IDW TMNT Volume 21: Battle Lines Review

Hey, this is Tom Waltz, I .U .W.'s Teenage Mutant

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on the Geekcast Radio Network. So without any

further ado, it's time to talk about the comics

we are reading right now here inside the pull

bag. Hello and welcome to The Pull Bag. This

is episode 387. That's right, 387 episodes of

this podcast. And I'm, of course, TFJU and Mike.

I am back, folks. We've had two new episodes

since my return, episode 385, where myself, Jeremy

Fine, and Edward and Kendra Hale talked about

the DC Black Label Harleen series. So much better

than Superman year one. Thank God Joining me

as you can hear from his little chuckle is mr.

Joe Reed. Hello, sir Hello, you know when you

introduce your other co -hosts from your other

shows like I hear their their names and they

sound like celebrities They sound like these

awesome people and then you have like me. Oh

stop it. You are awesome You are awesome. Don't,

don't, don't get that first. I wasn't fishing

for that, but I'll take it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stop it. You know better than that. I mean, hell,

I'm making you record Turtles podcasts every

day for the next month and a half. Not every

day. You gotta get caught up somehow. Yeah. And

we need content on this podcast somehow after

not having almost, I think I've recorded, well.

Six episodes 381 to 386 six episodes in a year.

I know we would have been over episode 400 by

now if if anyway But anyway, so yes, we are here

and as as Joe said we have to get caught up somehow

so episode 387 and then 389 through 394 will

all be IDW TMNT Reviews to catch us up to at

least issue 100 of the series Longest running

TMNT comic ever. Yeah Yes, and tonight we're

talking about I'm Naming it in trade. So it's

volume 21, which is battle lines is what the

trade is called This is issues 86 through 89

And this went when I read I have not read this.

When Karen and I moved out here to Washington

State and I had to sadly put my computer in storage

because we couldn't take the equipment on the

plane, I stopped reading comics pretty much because

I just was not going to read them on my phone.

I need my monitor, I need my keyboard, and while

I love Comixology and I love their app on my

phone, Just can't I just can't read them on my

phone So I just I can't see anything and I don't

like finger zooming and and this is why I can't

read even on my computer It's the same thing

Comixology does a good job though. I do when

you've shared your panel view. Yeah That's that's

pretty slick Yeah, their guided view is amazing

But there's there's just no way I would I would

ever read anything on my phone Yeah, so the whole

point in bringing this up is this is the first

time before we recorded this episode obviously

in order to prepare for this This is the first

time since we recorded. I think it was episode

362 is when we did Kingdom of Rats. Yeah, so

Whenever that episode was released, this is the

first time I've read turtles since then So, I'm

going into this completely fresh and not knowing

what the hell's... Like, I've avoided everything

I possibly can. Yes, I've kept up with, like,

solicitations and things like that, but I've

looked at those in passing. And I've... I'm not

really one for spoilers. Like... If something

gets spoiled for me, I'm let... Like, if somebody

mentions, oh, Jason Sudeikis was in The Mandalorian

Season 1. Okay. Sure, fine. Whatever. I don't

know. It doesn't really bother me all that much,

is my point. And I know, and I understand why

it bothers other people, and that's all well

and good, but coming to this fresh and... Like,

I obviously hadn't read it before kind of thing,

so... For the creative on this the story was

done by Kevin Eastman Bobby Kurnow and Tom waltz

the script was done by Tom waltz art was done

by Dave walker on the first three issues and

Michael I'm gonna mispronounce his name so badly

died now. Yes, I was dialing us. There we go

He did the art for issue 89 colors by Rhonda

Pattinson letters and Production by Sean Lee.

Collection edits done by Justin Isinger and Alonzo

Simon. Cover is Dave Wachter. Very cool, very

cool. Yeah, so I've been staying current with

the book. I've stopped reading it while parked

outside my comic store now. But I do bring it

home and read it. When I went back to reread

these to prepare for the for the for this record

It it just felt like going in a time machine

back to the 1950s like this is this feels so

long ago It's really only it's less than 20.

Well, it's about about a little under 20 issues

and it just feels like forever ago Yeah, I mean

if you'd asked me when this stuff happened. I

just said oh, I don't know issue 40 So it's just

it's been there's so much there's so much jam

packed into this universe. Yes So much good content

and it's yeah, it's all so amazing So issue 86

begins with the storming of Bernal Island by

Bishop and his crew And they and again it's been

so long and I did not go back and read issue

85 to kind of catch me up on the ending of that

But I forgot that Bishop had control of slash

Yeah, the the mind control business, yeah, I

completely forgot about that yeah, Bishop wants

the aliens off of earth but he's doing he's made

this kind of Baby, this mutant baby. He doesn't

like the mutants either, but he's using Slash

as a tool to get the aliens off earth and then

I think the idea here is that once Brno Island

and the aliens there the the utroms and the Triceratons

are dealt with That it's the mutants turn. Yeah

Yeah, and I love that so you have Bishop and

all of that going on and then basically Everybody's

scattered. You know, April's doing her thing.

She's trying to reach out to Donnie. Donnie is

with Harold. Mikey's teaching the orphans at...

At... Clan Hamato, the new foot clan headquarters

because... Yep. And then Raph and Alopex and

Angel are out doing the vigilante thing, which

is really cool. Tensions between the Utroms and

the Triceratons are interesting to see what the

differences are between them, plus the similarities,

and then obviously we get into the battle here

in this issue. It's still weird as hell for me

to see Baxter Stockman running for mayor. Yeah,

and I saw his Lyborgs and the Mousers on Burnout

Island. Oh, they're teamed up with the The utrums.

