Batman Beyond Rebirth: The Long Payback Part 2

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You have just jumped inside the pull bag here

on the GeekCast Radio Network. This is episode

315, and I am TF2 and Mike. Joining me for Batman

Beyond Rebirth, as always, JT from Saskatoon.

Hello, sir. Howdy -doo. We are here to wrap up

the long payback. This is our second part covering

the next three issues of this six -issue arc

of Batman Beyond Rebirth written by Dan Jergens,

art by... I don't even remember off the top of

my head. Phil Hester, I should have known that.

I should have known that. Sorry, Phil. Yeah,

Jergens and Hester on art. Now, what I love about

issues 17 and 18... wish I could get my my art

capable friends to do this I think they I think

Neil might have for me there is a two -part cover

here an alternate cover in issue 17 and 18 the

the faces cover mm -hmm with Batman I assume

that's Bruce or is that Alfred ah it's basically

Batman an old man and a bat on one side and then

on the other side is Batman I think 10 and something

else, or somebody else. But basically, it's one

of those combining covers things. And I wish

I had that as a full image. That would be super

cool. That variant cover was done by somebody

I'll find out here in a little bit. So yeah,

once again, decades from now. We just love decades

from now, don't we, JT? Yep. Yeah, buddy. Yep.

we start decades from now and uh... uh... kenny's

dad uh... what's his name well payback but i

forget what it was uh... payback who was the

kid who was payback his father is the one that

was in the suit if you guys don't remember from

last week he's watching his monitors of the fight

with stalker and batman uh... basically says

uh... He basically goes through and says where

is the honesty in that it allows you to move

from one wreckage that you leave in your wake

the tragedies you never have to account for until

now and Damn, do I not love damn if I don't love

this this this page here after that where you

have the Terry and Matt I almost said Terry and

Tim they're not Bruce and Matt Jesus. I'm losing

it folks And then you have Terry and stalker.

Oh, man. That page is gorgeous Yeah, well, I

mean the first thing I want to mention is like

the the stock cover where Matt and Bruce are

looking at this screen of you know stalker unmasking

Terry kind of I find it very reminiscent of One

of my favorite episodes of the Batman particularly

Gotham's greatest criminal mastermind where they

have like who is Batman with this question mark

on the silhouette and the countdown like it kind

of reminds me of that and I love that uh it's

a cliche but it's a villain cliche I love it's

like soon you will come to know how much I despise

you Batman yeah you know just like that whole

dialogue and it's gonna by the end of it folks

we'll get to it but I mean by the end of it it

just feels so good when the villain's taken down

like this you know and then we get back into

it Phil Hester's art like when he gets a double

page spread like this where you see you have

like the main image of stalker like you know

throttling Terry he's gonna rip the mask off

and you see you know Matt and Bruce looking on

and Dana and Barb and Ken yeah watching on and

you know Hmm one of these three ladies is gonna

make a comment about Bruce and child protective

services by the end of this story Call me naive,

but I think it's gonna be Dana But I do I do

like the whole Like you see like how mad stalkers

kind of been driven by everything like from his

original defeat by Terry to like you know the

robot apocalypse and Him being Darth Vader of

the Batman universe now And he's like, you know,

a true hunter kills the hunted, but not until

he gets close enough to look his prey in the

eye and be acknowledged as master. And then Terry's

like, I love that. But what happens to the hunter

when the prey bites back? And we get another

awesome Phil Hester electro shot full page. Yeah.

And I like how we made the effort to like with

the light going off and you see like the shadows

play across like the Terry's musculature with

the costume and all that. But you also see like

specifically on the bat symbol how it's been

like pot got pock marks and dings on on it yeah

and and it just looks like you don't even have

to feel but you just tell that's painful as hell

for stalker oh yeah absolutely well plus you

know stalker is not just a human hunter anymore

he's not just craving he's partly metal and partly

real now so you know he's a silverhawk stalker

Dave Johnson was the one that did the the variant

cover for this issue and for the next issue I

believe so Anyone can find me Dave Johnson on

Twitter or someone that I could ask a question

of this cover if it's actually you know This

this two panel cover thing because I want that

as one image because that would just be super

Anyway, sorry looks pretty good. Yeah, it does

So Batman obviously puts his mask back on Bruce

gets a call from Dana and she proceeds to bitch

him out. He's like, the Batcave has a phone?

No, the manor does. I do like that Bruce tries

to get out of the chair. Again. Yeah. And like,

I realize that Dana hasn't been on The Secret

for that long, but she's... Being awfully judgmental

Okay, yeah, you know in terms of like it's like

yeah, he Says the man like you know, it's like

Terry has what it takes prevailing and she's

like says the man who's broken so many of his

own bones and you set Terry up for this life

you owe it to him and I was like Okay, could

you be less professionally outraged for Terry

and more? Supportive somehow. I don't know Like

what I would and I know this kid well, okay So

do we know exactly has it ever been said and

I think it has so I'm basically answering and

asking my own question at the same time here

Has it ever been expressly said in the cartoon

or in other comics? How old Matt is supposed

to be if Terry is still a teenager or almost

college age Well, I think at this point in the

timeline. He's 1920 because he was about 16 I'd

say he would almost be 21 because I think he

was about 16 years old in the animated series.

