Tried to

kill Dick. True. And I'm like, forever, Evil,

you suck. Like, go away. Yeah. You know? So...

Yeah, no, and it's just like, there's some stuff

where I'm like, okay, this is superfluous. Like,

we don't actually need this. This is not something

we need. And so you've got some stuff like that,

and you've got those, and then you've got like...

But then you also have things like... You know,

Nick Spencer and the whole Secret Empire run.

And honestly, I believe everyone involved in

that run should actually have been fired for

the whole Hydra cap thing, especially since I

was like, I was like, wow, you take a character

made by a Jew and you make him a Nazi and Yeah,

honestly, I was just like wow, that's that's

full stop Unless did remind me didn't they do

something late at the end of that where it's

like gotcha Not really like they pulled a you

know thing work. Yeah backpedaled. Oh they back

Okay, well in a way that they that obviously

showed that they weren't actually like looking

at the times Right. And they weren't actually

like paying attention to like, oh, I don't know,

everything in the world at that point. Yeah.

And some of them were like, we didn't think it

would be this big a deal. And I'm like, oh, oh,

wow, that's, that's, that's a level of, of out

of touch that honestly, where are you Mars? But

yeah, no, I just, you know, just everyone that

should have never gotten off the first initial

pitch for. And that's actually the reason why

I stopped buying MCU comics. I mean, just flat

out, like, I've bought a couple here and there

for different things, but I just straight up

just stopped, you know, following those. Other

than the, other than the, like, prelude, like,

they've done several, like, one or two issue,

at least as far as I know, like, Like I have

the iron man issue one issue to iron man three

prelude stuff I didn't realize they were still

tight I didn't realize they were trying to tie

the books back into the felt like. To me the

film universe is it is its own thing and yeah

if they want to bring some of that stuff into

the comics yeah sure fine great but you gotta

do the things the right way and like you said.

Turning a jew into a nazi is not. The character

that symbolizes America into a Nazi. I just and

to have that. And while you know, one could argue

in a strange kind of this is the Simpsons sort

of way that that was foreshadowing at the same

point. I, I don't you know, it's one of those

things that makes me kind of wonder if that's

something else that kind of assisted in some

of the radicalization of people. But I mean,

that's a whole long rabbit hole we could get

trapped in forever. Oh, foreshadowing sucks and

somebody should fivehead them. So, you know,

all of that, to be said, you know, yeah, no,

I that's that's one of those things that I was

like, wow, I'm like, all right, I'm just gonna

go back to just Batman. Cause right now, just

no. Yeah. So the only thing I have with the killing

joke is yeah, you're right about the whole disability

representation and everything else. But the only

reason why I like that it was made and that it

exists is because eventually the only voice for

animated joker got to say. it takes is one bad

day. That movie is a whole other topic for a

whole other podcast. Yeah, the adaptation. But

but yeah. And Miller, it seems like he just likes

to repeat himself. Like he made the Dark Knight

returns. Then he did strikes again. And then

he did DK three and then And I haven't even finished

it. I don't even know if I ever will. There was

a, when DC launched black label, whenever the

hell they launched it years and years ago, I

don't, I honestly don't remember how old DC black

label is at this point. They launched with Superman

year one. Yeah. And it was him doing a Superman.

And I was like, the first two issues, I was with

him. I was fine. I was whatever. I'd read the

solicit for the third issue. Oh, and this is

where he goes to Gotham and meets Batman. He

just left. Just left Smallville. You mean to

tell me he's going to Gotham for like... Yeah,

exactly. Exactly. And then, of course, you know,

it's like you're just like sitting here going,

I'm like, okay. No, and then I think and then

like another one is, you know, hilariously, I

actually really love the... Actually, no, let

me save that because that can be the lead into

the MCU stuff. So I... I despise Reed Richards.

On a level with like, you know, going to the

dentist and like having colonoscopies. I would

actually rather have a colonoscopy than deal

with Reed Richards at all, because he's terrible.

He is everything that is wrong with white dudes

in one stretchy package. He's the worst. That's

what she said. And I still don't understand what

Sue Storm sees in him. There are so many other

people that could treat her the way that she

deserves to be treated, that Reed Richards doesn't

and has never treated her, and she just deserves

so much better. Yeah, my only good - Oh, I was

gonna say, because Reed Richards, I mean, people

will compare him to Tony Stark, but honestly,

Tony Stark still remembers he's supposed to have

a conscience, and morals, and ethics. And Reed

Richards doesn't. Reed Richards is just like,

he's the worst for the ins justify the means

and, oh yeah, we could do this. And, you know,

like he's like everything that is wrong with

the world in one stretchy package. Thank God

it wasn't Reed at the Sokovia Accords. Who the

hell knows? Oh, Christ on a crafter. Sorry, I

didn't mean to bring in the movies right there,

but that's the first thing I said. For me, the

Fantastic Four, I think I've told you this before

and I know I've said it on several podcasts recently.

Growing up in the 80s as a kid throughout the

90s and whatever, I was a cartoon kid. I was

never a comic kid when I was younger. For me,

when you're talking about Reed Richards, I see

what's his name? Gruffudd from the 2005 film.

Or, you know, you mentioned Tony and I'm like,

Oh, okay. Well, yes. Everything you just said

about Tony. Yes. He has his scruples and he has

certain lines that he will and won't cross, but

there's still a thing where Tony will cross more

lines than anybody else usually would kind of

thing. But Reed apparently is like this whole

other level. beyond what Tony does. I need to

read up on the Fantastic Four. I really, really

do. Yeah. And it's just like, there's one point,

and of course, because Reed Richards shows up

in Doctor Strange, and of course, the minute

he shows up in Doctor Strange, and all of a sudden,

I'm just trying to not flail the Darth Vader

choke hands in the theater. Meanwhile my mother's

like what in the hell? He's just standing there

trying not to laugh Because I just I have such

a visceral Reaction to seeing him on screen.