That's right. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah, but it

is so weird, but it is so cool seeing who gets

to interview Baxter. Because I, you know, I did

not notice that it's Irma. Yes, it is. I thought

that was so cool. How do you know how to work

her into the whole channel six news thing? I

thought that was great. It's always a little

interesting when I you I can't believe I didn't

notice that that I feel awful like I should have

totally seen that But it's interesting to know

which characters went where and who has the rights

to them. I wasn't sure if Irma Could have bit

in this universe. I mean, I know Brock bebop

and rocksteady But though they were in the comics,

I guess Irma was too in the Archie comics. So

yeah, all right. All right I gotta figure it

out. I know how they came here now. There you

go. Hey, man, it all works. You're gonna find

a way to get it all in there somehow. And I mean,

honestly, IDW is the turtle kings at this point.

So I don't want to sit here and speculate, but

I highly doubt turtles is going anywhere. I would

hope absolutely not. What really gets me is where

all the turtles are. like between Donnie's stuff

and Leo stuff and Raph stuff and Mikey and Their

personalities that we've known since we started

this run are all there But they've just all changed

slightly and I think that's great that they show

all these different things Raph maybe hasn't

changed so much, but he's he's He wouldn't be

Raph without you know his his rude dude attitude

mm -hmm, and they're the only good thing to come

out of that live action Ninja Turtles movie where

they all look like giant, roided out monsters

was Raph's speech at the end where they think

they're about to die and so he apologizes for

pushing everybody away and for writing everybody

so hard, but it's because he loves them and I

push him away because I didn't think I could

be as good as you guys and I think that's Raph

explained better than anybody's ever explained.

We is and he has that anger why he hates himself

and pushes everybody away And and and it's interesting,

you know You work for I'm coming back to this

time period in this run and right with splinter

killing shredder The turtles kind of start to

The ties have been severed from that Splendor

didn't just cut the head off of shredder. The

family started to get torn apart, right? Leo's

there looking at all of the things that are different

and Like you broke one of our rules dad and Mikey

doesn't like that either Donnie's Retreating

into his work so he doesn't have to deal with

Leading the bad guys now or being the bad guys

being the foot clan and I don't think raff likes

that either But it's pushing the turtles apart.

There's a divide here. Yeah And Mikey's doing

his love the orphans, the children that got adopted

from the foot plan, and that's his priority.

Everybody's got their priority, and they're turned

outward by that. Hopefully it's the same page

as what you have, and it probably isn't because

I'm using the trade, you're probably using the

single issues. Basically page 21 where it says,

so you want to jump into the middle of another

war, huh? You four sure like sticking your snouts

where they got no business being stuck, don't

you? And now you want our help doing it and refs

like Not all four of us don't And we continue

this and Leo's like we just thought you just

thought we'd take one this one little more personal

than Than normal. Well, it's your lucky day because

you're right. This is personal So you turtles

just point us in the right direction and the

mutanimals will bring the firepower What I love

is The two panels at the top of this page with

the four turtles Leo is super serious. Donnie

is kind of super serious. Mikey looks like he's

about to cry and Raph looks like he's gonna punch

something. The next panel where Leo says, we

just thought, he's still super serious, Donnie's

still kinda super serious, Mikey looks like he's

already been wiping his tears, and Raph again.

I love this little, just these little things

in the facial tics of these turtles, that you

can see how much that they've... been going through,

and then we get the big splash page of the Mutanimals,

and I'm like, yeah! As I read this and saw the

Mutanimals, and I think in this book they fight

for something different than they did when I

read about the Mutanimals in the Archie books

in the early 90s, but I still, I read this and

thought, man, how I would love to see these characters

go on the environmentalism kick, like the Archies

did. I don't know if you could... Take that as

seriously as you could now. I bet you could with

old hob. It's like, yeah, we're not going to

go clean the oceans up. We're going to go murder

the CEO of that company dumping chemicals like

that. I think is where these guys would go. These

new animals. I don't think Nickelodeon would

let them do that, though. No, probably not. I

don't know, man, since Nick to go since Nick

has had the turtles license. We've gotten a lot

of stuff in the IDW series. They were going to

kill Donatello. They brought him back, but they

did try to kill him. There are a couple of murders

in this arc we're reading right now. I really

think that Bobby has a lot to do with that. Tom

comes... to the table, Tom and Kevin come to

the table with like, this is what we want to

do and where we want to go and we want this to

happen. And then I imagine that it has to be

Bobby's thing to go to Nickelodeon and say, this

is what we want to do. And this is why we want

to do it and why we have to do it. And this is

how it'll look. And then Nickelodeon has to weigh

that and say like, well, OK, can you do it in

a silhouette from the shadows and not actually

show it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the shadowing that

will come up later is amazing. So we get back

to the Utroms and the Triceratons and the battle,

and they're trying to figure out, like, how can

we, you know, beat these government guys, these

EPF or EFP or whatever they're called. And they're

gonna release an Utrom from stasis, and they

think it's one Utrom, but it's actually another.

And it turns out to be... Terrell. Oh boy. Again,

this is why IDW is awesome because they have

tied in every single major Turtles universe.

They brought it all together and they give us

the best parts of it. And having Terrell from

the 2003 series. What a wonderful thing. Somebody

told me that the 2003 series is streaming somewhere,

and I couldn't find it on any of my services.

But I was going to watch that, because I want

to see... I don't know the character that well.

That 2003 series hit me in college, and so I

was too busy arguing about art theory to watch

cartoons at the time. Yeah, the 2003 series is

awesome. I'll have to see if I can find that

or something. Yeah, I don't know why it wouldn't

be on any of the streamings. Anyway, it's a whole

big thing. So that's how issue 86 ends with the

reveal of Shrel and then we get a picture of

Bishop in his EPF uniform. On into 87 basically

picks up where 86 left off. And we have the Utroms

and the Triceratons arguing over battles and

how they're gonna, you know, they mention, uh,

and we knew that you would not agree, Krang Loyalist,

that you are, so the decision was made to hold

you in stasis. We could not risk allowing you

to continue Krang's genocide. So they talk about

Shrel and how he wanted to continue Krang's genocide

and all of that. And apparently now's the time

for killing. This was an interesting thing for

me because Krang was a genocidal maniac, horrible,

dictatorial, and then Shrel comes out and just

by how everybody's reacting around him he seems

like way more feared than Krang was but I can't

tell if Shrel was under Krang. or if he's over

Krang. I know that at least based on what's happening

here and what happened in 2003, that he's way

more dangerous than Krang. Yeah, I think, well,

the way that they phrased it was that he was

a Krang loyalist, so I assume he was a Krang

supporter, so I assume that he was not above

Krang at the time, because it was General Krang

and maybe Commander Shrel or something, but you're

right, now that Shrel is out and I don't even,

did they kill, I don't even remember. Yeah, Leatherhead

ate him. That's right. It's been so long. I don't

think he's coming back. Oh shoot, nevermind.

