Batman White Knight Part 2

This is Kevin Conroy, and I am the goddamn Batman.

I love Gotham, and it's time I paid her back

for the debt owed by the Joker. The city deserved

better than you, better than the Joker, and better

than the Dark Knight. So, I'm going to be her

White Knight. You've just jumped inside the pull

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on the Geekcast Radio Network. So without any

further ado, it's time to talk about the comics

we are reading right now here inside the pull

bag. Zing! Pow! Zap! Yes, we've defeated the

Joker and his stupid gas from last week. This

is the pull bag, episode 332. I am, of course,

TFG and Mike. Joining me are my fellow... bat

cohorts in comic revolt dan the comic concierge

hello sir hello and of course trying to be djv

from simplistic reviews and apparently folks

we're gonna get a lot more negative with dj the

rest of this uh story for batman white knight

i'm breathing in more stupid gas hold on i love

this stuff more stupid gas so we are here to

continue our coverage of batman white knight

uh starting with issue five um and i'm just gonna

say this right now actually i'm gonna have the

joker say it so yeah that's right folks we don't

really give a shit about spoilers here so We're

going to spoil the hell out of this. Last week,

DJ had mentioned the Batmobiles and whatever,

and they actually had pseudo -Batmobiles in the

first, I think it was the third issue they had

appeared. But, man, if Sean Murphy does not pull

out all the Batmobile stops in these final four

issues of this... And I believe it was one of

you guys last week that said you liked the Batmobile

that first showed up. Oh, the biggest fist pump

of this entire run was animated series Batmobile!

Okay, yeah, that. Yeah, later. But I'm saying,

was it you, Dan, in the beginning? Or was it

you, DJ, in the beginning that said you liked

the Tumblr -looking Batmobile? Oh, Dan liked

the Tumblr. I liked it, too. I saw that, and

I'm like, really? That's what they went with?

everyone's there every batmobile's there yes

yes at the end it is and you know there's only

if it's not batman there's only one person that

can drive the bts batmobile and that has to be

nightwing what i love about the use of batmobiles

in this series is that it's not just hey let's

insert The 66, the 89, the BTS, the this, the

that, the Tumblr, the whatever, the Batman Forever,

the Batman and Robin, whatever. Let's not just

insert them. Let's give them a good use. Yeah,

they're part of the plot. Yeah, make them a part

of the plot. Because, hello, what is Batman without

a Batmobile? Honestly, he's probably nothing.

He's walking. Exactly, you know. And, man, like...

You want to talk about fist bumps kind of stuff

or shaking your fist in the air kind of stuff.

Like, as soon as all the Batmobiles showed up,

I'm like, okay, now I'm sold. This is the best

Batman book of 2017. I mean, the Batman 66 Batmobile

is completely impractical, but I was still happy

it was there. Exactly. The 66 Batmobile. Exactly.

So, in issue five, we have Harley, real Harley,

and the Joker. The Joker wants to learn how to

fight. And he says, oh, not in the face, though.

Well, Batman's not going to not hit you in the

face. No. And you guys had said before we got

choked out by stupid gas last week, I think...

You know, you guys had said how Batman, Dan,

you said how cool Batman looks. Like, he's not

the Hulk, but he's very Hulk -ish. The panel

with him swinging in, like after the little argument

with Nightwing here, the panel with the orange

sky and the swinging in, oh man, he just takes

up the whole page almost. Like, that's cool.

Absolutely love that. And again, Sean's art in

this. DJ, you said it was a little gritty and

whatever. That's what I like about certain Batman

stories. It doesn't have to be high polish and

gloss. It can be down and dirty for a while.

And that's what this is. Especially for Gotham.

Exactly. Gotham City and Batman arcs. No arc.

Gritty works for that. Yep. Absolutely. What

else are we thinking for... for the story part,

Dan, as far as this goes. Because, man, this...

For this issue or just in general? This issue

and issue six as well. Because what I found interesting

was, and I think they do this through the end,

these final four issues, five and six, and I

believe to a lesser extent seven and eight, five

and six are almost fully character -based around

the... I don't want to call her Joker's daughter,

but that's what it reminds me of. I know she's

Neo Joker, but, you know, seeing the cover to

issue five, I'm like, okay, so that's Harley

kind of, but she also looks like the Joker's

daughter kind of thing. But yeah. How are you

feeling with how this is playing out throughout

issues five and six? I think five and six certainly

a little bit more. I mentioned last episode that

perhaps a little bit overstuffed at times. I

think 5 and 5 is one where because of that, you

don't have as much story progression because

you're kind of getting a little bit of every

little piece from Napier's moment to we were

getting more splintered between the Bat family.

