The Punisher Logo Redesign and the Character Beyond the Symbol

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Hello and welcome to The Pullback. This is episode

470. That's right, folks. We are 30 episodes

away from 500. And returning to The Pullback

is Ryan the Uneven -Flo Merkley. Hello, sir.

Hello, Amy. Hello. Hello. And tonight, because

Ryan is very... into this character and enjoys

reading this character and doesn't really like

it when people do stupid things with the character,

we are going to be talking about the uneven flow

of the Punisher logo. So why don't you give us

a brief overall history of the original logo

before we talk about the new one? Well, I mean...

It's undergone a lot of changes before we really

get started. It's going to change back probably

at some point. But anyway, in case somebody hasn't

heard yet, the Punisher is getting a new series.

The new series is the first one in quite some

time. The previous series was by Matt Rosenberg.

That's to date the last time. The Punisher appeared

in comics, and that's been a few years now. Anyway.

Wow. Yeah, it's been quite some time. You wanna

know what's crazy? I just interviewed him for

So You Wanna Be a Hawkeye, which was our miniseries.

Who, the Punisher? Rosenberg. Oh, Matt Rosenberg.

Yes! I remember we mentioned that he had written

The Punisher, but we were more focused on Hawkeye

because Hawkeye is the best Christmas television

series ever. In terms of The Punisher, for now,

Rosenberg is the final writer of a Punisher ongoing

series. And we'll see what happens with Jason

Aaron's but anyway, you were asking about the

skull logo So, you know again and just in case

you've been living under a rock the Punisher

is a vigilante established in 1974 first appeared

in the amazing spider -man number 129 I don't

know what you're into, but... Amazing Spider

-Man number 129 mint condition. Worth a thousand

bucks. Comic book. Oh, it's not just a comic

book. This is the first appearance of the Punisher.

This is the Holy Grail of comic books. You call

that comic books? It's so cute. Cute? It's very

rugged and manly. It's just a bit cute. And he

had a skull on his chest back then. And that

is sort of become the iconic logo for the character

And he's had it since 1974. It has undergone

a lot of changes. There's a lot of different

versions, but it's always been Relatively similar

for the most part. I mean certainly it's stuff

like some of the max Versions and others look

a little different. They kind of spray paint

remember when we did a series on or did Greg

Rucka's series, which was drawn by Marco Chichetto,

who had sort of the spray painted logo, almost

sort of a ghost like one. That was a nice one,

by the way. Anyway, it underwent changes during

Secret Empire, adding the Hydra sort of tentacles

to it temporarily. Right. And yeah. And 2018,

it was added to the war machine armor that was

in that Rosenberg series. It's been redone for

the film. The 2004 Punisher with Thomas Jane,

of course, notably had a very different logo.

It's not vengeance. No, it's not vengeance. It's

punishment. You are not a nice person. Then again,

it was like really subdued in Lexi Alexander's

Punisher Warzone. Right. So yeah, the Punisher

is a vigilante he kills criminals and that's

sort of the crux of the character and yeah, he

The reason for the skull has there's been a number

of different depictions and reasons There's you

know, the 2004 Punisher movie that he had the

skull To ward off evil spirits and the shirt

was a gift from his son his son there's different

Comic writers and different interpretations ruckus.