What? I remember now. Oh, okay. I think I saw

a solicit. Oh, okay. So we get to Donnie and

April, he's contacting them, or contacting her.

Basically this issue is kind of like the turtles

and the mutanimals and everybody kind of getting

their own battle plan together and figuring out

what they're going to do. And there's one panel

and good. There's a lot of discordance with these

guys coming together then, you know Raph doesn't

like the mutanimals Mikey doesn't like working

with the mutanimals and we channels don't trust

the turtles the turtles aren't really jiving

with each other either they they're arguing about

whether or not they should even get involved

in this battle. Yeah, and that that That's just

not a good way to go into battle. They're weakened

by Being so out of harmony with everybody out

of sync. Yeah And, but the, the one thing I did,

and I, I, I don't know if this will ever happen,

but, so we get to a panel where Donnie kinda

scolds Mikey about, you know, touching the gear,

and Mikey says, man, scientists totally hate

sharing the cool stuff, and Mondo's like, tell

me about it, dude, Lindsay completely freaks

if any of us go anywhere near her Dr. Frankenstein

lab. Want a Mikey and Mondo one -shot or miniseries

because I think Mikey and Mondo would be an awesome

team up thing Mm -hmm that would be so cool And

there's a couple of little one shots like that

that I'd like to see you know like my mutanimals

environmentalism thing I think Mikey and and

Mondo should should get a little series where

they do something yeah So we finally do agree

on a plan we go back to sort of we go back to

the EPF versus the mutanimals and not mutanimals

utroms and and and Tarseratons and we basically

get a plan of how the turtles are gonna drop

themselves and the mutanimals into the battle

sort of and That goes as well as can be expected.

Oh boy again there's one thing in here as they're

dropped into the battlefield I love and I'm sure

this was again something Bobby or Tom or Kevin

said something to Rhonda about this when they

drop them into the battlefield one of the soldiers

is you know agreeing to agent bishops orders

and he says kilo echo this is Bravo Charlie priority

mission is breach Say again, priority mission

is and then purple crack. What the orange clonk

red wood and WAP is is blue. I'm like, they color

coded each of the attacks. That's awesome. I

love that. It's so cool. I love it. So fun. And

you know Rhonda's colors with Dave's are Dave

Walker's art I mean the turtles look great in

so after those those color -coded attacks you

have a full kind of panel where Where Leo says

okay command and controls down bishops next all

four of them are standing there and they all

look so good it's you know the natural look and

they all have obviously they're wearing the masks

and the i guess oxygen or whatever is in the

in the tanks so they can breathe and things um

but it just looks so freaking cool and then we

get the mutanimals assault on bishop and then

slash comes in and slash is like uh i'm gonna

destroy you guys Meanwhile, it's like Mondo's

like, eh, I'm going to try to steal these goggles.

Yeah, I think the plan that they had originally

had was to distract Bishop or slash or distract

Bishop through slash and then the turtles would

get in and take Bishop out really lickety split,

get the goggles off them. And I think they're

doing that because they don't. the turtles still

don't want to kill. They don't want to kill Bishop.

They want to subdue him, get the glasses off,

slashes back to normal. But we do kind of see

the mutanimals just out of vengeance for what

they've done, what the EPF has done to Slash,

are like, no, no, we're just going to go handle

Bishop ourselves. And Mondo Gecko is there trying

to get the goggles off his head. Gets a blow

in, but tides turn. Things don't go quite as

planned. Yeah, and then we start learning about

ancient bishop, which is awesome. I was not expecting

this at all It came out of left field. This is

another one of those things that I thought we

knew that a while ago, but now we get to see

Why he is and this is another reason that I want

to watch 20 at 2003. Yeah, I think that's where

more Bishop. Yep was a thing. Yep Yeah, so we

knew that the utrahms were on earth way before

like, you know kind of like Independence Day

kind of thing and kind of like Armageddon where

oh, yeah, we had The alien technology or we had

the alien ship back in the 50s or whatever so

this kind of what this is except this is with

the uterine the uterine technology and Wow What

a origin for for Bishop that's The emotion with

his parents. Oh my god. Just so powerful so interesting

just so friggin cool and to just See eventually

as we go through this because this this thing

You know kind of ends and it goes back to the

battle the current battle make all necessary

preparations for our own arrival and we get back

to the battle that's going on and man Slash is

just kicking their ass. He is an absolute tank.

And I don't, you know, Slash was always, when

he wasn't raged out, he was always so restrained.

He was controlled. He didn't want to be the violent

guy. Right. But he had a little bit of that kind

of like leatherhead thing where he just glazes

over and gets violent. But, but this is, he's

completely out of control. And Hulk and, uh,

Bruce Banner in Age of Ultron, he just doesn't,

the Hulk is, that roided out monster is not what

he wants to be. Yeah. Not at all. As we go through

this battle, we get to the point where Raph just

throws his sigh and I'm looking at this panel

and I'm like, oh my god, that is some of the

best Raph art I have ever seen. And obviously

it hits Bishop in the left shoulder. He pulls

it out, but he's like, you know things aren't

what they seem and blah blah blah and and all

this and we get more explosions and Shurell shows

up and the utroms have more firepower and That's

kind of how this one ends is is on the utroms

arriving to the battle man I'm so glad I wait.

I could not do what you do. You getting the single

issues even though you're not reading them in

the car anymore after you get out of the comic

shop. I need to read. I need this whole story

now. I can't. I could. I'd be so impatient waiting

issue to issue. My wife says the same thing.