So I think 5 is an issue. It ends stronger than

it begins. But I do like the idea, basically,

of, you know, getting to the point where you

have to, of realizing that the benefit of kind

of creating this force or, like, seeing Nightwing

and Barbara Gordon kind of step out of the shadows

of Batman, literally, and join forces with, like,

this, you know, basically... police force um

and and you know kind of the benefits of you

know trying to basically see that batman's gone

over the edge uh just you see out of control

uh now that our afford's dead um so i i thought

you know there were some intriguing developments

and we didn't get as much uh into you know how

last issue ended at issue four that's a little

bit still not really touched upon as much but

um But outside of it feeling a little overstuffed,

still, I thought it did a good job of just trying

to push the story forward. DJ? Yeah. Dick Grayson

in a cop outfit. Kind of made me go, okay. The

car stuff I really liked. And this is kind of

leading into where I... the the issue where i

i got upset where i was kind of like i was i

was on board i was on board and then it led to

something where i was like oh okay this is something

else but no um uh again when it comes to everything

in terms of uh artistically and how they do this

stuff i'm always on board with this and i like

you you were saying earlier the fact that they

I would have never guessed they would have implemented

any of the Batman. I didn't never, of all the

things that I thought was going to show up in

this book, 66 Batmobile. I would have been last

on my list. I never, especially because of the

art style of this book, because it's like very

like serious and dark and gritty. And then there's

a 66. What has happened here? So, yeah. I think

this was kind of the beginning of the end, though,

for me, when I was kind of like, I'm on board,

I'm on board. Oh, it's turning. It's turning

into something I'm not sure I am a fan of. And

I think that's the coolest thing with the Bat

mythos in general, not just Batman himself, but

every artist, when they get to join a Batman

book, gets to put their stamp. on the Batmobile.

Like, you know, you look at the 89 Batmobile,

which is part of the story is that they're going

to basically EMP the Tumbler and you need an

analog one to be able to keep up with the guy.

Well, 89 is about as analog as you can get, you

know, obviously post 66. And it looks just as

I remember it. It still has Sean's stamp on it.

Without it, like... You can't have someone draw

and color and whatever the 89 Batmobile and have

it look not like itself. I think the nose is

a little... Just the angle of the shot that I'm

looking at where Gordon basically says, I should

have arrested Batman decades ago. If someone

is going to bring him in, it ought to be me.

That's the first time we really see the 89 Batmobile,

so in the way that it's angled in this part of

the story, the way that it's on the page, it

looks a little smaller, but as we see more of

it, it looks like itself, but Sean was still

able to put his stamp on that and other Batmobiles

as well, still maintaining their... classic looks.

You know what would have been really... It wouldn't

have worked in this, but what would have been

really cool is if he found a way to put the Batman

Beyond Batmobile in here, because essentially

it's just an upside -down BTS one. Yeah. Well,

I... I take that back. Bruce's... Batman has

a time machine, and he had a Bluetooth to it.

Yeah. I take that back. It's not the Batman Beyond

Batmobile. That's an upside -down version of

the BTS one. It's Bruce's car in the Batman Beyond

universe. That's the upside -down version of

the BTS Batmobile. So we get to a point where

DJ is like, okay, this book turned, I'm out.

So why don't you explain this now? You're talking

about the fight between the two of them, right?

Yeah, yeah, I am. And again, this book, from

before this point, to me anyway, maybe I completely

misread it, The Joker, as Dan said, is trying

to be better than Batman. He's trying to beat

Batman by using his wits, turning the city against

him, which I was all for. And then they decide

to throw that out to where, in the most emasculating

thing I've ever seen done to Batman in my entire

life, shrug. batman broken back to bane is the

joker choking him out in a first off beating

him in a fist fight and then choking him out

with a fucking utility belt excuse my language

i i was bullshit as soon as i read the bullshit

i don't know i i was completely pulled pulled

out of the book i'm like no see what i thought

was gonna happen was batman was gonna we took

off his utility belt they were gonna fight and

the cops are there and around them and whatever,

I thought Batman, the Joker was going to let

Batman pound on him. And that would make, and

essentially make him look more of a monster.

Like, you know, using excessive force. It's the

cop that can't stop what he's doing. And then

he would kind of realize that he's gone too far,

and then he would turn himself in. And that's

how we get to the opening shot of this book.

But no, they just say, Joker's... better than

Batman at fighting now. Wait, what? I think that's

really simplifying it. Let's clarify. That's

what happens. Let's clarify. First, let's not...

So, Jack, if you're in this, part of what is

also showing is that he's struggling with the

fact that part of him actually does want to be

better. Like, he has that Joker there that's

still there, but he... Yes, he wants to be Batman,

but he actually does want to do good. more and

more, and it's that Joker kind of bringing him

down. So it's not simply that he wants to be

Batman. At this point, it's not because Batman's

gone over the edge. Let's not forget that Batman's

near death. He has so much so that Alfred had

to basically give him blood to save him. Batman's

fallen off a bridge. Batman just went through

a car accident. We saw him when he was the last

issue. He was covered in blood talking to Mr.