I may as well mention him because he mentioned

that yeah, it Does it here? He wears it to terrify

enemies Ennis wrote that it distracts them they

shoot towards the Kevlar or his chest, which

is the most heavily armored so it's It's always

been there. It's always been kind of similar

but it's But it's changed. It hasn't been exactly

the same and Yeah, now we're coming up on a new

series where it probably has the most sort of

significant change where it's more of a They've

essentially added mandibles, I guess if you want

to call it that to the bottom mm -hmm and a large

sort of Loki horns. Yeah, I was gonna say like

Rodimus Prime ask No bins only it's in the front

not the back Yeah, that that is true and yeah,

so To be blunt about it. I mean, there's a number

of different reasons I think we all know one

of the main reasons that this happened So the

Punisher has been retired for a few years and

there's a handful of reasons for that. And it's

sort of a combination of things. Probably the

biggest is the skull has been basically co -opted

by different groups and the majority are heavy

right groups. And for an example of that, if

anyone wants it, go to Etsy. Go to Redbubble,

go to any sort of crowd or any art source or

place where artists depict things for sale that

is not licensed. And you will find the Punisher

Trump pins, the Blue Lives Matter Punisher logos,

the White supremist Punisher logos, which are

probably some of the more disturbing ones Because

because really the Punisher logo if it really

needed anything it was a swastika on it I mean,

that's a great call so in the the Punisher has

basically been canned since 2020 and January

6th insurrection the skull was seen in a number

of different places. I still recall Uh, this

was sent to me by somebody probably about a year

or so ago, but cops, which got, uh, canned recently

in its last season, one of the last episodes,

there was an episode that aired and almost every

cop on the force in whatever city it was. I can't

remember, but there was one call where six of

them showed up. Every one of them had the Punisher

skull on their uniform, which by the way, completely

disturbing for a number of reasons I'll get into

in a bit. But in any case, the skull insignia

is not Marvel Comics' anymore. And this kind

of started with American Sniper, the film, but

the actual person would have the skull affixed

to his military uniform and The movie picked

up on that and kind of ever since then, it's

kind of been co -opted into military stuff, eventually

into the police, eventually into militias, eventually

into white supremacist groups, QAnon logos, making

a delightful appearance on Fox News. Sean Hannity

tends to wear the Punisher logo. You know why

Disney has kind of moved away from it another

great reason for it and it's gonna be blunt here

The next comic that was solicited or initially

and was going to come out was a Punisher versus

Barracuda series which is going to establish

what was formerly a Punisher max character barracuda

in the Marvel 616 universe, okay Well, in the

book, Arakuda, who is black, at one point apparently

teams up with white supremacist groups to counter

the Punisher. Having characters team up with

white supremacists, not a great call. No, that's

bad writing. Yeah, that's probably not what you

want to be doing in 2021. No. So that was, yeah,

that got shelved. and unsurprisingly so and then

since then there's just been nothing and this

is in the wake of Netflix also cancelled the

Punisher series now that has nothing to do with

any of this yeah that's just because yeah Netflix

cancelled everything and yeah and they were losing

the rights essentially anyway which have now

reverted back to Marvel blah blah blah yep So

all of this is to say yeah, they needed to kind

of do something You could probably tell I'm not

super bothered by this the characters changed

a bunch of times over the years What I've been

bothered by is the complete loss of anything

that made the character the character so I mentioned

a run -through of Greg Rucka's series and Really

the last 20 years of Punisher comics starting

with Garth Ennis's Seminole amazing welcome back

Frank Series have probably been the best 20 years

for the character. I have a real hard time Coming

up with any era. That's even close We had Garth

this is run that brought him back by the way,

this is post Punisher killing himself and becoming

an angel And with a magic trench coat, by the

way, that would enable him to pull out heavenly

weapons. Oh my God. To clean up God's mistakes

on Earth. Oh my God. So for the people that complain

that, you know, this is a step too far for the

Punisher, or what are they doing to the character,

you're an idiot. You'd know nothing like they

have trashed, you know, the Punisher got whacked

out on LSD and became a King mafia kingpin at

one point like they've kind of done everything

with him at one point or another No, this is

nowhere close to the most ludicrous or weird

stuff Anywho, so we had Ennis's run then we had

the Marvel Knight series from Ennis which lasted

a significant amount of time Then we had Punisher

max also from Ennis, which was fantastic. Did

we cover that? I could have sworn we didn't.

Some of that. And then it was followed up on

Jason Aaron took over Punisher Max. And it was

fantastic. More on that in a bit because we mentioned

the new Punisher series. Well, it's being written

by Jason Aaron. Yeah. And we did cover Greg Rucka's

excellent series. After that there was Edmondson

which you won't really talk about for a whole

variety of reasons I also deliberately skipped

I deliberately skipped map fractions run. I did

enjoy Franken castle simply because that's another

one that I liked despite being ludicrously weird

That was part of the Dark Reign sort of era of

Marvel comics. But anyway, yeah, he's gone through

a lot and there've been a lot of good series.

Becky Clunen was solid. I enjoyed Matt Rosenberg's

stuff. And then we've had a lot of sort of fun

mini series in between then to Jerry Dugan's

Punisher Kill Crew, et cetera, et cetera. So

all this is to say that there have been some

really good Punisher comics in the last 20 years.