She's a book reader and I hand her a stack of

comic books and it gets to issue 11 of 12 and

I don't have 12 yet. It's like, how do you do

this? This isn't even fun. It's like the old

television shows were back in the day. You get

to the end and it ends on the cliffhanger and

you don't get to find out what happens for a

whole week. Only it's a month in comic books.

But you know what? Right underneath my turtles

is my Daredevil comic. And right underneath that

is something else I'm reading. And so I get to

kind of dance around that. Every week there's

another cliffhanger reset that I get to, like,

ah, yes, now I get to find out what happens to

this person. Yep. I swear I saw something. within

the last six months or so where all of your requests

for Turtles, Daredevil, I could have sworn I

saw something somewhere where Turtles and Daredevil

were going to happen. There was the children's

line of comics that Marvel has been releasing.

IDW makes those for Marvel, and they put them

through Spider -Man and Daredevils there in that

universe. I think it was coming to that, and

that opens the door, and I don't know if it's

happening yet. If it were happening though, there's

no way that Kevin Eastman could keep his mouth

shut about it. If there was a crossover between

Daredevil or Commandy, we'd know about it. Because

like, Alex, oh my god, this is what I wanted

forever. We get to issue 88, and I love Dave

Wachter's main cover on this with Slash. That

cover is wonderful. Poor Slash, man. He just

looks... Oh. Wow. Just so... wow. Well, you know,

that's the cool thing about this cover, and maybe

we should talk about it at the end, but I'm gonna

talk about it now anyway. If you don't know what's

going on in the story, this is Slash's, if you

haven't seen the cover, dear listener, he's ankle

deep in what is illustrated to be blood, and

his hands have dipped into this lake of blood,

and he's pulled them out, and it's dripping,

and he seems to be shouting in anger. um and

but if you if you know what's happening in this

story that face could read as fury or as uh ang

what's the word um regret uh regret yeah over

what has happened and his hands are the blood

is on his own hands and he knows and he has he

doesn't want that yeah uh agony That's the word

I was looking for and that's I think where that

cover is just ringing Absolutely brilliant with

the reflection and with the face and with what

we know happens. Yeah Absolutely, really cool

Very very cool. So we start this one again on

Bernal Island with the battle With Shrel showing

up. Yeah, Donnie says Krang part 2 and he's got

Trag and Granator with him At least he's shooting

at the EPF dudes, Mikey says. Yeah, that got

me confused for a bit. Like, wait, Shrel's the

bad guy. What's he doing over here? But the utroms

are the good guys. And the Triceratons, while

they were some bad guys a couple of issues ago,

they're on the utrom side now. And of course,

so then Shrel would be here. But it's not going

to be long before he decides to figure out what

his own game is. Yeah. And it's so funny earlier

when they were arguing about their plan and how

come Sally isn't here and blah blah blah and

Old Hob was like, Sally has her own job and we

find out what Sally's job is and Sally comes

in in this giant -ass plane with Chewy Pete.

Ah, that's so good. God, Pigeon Pete. Oh boy.

He's so crazy. So yeah, Sally is the air support

and We have Bishop and the in the EPF trying

to finish them off and It's just more battle

battle battle here But the scenes are so good,

I mean there's one point where Bishop just jumps

on top of Herman and grabs his gun and Wow just

yikes that's a yeah that's a great page yep and

uh the page after that i flipped oh yeah because

they all agreed uh you know to play by the turtles

rules and Bishop's on Herman, and Hob's like,

I'm done playing by your rules. He, he killed

him. Uh, and then Slash wakes up. What? Where?

Where am I? And, uh, yeah. Slash runs away, the

mutanimals run after him, and Bishop has no head,

but he's a robot. What's going on? He rips off

his shirt and it's this giant baby inside of

him or fully grown human or whatever. I really

ought to put this as my next cover photo on Facebook.

The four turtles, Leo on the left, Donnie on

the second left, Mikey in the middle, Raph on

the right. How in the hell? and we get more of

Bishop's story, we find out that he was born

with some sort of growth deformity or something.

Think of that Robin Williams movie Jack kind

of thing, except in reverse, where Bishop only

grows to a certain size, but his brain continues

to mature as he doesn't age anymore. It's really,

really, really good. Really interesting and I

was worried about because I don't really like

you I haven't seen the two though I've seen bits

and pieces of 2003 series. I have seen it all

in the past but not recently I Don't remember

how they handled Bishop in that yeah, I don't

know series at all. So You know so seeing an

origin for him here for this, you know for this

comic series I think they did a really cool,

interesting thing with him here. That'll be neat

to see when I do find out where that is streaming,

how they handled it there and how many liberties

they took. I suspect it's one of those things

where maybe there were seeds given and then IDW

did their own amazing thing where they took it

a mile further than you could have imagined just

to give us something brilliant. Yeah, absolutely.

because seriously the whole bishop backstory

thing is brilliant and again it just goes back

into the whole thing that the crank technology

has been there all along and how can the humans

use the alien technology to their advantage and

this is how they did it and wow although i do

find it a little creepy that uh bishop Baby bishop

or whatever we're gonna call him now his inner

pod basically shoots out of his body That's that

image is a little creepy where he goes But if

you think for one second that you see a monster

you're mistaken and his body just rocket is his

little pod thing Rockets. Oh Creepy Yeah, I wouldn't

I wonder what they're gonna do with Bishop he's

coming back someday someday yep so we get to

slash and uh i forget was it the mutanimals that

did this to him or was it bishop so we get this

plan of them you know trying to figure out what's

going on with slash and how he doesn't feel so

well and You know, oh, it was, it was Bishop.

Yeah. So Bishop messed with was slash and basically,

hopefully people have read this already because

we are in a spoilerific podcast on this network.

Um, he puts the nuclear option inside slash.

And as soon as I read that, I'm like, Oh no.

You monsters! Yeah. Oh no. And it's just so sad.