Freeze. This is a Batman that is not in good

health. Are you using the Kylo Ren, Rey defense

where he was shot in the chest by Chewie? This

is why, honestly, this is why Batman can never

be an interesting character is because it's always

like he has to win. He could have lost, just

not in that way. Other than Joker peeing on him,

there's nothing more emasculating than getting

choked out. by a utility belt that you own by

the Joker. But the thing of it is, though, Batman

already had his too -far -I'm -gonna -beat -the

-Joker -down moment when he forced the pills

down his throat. Look at me. I'm unarmed. Wouldn't

you rather beat me the old -fashioned way? One

more romp for old time's sake? Earlier in the

story, like, Batman had... No, it really shouldn't.

You're wrong. I'm sorry. The headbutt that he

gives him, the punches that they do, and because...

Okay, so Joker headbutts Batman, and Batman is

reeling, and Joker's reeling, and Joker falls

back, and okay, well, he said at the beginning

of the fight, I'm unarmed. Do you want to do

this one more time for old time's sake kind of

a thing? You think of the Joker. Yes, this is

Jack Napier here. It's not the Joker character.

He's in his quote -unquote human form. What's

a normal guy going to do against Batman, who

is a fucking legend? Of course he's going to

take his own damn thing and choke him the hell

out. Because that's part of the story of the

Joker is supposed... Jack Napier is supposed

to be... the i don't necessarily want to say

harvey dead from the dark knight but that's kind

of where i'm because hello it's batman white

knight white knight dark knight yada yada yada

that's all i'm thinking it's your fault dj how

is it my fault i'm not the one who decided to

make joker the best fighter in the world to beat

a man who trained for 30 years to be the greatest

fighter in five minutes who's hopped up on pills

i'm not the one that did that See, again, my

whole point was that I understand Joker trying

to be better than Batman and turning it against

him. But at this point, unless Batman's on Death's

Door and Dan is right, Batman sometimes seems

to always have to win a fistfight. But there's

other ways that the Joker could have beaten.

Okay, so what other physical altercation? But

I think it got to that point. It's not like it

got to a physical altercation, but it wasn't

that he just went straight up to him and fought

him. They legitimately did use his wits. They

blinded him. They're using his own weapons against

him. It wasn't just that he went up to just fight

him. Also, if you look at what... batman is doing

and it goes into his speech at the end with commissioner

gordon he's not trying to beat jack napier he's

trying to hurt him and he even comes to that

realization of of he of what was him keeping

joker around or jack napier around and you know

uh there was a selfishness to it because he enjoyed

hurting him he was he this was a batman who was

at his angriest his Alfred is dead uh his entire

interpretation of his parents is being destroyed

because he thinks his dad's a Nazi uh like this

is a this is a Batman that's not in a good place

even when he you know he jumps down from the

the ledge we see that he can't even stand so

this isn't necessarily like there were there

were a lot of things done to get to this point

like like it was you know when Bane eventually

be Batman he did so by you know throwing everything

at him and yeah perhaps like yeah maybe I don't

necessarily think that Jack Napier winning this

battle winning this fight necessarily means that

he's a better fighter than Batman for all I think

in this situation because of everything that

was going on he came out the victor is it perhaps

was it the best way to do it i don't know but

like i don't i don't think that takes away from

everything that kind of led to that moment and

then what what it says no no i i'm just saying

this was the moment where i was kind of like

i'm i guess some people must buy this moment

and others don't i just didn't buy this moment

for me and that's kind of where i was kind of

like oh it's such a you ever like watch a film

or a television show and if something happens

we're like uh i was in on board but this is so

like the new halloween movie there's a there's

a scene where something stupid happens and it

kind of like took me completely out of the situation

where i i just couldn't wrap my head around it

and i'm like what especially because there's

other ways they've cut it they could have done

it but they did it in this emasculating way Where

I was like, what? He could have done anything

else. He could have hit him with a freaking car.

Anything other than I'm going to choke you out

like a baby with your own tools. That's what

kind of made me go, come on, man. Especially

when you've been setting this up as Joker is

using his wits to beat Batman. And this is, I

know you're saying the wits was blinding him

and all this other stuff. But at the end of the

day, after all that, then he fights him one -on

-one and beats him. up like a little baby i pulled

me out of it that just pulled me maybe it's just

me i i i don't i i don't like a character whose

entire history is based on learning how to be

the greatest fighter of all time being dispatched

by this wiry dude who's not even the joker at

this point he's just you know normal joker and

he chokes him out like a bit anything else it's

the choking out part that is the breaking of

the bat thing was emasculating to me but it was

because Bane is 7 feet tall and 400 pounds this

is like a regular dude rolling up on Batman wounded

or not just taking him out it just pulled me

out of it I'm sorry Yeah, there are plenty of

television shows these days that I'll see one

thing in one episode and I'm like, I'm never

watching this show again. Look at you, Supergirl

from the CW. Oh my god, that show. But no, this

I felt, like Dan is saying, I'm sorry to make

you the odd man out, DJ, but I felt that this

fight was the climax of all the psychological

warfare that... that they were doing in the previous

you know x number of issues and i think and i

think i would be more bothered bothered by if

it wasn't for that conversation at the end where

we saw batman that like the whole purpose of

this like why i think it's different than something

like you know breaking the bat or what have you

is that it's looking at kind of uh Basically,

almost the selfishness of Batman at times. Even

in the normal Batman universe, Batman tends to

act rather selfishly. And it does question that.