That's the good thing about the Tim story movies

is that at least it's slightly comical It's bad,

but at least it's comically bad. It's not so

like, oh my god. Yeah, and it was one of those

where I was just like, I was like, and nope,

nope, nope, big nope. So yeah, no, that was one

thing where, you know, they were, they were kind

of cracking up a little. But one of the other

things is, so I really actually enjoyed the 2006

Civil War run for Marvel. Like, I actually it

was a well thought out arc. They were well thought

out, like they had really actually like put some

time and effort into thinking about what would

happen if like if X event happened. And like,

what would that look like? And they didn't sacrifice

characterization. Right, um, and they did a good

job of showing You know the the issues of this

is what happened, you know, because that that's

that's one thing where it's There's not an easy

answer to that Mm -hmm, and They did some amazing

stuff just like with some of their the way they

characterize things and like the way that it

became you know, this sort of you know, there

was this big overarching thing and then you could

see all of the ramifications of that, like, encapsulated

in, like, the smaller conflicts, like, the conflicts

between, like, Reed and Sue, the conflicts between,

like, Tony and Steve, and then to have that tie

in to the Brubaker Captain America comics and

then the death of Captain America, that was really

good! It was really impacting. There were points

in that comic where I sobbed. Yeah. And to see

all the different little tie, the tie ins, which

all they took an interesting conflict idea. And

they Spread it out over all their books and then

they and they did it in a way that didn't sacrifice

characterization it didn't require people holding

the idiot ball and they did it in a way that

was that felt authentic. And that's the way comics

need to be you can tell whatever story you want

to tell with whatever characters that they let

you use or whatever story idea you have. But

if you're going to tell a massive story like

civil war or whatever big event, like crisis

on infinite whatever, you know, everything has

to have its place for the larger story with,

like you're saying without having to sacrifice

anything. Yeah. I mean, there are ways. And it

was one of those there are ways to do that. Now,

it's not exactly the easiest thing. Of course,

speaking as a writer and as someone who's been

in fandom for way too long. And, you know, it's

it's not easy. It's not necessarily an easy thing

to do, but it can be done. It just requires you

to think about it and it requires you to not.

you know, not take the easy shortcut. And in

a lot of cases, that's been like a lot of recent

comic stuff and a lot of recent comic movies

have just relied too much on taking that easy

shortcut. And it shows. And it's, it's aggravating

on like a cellular level. And that's the thing

we we have attachments to these characters, whether

on the page or on the screen. You know you you

build up a story or you start a story and you

get your reader like that's the that's the thing

about single -issue come, you know monthly comics

where Issue one issue two is you know near and

you end up let's just say Over 12 months reading

a whole series or the first part of a series

or whatever depending on releases and all that

They're getting you sucked into it and they're

getting you To the point where i really like

this character i hope the best for this character

oh my god this is the worst thing that could

happen to this character and you know they make

us feel things and that's the whole point of.

Any entertainment medium is that whatever those

characters are going through which they have

to be written well they can't just be. Hi, I'm

Tony Stark and I'm rich and I'm just gonna build

a suit of armor to case around the world and

blah blah blah blah blah Like you can't you can't

do that, you know Yeah, and then I mean and you

know, you've got things like You know Tony will

have it, you know in the same comic I think where

where Kate Bishop and Clint Barton meet for the

same time. You also have that that moment of

Tony wanting Clint to wear the flag and use the

and use cap shield, you know, wanting him to

be kept because he's the only one that can throw

the shield accurately. Like there's, you know,

there's stuff like that. And those are great,

awesome character moments. And just there's,

there's too much where people are taking shortcuts.

Or they're relying on characters to hold the

idiot ball and be dumber than they normally would

be in order to make plot work. And that's never

okay. I mean, that's not okay in comics. It's

not okay in movies or TV shows. It's not okay

in entertainment. It doesn't matter what it is.

I mean, you take a look at whatever, insert Batman

video game now, whatever it is. Like right now,

it's Gotham Knights as of this recording. And

Gotham Knights, the story is Bruce died. So everybody

else in the Bat family has to take up the mantle.

You have, you have Batgirl, Barbara Gordon, Dick

Grayson, Nightwing, Red Hood, Jason Todd, and

Tim Dreg Robin. So you have those number of characters

where the gay, and that's the interesting thing

about video games is it's story repetition because

you have to tell it from each. characters perspective,

depending on who the, like me or you or Alison

or Michael Bailey or whoever the hell, whatever

character we choose to use, that's their story.

That's not just like, it isn't like going back

to Arkham asylum or Arkham city where it's, it's

Batman versus everybody. That's not, you know,

and that storytelling has to stick. It has to

stick the landing for the characters. Because

it's their overall story. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

And so you've got so yeah, like you've got stuff

like that. And it's just, you know, as an aside,

this is why I love the show Leverage because

Leverage lied on the fact that no character held

the idiot ball. And so you They had to actually

think about certain things and had to work out

certain things. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so

you've got stuff like that. That being said,

while I love the 2006 Civil War run, I absolutely

despise what they did to it for the MCU. Okay,

well. The difference is, okay, so let me ask

you, because I don't know. It's something I need

to read. I know of it in passing. I know the

broad strokes of the 2006 Civil War run. How

many issues overall was that? Oh, gosh, that

was like nine or 10 issues. Hold on. Give me

a second. I can actually pull that up. Yeah,

it's like. How many issues was, cause I mean,

you had the main arc and then you had like all

the offshoots for like the different other stories,

but the main arc was no, the main arc was seven

issues. Okay. Seven issues of a comic book that

came out whenever it was, you know, however it

was released, you have to cram all of that story,

not including any of the side stuff into. Here's

the thing. They didn't have, here's the thing,

you could actually do that. There are ways you

could actually do that that aren't what they

did. That it was one of those where it was just

like, it's... Well, for starters, the MCU relies

very heavily. on no one asking any questions,

ever. Yeah, they do. And the problem with that

is, is that that's okay if you're like an actual

children's show. That's not okay for like comics

entertainment for people who've been comics fans

for five to 30 years. And while I know they're

like, you know, well, it's going to bring some

people in, yes, and it's going to, yes, and then

you're going to find all of these fans who find

all of these comic books and then get extremely

pissed off because the characterization is shit.

And I think that's why when they market it to

the general audience that isn't us, they are

basically telling you, watch this for the experience

of the story that we are telling you. They are

not telling the general audience to go seek out

the comics after watching Civil War. Yeah. Well,

and it would be one thing if the, if the different

outlying universe actually made cohesive sense

and they'd actually stop bothered to like actually

stop and think about how all the pieces were

going to fit together, but they didn't. And Like

it comes up like so, you know, it really it really

really fell off the rails Before you know right

around the very first Avengers movie That's when

it that's when it really started to like kind

of fall off the rails a bit and it's not the

actors Oh no, it has no, it's, it's the writing.

It's the story. It's, it's how it's presented.

And the writing and, and because essentially

Whedon just reduced every character to like being

one note characters. And it was. Which I don't

want to get into the whole weeds of that guy

outside of the context that he was the director

of the film kind of thing, but. The thing is

with that guy and the way that he creates universes

for his own content or the content that he's

done in the last, like you said, 10, 20, 30,

he's better than that. He should not have had

to do what he did. There's those characters.