Yeah, Slash does not want to be the killer. And

not only is he fortified at how he's been used

by the EPF, but knowing what's probably about

to happen here, he wants no more of it. Yeah,

and the and again I Say this with all the love

in my heart in the world god damn you Kevin Eastman

and Tom Waltz because every time we have a Michelangelo

emotional scene I break down and it's just Crazy

so slash is like you were right all along old

hob about the humans. They have to be stopped

And Mikey comes up to him. Here big guy, I brought

this for you just in case we got you back. Kinda

mushy now though, sorry. Candy? Yeah, for a hero.

And I'm like, you... You turtle creators are

just... So Slash takes off with Sally. So Sally

basically flies him out to a point where... You

know, he's not going to hurt anybody and it's

in the middle of the ocean somewhere or whatever.

Thank you, Sally. Goodbye. Godspeed, my friend.

And this great nighttime shot. It almost looks

like slashes in space. I know they didn't. I

don't think they went to space though. No, that's

just a shot up in the ground. Yeah, but like...

where the clouds are kind of like purple and

you see all the stars and it just kind of looks

like like he's in space even though he's not

but that panel man just wow and then the kaboom

and obviously everybody's sad uh donnie calls

april you know bring us home and that's how 88

ends and god damn it So I know this is kind of

preparing them these three issues 86 87 and 88

are Preparing the good guys for the battle for

the eventual battle with the bad guys eventually

getting them all kind of back together kind of

thing Issue 89 is something completely different

and we'll talk about that in a minute, but for

these three issues for battle lines for You know,

having the battle that they had, for having the

background story for Bishop, for doing what they

did with Slash. Do you feel that Three Issues

was enough to tell this story? As artfully as

they were able to tie that together and link

Bishop's origin story to the events of the battle

and to string it along like that, I think was...

a genius enough weaving of the writing that I

think it fits. And even in hindsight, as I was

thinking back to this, I thought that origin

story was issues and issues ago, so it felt like

they did it over a longer period of time. There

was probably an element of, oh shoot, we know

we need this many issues for the lead up to 100,

we need to wrap up some of these storylines,

and maybe that's what that was. They were trying

to get things tied up quickly. How do you feel

about? I'm perfectly fine. I think 86, 87, and

88 are an amazing arc where it gives us more

of, like we see in the beginning of 85, or 86,

where we see what happened after the events of

85 and the end of the Kingdom of Rats arc where

everybody is. And then we see them, not only

the turtles and their allies come together we

see how each of them deals with what they're

dealing with and then we see them start to bring

everyone together and I think that's the coolest

thing I still think there's the with with everybody's

kind of not going their own way but you can see

the cracks I mean, they haven't broken apart

yet. They are still together. I mean, they teamed

up right animals for this issue. But, you know,

old Hobbes being driven further toward let's

just murder all the humans. The turtles are faced

with all this death and war, which they don't

they don't want this. They don't like this. Their

friends are dying and they're going to have to

go home where they're not fully comfortable with

themselves. And then, yeah, we get the road to

one hundred where. we're going to put them in

the worst possible situation ever, and they're

already fragile. And I think that might be what

they're setting up here. But that last panel

of 88 where Old Hob's like, yeah, I'm just ready

to murder everything now, look on his face, was

like, oh, man, here we go. Yeah, absolutely.

What I said a second ago was that no the turtles

aren't broken up But they are all in very diff

like as I said at the beginning of 86 Donnie's

with with Harold or he's he's somewhere else

kind of thing and and you know Mike he's in with

the foot clan to make sure that master splinter

doesn't you know teach the kids to kill or whatever

Because that's the other thing I forgot I mean

I didn't forget that master splinter was you

know foot clan, but I forgot some of the depths

that Master Splinter has sunken to in order to

run the Foot Clan. And yeah, 86 to 88 was a great

arc. I think everything worked in it. There wasn't

anything out of place in my mind. I remember

when the Solicits and the Covers came out for

issue 89 and I'm like, oh no. Because, and I

like that IDW does this and I think it's really

cool. Last couple of years, IDW does Christmas

specials or Christmas issues for certain things.

And Turtles was a Christmas issue. 89 was a Christmas

issue. Again, I have not read this. I've only

ever seen the cover with Splinter, with the Christmas

tree, with the turtles. And you know what this

reminds me of? It's the Japanese flag. Oh, yeah.

That is friggin cool. I love that. That is so

awesome. I Wonder if that's deliberate. I mean

it definitely looks deliberate. I would assume

so I don't think it's deliberate in a bad way

I think it's a good way of you know, hey, we're

gonna reference this with this cover and yeah,

so Quick story before we get into this because

twist the night before Christmas. This is basically

issue 89 is basically Splinter is Scrooge. Yep.

It's, you know, a Christmas Carol. And as a kid,

as a little kid in the 80s, there was only ever

one animated special that I ever watched for

a Christmas Carol, which was Mickey's Christmas

Carol. This is the one where Scrooge McDuck is

Scrooge, obviously. And he sees the three ghosts

and Mickey is Bob Cratchit and all of that. So

I had only ever seen that. And then the Muppets

come along and give us the Muppet Christmas Carol.

And I'm like, okay, I love this. This is great

too. So those are my top two. In my previous

life, before I met Karen, I was out in California

in 2016 and my ex and her mother just had to

watch every single version of this story. Every

A Christmas Carol film, every time that this

story has been adapted, they had to watch them

all. Since then, I have loathed, and I refuse

to watch, unless it's Muppets or Mickey, A Christmas

Carol. Oh, I'm so sick of it, until now, because

I love that turtles have done it. And I love

how the writing begins, "'Twas the night before

Christmas, and all through the house, not a creature

was stirring, not even a mouse. The rat, however,

the rat is restless. The rat is lonely." And

we get to see Jenica. And I know at some point,

once I learn where the continuity fits for Jenica,

Jenica doesn't stay human. That's not a spoiler

to anybody. If anyone's seen the news or seen

any of the issues that are currently out, you

know Jenica. What happens to her? So we see her

talking to Master Splinter. And she wants to

see if she could leave the compound for a few

hours and she wants to go on a date with Casey.