I can't get upset with anything that happens

to the character. There was so much garbage produced

during the 90s and stuff that they really didn't

know what to do with him. It's going to be hard

to rival that in terms of poor quality. And then

you're talking about a time where one of the

best writers of all of that stuff I just mentioned

is returning to do it. Aaron really gets the

character. I'm going to read one of the quotes.

When this was announced and Aaron says so many

different groups have tried to Appropriate the

Punisher symbol and write their own story of

what that symbol means to match whatever their

agenda But they don't get to define the story

of this character and it's the character of Frank

Castle that I'm interested in His story has always

been a dark and twisted tragedy about a man consumed

by war for better or worse No matter what sort

of shirt he wears and that's exactly the kind

of story we're telling here And that's the other

point I consistently want to make if all the

Punisher is is just the logo then who cares just

cancel it because It's pointless. You know if

there's nothing else To him that appeals to you

Then why bother caring about it? There's no point.

It's Always been sort of a character drama in

the last 20 years And this is what I was trying

to Finally get at now the last 20 years have

been so the best for the character and the character

developments and getting into his psyche and

He's become the antithesis of everything that

these groups are trying to use them for So Punisher

max in particular. He was depicted as a completely

broken human being And he was forged in war,

and he's just consistently looking for war no

matter what. He's not a good person. He doesn't

do any of the stuff he does to prevent innocence

from being harmed or anything else. It's just

about fixing the world for him. And unfortunately,

his version of that is he needs a war that he

knows he cannot win. He's a broken, broken man

and he knows it and that self awareness is why

I'm interested in the character and why I like

him. It's one of the things that. When you talk

about Batman and I. I hesitate to bring him up,

but I mean, honestly, the two characters are

kind of similar. I mean, yeah, you can't really

talk about it when you talk about Batman. What

are the questions that Paul Dini and Christopher

Nolan liked asking? Is what came first was a

batman or all the crazy gotham criminals. Does

he cause the problem or. You know is he trying

to solve the problem. And the punishers sort

of similar the difference between the two characters

is i think batman legitimately believes he can

stop things. And Frank Castle to me is the more

interesting version just because deep down he

knows every single day he goes out there and

does what he does is useless. He cannot affect

change and he knows it. He just is compelled

to do it. And there's something about that nihilism

that I've always found kind of interesting. And

the last 20 years have delved into that big time.

And Ennis and Aaron were the first, but since

then, you know, there's a self -awareness in

the series we reviewed with Greg Rucka, where

the Punisher tells Rachel Cole Alves, who is

becoming him, that no one should be like him

and no one can be like him. And he knows, you

know, he's too far gone and that there's nothing

else for him. He gives up his freedom to let

her go. so there's always been an awareness to

him and Yeah, these groups don't have it you

know using a guy who is the answer to the question

of what happens to the weapons after a war is

over and In his case, it's not pretty Right.

His life is horrible. I mean everybody has said

this from NSN interviews recently Nobody wants

to be the Punisher no and Then you get into the

really disturbing stuff, which is the police

using it. The Punisher is all about the absolute

failure of law and order He doesn't stand for

law and order. He goes out and murders people.

Yeah, that's not That's not legal It is the equivalent

of if you were to walk into a psychiatrist office

and Your psychiatrist has green hair and he's

got a picture of the poster of the Joker on the

wall And he paints his and he paints his face

to look like the Joker you'd turn around and

walk out because he did assume he's a moron You'd

run that is the equivalent of seeing a police

officer with the Punisher's skull Or to make

it even easier for people if you go to the Green

Bay Packers game and Eric Rogers If you go to

a Packers game and Aaron Rodgers is wearing the

Bears uniform, you'd go, I think there's something

wrong with him today. This doesn't make sense.

And I don't want to put it this way, but I'm

going to. It's like somebody needs to give whomever

that person is a Snickers because they ain't

being themselves. Yeah, it's weird. He's all

about the. Failure of law and order. I mean that's

sort of the character the police didn't make

any arrests The police couldn't protect his family.