Yeah. I mean, and the fact that, you know, you've

got. And it's just like, it's one of those things

that it just, it irks me. Because. You know,

and I can understand they're like, Oh yeah, it's

an ensemble movie. We need to give everybody

some space. I'm like, okay, but there are ways

of doing that without reducing every single ensemble

character to a basic one note performance. Yeah.

And you know, it's like, there's some stuff that,

you know, you could, you could ignore like Steve

Rogers, just going language, which, okay, this

is a kid who grew up in New York. Uh huh. during

the Depression and the beginnings of World War

II! You cannot! And then he joined the army!

You cannot tell me! Well, first he joined the

USO and then he joined the army. You cannot tell

me that Steve Rogers doesn't have the filthiest

mouth known to God! Think we lost the element

of surprise Wait a second. No one else is gonna

deal with the fact that cap just said language

I know and that is most likely true in some other

what -if MCU universe I mean, I mean I mean I'm

related to like my entire family is military

my entire family's like and ain't none of us

got You know have have that that That instinct

of, oh, pearl -clutching language. I mean, the

only time you ever hear that really is, you know,

as if there are small, small children around,

but there were no small children on that bridge.

No, there weren't. But again, you have to think

of how they set him up and how, as an actor,

Chris Evans portrayed him. He's supposed to be

the ultimate Boy Scout. That's what he's supposed

to be regardless of how he grew up Which is really

funny because you know most of the Boy Scouts.

I know also swear Okay. Yes, but It's a you're

right. I'm not saying you're not right in what

you're saying. I'm just saying From what I see

of it. It's like oh They want him to be the pure

so and we can get into this here in a second

when we fully jump off the page and onto the

screen is that. Tony stark tails steve rogers

heads there two sides same coin tony is supposed

to be the. Shit damn fuck why the fuck we do

this fuck. And Steve is supposed to be, oh, gee,

golly, Batman, I didn't know that you were in

the Marvel Cinematic Universe. You know what

I mean? Like, see, that's the thing is not Batman.

He's not Dick Grayson. I know, I know. I mean,

it's one of those where I'm like, I am not I'm

not expecting that. Like, I'm not saying that

every other mouth, every other word out of his

mouth should have been swearing. Right. Yeah.

That always stuck in my head is going. Really?

Really? That's the hill they're gonna die on?

Yeah, I think that moment though, the one that

you're talking about, the only, I mean, again,

just based off of Steve in the MCU, he did that

so much, much, much later, whenever the hell

it was, Tony could throw it back in his face.

Yeah. Cause Tony throws it back in his face in

whichever, I forget if it's infinity war and

get, I don't know. Something happened. The marvelous

dramatic universe is a blur to me right now,

because from 2008 to 2019, that's 11 years and

22, 23 movies. And I watched them all and I enjoyed

most of them. So alright, let me I mean I'm not

again this is your episode these are your controversial

videos But you mentioned earlier about how the

team just doesn't seem to work in 2012 Avengers

and I'm like Yeah, because the only time I've

ever cared about Thor is when he's with the team.

I could give a shit less about Thor I do not

care about that character at all Well, no and

see that's the thing. I mean there was There

was a lot more like like there are ways that

you could have made that You could have made

the ensemble movie better. But the that movie

also is where you know, it it It punctures its

own. Oh Since like well, it kind of you know

you've got that suspension of disbelief, right?

But it also it punctures its own sense of disbelief.

Because, like, you have somebody deciding, yeah,

okay, we're just gonna throw a nuke on Manhattan.

Because that that makes sense. But it also opens

up other deeper questions. Like, you know, for

example, I really, really, really would like

to know, you know, why, you know, when it comes

down to like, you know, Bucky and Tony's parents,

you know, I desperately want to know, did Peggy

Carter know? Did Fury know? Were they parts?

Were they part of that cover up? Because it strikes

me as them being and, you know, like, were they,

you know, and if S .H .I .E .L .D. has been around

since the 50s or 60s, where's that funding coming

from? And is that funding why they covered the

assassination up? And were Howard or Maria really

killed for the serum bits in the suitcase? Or

was it that just Howard started to ask too many

questions and they thought without Howard in

a way Tony might be more malleable? But you look

at Howard and you look at Tony and obviously

parental whatever and familial and all that but

like Howard went beyond but Tony is a whole Tony

is a whole other level. Yeah. This is not a Howard

Stark appreciation love fest or anything. I fully

believe in a heavy dose of sarcasm whenever I

refer to his A -plus parenting. But at the same

point, it's one of those where Okay, so if you've

got shield that's lasted this long and fury was

and Peggy was a part of it and Howard was a part

of it and you know Was and then you've got it

being infiltrated by Hydra But here's the other

thing though, I mean you don't They don't you

know, there's too much stuff that doesn't That

doesn't quite track. Yeah And not all of it can

just be summed up with the, oh, it was just higher

draw and like Fury and Peggy didn't know. And

I'm like, okay, that's a certain point. That

is absolute horse bucky. Yeah, it is. Because

they would have had to have known somehow some

way somebody knew. Yeah. And it's like, and it's

why, you know, I have this, you know, you know,

MCU, Nick Fury is a villain. It's hard for me

to, like, look at those movies and see any other

interpretation other than that, you know, he's

a villain. You know? He's a Skrull, I mean, you

know. Even without the Skrull bit, because we

still don't have confirmation of when the Skrull

bit happened. True, yeah. But... But, you know,

Nick Fury, from everything we've seen of him

on screen, is a villain. And it's kind of hard

to counter that ongoing theory. I mean, you especially

have the other thing with, you know, you've got

like an Iron Man 2. And you know, and this is,

and it's Tony Stark, okay? We know Tony Stark.

We know that he's got this battery in his chest

that is keeping him alive. Yep. So I struggled

to understand why the cops weren't called after

Coulson's threat to tase Tony into the carpet,

because tasing him could disrupt the actor and

therefore... harm or potentially or actually

kill him. And so I don't understand why that

wasn't taken as the series death rate. It actually

was. Well, so you're, you're asking why the cops

weren't called and I'm going to give you the

simplest, stupidest answer ever. It is the marvels.

It's, it's, it's superheroes. Like you don't

Most of the time they're not D this isn't spider

-man Spider -man isn't hanging out with with

Captain Stacy, you know kind of thing This is

Iron Man. This is oh my god He has to figure

it out himself. Like if he gets injured or if

he gets hurt, you know First movie was so good.