Aww. I forgot that Jenica and Casey were kind

of a thing now. April and Casey were kind of

broken up at this point. I don't know if April...

Don't tell me. I don't know if April and Casey

ever get back together kind of thing but I had

forgotten that Jenica and Casey were an item

at this point. and little Tommy boy is awake

and he wants Santa and he has whiskers and and

Yeah, so splinter does tell her yes, you can

go and all of that and she says good night master

splinter and Tommy says good night, mr. Splinter

I just love how they they you know show how little

kids talk in certain things in comics, that's

so cool. So we have shots of Splinter, you know,

going to his, you know, closing his door, going

to his chair, and sitting by himself, and he's

closed his eyes, lonely indeed. And all of a

sudden, awaken, Hamato Yoshi, awaken. Now. Wahoo,

you. Oroko Saki? What the hell? I think this

is our first Ghost Shredder appearance. Yeah,

pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, Shredder is - Foreshadowing,

and I didn't even know it at the time. Yeah.

Shredder is an amazing Jacob Marley. Yeah, in

Christmas Carol, wasn't Scrooge loosely responsible

for Jacob Marley's death? Yep. And then, yeah,

well, Splinter killed this dude here. Yep. In

this conversation they're having here, they're

talking about their names, and like, this is

my old name, I used to be called that, just like

you used to be called. And you aren't any of

those names, you aren't who you're supposed to

be. think that the shredders communicating to

splinter that he has lessons to learn because

he's forgotten who he is and Yeah, we're finding

a splinter where when he killed the shredder

a couple issues back and Took over the foot clan

and we're gonna turn this into the baddest organization

ever because I'm tougher and better and hey I'm

clan. He's a foot clan. I mean the foot clan

was stolen from Hamato's line by Saki and So

he's taking it back. This is what he owns and

We're so used to splinter being the good guy

that yeah, he was a ninja. He was an assassin

He was killed people for money for hire sort

of a thing and So when we see him like that it

doesn't feel like the splinter that we grew up

with it doesn't feel like the splinter that we've

seen for 75 issues and You know when we see this

issue we see it's not the splinter that splinter

wants to be either. Right. Yeah. And, you know,

as, you know, basically Ghost Shredder, Ghost

Shredder Marley says, you tonight, you'll be

visited by three ghosts. And at the end of this,

no, Saki, please don't go. Because he is so lonely.

And almost instantaneously, Akka shows up. And

she's supposed to be the ghost of Christmas past

So for those that don't know who Akka is she's

the bird -like lady who was kitsune's sister

from the pantheon Pantheon, yeah, which I think

that I think is completely IDW's invention and

I think so into the pantheon from other universes

and What a wonderful Wonderful new addition.

It gives us that whole other dimension of potential

strife for our heroes, but they come with benevolent

intentions this time. Yes, they do. And I was

not expecting to cry twice in this trade. You

heartless, creative bastards. Again, I say that

with all the love in my heart, but yikes. So

Ghost of Christmas Past Akka takes him back to

Japan. to when Tang Shen and the boys were human.

And I think this is probably one of, if not the

most, we've seen of the Hamato family. We saw

them before, but it was more of telling the story

of how Orokosaki destroyed their family. But

what we're seeing here is how... And I love the

way they tell the story how each of the parents,

Yoshi and Shin, and then the four boys, how each

of them matter, and I love how the story is told.

It's just so fun. And these boys, man, they do

not, the turtle boys, as humans, they do not,

like, I see Raph's mischief on his face. I see

Donnie's kind of, you know, I guess, quiet reserve

or kind of thinking thing on his face. And then

Leo and Mikey, I don't like, it's just, it's

so crazy to see. And then, you know, we sadly

have to relive and hear Hamato Yoshi, please

not this, not again. And we. you know have to

relive that that moment where shredder killed

his family and He says you know she asks him.

What do you see and he says I see a man who brought

destruction and death to those he loved most

a Failed husband a failed father whatever lesson

you sought to teach me was lost Akka because

I can look no more the pain is far too great

and she says That is the lesson to Mato Yoshi

to understand the things you cannot see. During

each moment in time, you told me what you saw,

a beautiful wife and dutiful sons, always the

very best of the others in your life, those you

loved and cherished with every fiber of your

being. It was only at the end, during your most

painful memory, that you finally saw yourself.

And then you saw... Only an utter failure, never

realizing that throughout it all, you failed

to see something else, something much more significant.

A loyal and loving husband, a doting and compassionate

father, a sage and a patient teacher, a good

and honorable man. And he says, he replies to

her, but not a perfect one. No man is perfect

to Matayoshi, the only thing that is perfect

is love. No, I feel like some sort of 70s porn

music should start at this point You know so

and I love you know, he goes, you know the next

dude the Toad Baron comes in as the ghost of

Christmas present and he says she's right. You

know, nobody's perfect But everybody loves a

party. What did you think of the past before

we go on to more of the present? What did you

think of the past story in that lesson? That

is one, the way the IDW handled the origin of

the turtles in Splinter as humans in ancient

Japan and Made all of that make sense that we've

been reading since the 80s and it never really

clicked like anytime I get to spend time there

I'm thankful for it, and I think it's amazing

and I mean this this is I can see what they're

doing. This is part of the lesson that splinter

needs to remember who he is Because he has definitely

forgotten In light of his current situation and

so to see him reminded and how painful that is

You know, we can only hope that he remembers

this lesson And doesn't need to do it next Christmas.

Yeah, exactly So the toad Baron brings him to

the present and he brings him to the Kwan Hamato

layer and he says But why is it so stark? Where

are all the Christmas lights? My sons have always

celebrated this holiday with garish abandon.