Matt was? Or Terry? Terry. And I think Matt was

about... He was about 8 or 10 in the animated

series, so here he would be 13, 14 maybe? Yeah,

like very Golden Age Dick Grayson sort of age.

The reason why I ask this is because I wish this

story... somehow someway I wish this whole arc

at this point right now because of what Dana

is saying I wish this was not this version of

Dana I wish it was epilogue Terry and Dana where

Terry is in his 30s and 40s and Dana understands

and their event you know that they've gotten

married or they're this or they're like basically

Make Terry older. Yes, Matt could still be Robin

or he could find you know, whatever But like

this whole child this whole thing that I don't

like this Dana right now. I don't at all This

is the first time I have not liked Dana tan in

almost 20 years at this point because holy shit,

dude Next year is 20 years of Batman Beyond.

Oh, yeah. Oh my god I can't wait to see what

they do for that. But yeah, so Dana's bitched

Bruce out and he tries to get out of the chair

and Matt's like, sit your ass down old man. And

you see him, like you think Terry's in trouble

that he really needs help. And Bruce isn't willing

to admit like still that he can't do this anymore.

Because you see he's like, no, I'm just tired

of sitting in this damn chair. You know matt's

like, you know, if terry really doesn't know

where is it going to come from and you see him

like look at The the case with damien's robinson

Gee, that's not foreshadowing at all. Yeah, no,

and then we get you know league of shadows 10

Although if you've ever heard of the there's

an italian comic book called dia diabolic and

I've seen the movie the her suit kind of reminds

me of diabolic suit Just look up danger diabolic

on the Wikipedia folks and you know educate yourselves

there. It's take too long here Her suit is very

reminiscent of that design, but yeah, it's ten

and she's like hmm Help Terry don't help Terry

Okay help Terry and you can see that you know

clearly she's Probably not in the best mental

space because she's got what looks like a couple

of pictures of Terry tacked up on her Her her,

you know closet door there something Maybe she's

just in love with him, but you know can't be

with him Who knows this could turn into an interesting

storyline down the road But we get back to stalker

and Terry going at it and you can see like they're

both they're not pulling punches anymore. I mean

Terry's straight up shredding his face with his

talons. Stocker's trying to electrocute him with

his quarterstaff there. Hits a buck and a quarter

quarterstaff. And I love the shot of Terry. He's

got like a fistful of bat darts or mini batarangs

that he throws them in like he impales Stocker

in the chest. It's just like that's for Terry

that's particularly brutal You know, like I know

he's in the fight of his life here But even for

Terry who's fought, you know slightly more dangerous

villains before that's still pretty hardcore

And and I love the line from stalker he's like

Normally, I reserve this for the armored vehicles

that poachers use. It would seem a case of overkill

for a man. Boom, boom, boom. And I'm just, wow,

like you honestly don't care anymore, do you,

stalker? And, you know, as we come basically

to the midway point of the story, we get the

arrival of the true big bad here in that payback

is back. For back pay in payback. Okay, I'll

stop But I do again Phil Hester's like on point

with these Like full page, you know shots like

this because that is badass the way payback comes

in with his electro whip and stalker turned his

quarterstaff into a trident and he's about to

skewer terry is only a borderline psychopathic

cyborg hunter can And then the villains go to

war with each other. Of course. And I love, like,

the look, the bloody look on Stalker's face.

You were the one who paid me? Mm -hmm. I know.

Like, what did you think of that entrance? The

entrance of Payback? Oh, I loved it. I thought

it was great. Because, basically, he's like,

you're not gonna be the one to kill Batman. I

am. It's the standard villain thing, but... you

know this guy is i guess tired of people who

are defying him yeah that and the fact that that

one of my it's one of the more annoying annoying

villain tropes in mode like comics media Movies

all that when the the main villain steps up.

You've disappointed me for the last times Starscream

now aside from Megatron Whenever a villain has

said that it's usually after their employees

have softened up the hero To the point they're

like, okay, I'm gonna step in here but I'm not

totally not gonna pay them that bonus because

fuck that and He's just being like this whiny

little punk. He's like, you didn't do exactly

what I said. Eh, you're not getting your pay.

Eh. And it's like, wah, wah, wah, you're a villain.