Yes, I agree In showing Tony Stark and all this

stuff and then they started and then it's like

he he was really it was really really good And

then like immediately after that movie. They

started the slow process of like kind of trying

to neuter Tony Stark Yeah, it's one of those

where I'm just like, okay, but you know Tony

is also this great businessman and You know,

I don't and see that's the other thing about

Iron Man 2 is Why wasn't Natasha brought up on

charges for her little corporate espionage bit,

especially since she was in legal? That right

there is an entire huge liability that I refuse

to believe that Tony or Pepper would have just

not cared about. Like because everything she

would have touched she would have needed to be

audited and potentially redone and Why was that

allowed to stand why why why was she'll just

allowed to come in and just like stomp all over

everything like there They don't really have

any power other than what? There other than what

people allow you know give them so like they're

the the World Security Council doesn't have any

other real power other than what They're able

to con people into giving them. They don't report

to the Hague. They don't report to the UN. The

idea that you've got this shadowy sort of organization

that has the ability to just drop a nuke on Manhattan.

Well, they didn't technically drop it on Manhattan.

They took it up into the universe. He flew it

up into space through a portal. Yeah, Tony threw

it up into space because somebody decided to

nuke Manhattan in order to potentially get rid

of the alien threat. Which, just, again, I mean,

and that's one of those, it's like they saw how

popular he was in the first movie. and then like

every movie after that they decided to try and

like neuter him or try and shove him into a you

know villain role which is is it's just one of

those where i'm like okay so who is writing this

and and and why did they give you pens like why

did they give you keyboards you obviously have

no idea how to handle these characters Well,

Iron Man 2 was written by Justin Theroux Yeah,

and Yeah But then you've also got like and and

I mean and granted what they did to Tony is not

nearly as bad as what they did to Steve Rogers

true because As much as I love Chris Evans pretty

face And as much as he does fill out that uniform

quite nicely, that's like, you know, none of

that writing that makes sense for the Steve Rogers

that is in the comics at all. It's like. And

again, I think they were trying to make like,

I don't know at the time. So let's just so from.

When did when did Cap come on? It was it was

in First Avenger. So it was in First Avenger.

It was 2011. Yeah. So from 2011 to 2019, let's

say, because that's when Endgame was. Most of

the writers, at least according to Wikipedia,

are Christopher Marcus and Stephen McFeely on

First Avenger. Yep. Winter Soldier was Marcus

and McFeely. Age of Ultron was Joss because Joss

has to write and direct everything, almost he

does. Civil War was again, it's the same two

guys markets and McFeely throughout all of the

cap stuff. Yeah, and and and they don't And I

would be exceedingly surprised if any if either

of them had ever actually picked up an actual

comic Captain America comic because they don't

they they It's almost like they're trying to

match this vague idea of Captain America that

their grandpa told them about without considering

the fact that Steve Rogers was an actual human

being and had a lot more depth than just the

propaganda Captain America that grandpa remembers

from the US War videos or movies or whatever.

And so, yeah, I mean, there's that. I mean, they're

just, it's... Yeah, it's one of those where,

and this actually ties back into the whole Nick

Fury is a villain thing, because they found Steve,

they woke him up, the first thing they tried

to do was trick him, and then they didn't...

Then from everything else you can see in all

of the movies. The one consistent thing you see

is that nobody ever bothered to help Steve acclimate

To the time he was now living in like he he he

believes that the UN is a government Like in

Civil War, he thinks the UN is a government.

Yeah, you know governments have agendas. Yeah,

okay The United Nations is not a government.

Yeah The thing with Tony to like I mean Tony

starts out like you already said and then we

get to Iron Man 2 and it's like Because the the

problem with Iron Man 2 honestly besides the

fact that there are too many stories is that

Hammer is not that in - Hammer is not feng fang

- feng fang foom. Hammer is not the Mandarin.

Hell, Hammer isn't even, uh, Guy Pearce, or the

hell his name, uh, Killian. You know? Yeah. I

mean, Hammer is just this, you know - Hammer

is the fly on the bottom of your shoe. Essentially,

yeah. I mean, it's - I don't - I'm trying to

know because he eventually not enveloped it I'm

trying to think of like a Bruce version of of

who hammer would be and there are no There's

nobody in Gotham that equates to hit like how

lame hammer is Always been lame. Yeah. Well and

what one could sort of make The comparison that

hammer is a lot like Jack Drake except that we

never got to see a whole lot of Jack Drake because

he died pretty quickly. But it's like he's ineffectual.

He's a bottom feeder. And we had the opportunity

to dive into some really interesting stuff once

we introduced Killian and AIM and stuff, and

then we never did anything with that. They just

dropped it like a hot potato. And yeah, because

Iron Man 3, man, like I love Iron Man 3 because

it gets to the point where Tony is now psychological.

I mean, he's always been psychologically affected,

but you really see his psychological breakdown.

Yeah, you actually got to see the PTSD he has

from the Battle of New York and Afghanistan.

And, you know, almost dying from palladium poisoning.

Exactly. And see that that's just it it's one

of those where like again you just. You know

it's like they sacrifice you did that they did

the thing that you should never ever ever do.

If you're writing or creating or doing anything

like that where you're working with like characters

and stuff is they sacrificed characters. To the

plot line they had in their heads yeah. And if

the character didn't work, then they shaved off

bits of that character to make it work. And that

is the worst. That is that is just like the worst

kind of hack job. And it shows. And so you've

got, you know, you've got all these things and,

you know, and it's one of those where. You know,

if you didn't have Steve's best interest in mind.

Then, of course, you're not going to acclimatize

him to what he's living in. Of course, you want

to keep him as dumb as possible. You want to

restrict that flow of information so he only

gets what you have already approved of. Right,

but the problem with that is, as the movie shows,

is that he figured it out. Sort of? Well, okay,

he didn't figure it all out, but at the end of

Avengers, you know... At the end of Avengers,

he's still going off, like, he's still going

off bad information. No, he is, but... And he's

still allowing that to color some of his, you

know, some of his perspectives. Right, but all

I can think of is, you know, he breaks out, we

get the Times Square scene, and then the villain

says, Hey, Cap, you've been asleep for 70 years.

Time to go to work. And then of course they give

him, they give him, you know, like probably footage

of Tony in Congress defending the right to his

own IP and how he's not going to surrender that

over to the United States government. Thank you

very much. I mean, granted, Tony probably didn't

have to be that flamboyant about it. But on the

other hand, that's Tony Stark and he was he was

making a specific point in a very specific way.