They didn't do anything Etc etc, and so he's

got to step in and do their job for them, but

what he does is colossally illegal Yeah, also

I have no idea where this whole Frank Castle

won't hurt or kill cops thing came from but man

He's killed a lot of cops. Yes That's a weird

one. He's not big on law and order. He's also

not big on procedure or anything like that or

gathering evidence. No, he's there to put a bullet

in somebody's head who's done something horrible.

You know, that's his version of vigilante justice.

I mean, you know. And it's funny you mention,

or you try to not mention, the Edmondson run.

We covered the first two issues of that. Yeah,

we don't talk about that because of the writer.

Okay, that's fine. I don't know what has happened

since March 19th of 2014 with that person. So

all I'm saying is we did cover the first two

issues of that run. Yeah, I remember. Yes. Anywho.

So anyway. If ever there was a Q, Frank, this

is it. If you bring Spider -Man in alive, it'd

be a big step toward redeeming yourself in the

eyes of the law. That doesn't matter to me. All

I care about is stopping the slimebags who prey

on innocent lives. Fine. But as your partner

and your friend, I care about you. I don't want

you to end up in jail, or worse. Just do this

one job to patch up your reputation. Yeah, yeah,

yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, I just, you know, I don't

understand these people that are like, oh yeah,

but it's this, and I'm looking at it and I'm

just like, oh, I can't wait to see what Ryan's

gonna say because I know Ryan is gonna put these

people... In there don't care about you know,

we've talked about this so we've podcasted about

a lot of different things over the years and

One of the big ones obviously is transformers

But even comics in general comics gets comics

has changed so many times Transformers has changed

so many times. There's a hundred different versions

of Optimus Prime out there Yep, and I've said

this before on another show if you don't like

the version of Optimus Prime that exists right

now That's fine. You know somebody else may enjoy

it, but it's okay Just wait a year and there's

gonna be another version of him and maybe you'll

like that it changes constantly comics are exactly

like that I've I understand where some of the

rage comes from Because you know, I've been I

was younger at one point believe it or not. Mm

-hmm But I can't be bothered with it anymore.

I don't it A it doesn't erase any of the past

stuff if you enjoy the 80s Punisher fine. It's

still there I don't understand why you'd care

if you haven't read it since then Yeah, why would

you care what he's doing now? 40 years later.

It just seems weird to me or You know if you

enjoy In this version, but you didn't like Aaron's

run or something fine, you know wait, maybe the

next writer will be somebody you do like That's

what happens. It just consistently changes and,

you know, it always goes back to something similar.

X -Men is a great example. You grew up as a big

fan of Fox's animated X -Men series. A whole

ton of people grew up with that. Yep. Well, there's

X -Men 97 coming. And the internet exploded because,

I swear to God, as soon as they announced that,

everybody's like, oh shit, how is Mickey gonna

break this one? And that's the other problem

I have, is that because Disney overall owns Marvel

now, they immediately assume that shit's gonna,

like, Has Disney changed things? I'm sure but

I still would like to Reluctantly believe that

Marvel can still make their own decisions. I

would think so I mean I look at I mentioned X

-Men There's no way Disney had anything to do

with all of the changes to Hickman's X -Men series

In the last few years or I don't think they're

that interested in micromanaging. Yeah also To

be blunt, if Disney cared about the Punisher,

they would have gone after American Sniper or

any of the others, right? Yeah. I mean, the joke,

just to be blunt, is there was... Anyway, there

was the case where Disney sued a family for trying

to put the Spider -Man logo on their child's

grave. I remember that, yeah. That was a whole

big... thing that just yeah and that's awful

disney shouldn't have done that but my point

is like they will aggressively enforce their

trademarks but they obviously were not interested

in this case so again like if they actually cared

about the punisher they probably would have done

something at some point in the past true now

we'll see if that changes based on like the mcu

but You brought up Hawkeye as a Christmas series,

et cetera, et cetera. He's pretty much exactly

the same, or it's very similar to the run we

reviewed for Matt for Action. You know, it's

funny. So, yeah, he is. And it is. It is based

off of Matt's run. Matt was even an executive

producer on the show, I believe. It's going to

be the best Martin Christmas ever. All right?

And it's funny because eight years later I am

once again since episode 26 of The Pool Bag.