I know people say if Batman were to kill Joker,

he'd be the worstest Joker, which is stupid.

But... it's not necessarily they would have to

kill him but there there is this you know almost

an addiction to that brutality and Like I mentioned

that like I don't like he's not trying I don't

think he's even trying to beat the Joker here

like when he shoved the the pills on his throat

he was doing so basically just to the cars cars

harmed to know the torturing he does of criminals

to get information out of them I think what he

comes to realization of is that he likes that.

And he maybe before would think it's a means

to an end. But I thought within that conversation

is that. He realizes he's gone too far. Yeah,

he's not killing people, but his actions have

repercussions that are just as bad to him personally

and into the city. And I think he just used the

justification of it's what he needs to do. And

the fact he does have that one rule that makes

it OK. And I think what this is showing us is

that that that is not OK, like that, that even

if you have that one rule. Sometimes he knows

all the rules have repercussions. You're just

not willing to face and this story makes him

face it Yeah, okay, maybe Batman and Joker aren't

the same physical it is emasculating because

it's the stories about emasculating Batman it

taking that away from him in and and kind and

you know taking basically everything he holds

dear and destroying it in a way from like like

i mentioned from his parents from alfred he's

gone through a hell of a lot uh perhaps there's

a better way of doing it i don't know i thought

that moment was satisfying but i guess i'm not

a person that tends to like take that like those

who can win in a fight situations i don't really

care about to me it's about the story you're

telling i thought with the story it was telling

It is somewhat odd that we had that scene earlier

where Jeff Napier couldn't even stand up to Harley,

but I also think that that was also him playing.

I think it was very evident that he wasn't pulling

his punches per se, or at least perhaps that

was what he was doing. I don't know. I guess

to me, like you said, if it took you out, it

took you out. It didn't for me. And the thing

of it is, is how often in any story, not just

in Elseworlds or a one shot kind of eight issue

miniseries, how often is the Joker going to win?

Like, I mean, really win in a fight with Batman?

Not often. I've seen him win in fights with Batman

that I bought. I've seen him stab Batman in the

gut and Batman or poison Batman or, you know.

This was just a straight up fist fight. That's

why I was like, especially when you were giving

me this whole couple issues of him using cunning

to outwit Batman. I was all for that. I thought

he was going to do the Machiavellian to the degree

is I want Batman to beat me here because if he

beats me here, then I will crack him because

he will realize he is what he hates the most

and he'll turn himself in and we take him. That's

what I thought they were leading in. through

this it seemed like you know it'd be cool if

joker beats up batman moment in the book where

i was just kind of like uh i don't know you've

been telling me this we didn't we didn't saw

was again it was napier like he was actually

trying to do good and and then like immediately

went the other way where he regretted his motions

and what he was doing and i think that was a

turning point for him and his character because

up to that point like obviously he was he was

basically you know a criminal as much as he was

as the joker but i think it i think what he what

he saw is that the lack of satisfaction in that

moment like that's what he you know talked about

like that's what he's been wanting and hoping

for and it nothing it was meaningless um so i

like i thought that was an interesting way of

taking it where it's like no it's now he's kind

of where batman typically would have been where

you know he's seeing that they're you know getting

what he wanted all this time it was the chase

that he enjoyed and once he finally got it the

chase being gone there it was just emptiness

and i thought that was a good way of approaching

it And he even says in that moment as part of

the dialogue, I've thought about this moment

for decades, wonder what I'd do if I ever got

to see you like this, all broken and vulnerable.

I think DJ does make a good point in the last

episode about it was missing that opening epilogue

of what... it would have been if what made him

go to this point because off the start we see

that he's a crazy you know off the wall character

so if there was something in addition to kind

of get to like let us understand why this batman

is different game kind of situation we don't

necessarily get that we're just kind of told

this is this is a different batman um that could

have made that moment a little bit make a little

bit more sense because we could see like this

is a thing that's been going on for some time

um but for our understanding you know we For

everything we're given, we're just kind of told

that this is a Batman that lacks a moral compass

for whatever reason. And then we get to... The

end of Batman and Robin, ladies and gentlemen.