Like, what did you expect was going to happen,

numb nuts? Yeah, really. But, you know, we got

that, you know, they go. I think it's just kind

of like, damn, dude, that's cool when Payback

like uses his electro whip to slice stalker's

legs off. oh yeah and he's just like damn you

and then Batman and then he's just hanging out

you know chill in middle of the fire watching

the fight he's like why is payback here yeah

really well it's kind of in the name isn't it

mm -hmm I So then ten arrives to save the day

and that's great and all and I love Melanie And

I love ten, but I love the old ten suit. I love

Phil Hester's art, but I wish they would have

used the classic This this thing just doesn't

look Right at all like the face mask of it doesn't

look right the body suit of it does Just well,

it's like The redesign it's not bad. But yeah,

I'm with you. I enjoy the classic playing card

aesthetic They had in the original suit. I mean

you got like this stylized tenon or thigh with

like an upside -down heart Yeah, that's fine.

My main problem with this now that I'm looking

through it again through these pages is Basically,

it's a cross between Iron Man mark one when he

was in the cave and Man the iron mask the iron

mask from man the iron mask that the whole face

thing just doesn't it's much more armored yeah

feeling than before although I do like just before

Ken comes in I do like the the recap of who payback

is like Matt's like who's this payback guy and

Bruce is like yes exposition for me to do you

know because he lays it out and you know it it

succinctly sums up one of the more emotionally

powerful episodes of Batman Beyond which I don't

think a lot of people recognize that there are

a lot especially like I was just out of high

school when Batman Beyond came out but still

close enough that a lot of the stuff that Terry

dealt with and other characters, they still felt

that very, very strongly. So, and that was always

like a really powerful episode. It's like this

kid who just wanted attention from his dad went

nuts cuckoo and became a super villain, which,

you know, either fall into some toxic waste or

you fall into a pile of technology. I mean, either

way, it's not going to end well. No. but then

yeah then we get the and the nice recap for Melanie

as well yeah and and I love Matt he's like you

know she's actually been trying to reform herself

partly to do the right thing partly because she

has a crush on your brother and Matt's like huh

a lady crook with a crush on Batman go figure

and I know Bruce is like he's not actively giving

Matt the eyeball and he's like I wonder what

Selena's up to nowadays no he he he so is giving

terry the eyeball or matt the eyeball because

that was the first thing i'm like uh... okay

that's a good good screen cap uh... you know

and i i posted on the pullback facebook page

i'm like yup that's definitely worth it oh yeah

but you know we get back into it in you know

what are you doing here look around bats it's

not like you have this catastrophe under control

And I could see if this was an animated one of

the episodes I could just see Terry doing like

that purse lips and like Why you kind of stare

that he's known for? and then payback grabs her

drops a thermal detonator and Blows up the remains

of the already blown up building And it's just

again like I said last episode like how they

end these issues with these great cliffhangers

like this like then there's this great image

of Stalker and Terry going ass -over tea kettle

from like 50 stories up Yep, or maybe 120 stories.

I forget how tall the buildings were in neo Gotham.

They're very tall I mean Dana said she lived

on the hundred and thirty fifth story or something

or other so very very tall Yeah, I love this

issue. I love what Juergens is doing with it

Loving Phil Hester's art. It's all really really

amazing Juergens I know we said last week that

you weren't that thrilled with the Tim Drake

story from 2015 series but Juergens since he's

had the book since it was no longer Kyle Higgins

anymore because Kyle specifically told stories

that were basically DC animated universe continuity.

This is basically, this series and the series

that Juergens has done before this is basically

birthing out of Future's End. And I love what

they're doing because they're telling, like I

said last week, they're telling new and compelling

stories, they're advertising, they're arranging

and putting certain characters more in the front

lines than just keeping them in the background.

Like the fact that Matt is eventually going to

be the new Robin like uh hello like we can see

that you know throughout this whole arc at this

point up to issue 17 um it's just it's so fun

and just seeing where they wear jergens brings

in the classic bat beyond villains i don't know

even though this is time travel and yada yada

yada and whatever Don't know if they're ever

gonna bring ink in I don't know how they could

because supposedly she's dead but you know Deaths

and comics mean nothing at least at this point

unless you're you know a box of rice Well, yeah,

I mean like ink if she is dead you could always

like fanfiction away To turn what's his knob

from that episode of the animated series. We

have that guard or a caregiver who was like,

because he's already halfway to being ink already.

He's the blob. Yeah, I would rather have them

turn her daughter into an ink or something than

have them turn that guy into a male version of

ink. Well, they've had female clay faces, and

ink was kind of the analog to clay face. in the

future and all that and as like you said this

this first day of this this issue in particular

is the whole art really but this issue is like

a perfect of sequel to the original payback episode

absolutely is now so issue eighteen uh... front

cover for first cover is basically mat you know

in case of emergency break glass and he's gonna

Basically take, you know, Mjolnir to the Robin

suit costume in the cave there. It's a bat Mjolnir.