I was so scared. What happened to you? Nothing.

I went out the back. Hey. Hey. That was crazy.

An explosion? Some kind of black market auction?

I gotta go. Love you. I love you too. Since when

did everybody start saying I love you to everybody

all the time? That was my mom. Since when did

your heart shrink three sizes? When a little

girl in ninja costume stole my Christmas? Since

eight years ago when we initially reviewed it

and I didn't really like the fraction run Yeah,

you were wrong. That's fine. Yeah, I'm not No,

it's fine. Anyway, not going there. I'm just

saying I don't know what I was thinking eight

years ago and it's because of the fact that they

are, you know, putting the Hawkeye fraction run,

mixing it in with the MCU Jeremy Renner version

of the character that I have actually gone back

and I am currently on page 209. the omnibus because

I went a few months ago before Karen passed away

I Went and I just spent the 20 whatever it was

on Comixology because I didn't want to have to

read four separate volumes I just wanted to be

able to run through the whole thing at once throughout,

you know, whatever and I'm currently on the love

crimes issue It's at the, you know, it's at the

point where he's with the redhead. Yep. So I

am really digging Fraction's Hawkeye, the initial

run that he and David Asha did. It only took

me eight years and a TV show and some movies,

but I'm actually really enjoying it and I get

it now. Yeah. And that's the other thing too,

is frankly, normal people change. True and they

and they grow so using an example I hated recommenders

Punisher stuff Initially, I did not like Franken

castle. I wasn't even big on a lot of the dark

rain stuff And now I really like it. I just kind

of grew into it or other examples probably the

best example for me I hated the downward spiral

the first time I ever heard it and now like a

gigantic nine -inch nails guy actually tools

another one to aided tool I was insane. I was

very wrong in my younger days. Anyhoo, but yeah,

I mean and That's the thing with this you give

it time you think about it if you're rational

It's it just doesn't matter so smallville Great

example of this How many different ways did they

use the s? So initially remember Clark gets put

into I'm you using smallville because I know

you've watched it We both have and I know you

enjoyed it and a lot of people, you know That

was their introduction to Superman honestly because

it came before the whole comics Yeah, and You

know initially he has the s Painted on him in

the cornfield like they teased it so many times

early on in different forms and everything else

I don't feel like it bothered or detracted from

the character that they didn't do that. They

decided the no tights no flights essentially

Yeah It was a very different version of superman

and it probably wasn't what anybody was expecting

when they first tuned in And I think the thing

with Smallville is that it was never a Superman

story. It was never intended to be a overall

Superman story. I believe, I'm probably getting

this wrong, but the creators, the writers, various

people, Mike Tolan, I believe, is one of them.