I'm sorry. The freeze tack used as a ray to freeze

the city. Come on. That's so Batman and Robin

homage. Because they then, you know, reverse

it and use it to heat the city. Maybe Sean Murphy's

a huge fan of Batman and Robin. We're missing

it. No, what Sean Murphy, I think, likes... Sorry,

I don't mean to cut you off. But what he likes

to do is, like... He's been showing preview pages

of what's coming up next, and he's not a huge

fan of it. Asriel. And he's like, you know what?

I'm going to try to make it work. And I think

that's what he's trying to do is let's look at

things that didn't work in Batman's past, like

the Batman and Robin. Luckily, he didn't try

to use a credit card. Credit card. Oh, that would

have been awesome. And then I think, you know,

maybe that's what he's trying to do. Like, okay,

this definitely didn't work. It's easy to take

from things that did work. Let's try to take

some things that didn't work, but actually get

it to work. So I think that was what he was trying

to do. It is kind of jarring, because as DJ mentioned,

you have a more gritty take, and suddenly now

we're seeing Sen Joker in ice across buildings.

That does bring it up to a different level, but

yeah, it's hard not to think back to possibly

the worst comic book movie of all time. I have

to say that I... Elektra says hello, because

that's really the worst comic book movie of all

time. Come on now. That's a good fight right

there. You're going to think about a fight that's

even ground. Batman and Robin or Elektra. That's

the next GCR and Wars episode. Where everyone

loses. That's a snobber knocker right there.

That's right. It's hard to say, because Elektra's

just super boring, but Batman and Robin's just

like, yeah. You can hate watch Batman and Robin.

You can't hate watch Electra. Have you ever seen

Electra more than once? I don't think anybody

has. I saw it in theaters and I'm ashamed to

say that. I think I saw it twice. Once on DVD

and then once on FX or something. Give it a break,

man. I didn't watch it all the way through on

FX. That was like, oh, hey, Electra's on after

five minutes. My brain's fried. I need, you know,

something else. FX fast forwards to that movie.

They're like, we'll play it like parts. We'll

put on Always Sunny. We're almost done. What

I love... Go ahead, Dan. You go ahead. What I

love about the... As the story continues here,

the... love between Jack and Harley. Like, I

want to see these two in their, like, these two

versions of these characters. I want to see them

in their own kind of series. Like, not necessarily

in this world, but just take these versions and

put them, drop them in some other story. Because

I really, the whole point of Batman White Knight,

at least for me, in the context of the Joker

and Harley or Jack Napier and Harley, is that

They really do love each other, and they want

to be better, especially the Joker. He wants

to be better for Harley. He says that she deserves

better than what he is and what he can give her.

The one thing that kind of, this is kind of how

issue six ends, the one thing that kind of dug

on me with a negative for this series is every

time he changes into the Joker, All the cops

pull their guns and just like, you know, I, I,

I don't know. It just, it's a little infuriating.

They fully trust him to make a police force and

all this stuff. The moment he switches the Joker,

they, they, they want to kill him immediately.

Yeah. I wouldn't think I, I. I wasn't a huge

fan of was like how when he changed he physically

changed like his skin changed colors and hair

changed colors. Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde. Yeah. I

just like that. Like, I don't know. Like it makes

it doesn't make as much sense. I guess I don't

I guess, you know, it's an artistic choice to

show that they're different people. But, you

know, but it just seems kind of weird. It's like,

wait, does the drug makes his skin go normalized?

It's I don't know. How are you, Dan? Are you

a face paint joker or are you a skin bleach?

chemical fan because there's two you know there's

two types of Joker when he puts the Heath Ledger

face paint one or you like the Jack Nicholson

I fell on some acid and now I mean my skin is

white one I don't necessarily have a preference

I guess like He has to have a deformed face,

so he can't just be like a dude. He can't be

like whatchamacallit in Batman 66 with the mustache

and pain over it. Unless you're going to do that,

then go all the way for it. So I think you have

to have a deformity of some sort. I don't know.

I think the deformed face makes a little bit

more sense because it's like... the planning

you'd have to do to always be, you know, like,

it would just be watching, like, Sting wrestle.

Anytime you try to, like, have face paint, it

always comes off, so it makes more sense to have

a deformed face, I guess. I don't know. I don't

really have a preference, but that's my logic,

I guess. I mean, see, at first, when they were

like, oh, he's cured, and oh, but wait, but he

has to keep taking these pills or else the cure

goes away kind of a thing, I'm like, oh. So not

only is he Jack Napier, the Joker, he's also

Two -Face. Because he has three personalities.

Three personalities. He actually only has two.

He has the Jack and the Joker. I kind of like

the visual change. Because how do you have a

Batman versus Joker story without seeing some

sort of version of the Joker makeup? Whether

it's the, you know, bleach skin or the you know

the uh the excess chemicals or the face paint

or whatever yeah yeah it's not a huge deal it

just seems to me like i mean i guess the other

way to do it was just because the eyes are such

a huge thing and that's like two color eyes because

that's something that could have been a little

more subtle of a change but It might have worked

if it was like in film or like a visual or audible

thing where maybe his voice and his demeanor

changed, something like that. You probably wouldn't

need the super physical green hair all of a sudden

stuff. And I also don't know if it's actually

physically changing or if that's more interesting.