Branding is important, after all. But yeah, he's

breaking open. Clearly, we get it, DC. He's going

to be the new Robin, like, dully. You know, but

then again, kids who aren't probably, you know,

have just been reading this series. I mean, and...

you know what you're saying before about the

timeline being wonky I mean this spun out of

futures in but then you have how presumably dr.

Manhattan has been futzing with the timeline

and there's the missing like 11 years that Wally

West has said in the DC rebirth yeah one shot

like the DC look you know if Marvel has a sliding

time scale then DC has an ever swirling pool

You know, it's always changing. But that being

said, you know, I and we have that other half

of the cover you're talking from last issue.

Yeah. And I love again, like you said, I love

how they always start decades from now. Yes,

we get it. It's the future. You know, I say it

like that every time I see that decades from

now, I hear that a line from the first episode

of Future Rum. Welcome to the world of tomorrow.

Shut up, Terry. Yep. But yeah, you know, why

did you interfere? Who are you? An ally of Batman's

friend? Perhaps something more? And again, Juergen's

villain dialogue is on point, man. It is. Yeah,

it is. It's one of those things you just eat

it up with a spoon. So good. And I love that.

But all I care about is that Batman comes for

you. And when he does, he dies. But for that

to happen... He has to survive the next few seconds.

Mine is an evil laugh. Okay, he didn't really

say that, but I think it would have been appropriate

if he did. But I like that Terry's falling. He's

out cold. Stalker apparently has like a cybernetic

load jack in his cyber arm that he grabs like

Ten's card and or maybe it's his car and he grabs

Terry and he saves him because he might be half

crazy, but he's still an honorable sob yep and

then we get back to payback and he's basically

like you know now how nice to see gotham burn

these people are finally getting what they deserve

how can you think that these people are dead

people are dying so the panel before it expands

into his side in the payback side of it this

specific panel this is what i'm talking about

with her suit yes i like how part of the playing

card thing is there and that's great the heart

on her on her shoulder there whatever else with

the 10 but the rest of it looks like a tony stark

knockoff it's horrible i don't think it's so

much a tony stark knockoff but it's got this

overly armored feel like not uh new 52 Armored

Batman and Armored Green Lantern sort of look

that Jim Lee did initially, but it's kind of

like How I talked about Justice League Doom in

the last episode with Jack having the laser eye

Ten's overall suit look like it's segmented and

it looks more reminiscent of the ace that they

had in that movie Yeah, you know like there's

it's not bad, but it there's it's it would look

better if there wasn't so many lines giving us

This armored look yeah because in that panel

that I'm talking about where she's saying people

are dying We only see the white haze it's you

know her gimmick has always been black and white

half you know down the middle and On the way

on the right side is all the white stuff, and

it's like hmm Here's you know the rib eye. Here's

the this here's the that it's like they're marking

off sections of meat on her body and I don't

like this the only thing about Phil Hester's

art I do not like is the 10 suit because the

black side of it looks fine it looks smooth it

looks this it looks that it does not look like

it has the armored segmented sections at least

from what I can tell they ever show that side

fully but yeah that's really my only complaint

about the art is her suit is just god -awful

Yeah, I do like you know payback does the cool

villain thing where you just you know Backhands

are over his shoulder like that You know Batman

must see what happens you you have no right to

kill innocent people and like again villain dialogue

on point with this Infernal rotting hell ho did

to a young innocent boy gives me the right You

know, it's it's that sort of pompous villains

speak that, you know, when reality comes crashing

down, you know, so good. And I like that Matt's

like, the news cut away to this. Payback teleported

one of their cameras in. He wants Terry to know.

And I like that, you know, we've got the Jetson

firefighters at work here. And then Terry saves

them and I like how one of the firefighters is

like sway timing Yeah, like let me divert my

notice from this 15 alarm fire here in a way

of it the superhero saving my friends You know,

and I like how Terry was Okay, so Kenny was Was

he as young as Matt in the show or maybe a couple

you know Kenny was a young kid He was maybe if

Matt was between eight and ten in the show Kenny

was maybe between six and nine Like you I don't

think more or less the same age as Matt or less.

Yes, but he was younger than Sorry, no, it's

just yeah, I'm just saying like more or less

with any minus plus or minus a couple years so

if You know, Payback, if he thinks Kenny is this

old, maybe 1920, well then he would be older

than Matt, but point is, you know, Batman gets

teleported away by Payback into a futuristic

version of the Water Trap from Harry Houdini's

act, and you know, he seals his suit, and then,

you know, Payback starts pumping dubstep into

the tank. That evil bastard. And then, you know,

he eventually starts cracking the glass and he's

like, puts like lasers in or something. And,

and again, Matt and Bruce cause they're playing

like armchair superheroes here, you know, wondering

how did Kenny grew up to be such a psycho? And

Bruce is like, you know, we're missing a piece

of the puzzle here. And you know, Terry gets

out and then he gets electro whipped to death

almost. And, and again, like you see like the,

how painful and like the the energy arcing like

fire off and you see like that pained look on

the silhouette of his face and it's like what

do you want payback boom and i was like ah he

said the thing i i mean when i read that the

first time i read through this i was like captain

america and the avengers i understood that reference

yep but you know payback for one what did you

know and bruce you know goes back in, does research.