Anyway, they had said at the finale in 2011 when

the finale came out, that as long as they could

get the rights to do it and as long as they could

pull it off, the shirt rip at the end was the

plan sort of from day one. But the overall show

was supposed to be about Clark growing up and

going through all these things. Now do I feel

that Smallville One off the rails there a little

bit. Yes. Oh god. Yes, absolutely There's no

doubt don't know denying that's the other Yeah,

and the other reason I wanted to bring it up

too is I don't care what you think of Smallville

or if you just hate the CW stuff or whatever

You cannot tell me that is not the best version

of Lex Luthor and Probably his father as well,

too. That's ever been depicted anywhere And and

believe me, I adore Clancy Brown. I was going

to say the only argument I will give you is Clancy

Brown. Oh, yeah, I love Clancy Brown. Not to

mention, not to mention, by the way, from season

one of The Punisher. But I adore Clancy Brown,

and that is a great version of Lex. But man,

Rosenbaum just took it and ran with it. And then

Lionel slash John Glover, who is just Yeah, so

I mean you can take even if there's a negative

or even if you don't enjoy something there's

stuff You can always take from it and it just

for me An icon is just not something worth getting

upset about it's not The character is the character

is more than that Captain America was a character

when he didn't have the shield. Yeah They still

work and in this includes in the MCU Thor is

more than just the hammer I mean me only are

still destroyed and they're still making Thor

movies. Yeah and again and it's I Think it is

become This generation's way to Jen. Don't get

me wrong eight nine years ago ten years ago eleven

years ago I used to have some of the same things

where I would just go off and not get any knowledge

and just have an opinion. And, you know, even

though I know you're kind of half joking when

you say I'm wrong, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

But no, you're not like stuff. We've been over

this. Yeah. But but also sometimes it takes time,

too. I mean, yeah, like I hated the downward

spiral took a lot more than one watch it took

you more than one watch to get any real enjoyment

from breaking bad it took me yeah it took me

two watches but even but even the stuff even

the stuff you enjoy go back and watch justice

league again oh yeah how much better it is on

rewatches okay okay I'm trapped in a building

full of supervillains. I've lost my powers and

for some reason this creepy hot chick thinks

I'm... Lex Luthor. Aw, that is just wrong. Cripes.

This is life or death, I'd better call for backup.

Ow! Duh! Lex, you alright? I'm fine! No service.

Man! Are we doing this or what? I told him we

want to be alone. We're supposed to be going

over your big plan. We are still pulling the

job, right? Or was the whole thing just a bluff?

Huh? I mean, right, the big plan. I'm all over

the big plan. So let's go do that. What? You

gonna wash your hands? No, because I'm evil.

Where I am now is what I recently said on an

Altered Geek episode that Steve and I did. In

2022, we have everything at our fingertips. We

have every piece of media a la carded for us

on various streaming services, whether it's Netflix,

Hulu, Disney Plus. discovery plus HBO Max insert

plus minus whatever here we have access to everything

and the way I have always viewed things is in

the time that they were made so if I go back

now and I watch the one season of the 2011 Thundercats

reboot I can go back and look at it in the time

that it was made I don't and I see it in the

time that it was made I don't sit here and try

to put it up to like you see all these clickbait

articles online about oh this part of the fun

oh no i have a better i really don't want to

get into this but i got into an argument discussion

with somebody on facebook about how the fact

that primal didn't get out of the damn pod after

megatron magna sealed it and i'm like yeah but

if he did get out of the pod then none of the

season two episode one Events would have happened

the way they happen like things in storytelling

happen for a reason for certain things that sometimes

make sense to us and sometimes don't and looking

at those 30 some 25 years 30 years 40 years ahead

of after they've already been is like you have

to look at it in the time that it was made and

In the time that small of it was made or the

time that whatever was made you know, that's

the way it was. And you either like what you're

watching or you don't. Yeah, but even then, there's

certain things that are kind of timeless. Yeah,

that's why I mentioned, you know, Lex on Smallville.

You know, no disrespect. I like Jesse Eisenberg.

I mean, no disrespect to him. I think he's an

excellent actor. But compare his Lex to any scene

of Rosenberg's Lex. And there's not much. No,

there's no comparison and. Not at all. Even compare,

you know, stuff like some of the moments in something

else we mentioned, the 90s X -Men cartoon have

held up really well. There's some stuff that

didn't. Yeah, there is some stuff that didn't,

but there is a lot of stuff now that like. As

of this recording, I'm still in the middle of

going back and editing the last episode because

my guest in the last episode really doesn't like

Morph as a character and that's fine. He cannot

like Morph as a character in the cartoon, whatever.