Like if the world is also seeing it that way

or just for the audience because it's not clear.

And it was just something that I was just like

– I don't know if he needed to do that, but it's

more of a choice thing. Either way is fine, but

I just found it... I love that Harley is essentially

the schemer in this whole tale at this point.

I think she turns out to be the best character

in all this. I think the strongest and... and

we'll probably in a way the most moral because

the conversation between her and Batman at the

end like I thought you know she stood her ground

pretty well and I thought like John Murphy wrote

a really strong Harley like I loved her take

his take on that character and you know it I

hope we get more Harley like that where it's

she's much more complete of a character rather

than just like you know the the cliche type of

like putting you know And they do use Puddin'

in here several different times, and I think

it works well. I think Sean put it in at certain

points to say, hey, a little nod to BTS kind

of a thing. And like I said earlier, I want him

to take these two characters, Jack and Harley,

and just give them their own, like continue from

this point. whatever happens, you know, and just

give them their own story. Because, again, basic

premise of this is, what if the Joker's the hero

and Batman's the villain? That's the basic, you

know, promotional premise of the book. It doesn't

really get into the deeper part in the, you know,

like the back cover of the book or whatever other

promotion DC did for it kind of a thing. Like,

okay, sure. The Joker could be the hero, why

not? You know, whatever, kind of a thing. And,

you know, like we've already said last week and

this week about, you know, basically making Batman

to be the bad guy and the Joker basically showing

the GCPD and everybody else about, you know...

Oh God, I just realized... 99 % versus 1. Batman's

Trump. Oh, God. My head hurts now. I'm not even

touching that one. I'm not even touching that

one. He's better here. He goes out in the rain.

I don't know about that. He's not a fan of KGBeast,

so that's another one. you know, and... Again,

going to the multiple personality thing, I'm

Jack Napier, not the Joker, and I made Gotham

a better place. By the end of this story, by

the end of this book, I had no idea. When time

passes in a comic, I can usually tell, I had

no idea this was a year -long thing. When they

revealed that, I was like, oh my god. So they

make a deal, your confession in exchange for

Harley's freedom kind of a thing. And once again,

a Batman Joker moment. I don't think this has

ever happened. A Batman Joker moment inside the

Batmobile. Wow. Very, very cool. And we learn

the story of Jason Todd and the fact that he's

actually alive. And this one, he's the first

Robin. Did I read that correctly? Yes. Yeah.

Sean Murphy mentioned he kind of jungled up the

timeline in his universe, I guess. I guess the

power you have when you can create your own world,

I guess. Yep. So we learn the history of that

and we get to a panel that's just like, I can't.

They're driving through the frost -covered streets

of Gotham to to get to freeze and, and the quote

unquote cure and the, the heat cannon and, and

all this and everything else. And, you know,

so they, they find out about the tunnels and

that's how, you know, Nazi wanes and everybody

else moved all the stuff around and Nazi wanes.

I don't know. I, I don't know. And we get to

one of the coolest moments in the entire end

of the story here. It's like, you know, you know,

forget the GTO cars. I have something better.

It's time for an upgrade. And there's like a

crap ton of Batmobiles. Like all the souped up

ones and everything else. I thought this story

was so great. Like I said earlier, I think I

said it in this episode. I know I said it last

week. Between Nightwing New World Order and this,

these are my two favorite Batman stories from

the last two years, 2017 and 2018. Now, I know

both of them started in 2017, but the trades

came out this year. And I just absolutely love

them. Yeah, I enjoy the story a great deal, too.

I mean, Batman Creature of the Night is probably

my favorite Batman story over the last two years.

That hasn't been collected in trade yet because

it's not done. It's kind of different, though,

because that is legitimately a very different

Batman story because it exists in a world where

Batman is an actual comic character. My one issue

with this at the end was that I thought it kind

of let Batman off the hook a little too easily.

Yeah, it did. In the sense of, as DJ's been pointing

out, this is a Batman who's been very uncharacteristically

acting very dangerously, putting people in harm's

way, really just doing a lot of ridiculously

selfish things. by the end of it like it seems

like he's forgiven a little bit like too easily

like the justification of it it seems like it

just seemed like yeah we won everything is hunky

-dory but and i i did like the self -revelation

that he comes through at the end but i guess

like all those issues that were brought up are

still are still there and And that's where I

was hoping that we would get a little bit more

insight to why was he, you know, like, why was

he like this? Like, what brought him to, like,

what brought him to such a, so close to the breaking

point to begin with? I thought we would get a

moment like that. We don't. I do like the realization

he comes to. But I thought, like, everyone around

him, like Commissioner Gordon, especially, like,

you know, he's talking about how the city will

trust him again. But I feel like he should. I

thought based upon everything he saw, it seems

like he wouldn't even be asking that. I think

he would be like, okay, well, we've seen that

maybe this isn't the best route to go. Maybe

we need to... We've got to find a better way

than this. Yeah. So he's trying to bring him

back in. I'm like, why would you... You've seen

what he just... He almost killed so many people.