Yeah. And, and, you know, and he probably also

gave them that completely worthless Bullshit

psychological evaluation that Natasha supposedly

did while Tony was dying of palladium poisoning

Because that's exactly the time you want to profile

someone Like literally like literally from that

point from them dealing with cap There was going

to be this like, you know, they were literally

setting themselves up to be opposed to one another.

Yeah. And they did it in such a way, like it's

a masterful kind of chess move that if I wasn't

as like, you know, connected to these characters

as I have, as I was, because I've been a Captain

America fan since I was like five. Yeah. I've

been a Captain America fan slightly. slightly

less than I've been a Batman fan, and I've been

a Batman fan my whole life. But yeah, and it's

one of those that everything builds up to the

point where while I get that Vision is worthy

of wielding Mjolnir, from what we see of MCU

Steve, he's not. Yeah, which don't get me wrong.

I did love that scene in Everybody loves the

scene and it was only because it was only because

There was you know, the other scene in Ultron

where it's like, you know, here you go You know

you try you try Oh Steve kind of like You know

And then obviously by it by endgame it's like

oh, hey You go Yeah, and then you've also got

like yeah, and I won't get started on my issues

with age of Ultron because we'd be here for weeks

but Like and then the other thing is like you

you don't Tony has an idea of how much damage

he he does like property damage wise how much

is like And so, yeah, there is the damage control,

and there's the Maria Stark Foundation, and there's

all of that. But you never really see Natasha

care about any collateral damage. You don't see

Steve care about any collateral damage whatsoever,

because there's some points where I honestly

don't know if Steve ever realized, MCU Steve

ever actually realized, how much damage he does

to property. And people in every single one of

his fights and like, you know, I did the other

thing that an architect friend of mine pointed

out was like, I don't think he knows that he's

just been flinging shields into walls without

the knowledge that they could fall down. Yeah,

what watching movies sometimes with people who

have like very specific like Jobs and stuff can

get really, really entertaining. Um, like watching

any kind of superhero or cop movie or cop show

with a paramedic. Oh yeah, absolutely. And, and,

and I want to know, I like, I want somebody out

there to not necessarily make a flow chart for

me, but like seriously between caps, shield throwing

damage. And whatever the hell Batman and Superman

were doing over in the DCEU, because, I mean,

let's face it, Henry Cavill fucked some shit

up. Like he did not give a crap about, you know,

leases or building like, like, I'm just gonna

fly right through your bedroom. See you later.

Yeah. And it's like. And you can tell that, like,

Bruce Wayne in those movies actually does have

an eye towards property damage, but he's always

weighing that against his need. Like, his need

to beat down on someone versus his need to make

sure that building's not gonna fall down around

their ears. That's because I am Batman. Exactly.

But, you know, and it's one of those, yeah, like,

you also get, like, different things, like, you

know... You know, it's like, you know, you have

to snap which is a great idea except the execution

was really shitty Especially when they brought

everyone back Because it's one of those that

sounds really good until you actually start thinking

about it and then you're just like, um Okay,

well, um all those people are gone and so life

has moved on since then and now these people

are back but we don't have the ability to feed

them because production slowed to a crawl and

it's also kind of one of those when you're looking

at like the Falcon and Winter Soldier and going

okay why you know I don't understand really why

the uh This supposed bad guy group is actually

bad guys like this doesn't actually make sense

for what you've been telling us and the problem

is out and Allison and I have gone through Hawkeye

already we need to go through some of the other

ones but it's and the three of us can do whatever

but it's one of those things where with Falcon

and Winter and the problem with the Disney Plus

series is Some get nine episodes, some get six

episodes. And sometimes even though television

is a great medium to do storytelling, you don't

get to tell the whole story. And I think the

thing with the group in the Falcon and Winter

Soldier is six episodes wasn't like, we need

at least a one full episode of what happened.

Yeah. During the blip for the people that weren't

blipped. Yeah, it's like we need to find out

what's going on on earth during like this one

I know I don't dislike black widow, but I've

I've I've watched the movie. It's okay black

Good black widow would have been an amazing Visceral

punch in the gut had it been Shown before infinity

war. Oh, absolutely It's completely out of, yeah.

Hell, hell, even if it had been shown between

Infinity War and Endgame, that movie would have

hit it on an entirely different level. The fact

that it came out after Endgame and is theoretically

chronologically before Endgame and Infinity Wars

just kind of strips it of most of its emotional

impact. Yeah, this is why, this is why I will

never, eventually somebody is going to help me

cover the entire MCU. I don't know who that's

going to be. It might be you guys. It might be

somebody else. I don't know, but whenever I get

to going back and doing this whole universe,

it's going to be in chronological. It's not going

to be in film release order because that's just

stupid specifically to what you're talking about

with black widow. Like that should have happened.

Between homecoming and no between Ragnarok and

panther or between panther and infinity infinity

war endgame It's kind of okay. Yes, you kind

of do have Ant -Man and the Wasp and Captain

Marvel in between the two But really seriously

if you're just watching for the Avengers movies

How can you put anything between those two films

because they are such bookends? Yeah Well, and

the thing is, is just, you know, and it's one

of those where it's just like, that movie, the

movie was great. I enjoyed the movie. I just,

there were points in that movie where I'm sitting

here going, okay, but this would have hurt a

lot more, or this would have had a greater like

emotional impact on Natasha's character had we

seen it before Endgame. Yeah. And the fact that

we didn't get it before Endgame. It's totally

an old white Hollywood dude problem. Yeah And

then the other things like there's other like

little things like I mean Thank God for fandom

because there's so much fanfic out there that

actually like takes the MCU and makes it make

sense You know God God bless fandom You you get

these things like you know, I mean there's just

like like little stuff like if you know that

the engines of a specific thing are built off

of a specific person's design and that said person

is also probably on the must -kill list why would

you not call that person and say hey how do I

disable this without oh I don't know dropping

everything into the Potomac Yeah, that's very

true. Like, and there's like, there's some stuff

where I'm just like, of course granted, as a

DC Metro half native. I was definitely watching

that movie through a different lens than I think

probably most people who haven't really lived

in the DC Metro area were. Right. mostly because

I was sitting here going, okay, so you just like,

I'm like, okay, so that's like, like, where's

Rosslyn? Like, you guys just like, you know,

there's, there's not an island. You can just

like obliterated this entire part of the city.