I'm not here to get into that debate. I mean,

they kill him in the first episode and he leaves

for a long time. True. I don't know how upset

you can get. It is what it is. but the point

is is as I'm recording this I'm going back and

still editing that and I am pulling out what

I feel are the best morph lines just to joke

with my buddy in that episode because he hates

the character of morph so I'm gonna put all the

morph in that show that I possibly can but it's

one of those things where because I'm doing that

I'm watching like I watched through Night of

the Sentinels part one and two and You see how

they portrayed the mutants and the Friends of

humanity and all of that and everything else

and it's like, oh my god But it shows you the

misunderstanding of mutants Like mutants are

humans too. They're not not you They're they're

not well some most mutants are also human unless

you come from outer space, but anyway Yeah, there

are plenty of things that good of the allegories

and ideas are still useful today the Mutants,

you know, there's a reason Hickman's x -men has

gone over so well Now is because there's still

a feeling of disenfranchisement from a lot of

people who are minorities I mean, that's what

x -men was the story of and the Punisher is a

great example There's a lot of feelings of disenfranchisement

and unhappiness say based on based on pulling

out of and the way it happened and the end of

the Afghan war and there's a lot of sort of anti

-military sentiment or Anger towards the leaders

based on that and this stuff doesn't go away

and part of that is You know one of the things

The expanse is a great example of series I enjoy

book series that just wrapped up and TV shows

wrapping up. Anywho Unfortunately, I love it

but it's built on the fact that we as humans

don't learn anything or just keep repeating the

same mistakes And that's why stuff like, it's

disappointing that X -Men's story is still pertinent

today. It would be great if it wasn't. It would

be awesome if Star Trek didn't have to show everybody

working together. But if there's one thing I

learned from the pandemic, it's that that is

not gonna happen ever. Not in my lifetime. Yeah.

You know... It's just crazy that it, it's all,

I don't know. It just, it just feels like we

are not at all connected with an East, anything

anymore. Like, yes, everyone is entitled to their

own opinion, but, you know, opinions are opinions.

They're not supposed to be factual. I don't know.

I don't know. The Punisher logo, the logo isn't

what matters. Ryan doesn't like the logo. No,

anyway, I'll just repeat it. I mean, I don't

like the logo. I think it almost would have been

better to just not have it at all. Just not have

him with the logo. That's one of the choices.

Or just a complete wholesale change. I don't

think... You know, again, I don't think it matters

that much. If all the Punisher is is a logo and

people can't tell stories or anything with the

character without it, what's the point of the

character? There's no reason to, you know, if

that were true, you could just have a sign. True.

It's the equivalent of, well, I eat at Wendy's.

Why do you eat at Wendy's? Well, I like their

logo. The food sucks, but I love their logo.

So I'll just keep eating food that I think is

shit. Uh, by the way, Wendy's, uh, baconator

is awesome. I probably should have picked somebody

that's terrible. Whatever. Anyway, we'd be here

all day for a Chick -fil -A argument because

you ain't going to get any argument here. Cause

yeah, that logo sucks. And that ownership sucks.

I haven't been there. It's not, uh, around me.

That's good. Anyway. Uh, so yeah. We have, uh,

yeah, I, I don't really like honestly past Rosenberg's

version, which I haven't even read yet outside

of the TV show. I thought the Punisher just went

away. Like they weren't using him anymore. And

I figured it was just because of obviously everything

that has happened kind of thing in the last two

years, three years, whatever. Uh, And it's not

that I haven't missed the character, but I just,

I... For me, The Punisher isn't what, say, Iron

Man is, or Spider -Man, or whatever, where I

would be inclined to keep up with what's going

on with the character. And honestly, half the

time, I don't keep up with... Any of the characters

I just mentioned if something new happens and

I see it great if it doesn't is it's been a long

time since he had a consistent Series that just

ran and did not stop or didn't have renumbering

or anything like that He's never been sort of

an eight year quote -unquote Character and even

then having said all that the x -men disappeared

for a significant amount of time and x -men are

eight year comic Yeah characters So it happens.

My biggest thing has just been kind of missing

the merchandise. There's been a lot of stuff.

So for example, I play a lot of Marvel Champions

Marvel Champions is a living card game and so

I mean it's it's It's a deck -building card game

and the significant significant amount of heroes

have been released for it And no, it may not

be. At least he is unlikely to be for some time.

And stuff like that kind of sucks. You know,

that's something I wish that could have been

avoided with all this. And again, I understand

Marvel's reluctance to use the character because

none of this is good. And we get to watch January

6th. play out in real time. Yes. And people are

going to say things like, well, you know, the

comic character shouldn't pay for the use of

the logo by people. And, you know, these people

don't even read the comics, which dear God, that's

definitely true. But anyway, these people don't

even know the character. So why should he have

to pay for it? None of this stuff happens in

a vacuum, though. No, it doesn't. Everything

is related, unfortunately. And, you know, shit

happens. Yeah, it's a very sad fact of life.

As I said in episode 469, I'll say it again here

in episode 470, I have no idea what's coming

up next inside the pullback. I have not planned

out anything for 2022. Because my life situation

is in constant upheaval. So the show may be on

hiatus. The show may not be on hiatus. I don't

know. I've never actively put the pullback on

hiatus other than when the very few episodes

I was able to get out in 2020 were out. For me,

when a show is on hiatus as if it does not have

an episode within the year of the last episode

being released, so I just have to get life shit

taken care of folks first and see what happens.