And we see, you know, they look in on them and

obviously they can't hear what Toad Barren and

Splinter are saying, but Mikey and Leo are here

and says... Feels like I'm going to keep losing

everyone I love, Leo. You know what I mean? Well,

you pretty much love everybody, little bro, so

that's probably true. And we see Mikey with a

picture of Slash, so even though this is more

of a Christmas carol kind of thing with Splinter,

I love that they're obviously keeping up with

the continuity of what happened in the last issue.

Yeah, and the foreshadowing with Ghost Shredder

popping up here, too. Uh -huh. Oh, this was the

episode, this was the issue that I was talking

about earlier, how everyone's kind of split apart.

Even though they were a little bit split apart

in the beginning of 86. So we see that Harold

and Donnie are together. We see that Alopex and

Raph are out with Woody. Woody says, it's too

bad the little dude couldn't be here. I miss

the micster. So I think that's absolutely awesome

that, you know, Angel and Alipax and Raph and

Woody are there sharing pizza. And, you know,

so we see how they're all kind of separated during

the holidays and the toad barons, Grog is gone

and so is he and he says, good luck. And then

so cold and Gothano appears. The ghost of Turtle's

future or whatever. I don't remember this member

of Anthium. Gothano, without looking him up,

I think he was part of one of the Ghostbuster

arcs that we did, I think. I want to say... But

I do not remember off the top of my head. I can't

remember if he was in the background of those

Toad Baron episodes where the turtles crashed

the party. Yeah, I'm not sure. And what he shows

Splinter is interesting. Very, very interesting.

He shows them in basically Foot Clan type uniforms.

I love the way those look. I think those look

so cool. And, you know, we start with Donnie

in the back. Well, it's over now. Yeah, let's

get out of here. I'm sorry, Mikey, if there was

another way. It's okay, Leo. We did the right

thing. He stopped being father a long time ago.

And we see Splinter in Shredder's old uniform.

Yikes. And he's basically begging Gothano to

say that, please tell me this is not true. Please

tell me this is this kid, you know, can yet be

changed kind of thing. And He comes to realize

at the end of this, you know, this is not a dream

it's a lesson and he calls his guards and and

he wants them to you know go out and get the

family and get the allies and wherever they may

be and bring them to him and and Yeah Just what

did you think to this point? It's it's nice to

see splinter coming back to who I want him to

be the the better version of himself, right?

You know, we we we get our payoff on the last

page and it's A more saccharine than I would

you know, hey, it's but it's the Christmas issue.

It's supposed to be like this And after after

the last arc, I think we do need a little break,

a little breath of this air, but Splinter has

donned a Santa outfit and is celebrating with

all of the children with presents. And yes, the

turtles and Casey and the turtles' extended family

with Alopex show up just as, yes, presents and

things are happening. And hey, welcome, my family.

You know what? I'm looking back on this and reading

it and knowing what's coming up next I feel like

this is a moment where splinters like yes, I

remember this lesson ha ha ha so good. Very funny

I am Santa ha ha and then he wakes up the next

day and says well when this is the next contract

that come in who do we have to murder and what

gang boss is trying to cram in on foot planetary

let's go and Like ah, he's back to normal now

or back to evil normal. Yeah so Yes, so we get

the celebration like you said at the end of the

book here. It says, having holidays to our TMNT

family everywhere. As far as Gothano, his first

appearance was in issue 71 with the Pantheon

family reunion part one. I look better too. Yeah,

that's where Gothano comes from as far as the

Pantheon family stuff. In the back of the trade

we have an art gallery of the various covers.

Kevin Eastman covers from various issues and

other things. We get some cool slash covers from

the various artists. Very, very, very cool. We

also get some background stuff. So very, very

awesome. Absolutely. Like, I love this stuff.

This is why we're doing, like with the exception

of next week's episode, folks, next week will

be our final Back to the Future episode for the

main ongoing that IDW did. Hopefully my buddy

Optimus Solo will be joining me for that. But

this is why we're doing the TMNT coverage now,

because not just to get caught up, but just to

really enjoy it and just have fun. and man I

forgot how good I've always known for years since

we've been covering the series you know I always

think back to you know when I first read that

first physical trade and I saw the four red masks

and I complained to you and I'm like no no red

no all four red man you're like just wait for

it it gets better reason and I'm like okay and

then obviously we get the color masks and I'm

happy and it works and but no between Bobby Tom

and Kevin between Dave's art and Michael's art

Rhonda on colors Sean on letters some of the

letters just popped off this page especially

some of the holiday stuff at issue 89 I want

to say might be my favorite issues since issue

50 Just absolutely dug it. It's so good. It's

so interesting What are some of your other thoughts

on on this this arc tonight? I think with the

Christmas issue I see why you're responding to

it so much and it is Think it's a lot of it's

a lot of coming home for the turtles in in a

way, you know You get splinter remembering why

he is the father and you get that thing where

you're we're bringing the family back together

and it ends on the high note where they are together

for an afternoon and You know, we need that we

need the togetherness now strength comes from

family So it's very comfortable and it's it's

a it's a warm feel -good issue and and after

the the The terror and horror of the previous

three books that we read tonight. Yeah, that

was good It was exciting and some great dramatic

stuff happened, but It's a good way to end it

Absolutely, I cannot wait for us to do more of

these things and as I've been saying all along

in this recording We will be doing more turtles

within the next two and a half months So yeah

overall On a 0 to 5 scale, I would probably give

the entire story 4 .5. I'd almost just want to

give it a 5, but I'll say 4 .5. But even though

4 .5, I'm still not... Some comics, they're things

in the art that I don't like, or things in the

art that... Make me go huh or what that kind

of happened a little bit when we did the Batman

TMNT 1 & 2 Which we will do Batman TMNT 3 eventually

as well. Thankfully that's outside of this the

IDW main continuity But yeah, normally when I'm

reading other comics there's one or two reading

turtles comics It's not I don't think it's just

because of turtles. I don't think it's just because

it's this team putting their all into it But

no matter what the artist is, no matter what

the art changes are, I always find that I enjoy

it more than not enjoying it. And I follow a

number of the artists on Facebook and on social

media and I think what might make this team more

unique or stand out from other people doing comics

is that these people They're me, they're you.