Or, you know, the idea of, you know, with the

whole car scene and I'm just like you guys don't

understand exactly how badly you have just effed

up traffic for the next 2 .5 years oh yeah and

how literally the entirety of everyone who has

to deal with that kind of crap is going to murder

you with their bare hands if they ever see you

because I mean, like, DC traffic is already ridiculously

bad. And I was just like, wow, this, like, effectively

takes out a good chunk of some of those major

roads. And, like, yeah. But then you also have

the, oh yeah, we're gonna drop these helicarriers

into the Potomac, because that's not gonna screw

up the water table or anything. Oh, and also

on any tourists who happen to be hit by flying

debris, because you know that DC is a great tourist

spot, and from what they were showing, some of

these were close to some of the monuments. you

know, that people tour around. So all is I can

think of as you're saying this is about the,

the collateral debt. Like if people get hit by,

you know, crumbling buildings or whatever, I

see every single suit that Tony owns just going

out. Here you go. Here's a compensation check

from Tony Stark. Here's a compensation check.

And see, here's the other thing. Why is Tony

bankrolling the Avengers? Well, it's Tony. He

wants the control. It's kind of like me. But

see, here's the thing, though. If you've got

a group like the Avengers, right? You can't have

them bankrolled by one person. Like, having Tony

supplement some stuff? like through a grant or

things that but still have it go through like

the government. Yeah, would be would be one thing,

them just living off like credit cards assigned

to his account makes them essentially like his

own personal vigilante army. And that's just

not And is that what they kind of set up? I mean,

that is what it is, because that's the thing.

If the Avengers are bankrolled by the government

in the films, then they have to answer to the

government. They have to answer to... They should

be answering to the government anyways. They

should be held to the same standards that cops

and first responders are, and the military is.

I agree. I completely agree with that. I'm just

saying the way it's portrayed... In civil war

with the accords and everything else like that.

That's what I'm saying. Like in the context of

the film universe, the reason why Tony is the

guy is because what kind of money, what kind

of money does, I'm sure Bruce Banner as a research

scientist makes good money, but as soon as he

gets angry and goes green, then all of his money

is going to go into property damage. You know

NC NC that's the thing, you know, and that's

why again you have the Maria Stark foundation

You've got the Department of Damage control,

but the Avengers themselves Yeah, especially

like especially once Wanda joins the team and

Yeah, I don't understand why we let a war criminal

just join the team just like that Because she's

a war criminal And now, don't get me wrong, I

liked WandaVision. I had to pretend to... I enjoyed

WandaVision because I literally pretended it

had nothing to do with the MCU and just kind

of took it in its own little capsule by itself.

Yeah, again, I need to go back and rewatch it,

but from when I did watch it, I was like, oh,

this is in the MCU, but it's in that weird kind

of... Well, she washy type of stuff where it's

like it's not like you don't need to have Tony

or or or Bruce or or Well, and I mean it may

come in I mean I give them full credit because

we actually got we got to see some great bits

from some You know quote -unquote secondary characters

secondary tertiary characters, but and it was

setting up for some other things, which is great,

but if you're gonna build up someone like that,

especially since one could make the inference

that, yeah, they probably let Wanda play around

with her powers and experiment on people with

them, that's how she got so good at them, And

it's not a big stretch to think that maybe Bucky

was one of those people. Yeah, that. Bucky is

a wild card to me. Bucky? Yeah. It's one of those

that this could have been really, really well

done had they stopped to think about it for longer

than, oh, I don't know, 0 .5 of a second. Because

again, I mean, it all goes down to and... And

it comes back to Fury being a villain and not

doing right by Steve Rogers because Steve Rogers,

I fully believe Steve Rogers looked at Wanda

and thought, oh, somebody else who's been messed

about by an Infinity Stone and thought, well,

if I can get them to accept her, then I can get

them to accept Bucky because it's the same sort

of thing. And there's already precedent there.

And I mean Bucky was brainwashed. He was yeah,

he's the longest -serving POW. Yeah, exactly

but There was so much in there that was unnecessary

Like and Steve Steve just a Steve should have

told him when he first found out um be the fact

that they didn't you know led to that and I I

have a hard time believing that Steve forgot

that if Tony really wanted them dead all Tony

had to do was unleash like the unibeam and they

would have been toast instead of just, you know,

punching one of them. But here's the other thing,

though, with that scene, like within Siberia,

what Steve did with his super strength and with

us as it also leads you into some really serious

questions of exactly how badly was Tony injured?

Like how long was he there by himself before

someone got him out? I did You know he invented

braces for for roadie. Did he also have to invent

new prosthetics for himself? because he's in

a Tin he's essentially in a form of tin can armor

that's been broken up and like in some places

shattered with an non -functional arc reactor

and a suit made out of metal in fucking Siberia.

Like, did, like, and the fact that his sternum

was already fragile, like, I'm honestly, you

know, honestly, you know, is this, you know,

did they have to use the, like, combination of

like extremis and like Helen chose cradle to

even get him back to something resembling functioning

yeah like I don't know Tony is a it's good yeah

I mean I mean right there where where where Steve

is straddling Tony and deliberately aims his

shield at the arc reactor which he already knows

Yep. Controls everything. And he already knows

that that's the thing keeping Tony alive. And

he already knows that that's not just a physical

weak spot, but also a psychological weak spot.

Yeah. At that point, anything, anything good

and righteous about Steve Rogers just died. And

I think the thing with that scene is that Steve

feels that Tony took it. Okay, Tony's always

gonna take things too far. But there are - Not

always! Tony does have limits. Tony has limits.

No, I understand. But I'm saying, like, when

I say too far, I mean, like, you know... Firing

a missile and walking away to save the city.

You know what I mean? Like he's going to make

that one bad decision that helps. That's what

I'm not. I'm not. Yeah. You're absolutely right.

He does have limits, but the way his limits work

are with what he sees. And I think what Steve

saw was that Tony was off his fucking rocker.

And that's what I agree with you though. It she

shouldn't have gone for the arc reactor. Like

you're not supposed to kill your best friend

sort of kind of yeah and and the other thing

is is that you know in that moment in that time

steve knew he was in the wrong steve is 100 the

bad guy in this because steve knew about this

knew how much it meant but he deliberately hit

it and he deliberately was just like You know,

you know, but he's my friend. Yes. So was I?

There is no, you know Tony Tony you can't say

that Tony took it too far because No, I'm not

saying in this but I'm saying like Tony's character

Is what I'm saying? Yes, you are absolutely right.

I'm not saying that in this moment Tony I'm not

saying that I'm saying, I think Steve sees it

as Tony taking it too far, but it's Steve's fault

because as you just said, Steve hid it from him.