And we're just going to say... Including you.

Exactly. Including you, Gordon. Yeah. That was

my one thing where I felt like... It brought

up a lot of legitimate problems that Batman was

doing. And then it was like, OK, well, that's

not let's let's just. And again, there's more

to the story because there's going to be another

addition to it. So maybe it'll get into that.

But as a complete piece, just like I felt with

some of the characters around him, I did like

there were good moments like the reading of Alfred's

letter. That was pretty touching. But that was

like the one thing that was overall a great comic,

but it's not. I think not without issue here

and there. Exactly. And the two greatest things

about the final issue here, like I said, Nightwing

in the BTS Batmobile and you. So exactly. Oh,

hey, Clay. Exactly. How much do you remember?

Joker. He's coming after you. No shit. World's

greatest detective, huh? Like. Poor Clayface.

I felt so bad for Clayface in this whole story.

I was like, oh my god, he's alive. Can you imagine?

I'm spread out about 17 different people. I could

not know. I could not know. Not at all. And like

we said earlier, the whole kind of love story

between Jack and Harley and... And all of that.

I dig that. I think that's super cool. With the

ending and how it ends and, you know, the kind

of speech and things like that. He basically,

Jack, saves Harley, but it turns out that, you

know, Jack is actually alive as well. And we've

got Neo Joker, you know, chasing after Harley,

but she eventually gets hers at some point. Again,

like I said last week and this week, I think

this is Sean Murphy telling an original story,

something that he wants to basically show to

Batman fans that it doesn't have to be the traditional

Batman story, and you can still throw every single

Bat reference in it that you possibly can. Like

I said already, it basically turns into the end

of Batman and Robin with the freeze ray and then

the heat ray and the whatever, because you gotta...

You gotta freeze the city, now you gotta thaw

the city. It's like... I don't know. I really

dug this. I was not sure what to expect, and...

No, we're not getting a weird ending, folks.

Originally, I was gonna get this in single issue,

but by the time all eight issues were out, I'm

like, I'm sorry. I'd rather spend $13, $14 for

the trade on Comixology than $30 for all eight

issues. No thank you. So I'm like, I can wait

until October 9th of 2018. That's not a problem.

And I'm glad I did, actually, because the trade

is very cool. Like I mentioned earlier, each

issue has an opening image with one of the quotes

from said issue for all eight. It's very, very

cool. But yeah, I absolutely dug this. And like

Dan said earlier about Batman's little speech

at the end there was kind of nice. And the fact

that Joker and Harley almost have this happy

ending with the whole marriage thing and whatever.

You saw that as a happy ending? I saw that as

sad because it's like, oh, the man she loved

is seemingly gone now. I said almost happy ending.

Almost. Super tragic. Oh. Yeah. You know that

movie Titanic? They almost were really happy.

They were almost there. That door. That damn

door. So much room on that door. And like Dan

alluded to earlier about Alfred's letter, of

course Bruce isn't going to read that by himself.

Of course he's going to have Dick and Barbara

there. To do that. And. It's not often. That

Batman and Harley. Interact on a. Less psychotic

level. Because Harley's normally. You know super

crazy Harley. Here she really is. Dr. Harleen

Quinzel. At the end. And I thought it was such

a nice. Nice way to end the story. For now anyway.

I don't know. I really dug this. Like I said

before, I wasn't sure what to expect, but it

works. And it's kind of cool. Of course, you

have the... I really... What I wanted the very

end of this to be is I wanted Gordon and Batman

to have this conversation in a diner. on new

year's eve oh yeah you want to animate a series

exactly but but with this ending obviously just

you know set in a different place but basically

you know bat you know bruce pulls the mask off

and not in the diner okay so yeah but that diner

was pretty empty in that episode uh overall I

absolutely loved White Knight. I thought it was

a very interesting story. It was something that

normally comics that have five, six, seven issues

traded, it takes me maybe two and a half days

to read the whole thing. I read this in one day.

It was that damn good for me that I read it in

one day, almost all in one sitting. I think I

got up once to take a bathroom break. Any final

thoughts, Dan, on the story, on the art, on whatever

Sean's working on next for this? No, I mean,

the next one, I mean, the next installment's

going to be Batman Curse of the White Knight.