They are the children who grew up with the turtles.

And every line on the paper, there's the love

for the source material and a reverence or how

do you say it? The pride of the fact that they're

working on something that was their baby. Their

childhood toy is now something that they are

producing for other people. And so there's a

reverence for the work that they're doing. I

there's nobody at IDW putting this stuff out

who Doesn't who thinks about it like a property

like it's this big commercial Corporate thing

that's exactly what the turtles are now I mean

it started with Eastman and Laird and an independently

owned comic company on a black -and -white newsprint

book published at a newspaper place down the

street from them. But now Nickelodeon owns it.

It's corporate. And they do weird things with

the property. But what I think keeps IDW alive

is that everybody working on it loves it and

loves the turtles and gets the turtles. And I

think that's why everything is good. Absolutely.

Just want to say, folks, that this is our last

episode for the month of November. And I want

to say that I thank everyone for still listening

to the show. Thank you for giving us your time.

Thank you to Joe for coming on and doing all

these things with me. At first when I suggested

to you, hey, let's do all the turtle stuff and

let's record weekly or... biweekly or double

week, you know, to it today. At first, I thought

you were gonna come back and be like, you're

nuts. Well, I kind of do feel like I'm nuts for

saying yes. The middle of the school year, I'm

teaching people how to do construction and use

power tools over the internet. and that's really

difficult and I'm you know I had to buy a whole

new computer because I needed something that

I could edit videos on I'm like a Yankee wood

shop youtuber now and I post these videos for

the kids to learn this stuff I thought I wasn't

gonna have the time but I will make the time

because I'm having fun And I like talking about

it. Do you want to record all that? I could do

this every day, Mike. Let's do it. Let's cover

the turtles books. Don't don't tell me that because

I'll hold you to that. Hey, I could do that.

I could do that. No, no, no. So, yeah, December

twenty nineteen was the last episode. Three seventy

seven was Star Wars volume one and two. The twenty

fifteen Marvel Star Wars series was the last

full episode before the coronavirus hit. uh,

here in our, on our, I don't say in our, on our

planet. Episode 378, 379, 380, 380 .5, and then

381 to 384 were all done during the pandemic.

Um, thank you to everyone who had to do editing

for me on those or to help me get them recorded,

that kind of thing, because I didn't have my

computer until now. Episode 385 I did myself

and obviously episode 386. I've done myself.

So I've done three episodes First three episodes.

I've edited of this show specifically in almost

over a year and Man just the world has changed

so much since last December and it's it's crazy

the online learning You know you guys you teachers

having to adapt to something completely new and

man that's just crazy and the reason why I started

thanking you and thanking everybody is because

as I said this will be the last episode of November

which would be up the the Wednesday before Thanksgiving

here in the US so November 25th is when this

goes up Thursday November 26th is Thanksgiving

so I hope everyone has a great socially distanced

Thanksgiving kind of thing I guess I don't know

how people are gonna do holidays this year webcam

at man soon. Well true. Yeah, that's about the

only way My aunt just canceled the the Bach family

Thanksgiving. We were we thought she was crazy

for starting it And then trying to create an

event, but then we're like wait the numbers are

kind of crazy and yeah, you know sure enough

since March 15th between March and April I knew

four separated from me by one or two folks, like

four people passed away from it and like six

caught it. And then it got dark over the summer

and I didn't hear about anything. And then just

this past week, yeah, it's getting crazy again.

I mean, I know another six, eight people that

have caught it and gotta be safe. Can't just

be safe, man. It's not, I don't wanna find out

what happens to me if I get it. Yeah, exactly.

So enjoy your podcasts. We can record these.

We are about as socially distant as we can be.

I mean, I have to go to New York to get a little

further away, but. Yeah, I think from Washington

state to Michigan is enough social distance.

Yeah, I think we're good. I don't think you can

get me. Yeah, exactly. Hey, wait a second. What

about you getting me? What are you saying? I'm

going to give you the virus? Come on now. I'm

six one and over 400 pounds. I'm healthy as a

dead horse Not really my house. I haven't man.

I haven't been to a target since March I haven't

browsed a toy aisle looking for action figures.

It's killing me, man You know, it's funny you

mentioned that this is not the podcast for toys

But since we're talking and we haven't talked

like this in a while When my when Karen and I

go to Walmart or whatever when we have to not

that we do it all the time, but when we have

to The only thing I really look at and thankfully

they're in the electronics department is like

Funko's because I Just toy aisles depress me

because I'm so far other than Funko I'm so far

removed from action figures now in my life. It

just I don't know. It just doesn't feel like

whatever so the other day We're in Walmart and

I was over by that section and I'm like, oh go

down here whole friggin' thing was bare. Like,

they had some Marvel action figures or something,

there was no Transformers, no G .I. Joe, like

maybe a smattering of like Star Wars and Lego,

but there was nothing, and I'm like, God damn

it, I miss Toys R Us. Well, the shipping has

been really goofy, and delays everywhere, it's

affected us for sure. Absolutely. Absolutely.

So we are going to get the heck out of here.

Where can the people find you online if they

would like to do so, sir? The best place to find

me online is through Facebook. If you type facebook

.com slash geek stuff garage sale. We did not

have a garage sale this year. Go figure. But

if you want to send me a message, you can reach

me there. I answer that account. I'd love to

hear from you. Absolutely. I am at TFG1Mike on

Twitter, you can also follow at The Pull Bag

and at Heatcast Radio as well. Make your great

escape into comics and join us next time when

we head back to the future with IDW Publishing.

When this baby hits 88 miles per hour, you're

gonna see some serious shit. You've just heard

the latest episode of The Pullback, the GCRN's

first comic review and discussion podcast. There

are several ways to get in touch with us and

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and at geek cast radio So until next time make

your great escape into comics and unleash the

geek in you We're home. Were you seen? Of course

not, Master Splinter. We practiced ninja. The

art of invisibility. Practice harder. Ten flips

now. And remember, go ninja, go ninja, go! I

made another funny.