We see that Kenny was tortured in the rehab center

and then we find out that Kenny's dad left him

there and Kenny took the only way out that he

felt was available to him and took his own life

and that's just even for even for like compared

to like say barbara gordon getting gutshot in

the killing joke this is like the other darkest

moment in batman history see i always thought

and this is just me people can go back to our

killing joke both the movie episode and um the

comic episode i always thought joker did more

to her than just shoot her it's i love the fact

in that story like i don't Love love, but I know

what you're you know I love the fact that they

leave it like purposely vague like and the horror

is built up in our own minds did Mm -hmm. Did

the Joker let his rubber chicken loose or didn't

take you? You know, yeah, it's just like But

and just the look that Phil Hester gave Bruce

there when he the realization you see Bruce physics

like mentally break a little bit and it's just

like Holy shit. And there is that great reveal

where it's like, you killed my son. And Terry's

like, what the hell? You don't even see him.

He puts the hood back on. Because I mean, most

films at this point would just be ranting and

raving and like hitting the switch. And he pulls

out all these wily coyote looking ass guns that

pop out and just start annihilating Batman. because

i didn't even notice that he got glue cuffs on

his hands and then he's getting shot with like

a laser of some type yep and then we go back

to the cave and bruce is like this is too much

for terry to handle i have to i have to be helpless

and and terry not terry matt's like maybe you

are but i'm not Those old vids of you training

Damien, I've watched them all, I've done the

same drills over and over and over again. You

can't go out like that, you'll be recognized.

Not a problem. Not one of the stuff you have

here, Smash. Bruce is like, hmph. Like seriously,

at this point in... Batman's history the Batcave

is kind of like those hero creators that they

had in games like champions online and city of

heroes where you literally spend the better part

of your day tweaking aspects and costume designs

to come out like the greatest original costume

ever and Then you see like 15 other guys that

have done the same thing you've done You know

that I've played those games, but I like how

yes you have don't lie yeah i like how he takes

you know the mask the belt a hoodie you know

terry's getting like beat and matt's of course

fun well if you got a hover batmobile you got

a hover redbird yeah you call that although redbird

was a car for tim yeah and he's like you do what

i say and he's like i'm ready and this will be

the ultimate in schway and i was like Could have

done better on that costume design there, guys.

You know? Well, the costume will get better.

That's just the temper. I don't think that's

the final costume. This is like Matt's Proto

Robin suit here is the paper bag and Fantastic

Four Union suit costume that Peter Parker's worn

a couple of times in the comics. It's like, it

works. It doesn't work that well. But we end

it with this like You know, Gotham's on fire,

we see Wayne Manor, a silhouette of Bruce, like,

looking on like, oh, hey. And I like how they

did it instead of the dynamic duo. Next issue,

the duo dynamic. Now, while there is some, like,

I have print copies of this, so there's some

that I want to mention, but I'm going to save

that till we wrap up here. So what do you think

of this second issue of these three here? I think

it's good. I don't think it's such a middle issue

of it of the three issues of the four, five,

and six like issue two was of this arc. Like,

with issue 15 that, you know, issue 14, 15, and

16, those all tied together is almost one story.

I do like this. It's basically transitioning

into having Matt become Robin. We finally get

the reveal of the villain, obviously. At least...

the one villain in the story, because obviously

the Joker's still out there somewhere. Yeah,

just fighting his time. Yeah. Old Uncle Joker.

Mm hmm. But I love how the the cover. I like

that image of Matt, you know, like the proverbial

bat out of hell. Although initially when I saw

this cover, I also thought of, you know, the

nightwing cycle coming through the museum doors

and Batman and Robin. So but I do like the cover

like, you know payback, you know, he's got his

whip and he's throttling Terry The secondary

cover isn't as awesome as the first two folks.