There may be a show next week, there may not

be one, but we are still here. There is still

a plan, sort of. I don't know what that plan

is, but we'll figure it out. I guess Ryan could

join me for volume four of IDW's new Transformer,

because... Steve Megatron and I tried to stumble

through those first three volumes of the 2019

universe. Oh, it's not bad. It's I don't know.

It's, uh, it's not bad, but it's not. This is

something to bring out the actual show or anything

like that. But you're talking, but talking about

series that maybe in. Or may end up goes going

into hiatus or something like that. Yeah with

the rumors of the Transformers license changing

hands and It's funny. There's a lot of upheaval

in the comics industry and what's funny is a

lot of people and I like to call them idiots

Like to talk about how comics are dying and everything

else. They're really not revenue is way up and

The break from diamond has helped a number of

companies as well to digital distribution that

sort of thing. Just IDW has pretty much Yeah,

they've pretty much constantly been a company

that's had issues be it everything with Winona

Earp, which was a huge hit and they completely

kind of fumbled that to their board game division,

which also had a huge hit and they completely

fumbled that to their comic division, which has

just been a revolving door of editors. It just

really sucks. It does. It's a company that's

employed a lot of good people. Yeah. Mean, you

know the the pull bag cut its teeth on IDW with

the the Transformers and the turtles universes

that they've created since 2005 and 2011 respectively,

you know and it just Sucks to see them that way

But yeah, I mean who knows we'll see hopefully

turns out hopefully Whatever Jason Aaron's has

cooking up his sleeve for the Punisher later

this year or whenever it's supposed to. So I've

mostly been a fan of Aaron's stuff. I mentioned

that I loved his Punisher run. For me, quite

frankly, once I got past being surprised by it,

the Jane Foster Thor run was fantastic. And not

only that, but some of the stuff he did with

Thor himself, as in like Thor Odinson. Version

was really interesting to me and for me That

was one of the more definitive versions not to

mention The MCU seems to have directly taken

a whole ton of stuff from that run And then of

course the new film is also Yes, also everything

from like the God butcher being in it to Jane

Foster Returning is all taken from it as well,

too. So, I mean they've Picked and chosen a lot

from that. He's had Avengers have been up and

down There's some stuff although to be fair.

I'm also not the biggest Avengers guy stuff I've

liked stuff. I haven't liked so I mean he's not

perfect But his Wolverine run his Punisher run

his Thor run are really good. So I don't have

a lot of fear For the new series I think I don't

know. I think it's gonna be good. We'll see what

they do with it afterwards. That'll be interesting.

Yeah to do absolutely nobody's surprise I immediately

pre -ordered to number one as soon as it came

up in the shipping list from my guys, of course

And who knows maybe that'll be part of the new

plan here at the pole bag How many is it supposed

to be about 12 issues? I don't know issues wasn't

paying. I believe it's six Is it six? Okay. Thirteen.

Thirteen. There you go. None of the above. I

keep forgetting it's prestige format. So, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Baker's dozen. There you go.

Yeah. Alright, folks. I think that's gonna do

it for us. Happy New Year to everybody. Where

can the people find you online, sir? At nightbeat

on Twitter. It's more like less crappy New Year

at this point. Anyway. Okay. Well. No, I'm just

saying like it's It's been a good collection

of years the last couple true, but you know you

have to have It's January damn it. You have to

have the the optimism and then you know, well,

I didn't work out last January Well, no, but

that's what that's one of the reasons that we've

got a new logo to talk about Yeah, no, that's

Anyway, where do people find you? Shit, I don't

know. Homeless on the beach, without internet,

without electricity, there you go. Well, your

optimism went out the window fast. Optimism?

What's that? I'm at TF2 and Mike on Twitter.

You can hear all the other stuff in the outro

Make your great escape into comics and we will

catch you next time here inside the pull bag

for journal entry 1195 .3 Spider -man spotted

at 20 30 hours doesn't matter how many arms he's

got I'm gonna take him You've just heard the

latest episode of The Pullback, the GCRN's first

comic review and discussion podcast. There are

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and you call me the Punisher