Like, look, I get it. You want to help, you know,

your best friend from 70 years ago, et cetera,

et cetera, et cetera. But like you just said,

you know, He you know when when Steve says he

was my best friend and then and cap I'm not kept

Iron Man Charizard is like so was that like they've

always had this Animosity kind of friendship.

It's never been all Sunshine and roses with with

cap and Iron Man. Yeah, and that's something

that was like almost like deliberately done by

fury That was kind of dead especially with the

way that they treated Steve and and how and and

like Bringing him up to speed on stuff. That's

That can be a hundred percent late at Fury's

feet. Oh But you you've also got like You can't

just leave that By itself because like nothing

happens in a vacuum and So you've got Steve making

shitty choices based on incredibly shitty and

biased intel, and while, yeah, there's something

to be said for Fury being responsible for that,

but at the same point, it doesn't absolve Steve

of doing the shitty things, even if it was on

bad intel, because... You know, Steve would have

reacted worse had their positions been switched.

Steve would have reacted much worse. Because

Steve's look at it as what is best for America,

what is best for the country, what is best. Steve

likes to tell himself that. Steve likes to tell

himself that. But no, at the end of the day,

it's about what is right and good for Steve Rogers.

What what will satisfy Steve Rogers and and that's

and in this case with this characterization He's

just going to bring everyone down with him Yeah,

he kind of is and he kind of does I mean really

yeah, I mean You know, and it's it's just one

of those where I was like Okay But yeah, and

so there's so much in there where it's like,

it's just taking the MCU by itself. It's kind

of hard to see, because I know everyone was like,

because I know that the writers and stuff were

like, no, you're supposed to see Cap as the good

guy. And I'm like, really? Because that's not

what I'm, did we watch the movie? Because that's

not what you're showing. And again, they do this,

they did this in the film, like you're saying.

But they also did this with the promotional materials

because they're like team cap, team Ironman,

team cap, team Ironman. Who's side pick a side.

It's again, he hasn't yet. Hopefully he will,

but it's kind of like Hugh showing up as well.

You know, yeah, we're at war. Have you chosen

to say, you know, Whatever it was that Wolverine

said in the original X -Men movie, but it's that

same thing. They intentionally made the story,

and again, I need to go back and read the actual

story that it's adapted from, but they made this

story to the point where they wanted us as audience

members, whether it's general audience members

that knows nothing about this stuff or fans like

us who know some or all of this stuff. They wanted

us to choose a side and then they're gonna show

us which side we chose whether we chose the right

side of the wrong side and yeah, and it's in

this one of those like especially when like you're

looking at like the the original 2006 that one

was really well done in the sense that there's

not really a Good side to have chosen there's

not really a good answer to this because honestly

a lot of it had comes with flaws I mean, and

granted, I mean, granted, I super love the X

-Men in the 2006 Civil War, who pretty much were

like, no, we're not supporting either of you

because we've fought this battle already. We

didn't get any support from you. And mutant registration,

you guys can go, you know, F yourselves. Which

was beautifully done to amazing effect by Emma

Frost. But it highlighted the thing where they're

like, no, you didn't bother helping any of us

out with this when we really could have used

some help. We're not going to step into this

shit show again just for you. We've already gotten

ourselves out of this. We're not getting back

into it for you. So yeah, it's it's you've got

like You know, you've got different things there.

But yeah, it's just one of those where you're

just like I'm just there's a lot in there that

was like, okay, this is This is all done in a

specific way that kind of makes it feel like

alright This was set up for a specific thing

to get a very specific result and anything outside

the specific result is not going to Is not going

to function is not going to work. Yeah This is

not gonna fly. He's he's he's lost his his boosters

on his don his jumbo jets there. Yes Yeah, and

it's crazy because I'm I'm looking at the list

of the films and I'm like How is Wakanda forever

the last film of? 2022 it does not feel like

and I mean I personally stop at endgame okay

no way home is is what it is but you know. With

endgame it's like okay that's the that's the

period that's the exclamation point that's the

end now they're gonna be starting the multiverse

saga will they already have obviously because

phase four is gone all year this year but like.

I'm looking at this list of what's coming and

I'm just like, holy crap. What, what kind of

screw ups are we going to have now? Because Tony's

that's the thing. Like, you know, again, end

game is the end of Tony's story because it's

just her. I have just all the angry Raptor noises

about that. You want to explain your angry raptor

noises about endgame? I I don't think we have

enough time for that in this in this particular

episode I think that will actually have to be

its own episode Well folks, I guess it's been

decided I guess when I go through chronological

watching order I think Bethany is gonna be one

of the travelers with me on the on the back to

the future train Yeah, I mean, you know just

like Civil War would have to be its own separate

podcast Oh, absolutely. Yeah, no. The comic would

be its own podcast and the movies would be their

own. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I would cheerfully

join you for the comics bits. Cheerfully with

the song and my part. Absolutely. No problem.

That's great. Do we have anything else we want

to talk about with your unpopular either comic

or MCU opinions? I think most of that is covered.

We've covered most of what I had on my list.

But let's see. And we've already mentioned in

previous podcasts, you know, how much I despised

the Jason Todd, you know, Call line where it's

like press the press a to kill press B to save

It's funny you mentioned that because since we

discussed that I actually wrote up a whole blog

post about that because I was eight fucking years

old when that all happened and I do not remember

like Eight years old in 1988. I was not trying

to call it a 900 number to killed Jason Todd,

I was calling 900 numbers for other things. So,

but I wrote something earlier this year or last

year or whatever the hell it was, I don't remember,

why I never cared about Jason Todd until now.

And the reason why is because of how Sean Gordon

Murphy handles him in his White Knight universe.

Yep. And I'm scared to ask what your opinion

on that is. I still need to go back and read

most of the White Knight stuff. I haven't. I

know we own like all of it, but I need to go

back and like reread like all of it because I

think I've read the first issue and then kind

of like got distracted. But once I finish it,

I will definitely let you know. Jason Todd has

always been my favorite of the Robins. I dearly

love Tim Drake, but I am also a lot like Tim

Drake in real life. Well, Tim is not my favorite

Robin. Jason's my favorite Robin, just because

Jason is just so very Jason. And I adore him.

But no, I think we covered most of my list, dude.