It's just Terry flying through the night and

seeing like a Come to metropolis. Yes Superman's

like just smiling you almost hear that from his

deed Yeah, the only thing about this cover that

I want a larger version of is the 80 years of

Superman logo that's in the bottom right hand

corner. Oh yeah. Of that cover. Now, we should

mention, and I think you did just mention this,

but I was more so reading the wedding invitation

than listening to you sadly. It's got a nightwing

keychain on the table there, because the wedding

stuff is addressed to Dick Grayson, so that's

hilarious. Yeah. And I love those issues The

the whole lead -up to the bat wedding But I haven't

even I need to get into that I've Intentionally

stayed away from it because I'm not jumping on

Batman at the wedding now I'll I'll start at

Tom King's first issue at some point. Yeah I've

got most of from the beginning of rebirth. I've

got most of Batman and detective and It's been

pretty solid not perfect, but solid but you know

we get to of course decades from now and Dana

busting into the Batcave and Terry's in trouble

awful trouble. Yeah, no shit. I Mean at this

point this guy has fought a kid who telekinetically

Controlled a giant fucking robot a shape -changing

liquid -based assassin and man who is literally

a walking radioactive meltdown Mm -hmm. This

is awful. No, this is level two, honey Compared

to the shit Terry's dealt with. Yeah, this is

nothing. Yeah, so she goes in and paid back We'll

kill him. I know Dana. What are you gonna do

about it? Call the police the Justice League

not exactly then she sees Matt he's like I'm

almost there. Mr. Wayne should I attack and Wayne

just goes back into it and she's like you sent

a boy. Have you lost your mind and he's like

that's absurd there must have been something

you could have done and he's literally like what

else could he have done besides call Barbara

who's already tied up making sure the rest of

the city doesn't burn to a cinder now I realize

she has a very valid argument but she does but

she's going about it the wrong way well it's

just like you know after you see you get a shot

of Terry being tortured and Matt's there and

Bruce directs them to you know to knock out the

power supply and save Terry and then eventually

see Dana sit down is like you're using a child

like this sick and it's like honey do you know

anything about the history you have to know the

history of Batman in general in Gotham do you

know up until you were personally involved in

the story you probably didn't give two shits

about what happened to those kids other than

You know the most like when you see the help

sick and starving kids in Africa with you know

world aid or something like that You know, but

her, you know bitching complaining about this

not that she doesn't have a valid argument like

I said mounts right up there to people like movie

blob on YouTube who've you know parroted the

idea that Bruce Wayne is Ultimately at fault

for all the bad things in Gotham and Batman's

not needed and he could have you know put all

his money that he's put into his back tech and

just like, you know, he's been doing that from

the beginning and fighting crime as Batman. It's

not his fault. He's tried to mitigate the symptoms,

you assholes. But back to the story. Matt knocks

out the power, saves Terry. Payback's trying

to activate the backup power and he's like, cuffs,

get them off. I've always wondered if that that

of all the technologies seen in Batman like glue

cuffs like that I wonder if you could even have

that sort of technology for real Like you know

like a non -lethal option for police Maybe especially

in the future, especially this future. So who

knows but I like that, you know the he gets the

backup power on He starts torturing Terry again,

Matt finally knocks out the generator, and they

try to take on Payback together. They try to,

yes. But I love how he's like, you should have

mentioned dying on my invitation, Gray. I would

have worn my formal attire. I was like, even

in the midst of, you know, possible death, Terry's

still a sarcastic badass. Of course he is. And

I do like that you can't possibly and again Phil

Hester's art on point I love the the look the

menacing look of Terry you know he's got his

talents popped and he's bearing down on payback

but the panel before with the You know the bat

symbol being projected from Terry's chest presumably.