So, again, some of the issues that I had, like...

with how it ended could possibly be addressed

with the next installment. I mean, there's not

much, he's still, he's still drawing it. So there's

not much known. He did real as real. It's going

to be in it, which I'm being interested to see

because as real as on a character, I've never

really cared for. So it's, we'll see. I mean,

there's been, there's been people who. done the

character well, like James Tiddy and curling

with, or previously with detective comics. So

to see that interpretation of how that works.

Um, but yeah, no, I pretty much did everything

I needed to, or that I had to say. Yeah. And

I know as real as a big bat villain kind of thing,

but anytime I hear that name, I'm like, Oh, so

it's Brody from mall rats and dogma. Okay. Then,

um, DJ final thoughts. Uh, I. Maybe the next

series would be like things that Jack Napier

kind of put in place before he went back to being

the Joker. It's almost like a Purple Man situation

where he has like a thing that will happen if

somebody does this. So maybe it's called Curse

of the White Knight. That sounds like Napier

set up a whole bunch of stuff and maybe he's

not in control of it anymore. In terms of the

entire series, I'm not as huge a fan of these

two, but, I mean, there's things in it that I,

bits and pieces that I really, really like. Again,

the art is awesome. I like Harleen in there,

and I almost wish that it was more of her. She's

kind of, she gets more and more as it goes on,

but I kind of wish it was, like, centered around

her, too. like you've been saying that you wanted

to see a series with them those two together

i could see that i could read that series because

she's that's got that's a harleen i have not

seen a lot of and that's rare she's like even

more interesting when she's sane so yeah i i

i did dig that and um like i said the free stuff

and um my version of a evil batman is more of

uh james wood's owl man that's how i see evil

batman because that's the that's a danger batman

going crazy and i don't care about people that's

not dangerous batman that can be easily stopped

calculating i don't care james wood owl man that's

the scary batman that's the scary bad guy batman

and i'd love to see that type of bad guy batman

versus the joker because that that would be cool

but uh yeah Absolutely. Alright, on the GCRN

Universal Rating System scale, 0 -5, Dan, what

would you give White Knight? I'd give an art

10, and I would give the book an 8. Okay. Just

to clarify, the art's fantastic. It's obviously

the strength of the book, but overall, probably

an 8. What about you, DJ? Out of 10, art... 10

is 10, 10 and a half, 12. Yeah. It's very beautiful.

It's an 11. I mean, the guy can draw. He's really

good at story wise. I kind of, again, I'm, I'm

not too, the story kind of like dropped the ball

with terms of me in terms of what I was kind

of expecting. So I probably would, I'd be six

and a half, seven, but I mean, Again, there are

certain characterizations of certain characters

I really, really did like. So if you're a fan

of a Batman book, you probably have to check

this off your list. Whether I didn't like it

or you liked it or not, that's one of the books

you've got to read. Yeah, absolutely. I'm also

going to give it a 9 .5 or so. There was only

a few things that kind of had me questioning

stuff. Other than that, I absolutely love this.

Is it something I'll go back and read? I don't

know. Not right away, anyway. But I need to see

more Sean Murphy writing and art as well. I mean,

I knew of the guy, and I know he had done a bunch

of other stuff previously to this, but I want

to see more from this guy. If you want to see

more of the series, I would definitely recommend

would be Black Science that he does with Remender.

He did that. Tokyo Ghost is probably a little

bit easier since it's only 12 issues, but Black

Science is like, you know, it takes place. It's

kind of like, if you remember that show Sliders,

where it's like, it's not like that, but it's

because they go to different dimensions, but

it's a very... extensive story what's kind of

great about it too is that like it legitimately

changes genres depending on arcs like sometimes

because they're going a different world um but

it's been going that's i think it's on like near

40 issues so far um but yeah anything he does

with reminder tends to be really good absolutely

all right dan where can the people find you online

sir uh they can find me on twitter at movie revolt

what about you dj Trying to be DJV in our show,

The Simplistic Reviews Podcast. His Twitter handle

is at SimpleTweeters. I am at TFG1Mike. You can

follow at The Pullback on Twitter. Check us out

on Facebook. Obviously, geekcastradio .com. Coming

up next, I don't know. We have three choices.

We have three choices. It's going to be one of

these three things. I'm not sure which one. It's

either going to be WWE Volume 3 Roman Empire

from Boom Studios. Or we could do TMNT Ghostbusters

2 from IDW, or it might be the old Devin Grayson

Nightwing Huntress 4 -issue series. So those

are the choices for episode 333. Not sure which

one it's actually going to be. It's probably

going to depend on hosting, because whoever the

hell I can get to cover whatever the hell I'm

going to cover. Because I understand, it's the

end of the year, everybody's busy, but... The

fact that I took almost 30 minutes to review

the three DC Comics KFC Presents comics by myself.

I haven't done a solo show on this podcast in

five and a half years. The first time I did it

was episode one. And yeah, I don't know. So it's

just going to be a... grab bag folks here inside

the pull bag make your greatest game in the comics

and we will catch you next time you ready to

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