And I mean, at least the list I wrote up for

this podcast. Cool. Yeah, for me, again, that's

the thing. In the new year in 2023, this podcast

is just going to go. Off the chains because I

have so much stuff I want to read and cover that

I have not like This show is turning 10 years

old in March of 2023 in 10 years I have covered

so we have covered so much on this show with

everybody that I've had on to help me cover stuff

But it doesn't I mean comics is a 90, you know

80 90 year old business There's so much. There's

so many things. So next year is going to be I

don't know. I don't know at 2023, other than

what the 10 year anniversary of the show episode

is going to be, but I've had this plan and this

is more your roommates Avenue than yours. It's

more Alison's up Alison's alley there with I

have been wanting to do a 90 nights of night

wing segment for about two years now. Starting

at the beginning. And going through to current.

I don't think you'll have an issue convincing

her. Well, no, I don't think I'll have an issue

convincing her either. It's just that's a lot

of comics to buy on my end. It's like one of

those things that if I do this, it's going to

have to be pre -recorded. It's going to have

to be pre -planned. It's going to and yeah, no,

but I mean. I honestly don't think most of your

unpopular opinions are that I'm, I agreed with

most of what you said. I mean, it's not just

that we're friends or anything like that, but

it's like, that makes sense. That makes sense.

That doesn't make any sense to me. Why, why,

why do you feel this way? You know, and that's

the greatest thing about conversation is we can

figure it out. I mean, I know people who are

firmly on the Team Cap side for the MCU stuff

and will not hear anything against Team Cap.

And then there's also people who are just like,

but Alan Moore is the greatest. And I'm like,

not really. He's the greatest over, one of the

greatest overrated ones is what he is. And again,

that's coming from somebody that doesn't like,

I mean, I really, I guess I shouldn't say that

because I've only ever heard about the man. I

have never read Watchmen. I've never had, like

I've seen it in passing. I've read the back of

the book, but I've never had an inkling of an

interest to read that story. So I'm not passing

judgment on it at all, but there are just some.

comics creators that in the general sense, they're

way overrated. Yeah. I mean, so, so yeah, I mean,

you know, there's, there's, you know, of course,

and then there are some people who are like,

why would you question the MCU? They did this

for a reason. I'm like, see, the thing is, if

I believed that, I wouldn't have this many questions,

but I don't actually believe that. That is why

I have so many questions. Yeah, so yeah, no,

we pretty much covered everything. At least everything

for this podcast. Very cool, very cool. Well,

this is episode 499, folks, and sadly... At the

point of this recording, Funco has yet to come

out with a lights and sounds Iron Man or whatever,

so I'm just going to say this really quick. Gotham

City needs me. You know, 499 episodes. We're

almost at 500. Episode 500 of the podcast will

be something that I have been waiting on for

14 and a half years. When I started podcasting

in December of 2008, I give all the credits in

the world to my buddy, Steve Megatron, who I

have recorded with, we've recorded so many episodes

together. When I started out though, I, well,

I, I know you both are, you both have seen Good

Morning Vietnam, correct? Yes. Okay. So in that

movie, before Robin Williams comes in. Today,

the winds are going to be heading out of the

Southeast with rain coming in off of that first

radio guy who was like a stick, like literally

just a piece of wood. That's what I thought I

had to be. So I was so raw and just so just,

I could not do a solo show to save my life. This

guy, Michael David Sims, he runs a website earth

-two .net. Uh, so earth dash the number two .net.

And I, before I was podcasting, I listened to

podcasts and his stuff is what I had listened

to. So after 14 and a half years, I am going

to take him through his comic reading origins

for episode 500 of the show, because this is

a guy that just like, he has an insight, like

take Michael Bailey and dial it up to 25. Michael

David Sims has an ex just an encyclopedia. Like

I can describe one story beat and he's like,

oh yeah, that's this comic from this year. Like

he's, he's one of those like deep dive comic

reader people. And I took him through the 25

questions and it was awesome. It was a dream

come true. So that's coming up next on the podcast

that will be out November 30th. I do not know

if I am going to be publishing anything in this

December of 2022. I do know that I will have

episodes 501 to 504 recorded. I also have episode

505 recorded, but that doesn't really still the

first of the year next year. So I'm not sure

what I'm doing past episode 500, but this has

been episode 499. She is Bethany Kessler, she

is the book nerd guru, and holy crap, this was

fun. Well, it's always a pleasure. Absolutely,

absolutely. And she has a somewhat silent partner

in the background that I can hear whispering,

you know, foreshadowing and backshadowing. Of

course, nothing. What volume of comics are you

talking about for this Nightwing thing? That

is something we will talk about off air, but

basically start at the beginning and go to current.

Like the beginning beginning beginning or like

the current run beginning? No, the beginning

beginning, like Superman beginning. Oh good,

at least I have all those volumes. I might be

taking a trip down to Nashville, ladies and gentlemen.

They have graphic novels up through the first

seven, nine volumes. I think so. Yeah, something

like that. We're going to go to a quick ad break

and then we're going to come back to close the

show after this. Then you also have like blub

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Then you also have like blablabla. Alright, we

are back here inside the pull bag. As I mentioned,

this is episode 499. I can't believe this is

my first podcast that got to 500 episodes. That

was not the plan with this show. I don't even

know what the hell. I didn't have a plan with

this show. I just was like, let's do weekly comics

and then let's do trades and let's do this. Let's

do that. And here we are nearly 10 years later,

almost at 500 episodes. Bethany, anything you

want to say before I run through the closing?

Uh, just that it's, it's always a pleasure and

an honor. And yeah, just hit me up if you want

to hear more about my unpopular controversial

MCU issues. They weren't that controversial,

folks. I thought you were gonna have me dancing

on the ceiling with Lionel Richie and I'm like,

this is nothing. This is like water under the

bridge. Like, you say that now. Oh boy, it's

a follow -up episode, great, folks! Oh god. I'm

creating a new roadmap for myself. Bethany will

be back in other episodes, but Bethany will be

back in episode 599. Because if we didn't, yeah,

that's a whole other math thing. All right. Bethany,

social media, what do you want to give out? At

Book Nerd Guru is my personal Twitter. However,

since Twitter is kind of going down in flames.

You can also find me at the website for my alter

ego www .deegrey .com. Awesome. Awesome. Thank

you for joining us here inside the pullback.

If you'd like to get contact with us, leave feedback

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Visit the website geekcastradio .com where you

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geekcastradio for the network at the pull bag

for the show. I am at TF2 and Mike, and I'm just

going to watch the Titanic fall kind of thing,

I guess. I don't know. I'm too old to learn a

new social network thing. You kids with your

ticking and talking and hipping and hopping pull

up your damn pants you morons Join us next time

when I will get the chance to interview my longtime

podcast Mentor person Michael David Sims for

his origins in comic reading for now I am TFG1

Mike with Bethany As always make your great escape

into comics You've just heard the latest episode

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