It's kind of like those classic Like from like

John Romita senior and the artist in like the

mid 60s early 70s when you get like the spider

Light on a criminal. Yeah, it's just like that

And he bears on they go to it again. He's going

to kill himself like he takes his broken Electro

whip and like shows it into his arc reactor It's

what it looks like folks, it's not actually an

arc reactor I'm sure DC's not ripping off Iron

Man even though both companies have done that

time and again So yeah, we we get payback basically,

um, he's gonna return to sender he's gonna kamikaze

this Yeah, he's gonna try but But I do like that

Terry's like whoo -hoo the gold star for preparation

goes to you. Fortunately. I get the platinum

and he's Payback hardly, you know, it's you know

a for effort on that one. Terry just he didn't

quite stick the landing Yeah. And then Matt's

like, you know, screw it, I'm going in. And here's

data. And he's like, this is what you wanted

all along, isn't it? Another young acolyte to

be dragged into this obsession of yours is like,

OK, you're concerned for a kid. I get it. But

is this really the time to be bitching out somebody

when he's obviously trying to help these guys,

you know, not die? Mm hmm. Also, she's getting

way up in the high horse when she drags out words

like acolyte and obsession. And then, you know,

child protective services and yada, yada, yada

and all that. Oh, I guarantee you. I'm putting

it out there. Dana is going to be involved with

Target Batman because she should probably march

right up to Barbara Gordon with CPS and she's

willing. She's going to drop a dime on Bruce

Wayne. I'm putting money on it now. She's going

to narc on Bruce Wayne. Hmm, maybe but so they

they get into it again Batman and payback Ken

gets into it a bit, you know payback starts electro

choking her and then You know in a scene reminiscent

of the 1980s flash Gordon film here I come to

save the day and Matt crashes his bike directly

on top of payback Although Terry's okay Terry

understandably pissed and complete within his

right to be Terry Dana didn't encourage him I

mean Bruce didn't encourage him as Tina Dana

is clearly trying to do here like I stand by

it she's gonna narc on Bruce Wayne guaranteed

she's Don't like her stance in this that's the

out of all the careily Everyone always says that

Max Gibson max is the most annoying character

at this point No right now Dana is the most annoying

character. I understand like you said where she's

coming from but see here's the thing I came from

being a child of a ward of the state so you know

this is why I'm like Lady lay off. They're not

doing anything like This is Matt's choice. Matt

wants to help. Matt at this point is old enough

to be able to make his own choice to help. What

I love about the end of this issue is we basically

bring it full circle around with with Stalker

and Tony Stark. I mean, turn him against us.

I'm sorry. Like I said, as of this recording,

I just read Tony Stark Iron Man number one. So

written by Dan Slott. And Terry showing up in

the village in his black pants, black shirt,

white, gray shirt and sunglasses. I'm like, hey,

it's Tony Stark with Wayne Industries or Wayne

Enterprises or whatever they're calling the company

these days. Yeah. But yeah, so Terry is eventually

returning the favor to Stalker. I giggled and

I feel bad for giggling a bit when you see Stalker

on two pig legs. Yeah. Oh, I felt bad. But that

whole thing where you see how mad, you know,

payback is after the loss of his son. Like he,

he just can't. Like this is how narcissistic

and emotionally distant this man is. Like you

abandoned your son. You are responsible. Like

he can't, he's projecting because he can't deal

with his own guilt. Yeah, like yeah, no shit

you're pissed but be pissed at the right guy

asshole and you know They they cut his power

conduits. It blows up. He's disabled and being

left for the police but again Dana like Terry

has every right to be pissed at Bruce You know,

they could have called the Justice League the

Justice League probably would have gotten there

about three seconds after Terry's head was popped

off his shoulders Yeah, really, you know Superman's

fast, but You know, he ain't that fast well depending

on what continuity but you know Terry's pissed

they go back to Bruce and Dana just has this

look at like there shouldn't you've gotten away

with it this time old man Someone should have

reported what are you gonna like handcuff Matt

to a post or something woman? Yeah, really, you

know again And we and we get into this in the

first couple issues of target Batman where you

know Terry's like WTF Bruce Yeah You know You

brought a young impressionable younger sibling

into this world of superheroes and supervillains

with cool tech and they're fighting bad guys

and it seems like a grand adventure and Obviously,

that's where Matt's coming from. But you know,

like I said Terry might be slightly for this

like he understands Where Matt's coming from

and he does his best to deal with it here. Like

I said Dana is gonna call the cops guaranteed

But yeah, like you said we ended with Terry,

you know, we're doing what's right and Then he's

like, you know, let's see what we can do about

those legs and you know He understands where

stalkers coming from that's one of the best endings

to a Batman Beyond arc yet is you know Juergens

gets it like in this future after everything

that's happened you know Batman does what's right

yep absolutely so the the one thing I said before

like the uh through these issues and some of

the first three we talked about folks there are

ads at the end of these issues for uh the new

age of heroes that's coming out through DC currently

like post dark nights They're bringing stuff

like The Silencer, the new Challenger's title

has just started, The Immortal Men, which is

drawn, I don't think written, but drawn by Jim

Lee. And some of this stuff is like, I love it

when Marvel and DC have these initiatives where

they try and bring back new versions of new things,

new characters. It showed that creativity isn't

dead in the medium like I may have thought at

one time. And I don't... mine the ads like this

it they used to annoy me but well here's the

thing like okay so what what you're talking about

here is basically the previews of these new things

and they're giving you like a two or three page

preview that to me is a preview it's not an actual

they are advertising but it's not a like if you

picked up Batman Beyond 17 actually any of the

long payback arc issue 14 to 19 you picked up

any of those six issues and you're gonna get

two pages of story and an ad. Two pages of story

and an ad page. That's what I love about digital

comics is whatever ads are in books, they're

at the end of the books. They don't break up

the story like physical issues do. And I understand

why physical issues do that. I get that. Don't

get me wrong, I do. But I've been reading digital

for so long now. I feel like The plague from

hackers you hard copy yeah, well teach their

own like I've seen Online like Justin Ecock,

you know, mr. Ecock from this week and geek and

terrible warriors talking about how he's getting

rid of a lot of his physical media because You

know at some point it stops being a collection

and you become a hoarder and I agree with that

like But I've always enjoyed the physical copies

more than anything. But yeah, like, the Immortal

Men's pretty cool. Like, there's Damage, which

is a retread of the Damage character from, like,

post -Crisis DC when he was part of, like, new

Teen Titans and then Titans and all that. New

Challengers. The Terrifix, which is basically

DC's stab at a proper, fantastic four -like team.

Like, I've read a few of these folks. I highly

recommend them. But yeah. Overall this arc in

and of itself Individual issues I've been given

five out of fives overall I'm given that the

arc itself about a four out of five or four and

a half out of five because there's Really? The

only thing that I disliked is yes, it just they

make Dana into such a friggin harpy. Yep like

I understand you're outraged and incensed and

as well you should be because young boy dangerous

situation I don't discount that it's just I would

be very like I said I'd be very surprised if

she doesn't call the cops and then and she'll

probably like try and keep it so she doesn't

have to reveal Terry's Batman and then just gets

really awkward and she looks like a crazy person.

very much so uh uh overall i'll give the whole

arc a four and a half or four actually i'll probably

give it a four because i did not like the whole

dana thing and i'm sorry phil i understand this

was your style and all that but i'm so ten suit

is just bad in my mind like the other version

of ten that was done by somebody else in you

know the kyle higgins run That reminded me of

animated series 10. That was like, ooh Hello,

you know this Not so much. She was sexier in

her League of Shadows or League of Assassins

or whatever Outfit than she is in the 10 suit

at this point So yeah, four and a half four four

to five for me four and a half out of five for

you for this long payback I'm still Thoroughly

engrossed in Batman Beyond Rebirth from Dan Jurgens

I don't think it's issue 20, but I do know issue

21 We get the return is it issue 22 No, it's

issue. Okay, so issue 20 of Batman Beyond Rebirth

starts target Batman issue 21 is part 2 but it

kicks off with One of if not at the time the

new 52 my favorite Nightwing artist at the time

Will Conrad is gonna be on Batman Beyond Rebirth

from issue 21 to I don't know when as soon as

I saw it was him I like immediately tweeted in

my message. I didn't message him on Facebook,

but I tweeted at him I Commented on some of the

stuff he'd done on Facebook. I'm like how long

you gonna be around here cuz I'm really digging

this So target Batman next arc for Batman Beyond

don't know how long it's gonna be how many issues

but I can't wait because I think they're finally

gonna bring Scarecrow into the Batman Beyond

universe Yeah, and I always felt like spellbinder

was again like bring in a proper, you know future

version of Scarecrow But I always felt spellbinder

like he is extensive. He is an update of a silver

age bat villain uh he was also eventually used

in the batman right very extreme remake but i

was kind of felt like they were going for kind

of a scarecrow thing with spellbinder and beyond

being like the psychologist and all that yeah

they were but several things in the batman beyond

issues for issue 20 and 21 have led me to believe

it's either Spellbinder or maybe a proper scarecrow

or something because and this isn't just scarecrow

but just the way they've said it in the way that

things are manifesting in the target Batman story

they've used the term fear several times Spellbinder

was never about fear he was all yes you're right

he is the amalgam of like he's he's the he's

the He's the copy of the Scarecrow type character.

However it's also He was more of you know distract

and, you know, misdirection, whereas Scarecrow

himself is just pure on fear. So, who knows,

maybe it's Scarecrow's son, Scarecrow's daughter,

I don't know, they had Joker's daughter back

in the New 52, so who the hell knows what the

hell's gonna happen. But I'm very excited about

Target Batman for the next story arc for Batman

Beyond. I don't know when JT and I will be getting

to that, because as I said earlier and as I've

said throughout the episode, I don't know how

many issues that's gonna be. What have you got

coming up on whatever you're doing? Well, I'm

gonna hopefully record tonight a new episode

of the Comic Conisters with Ben Carver and Red

Ink. You know, we record that every so often

because life has continually gotten in the way

of light. And so you can find me there. You can

find me on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at

GT from Saskatoon. You can find me on Twitter

at TF2 at Mike as far as what the pull bag is

coming up folks well We're going Autobot Lee

after next week because next week We're hitting

the mat we're entering that squared circle with

boom studios WWE volume one and Ryan the alien

flow Merkley will be joining me for that It'll

be a pull bag mayhem Mike's crossover where we're

going to discuss the first volume of Boom Studio's

WWE comic. After that, in August, it'll be Autobotly

August, where myself, Lady Rek, Beatles Diva,

Haji Prime, Steve Megatron, and a bunch of Ryan,

Ryan and Flo Merkley will be with us for all

Transformers coverage. Steve and I are also celebrating

10 years of all things Transformers with The

Pull Bag, episode 319. Autobot Liagas, Transformers

vs. G .I. Joe Volume 1. So that's going on. That's

the IDW series, Transformers vs. G .I. Joe Volume

1. So there's that. Yeah, we got a lot going

on here inside the pullback. So, make your greatest

game in the comics and we will catch you next

time. Not now. Great. What did they used to call

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